What to do ?

[cbc58]

This is an offshoot thread of the "I Give Up. Its Time To Shrug Like Atlas" in which I hope we can hash over ideas for how to get people more involved in changing the system and coming up with workable concepts to address the needs of the mass citizenry upon hyperinflation and probable demise of the dollar... and all that will bring.

I understand that RP's know what's going on and many are preparing... but I hope we can look at things from a broader perspective to include friends, neighbors and others who make up our communities. This may be an altruistic endeavor but in the end we are not alone and have to live and survice together... and leave something for our children.

So what are some concrete and workable actions/plans that can be put together to address the problems we know are coming?

I'll start by saying that in my opinion education of how the system works and exactly what is happening should be up there on the list. Educate people to be more knowledgeable and self sufficient and aware of the situations that effect them. That would be a start to get people involved and on the road torward local, state and national change.

[pcosmar]

Reprogram the masses of brain dead zombies that vote in this country. :(

Yes I am working on educating those within my range of influence, but we need a wide spread re-education program.

Perhaps something in the water. :rolleyes:

[FrankRep]

The Federal Government is too big of a monster to control or defeat.

Secession is the only workable solution I see.

Texas Nationalist Movement
http://www.TexasNationalist.com/

[awake]

Folks... secession is the answer, not propping up the Union; free towns, cities, and states; any size and in every manner. If it is on every level and scale they can not possibly contain it nor stop it.

One town here, another city there, maybe a few states... it does not matter, masses of people need to start walking away.

[cbc58]

Please let's concentrate on actionable items that can be taken -- and attempt to create a workable process that will give us the greatest bang for the buck in terms of effort and expense.

If we choose an end goal and reverse engineer the situation then perhaps we can come up with a workable plan. Saying: "we need to do this" doesn't get us anywhere because no one knows how to do it.

While succession may be one option... going around and promoting it will get you nowhere with the mass population and they will dismiss you as nutcases. And I really don't think anyone wants succession - they want the resulting effects of succession.

Please don't make this a succession thread - let's concentrate on things that can be done and that target the mass population. If they themselves decide that succession is the answer... let them come to their own conclusions. That's a long way off and I for one don't want to see the US broken apart. I still think there is time to make major fixes and lay the groundwork for a society that is different than the one we have today.

We need to start small and go grassroots... and get everyone involved not just RP's.

[Epic]

Free State Project...

[FrankRep]

Please let's concentrate on actionable items that can be taken -- and attempt to create a workable process that will give us the greatest bang for the buck in terms of effort and expense.

We need money to have any type of power/voice in society or government.

1.) This means we need to start being Entrepreneurs. Create businesses and generate tons of money to fund our own Pro-Liberty projects.

2.) Start buying media sources. (Radio/Newspaper/Internet)

3.) Pro-Liberty scholarships. Train people to be teachers, political officials, business leaders.

[lynnf]

The Federal Government is too big of a monster to control or defeat.

Secession is the only workable solution I see.

Texas Nationalist Movement
http://www.TexasNationalist.com/


using that logic, the Soviet Union could never have fallen... like it actually did.

you need to change your rationale.

lynn

[FrankRep]

using that logic, the Soviet Union could never have fallen... like it actually did.

lynn

The International Monetary Fund (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=182725) will bail-out the United States if we have a true potential collapse.

[cbc58]

Epic,

The Free State Project is not the answer for the masses. It is a solution for a small fraction of the population, likely less than 1/100th of 1 percent. I personally will move back to NH but not because of that...but because it's a nice place to live and I align myself more with the Yankee way of life than anywhere else. And not everyone in NH is thrilled about the FSP and many think they're nutcases. I know... because I used to live there and have many friends there.

I think FrankRep brings up some good points. The question is: how do we achieve them? Keep in mind I'm talking about trying to create a sustainable effort that perpetuates itself through citizen action and proven business practices.

What to do?

[zach]

Create the world that you want - starting with yourself and your loved ones.

[QueenB4Liberty]

Start teaching people how to grow their own food, identify edible plants in your area, find alternative sources of water, etc.

