Hot Air.Com Ron Paul on airline plot: “They’re terrorists because we’re occupiers"

[purplechoe]

h ttp://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/29/ron-paul-on-the-airline-plot-theyre-terrorists-because-were-occupiers/


Ron Paul on the airline plot: “They’re terrorists because we’re occupiers!”
posted at 10:00 pm on December 29, 2009 by Allahpundit
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I’ve already written about how his isolationist garbage leads inexorably to nonsense like this, so let me just add two points. First, and most obviously, there is no U.S. occupation of Yemen or Nigeria. The only way the airline plot is a reaction to U.S. “occupation” is if you accept the jihadist premise that there are no Arab/Muslim nation-states but rather only one Islamic caliphate waiting to be born. Only in that way does the U.S. occupation of Iraq warrant a reprisal from, say, a Pakistani or Yemeni. And yet, needless to say, if Britain was attacked tomorrow and Obama pledged U.S. forces to assist in the reprisal, Paul would be the first guy to scream that we should scrupulously observe national boundaries and not go fighting another country’s battles for it.

Second, as usual, his facts are wrong. He uncritically accepts Abdulmutallab’s assertion that the bomb plot was retaliation for the U.S. airstrike on jihadi camps in Yemen. Not so: As Jake Tapper explained yesterday, this turd had already been mobilized and had even bought his Northwest ticket before we struck. Purely and simply, America’s Greatest Patriot is parroting propaganda cooked up by jihadist pieces of sh*t because it happens to fit his insane foreign policy agenda. Support him and his disciples at your peril.

YouTube - Hot Air.Com LOSERS Go After Ron Paul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKla1Vn5B9k)

[purplechoe]

http://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/27bf/Picture_1.jpg

http://maaadddog.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/armed_michelle_malkin.jpg

[ibaghdadi]

First, and most obviously, there is no U.S. occupation of Yemen or Nigeria. The only way the airline plot is a reaction to U.S. “occupation” is if you accept the jihadist premise that there are no Arab/Muslim nation-states but rather only one Islamic caliphate waiting to be born. Only in that way does the U.S. occupation of Iraq warrant a reprisal from, say, a Pakistani or Yemeni.

That is exactly and literally the premise of all Islamists (militant or not). Most Muslims across the board would more or less agree or at least sympathize with this statement. From a purely religious point of view, this is a canonical item of faith - the unity of blood of all Muslims everywhere.

Neocon-wannabes better accept it.


Iyad

[purplechoe]

The comments are brilliant, it's like a pack of chickens with their heads cut off running around in circles...



It’s a shame that someone who speaks so strongly to younger voters about the concepts of limited government and the strength of the free market can still be so idiotic on foreign policy. I can put up with his isolationism but this moral relativism is going too far.

Caiwyn on December 29, 2009 at 10:03 PM


Of course our enemies blame us for their hatred of us. They blame us for everything because they can’t take responsibility for themselves.

No matter what we do, they’ll blame us. They hate us.

JohnJ on December 29, 2009 at 10:04 PM


This is why he can never get traction on anything…He is sort of an idiot savant…he is really good on the Constitution and money and is an idiot on all issues offshore.

JIMV on December 29, 2009 at 10:05 PM



Ugh. I can’t stand Ron Paul. God help us if the GOP ever went the way of isolationism.

terryannonline on December 29, 2009 at 10:09 PM


It’s a shame that someone who speaks so strongly to younger voters about the concepts of limited government and the strength of the free market can still be so idiotic on foreign policy. I can put up with his isolationism but this moral relativism is going too far.

Caiwyn on December 29, 2009 at 10:03 PM

Unfortunately, for too many of those younger voters the greater attraction is his idiotic foreign policy.

aikidoka on December 29, 2009 at 10:10 PM



Occupier of Nigeria? I totally didn’t hear about that.

Or is he blaming the JOOOOOOOSSSSSS for living in Israel? Ugh.

mjk on December 29, 2009 at 10:13 PM

[RM918]

The comments are brilliant, it's like a pack of chickens with their heads cut off running around in circles...

It's comment threads like that completely lacking in independent thought that depresses me, and the fact that this is, actually, the MAJORITY line of thought of most Americans that makes me sort of glad they'll get what's coming to them, even if they take the rest of the country with them for their ignorance.

