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View Full Version : Terrorists Execute Children (Is it time to leave???)




rpfan2008
12-31-2009, 08:44 AM
Western troops accused of executing 10 Afghan civilians, including children



American-led troops were accused yesterday of dragging innocent children from their beds and shooting them during a night raid that left ten people dead.

Afghan government investigators said that eight schoolchildren were killed, all but one of them from the same family. Locals said that some victims were handcuffed before being killed.

Western military sources said that the dead were all part of an Afghan terrorist cell responsible for manufacturing improvised explosive devices (IEDs), which have claimed the lives of countless soldiers and civilians.

“This was a joint operation that was conducted against an IED cell that Afghan and US officials had been developing information against for some time,” said a senior Nato insider. But he admitted that “the facts about what actually went down are in dispute”.

Source>>> (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6971638.ece)



Feel free to comment on the story...

LittleLightShining
12-31-2009, 08:47 AM
Oh my God... :(

Bruno
12-31-2009, 08:48 AM
"The allegations of civilian casualties led to protests in Kabul and Jalalabad, with children as young as 10 chanting “Death to America” and demanding that foreign forces should leave Afghanistan at once."

we have been successful in creating yet another generation that wants to attack us for our actions (i.e. blowback, not "they want to kill us for our freedom")

catdd
12-31-2009, 09:15 AM
"The allegations of civilian casualties led to protests in Kabul and Jalalabad, with children as young as 10 chanting “Death to America” and demanding that foreign forces should leave Afghanistan at once."

we have been successful in creating yet another generation that wants to attack us for our actions (i.e. blowback, not "they want to kill us for our freedom")


Yeah, if this is true, there's probably nothing we can do now to lessen their hatred.

TheEvilDetector
12-31-2009, 01:03 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00665/Kabul_665838a.jpg

Don't these people understand that US is spreading democracy, freedom, stability and peace?

Epic
12-31-2009, 01:23 PM
this should really help things...

but don't you guys understand, the Afghans hate us because we are FREE (and so the best strategy we can take is to fight them, and make us less free at home with civil liberties violations, and then maybe they won't attack anymore because we aren't very free....)!

Dreamofunity
12-31-2009, 02:00 PM
...handcuffed before being killed.

Sick.

Annihilia
12-31-2009, 02:01 PM
Fucking ruthless :(

silverhandorder
12-31-2009, 02:08 PM
This can't possibly be true.

MelissaWV
12-31-2009, 02:08 PM
I notice the released statement doesn't deny the methods, but insead merely offers up a justification. Those kids COULD, IN THEORY, be involved in helping manufacture explosive devices. Let's take it as a given, just for the sake of argument. In fact, let's decide that these 8 kids manufacture every single IED that's injuring soldiers and citizens alike.

Now, here's the trouble: it's still not right.

You *do not* drag people out of bed, handcuff them, then shoot them. It doesn't matter how bad they are, you don't have the authority to simply execute them. It's in our own rulebooks.

Now, if you don't have the authority to execute Saddam Hussein on sight (and, you'll notice, we didn't), why on earth would these children be considered such an immediate threat that they needed to be handcuffed and killed?

This is depressing.

MelissaWV
12-31-2009, 02:09 PM
This can't possibly be true.

I'm hoping the same thing. Hoping, but I won't hold my breath. :mad:

Anti Federalist
12-31-2009, 02:15 PM
I am not going to say it...

I am not going to do it...

I am going to remain calm...

FFS...

RM918
12-31-2009, 02:17 PM
So this is what waging peace looks like, huh? We certainly waged peace all over those kids.

If it IS true, it will be buried.

Anti Federalist
12-31-2009, 02:18 PM
I notice the released statement doesn't deny the methods, but insead merely offers up a justification. Those kids COULD, IN THEORY, be involved in helping manufacture explosive devices. Let's take it as a given, just for the sake of argument. In fact, let's decide that these 8 kids manufacture every single IED that's injuring soldiers and citizens alike.

Now, here's the trouble: it's still not right.

You *do not* drag people out of bed, handcuff them, then shoot them. It doesn't matter how bad they are, you don't have the authority to simply execute them. It's in our own rulebooks.

Now, if you don't have the authority to execute Saddam Hussein on sight (and, you'll notice, we didn't), why on earth would these children be considered such an immediate threat that they needed to be handcuffed and killed?

This is depressing.

It was a mafia hit.

They got a few of "our" guys the other day.

We go in and whack a few of "their" guys today. And if a few kids got in the way, well, tough shit for them, they shouldn't have been there, right?

Depressing is right...felt like I got punched in the gut.

speciallyblend
12-31-2009, 02:18 PM
Obama/Cheney 2012, Bring our Troops Home;)

Stary Hickory
12-31-2009, 02:21 PM
Well for all the accusations, the story better be true.

speciallyblend
12-31-2009, 02:21 PM
So this is what waging peace looks like, huh? We certainly waged peace all over those kids.