[cbc58]

I'm going to throw a couple ideas out for discussion to see if they have any merit. The basis for these ideas boils down to the fact that -- in the end -- the consumer and citizen (should) have ultimate control over the economy and political process.

People are essentially lazy and will not act unless they feel threatened by something or have no other option. 98% of the population is programmed to just let things go on as they are and that the political process works in this country. It is so evident that the system is controlled by a few and powerful and that they get what they want whenever they want it.

So here are two ideas:

1.) Create a citizen powered media/communication system that is organized and touches every voter in the country. I envison thousands of hyperlocal units that are all supported by a national entity that provides resources to operate. It can provide resources like a local newspaper and also disseminate information about all proposed legislation and get everyone involved either passivly or proactively. It can be entirely internet based and augmented by printed media if need be. Done right, it can generate revenue through ads and marketing and be self supporting and even make a profit. This can be expanded into something more than just a communication system... possibly into local cooperatives that also address basic needs like food, fuel, etc, and local barter goods-exchange systems.

2.) Create a public conglomorate company that is owned by citizens, that owns companies that provide services and supplies that they use in everyday living. For example: just about everyone purchases insurance (home, auto, medical), eats food, has a cell-phone, uses a bank, etc. Create a holding company that goes out and buys or starts an insurance company, food distribution company, technology company, financial institution, etc. So the money that is being spent now is taken away from the status-quo rip-off companies and directed into a company that it's users own. It could even get into investment banking and make huge fees and be seriously profitable. Think what would happen to the powerful investment banks if the people who now wanted to go public were part owners themselves in an investment bank. This is essentially a cooperative-consortium concept with stockholders.

If we do both of these, the current system would change because it would put the consumer and voter in control instead of the other way around.

[risk_reward]

50 things to do now from the free and unashamed"

http://fr33agents.ning.com/profiles/blogs/fifty-things-to-do-now

Easier to read version at lew http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl/50-things-to-do-now.html

1.

Become a part-time entrepreneur, garage-market-dealer, urban farmer, welder, whatever. Just be productive under your own command. It doesn’t matter what it is; just be directly productive, and directly deal with suppliers and clients. You’ll find it awesomely liberating and it will be highly useful for the free underground market.
2.

Switch off the TV. Read books!
3.

Socialize with people that share your ethics and that are productive and respectful. Eat together, discuss, challenge each other, help each other, have a good time.
4.

Get a safe or safe deposit box. Start moving all the cash you can get in there, convert at least 30% of your cash to silver and/or gold coins.
5.

Invest in trust. Do minor deals for people on a trust basis. Taking others at their word, and let yourself be challenged by yours.
6.

Start looking for matches. When you talk with people, memorize what they do, and if an opportunity comes up, connect them with someone else for a minor finders fee (a burger, a few beers, whatever).
7. Join your local LIMA house. (We’ll explain this in a future post.)

8.

Travel, but don’t go sight-seeing – spend your time getting to know the people there. Think about business opportunities with them.
9.

Start using aliases and pseudonyms. Get comfortable using them in real-life situations.
10.

Learn to use cryptography.
11.

Learn ethics and law (not the government law…).
12.

Study logic, especially the fallacies.
13.

Put more cash aside. Use your part-time job as the source of saved cash.
14.

Start to invest cash with people you know, in off the books projects. Start making micro-loans to people or buy shares in their operations.
15.

Learn basic double-entry book-keeping. Don’t waste effort on the account-numbers they teach you – understand the concept and use it.
16. Learn to write in code. We all have to use recordings, bookkeeping, contact books, transaction notes etc. These should be hard to decipher for someone taking a quick glimpse, and even hard for someone taking time to analyze them. Use tricks like date-shifting, shorthand, making up your own terms, etc. Or, if you want to spend a little more effort, learn to use memorized ciphers, such as memorizing some longer text, then apply it as a simple shifting-key to what you write, with the page number or a marker as a keypart.

17.

Tell other producers, entrepreneurs, traders etc that you appreciate what they do.
18.

Buy primarily from others like you, stay away from the on-the-books market as much as you can.
19.

When in conflict, ask someone to mediate. Solve conflicts yourself wherever you can. Use a mutually respected and trusted third party when necessary. Stay away from state “justice” whenever you can.
20.

