Civil War Breaks Out in L.A. County GOP btwn Neocons and RP supporters

[Robert Stark]

http://www.prlog.org/10442551-civil-war-breaks-out-in-la-county-republican-committee.html

[Reason]

interesting

[Matt Collins]

From the press release:



Civil War Breaks Out in L.A. County Republican Committee

(Two Factions are Suing for the Leadership of The Republican Party of Los Angeles County.)



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

PR Log (Press Release) (http://www.prlog.org/) – Dec 08, 2009 – Leaders of the Los Angeles County Republican Central Committee say that "old guard" party members planned and staged a "Communist Russia style" coup last May that ousted them from the posts to which they were properly elected a year ago. The furious, 38-page legal complaint, which includes defamatory allegations of Holocaust denial and 9/11 "Truther" beliefs in the U.S. involvement in the events of Sept. 11, also holds that the "coup events" of May 14 this year by the old guard violated a plethora of critical party bylaws and Robert's Rules of Order.

In their Superior Court complaint, the plaintiffs - Robert Vaughn, Ted Hayes, Manny Aldana, Roger Eshleman, Nancy Comaford, Constance Ruffley and Sandra Needs - declare they were properly given authority back in December 2008.

But that didn't set well with the old guard defendants - Jane Barnett, Gary Aminoff, John Cozza, Leonard Lanzi, Alex Burrola and Davina Keiser - who refused to work with the young executive board at all, according to the complaint.

Some of the plaintiffs were newcomers to the Party Committee when they were elected. They say they owe their electoral triumphs to widespread dissatisfaction with the "entrenched" old guard that had held the reins for years.

After surviving the December vote, Aminoff, the only member of the old guard to retain his position, "would soon be busily organizing a coup" with Barnett, the plaintiffs say.

In a series of emails and posts to a Yahoo! group - which are reproduced in the complaint - Aminoff went to great lengths to highlight the newcomers' inexperience.

"They were pretty much novices," he wrote in one email, adding that none of Los Angeles County's elected officials knew who they were, and none of the committee's major donors had ever heard of them.

"People who are known and who have track records don't have that difficulty in raising money. The donors know them and trust them. With the top three officers there had been no prior history, and therefore no developed sense of trust," Aminoff wrote.

In other words, the plaintiffs assert, "If you're not part of the old guard with a prior history, you can't be a leader in RPLAC, whether validly elected or not."

The split quickly grew nasty. The old guard derided the new chairman and executive committee as "a motley crew of assorted local hangers-on" and as "flotsam and jetsam," according to the complaint.

Aminoff made even more personal attacks, calling out plaintiff Vaughn in particular. "For some reason, the Ron Paul backers to a great extent are crackpots," Aminoff allegedly said. Aminoff wrote that, "Robert Vaughn, who was the campaign chairman for Ron Paul in Los Angeles, is a 9/11 truther who believes the government set up 9/11, and is a Holocaust denier. He also is a supporter of Palestinians and believes that Israel is Nazi-like. And ... he wants to be chairman of RPLAC." (Ellipsis in complaint, citing an email.)

Vaughn denied these assertions, but Aminoff persisted, telling him, "We don't need help from the bat shit crazy wing of those trying to be our party. The Republican Party doesn't need you to rescue it," according to the complaint.

The plaintiffs say that to carry out their coup, during the May 14th meeting, the old guard used a non-existent motion to "vacate the chair," of the Chairman, then adjourned and immediately reconvened to elect defendant Barnett the new chairman, ignoring the committee's bylaws process of automatic succession in the event of a vacancy and to give fair notice to the entire committee that the position was open.

Then an arbitrary voice vote was held to vacate all the remaining offices, and the balance of the defendants were invalidly installed in their place, according to the complaint.

That is a coup: "The idea that a self-professed supermajority can walk into a meeting, suspend the bylaws, appoint a bogus temporary chairman on false pretenses, and then throw out the validly elected officers reflects a total misunderstanding of due process rights, good order, fundamental fairness, the operative bylaws and Robert's Rules of Order," the complaint state.

