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Baptist
12-27-2009, 11:46 PM
Something smells fishy here.
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

[edit] now it's reported that another man filmed the entire flight, including the "detonation."
http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/80201152.html

[edit] Videos
YouTube - Evidence Clearly Indicates Staged Attack on Detroit Flight! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv2eqTQsy7k&feature=player_embedded)

YouTube - 'Caught My Curiosity' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFwSH-9Dqgk&feature=player_embedded)

MyLibertyStuff
12-28-2009, 12:15 AM
everything smells fishy

TheConstitutionLives
12-28-2009, 01:45 AM
Something smells fishy here.
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

relax, Alex.

BlackTerrel
12-28-2009, 02:27 AM
Something smells fishy here.
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html

If this was "Western Intelligence" wouldn't it be easier to make the man a fake passport rather than draw suspicion this way?

Reason
12-28-2009, 02:38 AM
"About an hour after landing, Haskell said he saw another man being taken into custody. But a spokeswoman from the FBI in Detroit said Mutallab was the only person taken into custody. "

revolutionary8
12-28-2009, 02:40 AM
relax, Alex.

take your subsidized prozac/stiffdickdrug TCL, and stop messing with the children.
Kay?
In case you wonder, I'm as serious as a "possum" playing dead.;)

Baptist
12-28-2009, 11:10 AM
Now it's reported that another man filmed the entire flight.
http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/80201152.html

RM918
12-28-2009, 11:16 AM
Owning a suit makes you automatically CIA, now? I always knew something was fishy about ZZ Top.

eOs
12-28-2009, 12:03 PM
http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=20475&p=136738#p136738

THIS GUY LIVED IN A 5 MILLION DOLLAR FLAT IN LONDON....BREEDING GROUND FOR MALCONTENT AND TERRORISM. /sarcasm

From "Investigative Leads" found here at NewWorldOrderReport.com:



Christmas Bomber False Flag?

When one examines the official version, more problems become apparent. Initial reports stated that the man was on the government's "No-Fly List". This raised the obvious question of how he was even able to make it aboard the airplane. The stories were quickly changed to state that, while he was in some mysterious "law enforcement-intelligence database", he was not on the No-Fly List.
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/explosives ... id=9423871

According to the feds, the suspect says that the explosive device he used was acquired in Yemen. Interestingly, Anwar Al-Awlaki ran away to Yemen. He was an extreme Islamic preacher and a likely US Intelligence "handler" who had connections to the 9/11 "hijackers", 7/7 "bombers", Fort Dix "terrorist plotters", Toronto 18 "terrorist plotters", and the Fort Hood "shooter". Al-Awlaki is said to have been killed in a recent raid by the Yemeni security forces, but it is very possible that his role as a "handler" was becoming to obvious, and that his "death" was really just a retirement. Is it possible that Al-Awlaki provided this new "terrorist" with explosives?

Another issue is the FBI's presence at the airport when the plane landed:

Federal Bureau of Investigation Special Agent Sandra R. Berchtold from the Detroit office confirmed that the FBI was at the airport, but she would not comment further.
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/explosives ... 871&page=2

If all authorities knew was that there were indications of a "fire" on the plane, then why was the FBI already set-up at the airport? From the above article excerpt, you can see that they're quite tight-lipped about it, so don't bother asking them.

The government has ignored these problems, and instead has opted to conclusively state that the attack was planned by "Al Qaeda in Yemen".
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest ... id=9426085

They've also gone into detail about the explosives, which turn out to have been military:

Investigators say the suspect had more than 80 grams of PETN, a compound related to nitro-glycerin used by the military.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest ... id=9426085

How "Al Qaeda of Yemen" got their hands on military explosives is anyone's guess. Personally, I would assert that "Al Qaeda of Yemen" is little more than an extension of the military and the intelligence services (CIA).

Interestingly, it turns out that the bomber is the son of a wealthy banker, who is now burying him in the press as a "radical" and a "terrorist".
http://www.huliq.com/3257/89958/nigeria ... 3-incident

The heroic passenger who subdued the bomber turns out to be a "video director/producer" from Amsterdam. Certainly a professional in the art of stagery/drama, right?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... on_no.html



We're left with quite a few questions:

--Why did different news services provide different names for the suspect?

--Why did initial reports state that the suspect was on the No-Fly List?

--Why was the suspect on a "terror" watch list?

--Why was the FBI waiting at the airport when the plane landed and why are it's officials being so tight-lipped about this fact?

--What contact, if any, did the suspect have with Anwar Al-Awlaki?

--What was the purpose of the suspect's 11-day trip to Houston, Texas during August 2008? What did he do on this trip?

--Why was his father concerned that his son had become radicalized? Was it his warning, six months before, that put the suspect on the terror list?

--How did the suspect obtain military explosives?

--Is his father connected through the banks to the aristocracy, secret societies, or intelligence community?

--Was there more to Jasper Schuringa's act of heroism than we've been told? What is his history as a video director/producer? Why does his photograph look fake?



QUOTE
UCL today confirmed that a 23-year-old called Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab studied at the university from 2005 to 2008.

A UCL spokesman said: “Media outlets are suggesting several different names for the man arrested in connection with an attempted act of terrorism on Northwest Airlines Flight 253 in the early hours of December 26th.

“UCL can confirm that a student by the name of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was enrolled on a Mechanical Engineering course at the institution between September 2005 and June 2008.

“However, it must be stressed that the university has no evidence that this is the same person currently being referred to in the media.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 968320.ece



This advertisement for University College London states:


QUOTE
Course advisors include Met Police, BTP, SOCA, ACPO, SO15, MI6, MoD, NaCTSO, and RUSI.

http://courses-careers.com/postgraduate ... orism.html



Certainly, British Intelligence is very present there.