Start respecting secrets. Secrets are good most of the time; transparency is bad most of the time. Detox yourself from the “everything should be in the open” propaganda.
21.

Slowly make your part-time, off-the-books business, your main line of income. Things like underground dental hygiene are very cool.
22.

Learn that “off-the-books” means that you really have to excel in what you do. You have to provide quality.
23.

Don’t invest in single deals; invest in relationships with the market.
24.

Get over it: Voting doesn’t help at all.
25.

Work with friends to create buying associations and selling associations. This will give you and others lots of money to save and lots of money to hide.
26.

Harbor a fugitive. (Good ones, obviously.)
27.

Help someone cross a border without documents.
28.

Offer small merchants silver or gold rather than fiat currency.
29.

Sell your products in silver or gold.
30.

Accept and use digital gold, such as Pecunix or C-gold.
31.

Start a community currency in your town.
32.

Use digital cash, such as eCache.
33.

Use Loom, Truebanc.
34.

Get serious about protecting your Internet traffic.
35.

Get comfortable working your will in the world.
36.

Learn how to work your will beneficially. This is not about being “right,” it is about causing benefit.
37.

Fix your mistakes (you will make them). Learn not to repeat them.
38.

Learn how to communicate effectively. Again, this is not about proving that you are right – this is about getting true ideas into other minds effectively.
39.

Stop obeying the state in some new way. Tell your friends about your success doing so.
40.

Get comfortable with the term “Economic Civil Disobedience.”
41. Spread the idea that the state is not magic – it is nothing more than a collection of your neighbors – no more ethical and noble than the lamer next door.

42.

Learn how to find the false assumptions in arguments. Most public lies sound okay if you don’t find their unspoken assumptions. If they pass too quickly, find the written version and search for the lie it contains.
43.

Learn how to disagree with kindness.
44.

Accept the fact that most people are confused and are just barely hanging on to their last shreds of self-esteem. Understand that state intellectuals like this condition, as it makes people easier to keep in line – a little shame goes a long way.
45.

Don’t waste your energy on the political crisis de jour. Busy your mind with more substantial things. Daily political dramas are a time-sink, and the statists like it. Stop following their script.
46.

Use jurisdictional arbitrage to deprive the state of your money. Work with friends if the setup costs are too large for you.
47.

Learn to defend yourself, your family, your neighbors and your town. No state means no military. Until you take this upon yourself, your plans will always have a gaping hole in their middle. There is no free lunch here either. Get weapons and be mentally prepared to use them. Decide in advance how and when you would use them – do not leave it to the emotion of the moment – that will make a shipwreck of the whole venture. Learn how to use them safely.
48.

Do something nice for your neighbor. The people who live near you are a far more important part of your environment than any other.
49.

Help people who suffer undeservedly. No state means you are responsible for charity. Sure, it will be much easier when the state isn’t stealing all your extra money (or chasing you in hope of theft), but do what you can now and get used to the process.
50. Watch over your friends. Notice when they are having a bad day, show some kindness and concern. If they are overloaded, carry some of their burden. We all have bad times, and your bad day may come too. Help one another. Restore one another.

[Stary Hickory]

Secession or an unraveling of the government is the solution. It will be forced on us eventually at this pace. The whole Health Care debate has quickened a serious divide in the country that quite frankly is healthy.

Never in my life has the US government been so regarded as wreckless, out of control, and detrimental to American prosperity. With this Health Care debate the government is starting to look like an absurd joke. And this is starting to sink in even at the most basic levels throughout America. The oppressed have always been manageable because they saw hope or a necessity in government.....now this is disappearing.

The inevitability of big government growth is starting to be crowded out by the inevitable break up of statist ambitions. The information age has ushered in new means to get everyone the truth....the old propaganda channels are in full retreat. We simply need to press forward and destroy whatever propaganda we can. The truth is a fierce weapon and thanks to the ease of information access we have a new battlefield where we can deploy the truth anywhere at will.

I will not and will never obey any Health Care legislation, and I will agitate for separation from any government or entity who claims to have the right to dictate my health choices. I don't think I am alone

[MN Patriot]

Secession, sticking your head in the sand, being self sufficient, not voting, etc would be great ideas IF we were in a world where the people in power respected your freedom.