But the plaintiffs say the attacks on them did not stop. After briefly holding out an olive branch to the ousted leadership, to no avail, Aminoff, who became 1st Vice Chair after the "coup," allegedly resorted to threats, telling one plaintiff that it was time to stop raising parliamentary or legal issues.

"If you ever have any ambitions of being a leader in the Republican Party in California, you quite possibly may be ending those ambitions," he wrote in email, according to the complaint.

Another party member evidently agreed. "I am growing sick and tired, as are most central committee members, with this 'rule of law' shield being used to usurp the will of the people," the complaint states, citing another email.

The lawsuit names “Does” 1-40 as co-defendants. It describes them as corporations, voluntary associations, and others who acted in concert with the defendants.

The plaintiffs want the usurpers enjoined from representing themselves as the legitimate leaders of the Committee, from holding meetings, and collecting money or maintaining bank accounts, which they are currently doing .

They also seek an accounting of all money collected and expended by the defendants since May 14, imposition of a constructive trust, and restitution and disgorgement, as necessary.

The plaintiffs are represented by Richard Williams with Kelly, Lytton & Williams.

-Dan McCue

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

As I've said around here for a while. The GOP doesn't want us. If we haven't made any headway by 2012 it's time to turn Independant.

[Dunedain]

I see less and less hope for reforming the republican party. We can rely on only penetrating the repubs. You can be elected as a republican by the people and still be denied your right to take elected office. There are legal avenues but those play into enemy hands in other ways.

We are a third party. We need third party infrastructure. AND we need to make republican inroads at the same time.

[Elm]

Yes. Lets ignore the complete failure of the last two 3rd parties to break away from the Republicans and pretend that for some reason - we can achieve different results.

Sorry, no.

Now I don't particularly care if the Republican party continues to exist or not because another centrist right (from an American perspective) will form with near the same ideas and goals.

America as she is set up will always be a two-party system in the long run. Always Always Always.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I see less and less hope for reforming the republican party. We can rely on only penetrating the repubs. You can be elected as a republican by the people and still be denied your right to take elected office. There are legal avenues but those play into enemy hands in other ways.

We are a third party. We need third party infrastructure. AND we need to make republican inroads at the same time.

Why not go Independant and setup PAC's based on principle? Lots of pros, little cons. Besides more people identify as (I) (39%) today than either party. Don't have to waste money in primaries, and we have longer time to campaign in the general. Also don't have the name baggage that comes along with being a D, R, or L.

I say, we should go Independant if shit fails.

[Elm]

Why not go Independant and setup PAC's based on principle? Lots of pros, little cons. Besides more people identify as (I) (39%) today than either party. Don't have to waste money in primaries, and we have longer time to campaign in the general. Also don't have the name baggage that comes along with being a D, R, or L.

I say, we should go Independant if shit fails.

Heh I did that in 2007 when Ron started running. Citizens for Constitutionalism. I think its been sitting with 30 bucks since the campaign ended. Enough to buy a domain and start funding if I ever get the time to do it again.

[Flash]

Heh I did that in 2007 when Ron started running. Citizens for Constitutionalism. I think its been sitting with 30 bucks since the campaign ended. Enough to buy a domain and start funding if I ever get the time to do it again.

I was thinking If Rand Paul is elected he can start his own PAC, like DeMint did with the Senate Conservative Fund. Except it'll only be for Liberty candidates.

[Dunedain]

We can't keep our eye on the presidency. There are tons of other elections that can be won locally and other ways we can have influence. Presidency is a good long term goal. Ron will keep them under pressure until then.

[TheConstitutionLives]

And some on this forum will say that outspoken trutherism doesn't hurt this movement. Puleeez

[Morgan Brykein]

We're not going to be watering the tree of liberty any time soon if we continue voting for the lesser of two evils. The Republican primaries only shut out the Republicans who truly believe in freedom. The only solution is to go third party.

[Pauls' Revere]

As I've said around here for a while. The GOP doesn't want us. If we haven't made any headway by 2012 it's time to turn Independant.

Why wait, the writing is on the wall.

[SevenEyedJeff]

Secession is the only answer.:o

[Matt Collins]

And some on this forum will say that outspoken trutherism doesn't hurt this movement. Puleeez
Of course it can be damaging, I completely agree.