If it IS true, it will be buried.

they should revoke obamas peace prize,but at the sametime it is not like the gop has a dam thing they can say about any of this, they(gop-warmongering policies) would of just shot the kids before dragging them from the beds..

RyanRSheets
12-31-2009, 02:22 PM
Does everyone else see the ironic parallels in this?

Fort Hood: A Muslim kills 13 American soldiers. Americans react by reasserting that Islam is the religion of evil.

Afghanistan: American-led troops yank 8 children, 2 adults out of their beds, cuff them, and execute them. Afghans react by asking America to leave, and some will probably take up arms.

Incidents like this really destroy my faith in humanity.

Kylie
12-31-2009, 02:46 PM
This is fucking insane. What would we do if UN forces decided to come into our homes in the middle of the night and kill our children?

There has to be more to this story. There just has to be, cause I can't wrap my brain around this. Our boys would not have killed children unless they were being attacked....Jesus Christ this is fucked up.

LibertyWorker
12-31-2009, 02:48 PM
Terrorism is a tactic we’ve been using the Middle East for at least 60 years along with assassinations overthrowing elected governments supporting brutal dictators giving them chemical weapons that are used on their own people and their enemies.

And then people sit back in shock that they would fight back ………how dare they.

if this is true that we are back to using Vietnam style tactics of burning and killing whole villages to terrorize people then i think we need to start a fund to help the Afghanistan rebels.

Hell ill get on plane go over there and help them make IED's and and chop off some heads.

Chaohinon
12-31-2009, 02:49 PM
I love the american double standard

Muslims committing heinous acts of murder = evil

Americans committing heinous acts of murder = war is hell, collateral damage, some bad soldiers slip through the cracks, they're stressed, etc.

rpfan2008
12-31-2009, 02:50 PM
^ Go to this page and see the reasons provided by the 'instigators' why these things are right.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-thomson/drone-porn-the-newest-you_b_407083.html

Original_Intent
12-31-2009, 03:01 PM
Gee maybe the U.S. govt IS "the great Satan".

This blows - I am so sick of this crap.

ItsTime
12-31-2009, 03:06 PM
Happy New Year

CCTelander
12-31-2009, 03:07 PM
War, with all its attendant attrocities, is just the logical extension of politics and the state.

RM918
12-31-2009, 03:24 PM
^ Go to this page and see the reasons provided by the 'instigators' why these things are right.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-thomson/drone-porn-the-newest-you_b_407083.html

Don't know why I read comment threads when all they do is depress me.

BlackTerrel
12-31-2009, 04:49 PM
I know quite a few people over there. I really hope this is not true.


Does everyone else see the ironic parallels in this?

Fort Hood: A Muslim kills 13 American soldiers. Americans react by reasserting that Islam is the religion of evil.

Afghanistan: American-led troops yank 8 children, 2 adults out of their beds, cuff them, and execute them. Afghans react by asking America to leave, and some will probably take up arms.

Incidents like this really destroy my faith in humanity.

I don't buy that Americans said Islam is the religion of evil based on Ft. Hood.

MN Patriot
12-31-2009, 05:53 PM
American-led troops were accused yesterday of dragging innocent children from their beds and shooting them during a night raid that left ten people dead

It is amusing to me how many of you take these allegations at face value. None of us know what the facts are. I find it hard to believe that our soldiers would do such a thing. The Afghans are probably tired of having to fight and kill Americans (because we are killing them by a margin of 100 to 1), and want to fight and kill somebody else. So they accuse the Americans of killing children.

Who knows what tribe hostilities are present there. Perhaps one tribe killed the children of another tribe and blamed it on the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation

Anti Federalist
12-31-2009, 06:05 PM
I find it hard to believe that our soldiers would do such a thing.

Vietnam
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/june2006/my_lai.jpg

Waco
http://devsamaeldaval.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/waco-dead-child.jpg

Kent State
http://timmermansblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kent_state_massacre.jpg

Need I go on?

Sure, the facts are not out, so maybe what you said did happen.

But don't come off as this not being possible.

It is very possible and has happened in the past many times.

MN Patriot
12-31-2009, 06:28 PM
It is very possible and has happened in the past many times.

So then how do we shut down the war machine? Cut off their funding. End the income tax. The liberal commies in the Democrat and Republican parties will never do that.

There isn't enough talk about ending the income tax in these forums. That should be the #1 priority in the liberty movement.

Money is power, government keeps getting more and more of our power.

Anti Federalist
01-01-2010, 10:25 AM
So then how do we shut down the war machine? Cut off their funding. End the income tax. The liberal commies in the Democrat and Republican parties will never do that.