And get a load of who the suspect's father is:



QUOTE
Members of a wealthy Nigerian family have confirmed to journalists that he is the son of the former chairman of First Bank of Nigeria, the BBC's Caroline Duffield reports from Lagos.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8430699.stm

And here's what we may find on the official CRIMINAL COMPLAINT of the United States District Court (at page 5 of this PDF) :


QUOTE

"One flight attendant stated that she asked ABDULMUTALLAB what he had in his pocket, and he replied "explosive device".
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/image ... idavit.pdf



Ah - if only all terrorists were that honest and helpful ...

Check this out -- detailed information about the flight from December 23 to today, but no mention of the incident. Not even any mention of any delay!

http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSta ... Number=252

In case anything happens to that SMOKING GUN page, here are some screen-caps:
http://i48.tinypic.com/t528gz.pn​g
http://i45.tinypic.com/2v2v7mf.p​ng

After the drama, none of the three return flights of Northwest Air from Detroit to Amsterdam was cancelled. Of the two flights that would have been affected by Flight 253, one arrived back in Amsterdam only an hour late, and the other was early.

INFO FROM NORTHWEST AIRLINES TIMETABLES for Dec 17 thru Jan 4

Amsterdam to Detroit daily flights
flight 253 arriving at 11:40 AM uses ‘A333’
flight 243 arriving at 1:30 PM uses ‘A332’
flight 249 arriving at 5:35 PM uses ‘A333’

Detroit to Amsterdam daily flights
flight 252 departing at 4:00 PM uses ‘A332’
flight 242 departing at 5:55 PM uses ‘A333’
flight 248 departing at 9:55 PM uses ‘A333’

INFO FROM PARTNER KLM FLIGHT STATUS PAGE for arrivals on Dec 26

NW252 scheduled departure 16:00 actual departure 18:17 on Dec 25
Scheduled arrival 05:55 actual arrival 08:42 on Dec 26
Shown as A332 so by deduction usually uses the same plane as flight 243 and may not have been affected by flight 253. It arrived in Amsterdam about 3 hrs late.

NW242 scheduled departure 17:55 actual departure 19:19 on Dec 25
Scheduled arrival 07:55 actual arrival 09:05 on Dec 26
Shown as A333 so by deduction usually uses the same plane as flight 253. It arrived in Amsterdam only about 1 hour late.

NW248 scheduled departure 21:55 actual departure 21:47 on Dec 25
Scheduled arrival 11:40 actual arrival 11:37 on Dec 26
Shown as A333 so by deduction usually uses the same plane as flight 249. It arrived in Amsterdam early.

check this out:
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index ... ard_n.html



QUOTE
An Indian man in a nicely dressed suit around age 50 approached the check in counter with the terrorist and said "This man needs to get on this flight and he has no passport." The two of them were an odd pair as the terrorist is a short, black man that looked like he was very poor and looks around age 17(Although I think he is 23 he doesn't look it). It did not cross my mind that they were terrorists, only that the two looked weird together. The ticket taker said "you can't board without a passport". The Indian man then replied, "He is from Sudan, we do this all the time". I can only take from this to mean that it is difficult to get passports from Sudan and this was some sort of sympathy ploy. The ticket taker then said "You will have to talk to my manager", and sent the two down a hallway. I never saw the Indian man again as he wasn't on the flight. It was also weird that the terrorist never said a word in this exchange. Anyway, somehow, the terrorist still made it onto the plane. I am not sure if it was a bribe or just sympathy from the security manager.



Who was this mysterious "suit" and why is this detail not being scrutinized by the major newsmedia organizations?

Notable things:
-Mutallab did not have documentation that could get him onto the plane.
-A mysterious man in a nice suit suddenly appeared and facilitated his entry.
-Mutallab didn't look his age at all.
-There was a second Indian man arrested at the airport.
-Passengers were held on the plane 20 minutes after it landed.

Our perp:
-Indian
-Around 50 years old
-Sharply dressed, Obviously wealthy

Not much to go on, but if this story is real, we have a suspect for the 'handler'.



__________________________________________________ ___________




Justin Raimondo has been speculating that this was a false flag. Something's definitley not right here..

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009 ... r-mystery/

The Lap Bomber Mystery

A case that just gets curiouser and curiouser
by Justin Raimondo, December 28, 2009

It just wouldn’t be Christmas in the age of terror if we didn’t have a visitation, ostensibly from al-Qaeda, now would it? ‘Tis the season, and all that. Recall Richard Reid, the "shoe bomber," arrested on December 22, 2001, for trying to blow up American Airlines flight 63, coming into Miami from Paris. As in the current case involving one Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab, a 23-year-old Nigerian, the explosive used was PETN, also known as pentaerythritol: Reid, like Umar, was subdued by passengers and airline attendants, and, to add yet another touch of déjà vu, Reid’s stunt led to the imposition of the take-off-your-shoes rule at airport security, just as Umar’s midair antics have now inspired the Transportation Safety Authority to inaugurate a spate of new regulations: nothing in your lap, please, and no getting up from your seat for a solid hour before landing.

Also please note the timing: the Reid incident occurred at a volatile moment, right after the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and just as the Bush administration was ramping up to invade both Afghanistan and Iraq. Umar, the lap bomber – so called because he apparently had his explosive device hidden in his pants – also leaps onto the international stage at a sensitive time, when President Obama is launching a major offensive in Afghanistan and the US has "assisted" Yemen in its air strikes on the alleged al-Qaeda stronghold in that country – where Umar, we’re told, received "training" and the actual explosive device.