Those things were just allegations by the old Republicans against the newer ones; who know if there is any credibility to it or not, but even if there is, the GOP must still follow the rules before they can just remove people.

[Matt Collins]

I see less and less hope for reforming the republican party. We can rely on only penetrating the repubs. You can be elected as a republican by the people and still be denied your right to take elected office. There are legal avenues but those play into enemy hands in other ways.

We are a third party. We need third party infrastructure. AND we need to make republican inroads at the same time.

As I've said around here for a while. The GOP doesn't want us. If we haven't made any headway by 2012 it's time to turn Independant.

I am sure glad the good Doctor didn't follow yall's advice. :)

[speciallyblend]

As I've said around here for a while. The GOP doesn't want us. If we haven't made any headway by 2012 it's time to turn Independant.

i hear you, this is not news this has happened the last 2 yrs. the gop is dying ,we tried to save it,but the old guard gop leadership is gonna alienate themselves.

we should keep building coalitions with republicans(no neo-cons) and voters. if the gop doesn't shape up soon, i encourage people to do what you have to do to oust these old guard republicans from the bottom up, city council,county commissioner, state house seats, and senate. Ron Paul 2012 or else ,says it all in my eyes;)

ps if the gop fails to listen ,then let them alienate themselves.

i just remind myself of the colorado and nevada republican conventions and it reminds me why i will hold every colorado republican and cogop/gop leader accountable with my vote!!!!!!!!! and we have a whole slew of lake county citizens/voters across the party lines that plan to hold the gop accountable for their lack of vision,action in 2010/2012. the reason i know this?? because they already did last election. the gop is not filling the political vacuum in colorado and from what i am seeing not really anywhere...

[speciallyblend]

I am sure glad the good Doctor didn't follow yall's advice. :)

matt its reality, you deal with your local politics and let other folks deal with theirs. all politics is local and what might work for you or not? does not apply to my county at all or anyone elses ,except yours. if someone is reclaiming the gop or the dnc or whatever party locally can move our movement forward, then more power to them. the gop will live or die on their own merits.

the gop is not the save all, no matter what Ron Paul or you say. the fact is Ron Paul said get involved. if folks do not want anything to do with the gop??(that is the gop leaders fault),get off their backs. they are doing something, the problem is not them ,it is the gop.


the same applies to any party, that is what ron paul preaches ,that is the bottom line.. gop does not own the playbook to liberty..
Ron Paul 2012

[speciallyblend]

We're not going to be watering the tree of liberty any time soon if we continue voting for the lesser of two evils. The Republican primaries only shut out the Republicans who truly believe in freedom. The only solution is to go third party.

build your allies in both parties and stay involved locally. libertarians and ron paul supporters are in all parties and build your allies in all 3rd parties;) this is what wins local elections;)

[speciallyblend]

Yes. Lets ignore the complete failure of the last two 3rd parties to break away from the Republicans and pretend that for some reason - we can achieve different results.

Sorry, no.

Now I don't particularly care if the Republican party continues to exist or not because another centrist right (from an American perspective) will form with near the same ideas and goals.

America as she is set up will always be a two-party system in the long run. Always Always Always.

wrong, the problem was they didn't create a platform and have the unity of a political coalition. you can not write the future this way,if you did. there would be no republican party,bottom line. the future is unknown and the gop might be history like the whigs.. shifting of politics takes time but the gop is speeding it up for us. we should be thanking the old guard republicans. they might be helping the gop die by their actions. god bless them.

[speciallyblend]

Secession is the only answer.:o

voting locally works to:rolleyes: but i hear you

[Endgame]

This campaign to infiltrate the GOP has only been going on about two years and you people are already talking about giving up and repeating the failure of the LP. Really we should be trying to get candidates in both parties. This is fucking weak.