The political Establishment doesn't respect you. They know where you live, they are probably tracking your communications right here in this forum. They can find you, and if necessary will make examples out of you. The Establishment thinks they are entitled to enslave you, and if you don't cooperate they will MAKE you cooperate.

Here is the solution: SEEK POWER. That means getting involved in the political process. Politics sucks. But so does being a slave to the fascist power seekers. We need to become freedom power seekers. Being in power does not necessarily mean oppressing others; being in power does give you power to defend us from the fascists.

Right now the focus is on trying to reform the Republican Party. I am skeptical, but if it becomes obvious to enough people that the Republican Party cannot be reformed, we need a third party to put the Republicans out of business. Let the RINO's join their fellow socialists in the Democrat Party, or perhaps they could redeem themselves and stand for freedom.

In a few months each state will have their caucuses, or whatever their particular campaign process is. BE THERE! SPEAK UP! Join your fellow libertarians / freedom supporters to get advocates for freedom on the ballot.

[FrankRep]

Here is the solution: SEEK POWER. That means getting involved in the political process. Politics sucks.

You will be powerless in Politics without money.



We need money to have any type of power/voice in society or government.

1.) This means we need to start being Entrepreneurs. Create businesses and generate tons of money to fund our own Pro-Liberty projects.

2.) Start buying media sources. (Radio/Newspaper/Internet)

3.) Pro-Liberty scholarships. Train people to be teachers, political officials, business leaders.

[YumYum]

Right now the focus is on trying to reform the Republican Party.

That is a waste of time. Been there and done it. Ask Matt Collins.


I am skeptical, but if it becomes obvious to enough people that the Republican Party cannot be reformed, we need a third party to put the Republicans out of business.

I agree with you here. Ron Paul should start a third party that represents his basic ideas. He should keep it simple and stick to a couple fundamental principles; let's set aside all the other small stuff that makes people argue with each other. We are not going to have a perfect system and that is why the Libratarian Party, Constitutional Party and even the Green Party fail: they are too extreme in their ideologies for most Americans and they won't bend. "Liberty and Freedom" should be the new party platform: I'm free to do what I want, as long as I don't hurt my fellow man.

This message is what attracted me to Ron Paul when he was running for president. This message has not lost its appeal.

[FrankRep]

Ron Paul should start a third party that represents his basic ideas. He should keep it simple and stick to a couple fundamental principles; let's set aside all the other small stuff that makes people argue with each other. We are not going to have a perfect system and that is why the Libratarian Party, Constitutional Party and even the Green Party fail: they are too extreme in their ideologies...

Yes.

Continue to put pressure on the Constitution and Libertarian party to join forces and drop the differences.

[MN Patriot]

Yes.

Continue to put pressure on the Constitution and Libertarian party to join forces and drop the differences.

Yes, if these two parties could combine into one, then perhaps it could be considered a valid alternative.

What about this for an idea: Hundreds, no THOUSANDS of us join BOTH parties, and persuade them to combine.

[MN Patriot]

You will be powerless in Politics without money.



We need money to have any type of power/voice in society or government.

1.) This means we need to start being Entrepreneurs. Create businesses and generate tons of money to fund our own Pro-Liberty projects.

2.) Start buying media sources. (Radio/Newspaper/Internet)

3.) Pro-Liberty scholarships. Train people to be teachers, political officials, business leaders.

We have jobs, right? Then we have some money (after the government robs us).

Here is a media form the Establishment hasn't monopolized: billboards.

[FrankRep]

Yes, if these two parties could combine into one, then perhaps it could be considered a valid alternative.

What about this for an idea: Hundreds, no THOUSANDS of us join BOTH parties, and persuade them to combine.

Again, you will be powerless without money.
Corporations control the parties because they give the big campaign contributions. The party will choose the Corporations over you every time.

[FrankRep]

We have jobs, right? Then we have some money (after the government robs us).

Here is a media form the Establishment hasn't monopolized: billboards.

Start being Entrepreneurs. Be the millionaires not the minimum wagers.