There isn't enough talk about ending the income tax in these forums. That should be the #1 priority in the liberty movement.

Money is power, government keeps getting more and more of our power.

I'm hip, you won't get an argument from me.

Many will say, and there's some truth in this, that ending the fed is a de facto way to eliminate the income tax, once it becomes clear that is all the income tax is for, is to feed the fed and the war machine.

I all in favor of nullification, separation and secession as well.

I want a divorce.

Lovecraftian4Paul
01-01-2010, 01:42 PM
The article is a bit unclear about one thing: is it US troops who did this, or the Afghan army? Either way, inexcusable, especially since the latter group was completely set up and trained by our military.

fj45lvr
01-01-2010, 02:33 PM
I gotta say that we pretty much know who the real enemy of our freedom and prosperity is (hint: not afghanis)

So when you correctly focus on the real and active domestic enemies that control the nation you really should begin to see that maybe the Muhajadeen really fit the addage an enemy of your enemy is your friend.....maybe we will occupy the same fox hole in the future against the evil empire. No???

Liberty Star
01-01-2010, 03:39 PM
Terrorists Execute Children (Is it time to leave???)

If we left, how would be spread freedom and diversity there?
That would be going against what Obama is trying to do.

RyanRSheets
01-04-2010, 07:36 AM
I don't buy that Americans said Islam is the religion of evil based on Ft. Hood.

After Fort Hood, that was practically all I heard!

Todd
01-04-2010, 08:08 AM
It is amusing to me how many of you take these allegations at face value. None of us know what the facts are. I find it hard to believe that our soldiers would do such a thing. The Afghans are probably tired of having to fight and kill Americans (because we are killing them by a margin of 100 to 1), and want to fight and kill somebody else. So they accuse the Americans of killing children.

Who knows what tribe hostilities are present there. Perhaps one tribe killed the children of another tribe and blamed it on the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation

Perhaps.....

Have you seen "Taxi to the Dark Side"? (http://www.taxitothedarkside.com/taxi/)There is no reason to believe that American's are less prone to commit these type acts simply because they are American soldiers.
I've been in the military for 21 years and seen some pretty stupid people who, if put in the right situations, would probably do some pretty stupid things.
Things get very complicated in war


YouTube - "Taxi To The Dark Side" - Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX0MPcN08Zc)

Son of Liberty 2
01-04-2010, 09:58 AM
That is very sad. Yes, it is time to leave Afghanistan.

Trimbeaux
01-04-2010, 10:30 AM
Some US soldiers have been doing this for a long time. Just look at the history of our occupation and war in the Philippines. Wow this sounds familiar.

:(

War crimes
[edit] American atrocities
General Jacob H. Smith's infamous order "KILL EVERY ONE OVER TEN" was the caption in the New York Journal cartoon on May 5, 1902. The Old Glory draped an American shield on which a vulture replaced the bald eagle. The bottom caption exclaimed, "Criminals Because They Were Born Ten Years Before We Took the Philippines". Published in the New York Journal-American, May 5, 1902.

In 1908 Manuel Arellano Remondo, in General Geography of the Philippine Islands, wrote: “The population decreased due to the wars, in the five-year period from 1895 to 1900, since, at the start of the first insurrection, the population was estimated at 9,000,000, and at present (1908), the inhabitants of the Archipelago do not exceed 8,000,000 in number.”[70]

United States attacks into the countryside often included scorched earth campaigns where entire villages were burned and destroyed, torture (water cure) and the concentration of civilians into “protected zones” (concentration camps).[citation needed] Many of the civilian casualties resulted from disease and famine.

In an article, We Charge Genocide: A Brief History of US in the Philippines, appearing in the December, 2005 issue of Political Affairs, E. San Juan, Jr., director of the Philippines Cultural Studies Center, Connecticut, argued that during the Philippine–American War (1899-1902) and pacification campaign (1902-1913), the operations launched by the U.S. against the Filipinos, an integral part of its pacification program, which claimed the lives 1.4 million Filipinos, constituted genocide.[71]

In November 1901, the Manila correspondent of the Philadelphia Ledger reported:"The present war is no bloodless, opera bouffe engagement; our men have been relentless, have killed to exterminate men, women, children, prisoners and captives, active insurgents and suspected people from lads of ten up, the idea prevailing that the Filipino as such was little better than a dog...."[72]
[edit] American soldiers' letters and response

From almost the beginning of the war, soldiers wrote home describing the atrocities committed against Filipinos, soldiers and civilians alike. Increasingly, such personal letters, or portions of them, reached a national audience as anti-imperialist editors across the nation reproduced them.[73]

