View Full Version : Since when did non-interventionism become anti-semitism
bobbyw24
01-01-2010, 09:28 AM
Republican Congressman Ron Paul, Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, and actor Ben Stein recently had a debate on Larry King's show on CNN about the situation in Yemen. Ironically the strongest debate was between to two Republicans, Ron Paul and Ben Stein who vehemently disagree about interventionism in the middle east.
SNIP
Out of no where Stein calls Paul an anti-semite even though Paul did not say anything about Jews or Israel. Stein said "no, we're not occupiers. That's the same anti-Semitic argument we've heard." Perhaps it was a Freudian slip, since Stein is a strong supporter of Israel and he feels that Israel would become vulnerable if America were to withdraw from the Mideast. The tactic of calling someone an anti-Semite who criticizes Israel has long been used but Ron Paul did not even call Israel occupiers but said that America was.
Latter on in an article Ben Stein stated that he "said this because in his long experience, those who talk about the U.S. "occupying" Moslem lands soon go to criticism of the U.S. for helping Israel -- a line long associated with Rep. Paul, as I understand, and again, maybe I am misinformed -- and then to biting criticism of Israel and then to bitter comments about Jews generally." He went on to say "that if Rep. Paul says he is not taking that line, and is not an anti-Semite, I believe him, good for him and I am happy to know him.
Ron Paul believes in non-interventionism and taking the founders advice of avoiding entangling alliances but many supporters of Israel feel that American interventionism in the Middle East is benefiting Israel. They are not willing to admit this so they try to associate those who support non-interventionism with being anti-Israel or anti-Jewish. However Stein bassically admited that he feels that the non-interventionist position leads to anti-semitism. Ron Paul is right that our interventionist foreign policy in the middle east is the main motivator for terrorism and Bin Laden even admited himself that he wants to see America bogged down in the middle east.
http://www.examiner.com/x-9462-LA-Nonpartisan-Examiner~y2009m12d31-since-when-did-noninterventionism-become-antisemitism
Endgame
01-01-2010, 11:06 AM
When Israel hijacked our government, popular religious leaders, and media.
cheapseats
01-01-2010, 11:57 AM
Non-interventionism became anti-semitism shortly after criticizing Barack Hussein Obama became Racism.
The TRUTH is that the Libertarian Moovement DOES harbor some Racists and Anti-Semites.
So does the Democratic Party. So does the Republican party. Difference is, THEY hurl the label and Libertarians hop on the defensive.
Start today, New Year's Day, look at Yourself in the mirror, screw up Your courage and say...
STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT ME.
Racists and Anti-Semites can sit back and watch the fireworks.
catdd
01-01-2010, 02:02 PM
As soon as pro Israel support realized it meant no more of our blood, guns, and money.
lester1/2jr
01-01-2010, 02:41 PM
"Perhaps it was a Freudian slip, since Stein is a strong supporter of Israel and he feels that Israel would become vulnerable if America were to withdraw from the Mideast."
Dunedain
01-01-2010, 03:01 PM
Anti-semitism = Anything Jews don't like
It's hard to wrap your head around, so in a nutshell: An anti-semite is someone that Jews don't like. Not the other way around. You can LOVE Jews and be an anti-semite...just ask Jimmy Carter. If the Jewish elite don't like you, for any reason, you are an anti-semite. And Anti-semitism is anything that Jews don't like. Obviously, non-interventionism is anti-semitic because the Jewish elite love making war-war on the enemies of Israel.
Using this definition of anti-semitism you can see why:
- Supporting Palestinians is anti-semitic
- Ron Paul is anti-semitic
- Criticizing the Jewish elite is anti-semitic
- Jimmy Carter is anti-semitic
- The New Testament is anti-semitic
- Many truths are anti-Semitic
- unity is anti-semitic (opposite of diversity)
- non-interventionism is anti-semitic
- this site is anti-semitic
- YOU are (most likely) anti-semitic
CountryboyRonPaul
01-01-2010, 03:15 PM
Don't we hold Israel back from attacking Palestine?
Wouldn't non-interventionism be pro-Israel?
Liberty Star
01-01-2010, 03:17 PM
We should be careful before advocationg totally non-interveniost FP. I'm not fan of Israeli occupatioin of Palestinians but it will be hard for us to support their fragile occupation if we suddenly adopted non-interventionist foreign policy. Because of biblical prophecy situation, such a non-interventionist policy would also be anti-prophecy and would not be supported by our religious extremists also.
YumYum
01-01-2010, 03:21 PM
Anti-semitism = Anything Jews don't like
It's hard to wrap your head around, so in a nutshell: An anti-semite is someone that Jews don't like. Not the other way around. You can LOVE Jews and be an anti-semite...just ask Jimmy Carter. If the Jewish elite don't like you, for any reason, you are an anti-semite. And Anti-semitism is anything that Jews don't like. Obviously, non-interventionism is anti-semitic because the Jewish elite love making war-war on the enemies of Israel.