[AuH20]

Again, you will be powerless without money.
Corporations control the parties because they give the big campaign contributions. The party will choose the Corporations over you every time.

Plus, they control the national debate committee. Imagine if there was an 'outsider' involved in the nationally televised presidential debates? All hell would break loose.

[MN Patriot]

Start being Entrepreneurs. Be the millionaires not the minimum wagers.

Financial entrepreneurship is being destroyed by the Establishment. They support corporatism, which means putting small business out of business.

Maybe we should be political entrepreneurs, much quicker than building a business empire. Recruit those who are already successful.

ACORN is run and operated by minimum wagers. Ruthless little bastards. Look what they accomplished.

[MN Patriot]

Again, you will be powerless without money.
Corporations control the parties because they give the big campaign contributions. The party will choose the Corporations over you every time.

I can pretty much guarantee there are NO corporations giving any money to either the Libertarian or Constitution parties. (Technically corporations can't give money to parties or candidates...)

If the parties were run by libertarians and constitutionalists, they will choose liberty.

Why are we here? To find a solution to our problem of losing our freedoms. Here is one solution I haven't seen anyone mention:

Hundreds, if not thousands of us, join both the Constitution and Libertarian Parties and persuade them to combine forces. Create one BIG third party to put pressure on the Republicans, if not completely eliminate them.

Ron Paul has a big donor list. Get the ball rolling, who ever you are. I'll take part.

[FrankRep]

The Other Alternative!


Texas Nationalist Movement (http://www.texasnationalist.com/): We want Ron Paul For President (of Texas) !!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=223574


Ron Paul on the Republic of Texas

Texas Congressman Ron Paul talks about his dream of seeing the Republic of Texas re-established.

YouTube - Ron Paul - Republic of Texas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2lmwg4eQ2s)

[SimpleName]

We need money to have any type of power/voice in society or government.

1.) This means we need to start being Entrepreneurs. Create businesses and generate tons of money to fund our own Pro-Liberty projects.

2.) Start buying media sources. (Radio/Newspaper/Internet)

3.) Pro-Liberty scholarships. Train people to be teachers, political officials, business leaders.

Actually, I'm hoping to work towards the first and second. Going to college right now with that in mind. We'll see how it all turns out.

[revolutionisnow]

Start being Entrepreneurs. Be the millionaires not the minimum wagers.

I think we should seriously look at how ACORN came to be what they are.


Also to the OP - this book
http://www.amazon.com/101-Things-Til-Revolution-Self-Liberation/dp/189362613X

[FrankRep]

I think we should seriously look at how ACORN came to be what they are.

ACORN is government funded.


- ACORN Funding in Peril (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/1895-acorn-funding-in-peril)
- ACORN Sues, IRS Drops Group (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/1953-acorn-sues-irs-drops-group)
- ACORN Sues Federal Government (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/2311-acorn-sues-federal-government)

[cbc58]

I think maybe we all can agree that the current system is well entrenched, exceptionally well funded and got to where it is because of decades of special interest manuvering and political cronyism. It's not going to change over night and the vast majority of people are unconciously numb and comfortable with the way things work.

If I go around my town promoting succession I'd be labeled a nutjob and dismissed by 98% of the poplulation. If I try to reform the Republican party or try to get some other party started, it would take 10's if not hundreds of millions of dollars and might not get anywhere.

I for one agree that education and media are probably the best and most cost effective weapons we have to expidite change. I strongly beleive that once people learn what is really happening they will wake up and demand change which will create a force that has to be reckoned with. You are not going to sway or convince the average voter to give up what they have or make their life uncomfortable -- and the best you can hope for is to educate them about the process and reality and get them involved so they get angry and concerned to the point where something gets done. it's called a grass roots revolution.

If you agree with the above, then the next question is: how do we raise money to create a media and education system that will touch all voters in a meaningful way? And what should it look like...?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I think maybe we all can agree that the current system is well entrenched, exceptionally well funded and got to where it is because of decades of special interest manuvering and political cronyism. It's not going to change over night and the vast majority of people are unconciously numb and comfortable with the way things work.

