Ethnic groups say 'white' isn't enough on the 2010 census

[bobbyw24]

Arab Americans, others fear loss of benefits if ancestry not accounted for


As a land of immigrants, the United States is home to people from all corners of the world.

And in the past, it has documented where its people hail from by using the U.S. census, conducted every 10 years as mandated in the Constitution.

But the 2010 census form -- in a departure from 2000 and previous decades -- will not contain a question asking people about their ancestry, prompting concern among metro Detroit's diverse ethnic communities. Many in the sizable Arab-American population in metro Detroit -- who have faced a host of challenges during the past 10 years -- are particularly concerned.

Government officials say they eliminated the ancestry question along with several others because they wanted a shorter form that will make it easier for people to complete.

But ethnic groups are worried that they might lose their fair share of federal and private dollars since institutions often rely on census data to allocate funds.
Ethnic groups say 'white' isn't enough on the 2010 census

With her light-brown skin and Islamic headscarf, Khadigah Alasry of Dearborn said she doesn't see herself as white.

But the Arab American is officially classified as such by the U.S. government, which says that anyone with roots in the Middle East -- including north Africa -- is white.

"That's just weird to me," said Alasry, 23, born to immigrants from Yemen.

It's also weird for thousands of other Americans who say they don't fit into traditional categories of race in the United States. As the 2010 U.S. census prepares to tabulate millions of Americans, the issue of racial and ethnic identity is being debated as groups push to get their voices heard.

The census is conducted to get accurate population statistics that are used to determine the number of congressional seats and amount of government funding, and to ensure that minorities are not discriminated against.

The concern is acutely felt in metro Detroit, home to the highest concentration of Arab Americans and Chaldeans -- Iraqi Christians -- in the United States, according to 2000 census figures.

Having the ancestry question is important because terms like "white" and "black" are vague and don't offer much detail, said ethnic advocates.

"There is no such thing as white culture," said Thaddeus Radzilowski, president of the Piast Institute, a Polish-American group in Hamtramck that is one of 56 census Information Centers in the United States and the only one in Michigan. Having the ancestry question "provides a better notion of our pluralistic society and who we are," Radzilowski said.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091217/NEWS05/912170521/1322/Groups-White-isnt-enough-on-census&template=fullarticle

[Stary Hickory]

Frankly race should not even be in the census. The government should be colorblind in all it's activities. The information will only be used to create more racist legislation.

[catdd]

Frankly race should not even be in the census. The government should be colorblind in all it's activities. The information will only be used to create more racist legislation.

+1

[bobbyw24]

Frankly race should not even be in the census. The government should be colorblind in all it's activities. The information will only be used to create more racist legislation.

Precisely why I post this kind of stuff--it is sad that the Gov't divides its citizens in this manner. You see that some groups are worried about their benefits--a zero sum game

[erowe1]

The census form has a space for "other." I think I'll just call myself and the rest of my family "human."

[Liberty Star]

Arab Americans, others fear loss of benefits if ancestry not accounted for



Are arabs, jews and other semitic races counted as "white" currently in our census? What about White Russians?

This will be opening of pandora box, there is so many types of people who may look white to the untrained eye but do not have fully authentic white genes.

[mczerone]

Precisely why I post this kind of stuff--it is sad that the Gov't divides its citizens in this manner. You see that some groups are worried about their benefits--a zero sum game

It's actually a negative sum game. "Zero sum" refers to the fact that any options in the game have zero effect on the aggregate "wealth" or "value" to the entire group of players.

In the case of the State, the more resources spent on divisiveness and welfare redistribution, the less capital structure that's made possible, and the less incentive to be "more rich" than your neighbors - creating a system with less overall wealth than one without the option of redistribution.

[mczerone]

Are arabs, jews and other semitic races counted as "white" currently in our census? What about White Russians?

This will be opening of pandora box, there is so many types of people who may look white to the untrained eye but do not have fully authentic white genes.

For unofficial race questions I generally answer with my first and last name. I'm not defined by my mutt heritage, but by the content of my character - which is me, my name, my culture. In some areas that aligns with most of my ancestors, but its not determinative.

[bobbyw24]

It's actually a negative sum game. "Zero sum" refers to the fact that any options in the game have zero effect on the aggregate "wealth" or "value" to the entire group of players.

In the case of the State, the more resources spent on divisiveness and welfare redistribution, the less capital structure that's made possible, and the less incentive to be "more rich" than your neighbors - creating a system with less overall wealth than one without the option of redistribution.

I stand corrected--thanks for the clarification

[Nate]

The census form has a space for "other." I think I'll just call myself and the rest of my family "human."

+1

[Standing Like A Rock]

I am pretty sure that Arabs are considered caucasian.

[ItsTime]

I always call myself African American because I believe all humans came from Africa ;)

[Standing Like A Rock]

I always call myself African American because I believe all humans came from Africa ;)

I've always joked with my friends about that.

[erowe1]

I always call myself African American because I believe all humans came from Africa ;)

I occasionally call myself a Native American, since I was born here.

[revolutionisnow]

They have a pretty good point. If you are collecting statistics, why not do it properly? Wonder if they also fall under this classification regarding things such as small business loans, college entrance, and government contracts, as people who are classified as a minority get preferential treatment there. I would think Muslims/Middle Easterners are the most discriminated against these days, and isn't the goal of programs like those to offset discrimination?

[ItsTime]

I've always joked with my friends about that.

I actually did it when I was in high school on my SATs. I earned a 1250 on the test and received a ton of scholarship opportunities in the mail from black organizations. My friend who put Caucasian on his info and who scored in the well into the 1300s did not receive anything. :eek:

[bobbyw24]

I am pretty sure that Arabs are considered caucasian.

They are

[Bman]

My Ancestors were Palantine immigrants. Where's my selection dammit!

Simply laughable needing to know someones race.