Once these accounts became popular press fodder, the War Department became involved and demanded that General Otis investigate their authenticity. Each press clipping was forwarded to the original writer’s commanding officer, who would then convince or force the soldier to write a retraction of the original statements.[74]

Private Charles Brenner of the Kansas regiment resisted such pressure.[citation needed] He insisted that Colonel Funston[75] had ordered that all prisoners be shot and that Major Metcalf and Captain Bishop enforced these orders. Otis was obliged to order the Northern Luzon sector commander, General MacArthur, to look into the charge. Brenner confronted MacArthur’s aide with a corroborating witness, Private Putman, who confessed to shooting two prisoners after Bishop or Metcalf ordered, “Kill them! Damn it, Kill them!” MacArthur sent his aide’s report on to Otis with no comment. Otis ordered Brenner court-martialed “for writing and conniving at the publication of an article which... contains willful falsehoods concerning himself and a false charge against Captain Bishop.” The judge advocate in Manila convinced Otis that such a trial could open a Pandora’s box because “facts would develop implicating many others.”

General Otis sent the Brenner case to Washington writing: “After mature deliberation, I doubt the wisdom of court-martial in this case, as it would give the insurgent authorities a knowledge of what was taking place and they would assert positively that our troops had practiced inhumanities, whether the charge should be proven or not, as they would use it as an excuse to defend their own barbarities; and it is not thought that his charge is very grievous under the circumstances then existing, as it was very early in the war, and the patience of our men was under great strain.”[76]

Towards the end of 1899 General Otis attempted to repair his battered image. He began to work to win new friends among the journalists in Manila and bestowed favors on any journalist who gave him favorable press.[77]
[edit] Concentration camps

As one historian, Andrew J. Birtle, wrote about Marinduque, the first island with concentration camps:

“The triple press of concentration (camps), devastation, and harassment led Abad (the Marinduque commander) ...to request a truce to negotiate surrender terms... The Army pacified Marinduque not by winning the allegiance of the people, but by imposing coercive measures to control their behavior and separate them from the insurgents in the field. Ultimately, military and security measures proved to be the (essential element) of Philippine pacification.”[78]

And look what the occupation caused
[edit] Filipino atrocities

U.S. Army General Otis stated that Filipino insurgents tortured American prisoners in “fiendish fashion”. According to Otis, many were buried alive, or were placed up to their necks in anthills. Others had their genitals removed and stuffed into their mouths, and were then executed by suffocation or bleeding to death. It was also stated that some prisoners were deliberately infected with leprosy before being released to spread the disease among their comrades. Spanish priests were horribly mutilated before their congregations, and natives who refused to support Emilio Aguinaldo were slaughtered by the thousands. American newspaper headlines announced the “Murder and Rapine” by the “Fiendish Filipinos.”[79] General “Fighting Joe” Wheeler insisted that it was the Filipinos who had mutilated their own dead, murdered women and children, and burned down villages, solely to discredit American soldiers.[80]

Other events dubbed atrocities included those attributed by the Americans to General Vicente Lukban, allegedly the Filipino commander who masterminded the Balangiga massacre in Samar province, a surprise Filipino attack that killed almost fifty American soldiers. Media reports stated that many of the bodies were mutilated.[81] The attack itself triggered American reprisals in Samar, ordered by General Jacob Hurd Smith, who reportedly ordered his men to kill everyone over ten years old. To his credit, Major Littleton Waller countermanded it to his own men. Nevertheless, some of his men "undoubtedly" carried out atrocities.[77] Smith was court-martialed for this order and found guilty in 1902, which ended his career in the U.S. army.[82] Waller was found guilty of killing eleven Filipino guides.[82]

Sergeant Hallock testified in the Lodge Committee that natives were given the water cure, “...in order to secure information of the murder of Private O'Herne of Company I, who had been not only killed, but roasted and otherwise tortured before death ensued.”[83]

On the Filipino side, information regarding atrocities comes from the eyewitnesses and the participants themselves. In his History of the Filipino People Teodoro Agoncillo writes that the Filipino troops could match and even exceed the Americans' penchant for brutality regarding prisoners of war. Kicking, slapping, and spitting at faces were common. In some cases, ears and noses were cut off and salt applied to the wounds. In other cases, captives were buried alive. These atrocities occurred regardless of Aguinaldo's orders and circulars concerning the good treatment of prisoners.[84]

Worcester recounts two specific Filipino atrocities as follows:

"A detachment, marching through Leyte, found an American who had disappeared a short time before crucified, head down. His abdominal wall had been carefully opened so that his intestines might hang down in his face.

Another American prisoner, found on the same trip, had been buried in the ground with only his head projecting. His mouth had been propped open with a stick, a trail of sugar laid to it through the forest, and a handful thrown into it.

Millions of ants had done the rest."[85]

I wish we could bring our troops home.......