If I go around my town promoting succession I'd be labeled a nutjob and dismissed by 98% of the poplulation. If I try to reform the Republican party or try to get some other party started, it would take 10's if not hundreds of millions of dollars and might not get anywhere.

I for one agree that education and media are probably the best and most cost effective weapons we have to expidite change. I strongly beleive that once people learn what is really happening they will wake up and demand change which will create a force that has to be reckoned with. You are not going to sway or convince the average voter to give up what they have or make their life uncomfortable -- and the best you can hope for is to educate them about the process and reality and get them involved so they get angry and concerned to the point where something gets done. it's called a grass roots revolution.

If you agree with the above, then the next question is: how do we raise money to create a media and education system that will touch all voters in a meaningful way? And what should it look like...?

Do what the Founders did. Use all media outlets. Buy billboards promoting liberty, sound currency, non-interventionism, libertarian ideals, etc. Refrain from attacking a politician and focus on issues and principles. Produce pamphlets, fliers, and other works of literature to plaster in every city in the country. Create lit. that you can go from business to business to handing out so they can put it out in an accessible manner. Ask local business owners if they wouldn't mind putting up posters, and signs to promote liberty.

As for the online part. We do pretty well in that area, but we could do a lot better. Look at NH for inspiration. Produce more online webcasts, podcasts, radio programs, blogs, mass twitter, facebook, myspace, etc.

How do you think Common Sense got around to 1/5th the population in 6 months? If even half of us did this we could promote our message to everyone within a year. Inundate every area with our ideals and principles. The only reason people believed Ron Paul was on the fringe was because we were quiet. We were reserved. Our message wasn't out in the public forum. Look for donors, local businesses that would help, etc.

I also have to repeat DO NOT ATTACK ANY POLITICIAN. Our message should be solely principle driven.

I have a few ideas that I'm coming up with and working on for local organizations in my area, that I'll be happy to share when I'm done. One is similar to Common Sense I'm loosely titling for the moment - The Liberty Papers. I'm also trying to hook up with anyone who is quite good at Photoshop to produce some Hi-Qual Liberty posters/signs to mass produce.

If you have any free time whatsoever, if you really want liberty in our lifetime, then be an activist in your spare time. Get together with like-minded people and always be in town with the message. Signs, pamphlets, etc. Whether it be FIJA, Monetary, Foreign Policy, etc. Get out to your busiest street day after day after day. Wear the message 24/7. If you go out wear our message on your shirt. On your car via bumper stickers, etc.

The more we get the message out there, the more we will influence others. This is in conjunction with running for local and state office. Even if you know you won't win. Articulate the message and get it out there. Use political races for education!

Inundate, inundate, inundate. Who needs the tea-parties when you are out there every day. Fuck the co-opters.

[MN Patriot]

I think maybe we all can agree that the current system is well entrenched, exceptionally well funded and got to where it is because of decades of special interest manuvering and political cronyism. It's not going to change over night and the vast majority of people are unconciously numb and comfortable with the way things work.

If I go around my town promoting succession I'd be labeled a nutjob and dismissed by 98% of the poplulation. If I try to reform the Republican party or try to get some other party started, it would take 10's if not hundreds of millions of dollars and might not get anywhere.

I for one agree that education and media are probably the best and most cost effective weapons we have to expidite change. I strongly beleive that once people learn what is really happening they will wake up and demand change which will create a force that has to be reckoned with. You are not going to sway or convince the average voter to give up what they have or make their life uncomfortable -- and the best you can hope for is to educate them about the process and reality and get them involved so they get angry and concerned to the point where something gets done. it's called a grass roots revolution.

If you agree with the above, then the next question is: how do we raise money to create a media and education system that will touch all voters in a meaningful way? And what should it look like...?

WE are the ones who have woken up.

Can we afford to wait until people learn what is happening? It might take years before everyone understands, but right now many do! THEY ARE LEARNING! PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP!

We can demand change, they can demand change from now until infinity, but demanding change DOESN'T ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING!!!

NOW IS THE TIME TO SEEK POWER!

Running a third party that is a combination of the Libertarian and Constitution Parties would continue waking people up. The media loves politics, and all of these "Tea Party" candidates would certainly be difficult to ignore.