Yes, the parallels are certainly eerie – but so what? After all, these terrorists are seemingly a simple-minded lot, if the behavior and demeanor of, say, Richard Reid is any indication. How many different explosive substances are available for such a "job," and, at any rate, what else can one expect from the TSA in response except a bunch of useless and needlessly intrusive regulations that have little relevance to what happened? And, of course, the US, it seems, is always launching some new attack or military campaign, somewhere, so the timing is pure chance. Right?

What’s more, the pattern fails when we take into account our own mindset, eight years after the Shoe-na’bomber affair: back then, we were all too frightened out of our wits to really question anything the government told us, and the news media reported. We took it all at face value, and trusted in the gods that we wouldn’t all be blown to smithereens in the next attack, which – for all we knew – could have come at any time.

Eight years later, our mental processes have been quickened, through bitter experience, and a growing cynicism which leads us to notice – and question – several seeming anomalies, such as: why, when Umar’s own father – a prominent banker – contacted the US embassy, and met with the CIA as well as the Nigerian intelligence agency, and warned them his son might pose a danger, was Umar allowed on a plane entering the US? Authorities tell us that he was in a database, consisting of over half a million people, said to pose a risk, but not on the "no fly" list, in spite of his own father’s warning.

How could this happen? Inquiring minds want to know.

Another break in the Shoe’na-bomber pattern is Umar himself, whose life of wealth and privilege stands in stark contrast to Reid’s. While Reid was the poor son of a jailbird, a nobody with an apparently limited mental capacity, Umar is the son of Dr. Umaru Mutallab, former economics minister in the Nigerian government and one of the country’s most prominent bankers: schooled at the exclusive British International School in Lome, Togo, and an aspiring mechanical engineer, he had a bright future ahead of him, and if any single word could be used to characterize his life prior to the Christmas day incident, it would be access.

Access not only to the best schools and opportunities, and to his posh London digs, but also access to planes without the proper documents, as one Kurt Haskell, who was on the same flight with Umar, testifies:

“I was on this flight today and am thankful to be alive. My wife and I were returning from an African safari and had this connecting flight through Amsterdam. I sat in row 27, which was 7 rows behind the terrorist. I got to see the whole thing take place and it was very scary. Thanks to a few quick acting people I am still alive today.

"…I was next to the terrorist when he checked in at the Amsterdam airport early on Christmas. My wife and I were playing cards directly in front of the check in counter. This is what I saw (and I relayed this to the FBI when we were held in customs):

"An Indian man in a nicely dressed suit around age 50 approached the check in counter with the terrorist and said ‘This man needs to get on this flight and he has no passport.’ The two of them were an odd pair as the terrorist is a short, black man that looked like he was very poor and looks around age 17(Although I think he is 23 he doesn’t look it). It did not cross my mind that they were terrorists, only that the two looked weird together. The ticket taker said ‘you can’t board without a passport.’ The Indian man then replied, ‘He is from Sudan, we do this all the time.’. I can only take from this to mean that it is difficult to get passports from Sudan and this was some sort of sympathy ploy. The ticket taker then said ‘You will have to talk to my manager,’ and sent the two down a hallway. I never saw the Indian man again as he wasn’t on the flight. It was also weird that the terrorist never said a word in this exchange. Anyway, somehow, the terrorist still made it onto the plane. I am not sure if it was a bribe or just sympathy from the security manager."

This goes way beyond weird, all the way to sinister. Perhaps we should take Janet Napolitano’s assurance that “right now we have no indication that it is part of anything larger” with a gargantuan grain of salt. Not only that, but maybe we should simply make a new rule, as follows: anything Madame Napolitano or any government official says about this or any other similar incident should be considered, at the outset, an outright lie. Assuming deception as the default, we might be better off believing the exact opposite. This argument is especially compelling in light of what Mr. Haskell has to say about the aftermath of the Christmas bomb attempt:

"FBI also arrested a different Indian man while we were held in customs after a bomb sniffing dog detected a bomb in his carry on bag and he was searched after we landed. This was later confirmed while we were in customs when an FBI agent said to us ‘You are being moved to another area because this area is not safe. Read between the lines. Some of you saw what just happened.’(The arrest of the other Indian man). I am not sure why this hasn’t made it into any news story, but I stood about 15-20 feet away from the other Indian man when he was cuffed and arrested after his search."

Why isn’t the "mainstream" media reporting this? Well, perhaps they just don’t know about it: or it could be they do know and have been asked to keep a lid on it by the authorities, not the first time such a thing has happened when it comes to the dissemination of "sensitive" information.

In any case, given the veracity of Haskell’s account, it is clear that, contrary to news reports, Umar was no "lone nut," but had at least one accomplice with him on board the plane. Furthermore, both of his accomplices – the one who got him on the plane without a passport, and the one nabbed by the bomb-sniffing dog – may have been Indians.

What India has to do with all this is sheer speculation. While India’s foreign intelligence service, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), stands accused by Pakistanis of being behind much of the sectarian strife that riles the region, it’s unclear – to me, at least – what interest they would have in stirring the pot in faraway Yemen, the supposed source of the plot. If, however, it should suddenly be discovered that the "real" source of all this lies in the tribal regions of Pakistan, where Washington insists Osama bin Laden & Co. have set up their world headquarters, the Indian connection would make sense.

Haskell concludes his account as follows:

"What also didn’t make the news is that we were held on the plane for 20 minutes after it landed! A bomb could have gone off then. This wasn’t too smart of security to not let us off the plane immediately.