[catdd]

I wonder if an Irish/Greek Hillbilly could get in on affirmative action?

[bobbyw24]

I wonder if an Irish/Greek Hillbilly could get in on affirmative action?

Not enough color to be a person of color

[Dunedain]

I wonder if an Irish/Greek Hillbilly could get in on affirmative action?

Yeah, no. You have the white privilege to be discriminated against if you are Irish/Greek. You're skin is still white. Therefore, you are an enemy of the state like the other 200 million of us.

I once took a trip to the look Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to gather some info. I was shocked that every single person was non-white except myself.

[catdd]

Damn.

[bobbyw24]

Yeah, no. You have the white privilege to be discriminated against if you are Irish/Greek. You're skin is still white. Therefore, you are an enemy of the state like the other 200 million of us.

I once took a trip to the look Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to gather some info. I was shocked that every single person was non-white except myself.

Earlier discussion on White Privilege


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=221764&highlight=stossel

[nbhadja]

They have a pretty good point. If you are collecting statistics, why not do it properly? Wonder if they also fall under this classification regarding things such as small business loans, college entrance, and government contracts, as people who are classified as a minority get preferential treatment there. I would think Muslims/Middle Easterners are the most discriminated against these days, and isn't the goal of programs like those to offset discrimination?

Those programs only cause more discrimination.

[nbhadja]

Yeah, no. You have the white privilege to be discriminated against if you are Irish/Greek. You're skin is still white. Therefore, you are an enemy of the state like the other 200 million of us.

I once took a trip to the look Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to gather some info. I was shocked that every single person was non-white except myself.

I am Indian and we never get any benefits from Affirmative Action. In fact AA discriminates against us and other asians.

Blacks, latinos, and native americans are the ones who benefit from AA.

[kpitcher]

The census form has a space for "other." I think I'll just call myself and the rest of my family "human."

I've heard stories of people always checking other and then getting minority grants down the road.

[revolutionisnow]

Those programs only cause more discrimination.

Oh I know how they work and strongly oppose them because of it, I was just showing the hypocrisy of it given the stated goal.

[RM918]

Not enough color to be a person of color

Which is odd. Isn't white the presence of all colors, while black is the complete absence of them?

[LibForestPaul]

Are arabs, jews and other semitic races counted as "white" currently in our census? What about White Russians?

This will be opening of pandora box, there is so many types of people who may look white to the untrained eye but do not have fully authentic white genes.

I am not sure you understand what is happening. Here is the 2000 census:
7. Is Person 1 Spanish/Hispanic/Latino? Mark # the "No" box if not Spanish /Hispanic /Latino.
*No, not Spanish / Hispanic / Latino *Yes, Puerto Rican
*Yes, Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano *Yes, Cuban
*Yes, other Spanish / Hispanic / Latino — Print group.

8. What is Person 1’s race? Mark # one or more races to indicate what this person considers himself/herself to be.
*White
*Black, African Am., or Negro
*American Indian or Alaska Native — Print name of enrolled or principal tribe.
*Asian Indian *Japanese *Native Hawaiian
*Chinese *Korean *Guamanian or Chamorro
*Filipino *Vietnamese *Samoan
*Other Pacific Islander — Print race.
*Other Asian — Print race.
*Some other race — Print race.



Please note Vietnamese, Korean, but not Cambodia or Singaporean...
Note, no European break out (hence previously thread about EEOC makes sense regarding whites)
Black, Negro, African Am. - not sure what countries this choice refers to.

[james1906]

Not enough color to be a person of color

Ironic, the Greeks and Irish are known for being colorful.

[Dunedain]

I am Indian and we never get any benefits from Affirmative Action. In fact AA discriminates against us and other asians.

Blacks, latinos, and native americans are the ones who benefit from AA.

First of all, I work with a lot of Indians and have been to India. Generally, very hard working and honest.

Have you ever thought why there are so many Indian's in IT? It's affirmative action. They get jobs because there are non-white quotas to fill. I know. I'm a project manager for a large IT company. But we have a TERRIBLE time trying to fill the positions with blacks. For whatever reason you can't find a black programmer in the city of Detroit to save your life

Enter Indians. They can do the work AND have brown skin. Let's call it "Brown Privilege"? Keep in mind, this is nothing you have done wrong yourself. But you are benefiting from a system of racial discrimination against people of European decent.

[jsu718]

I am not sure you understand what is happening. Here is the 2000 census:
7. Is Person 1 Spanish/Hispanic/Latino? Mark # the "No" box if not Spanish /Hispanic /Latino.
*No, not Spanish / Hispanic / Latino *Yes, Puerto Rican
*Yes, Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano *Yes, Cuban
*Yes, other Spanish / Hispanic / Latino — Print group.

8. What is Person 1’s race? Mark # one or more races to indicate what this person considers himself/herself to be.
*White
*Black, African Am., or Negro
*American Indian or Alaska Native — Print name of enrolled or principal tribe.
*Asian Indian *Japanese *Native Hawaiian
*Chinese *Korean *Guamanian or Chamorro
*Filipino *Vietnamese *Samoan
*Other Pacific Islander — Print race.
*Other Asian — Print race.
*Some other race — Print race.



Please note Vietnamese, Korean, but not Cambodia or Singaporean...
Note, no European break out (hence previously thread about EEOC makes sense regarding whites)
Black, Negro, African Am. - not sure what countries this choice refers to.

Race quite often doesn't have anything to do with country of origin... hence why people question white people that were actually born in South Africa for checking African American.

This still doesn't take into account all those millions of people that have multiple ethnic identities like Tiger Woods (who is predominantly Thai) or even Barack Obama. I would think at this point unless they can allow for a % or at least multiple check boxes then even asking the question makes no sense.

[BlackTerrel]

Yeah, no. You have the white privilege to be discriminated against if you are Irish/Greek. You're skin is still white. Therefore, you are an enemy of the state like the other 200 million of us.