[speciallyblend]

This campaign to infiltrate the GOP has only been going on about two years and you people are already talking about giving up and repeating the failure of the LP. Really we should be trying to get candidates in both parties. This is fucking weak.

the gop is fucking weak(using your terms), who says anyone will repeat the lp failure. the fact is if we leave the gop, then the gop has failed. the future cannot be written by you or me,but for you to predict the future is kinda crazy . you say it can't be done but the fact is it can or there wouldn't even be a republican party. the existence of the republican party proves the gop can either be history or become history like the whig party. never say never, in some local states it might be sooner rather then later...

the gop will alienate themselves as our movement moves forward. the gop will live or die on their own depending if they ever do anything to grow and correct their useless brandname.

the gop lacks issues and vision this will be their downfall if they do not regonize why they are shrinking and sinking. they have alot of changing to do before they gain any credibility to voters and republicans like myself.

[speciallyblend]

This campaign to infiltrate the GOP has only been going on about two years and you people are already talking about giving up and repeating the failure of the LP. Really we should be trying to get candidates in both parties. This is fucking weak.

no one said anything about giving up, it will be the gop leaders that give up if we abandon the gop. the gop does not stand for the ron paul platform and people don't have to be republicans to further liberty. the gop does not copyright liberty or even stand for liberty. the gop has done nothing to even gain credibilty or my vote. use whatever party locally that can help your movement, if it is the gop good, if it isn't ,then that is the gop's fault not ours mine or yours. let the chips fall where they may...

[Anti Federalist]

And some on this forum will say that outspoken trutherism doesn't hurt this movement. Puleeez

The "Old Guard" had a whole lot more to bitch about than just 9/11 Truth:


Aminoff made even more personal attacks, calling out plaintiff Vaughn in particular. "For some reason, the Ron Paul backers to a great extent are crackpots," Aminoff allegedly said. Aminoff wrote that, "Robert Vaughn, who was the campaign chairman for Ron Paul in Los Angeles, is a 9/11 truther who believes the government set up 9/11, and is a Holocaust denier. He also is a supporter of Palestinians and believes that Israel is Nazi-like. And ... he wants to be chairman of RPLAC.

Hell, I'd have pegged Aminoff for you, TCL.

He sounds like a neo con in full blown, melt down, mode.

[MN Patriot]

Yes. Lets ignore the complete failure of the last two 3rd parties to break away from the Republicans and pretend that for some reason - we can achieve different results.

Sorry, no.

Now I don't particularly care if the Republican party continues to exist or not because another centrist right (from an American perspective) will form with near the same ideas and goals.

America as she is set up will always be a two-party system in the long run. Always Always Always.

Failure is in the past. Learn and grow and succeed in the future.

I am evolving towards the idea of combining the Libertarian and Constitution parties. Rename it the Liberty Constitution Party. Get thousands of us to join both, and any other like minded third party. Then get together and combine them. Start running candidates for EVERY congressional seat, and president, and state legislatures. Put the Republican party out of business, so that we still have a two party system, but then it would clearly define ideologies: freedom vs fascism.

Probably will never happen, though. Third party people are caught up in their egos, running their little parties like it is their own kingdom or something.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

This campaign to infiltrate the GOP has only been going on about two years and you people are already talking about giving up and repeating the failure of the LP. Really we should be trying to get candidates in both parties. This is fucking weak.

We shouldn't use a Party at all. Haven't we learned anything? More people identify as (I) (39%) and more people identify with fiscal conservatism and socially liberal (40%), while not the definition of libertarian, they are more open to our message. When we have D, R, or L we carry the name baggage that carries with that and we waste time having to confront that. Secondly, we have to spend how many millions on worthless primaries! There are a lot of upsides of going Independant and not many cons. The only time I disagree with going (I) is in states that have ridiculous ballot access laws.

I've seen a lot of purges of Ron Paulers from the GOP over the past 2 years, especially in FL. The GOP doesn't want us. I say if by 2012 we haven't made much headway then fuck them. Let them go the way of the whigs, and who knows maybe more people might learn from going (I). I'm watching Jakes candidacy closely.

[jrkotrla]

more people identify as (I) (39%) today than either party.

unfortunately, they still vote straight down the R or D line without evaluating the choices offered to them. Many times, without even knowing the names of any of the candidates (much less their platforms) before they see the R or D.

remember the little town in NC that tried to remove R's and D's from their ballots? DoJ says people are too stupid to know how to vote if those aren't there.

