Question to Ron Paul Supporters

[romacox]

As an employer, I like E-Verify, because it is the only accurate way I can check to see if a potential employee is legal. Without it, I have no way of knowing. Like Ron Paul, I am for prosecuting illegal employers.

I certainly understand why he opposes National ID. But why would he not support E-Verify. I agree with Ron Paul on most things, but perhaps not on E-Verify.
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002637.html

Can anyone explain his views on this?

[paulpwns]

http://www.aclu.org/immigrants-rights/whats-wrong-e-verify

[Reason]

as an employer, i like e-verify, because it is the only accurate way i can check to see if a potential employee is legal. Without it, i have no way of knowing. Like ron paul, i am for prosecuting illegal employers.

I certainly understand why he opposes national id. But why would he not support e-verify. I agree with ron paul on most things, but perhaps not on e-verify.
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002637.html (http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002637.html)

can anyone explain his views on this?

1-202-225-2831

[Reason]

http://www.aclu.org/immigrants-rights/whats-wrong-e-verify (http://www.aclu.org/immigrants-rights/whats-wrong-e-verify)

Forces citizens and legal residents to get permission slip to work Expanding E-Verify would require every employer in the United States to verify the eligibility to work of every current and prospective employee using a flawed system that is riddled with errors. This will guarantee that millions of Americans will be barred from working.
Creates a “No Work List” ensuring millions of U.S. citizens will be denied jobs In a time of economic uncertainty, the last thing we need is for Congress to pass legislation that will make it more difficult for Americans to work.
Pending legislative proposals lack meaningful due process protections Workers injured by data errors will need a means of quickly and permanently resolving data errors so they do not become presumptively unemployable. All pending legislative proposals lack sufficient due process provisions to aid workers who are wrongly denied the right to start their next job.
Congress should block any legislation unless it mandates that:
1.) the systems and databases used to collect and disseminate information about those attempting to work be publicly disclosed so workers and employers are aware of them
2.) information collected by both government agencies and employers that is gathered for one purpose shall not be used for another purpose without individuals’ consent
3.) workers can access information held about them in a timely fashion and without petitioning the government for access
4.) workers may correct, amend, improve or clarify information held about them by both government and employers
5.) information about employees be kept relevant, accurate and up to date
6.) information is protected against unauthorized losses such as data breaches or identity theft.
Relies on error-ridden government databases Congress needs to make sure the government’s databases are cleaned up before imposing any verification programs . SSA itself reports that approximately 17.8 million of its files contain incorrect data, 12.7 of which concern U.S. citizens.

[Matt Collins]

One should not have to ask permission from the government before they are allowed to work. If our borders were enforced we wouldn't have this problem. But we don't solve our illegal immigration issue by turning the US into a police state and trampling the rights of everyone in the process.

[talkingpointes]

I don't think it matters what so ever. Imagine the farmers of the United States using E-Verify. Before you live in the shit shack for 3 weeks to pick vegetables i'm going to have to do a citizen check. lol

[romacox]

My question is still unanswered. Why does Ron Paul oppose E-Verify?

Giving me, as an employer, access to information that tells me if a person I am about to hire holds a legal drivers license and a legitimate social security number allows me to make a decision about hiring them . That is not a police state. I also have the wright to drug test if I so desire. (granted social security should not exist in the first place, but at this point it does, and, as a business owner, I have to deal in real time, and real conditions.

When someone votes, voter registration should be allowed to confirm if a voter has a legal right to vote. Holding 5 illegal drivers licenses does not give anyone the write to vote 5 times to your one vote. At this point E-Verify is the only way to verify.

[Knightskye]

My question is still unanswered. Why does Ron Paul oppose E-Verify?

Giving me, as an employer, access to information that tells me if a person I am about to hire holds a legal drivers license and a legitimate social security number allows me to make a decision about hiring them . That is not a police state. I also have the right to drug test if I so desire. (granted social security should not exist in the first place, but at this point it does, and as a business owner I have to deal in real time, and real conditions.

When someone votes, voter registration should be allowed to confirm if a voter has a legal right to vote. Holding 5 illegal drivers licenses does not give anyone the write to vote 5 times to your one vote. At this point E-Verify is the only way to verify.

Ron Paul opposes it because it's not something authorized by the Constitution. If you watched the Republican primary debates, you'll note that he called for the dismantling of the Dept. of Homeland Security, which would run the E-Verify program.

[Captain Bryan]

My question is still unanswered. Why does Ron Paul oppose E-Verify?

Giving me, as an employer, access to information that tells me if a person I am about to hire holds a legal drivers license and a legitimate social security number allows me to make a decision about hiring them . That is not a police state. I also have the wright to drug test if I so desire. (granted social security should not exist in the first place, but at this point it does, and, as a business owner, I have to deal in real time, and real conditions.

When someone votes, voter registration should be allowed to confirm if a voter has a legal right to vote. Holding 5 illegal drivers licenses does not give anyone the write to vote 5 times to your one vote. At this point E-Verify is the only way to verify.

Do you have CivilRadiant on ignore or something?

[erowe1]

As an employer, I like E-Verify, because it is the only accurate way I can check to see if a potential employee is legal. Without it, I have no way of knowing. Like Ron Paul, I am for prosecuting illegal employers.