"You can see what time I am writing this as I am having a hard time sleeping tonight. Just thought some of you would like to know what I saw, Merry Christmas."

A telling note of authenticity there: clueless bureaucrats keep him on a plane that might be about to explode, and a Merry Christmas to all – and to all a good night!

No wonder the poor guy couldn’t sleep. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn’t sleep for a week. And if, somehow, I did manage to take a cat nap or two, I’d dream of Umar being led onto the plane, passport-less, escorted by his mysterious helpers, including several demonic figures lurking in the background, chortling and rubbing their hands together in gleeful anticipation.

We are asked to believe that a highly privileged young man, with everything to live for, was suddenly seized with a desire to commit suicide as an act of jihad: that he disappeared from his life of ease, on a street lined with Mercedes Benzes and Ferraris, in a fashionable district of London, and traveled to Yemen, where he received what may have been a defective bomb, which was sewn into his underwear by his jihadist trainers. This bomb then went undetected in Amsterdam airport, where the security arrangements are said to be tight (and a personal interview is conducted), and where he was let on a plane headed for the US in spite of explicit warnings given by his own father.

I’m not buying it, and, furthermore, in the context of Haskell’s testimony, another narrative seems just as likely: that this was a staged incident, a false flag operation, launched by those who have everything to gain by ramping up the atmosphere of hysteria and fear that regularly precedes America’s wars. This – admittedly speculative – scenario, of which I am equally skeptical, is buttressed, however, by the testimony of Jasper Schuringa – the passenger who leapt out of his seat on the other side of the plane, put out the fire, and secured Umar is a headlock – who says of the alleged terrorist:

“He was shaking. He didn’t resist anything. It’s just hard to believe that he was trying to blow up this plane. He was in a trance. He was very afraid.”

He didn’t resist? This hardly seems like the behavior one might expect of some fanatic jihadist bent on destruction and meeting those virgins in the afterlife.

The simplistic narrative that took shape as the news broke is already beginning to break up into something a bit more complicated, as additional information comes out, including this brief news item that just came across the wires:

"A passenger aboard the same Northwest Airlines flight that was attacked on Christmas Day was taken into custody here Sunday after becoming verbally disruptive upon landing, officials said.

"A law enforcement official said the man was Nigerian and had locked himself in the airliner’s bathroom. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.

"Delta Air Lines spokeswoman Susan Elliott said crew members requested that security remove the man from Flight 253 after he became disruptive. The remaining 255 passengers got off safely, she said.

"Airport spokesman Scott Wintner said it was the same flight on which a man tried to set off an explosive on Christmas Day.

"’The pilot requested emergency assistance upon arrival,’ he said. Security and airline personnel are on edge since the attempted terror attack on Christmas Day, and the law enforcement official said that lesser incidents had been reported on other flights arriving in Detroit, but the incident with the Nigerian man had sparked the most concern."

Whether Nigerian, or Indian, something is up here, and it seems to have little to do with al-Qaeda, which – breaking its past habit of promptly taking "credit" – has yet to claim responsibility for the attempted attack. More grounds for suspicion: allegations that the Detroit incident was planned and carried out by al-Qaeda in Yemen can be traced back to "IntelCenter," a mysterious private contractor with a dubious reputation [.pdf] (see frames 89-100) that does business with the intelligence community.

Another shoe is bound to drop – the arrest of this other "Nigerian" may be it, along with the surprising news that Detroit, for some reason, seems to be the latest "terrorist" target – and when it does, I’m wondering how much closer to the truth we’ll get. One thing is certain, however, and it is this: look on the pronouncements of government officials with a very jaundiced eye.

Already Joe Lieberman and several Republicans are calling for more preemptive strikes on targets in Yemen, and it’s not hard to see that the US is very close to opening up yet another "front" in our eternal "war on terrorism." Deeper into the quagmire we go – and those demons in my dreamscape are chortling ever louder.

rpfan2008
12-28-2009, 12:17 PM
Why his tongue slipped?

My view:

They knew very well that concerned activists (truthers etc) are going to create a noise about this being an inside job. If the noise becomes too high then they will project you (while they retreat) as loons exaggerating a minor slip of tongue. This way they may be trying to prevent the sheep from investigating further or notice any other scientific/circumstantial evidences.

dannno
12-28-2009, 01:01 PM
Owning a suit makes you automatically CIA, now? I always knew something was fishy about ZZ Top.

ZZ Top has the authority to smuggle a terrrorist onto a plane??

Someone with the authority to smuggle a terrorist onto a plane who also happens to be wearing a suit is likely intelligence. Nobody said anything about the CIA. He could be FBI, private intelligence, CIA, Mossad, MI6, etc..

Dark_Horse_Rider
12-28-2009, 04:36 PM
Obama running damage control on the radio ?

And " truther " Charlie Sheen got arrested for assault with a weapon ?

pacelli
12-28-2009, 05:21 PM
Where is the evidence that the "well dressed" man was of "western" origin? He could have easily been of Southern, Eastern, or Northern origin.

Do you believe the "well dressed" man was of "western" origin because you have evidence to back it up, or do you believe this because you heard it from a news source you trust?

Furthermore, does anything about this issue/false flag operation make a difference in how you live your personal life? If so, what is the personal life solution?