Using this definition of anti-semitism you can see why:
- Supporting Palestinians is anti-semitic
- Ron Paul is anti-semitic
- Criticizing the Jewish elite is anti-semitic
- Jimmy Carter is anti-semitic
- The New Testament is anti-semitic
- Many truths are anti-Semitic
- unity is anti-semitic (opposite of diversity)
- non-interventionism is anti-semitic
- this site is anti-semitic
- YOU are (most likely) anti-semitic
I am Jewish and I don't approve of Israel's actions. I do not trust any government, including the Israeli government. I feel that the Israeli government is creating more anti-Semitism from its course of action and its treatment of the Palestinian people. Land is more important than lives. I disagree. Am I anti-Semitic? Am I a "self-hating" Jew?
The Jews that I know love this country, but they, just like the Goyim, are misled. Should I hate Democrats because they are misled? Or should I try to help them to see the light? What I cannot stand, and I will not tolerate, is the belief that all Jewish people are part of some massive conspiracy to hurt people and to take over the world. Zionists? Yes. I believe there is a connection, but American Jews have no fucking clue about anything. They attach themselves to Israel because that is the thing to do. I was there once, and Ron Paul opened my eyes to the fact that if we lose our freedoms, we will all go into the concentration camps. Jews are more lost about reality than many of you on this forum. You should pity them and help them, not criticize them.
catdd
01-01-2010, 03:27 PM
"Don't we hold Israel back from attacking Palestine?"
Isn't that already getting involved in entangling alliances and sticking our nose in the affairs of other sovereign nations?
Isn't that an act of being the world's policemen?
Liberty Star
01-01-2010, 03:31 PM
"Don't we hold Israel back from attacking Palestine?"
Isn't that already getting involved in entangling alliances and sticking our nose in the affairs of other sovereign nations?
It is.
U.S. House backs resolution to condemn Goldstone Gaza report ...
The U.S. House of Representatives on Tuesday condemned a UN report that accuses Israeli forces and Palestinian militants of committing war crimes in Gaza early this year as irredeemably biased and unworthy of further consideration or legitimacy.
With a 344-36 vote, the House passed a nonbinding resolution that urged President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton to oppose unequivocally any endorsement of the report. Twenty-two representatives voted present.
The report, commissioned by the UN Human Rights Council, accuses both Israel and the Palestinian Hamas group of war crimes but presents Israel's actions as much more serious.
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1125593.html
US Senate supports Israel's Gaza incursion | Reuters
Jan 8, 2009 ... "When we pass this resolution, the United States Senate will ... Palestinians faced even grimmer conditions in Gaza on Thursday after a U.N. ...
When we pass this resolution, the United States Senate will strengthen our historic bond with the state of Israel, by reaffirming Israel's inalienable right to defend against attacks from Gaza, as well as our support for the Israeli-Palestinian peace process," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, said before the vote.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN08534236
Goldstone himself is a Jewish Judge from South Africa with expertise in apartheid issues. No one is suggesting here that many in our Congress are racists, they probably don't know how not to get bought by foreign interest lobbies.
Dunedain
01-01-2010, 03:37 PM
I am Jewish and I don't approve of Israel's actions. I do not trust any government, including the Israeli government. I feel that the Israeli government is creating more anti-Semitism from its course of action and its treatment of the Palestinian people. Land is more important than lives. I disagree. Am I anti-Semitic? Am I a "self-hating" Jew?
Personally, I would not call you that any of those names...although you know what they say. Our own Jews will destroy us. You know what happens to Jews if they don't toe the party line. If the majority of Jews thought like you, Israel would cease to exist. Blind faith to world Jewish leadership (JWC / Bni Brith) and the myriad of other pro-Israel groups are what keeps Israel afloat.
The Jews that I know love this country, but they, just like the Goyim, are misled. Should I hate Democrats because they are misled? Or should I try to help them to see the light? What I cannot stand, and I will not tolerate, is the belief that all Jewish people are part of some massive conspiracy to hurt people and to take over the world. Zionists? Yes. I believe there is a connection, but American Jews have no fucking clue about anything. They attach themselves to Israel because that is the thing to do. I was there once, and Ron Paul opened my eyes to the fact that if we lose our freedoms, we will all go into the concentration camps. Jews are more lost about reality than many of you on this forum. You should pity them and help them, not criticize them.
Jews have too much to gain from the current state of things to be motivated to change anything. Everything is going great for the American Jewish community. They are a privileged group with no equal in america. Everything is going great for Israel. Israel sits a top a world power structure. Jews are overrepresented in every facet of the power structure we are facing...media, banking, government. Why would the average Jew in the street protest? Now, there are heroic Jews that buck the trend (like yourself), or Norman Finkelstein but we can't wait for the Kosher Kavalry to ride out and save us....they aren't coming. Why would the Jewish community rise up against the a system that favors them? It's just so much easier to delude yourself into thinking that Israel is the land of the chosen and anyone who thinks otherwise is an anti-semite.
lester1/2jr
01-01-2010, 03:46 PM
I don't think america not supporting israel or, more realisticly, genuine israeli rapproachment with their niehgbors would be the end of israel, I think it would be the begining. they have basically been a european state in the middle of the middle east for the last 60 years.
as israelis are fond of saying, there has always been a jewish presence there. somehow, before the un created israel, those people survived and got along to some extent with the other people who lived there.