Where does your persecution complex come from? White people are enemies of the state and non-white people are not... you really think that? And how did this come to be - white people are so dumb as to vote for people that hate white people?

[Dr.3D]

Where does your persecution complex come from? White people are enemies of the state and non-white people are not... you really think that? And how did this come to be - white people are so dumb as to vote for people that hate white people?

Could happen. Maybe they thought the persons they voted for were not prejudice but were actually incorrect in their thinking.

[Dunedain]

Where does your persecution complex come from? White people are enemies of the state and non-white people are not... you really think that? And how did this come to be - white people are so dumb as to vote for people that hate white people?

I've been programmed since birth by years of television that racism is the ultimate evil. Racism against people who are (say it with me W-H-I-T-E) is the in thing nowadays and that is the current ultimate evil. Therefore, I will destroy the ultimate evil as I am programmed. And there is a whole generation of people that are just like me blinking their eyes waking up to this like Rip Van Winkle. I see the awakening to end racism toward those of European decent all over this board for example. It is a trend that will continue until the racism is terminated...I suggest you get on board or become an enemy of this cause of liberty.

Government is the main purveyor of this racism which is institutional. There will be a new civil rights movement and the purveyors of racism against whites (the haters) have created the very conditions that will defeat them.

Just look at all the institutional race based hiring that discriminates against whites in government. Look at the difficulties whites face entering college because of the color of their skin. That is just the beginning. You probably had no idea about this. You can be forgiven for this...However, do you think the color of my skin dictates whether or not my beautiful little daughter can eat or not? You are sick if you agree with these programs. Do you?

[catdd]

Politicians are terrified of being called racist so they have taken to persecuting whites to prove they are not.

[jmdrake]

They are

Maybe they are, but that's not accurate. Arabs are as "caucasian" as Puerto Ricans.

[Dunedain]

Maybe they are, but that's not accurate. Arabs are as "caucasian" as Puerto Ricans.

Arabs are a separate race. Although many people who live in the middle east are white and are not Arab. For example, most of the leaders of Iran and Syria and Lebanon are white.

[BlackTerrel]

I've been programmed since birth by years of television that racism is the ultimate evil. Racism against people who are (say it with me W-H-I-T-E) is the in thing nowadays and that is the current ultimate evil. Therefore, I will destroy the ultimate evil as I am programmed.

This isn't the Matrix. No one is programmed to destroy anyone.


Government is the main purveyor of this racism which is institutional. There will be a new civil rights movement and the purveyors of racism against whites (the haters) have created the very conditions that will defeat them.

Who created these conditions? White people electing a mainly white government created a society where whites are persecuted? Doesn't sound very logical...


Just look at all the institutional race based hiring that discriminates against whites in government. Look at the difficulties whites face entering college because of the color of their skin. That is just the beginning. You probably had no idea about this. You can be forgiven for this...However, do you think the color of my skin dictates whether or not my beautiful little daughter can eat or not? You are sick if you agree with these programs. Do you?

Spare me the drama. Your little daughter can't eat now? Because of affirmative action? Please stop the bullshit. The system is not stacked against you, perhaps if you spent more time working on bettering yourself rather than worrying about what non-whites were up to you wouldn't worry about having enough food on the table to feed your kids.

I can't stand complainers and people who want to blame everyone else for their problems. If you are broke and can't feed your daughter then don't blame me.

[Mini-Me]

First of all, I work with a lot of Indians and have been to India. Generally, very hard working and honest.

Have you ever thought why there are so many Indian's in IT? It's affirmative action. They get jobs because there are non-white quotas to fill. I know. I'm a project manager for a large IT company. But we have a TERRIBLE time trying to fill the positions with blacks. For whatever reason you can't find a black programmer in the city of Detroit to save your life

Enter Indians. They can do the work AND have brown skin. Let's call it "Brown Privilege"? Keep in mind, this is nothing you have done wrong yourself. But you are benefiting from a system of racial discrimination against people of European decent.

At least in the case of Affirmative Action in universities, I believe nbhadja is right. It may be different in the workplace, but Indians and other Asians are actually discriminated against noticeably more than white people when it comes to university admissions. Although AA causes more qualified white students to be passed up in favor of underrepresented minorities, quota systems place a cap on the number of Indians and Asians that can enroll, beyond which no more are admitted. Basically, this quota policy is created in the fear that a strict meritocracy would result in a supermajority of Indian and Asian students at top universities, to the exclusion of white students and traditionally underrepresented minorities alike. ;)

[BlackTerrel]

At least in the case of Affirmative Action in universities, I believe nbhadja is right. It may be different in the workplace, but Indians and other Asians are actually discriminated against noticeably more than white people when it comes to university admissions. Although AA causes more qualified white students to be passed up in favor of underrepresented minorities, quota systems place a cap on the number of Indians and Asians that can enroll, beyond which no more are admitted. Basically, this quota policy is created in the fear that a strict meritocracy would result in a supermajority of Indian and Asian students at top universities, to the exclusion of white students and traditionally underrepresented minorities alike. ;)

Walk around Stanford campus sometime. Probably about half Indian/Asian... puts a bit of a damper on Dunedain's claims of white racial supremacy though.

[Flash]

Are arabs, jews and other semitic races counted as "white" currently in our census? What about White Russians?

This will be opening of pandora box, there is so many types of people who may look white to the untrained eye but do not have fully authentic white genes.

I don't know about that. Most middle easterners, especially the ones that immigrate here to the states, are essentially Mediterranean whites. I would have a hard time telling a Syrian or Lebanese person apart from a tan-skinned Greek or Italian person.

[nbhadja]

First of all, I work with a lot of Indians and have been to India. Generally, very hard working and honest.