The distinction also needs to be made that Paul isn't against the wars and the attacks because he thinks the terrorists are justified, he's against them because they're NOT WORKING and are, in fact, the greatest reason why the terrorists are getting even stronger! The only thing they're doing effectively is trashing our reputation and, oh yeah, killing hundreds of thousands of completely innocent bystanders. And making us go broke. All for nothing, and in fact, less than nothing.

And again with the 'isolationism' claims. Apparently to a neocon, you're still an isolationist - even if you trade with everyone - so long as you refuse to export bombs on top of women and children.

Kudos for using the magic word, 'Anti-semitism', that wins all their arguments despite not actually addressing any of the concerns raised. It's funny how neocons, in their burning hatred for liberals, will not hesitate to copy their methods of leveraging accusations of bigotry in order to intellectually bankrupt and strangle debate on their horribly retarded and arrogant world view.

[TheEvilDetector]

Lifetime of brainwashing can be pretty difficult to undo.

[BlackTerrel]

Never heard of this website but their name is appropriate.

Ron Paul makes a solid point as usual.

Of course if the "attack was staged" as a number of people here say then Ron Paul is wrong.

[Baptist]

Never heard of this website but their name is appropriate.

Ron Paul makes a solid point as usual.

Of course if the "attack was staged" as a number of people here say then Ron Paul is wrong.

Exactly.

[devil21]

Never heard of this website but their name is appropriate.

Ron Paul makes a solid point as usual.

Of course if the "attack was staged" as a number of people here say then Ron Paul is wrong.

Staged or not, Americans still lose. The details of why are rather irrelevent to the big picture.


On topic: I wonder what neo-cons will campaign on in 2012 since Obama has basically hijacked their entire foreign policy.

[newbitech]

First, and most obviously, there is no U.S. occupation of Yemen or Nigeria. The only way the airline plot is a reaction to U.S. “occupation” is if you accept the jihadist premise that there are no Arab/Muslim nation-states but rather only one Islamic caliphate waiting to be born. Only in that way does the U.S. occupation of Iraq warrant a reprisal from, say, a Pakistani or Yemeni. And yet, needless to say, if Britain was attacked tomorrow and Obama pledged U.S. forces to assist in the reprisal, Paul would be the first guy to scream that we should scrupulously observe national boundaries and not go fighting another country’s battles for it.

Second, as usual, his facts are wrong. He uncritically accepts Abdulmutallab’s assertion that the bomb plot was retaliation for the U.S. airstrike on jihadi camps in Yemen. Not so: As Jake Tapper explained yesterday, this turd had already been mobilized and had even bought his Northwest ticket before we struck. Purely and simply, America’s Greatest Patriot is parroting propaganda cooked up by jihadist pieces of sh*t because it happens to fit his insane foreign policy agenda. Support him and his disciples at your peril.


http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/Yemen.pdf



Although no U.S. troops are based permanently in Yemen, the United States has provided military assistance and technical support in recent years. According to the U.S. Department of State, the resumption of International Military Education and Training (IMET) assistance and the transfer of military equipment and spare parts to Yemen have improved defense relations between the United States and Yemen. In FY 2006, Foreign Military Financing for Yemen was US$8.4 million, IMET was US$924,000, and Non-Proliferation, Anti-Terrorism, Demining and Related Programs received US$1.4 million. Nongovernment sources report that in addition to this aid, U.S. military advisers have trained Yemeni troops in counterterrorism techniques, and the United States has contributed to Yemen’s border security by installing advanced technological immigration control systems. In an effort to bolster Yemen’s maritime security and establish a coast guard capable of stemming terrorist activities, the United States has sent naval experts to train the new Yemeni coast guard and in 2004–5 donated 14 patrol craft to the coast guard. In 2005 an Australian company delivered 10 patrol boats to assist Yemeni government efforts to combat terrorism and illegal trafficking; the company will train crews to man the vessels.