EDUCATE PEOPLE THROUGH OUR POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS! We could be doing that 6 months from now.

Saving our money, and trying to control the media like you suggest will take years or decades with no guarantee it will work at all.

I CAN guarantee you this: If the new Liberty Constitution Party were to run candidates for EVERY congressional race, the message of freedom would be heard all over the country. 6 MONTHS FROM NOW. This new third party needs to be big enough to not ignore.

One year from now the political landscape of the USA could look much different. If we do nothing, it will look just like it does now, but with a few more of the Republican phonies in office.

[Flash]

Running a third party that is a combination of the Libertarian and Constitution Parties would continue waking people up. The media loves politics, and all of these "Tea Party" candidates would certainly be difficult to ignore.

What if you called this new party, "The Tea Party"

[ScoutsHonor]

I think maybe we all can agree that the current system is well entrenched, exceptionally well funded and got to where it is because of decades of special interest manuvering and political cronyism. It's not going to change over night and the vast majority of people are unconciously numb and comfortable with the way things work.

If I go around my town promoting succession I'd be labeled a nutjob and dismissed by 98% of the poplulation. If I try to reform the Republican party or try to get some other party started, it would take 10's if not hundreds of millions of dollars and might not get anywhere.

I for one agree that education and media are probably the best and most cost effective weapons we have to expidite change. I strongly beleive that once people learn what is really happening they will wake up and demand change which will create a force that has to be reckoned with. You are not going to sway or convince the average voter to give up what they have or make their life uncomfortable -- and the best you can hope for is to educate them about the process and reality and get them involved so they get angry and concerned to the point where something gets done. it's called a grass roots revolution.

If you agree with the above, then the next question is: how do we raise money to create a media and education system that will touch all voters in a meaningful way? And what should it look like...?


What is THEIR most powerful weapon? The MEDIA. We need a means of communication which would replace their propaganda with the Truth!
IF we can get the Truth to the vast, deceived, uninformed, dangerously complacent populace, we do have a chance.

I think this should be Top Priority. I also believe we need to concentrate our strategy on ONE OBJECTIVE at a time, so that
we are all on the same page with resources and efforts, rather than *all over the board.*

[FrankRep]

What is THEIR most powerful weapon? The MEDIA. We need a means of communication which would replace their propaganda with the Truth!
IF we can get the Truth to the vast, deceived, uninformed, dangerously complacent populace, we do have a chance.

This is how the insiders hijacked the media in America.

We need to hijack it back.


The Council on Foreign Relations and their influence over the Media

YouTube - The CFR Controls The Media! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-FuaXvxWmQ)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

This is how the insiders hijacked the media in America.

We need to hijack it back.


The Council on Foreign Relations and their influence over the Media

YouTube - The CFR Controls The Media! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-FuaXvxWmQ)

We don't need the TV media.....or the dying newspapers. Read my post please. We are diverting our resources to a dead-end. It is folly.

[FrankRep]

We don't need the TV media.....or the dying newspapers. Read my post please. We are diverting our resources to a dead-end. It is folly.
I did read your post.

I re-emphasize my original post that we need money to have any type of power of influence. Media companies like CNN and Fox News can reach millions while we may reach a few hundred.

Just imagine if we owned Fox News and CNN. That will take money, tons of tons of it.

[ScoutsHonor]

This is how the insiders hijacked the media in America.

We need to hijack it back.


The Council on Foreign Relations and their influence over the Media

YouTube - The CFR Controls The Media! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-FuaXvxWmQ)

Thanks for the link, FrankRep. http://mail.google.com/mail/e/332
Rather than 'hijack it back', all we have to do is Add our own Voice. That Voice will carry a powerful wallop, I assure you. Think "This is John Galt
speaking." only on a less grand scale.

I hadn't seen AustrianEconDisciple's message before, but now that I do I think his way is exactly the right way for us to go.

[FrankRep]

I hadn't seen AustrianEconDisciple's message before, but now that I do I think his way is exactly the right way for us to go.

His idea was the foundation of the Ron Paul grassroots campaign. We created a "buzz," but people still thought he "didn't have a chance" because the media said so.