I certainly understand why he opposes National ID. But why would he not support E-Verify. I agree with Ron Paul on most things, but perhaps not on E-Verify.
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002637.html

Can anyone explain his views on this?

The government has no right to know anything about who you hire, or even whether or not you're an employer who hires anyone at all. It should not be your job to enforce federal immigration laws. Any legislation that puts that burden on you is totally anti-freedom, unconstitutional, and unethical.

[romacox]

OK. From some of the posts I understand why Ron Paul.


would not make e-verify mandatory. But why shouldn't something as accurate as E-verify be available to me as an employer? E-Verify is accurate. 98 percent of eligible workers are confirmed to work instantaneously. Fewer than one percent of eligible workers need to update their records to be confirmed. http://www.cis.org/articles/2008/jmvtestimony051408.html


I understand why he wants to do get rid of Homeland Security. But why could they not make a program (that is this accurate, inexpensive, and easy to use) available to us business owners through another agency like the police department.



It is not a burden...I want the choice (freedom) to use E-Verify. I like hiring immigrants, but I want them to be legal. How else can I possibly check? If the applicant doesn't want to allow me to check their status here, fine then I do not have to hire them either.


I don't mean to be contrary...just trying to understand.

[dannno]

Do you have CivilRadiant on ignore or something?

This.

[dannno]

I like hiring immigrants, but I want them to be legal. How else can I possibly check? If the applicant doesn't want to allow me to check their status here, fine then I do not have to hire them either.



How do you check them currently?

Is E-verify simply a faster way for you to verify?

Bold is correct.

[romacox]

Forces citizens and legal residents to get permission slip to work Expanding E-Verify would require every employer in the United States to verify the eligibility to work of every current and prospective employee using a flawed system that is riddled with errors. This will guarantee that millions of Americans will be barred from working.
Creates a “No Work List” ensuring millions of U.S. citizens will be denied jobs In a time of economic uncertainty, the last thing we need is for Congress to pass legislation that will make it more difficult for Americans to work.
Pending legislative proposals lack meaningful due process protections Workers injured by data errors will need a means of quickly and permanently resolving data errors so they do not become presumptively unemployable. All pending legislative proposals lack sufficient due process provisions to aid workers who are wrongly denied the right to start their next job.
Congress should block any legislation unless it mandates that:
1.) the systems and databases used to collect and disseminate information about those attempting to work be publicly disclosed so workers and employers are aware of them
2.) information collected by both government agencies and employers that is gathered for one purpose shall not be used for another purpose without individuals’ consent
3.) workers can access information held about them in a timely fashion and without petitioning the government for access
4.) workers may correct, amend, improve or clarify information held about them by both government and employers
5.) information about employees be kept relevant, accurate and up to date
6.) information is protected against unauthorized losses such as data breaches or identity theft.
Relies on error-ridden government databases Congress needs to make sure the government’s databases are cleaned up before imposing any verification programs . SSA itself reports that approximately 17.8 million of its files contain incorrect data, 12.7 of which concern U.S. citizens.

No intent to ignore Civil Radiant. I appreciate him taking the time to respond. He just did not answer my question from the perspective, of me, as an employer. He says; "Expanding E-Verify would require every employer in the United States to verify." That is not the case with me. All the employers I know willing use E-verify unless they deliberately hire illegals, and they are the ones that lobby against the program . We like doing our part, as citizens of this Country to secure our borders.



No problem with # 1-6

[romacox]

How do you check them currently?

Is E-verify simply a faster way for you to verify?

Bold is correct.

Currently I pay a payroll service to do background checks (which includes E-Verify), and it has saved liability risks and a great deal of expense to our Company. E-verify is, at this time. the only way to check for their legal status. It is the only government program that is highly accurate, inexpensive, and easy to use. See this link: http://www.cis.org/articles/2008/jmvtestimony051408.html

The politicians, and open border advocates keep trying to water it down to make it less accurate, and more expensive. The biggest culprit is the Chamber of Commerce who represents large corporations who push for open borders.

[LibForestPaul]

My question is still unanswered. Why does Ron Paul oppose E-Verify?

Giving me, as an employer, access to information that tells me if a person I am about to hire holds a legal drivers license and a legitimate social security number allows me to make a decision about hiring them . That is not a police state. I also have the wright to drug test if I so desire. (granted social security should not exist in the first place, but at this point it does, and, as a business owner, I have to deal in real time, and real conditions.

When someone votes, voter registration should be allowed to confirm if a voter has a legal right to vote. Holding 5 illegal drivers licenses does not give anyone the write to vote 5 times to your one vote. At this point E-Verify is the only way to verify.


Why do you believe, as an employer, it is your job to police the workforce? Why do you believe the government has a right to force an undue burden on your business? Not drug testing an employee is your choice. Not checking the "employment status" of a US citizen is not your choice.

It is not my responsibility, as an employer, to do the governments job at my expense. I should not be required to
a) verify the work eligibility of person
b) verify the social security number of a person
c) report his earnings
d) pay his income tax withholdings.