Foreign Military Forces: There are no permanent U.S. troops in Yemen, but military personnel have been deployed there in recent years for training purposes. Since the February 2006 escape of 23 Al Qaeda members from a prison in Sanaa, an international coalition of warships has patrolled the waterways off Yemen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/world/middleeast/18yemen.html


Sep 18, 2009 ... The attack appeared to be the deadliest single episode in a worsening war between government forces and the Houthi rebels.
So first off, I'd just like to say that this ass hat that is lambasting Ron Paul and any others like him are ratcheting up the propaganda and bold faced lies more and more intently.

In the first suggestion that there is no occupation of Yemen or Nigeria, well he pretty much shoots himself in the foot as others have already pointed out in this thread. I just thought I'd add the US Congress Factbook to the record. The US Military has been conducting operations in Yemen for years. Sure there is no permanent base, but there sure seems to be a permanent link to the maritime operations as well as the military infrastructure. This is the place where the USS Cole was bombed. It is not such a stretch to consider that many Yemenis consider their country to be "occupied" by US Military forces.

The next point, WHO SAYS the guy with the bomb was responding to the attack that occurred in Dec? Why no the more deadly attack that occurred in Sept, just 3 months ago. At the very least, this guy shows is complete ignorance or just out right LIE that Dr. Paul doesn't have his facts straight. There was indeed an even deadly airstrike in Yemen just 3 months ago. As if this most recent strike, "the" strike is the only one to have occurred within the "response" time frame.

Fuck these reporters and all those who jump on the propaganda band wagon to bash Dr. Paul. What a bunch of scared whiny little bitches. They percieve Dr. Paul as weak on foreign policy simply because they have absolutely NO IDEA why what is happening between the USA and Yemen is happening. Oh and Nigeria? Pffftt. One search...

niger delta + africom

http://allafrica.com/stories/200912100945.html


Africa: (http://allafrica.com/africa/)Obama Moves Ahead With Africom

Daniel Volman
10 December 2009


The clearest indication of President Obama's intentions for AFRICOM (United States African Command) and for America's military involvement in Africa is provided by the budget requests for the 2010 financial year submitted by the Departments of State and Defense to Congress in May 2009. The State Department budget request - which includes funding for all US arms sales, military training, and other security assistance programmes - proposes major increases in funding for US arms sales to a number of African countries through the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) programme. The budget proposes to increase FMF funding for sub-Saharan African counties more than 300 per cent, from just over US$8.2 million to more than US$25.5 million, with additional increases in funding for Maghrebi countries. Major recipients slated for increases include Chad (US$500,000), the Democratic Republic of Congo (US$2.5 million), Djibouti (US$2.5 million), Ethiopia (US$3 million), Kenya (US$1 million), Liberia (US$9 million), Morocco (US$9 million), Nigeria (US$1.4 million), South Africa (US$800,000) and the Africa Regional Program (US$2.8 million).


Also look up the Nigerian JTF which has become heavily active in attacking unarmed villages because the militants there are tired of getting lied to by corrupt politicians. Seems there is a big Shell and Cheveron Corps over there that are not willing to share the resources and pay the workers what they agreed to. Seems like slavery is unpopular everywhere in the world, and its no surprise that the USA wants to throw its weight around in the region. Tsk Tsk, these ass hats cant figure out WTF is up and want to talk down on the only man in the USA with a voice loud enough to make sense of it all for them. Dammit.

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

Howdy,

Thanks, Tech. That was a good link about Yemen. May I ask how you found it? Do you know of a good .GOV search engine?

Regards,
Omphfullas Zamboni

[catdd]

It's comment threads like that completely lacking in independent thought that depresses me, and the fact that this is, actually, the MAJORITY line of thought of most Americans that makes me sort of glad they'll get what's coming to them, even if they take the rest of the country with them for their ignorance.

The distinction also needs to be made that Paul isn't against the wars and the attacks because he thinks the terrorists are justified, he's against them because they're NOT WORKING and are, in fact, the greatest reason why the terrorists are getting even stronger! The only thing they're doing effectively is trashing our reputation and, oh yeah, killing hundreds of thousands of completely innocent bystanders. And making us go broke. All for nothing, and in fact, less than nothing.

And again with the 'isolationism' claims. Apparently to a neocon, you're still an isolationist - even if you trade with everyone - so long as you refuse to export bombs on top of women and children.