Have you ever thought why there are so many Indian's in IT? It's affirmative action. They get jobs because there are non-white quotas to fill. I know. I'm a project manager for a large IT company. But we have a TERRIBLE time trying to fill the positions with blacks. For whatever reason you can't find a black programmer in the city of Detroit to save your life

Enter Indians. They can do the work AND have brown skin. Let's call it "Brown Privilege"? Keep in mind, this is nothing you have done wrong yourself. But you are benefiting from a system of racial discrimination against people of European decent.

The system does not only discriminate against Europeans as Asians are penalized as well. The quota penalizes success regardless of race. For example- Since Asians score well, there are quotas against Asians for entry into colleges, medical schools etc. An Asian and European must get a higher score to get into the same college compared to a Latino, Black etc.

There are so many Indians in IT because the country of India produces that much. I was born here in America and love America a lot more than India but let's be honest, the educational system in India is way better than here in America.

American colleges are a joke compared to places like India. This is one reason why Indian immigrants are in high demand in jobs like that.

You have to look at scores. Indians never get acceptance into anything with less than average scores like Latinos, Blacks, Native Americans do. In fact Indians need to get higher than average scores to get in because they want to create artificial diversity through racial discrimination.

[nbhadja]

At least in the case of Affirmative Action in universities, I believe nbhadja is right. It may be different in the workplace, but Indians and other Asians are actually discriminated against noticeably more than white people when it comes to university admissions. Although AA causes more qualified white students to be passed up in favor of underrepresented minorities, quota systems place a cap on the number of Indians and Asians that can enroll, beyond which no more are admitted. Basically, this quota policy is created in the fear that a strict meritocracy would result in a supermajority of Indian and Asian students at top universities, to the exclusion of white students and traditionally underrepresented minorities alike. ;)

+1

It buggs me a lot when they say that AA benefits minorities. It only benefits Blacks, Latinos and Native Americans. Asians are royally screwed by AA.

http://www.browndailyherald.com/2.12237/without-affirmative-action-asian-admission-rates-rise-1.1671413

In the absence of affirmative action laws, admission rates at public universities have risen for Asian-American students, while numbers for white, black and Hispanic students have declined, according to a recent study.

http://www.capolicycenter.org/ct_0495/ctn1_0495.html

Backers of the present policies deplore the consequences. "Color blind admissions at UCLA would mean 60 percent Asian American and 40 percent white students," warned UC Regent Ralph Carmona. "What kind of scenario is it if half of the high school graduates are Hispanics and less than half of one percent are at UC?" Admissions officials interviewed for this article agree, saying that even middle-class African Americans and Latinos would be shut out if the initiative becomes law.

Unbelievable that such a racist program like AA exists.

[jsu718]

+1

It buggs me a lot when they say that AA benefits minorities. It only benefits Blacks, Latinos and Native Americans. Asians are royally screwed by AA.

http://www.browndailyherald.com/2.12237/without-affirmative-action-asian-admission-rates-rise-1.1671413

In the absence of affirmative action laws, admission rates at public universities have risen for Asian-American students, while numbers for white, black and Hispanic students have declined, according to a recent study.

http://www.capolicycenter.org/ct_0495/ctn1_0495.html

Backers of the present policies deplore the consequences. "Color blind admissions at UCLA would mean 60 percent Asian American and 40 percent white students," warned UC Regent Ralph Carmona. "What kind of scenario is it if half of the high school graduates are Hispanics and less than half of one percent are at UC?" Admissions officials interviewed for this article agree, saying that even middle-class African Americans and Latinos would be shut out if the initiative becomes law.

Unbelievable that such a racist program like AA exists.

The "consequences" assume that equal percentages of each race would choose to pursue a college degree. Most of the studies show that those students accepted due to AA policies do not end up graduating... that's a lot of money thrown away for 4 years of tuition and 4 years of not working to end up in the same place as you started. College graduation rates are fairly well predicted by high school GPA, SAT/ACT scores, and aptitude tests... at least when combined. Separately they don't, but AA policies intentionally remove the ability to use these measures because race/wealth are more important in their eyes. I wish politicians would quit viewing schools as a chance for more social engineering and get back to looking at them for systems to educate students.

[catdd]

"Who created these conditions? White people electing a mainly white government created a society where whites are persecuted? Doesn't sound very logical..."

You act like we've had a choice or something. And besides, Whites are not the only people that vote.

[Dunedain]

Walk around Stanford campus sometime. Probably about half Indian/Asian... puts a bit of a damper on Dunedain's claims of white racial supremacy though.

I'm claiming that whites are the only group victimized by insitutional racism in the U.S.A. Example: if you are white you have an racial handicap when trying to get into Universities.


Read about the institutional racism here.
http://www.adversity.net/education_2_michu_1.htm

This has been documented by many universities and their have been lawsuits about it. The University Of Michigan sent out a letter to a white woman saying she wasn't racially fit to attend the school.
As I said, it's institutional racism and is championed by the federal government. It is also something you support apparently.

Blackterrel - do you support this institutionalized racism against only people who are white?

[Dunedain]

+1

It buggs me a lot when they say that AA benefits minorities. It only benefits Blacks, Latinos and Native Americans. Asians are royally screwed by AA.

http://www.browndailyherald.com/2.12237/without-affirmative-action-asian-admission-rates-rise-1.1671413

In the absence of affirmative action laws, admission rates at public universities have risen for Asian-American students, while numbers for white, black and Hispanic students have declined, according to a recent study.

http://www.capolicycenter.org/ct_0495/ctn1_0495.html

Backers of the present policies deplore the consequences. "Color blind admissions at UCLA would mean 60 percent Asian American and 40 percent white students," warned UC Regent Ralph Carmona. "What kind of scenario is it if half of the high school graduates are Hispanics and less than half of one percent are at UC?" Admissions officials interviewed for this article agree, saying that even middle-class African Americans and Latinos would be shut out if the initiative becomes law.