[LibForestPaul]

When/where/what was the first law passed that required some type of employment eligibility screening by employers?
i.e.
John Smith in 1810 wants to work for a Jim Jones as a blacksmith apprentice. np
John Smith in 1860 wants to work for a Jim Jones as a blacksmith apprentice. np
John Smith in 1900 wants to work for a Jim Jones as a blacksmith apprentice. np ?
John Smith in 1930 wants to work for a Jim Jones as a blacksmith apprentice. np ?
John Smith in 1950 wants to work for a Jim Jones as a blacksmith apprentice. problem ?
John Smith in 1970 wants to work for a Jim Jones as a blacksmith apprentice. problem

[Icymudpuppy]

I have such a hard time finding qualified employees, I really don't care if they are from Alpha-Centauri.

Let employers find willing and able employees regardless of where they come from.

[angelatc]

I have such a hard time finding qualified employees, I really don't care if they are from Alpha-Centauri.

Let employers find willing and able employees regardless of where they come from.

If you can't find qualified workers in this economy, you're not paying enough. When the unemployment rate is as high as it is, it's pretty clear that we don't need any more labor.

Business needs to accept some responsibility for supplying the training that its workers need. I had a good portion of my college education paid for by an employer who needed more educated people that the labor market was providing.

[ChaosControl]

I don't like the idea of having lists of who can and can't work. I dislike any kind of centralized data being collected about people. Heck I oppose social security numbers.

Needs to be a better way.

[LibForestPaul]

I don't like the idea of having lists of who can and can't work. I dislike any kind of centralized data being collected about people. Heck I oppose social security numbers.

Needs to be a better way.

Note:
1) It would have to be a centralized database.
2) It would need to utilize biometrics.
2b) This would likely need to be retinal, as fingerprints can be lifted quite easily.
3) A unique identifier(number) would need to be created for each biometric entry(per person).
3b) It could not be SSN, as these repeat.
4) It would be accessible by foreign governments ( see INTERPOL thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=223851) )
5) As shown with SSN, this would become your shared identifier utilized within a host of other databases
Credit Worthiness
Welfare Programs
Government "Interaction"
Income Reporting
Firearm "Verification"
No Fly Lists
Terror Watch Lists


Probably all this puts a single tear in Stalins eye. Not even in his wildest dreams.

[erowe1]

No intent to ignore Civil Radiant. I appreciate him taking the time to respond. He just did not answer my question from the perspective, of me, as an employer. He says; "Expanding E-Verify would require every employer in the United States to verify." That is not the case with me. All the employers I know willing use E-verify unless they deliberately hire illegals, and they are the ones that lobby against the program . We like doing our part, as citizens of this Country to secure our borders.



No problem with # 1-6

If there are really as many employers who think like you as you claim (and for all I know there may be), then that means a demand exists for a service that could be provided in the free market without government involvement. One possibility would be a service that allows job applicants to prove their immigration status to them after which time they would be entered into a database so that their status could be quickly verified by any employers who check that database when those employees apply to them. Profits could be gained by fees paid either by those employers or by the job seekers or both. And it could be completely voluntary by all involved. Any job seekers who wish not to prove their immigration status to anyone would simply not register with the service. Meanwhile, employers who wish only to hire verified legal immigrants and citizens could tell applicants who do not use the service that they need not apply. This is just off the top of my head, the actual processes that would emerge in the free market due to innovative concepts and refinements thought up by entrepreneurs who would stand to gain and lose profits by making the best possible service available to people like you would surely incorporate things I haven't dreamed of. And if you think the government does a good job at this, it's not nearly as good of a job as could be done if the government weren't involved.

[Icymudpuppy]

If you can't find qualified workers in this economy, you're not paying enough. When the unemployment rate is as high as it is, it's pretty clear that we don't need any more labor.

Business needs to accept some responsibility for supplying the training that its workers need. I had a good portion of my college education paid for by an employer who needed more educated people that the labor market was providing.

I don't think I'm asking too much.
Here is the job description:
Home Service Technician solving wildlife pest problems.
Raccoons in Crawlspaces, Squirrels in Attics, Bats, Skunks and More.

Here is my list of qualifications I expect you to already have.
No Claustrophobia,
No aversion to bad smells or dirty conditions.
No Fear of heights.
No Fear of wild Animals.
No Aversion to Euthanasia.
Ability to identify and solve problems Practically.
Customer service skills for dealing with distraught homeowners.
Ability to organize a work schedule using a day planner or electronic scheduler.
Ability to do basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division story problem Arithmetic using a calculator.
Reading and comprehension...Please customize your coverletter to explain why you are interested in this position and how you fit with or will learn the desired skill set.
No Educational Requirement, entry level position

Here is what I will train you with.
Animal: Tracking, Identification, Behavior, lifecycle, trapping, Wild Animal Handling
Licenses Required: Trapping License (We can help you get it from the Department of Fish and Wildlife) Concealed Pistol License (Requires Sheriff's Background Check)
Basic Handyman skills.

Here is what I pay.
$10/hour during training.
$10/hour upon completion of training.
add+$10/hour if you drive your own truck
add+$10/hour if you have worked for me for two years or more.
add+$10/hour if you bring in the clients on your own not through company advertising.

A two year technician who sold a job on his own, and is driving his own truck makes $50/hour. Not bad for a job with no educational requirement.

It does require you to get dirty, think outside the box, do basic reading and math, act professionally, and perform physical labor.

If that isn't enough, once they've reached their earning capacity, they can open their own franchise office and be self employed, and I will help them achieve that independence.