Kudos for using the magic word, 'Anti-semitism', that wins all their arguments despite not actually addressing any of the concerns raised. It's funny how neocons, in their burning hatred for liberals, will not hesitate to copy their methods of leveraging accusations of bigotry in order to intellectually bankrupt and strangle debate on their horribly retarded and arrogant world view.



nice post
We still have plenty of time to clarify the difference between non-intervention and isolationism. If one is an isolationist, obviously he wouldn't be trading with other countries or being on friendly terms - the non-interventionalist would simply stay out of their internal affairs and ask that they respect his.

[Bruno]

nice post
We still have plenty of time to clarify the difference between non-intervention and isolationism. If one is an isolationist, obviously he wouldn't be trading with other countries or being on friendly terms - the non-interventionalist would simply stay out of their internal affairs and ask that they respect his.

that could be a good topic for a youtube video

[Keller1967]

nice post
We still have plenty of time to clarify the difference between non-intervention and isolationism. If one is an isolationist, obviously he wouldn't be trading with other countries or being on friendly terms - the non-interventionalist would simply stay out of their internal affairs and ask that they respect his.

You should try to relate it to people we would see in society.

Isolationist - hermit that lives in the woods and never relies on anyone.

Non-interventionist - business owner who is trying to trade fairly with his neighborhood/city

Interventionist - business owner turned mafia leader who is trying to use violence to better his bottom line

[MsDoodahs]

YouTube - Ron Paul Says "Just Come Home" at ABC Debate with George (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX-DIpkJRDY)

[ctiger2]

Of course if the "attack was staged" as a number of people here say then Ron Paul is wrong.

If Ron knew this particular attack was staged then I'd bet he'd have a different opinion about this one event.

[lester1/2jr]

in the stock market we call people like these" bag holders". they are waiting for an america that is in the middle of two wars to get excited about more of them and it's never going to happen.

let's leave neoconservatism in the 00's!

[Dunedain]

Isolationism is just another buzzword that equals = bad. Isolation is a bad thing. However, minding your own business does not equal something bad, it equals "avoiding entangling alliances".

Next we will hear about how "appeasement" didn't work prior to WWI and it won't work on the "terrusts".

[fisharmor]

The only way the airline plot is a reaction to U.S. “occupation” is if you accept the jihadist premise that there are no Arab/Muslim nation-states but rather only one Islamic caliphate waiting to be born.

No, there's another better way to see this as a reaction to "occupation" - the history of the region.

Anyone who would dare suggest that the Arab/Muslim nation-states were in any way originally the idea of the Arabs/Muslims living in the area is simply ignorant of history. Westerners have been fooling around with national borders in that area for a thousand years.

AFAIK They don't have a massively funded arm of the state dedicated to brainwashing their youth into believing in the borders the white man drew for them. The whole situation makes perfect sense once you reexamine the Ministry of Truth's story in the light of the historical facts.

[angelatc]

This is why the country can't ever get anywhere politically. People prefer to remain stupid. The have no interest in learning the distinctions between isolationism and non-interventionism, even though there are legitimate differences.

It's the same with all policy issues and historical lessons, especially across the aisle. Why do people choose to remain so willfully ignorant?

But this caught my eye:

As Jake Tapper explained yesterday, this turd had already been mobilized and had even bought his Northwest ticket before we struck.

From the ABC article above:
Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula claimed “credit” for the failed attack on the Northwest Airlines flight on Christmas Day, claiming that the attempted terrorist attack was retaliation for the December 17 airstrike against al Qaeda in Yemen. ...(He purchased his plane ticket in Ghana the day before, in fact, and had been in Yemen for months before.)

I don't have a source, but the TV news indicated that this guy moved around the Middle East quite a bit. And even more importantly, this Russia Today article dates the US airstrikes December 16.
http://rt.com/Top_News/2009-12-16/us-airstrike-rebels-yemen.html Published 16 December, 2009, 18:47

Edited 18 December, 2009, 20:21

Rebels in Northwest Yemen are accusing the United States of killing at least 120 people and wounding 44 in air strikes.

[Anti Federalist]

The hot air idiots don't understand a central point:

Even if they are right (which they are not), we're too broke to continue.