Unbelievable that such a racist program like AA exists.


When I spoke of AA I was speaking of ALL programs that favor people who are non-white not just college admissions.

Example: many BlueCross plans will only do business with a company that is Minority Owned or have a minority workforce. You can actually be "certified" as non-white so you can do business with entities that required it, like the governmetn. Just do a search...here is one.

http://www.bcbst.com/about/news/releases/default.asp?release=280

[stu2002]

Thanks for bringing much needed balance in this area, Dunedain

[RM918]

Walk around Stanford campus sometime. Probably about half Indian/Asian... puts a bit of a damper on Dunedain's claims of white racial supremacy though.

It has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with culture.

[Dunedain]

It has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with culture.

I think you mean that Asians study hard because it is a cultural thing for them and that is why they are over-represented at universities. This is true for Korean and Japanese societies. They all study desperately to get into top universities...but they are notoriously lazy once they finally get accepted (in their countries of origin). It is mostly a place to network and drink excessively with other intelligent people. Obviously, they could do the work but the culture in NE Asia is not to work very hard in university.

However all other Asian's, Indian's and Chinese as well as Thai, Vietnamese, Burmese, Indonesian, etc, etc are mostly uneducated and semi-literate in their own society and have a culture of substandard education for the common person.

[Morgan Brykein]

The census form has a space for "other." I think I'll just call myself and the rest of my family "human."

Heh, that is exactly what I was going to do!

[stu2002]

Welcome Morgan

[nbhadja]

I think you mean that Asians study hard because it is a cultural thing for them and that is why they are over-represented at universities. This is true for Korean and Japanese societies. They all study desperately to get into top universities...but they are notoriously lazy once they finally get accepted (in their countries of origin). It is mostly a place to network and drink excessively with other intelligent people. Obviously, they could do the work but the culture in NE Asia is not to work very hard in university.

However all other Asian's, Indian's and Chinese as well as Thai, Vietnamese, Burmese, Indonesian, etc, etc are mostly uneducated and semi-literate in their own society and have a culture of substandard education for the common person.

I am sorry but you proved that you do not know anything about Asia or Asians. Even in their own countries they study very hard once in college.

Asians work extremely hard in college, med school etc. Their pass rates are very high.

You do realize that Asian education systems are 10 times better than the American education system?

And your little theory that only whites are affected when it comes to jobs is flat out incorrect. Entry into Med school, engineering school, dental school etc is basically a job acceptance and the quotas against Asians proves that they are discriminated against while looking for a job as well.

[nbhadja]

When I spoke of AA I was speaking of ALL programs that favor people who are non-white not just college admissions.

Example: many BlueCross plans will only do business with a company that is Minority Owned or have a minority workforce. You can actually be "certified" as non-white so you can do business with entities that required it, like the governmetn. Just do a search...here is one.

http://www.bcbst.com/about/news/releases/default.asp?release=280

When America talks about minorities they do not mean all minorities- they only mean struggling minorities.

Example- Indians are the richest race in America but most wealthy Indians are either doctors, dentists, investors or hotel owners. Not once do they ever recieve any benefit for being a minority in those fields period. In fact they are only discriminated against.

AA discriminates the most against Indians and other Asians in education yet you think AA then somehow helps Indians and Asians to get a job?

That could not be futher from the truth.

[BlackTerrel]

This has been documented by many universities and their have been lawsuits about it. The University Of Michigan sent out a letter to a white woman saying she wasn't racially fit to attend the school.

How is it possible that she was not racially fit to attend this school? Have you ever been to Michigan? Check out this stadium of 100,000 at UMichigan? I'd guarantee you it is about 95% white.

YouTube - University Of Michigan Football Crowd Action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCRzuAzZ3D8)


Blackterrel - do you support this institutionalized racism against only people who are white?

Why do you keep ignoring that it is not only against whites. No I don't support it but your claims that it is oppressing you and bringing you down are laughable? Spend less time complaining about it and more time working and you'll be better off - trust me.

[BlackTerrel]

I think you mean that Asians study hard because it is a cultural thing for them and that is why they are over-represented at universities. This is true for Korean and Japanese societies. They all study desperately to get into top universities...but they are notoriously lazy once they finally get accepted (in their countries of origin). It is mostly a place to network and drink excessively with other intelligent people. Obviously, they could do the work but the culture in NE Asia is not to work very hard in university.

However all other Asian's, Indian's and Chinese as well as Thai, Vietnamese, Burmese, Indonesian, etc, etc are mostly uneducated and semi-literate in their own society and have a culture of substandard education for the common person.

Are there any non-white peoples that are any good?

[Mandrik]

When it lists race, these are the options that should be listed:

Elf
Dwarf
Pixie
Gnome
Human
Other (specify below)

[torchbearer]

When it lists race, these are the options that should be listed:

Elf
Dwarf
Pixie
Gnome
Human
Other (specify below)

I usually go with human because the stats are generally more balanced.

[revolutionisnow]

How is it possible that she was not racially fit to attend this school? Have you ever been to Michigan? Check out this stadium of 100,000 at UMichigan? I'd guarantee you it is about 95% white.


Why do you keep ignoring that it is not only against whites. No I don't support it but your claims that it is oppressing you and bringing you down are laughable? Spend less time complaining about it and more time working and you'll be better off - trust me.

"African American students as well as some Hispanic and Native American students applying to the University of Michigan "receive 20 points out of a maximum of 150, not because of any academic achievement or life experience, but solely because they are African American, Hispanic or Native American.

"To put this in perspective, a perfect SAT score is worth only 12 points in the Michigan system. Students who accumulate 100 points are generally admitted, so those 20 points awarded solely based on race are often the decisive factor," he said."

http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/20030116affirmnp1.asp

I was also unaware that Stanford had ethnic themed dorms. I would guess that is one factor as to why there are such a large Asian population that goes there. The same way that some blacks want to attend a black college for the fellowship experience, maybe some asians want the same. I'm sure there are many other factors, like say the overall large asian population of California.