[Icymudpuppy]

This is a pretty normal application I get. About 95% of the apps are virtually identical to this one... Failure to even read the job listing and provide the information I ask for. There is a reason these people are out of work. They can't follow simple instructions.

V_____ J F______
#### G___ R___ Dr.
O_____, WA 9****
###-###-#### (home)

k*******@comcast.net

RÉSUMÉ TEXT
================================================== ==============================

Job Objective
To aquire a position to utilize my knowledge and skills.


Skills and Abilities
Hyline International- Graham, WA 04/91-6/09
Maintence Supervisor
18 years of experience, managing up to 8 employees, anwsering phones, maintaining equipment and building, constantly monitering alarms and codes, hatchery experience and occasionally driving truck for deliveries.

Woodfab- Yelm, WA 01/90-10/90
Sawer
Sawed wood for fabrication wood products. Used a 10 inch radial saw.

Education

Fife High School

Location: Fife, WA

Dates Attended From: 9/1964 To: 5/1968

Major or Subject: High School/ GED

Licenses and Certifications

n/a

Work Experience

Hyline International

Location:
Graham, WA

From: 4/1991 To: 6/2009

Job Title: Maintence Supervisor

Duties:
18 years of experience, managing up to 8 employees, anwsering phones, maintaining equipment and building, constantly monitering alarms and codes, hatchery experience and occasionally driving truck for deliveries.

Woodfab

Location:
Yelm, WA

From: 1/1990 To: 10/1990

Job Title: Sawer

Duties:
Sawed wood for fabrication wood products. Used a 10 inch radial saw.

[fj45lvr]

this is maybe slightly off-topic but I am of the understanding that social security numbers are voluntary?? and you legally have the right to not devulge them to anyone??

They were not intended to become Identification for anything other than Social Security.....

also read this commentary:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd26.htm

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

If you can't find qualified workers in this economy, you're not paying enough. When the unemployment rate is as high as it is, it's pretty clear that we don't need any more labor.

Business needs to accept some responsibility for supplying the training that its workers need. I had a good portion of my college education paid for by an employer who needed more educated people that the labor market was providing.

You assume that just because we have a high unemployment rate, that every job, every industry, and every sector is experiencing high unemployment. This is false. For example, Nurses and Doctors aren't in short demand, nor are other professions.

As for the latter of your post, it's up to each business. Sometimes its beholden on our ourselves to become as proficient in our trade as possible. It's not up to the business. However, those businesses who do offer it will ultimately, won't be lacking for employees. Personal choice.

[Working Poor]

How do you find out if you are on a no work list?

[newbitech]

How do you find out if you are on a no work list?

I 2nd this question.

Employers screen out applicants based on advise from these third parties. The 3rd parties all share the same information anyways, often time from public records of the municipalities.

It seems as tho once you get screened out, you will always be screened out, and your private information is accessible by everyone else except for you.

Employment screening is as bad or worse than the credit bureaus. They are no better in determining who is credit worthy on a case by case basis than employment screens are at determining who is employable.

Sure there is an issue with illegal immigrants being hired, but this is small potatoes compared to wider issues with employment in the USA. I think illegals contribute only a small fraction of the employment problems we face.

My solution to being black listed by employment screens is to set up a corp and only do business on a contract basis. This is the only way I can be sure that every moment of my business transactions, every fiat dollar spent on my employment is controlled by the person who needs work done, and my business. Its the only way I can see right now to keep my business mine.

I can't stand that a third party has the ability to make money off of my potential employment with out any actual productive work being done.

You'll know if you are blacklisted by an employment pre-screen if you qualify for the position, and are passed over multiple times for the same or similar job postings.

This has been happening to me for almost 2 years now. I get to hear all kinds of excuses from firms that initially had me as a shoe in for the positions. I have tried everything imaginable to work around the pre screen problem I have. And you know what pisses me off the most? Not a single one of these employers, from small mom and pop on up to the large fortune 100 corp can tell me why they are passing me over. The most common excuse I hear is, "you are overqualified". The next most common excuse I hear is, "we have decided to go in a different direction". Then of course there is the bottom line the notorious "something" came up in your background.

I have heard the last one more and more recently, even tho I have paid over $400 dollars to submit a more thorough background check than most 3rd party screening agencies provide, including a drug screen. Companies seemed to at first appreciate my candidness and willingness to save them money, but I guess their policy is to use the 3rd party screening anyways, probably some retarded insurance requirement in their insurance plan. They know UP front without paying what they will find in my background. Its not even terrible, a couple of disorderly conduct misdemeanors settled pre-trial with withholds, meaning no convictions. AND I STILL HEAR the tired line of "something" in your background yada yada bullshit. I even provide arrest records and dispositions for EVERY SINGLE time I have dealt with cops. Case dismissed letters from SA office etc etc... So I have the absolute most thorough background check done FOR the company possible.

Oh, and when I ask exactly WHAT is this something, I LOL because I get to hear that the information is confidential and can't be shared with me. OK, USA. LOL. And here is another part of the problem with these 3rd party references from employment screens. I know for a fact that if ANY of these companies find discrepancies in your records, for instance, the clerk does a type-o and enters a bad SSN or a bad DL, this is grounds for INSTANT flagging your "account" which isn't really yours because you have no access to it.