In south africa it hasn't been easy but they are doing it.
I guess its easy for me to say it in america, but I believe without the governmetn hoolding things up our country would still function and in mos cases function better. our arming israel to the teeth has helped them alot in the short term but I don't think it has in the long term.
the orginal zionists envisioned themselves as being a part of that neigborhood, as bringing really a crucial element of modernization and so forth to an area that needed it. They haven't done that. they haven't created any sort of interdependence that them leaving the place would be anything but a cause of celebration for their neighbors.
ChaosControl
01-01-2010, 03:48 PM
When Israel hijacked our government, popular religious leaders, and media.
Since people who advocated non-interventionism were often stating things like the above and others took it the wrong way.
lester1/2jr
01-01-2010, 03:53 PM
choascontrol- sure, but at the same time, this is OUR security we are talking about here. it's no time to be the nice guys. if we are going to not talk abuot what we NEED to talk about regarding our foreignp olicy because it might hurt some peoples feelings we are not really the land of the brave anymore are we?
ChaosControl
01-01-2010, 04:16 PM
choascontrol- sure, but at the same time, this is OUR security we are talking about here. it's no time to be the nice guys. if we are going to not talk abuot what we NEED to talk about regarding our foreignp olicy because it might hurt some peoples feelings we are not really the land of the brave anymore are we?
I never said we should stop talking against interventionism, I merely answered the question.
johnrocks
01-01-2010, 04:20 PM
People who call us anti semetic for our views on non intervention remind me of the liberals who say the same about those who may oppose affirmative action and insinuate that they are racist, I swear, those two groups should get a room and go fuck themselves!
YumYum
01-01-2010, 04:52 PM
Personally, I would not call you that any of those names...although you know what they say. Our own Jews will destroy us. You know what happens to Jews if they don't toe the party line. If the majority of Jews thought like you, Israel would cease to exist. Blind faith to world Jewish leadership (JWC / Bni Brith) and the myriad of other pro-Israel groups are what keeps Israel afloat.
Jews have too much to gain from the current state of things to be motivated to change anything. Everything is going great for the American Jewish community. They are a privileged group with no equal in america. Everything is going great for Israel. Israel sits a top a world power structure. Jews are overrepresented in every facet of the power structure we are facing...media, banking, government. Why would the average Jew in the street protest? Now, there are heroic Jews that buck the trend (like yourself), or Norman Finkelstein but we can't wait for the Kosher Kavalry to ride out and save us....they aren't coming. Why would the Jewish community rise up against the a system that favors them? It's just so much easier to delude yourself into thinking that Israel is the land of the chosen and anyone who thinks otherwise is an anti-semite.
You are wrong! If Jews have more to gain, and don't want change, then tell that to all the Jews who got fucked by Madoff. The problem with you is that you have never been around Jews, and you know nothing about Jews. You have never been there when they grieve over human sufferage, including the Palestinians. Jews are quick to donate to charities, not because of some guilt trip, but because they do care about people and they worry to death about the condition of our world. Do you hate Jews? Please tell me, and I will gladly leave this forum.
Dunedain
01-01-2010, 06:06 PM
You are wrong! If Jews have more to gain, and don't want change, then tell that to all the Jews who got fucked by Madoff. The problem with you is that you have never been around Jews, and you know nothing about Jews. You have never been there when they grieve over human sufferage, including the Palestinians. Jews are quick to donate to charities, not because of some guilt trip, but because they do care about people and they worry to death about the condition of our world. Do you hate Jews? Please tell me, and I will gladly leave this forum.
You will leave this forum if I tell you I don't like Jews? That's your commitment to liberty? Come on, rethink what you just said. I hope you don't mean that. Only a fool fights in a burning house.
YumYum
01-01-2010, 07:00 PM
You will leave this forum if I tell you I don't like Jews? That's your commitment to liberty? Come on, rethink what you just said. I hope you don't mean that. Only a fool fights in a burning house.
Stick with the issues.
Liberty Star
01-01-2010, 07:23 PM
You will leave this forum if I tell you I don't like Jews? That's your commitment to liberty?
Having read your posts I know you don't believe in collectivism but the way you're wording your opinion can suggest that you see all people of a religion, race, tribe, ethnicity etc as same, I'm sure you already know that collectivism goes against the idea of individual liberty and that there are all sorts of varied people within any group, be it "jews", "christians", "muslims", "whites", "blacks" and so on.
Then we got a special breed of moderate libertarians like these:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1139332.html
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