Akus
12-28-2009, 05:28 PM
everything smells fishy

sometime simple hygiene helps:rolleyes:

raiha
12-28-2009, 05:41 PM
I wouldn't sacrifice my groin for the government or for Al Quaeda...not that i have one.
I like the passport story tho'. That'd be cool, him getting on a flight without a passport with the stealthy helpee of Santa's Indian elves.
Anyway, whatever the case, the old rhetoric is back..."they hate us for our freedoms; they hate us for our way of life..."(that's not going to cut it for much longer because their GDP will be higher than yoursLOL)

dannno
12-28-2009, 05:54 PM
Where is the evidence that the "well dressed" man was of "western" origin? He could have easily been of Southern, Eastern, or Northern origin.

Do you believe the "well dressed" man was of "western" origin because you have evidence to back it up, or do you believe this because you heard it from a news source you trust?

Western intelligence.. because they benefit... very simple.. Doesn't matter where he's from, it's the interests he is representing.




Furthermore, does anything about this issue/false flag operation make a difference in how you live your personal life? If so, what is the personal life solution?

Educate the masses to stop falling for these BS terror tactics from the media.

dannno
12-28-2009, 05:55 PM
I wouldn't sacrifice my groin for the government or for Al Quaeda...not that i have one.


So you're a mermaid?

Lovecraftian4Paul
12-28-2009, 05:58 PM
I'm waiting for more information before I make up my mind about this event. They'll have to do better than a "well dressed man" to convince me of state run conspiracy. On the other hand, there's no hard evidence that this was some Al-Qaeda plant and not a lone kook either.

raiha
12-28-2009, 05:59 PM
So you're a mermaid?
All that surfing in my developmental years. You never hear of ladies having groins. I think they are called something more delicate ... but a scaly fish tail will do me for the purposes of this particular conversation. :cool:

dannno
12-28-2009, 06:05 PM
All that surfing in my developmental years. You never hear of ladies having groins. I think they are called something more delicate ... but a scaly fish tail will do me for the purposes of this particular conversation. :cool:

You can still pull your groin (no, not like that ;) I mean the sports injury)

raiha
12-28-2009, 06:35 PM
Groin strain! So we can! Rugby players are generally the ones that have that here. But you are right Danno, if you have groin pain it can often mean ovarian cysts and most men don't have ovaries. I just looked it up. Thanks for enlightening me. :D
Either way, i wouldn't want mine to catch on fire in the process of detonating a device. Why did he not go to the bathroom, take off his jockeys and THEN light a fire? He could have lit a fire with it IN the bathroom!! With the doors locked no-one would have been able to head lock him or extinguish him.
Presumably he had a brain as well as a groin, but evidently not in this instance.
Or indeed, it is a false flag!

Reason
12-28-2009, 08:10 PM
Something smells fishy here.
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_says_at_l.html)

[edit] now it's reported that another man filmed the entire flight, including the "detonation."
http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/80201152.html (http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/80201152.html)

save these pages people

Baptist
12-28-2009, 11:05 PM
To all the naysayers out there who call us kooks... I do not believe that everything is a conspiracy. I don't think that dude in PA who killed sheriffs was a conspiracy. I do not believe that the old dude who shot up the Jew museum was a conspiracy. Stuff happens all the time that I don't think is a conspiracy.

I only think something is up when evidence shows that something is up. I want to know who this guy in the suit was. I want to know where the guy who filmed the whole thing is. I want to know if this "terrorist" who lived in a multi-million dollar house was a double-agent or if he has ever worked for/with western intelligence.

BlackTerrel
12-29-2009, 09:14 PM
ZZ Top has the authority to smuggle a terrrorist onto a plane??

Someone with the authority to smuggle a terrorist onto a plane who also happens to be wearing a suit is likely intelligence. Nobody said anything about the CIA. He could be FBI, private intelligence, CIA, Mossad, MI6, etc..

But it's far more easy to forge a passport (or driver's license) than it is to "smuggle a terrorist onto a plane" isn't it? Why go to all that trouble?

revolutionary8
12-29-2009, 09:58 PM
But it's far more easy to forge a passport (or driver's license) than it is to "smuggle a terrorist onto a plane" isn't it? Why go to all that trouble?

No tracks.

Baptist
12-30-2009, 04:58 AM
Bump. Updated OP with videos.

Reason
12-30-2009, 03:05 PM
//

jmdrake
12-31-2009, 10:20 AM
If this was "Western Intelligence" wouldn't it be easier to make the man a fake passport rather than draw suspicion this way?

Do you think members of Western intelligence are the only ones who can make fake passports? No? Then why would you think this somehow rules out Western Intelligence? Whoever was able to talk someone without a passport onto a plane has the same pull and skill as someone from Western Intelligence, whether he was actually from Western Intel or not. My guess, going by the appearance (Indian looking) is that we are dealing with the Pakistani ISI. They are the ones the CIA used to create Al Qaeda in the first place. Though why Pakistan would still be going along with this now that they are clearly in the crosshairs is beyond me.

As to why any intelligence officer would chose the route that was taken, there's always the chance of the patsy screwing things up. (This patsy didn't seem to bright). Why risk than when you can (apparently) just bluff your way onto the plane?

jmdrake
12-31-2009, 10:22 AM
But it's far more easy to forge a passport (or driver's license) than it is to "smuggle a terrorist onto a plane" isn't it? Why go to all that trouble?

Are you sure it's easier? Have you ever tried it? It's funny that every time something like this happens and the "terrorists" are actually successful (at least in getting on the plane in this case) someone claims it "couldn't be intel" because "it would be easier to do such and such".

UK4Paul
12-31-2009, 11:17 AM
So what agencies have the authority to get someone on a plane with words and no passport?

MelissaWV
12-31-2009, 11:22 AM
So what agencies have the authority to get someone on a plane with words and no passport?