THERE is absolutely NO WAY that employers who use these services can hold the 3rd party accountable for errors in their findings. Employers flat out trust the 3rd party NO MATTER WHAT. That is after all what they pay for, accurate answers. Who wants to believe that the person or company they paid has lied to them or gave them bad info? No one.

Background checks and employment pre-screens are a load of shit insurance "regulation" that dilutes the pool of qualified workers and causes companies to hire the wrong people. E-verify is no different. In fact, a centralized database only exacerbates the problems I have had. If one person, JUST ONE, makes a mistake on my records that go into this database (just like the credit bureau), then my entire record becomes tainted. And guess who is responsible for cleaning that bullshit up? Yep you guessed it, the only one without clear and free access and the only one to whom this information belongs.

Also, here is another BS problem with E-verify.


E-Verify is a voluntary program for employers, with limited exceptions. Companies can access E-Verify online and compare an employee's Form I-9 information with over 444 million records in the SSA database, and more than 60 million records in Department of Homeland Security immigration databases.444 million records in the SSA database? 60 million immigration records? What is that over 500 million records? Right, so you are running a check against a database with over 500 million records of which maybe what 20% can POSSIBLY be used?

Something wrong there.

[MelissaWV]

This is a pretty normal application I get. About 95% of the apps are virtually identical to this one... Failure to even read the job listing and provide the information I ask for. There is a reason these people are out of work. They can't follow simple instructions.


You got that resume because your job description includes the word "handyman." It's really not that difficult to figure out. Even though it was only a *SMALL* part of your job description, what the person who saw this was likely thinking was "okay, well, the animal part is obviously something they train for on the job; it even says so, and I am a great handyman, so I'm partially qualified, so I'll send in my resume." It's more like a lottery. You're offering, eventually, $50/hour and you express your intent to provide much of the animal-related training. They threw their generic resume at you in the hope that no one else more qualified than they are catches your eye, and they at least make it to the interview process.

The fact that he missed the reading comprehension requirement is not evident from the resume (did he include a cover letter?), but what I do see is that he also has experience driving a truck. He fits SOME of your criteria, so he submitted his half-assed resume.

Frankly, it looked like a half-assed job listing :( No offense intended, but you opened yourself up for the type of response you got.

* * *

Yes, Virginia, there are jobs out there. Most of them are pretty specialized at this point, and you need to tailor yourself to the position you are best suited for. There will always be demand for certain fields, and medical jobs are out there in huge numbers. Personally, my boss is having an incredibly hard time hiring a co-worker for me, since no one can pass the proofreading test with even a 50% :( It bites.

[Icymudpuppy]

Frankly, it looked like a half-assed job listing :( No offense intended, but you opened yourself up for the type of response you got.


I didn't give the full job description here.

This was his entire application, and like 95% of others. NO COVERLETTER! Of The few who do submit a cover letter most do not address my request, but just a generic cover letter.

Those who do follow the directions are invited for an interview. I give a story problem test of math skills related to materials use, and figuring sales taxes at the interview, and even with a calculator, most of the interviewees fail dismally. I'll teach them skills related to the job, but I'm not going to teach them math that they should have learned in Grammar school.

[Working Poor]

So does anyone here have an e-verify account that can tell us what kind of information is given?

[MelissaWV]

I didn't give the full job description here.

This was his entire application, and like 95% of others. NO COVERLETTER! Of The few who do submit a cover letter most do not address my request, but just a generic cover letter.

Those who do follow the directions are invited for an interview. I give a story problem test of math skills related to materials use, and figuring sales taxes at the interview, and even with a calculator, most of the interviewees fail dismally. I'll teach them skills related to the job, but I'm not going to teach them math that they should have learned in Grammar school.

I commend you actually having a skills test (most jobs don't seem to have one, and depend far too much on whoever's doing the interviewing). My problem with the job listing, though, was not that it asked for too little... but too much. If you have "handyman" on there, then the thinking is giong to be that if you have "handyman" skills and can drive a truck, you can just go through the training and do the job you advertised. This guy, among the five or six things we learn about him, can operate a saw and a truck ;) I am willing to bet he crossed his fingers and hoped to God you just hadn't had any other applicants who could do those two amazing things.

The cover letter thing is a no-brainer. You specifically asked for one.

[Met Income]

Why does anyone have the authority to prevent a mutual exchange of labor and compensation between two parties? From where did you derive that authority?

[romacox]

So does anyone here have an e-verify account that can tell us what kind of information is given?

Try this site: http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1185221678150.shtm

[romacox]

Doctors and Nurses form India and other countries are being recruited and given work visas to fill U.S. medical jobs. They will not complain so much about the Health-care bill for fear of being deported...more complaint than the Americans.
http://www.workpermit.com/us/medical_nurses.htm

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st304?pg=7

I applied for illegal alien status so that I could vote 5 times to your one vote. Just kidding but don't think it is not being done. http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

[Met Income]

Doctors and Nurses form India and other countries are being recruited and given work visas to fill U.S. medical jobs. They will not complain so much about the Health-care bill for fear of being deported...more complaint than the Americans.
http://www.workpermit.com/us/medical_nurses.htm

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st304?pg=7

I applied for illegal alien status so that I could vote 5 times to your one vote. Just kidding but don't think it is not being done. http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

This is a problem with the welfare state, not immigration. Immigration is not inherently immoral, the welfare state is.