[RM918]

When it lists race, these are the options that should be listed:

Elf
Dwarf
Pixie
Gnome
Human
Other (specify below)

Dwarves are real, man!

[Mini-Me]

Dwarves are real, man!

Of course they are, and so are humans. That's why Mandrik listed them, silly. I'm flabbergasted that hobbits are missing from the list though.

[James Madison]

I usually go with human because the stats are generally more balanced.

I go with Elf. It's all about the magic.:D

[BlackTerrel]

"African American students as well as some Hispanic and Native American students applying to the University of Michigan "receive 20 points out of a maximum of 150, not because of any academic achievement or life experience, but solely because they are African American, Hispanic or Native American.

http://www.post-gazette.com/nation/20030116affirmnp1.asp

Ok but that doesn't answer my question. Why would a white girl get a letter saying she was "racially unfit" to attend UMichigan as Dunedain claimed? Watch a Michigan football game, there are 100,000 people in the crowd and 95% of them are white. Clearly white people do not have trouble getting into this school. You guys are just trying to throw up as much shit against the wall as you can with the hope that something sticks. None of these arguments make any sense.


I was also unaware that Stanford had ethnic themed dorms. I would guess that is one factor as to why there are such a large Asian population that goes there. The same way that some blacks want to attend a black college for the fellowship experience, maybe some asians want the same. I'm sure there are many other factors, like say the overall large asian population of California.

Or perhaps because Asian kids excel academically? But I guess that wouldn't mesh with y'alls agenda. So go ahead keep making excuses.

[Dieseler]

Ok but that doesn't answer my question. Why would a white girl get a letter saying she was "racially unfit" to attend UMichigan as Dunedain claimed? Watch a Michigan football game, there are 100,000 people in the crowd and 95% of them are white. Clearly white people do not have trouble getting into this school. You guys are just trying to throw up as much shit against the wall as you can with the hope that something sticks. None of these arguments make any sense.



Or perhaps because Asian kids excel academically? But I guess that wouldn't mesh with y'alls agenda. So go ahead keep making excuses.

I'm not getting into this argument ... this is your thing man, but..
You don't really think 100,000 people go to school at the University of Michigan do you?
They do sell tickets to the general public.

[jsu718]

I'm not getting into this argument ... this is your thing man, but..
You don't really think 100,000 people go to school at the University of Michigan do you?
They do sell tickets to the general public.

41,000 current students, 460,000 alumi. While Michigan is 80% white, UofM is only 58% white... although that is only current students. Alumni are a whole different story, but I doubt the 95% number is anywhere near accurate.

[Dieseler]

41,000 current students, 460,000 alumi. While Michigan is 80% white, UofM is only 58% white... although that is only current students. Alumni are a whole different story, but I doubt the 95% number is anywhere near accurate.

Interesting.
That's a lot of students.

[BlackTerrel]

41,000 current students, 460,000 alumi. While Michigan is 80% white, UofM is only 58% white... although that is only current students. Alumni are a whole different story, but I doubt the 95% number is anywhere near accurate.

I imagine most people at those games are students or alumni. Do you have a link for the 58% and 80% figures?

I have no reason to doubt you so assuming those are true I still wonder why a white student would receive a letter saying she was "racially unfit" to attend the school as Dunedain claimed? Clearly 58% of the school is white and yet somehow got in.

[Dunedain]

Why would a white girl get a letter saying she was "racially unfit" to attend UMichigan as Dunedain claimed?


The University of Michigan discriminates against whites because they are racist. The University of Michigan is run by people who don't like whites. Many of them are white-white haters. Some are Jewish-white haters, some are black white-haters. All are haters, all are racist.

There was a huge referendum on racist hiring and college admissions all over Michigan. We rejected it overwhelmingly...except for black Detroit who apparently loves racial based hiring and college admin because it favors them. There were NAACP signs all over the city to get blacks to vote for racial preferences.

[jsu718]

I imagine most people at those games are students or alumni. Do you have a link for the 58% and 80% figures?

I have no reason to doubt you so assuming those are true I still wonder why a white student would receive a letter saying she was "racially unfit" to attend the school as Dunedain claimed? Clearly 58% of the school is white and yet somehow got in.

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/obpinfo/files/umaa_enrl.pdf
Page 8

And the Michigan info is easy to find, but here is where it says 80%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Michigan

Both numbers are as of 2008

[BlackTerrel]

http://sitemaker.umich.edu/obpinfo/files/umaa_enrl.pdf
Page 8

And the Michigan info is easy to find, but here is where it says 80%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Michigan

Both numbers are as of 2008

Ok thanks. I did the calculations and whites are 72% of UMich student population. I ignored people that didn't indicate race. Here are the numbers from your link:

1840 blacks
1215 Hispanics
235 Native Americans
3091 Asians
22,522 whites

So 72% whites in a state that is 80% white. And I imagine that whites in general are an older population so this probably stacks up pretty close to what the college age population is in Michigan. Note that the biggest non-white group by far (Asians) does not benefit from affirmative action.

[BlackTerrel]

The University of Michigan discriminates against whites because they are racist. The University of Michigan is run by people who don't like whites. Many of them are white-white haters. Some are Jewish-white haters, some are black white-haters. All are haters, all are racist.

See my post above. Whites are 72% of UMichigan students - where is the evidence that they hate white people?

And what about this girl you claim receiving a letter saying she was racially unfit to attend the school? How did those 22,522 students slip in but yet she was deemed racially unfit? Your arguments make no sense.

[jsu718]

Ok thanks. I did the calculations and whites are 72% of UMich student population. I ignored people that didn't indicate race. Here are the numbers from your link:

1840 blacks
1215 Hispanics
235 Native Americans
3091 Asians
22,522 whites

So 72% whites in a state that is 80% white. And I imagine that whites in general are an older population so this probably stacks up pretty close to what the college age population is in Michigan. Note that the biggest non-white group by far (Asians) does not benefit from affirmative action.