The "glass parking lot" crowd of buffoons will change their tune when, and only when, they are broke, drafted and bankrupt as well.

[Chieppa1]

The guy used the word "turd" in his article. Why are we even discussing his opinion?

[newbitech]

The guy used the word "turd" in his article. Why are we even discussing his opinion?


i'd say its the comments at the end of the article that have folks on this forum discussing the merits (or lack thereof).

[AuH20]

The hot air idiots don't understand a central point:

Even if they are right (which they are not), we're too broke to continue.

The "glass parking lot" crowd of buffoons will change their tune when, and only when, they are broke, drafted and bankrupt as well.

Their sanity flew out the window after 9/11. Before 9/11, Paul could have been a legitimate republican candidate. But after the attack, the neocon mentality has become quite prevalent.

[newbitech]

Howdy,

Thanks, Tech. That was a good link about Yemen. May I ask how you found it? Do you know of a good .GOV search engine?

Regards,
Omphfullas Zamboni


just google. I have become quite proficient over the years in data mining techniques and this was a manual search. I guess I have a knack for recognizing certain "keywords" and relevancy.

There is actually a ton more information out there on this topic in both public and private domains hosted in not only the USA but around the world.

I find it absolutely appalling that folks making uninformed comments, the writer and publishers of articles like this, and the folks who have something to say about the topic, are either too lazy or too dishonest to check the veracity of the claims.

There really is no excuse for being ignorant, and at the very least folks should only form strong opinions after they have done their due diligence in researching the topic. For instance, Ron Paul forums ranks in the top 5,000 of all website for the USA.

Take a look at this list from Alexa internet traffic ranking http://www.alexa.com/topsites/category/Top/Society/Politics

and you can see several sites that are easily recognizable as liberty type sites or sites that directly and openly support liberty and Ron Paul.

Folks who are interested in politics and hold disparaging views of Ron Paul in my opinion are clearly in the minority. I also believe that these same folks must do some extra leg work in order to attempt to dig up articles that put Ron Paul down in the manner we have seen here in the OP.

That means these people in the minority clearly have an agenda of attempting to interfere or otherwise disrupt the liberty movement.

Damn ridiculous.

[dannno]

Never heard of this website but their name is appropriate.

Ron Paul makes a solid point as usual.

Of course if the "attack was staged" as a number of people here say then Ron Paul is wrong.

That is so WRONG.

The terrorist was still pissed at us. He was still attending terrorist training camps..

It's unfortunate that you are unable to learn how intelligence operates. There are people in intelligence who are in these terrorist groups.. that's their job, right?! Then they lead these people into committing acts of terrorism and give them a free path to do so.. sometimes they will supply them with faulty equipment, such as how they did it this time. It doesn't change the fact that the terrorist hated us and was willing to go through with it.. just like on 9/11, some of the terrorists hated us and were actually willing to go through with it, but some of them were intelligence themselves. You know, the ones that trained at US military installations and whatnot.. It's not that difficult to comprehend this stuff.

[sluggo]

It must be nice to live in a world as simplistic as the one those HotAir readers live in.

This thinking business sucks!

[AuH20]

There are dolts on Hot Air who actually talking about backing some Tim Grainey dude to primary Paul. Have they lost their minds?:confused:

[ItsTime]

By the smell of this "hot air" she is talking out of her ass again.

[fletcher]

Ironic that the comment section there is called blowback but not a single one of them knows what it actually means.

[angelatc]

It's a closed environment. They don't allow new people in. And their comments tend to show what happens to the gene pool when variety is removed from the equation. It literally stunts the emotional growth.

[dannno]

ironic that the comment section there is called blowback but not a single one of them knows what it actually means.

lol..

[dannno]

It's a closed environment. They don't allow new people in. And their comments tend to show what happens to the gene pool when variety is removed from the equation. It literally stunts the emotional growth.

I logged in, made a comment.. it's not showing up.

[lester1/2jr]

I wonder if they don't know what blowback is or if they are pretending out of just sheer cowardice.

[MelissaWV]

Today is just one of those days to lose a little faith in humanity. I found this little gem on my favorite tabloid site (FoxNews):

Should the TSA Mandate Full-Body Scanners?