[chudrockz]

I have such a hard time finding qualified employees, I really don't care if they are from Alpha-Centauri.

Let employers find willing and able employees regardless of where they come from.

Too late, man. The last starfighter, is dead.

:)

[Icymudpuppy]

I commend you actually having a skills test (most jobs don't seem to have one, and depend far too much on whoever's doing the interviewing). My problem with the job listing, though, was not that it asked for too little... but too much. If you have "handyman" on there, then the thinking is giong to be that if you have "handyman" skills and can drive a truck, you can just go through the training and do the job you advertised. This guy, among the five or six things we learn about him, can operate a saw and a truck ;) I am willing to bet he crossed his fingers and hoped to God you just hadn't had any other applicants who could do those two amazing things.

The cover letter thing is a no-brainer. You specifically asked for one.

I think the majority of my applicants are just applying to satisfy the requirements to maintain their unemployment benefits. Why train for 2-4 weeks at $10/hour when you can collect $15/hour on unemployment.

[MelissaWV]

I think the majority of my applicants are just applying to satisfy the requirements to maintain their unemployment benefits. Why train for 2-4 weeks at $10/hour when you can collect $15/hour on unemployment.

You made my Battleship so depressed, it sank itself :(

[angelatc]

I didn't give the full job description here.

This was his entire application, and like 95% of others. NO COVERLETTER! Of The few who do submit a cover letter most do not address my request, but just a generic cover letter.

Those who do follow the directions are invited for an interview. I give a story problem test of math skills related to materials use, and figuring sales taxes at the interview, and even with a calculator, most of the interviewees fail dismally. I'll teach them skills related to the job, but I'm not going to teach them math that they should have learned in Grammar school.

You're offering $10 an hour to start. You're just not going to get a lot of deep thinkers for that. I've worked with service technicians in several of my jobs, and we routinely train the new guys to fill out the paperwork, including the proper calculation of sales tax. It takes about a day. Sometimes two, if the state is one that doesn't tax labor.

And not everybody wants to run their own business. Promising eventual independence seems like a great deal to you, but not everybody wants that responsibility, and those that do probably don't actually need you to get them started.

I worked for an electrical firm during the boom, and they hired helpers who didn't know a wire nut from a wing nut. Some of them took the company up on the offer to attend school and move up in the ranks, but others were quite content to live their lives as helpers.

So I stand by my original contention. If you can't find qualified labor in this economy, you need to step back and look at your requirements, because something is wrong.

[angelatc]

I think the majority of my applicants are just applying to satisfy the requirements to maintain their unemployment benefits. Why train for 2-4 weeks at $10/hour when you can collect $15/hour on unemployment.

LIke I said - you're not paying enough to attract applicants.

Plus the tone of your letter would turn some people off. I remember not applying for an accounting job once because the owner was so aggressive. Even though I knew that I could have the guy lapping out of my hand with a cover letter that addressed his needs, I had no real desire to. Coming out with a "Prove you're not stupid and I might talk to you!" puts people on the defensive immediately.

[romacox]

This is a problem with the welfare state, not immigration. Immigration is not inherently immoral, the welfare state is.

I agree. I like hieing immigrants, but I also do not wish to support Greenspan's goal to lower wages which is destroying the middle class all over the world, and making slaves of them.
see documentation at this link
http://www.newswithviews.com/Cutler/michael176.htm

[LibForestPaul]

You got that resume because your job description includes the word "handyman." It's really not that difficult to figure out. Even though it was only a *SMALL* part of your job description, what the person who saw this was likely thinking was "okay, well, the animal part is obviously something they train for on the job; it even says so, and I am a great handyman, so I'm partially qualified, so I'll send in my resume." It's more like a lottery. You're offering, eventually, $50/hour and you express your intent to provide much of the animal-related training. They threw their generic resume at you in the hope that no one else more qualified than they are catches your eye, and they at least make it to the interview process.

The fact that he missed the reading comprehension requirement is not evident from the resume (did he include a cover letter?), but what I do see is that he also has experience driving a truck. He fits SOME of your criteria, so he submitted his half-assed resume.

Frankly, it looked like a half-assed job listing :( No offense intended, but you opened yourself up for the type of response you got.

* * *

Yes, Virginia, there are jobs out there. Most of them are pretty specialized at this point, and you need to tailor yourself to the position you are best suited for. There will always be demand for certain fields, and medical jobs are out there in huge numbers. Personally, my boss is having an incredibly hard time hiring a co-worker for me, since no one can pass the proofreading test with even a 50% :( It bites.

I disagree. That listing is quite specific. He needs a job and is fishing. His resume is crap. He didn't even try.

For the record, I have over 10 versions of my resume (if not more), and EVERY company gets a cover letter (tailored, though brief) pointing to specifics in my resume. Versions is moving different accomplishments in or out depending on the specifics of the want ad. I am stunned that he managed people. How?