If we're playing conspiracy theories here, anyone if the gate attendant is in on it?

Why Detroit... well maybe that's the gate that their attendant was working. It doesn't make much sense as a target. It's a possibility.

Anyone could try to talk someone onto a plane, also, especially if they know what usually works. I would look back and interview employees to see if there were any inquiries about things like this (hey I have a cousin who's a refugee and he has no visa/passport... what would I have to do to get him on the plane?) or failed attempts recently.

UK4Paul
12-31-2009, 12:11 PM
That makes sense. I thought one of the alphabet agencies could get someone on a plane, but like you said, all you need is one attendant to let him through.

Brian4Liberty
12-31-2009, 12:15 PM
Did anyone see this on Drudge?



Breaking news: The well-dressed man has been identified. Joe Biden has come forward to say that he had no idea that the refugee was really a terrorist. More details to come...

I didn't. ;)

jmdrake
12-31-2009, 12:44 PM
If we're playing conspiracy theories here, anyone if the gate attendant is in on it?

Why Detroit... well maybe that's the gate that their attendant was working. It doesn't make much sense as a target. It's a possibility.

Anyone could try to talk someone onto a plane, also, especially if they know what usually works. I would look back and interview employees to see if there were any inquiries about things like this (hey I have a cousin who's a refugee and he has no visa/passport... what would I have to do to get him on the plane?) or failed attempts recently.

The attendant told him no. He went to speak to the manager. So the attendant couldn't have been in on it. Manager? Maybe. But now we're talking about someone much hire up and (hopefully) screened much tighter than a lowly gate attendant.

MelissaWV
12-31-2009, 12:54 PM
The attendant told him no. He went to speak to the manager. So the attendant couldn't have been in on it. Manager? Maybe. But now we're talking about someone much hire up and (hopefully) screened much tighter than a lowly gate attendant.

*shrugs* A manager is just an attendant-wrangler. My point was that if one is going so far as to entertain all these other conspiracies, it would be wise to realize that buying off an employee (or getting an employee into a position where they can make a decision) is not that difficult. You just need to then know where that employee is, so that you can make use of them.

Managers aren't really THAT much higher up. Something told this guy/these people that he could get through to the plane at that particular gate. I don't think badges were flashed, or false paperwork provided, because that tends to draw even more attention (and if badges were flashed, and the person in question was not cuffed or whatever, it really would be suspicious and more questions would be asked). We also haven't heard anything along those lines. Ultimately, someone said "okay, let this guy on." Who made that call, and what was their basis?

It seems very unlikely that they just kept trying different flights until they got lucky. That would run a very high risk of his being found out, eventually, by security. No, this would have had to have been a "one shot" deal on that day, and there had to be a reason for that location. Failure would have meant the exposing of the plot, at which point the Somali incident would have come to light, and also all the training in Yemen and connections to terrorism. BUT more importantly than all of that, it would have made security seem, well, secure. Terrorists don't like getting caught because it's hard to be terrified of someone that can be detected and thwarted by your average airport employee.

Bruno
12-31-2009, 01:37 PM
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_tells_msn.html

Second person was detained by U.S. Customs after alleged attack on Flight 253
By Sheena Harrison | MLive.com
December 29, 2009, 6:46PM

A person was detained by customs at Detroit Metro Airport on Friday following Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's alleged attack on Northwest Airlines Flight 253, according to a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

It is unknown why the person was detained or whether the person will face any charges, spokesman Ron Smith told MLive.com.

Update: In an interview on Wednesday afternoon, Smith said MLive.com's story was accurate. He clarified that the man taken into custody came to Detroit aboard a separate flight and was detained for issues unrelated to the attack on Flight 253.

Bill Carter, a spokesman with the FBI in Washington, D.C., said in an interview Tuesday that Abdulmutallab was the only person arrested or charged in relation to Friday's foiled attack.

The news about a person being taken into custody comes after two passengers aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 253 said they saw a second man being taken away in handcuffs on Christmas Day while they and others were waiting to be interviewed by FBI agents at the airport. Smith was unable to say whether that man was the person detained by customs officials.


Update: Smith said Wednesday that the man taken into custody was the one seen by Flight 253 passengers while in customs. Passengers from various flights went through customs processing in one centralized location.


Kurt Haskell, a Taylor, Mich., attorney who says he was seated a few rows behind suspected terrorist Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, told MLive.com on Saturday that he saw a second man taken into custody after search dogs appeared to find something in his carry-on bag.

Daniel Huisinga of Fairview, Tenn., who was returning from an internship in Kenya for the holidays, says he also saw a man being taken away in handcuffs at the airport after a dog search. A third person, Roey Rosenblith, told The Huffington Post on Sunday that he saw a man in a suit being placed into handcuffs and escorted out, as well.

Huisinga talked about seeing a man taken away at the airport during an interview Monday on MSNBC. He mentions it at about the 1:25 mark of the video below. The reporter appears to confuse Huisinga's account with a man who was detained on a separate flight Sunday and deemed not to be a threat.

MelissaWV
12-31-2009, 01:41 PM
Eh... it's *feasible* but I have no idea why it took so long and so many "need to confirm that"s before the story was put out there. It's been a week.

Bad time to be smuggling anything; if you were on that flight and had some other contraband, you were screwed heh.

Bruno
12-31-2009, 01:43 PM
From the comments section on above article, person claiming to be witness Kurt Haskell:


Posted by pug
December 30, 2009, 9:58AM
Just to give everyone an update. I had a visit from the FBI yesterday. They brought in several photos including one I casually identified to them as "The man they won't admit exists that they detained in customs." Amazingly, they changed their story and admitted that this 2nd Indian man was still being held in customs on "immigration issues." (i.e. no passport) last night. So, there first story that only one man had been detained was apparently untruthful.