[Endgame]

We shouldn't use a Party at all. Haven't we learned anything? More people identify as (I) (39%) and more people identify with fiscal conservatism and socially liberal (40%), while not the definition of libertarian, they are more open to our message. When we have D, R, or L we carry the name baggage that carries with that and we waste time having to confront that. Secondly, we have to spend how many millions on worthless primaries! There are a lot of upsides of going Independant and not many cons. The only time I disagree with going (I) is in states that have ridiculous ballot access laws.

I've seen a lot of purges of Ron Paulers from the GOP over the past 2 years, especially in FL. The GOP doesn't want us. I say if by 2012 we haven't made much headway then fuck them. Let them go the way of the whigs, and who knows maybe more people might learn from going (I). I'm watching Jakes candidacy closely.

If we give up, they've fucked us. The two-party system is stacked against any other kind of candidate. I can't believe you're willing to just throw in the towel at the first sign of resistance. Who thought this was going to be easy? I'm glad we're actually at the point where they have to fight us.

[Matt Collins]

We shouldn't use a Party at all. Haven't we learned anything? More people identify as (I) (39%) and more people identify with fiscal conservatism and socially liberal (40%), while not the definition of libertarian, they are more open to our message. When we have D, R, or L we carry the name baggage that carries with that and we waste time having to confront that. Secondly, we have to spend how many millions on worthless primaries! There are a lot of upsides of going Independant and not many cons. The only time I disagree with going (I) is in states that have ridiculous ballot access laws.

I've seen a lot of purges of Ron Paulers from the GOP over the past 2 years, especially in FL. The GOP doesn't want us. I say if by 2012 we haven't made much headway then fuck them. Let them go the way of the whigs, and who knows maybe more people might learn from going (I). I'm watching Jakes candidacy closely.Our only choice is to change the Republican Party because there is no other viable option. Nothing else is possible at present.

[LibertyWorker]

People need to stop playing games with the domestic terror groups like the Democrats and Republicans. If you give them money you are supporting terrorism if you join there party's you are a terrorist. If you would like to save this country then hunt down the leadership of the two terrorist groups jail them take there money and power from them.

The whole point of the the two party system is to fool people in to thinking they have a voice...... sorry but if you support them the jokes on you!!

We must destroy them before they destroy us......its that simple

You only need to see the polices of the last 10 years to see that they are the radicals not me.

[RevolutionSD]

People need to stop playing games with the domestic terror groups like the Democrats and Republicans. If you give them money you are supporting terrorism if you join there party's you are a terrorist. If you would like to save this country then hunt down the leadership of the two terrorist groups jail them take there money and power from them.

The whole point of the the two party system is to fool people in to thinking they have a voice...... sorry but if you support them the jokes on you!!

We must destroy them before they destroy us......its that simple

You only need to see the polices of the last 10 years to see that they are the radicals not me.

This is exactly right which is why I support voluntaryism over centralized government.

[LibertyWorker]

This is exactly right which is why I support voluntaryism over centralized government.

I agree the only thing you get with centralized government.. is centralized corruption

[TNforPaul45]

What is really needed is for all the alternative parties outside the Federalist (Dem and Repub) control to come together and hold something similar to the Original Continental Congress. Look at all the extremely diverse groups that came together, representing each of the states, and groups within each, and eventually found common ground upon which to unite. Imagine if all the different independent groups came together and focused on what they shared in common instead of what separated them. A "Congress of the Free" if you will.

Once they find that common ground, then it should be used to form a United Independent Party (UIP) or just U. The United party would then have a fair shot at taking on the Federalists. This throws us back into a two-dimensional political paradigm, but please bear with me.

Once we have routed the Federalists from the majority of political offices (focusing on Congress and State Levels before presidency) Then the UIP could remember how they were always forced out of elections, kept off ballots, tricked out of debate participation, and overhaul the election system to make it so that none of these tactics can ever work again.

Then the UIP should disband and each of it's disparate groups be allowed fair and equal participation under the newly reformed election system. This last part doesn't have to happen, but when the the victories come and the differences of the original forming independent parties rise back to the surface, this would be a clean and fair way to allow an amiable separation and for honest ideological debate to occur once again.