[Chaohinon]

I am for prosecuting illegal employers.The government does everything it can to make "legitimate" employment impossible. It's not even remotely fair to target illegals and their employers when both do so only out of fiscal desperation :mad:

[LibForestPaul]

Voluntary:

federal government contractors and subcontractors will be required to begin using the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services’ E-Verify system starting Jan. 15, 2009 (now 5/21/09),


3. The department must follow the instructions of the EEV specialist. The most common
E-Verify results and the actions that will likely be required of the department are as follows:
● Authorized Employment: If the employee is authorized to work in the United States, the
department will be informed through an FYI message from the EEV Tool in HR Central. As a
courtesy, please inform the employee of the successful resolution.
● Tentative Nonconfirmation: If the Social Security Administration and/or the Department of
Homeland Security require further information from the employee, the EEV Specialist will
receive a “Tentative Nonconfirmation” notice from the U.S. Government. At this time, the EEV
Specialist will instruct the department to inform the employee that he/she has 72 hours to
physically report to the EEV Specialist in OHR/ Staffing Programs. The department must
inform the employee the same day the instructions are received from the EEV Specialist. No
department should take any further action on its own. The EEV Specialist will initiate any further
actions.
o Instructions to an employee to report to the EEV Specialist for follow up are available. (See
below.)
o It is possible that 10-20 percent of new employees will receive a “Tentative
Nonconfirmation” status. Always assume an employee with a “Tentative Nonconfirmation” is
authorized to work in the United States. The hiring unit should not take any action on its own
based on the results or progress of an EEV check. Training and work assignments must
proceed normally.
o When the employee physically reports to the EEV Specialist, he/she must choose whether to
contest the “Tentative Nonconfirmation” status. If the employee chooses to contest this
status, he/she will be referred to the appropriate agency for follow-up and must report to the
agency within eight business days. As the employee interacts with the Federal agency, the
EEV Specialist will instruct the department to take any necessary additional actions through
“FYI” messages from the EEV Tool in the HR Central inbox, through email, or by telephone.
If the employee declines to contest a “Tentative Nonconfirmation” or fails to report to the
appropriate agency within eight business days, the EEV Specialist will investigate and take
steps to terminate employment or place the employee in leave status. See When Eligibility is
Not Verified, Place Employee in Leave Status or Terminate Employment for more
information.




DHS Referral indicates that a Customer Processing System (CPS) may not be able to resolve the request through automated checks of local database. In such case, the request is referred to DHS Immigration Status Verifier (ISV) for special verification. ISV takes 1-3 days to research and resolve the case. The user will have to periodically poll to pick up status on the case.



: What happens if you experience a privacy or security incident?

E-Verify has a formal security and privacy incident response plan designed to ensure that incidents are reported, appropriately handled and responded to in a timely fashion to minimize resultant impacts. E-Verify will assess the privacy risk posed by an incident, the appropriateness of notifying affected individuals, and the utility of offering support, such as credit report monitoring, on a case-by-case basis. The incident response plan for E-Verify aligns with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Privacy Incident Handling Guidance (PIHG) which can be found in the "Related Links" section of the E-Verify Q&A main page.

[MelissaWV]

I disagree. That listing is quite specific. He needs a job and is fishing. His resume is crap. He didn't even try.

For the record, I have over 10 versions of my resume (if not more), and EVERY company gets a cover letter (tailored, though brief) pointing to specifics in my resume. Versions is moving different accomplishments in or out depending on the specifics of the want ad. I am stunned that he managed people. How?


Here is my list of qualifications I expect you to already have.
No Claustrophobia,
No aversion to bad smells or dirty conditions.
No Fear of heights.
No Fear of wild Animals.
No Aversion to Euthanasia.
Ability to identify and solve problems Practically.
Customer service skills for dealing with distraught homeowners.
Ability to organize a work schedule using a day planner or electronic scheduler.
Ability to do basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division story problem Arithmetic using a calculator.
Reading and comprehension...Please customize your coverletter to explain why you are interested in this position and how you fit with or will learn the desired skill set.
No Educational Requirement, entry level position

So, the applicant probably breezed through the first five, since they're pretty vague and can apply to a huge segment of the population. The next one doesn't make much sense, but it's one of those vague things everyone puts on their resume/job listing (great problem-solver!). Customer service skills... yep. Most people have dealt with customers. Most people can use a planner/calendar. I have no idea what a "story problem" is, but most people credit themselves with the ability to do basic math. The applicant obviously skipped that "reading comprehension" part. No education required... at all.

Basically, the "requirements" for this job (other than reading it through and including the cover letter) cover a really huge segment of the population. It's not very specific. The training portion makes it sound like most of the learning is done on-the-job (there is even a paid training period). Of course, the "what I pay" makes it seem like you're only making $10 no matter what (unless that "you could make up to $50" blurb is included). It depends on how it was worded on the actual job listing.

After the post you quoted, though, I did agree with the poster of the job and accompanying resume that a skills test is to be commended. That's really the only way you're going to tell if someone's qualified. A resume's a wonderful introduction, but do you really need a "gotcha" line hidden in there that might disqualify the best squirrel-catcher you've ever met? More information about the job, and fewer vague things, might help attract the right kind of candidate.

Also, I have no idea what that sentence (bolded) in your post means.

[Met Income]

I agree. I like hieing immigrants, but I also do not wish to support Greenspan's goal to lower wages which is destroying the middle class all over the world, and making slaves of them.
see documentation at this link
http://www.newswithviews.com/Cutler/michael176.htm

Lower wages is a good thing. The computer/tech industry has deflation in its products - that industry isn't falling apart.