Yes. I don't mind losing privacy if it stops terrorism. 61% (22,180 votes)

Maybe. But offer a full pat-down as alternative. 12% (4,309 votes)

No. If this becomes common, I won't fly anymore. 26% (9,366 votes)

I don't know. 2% (679 votes)

Total Votes: 36,534

[Anti Federalist]

Today is just one of those days to lose a little faith in humanity. I found this little gem on my favorite tabloid site (FoxNews):

Should the TSA Mandate Full-Body Scanners?

Yes. I don't mind losing privacy if it stops terrorism. 61% (22,180 votes)

Maybe. But offer a full pat-down as alternative. 12% (4,309 votes)

No. If this becomes common, I won't fly anymore. 26% (9,366 votes)

I don't know. 2% (679 votes)

Total Votes: 36,534

*sigh*

I've said it so many times now it hurts: most people don't know or want freedom.

If some uniform told them: "Sir, for your own safety I must now rape your wife. Please stand down sir, while I complete this necessary function to keep your family safe." most people would happily comply and thank the uniform for doing it.

We were not a majority in 1776 and we'll never be one now.

Therefore there are limited options:

Drag Boobus along kicking and screaming.

Nullify, separate and divorce ourselves from Boobus.

Submit to tyranny and oppression.

[BlackTerrel]

Staged or not, Americans still lose. The details of why are rather irrelevent to the big picture.

I disagree. Either:

1. Ron Paul is right and they're attacking us because we're over there. The very definition of "blowback". Or

2. It is the CIA. And there is no blowback.

The two are mutually exclusive.


On topic: I wonder what neo-cons will campaign on in 2012 since Obama has basically hijacked their entire foreign policy.

I'm not happy about it but by 2012 our economy is going to be even worse, inflation will skyrocket and we will still be in a quagmire involved in countless wars around the world. Ron Paul's message will resonate with a lot of people.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

*sigh*

I've said it so many times now it hurts: most people don't know or want freedom.

If some uniform told them: "Sir, for your own safety I must now rape your wife. Please stand down sir, while I complete this necessary function to keep your family safe." most people would happily comply and thank the uniform for doing it.

We were not a majority in 1776 and we'll never be one now.

Therefore there are limited options:

Drag Boobus along kicking and screaming.

Nullify, separate and divorce ourselves from Boobus.

Submit to tyranny and oppression.

LMAO This post is hilarious for the simple fact you used "Boobus".

I agree. However, it's kind of hard to bring them along kicking and screaming when they outnumber us, and their vote counts just as much as ours. So, it seems we can scratch that. We have to educate people, and I fear that we ran out of time, so we have to at least have one state that will have to lead the way, by Nullifying, Interposition, and if need be secession.

This is why the Free State Project is so important.

[dannno]

I disagree. Either:

1. Ron Paul is right and they're attacking us because we're over there. The very definition of "blowback". Or

2. It is the CIA. And there is no blowback.

The two are mutually exclusive.



No they AREN'T!! That is illogical and completely ridiculous.. They are actually COMPLIMENTARY to each other!! Please learn how intelligence operates before making these ludicrous statements.. Intelligence BY DEFINITION operates under enemy lines.. So why is it so hard for intelligence to gather these people together and help orchestrate these events?? Why can't you comprehend that there needs to be motive and hatred to make these events more believable to the public? Why can't you see the obvious that these people have been given a clear path to do what they want, and they would almost never get away with it otherwise?

Why do you always ignore my posts?? (specifically #26 in this thread)

[newbitech]

No they AREN'T!! That is illogical and completely ridiculous.. They are actually COMPLIMENTARY to each other!! Please learn how intelligence operates before making these ludicrous statements.. Intelligence BY DEFINITION operates under enemy lines.. So why is it so hard for intelligence to gather these people together and help orchestrate these events?? Why can't you comprehend that there needs to be motive and hatred to make these events more believable to the public? Why can't you see the obvious that these people have been given a clear path to do what they want, and they would almost never get away with it otherwise?