Please think the above over before lambasting it in a reactionary way. What would be the alternative? Alone we are but small voices. Together we can shine a light so bright that those who are asleep and those who will us to stay that way will have no choice but to see the end of their ways.

[anaconda]

Yes. Lets ignore the complete failure of the last two 3rd parties to break away from the Republicans and pretend that for some reason - we can achieve different results.

Sorry, no.

Now I don't particularly care if the Republican party continues to exist or not because another centrist right (from an American perspective) will form with near the same ideas and goals.

America as she is set up will always be a two-party system in the long run. Always Always Always.

I think it's really a one party system. I like your point that just because a third party may arise, it doesn't mean it won't simply be another incarnation of the military/industrial complex. I am not certain that a viable conservative third party could not arise, however. Imagine that Peter Schiff, Rand Paul, and Ron Paul all win in 2010, then immediately formed a third party, announced themselves as members, and courted conservatives thereafter. Could this be a breakaway strategy?

[Flash]

I think it's really a one party system. I like your point that just because a third party may arise, it doesn't mean it won't simply be another incarnation of the military/industrial complex. I am not certain that a viable conservative third party could not arise, however. Imagine that Peter Schiff, Rand Paul, and Ron Paul all win in 2010, then immediately formed a third party, announced themselves as members, and courted conservatives thereafter. Could this be a breakaway strategy?

That would be a viable third party. Starting a party from the ground up doesn't work. There would need to be a reason to do this as well. Like Republicans post-2012 would have to vote for bailouts, ignoring the 'Tea Party' wing of the party.

[angelatc]

I see less and less hope for reforming the republican party. We can rely on only penetrating the repubs. You can be elected as a republican by the people and still be denied your right to take elected office. There are legal avenues but those play into enemy hands in other ways.

We are a third party. We need third party infrastructure. AND we need to make republican inroads at the same time.

That belly up attitude has served us sooooo well in the past. Every time somebody throws up a roadblock, the libertarians whimper "that's nor fair!' and crawl off to whine another day.

They need to fight for this. They need to blast out press releases to every media outlet in the country and they need to clamor for Michael Steele to get involved.

If you think the GOP is too tough, then you don't stand a chance against the Democrats.

[angelatc]

Imagine that Peter Schiff, Rand Paul, and Ron Paul all win in 2010, then immediately formed a third party, announced themselves as members, and courted conservatives thereafter. Could this be a breakaway strategy?

Palin can and will bury them all with one tweet.

[kahless]

Did I miss something here or were the ousted Ron Paul supporters Holocaust deniers and 9/11 truthers? Those views are not endorsed by Ron Paul, C4L and are a recipe for failure.

We should stick to the core values of Campaign For Liberty and Ron Paul of limited government and not support those that wish to self destruct these efforts.

edit: Never mind, did not see that "Vaughn denied these assertions".

[anaconda]

Palin can and will bury them all with one tweet.


I honestly don't think Palin can survive a campaign length-exposure without making so many blunders and displays of ignorance that her support erodes in dramatic fashion. It is not helped by the fact that she tries to script her answers as she speaks. She needs extensive coaching and needs to keep it simple.

But I could be wrong and I have touted her at length in the recent past as being a possible wild card that may add greatly to the freedom revolution.

I also think that if two senators joined Ron Paul in forming a new party it would get a ton of media buzz, both good and bad, yet all three would be routinely called upon by the main stream media, and thus be able to spread the message. Don't something like 45% of the voters describe themselves as independents?

[anaconda]

That would be a viable third party. Starting a party from the ground up doesn't work. There would need to be a reason to do this as well. Like Republicans post-2012 would have to vote for bailouts, ignoring the 'Tea Party' wing of the party.

Haven't the Republicans already alienated the "Tea Party Wing?" Why should the Tea Party Wing wait until post 2012?

[Flash]

Haven't the Republicans already alienated the "Tea Party Wing?" Why should the Tea Party Wing wait until post 2012?

Because the tea partiers have a chance to get some good conservatives in the Congress for 2010. If the party fails them again then there could be a huge uproar.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Because the tea partiers have a chance to get some good conservatives in the Congress for 2010. If the party fails them again then there could be a huge uproar.