Regardless, you have no right to restrict a mutual agreement of labor. It has nothing to do with you. Worry about yourself.

[LibForestPaul]

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_pia_cis_vis_update_ver.pdf


The Verification Division of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)
operates the Verification Information System (VIS). VIS is a composite information system
incorporating data from various Department of Homeland Security (DHS) databases. It is the
underlying information technology that provides immigration status verification for 1) benefits
determinations through the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program for
government benefits and 2) verification of employment authorization for newly hired employees
through the E-Verify program.

Retention
This PIA clarifies that among the information retained in VIS is information on U.S.
citizens. VIS currently retains data for five (5) years. USCIS will be submitting an amendment to
the NARA schedule which will increase the time records are stored and retained in the VIS
Repository to ten (10) years, from the date of the completion of the verification. This period is
based on the statute of limitations for most types of misuse or fraud possible using VIS (under 18
U.S.C. § 3291, the statute of limitations for false statements or misuse regarding passports,
citizenship or naturalization documents).
Internal Sharing and Disclosure
The internal sharing of VIS information with other components of DHS has not changed.
VIS information is shared with Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and Federal
Protective Services (FPS). Both TSA and FPS have signed MOUs to participate in the SAVE Program
and access VIS. If in the future any other component participates in SAVE, it would be
documented in an updated PIA and would be controlled by a MOU. The access to RTA data does
not provide new access to data, only more timely access, consequently ensuring greater accuracy
of the information and allowing for verifications to be made using the most up-to-date
information.
External Sharing and Disclosure
The accompanying SORN removes routine use L for the sharing for VIS information “To
Federal and foreign government intelligence or counterterrorism agencies (foreign counterterrorism agencies??? or NGO counterterrorism agencies???) when DHS reasonably
believes there to be a threat or potential threat to national or international security for which the
information may be useful in countering the threat or potential threat, when DHS reasonably
believes such use is to assist in anti-terrorism efforts, and disclosure is appropriate to the proper
performance of the official duties of the person making the disclosure” It was determined that this
routine use exceeded the legal authority of VIS and that the other routine uses adequately covered
any external sharing. In all other ways, external sharing and disclosure remains consistent with
Section 5.0 of the April 1, 2007 VIS PIA and the SORN. Notice has been provided for all external
sharing and disclosures through previous SORNs and PIAs. E-Verify will continue to provide only
minimal information to the employer beyond whether the employee is employment eligible or
not. The data sets from the other systems of records will not be disclosed, but rather assist the
system or the ISV to make a determination about the individual.

[romacox]

The government does everything it can to make "legitimate" employment impossible. It's not even remotely fair to target illegals and their employers when both do so only out of fiscal desperation :mad:

A large international window supplier offered us 1000.00 to hire two illegal companies under us as subcontractors. We refused knowing that they would then have us under their thumb and it would not be in the best interest of our Country. We then lost the work we had been doing for eight years,

Large corporations are requiring (as a prerequisite of being hired). that small companies purchase workman's comp. insurance on themselves, which is the worst insurance available, and costly. We are covered by a good medical insurance, and have chosen to take workman's comp exempt instead.

What I am telling everyone is that international corporations are pressuring us small companies to hire illegals over you, the American worker, and punish us for not doing so. We had a friend who did as asked, and when he later displeased them, they turned him in to workman's Comp office. It cost him 3 months in jail, and 20,000 dollars. The Window supplier got of scott free.

Why am I whistle blowing? We use to feed the world, now we are dependent on the world to feed us contaminated food. The farmers warned us over 20 years ago, and we did not listen. If we do not wake up to what is happening here we will find ourselves indentured slaves to those 1% who control the Federal Reserve and world banks.

This link explains more on that matter. Be sure to watch the mentioned video there http://www.newswithviews.com/Cutler/michael176.htm

[Carson]

Thanks you romacox for being the way you are.

[Chaohinon]

A large international window supplier offered us 1000.00 to hire two illegal companies under us as subcontractors. We refused knowing that they would then have us under their thumb and it would not be in the best interest of our Country. We then lost the work we had been doing for eight years,

Large corporations are requiring (as a prerequisite of being hired). that small companies purchase workman's comp. insurance on themselves, which is the worst insurance available, and costly. We are covered by a good medical insurance, and have chosen to take workman's comp exempt instead.

What I am telling everyone is that international corporations are pressuring us small companies to hire illegals over you, the American worker, and punish us for not doing so. We had a friend who did as asked, and when he later displeased them, they turned him in to workman's Comp office. It cost him 3 months in jail, and 20,000 dollars. The Window supplier got of scott free.

Why am I whistle blowing? We use to feed the world, now we are dependent on the world to feed us contaminated food. The farmers warned us over 20 years ago, and we did not listen. If we do not wake up to what is happening here we will find ourselves indentured slaves to those 1% who control the Federal Reserve and world banks.

This link explains more on that matter. Be sure to watch the mentioned video there http://www.newswithviews.com/Cutler/michael176.htmI sympathize with your plight, but there's still a major disconnect here.

Well-connected corporations are using the force of law to subvert your right to do business as you wish, and so the solution is use the force of law to stop businesses from hiring who they please? Wtfman.