Why do you always ignore my posts?? (specifically #26 in this thread)


i don't think the people in the war torn countries have any doubt of who is behind the violence in their countries. It doesn't matter if our people are dressed in tactical gear or tuxedos, USA interest and intervention in these countries is a direct cause for the violence. The people of Yemen, Iraq, Afghan, Nigeria and all over the world do not distinguish between CIA ops and overt military presence. All they care about is their countrymen are being corrupted with the help of foreign interest, namely America and are not acting the best interest of the laborers of the oil fields etc etc while those same laborers are being ripped off and lied to by their own governments.

You are right Danno, CIA Ops and Military Bases both cause blow back. No mutual exclusivity there as far as I can see.

[dannno]

i don't think the people in the war torn countries have any doubt of who is behind the violence in their countries. It doesn't matter if our people are dressed in tactical gear or tuxedos, USA interest and intervention in these countries is a direct cause for the violence. The people of Yemen, Iraq, Afghan, Nigeria and all over the world do not distinguish between CIA ops and overt military presence. All they care about is their countrymen are being corrupted with the help of foreign interest, namely America and are not acting the best interest of the laborers of the oil fields etc etc while those same laborers are being ripped off and lied to by their own governments.

You are right Danno, CIA Ops and Military Bases both cause blow back. No mutual exclusivity there as far as I can see.

Well ya, CIA ops cause blowback, but there are also intelligence ops that join in with the blowback, such as this one. The kid went to a terrorist facility, his father notified US intelligence. US intelligence then went in and found this kid, and instead of stopping him, they used him to help further their agenda. The kid is still pissed off because we are occupying Muslim countries, so unlike Terrel is claiming it is still blowback. 9/11 was an inside job, but there was still blowback because they used real terrorists. But in this case he never would have been able to make it onto an international flight into the US without the help of intelligence. Like someone in the HotAir comments intelligently pointed out, they are becoming more skeptical of these incidents because the underwear bomber could have probably killed a lot more people if he'd simply blown himself up IN the airport rather than taking the chances of getting on a flight.

[Bruno]

Well ya, CIA ops cause blowback, but there are also intelligence ops that join in with the blowback, such as this one. The kid went to a terrorist facility, his father notified US intelligence. US intelligence then went in and found this kid, and instead of stopping him, they used him to help further their agenda. The kid is still pissed off because we are occupying Muslim countries, so unlike Terrel is claiming it is still blowback. 9/11 was an inside job, but there was still blowback because they used real terrorists. But in this case he never would have been able to make it onto an international flight into the US without the help of intelligence. Like someone in the HotAir comments intelligently pointed out, they are becoming more skeptical of these incidents because the underwear bomber could have probably killed a lot more people if he'd simply blown himself up IN the airport rather than taking the chances of getting on a flight.

Lusitania = permissible blowback as well

[BlackTerrel]

Their sanity flew out the window after 9/11. Before 9/11, Paul could have been a legitimate republican candidate. But after the attack, the neocon mentality has become quite prevalent.

I disagree. Maybe initially, but over time things will happen which will prove Ron Paul right. By 2012 I predict:

1. The economy tanking further and hyper inflation. Thus confirming that the current strategy of bailouts and printing tons of money is ineffective. Paul's sensible economic policies make more and more sense.

2. More terrorist plots and attacks. People here think this strengthens the neo-cons. They're wrong. It doesn't. It strengthens Ron Paul. The neo-cons are in control and this proves that their methods don't work. Bombing random Muslim countries, spending trillions of dollars and sending our people over there to die, and taking away our civil liberties at home doesn't stop terrorism... it can't. There will be more terrorism there will be more death and people will see that the neo-con strategy doesn't work and the government can't protect us.

Now let me be 100% clear - being a Ron Paul supporter doesn't mean I want these things to happen. I have to make a living in this country and the economy tanking is very bad for me. And there is nothing I want less than terrorist attacks and dead Americans. I really wish I am wrong, but I am fairly confident these things will occur. Maybe 2012, maybe it waits to 2016 but it will happen. And it will be a good time for Ron Paul or a similar, younger candidate (maybe Rand) to make a strong showing.

[BlackTerrel]

No they AREN'T!! That is illogical and completely ridiculous.. They are actually COMPLIMENTARY to each other!! Please learn how intelligence operates before making these ludicrous statements.. Intelligence BY DEFINITION operates under enemy lines.. So why is it so hard for intelligence to gather these people together and help orchestrate these events?? Why can't you comprehend that there needs to be motive and hatred to make these events more believable to the public? Why can't you see the obvious that these people have been given a clear path to do what they want, and they would almost never get away with it otherwise?