If we fail in 2010 and 2012 there won't be a Union left. This is both good and bad, more bad.

[speciallyblend]

If we give up, they've fucked us. The two-party system is stacked against any other kind of candidate. I can't believe you're willing to just throw in the towel at the first sign of resistance. Who thought this was going to be easy? I'm glad we're actually at the point where they have to fight us.

not in colorado it isn't , depends on your state, all politics is local, so what happens outside of colorado does not apply to colorado. not one person said we are throwing in the towel. the fact is the gop are the ones throwing the game...
\
note i am still a registered republican but i will vote against any neo-con republican no matter what lies they say. they(gop) have 0 credibility. they better start asking Ron Paul or the gop is screwed by themselves. like i have said the gop will alienate themselves and are doing a grade A job at doing it..

[speciallyblend]

That would be a viable third party. Starting a party from the ground up doesn't work. There would need to be a reason to do this as well. Like Republicans post-2012 would have to vote for bailouts, ignoring the 'Tea Party' wing of the party.

it wouldn't be a new party per say. it would be a new coalition that included all the 3rd parties and ron paul republicans and tp/lp/cp and indys etc etc. the new party would be a new brandname made up of a uniting platform aka ron pauls platform.

if we formed the proper political coalition, if the gop refuses to change. then the gop will become a marginalized 3rd party overnight as a new brandname and platform unites the greens/lp/cp/tp/indys/ron paul dems/ron paul republicans and various other supporters. starting a party from the ground up works, ask the republican party. you keep trying to imply it cannot be done ,but if that was the case. their would never have been a republican party, never say never. if the gop doesn't shape up, they will be shipped out asap(like the whigs) as they should be!!!!!

Ron Paul 2012 or ELSE!!!

[TNforPaul45]

The argument for reforming the Republican Party is the same as saying that the Founding Fathers (and Mothers) were wrong in their actions to form a new country because they should have tried harder to reform the British Government. I think that no one would agree that they showed a "belly up" attitude to just "running away" from the British Empire.

They understood two key things, Entrenchment and Power. Those who have power will always do whatever is in their power to keep it. The republican establishment that controls the GOP will never give up their control of it, they would rather kill it than see it returned to their rightful owners.

Also, 1/3rd of the actively voting public identifies themselves as GOP. A large chunk of those voters vote GOP for the same reason they may go to Church every sunday (which is not a bad thing), that's just the way it is. They vote republican because they just do, they always have, everyone they know and are related to has, and it is an immutable force of reality against which no assault by reason or logic or heart can ever change. Those are the entrenched who will never change. There are the same number, roughly, maybe a bit more, on the Democratic side as well.

The rest of the voters are feeling around in the dark. We liberty minded folk have gotten their attention, they have perked their heads up in the dark, stopped grasping for a few seconds, and are hearing us call out from a distance "freedom!" But the "bright lights" of the two halves of the Federalist party still shine like close suns. To these lost, changeable folks, we do not appear to be serious yet. We will have to mimic the structure of a serious, united party, without the inherent ideological corruption, before we will ever be able to guide these lost and misinformed Americans back to shore again.

[reduen]

2010 for me.... :)


As I've said around here for a while. The GOP doesn't want us. If we haven't made any headway by 2012 it's time to turn Independant.

[Athan]

As I've said around here for a while. The GOP doesn't want us. If we haven't made any headway by 2012 it's time to turn Independant.

I agree. We don't have time to be fucking around with morons with this collapse imminent.

[LibertyWorker]

If you would like to save this country and restore what we have lost. you need to be willing to give up what you hold dearest. Your Life,liberty and property.

Only then will you really be in the fight !!

[Liberty Star]

As I've said around here for a while. The GOP doesn't want us. If we haven't made any headway by 2012 it's time to turn Independant.

That would give the the third party too much power, sort of like the king maker party. I'm down with that idea, more than ever almost half of America is fed up with both major parties' manipulations.

[Robert Stark]

The Freedomslate Response to an "Old Guarder" Hit Piece

http://freedomslate.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-freedomslate-response-to