65% undergrad are white, 47% graduate... It isn't a lack of indication of race. It is "other".

[BlackTerrel]

65% undergrad are white, 47% graduate... It isn't a lack of indication of race. It is "other".

It says "other/no indication" which I imagine is people who didn't fill in race for the most part. I didn't fill in race when I applied - that is an option that many people choose.

Either way I'm not going to argue it. I am still wondering how this white girl that Dunedain knows received a letter saying she was racially unfit to attend the school when the majority of the students are white.

Like a lot of the arguments in this thread it sounds like a lot of BS.

[LibForestPaul]

I know of Jewish North African(Egpyt?) who claimed he was of African descent. Worked for him! Got a special dinner and everything for minority students.(Before they started breaking out Africa to Negro and such). Some other whites he told this to seemed pissed. HAHA!

I thought it was cool. I know I checked my family tree for any special minority status. Could not find anything except possible Native American (but too sketchy).

[erowe1]

I thought it was cool. I know I checked my family tree for any special minority status. Could not find anything except possible Native American (but too sketchy).

It's not sketchy at all. Nowadays race is defined solely by one's self-identity. You can call yourself whatever race you want, and that act of calling yourself that is all it takes to be recognized as that race legally, and there are no objective criteria by which your claim could be denied no matter what you look like or who your ancestors were.

[American Nationalist]

I am part Lebanese on my father's side, . But they weren't Arabs, they consider themselves Phonecians and look more Greek/Armenian. The Lebanese people I know form my Dad's old neighborhood always considered themselves white and looked such. There are obviously arabs in the middle east but not all people in the middle east are arabs. However, I still support an Arab classification for those who are Arab. That question also leads to Iranians. They obviously aren't Arab, but they ain't all white, so do you put them under Asian? Maybe I would feel differently if I wasn't also Italian, Scottish, British, and Dutch, but I never considered my Lebanese heritage as non white. Middle easterner describes several nationalities, but it doesn't describe a race.

[Dunedain]

I am part Lebanese on my father's side, . But they weren't Arabs, they consider themselves Phonecians and look more Greek/Armenian. The Lebanese people I know form my Dad's old neighborhood always considered themselves white and looked such. There are obviously arabs in the middle east but not all people in the middle east are arabs. However, I still support an Arab classification for those who are Arab. That question also leads to Iranians. They obviously aren't Arab, but they ain't all white, so do you put them under Asian? Maybe I would feel differently if I wasn't also Italian, Scottish, British, and Dutch, but I never considered my Lebanese heritage as non white. Middle easterner describes several nationalities, but it doesn't describe a race.

I think you're 90% there. Lebanese and Iranian are a nationalities. Arab and white are races. Many Lebanese are white, many are Arab and many are a racial admixture. It's my experience that most of the upper-class Lebanese are white.

Iranians are in exactly the same boat. They have a mixed race society since the Arab invasion into Persia centuries ago. Both whites and arabs live in Iran.

[American Nationalist]

I think you're 90% there. Lebanese and Iranian are a nationalities. Arab and white are races. Many Lebanese are white, many are Arab and many are a racial admixture. It's my experience that most of the upper-class Lebanese are white.

Iranians are in exactly the same boat. They have a mixed race society since the Arab invasion into Persia centuries ago. Both whites and arabs live in Iran.

...

[erowe1]

Arab and white are races.

I disagree. I use other arbitrary physical features to divide people into races instead of melanin levels, such as right and left-handedness, whether or not someone has a widows peak, and whether their ring fingers are longer than their index fingers or vice versa.

[American Nationalist]

I think you're 90% there. Lebanese and Iranian are a nationalities. Arab and white are races. Many Lebanese are white, many are Arab and many are a racial admixture. It's my experience that most of the upper-class Lebanese are white.

Iranians are in exactly the same boat. They have a mixed race society since the Arab invasion into Persia centuries ago. Both whites and arabs live in Iran.

Exactly, you have crypto zionists with african ancestry like Brigette Gabriel.

http://www.cufima.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/b2.jpg

But you have white Christians and Muslims. This is an example of a white lebanese guy.

http://www.flagshag.com/shirtmodels/asiancoats/lebanon.jpg

[Dunedain]

Exactly, you have crypto zionists with african ancestry like Brigette Gabriel.

http://www.cufima.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/b2.jpg

But you have white Christians and Muslims. This is an example of a white lebanese guy.

http://www.flagshag.com/shirtmodels/asiancoats/lebanon.jpg

I've tried to explain this to people before. When I hear "conservatives" saying that Arab countires like Lebanon/Syria/Iran deserve to be invaded by Israel and carpet bombed by America I try to explain...but then you get this deer in the headlights look.

Some Arabs are Christian
Some Whites are Christian
Some Arabs are Muslim
Some Whites are Muslim

[Flash]

Yes being arab is just a culture. Lebanese, Syrians, etc.. are closely related to greeks & other south euros. Infact most lebs that I see can't be distinguished from Greeks. Just look at 'arab' Ralph Nader.

[American Nationalist]

I've tried to explain this to people before. When I hear "conservatives" saying that Arab countires like Lebanon/Syria/Iran deserve to be invaded by Israel and carpet bombed by America I try to explain...but then you get this deer in the headlights look.

Some Arabs are Christian
Some Whites are Christian
Some Arabs are Muslim
Some Whites are Muslim

They don't know the difference between race and religion and are fueled by zionist incited anti islamic hate. Many also don't realize there were several Christian and Armenian Groups in the March 8th Alliance. Many don't understand that Hezbollah is anti zionist, they aren't anti Christian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_8_Alliance

[Dunedain]

Dunedain, I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about.