To MplsMom- I got a several minute close up look of the terrorist in Amsterdam and he has quite a different look about him. Further, there were very few black persons on our flight or at the airport and he was rather easy for me to identify later. Hope this helps. Thanks Mlive and those that continue to be supportive. KH

MelissaWV
12-31-2009, 01:44 PM
From the comments section on above article:


Posted by pug
December 30, 2009, 9:58AM
Just to give everyone an update. I had a visit from the FBI yesterday. They brought in several photos including one I casually identified to them as "The man they won't admit exists that they detained in customs." Amazingly, they changed their story and admitted that this 2nd Indian man was still being held in customs on "immigration issues." (i.e. no passport) last night. So, there first story that only one man had been detained was apparently untruthful.

To MplsMom- I got a several minute close up look of the terrorist in Amsterdam and he has quite a different look about him. Further, there were very few black persons on our flight or at the airport and he was rather easy for me to identify later. Hope this helps. Thanks Mlive and those that continue to be supportive. KH


Now *that* makes it interesting. Why would someone be detained after a dog search (multiple witnesses said that's when it happened) for an immigration violation? Hmm.

Bruno
12-31-2009, 03:41 PM
More from Kurt Haskell:
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2009/12/flight_253_passenger_kurt_hask.html

"Today is the second worst day of my life after 12-25-09. Today is the day that I realized that my own country is lying to me and all of my fellow Americans. Let me explain.

Ever since I got off of Flight 253 I have been repeating what I saw in US Customs. Specifically, 1 hour after we left the plane, bomb sniffing dogs arrived. Up to this point, all of the passengers on Flight 253 stood in a small area in an evacuated luggage claim area of an airport terminal. During this time period, all of the passengers had their carry on bags with them. When the bomb sniffing dogs arrived, 1 dog found something in a carry on bag of a 30 ish Indian man. This is not the so called "Sharp Dressed" man. I will refer to this man as "The man in orange". The man in orange, who stood some 20ft away from me the entire time until he was taken away, was immediately taken away to be searched and interrogated in a nearby room. At this time he was not handcuffed. When he emerged from the room, he was then handcuffed and taken away. At this time an FBI agent came up to the rest of the passengers and said the following (approximate quote) "You all are being moved to another area because this area is not safe. I am sure many of you saw what just happened (Referring to the man in orange) and are smart enough to read between the lines and figure it out." We were then marched out of the baggage claim area and into a long hallway. This entire time period and until we left customs, no person that wasn't a law enforcement personnel or a passenger on our flight was allowed anywhere on our floor of the terminal (or possibly the entire terminal) The FBI was so concerned during this time, that we were not allowed to use the bathroom unless we went alone with an FBI agent, we were not allowed to eat or drink, or text or call anyone. I have been repeating this same story over the last 5 days. The FBI has, since we landed, insisted that only one man was arrested for the airliner attack (contradicting my account). However, several of my fellow passengers have come over the past few days, backed up my claim, and put pressure on FBI/Customs to tell the truth. Early today, I heard from two different reporters that a federal agency (FBI or Customs) was now admitting that another man has been held (and will be held indefinitely) since our flight landed for "immigration reasons." Notice that this man was "being held" and not "arrested", which was a cute semantic ploy by the FBI to stretch the truth and not lie.

Just a question, could that mean that the man in orange had no passport?

However, a few hours later, Customs changed its story again. This time, Mr. Ron Smith of Customs, says the man that was detained "had been taken into custody, but today tells the news the person was a passenger on a different flight." Mr. Ron Smith, you are playing the American public for a fool. Lets take a look at how plausible this story is (After you've already changed it twice). For the story to be true, you have to believe, that:

1. FBI/Customs let passengers from another flight co-mingle with the passengers of flight 253 while the most important investigation in 8 years was pending. I have already stated that not one person who wasn't a passenger or law enforcement personnal was in our area the entire time we were detained by Customs.
2. FBI/Customs while detaining the flight 253 passengers in perhaps the most important investigation since the last terrorist attack, and despite not letting any flight 253 passenger drink, eat, make a call, or use the bathroom, let those of other flights trample through the area and possibly contaminate evidence.
3. You have to believe the above (1 and 2) despite the fact that no flights during this time allowed passengers to exit off of the planes at all and were detained on the runway during at least the first hour of our detention period.
4. You have to believe that the man that stood 20 feet from me since we entered customs came from a mysterious plane that never landed, let its passengers off the plane and let this man sneak into our passenger group despite having extremely tight security at this time (i.e. no drinking even).
5. FBI/Customs was hauling mysterious passengers from other flights through the area we were being held to possibly comtaminate evidence and allow discussions with suspects on Flight 253 or to possibly allow the exchange of bombs, weapons or other devices between the mysterious passengers from other flights and those on flight 253.

Seriously Mr. Ron Smith, how stupid do you think the American public is?

Mr. Ron Smith's third version of the story is an absolute inplausible joke. I encourage you, Mr. Ron Smith, to debate me anytime, anywhere, and anyplace in public to let the American people see who is credible and who is not.

I ask, isn't this the more plausible story:

1. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers on a flight with a live bomb on the runway for 20 minutes.
2. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers in customs for 1 hour with a live bomb in a carry on bag.
3. Customs/FBI realize that the man in orange points to a greater involvement then the lone wolf theory that they have been promoting.

Mr. Ron Smith I encourage you to come out of your cubicle and come up with a more plausible version number 4 of your story."