Why do you always ignore my posts?? (specifically #26 in this thread)

Why do they need intelligence? How hard is it to stick a piece of dynamite to your leg and get through a metal detector?

[dannno]

Why do they need intelligence?

How is this relevant? The intelligence comes to them and offers them help. They accept it. They don't tell them they are from the CIA or whatever group, that's the entire point of infiltrating. It's pretty simple.

There was FBI intelligence joining the Mongols and the Hells Angels back in the day, and I saw a documentary on TV about how the agents caused a lot of the rifts between the two groups. They setup a fake murder scene of one of the members of the group (who was intelligence), the others took pictures and then the "victim" agent just left town. The other agents took it from there. This caused a lot of animosity, and the gangs had huge disputes after this incident, it was all setup by intelligence. They infiltrate and cause havoc, that's their job.



How hard is it to stick a piece of dynamite to your leg and get through a metal detector?

I certainly wouldn't attempt it, I'd say it would be pretty difficult.

[catdd]

I disagree. Maybe initially, but over time things will happen which will prove Ron Paul right. By 2012 I predict:

1. The economy tanking further and hyper inflation. Thus confirming that the current strategy of bailouts and printing tons of money is ineffective. Paul's sensible economic policies make more and more sense.

2. More terrorist plots and attacks. People here think this strengthens the neo-cons. They're wrong. It doesn't. It strengthens Ron Paul. The neo-cons are in control and this proves that their methods don't work. Bombing random Muslim countries, spending trillions of dollars and sending our people over there to die, and taking away our civil liberties at home doesn't stop terrorism... it can't. There will be more terrorism there will be more death and people will see that the neo-con strategy doesn't work and the government can't protect us.

Now let me be 100% clear - being a Ron Paul supporter doesn't mean I want these things to happen. I have to make a living in this country and the economy tanking is very bad for me. And there is nothing I want less than terrorist attacks and dead Americans. I really wish I am wrong, but I am fairly confident these things will occur. Maybe 2012, maybe it waits to 2016 but it will happen. And it will be a good time for Ron Paul or a similar, younger candidate (maybe Rand) to make a strong showing.



This is a good post. Let's just hope it strengthens Ron Paul and the liberty movement before it's too late.

[devil21]

Today is just one of those days to lose a little faith in humanity. I found this little gem on my favorite tabloid site (FoxNews):

Should the TSA Mandate Full-Body Scanners?

Yes. I don't mind losing privacy if it stops terrorism. 61% (22,180 votes)

Maybe. But offer a full pat-down as alternative. 12% (4,309 votes)

No. If this becomes common, I won't fly anymore. 26% (9,366 votes)

I don't know. 2% (679 votes)

Total Votes: 36,534

It's also very easy for people to say that from the comfort of their living room or whatever. People are all for crap like that until it starts affecting them personally. Wait and see how J6P reacts when his 42DD wife is ordered through the naked scanner and the TSA punks are grinning from ear to ear.


Well ya, CIA ops cause blowback, but there are also intelligence ops that join in with the blowback, such as this one. The kid went to a terrorist facility, his father notified US intelligence. US intelligence then went in and found this kid, and instead of stopping him, they used him to help further their agenda. The kid is still pissed off because we are occupying Muslim countries, so unlike Terrel is claiming it is still blowback. 9/11 was an inside job, but there was still blowback because they used real terrorists. But in this case he never would have been able to make it onto an international flight into the US without the help of intelligence. Like someone in the HotAir comments intelligently pointed out, they are becoming more skeptical of these incidents because the underwear bomber could have probably killed a lot more people if he'd simply blown himself up IN the airport rather than taking the chances of getting on a flight.

I absolutely agree with this post and the reason is that scenarios like these create "plausible deniability", which is a hallmark of gov't ops. The terrorists really do hate us but the CIA (and their assorted associates like the ISI) give them the means to perpetrate the acts, either through active assistance or turning a blind eye to a known upcoming event. Either way, the agenda wins and Americans lose.