The word Arab in itself isn't very clear, Ethnic Arabs are usually from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, the Gulf States. However Mediterranean Arabs, like Lebanese, Syrian, Egyptian, and Palestinian, are different shades and most don't resemble on what the typical American thinks of an "Arab"

It's not unusal to be confused about middle-eastern peoples.

An Arab is a race of people from Northern Africa and the Saudi penisula. They are generally have an olive colored skin tone. These are typical what Americans think of as Arabs.

Mediterrean "arabs" that are light complexion as you mention are not really Arabs. They are white Europeans and their countries have had massive Arab immigration/invasion over the centuries. For example Turkey was a white, Christian, European country for centuries, but than Arab Muslims invaded centuries ago and took it over.

[American Nationalist]

Dunedain, I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about.
I've been to the Middle East and can tell you there is no "white" ethnicity, the just "Arabs", and most Arabs on the Mediterranean have white skin.

What makes a person ethnically white? lol

The word Arab in itself isn't very clear, Ethnic Arabs are usually from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, the Gulf States. However Mediterranean Arabs, like Lebanese, Syrian, Egyptian, and Palestinian, are different shades and most don't resemble on what the typical American thinks of an "Arab"

How they look. He is an example of a Lebanese arab

http://www.marchrise.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/250px-hassan_nasrallah.jpg

He doesn't look much different then an Israeli rabbi. Both are "semitic".
http://www.havelshouseofhistory.com/Levy,%20Y.%20Photo0001.jpg

Here are white Lebanese people, of Phonecian origin
http://www.flagshag.com/shirtmodels/asiancoats/lebanon.jpg

Ralph Nader
http://cinie.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/ralph-nader.jpg

[American Nationalist]

So how someone looks determines if someone is white or not? I understand if you are saying there is a distinction between Levantine Arabs (Mediteranean) and Gulf state Arabs, but to say that a dark Levantine Arab isn't "white" is not true, he's as white as any other Levantine Arab.

Yes, how someone looks determines if they are white. Looks are determined by genetics. You act as though I have a problem with arabs, I have no problem with them. But not all middle easterners are arab. Mitch Daniels is a another good example. He is a white middle easterner.

That said, this thread has gotten it dicey territory, I don't want to suggest anyone is lesser or inferior, I am merely pointing to the racial diversity of the middle east, they aren't all arabs. I also support the people in the OP who want to make arabs a race, they are.

[RFDAmerica]

Frankly race should not even be in the census. The government should be colorblind in all it's activities. The information will only be used to create more racist legislation.

Agreed. By favoring one group over another, the government encourages the notion that minorities are somehow inferior. One would think they would find such policies as Affirmative Action condescending, at the very least.

The government routinely says it's helping minorities, but if you dig a little deeper, you find that they're actually helping themselves to our tax dollars. When the USDA announced money for minority farmers, none of that money, not one penny, went to farmers. Check it out:

Money for Minorities: No European-Americans Need Apply (http://www.rfdamerica.com/content/money-minorities-no-european-americans-need-apply)

[American Nationalist]

I'm sorry but that simply is not true. Even Syrian and Lebanese look vastly different from Britains and Germans. This is because Syrian and Lebanese are Arabs, from the Levant.

I wouldn't say vastly different, but they look different. Just like Sicilians look different from Swedes...

http://raymondpronk.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/lucky_luciano.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41806000/jpg/_41806298_afp203bodymartin.jpg
there is a lot of ethnic range in the white race.

[Flash]

It's not unusal to be confused about middle-eastern peoples.

An Arab is a race of people from Northern Africa and the Saudi penisula. They are generally have an olive colored skin tone. These are typical what Americans think of as Arabs.

Mediterrean "arabs" that are light complexion as you mention are not really Arabs. They are white Europeans and their countries have had massive Arab immigration/invasion over the centuries. For example Turkey was a white, Christian, European country for centuries, but than Arab Muslims invaded centuries ago and took it over.


I disagree, Turkish/Anatolians are still 'white' for the most part. Plus their invaders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples)were Turkic nomads (http://www.tatarworld.com/images/MONGOL_Empire_1294.gif)that converted to Islam thanks to the Pakistanis (I believe). Their language is Turkic, culture is a mix between Turkic & Euro, and their people seemed to be Asian-White mix.

Turkic Girl, blond hair-- Asian eyes (http://media-content.flixya.com.s3.amazonaws.com/files/rani84jor354919.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=1TKE66PETJJHG80 51M02&Expires=2126482644&Signature=pNnNJ7E01eG%2Fye9Im9NOel0aB%2Bw%3D)

Turk girls (http://im.in.com/media/download/wallpapers/2009/May/turkish_girls_euro_2008_420x315.jpg)

Same goes for Albanians (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=albanian%20people&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) & Chechens (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=chechen%20people&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi). Basically they're just whites with islam for a religion. Like a lot of Europeans converted to christianity for political reasons, many converted to Islam for same reason.



That said, this thread has gotten it dicey territory, I don't want to suggest anyone is lesser or inferior, I am merely pointing to the racial diversity of the middle east, they aren't all arabs. I also support the people in the OP who want to make arabs a race, they are.

Middle Eastern ethnic groups are Indo-European (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/IE_expansion.png)/white (Persian, Armenian, Kurds), Arabid (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nsS6f8298lIaVM:http://i40.tinypic.com/1zvcoec.jpg) (Saudis, Yemenites, etc..) And Meds-Aramaeans (http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/bellucci.jpg) (Lebs, Syrians, Palis, etc..) from my understanding.

[andrewh817]

They're so blatant with their division tactics.... it's like throwing pennies at a group of homeless people.

[jsu718]

They're so blatant with their division tactics.... it's like throwing pennies at a group of homeless people.

But it's like in the club, making it rain... although if you are like me and can't afford that you make it hail.