Haskell continued his comment in a different post on MLive.

"For the last five days I have been reporting my story of the so called "sharp dressed man." For those of you who haven't read my account, it involves a sharp dressed "Indian man" attempting to talk a ticket agent into letting a supposed "Sudanese refugee" (The terrorist) onto flight 253 without a passport. I have never had any idea how it played out except to note that the so called "Sudanese reefugee" later boarded my flight and attempted to blow it up and kill me. At no time did my story involve, or even find important whether the terrorist actually had a passport. The importance of my story was and always will be, the attempt with an accomplice (apparently succesful) of a terrorist with all sorts of prior terrorist warning signs to skirt the normal passport boarding procedures in Amsterdam. By the way, Amsterdam security did come out the other day and admit that the terrorist did not have to "Go through normal passport checking procedures".
Amsterdam security, please define to the American public "Normal passport boarding procedures".

You see the FBI would have the American public believe that what was important was whether the terrorist in fact had a passport.

Seriously think about this people. You have a suicide bomber who had recently been to Yemen to but a bomb, whose father had reported him as a terrorist, who supposedly was on some kind of U.S. terror watchlist, and most likely knew the U.S. was aware of these red flags. Yet, he didn't go through "Normal passport checking procedures." What does that mean? Maybe that he flashed a passport to some sort of sympathetic security manager in a backroom to avoid a closer look at the terrorist's "red flags"? What is important is that the terrorist avoided using normal passport checking procedures (apparently successfully) in order to avoid a closer look into his red flags. Who cares if he had a passport. The important thing is that he didn't want to show it and somehow avoided a closer inspection and "normal passport checking procedures." Each passport comes with a bar code on it that can be scanned to provide a wealth of information about the individual. I would bet that the passport checking procedures for the terrorist did not include a bar code scan of his passport (which could have revealed damning information about the terrorist).

Please note that there is a very easy way to verify the veracity of my prior "sharp dressed man" account. Dutch police have admitted that they have reviewed the video of the "sharp dressed man" that I referenced. Note that it has not been released anywhere, You see, if my eye witness account is false, it could easily be proven by releasing the video. However, the proof of my eyewitness account would also be verified if I am telling the truth and I am. There is a reason we have only heard of the video and not seen it. dutch authorities, "RELEASE THE VIDEO!" This is the most important video in 8 years and may be all of two minutes long. Show the entire video and "DO NOT EDIT IT"! The American public deserves its own chance to attempt to identify the "sharp dressed man". I have no doubt that if the video indicated that my account was wrong, that the video would have already swept over the entire world wide web.

Instead of the video, we get a statment that the video has been viewed and that the terrorist had a passport. Each of these statements made by the FBI is a self serving play on semantics and each misses the importance of my prior "sharp dressed man" account. The importance being that the man "Tried to board the plane with an accomplice and without a passort". The other significance is that only the airport security video can verify my eyewitness account and that it is not being released.

Who has the agenda here and who doesn't? Think about that for a minute."

BlackTerrel
12-31-2009, 04:57 PM
1. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers on a flight with a live bomb on the runway for 20 minutes.
2. Customs/FBI realized that they screwed up and don't want to admit that they left flight 253 passengers in customs for 1 hour with a live bomb in a carry on bag.
3. Customs/FBI realize that the man in orange points to a greater involvement then the lone wolf theory that they have been promoting.


Very interesting. If it is #3 then the reason is the threat is bigger than the FBI wants the public to know/they don't want panic. Which is in many ways the exact opposite of what some people here are saying.

So hard to know who to believe. I am off to celebrate the New Year - hope nothing stupid happens.

jmdrake
01-04-2010, 12:12 PM
*shrugs* A manager is just an attendant-wrangler. My point was that if one is going so far as to entertain all these other conspiracies, it would be wise to realize that buying off an employee (or getting an employee into a position where they can make a decision) is not that difficult. You just need to then know where that employee is, so that you can make use of them.


Are you sure about that? At first you didn't know that the attendant wasn't the one who let the guy on the plane. Now you're an expert on airport managers? Anyway this was a manager of security. This would be more difficult than you think. Besides, let's say your right and this is just one employee bought off? So what? In a real investigation the police would lean hard on this guy and try to flip him. So far there's no indication of that. In fact the FBI initially denied the story. They also initially denied that they had arrested a second person. And now they claim this second person is simply being detained on "immigration issues" even though a bomb sniffing dog pointed him out. And then there's the guy who was videotapping on the plane. Why was he not questioned? Do the feds have his video? And what about the video in the terminal?

One thing is clear. The "loan Al Qaeda nutcase" story the FBI initially put out and the media is still propagating clearly isn't true. And the fact that this "attendant wrangler" (as you call him) isn't being given the third degree as far as we can tell indicates a strong possibility of a deeper connection than what you are alluding to.

American Nationalist
01-04-2010, 12:22 PM
It is clearly false flag. At the very least, Dutch Security at the airport had to be in on it, at the most, the FBI also knew about it and "stifled the investigation" as Kurt Haskell said after the botched attack. The Indian man took into custody did not have his picture shown and he is gone as far as we know. They deliberately tried to confuse witnesses and wouldn't answer Haskell's questions.

Just imagine if this attack had gotten through, it would have been 911 all over again, and we would have lost much of the American populace to Neo Conservative war fervor.


But the fact I think it is a false flag doesn't take away from Ron Paul's points about inciting terrorism in the Muslim World. This young man probably didn't know the US government was in on it, he was truly angry at American Millitary forces targeting Yemen. They used his rage to facilitate a false flag op.