The founding fathers didn't have to deal with Television sets in everyone's home pumping them propaganda. We do.

[YumYum]

I did read your post.

I re-emphasize my original post that we need money to have any type of power of influence. Media companies like CNN and Fox News can reach millions while we may reach a few hundred.

Just imagine if we owned Fox News and CNN. That will take money, tons of tons of it.

Where are "we" going to get all this money? I would love to work with others to build up a huge fortune to create a strong third party, but others may not feel this way. They would not want to belong to anything that would appear to be a "collective". Another thing, outside of admiring Ron Paul, what is it we all have in common? We don't agree on anything, we hurl insults at each other, so how would we work together making millions? Stalin raised money for the Bolsheviks and Lenin by robbing banks and kidnapping. We don't need to resort to illegal activities, but I would like to know how we could raise millions of dollars before the 2012 elections in a legitimate business? Ron Paul, Rand Paul and Peter Schiff are all millioniares; maybe they would like to invest.

[FrankRep]

Where are "we" going to get all this money?


We need money to have any type of power/voice in society or government.

1.) This means we need to start being Entrepreneurs. Create businesses and generate tons of money to fund our own Pro-Liberty projects.

2.) Start buying media sources. (Radio/Newspaper/Internet)

3.) Pro-Liberty scholarships. Train people to be teachers, political officials, business leaders.

[ScoutsHonor]

His idea was the foundation of the Ron Paul grassroots campaign. We created a "buzz," but people still thought he "didn't have a chance" because the media said so.

pumpingThe founding fathers didn't have to deal with Television sets in everyone's home pumping them propaganda. We do.

We have to counter that with Propaganda of our own -- it will take ingenuity, and much more. We did it once before, though.. right? ;)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

His idea was the foundation of the Ron Paul grassroots campaign. We created a "buzz," but people still thought he "didn't have a chance" because the media said so.

The founding fathers didn't have to deal with Television sets in everyone's home pumping them propaganda. We do.

Why do you think our ideas are becoming more mainstream, more orthodox instead of heterodox? Your way will lead to failure, doom, and ultimately is a losing formula. FORGET THE MEDIA. Go straight to the people!

We are winning, because of our grassroots efforts. This will take time, for those who are not patient, determined, or of malignant respite then begone.

You are necessarily advocating a failed tactic. Just because Ron didn't win in 2008, doesn't mean it was a failure. Look around you today!

[FrankRep]

Your way will lead to failure, doom, and ultimately is a losing formula. FORGET THE MEDIA. Go straight to the people!

Please explain in detail why owning media sources will lead to failure and doom.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

We need money to have any type of power/voice in society or government.

1.) This means we need to start being Entrepreneurs. Create businesses and generate tons of money to fund our own Pro-Liberty projects.

2.) Start buying media sources. (Radio/Newspaper/Internet)

3.) Pro-Liberty scholarships. Train people to be teachers, political officials, business leaders.

#2 Wrong. We don't need to buy anything. We certainly are doing pretty well creating though. Check out what NH is doing. Follow their lead. Freetalklive is doing pretty well.

#3 That is up to the individual to decide what he or she wants to pursue in their life. This is all ready happening. I was talking to Thomas Woods about undergrad and grad studies a month ago, and reading posts by Joe Salerno and other professors noting a huge uptick in those attending and interested in Austrian Economics in the Universities. A doubling in many. (This goes in with business leaders also - Austrian flavor)

As for politicians, no, we don't need any of those. We certainly do need principled Statesman though. We need to stop hiding behind the fear of "losing". We need to remain principled and consistent offering the people another option. Yes, we may lose in the short-term, but in the long-term it is the means of victory, of a principled victory.

We don't need money. We just need the efforts of individual entrepreneurs. Look at what Aravoth did with YT. That certainly doesn't take that much money. Look at freetalklive. Look at the Free State Project.

You have this insatiable insistence to try and "take over" State-run media. The solution is to ignore and bypass it. It is antiquated. We must take our message from our minds to the hearts of the people. Look at NH Liberty Forum, Freedom Phoenix, etc. We should be networking to have something like that in every state.

What we need is YOU the individual to get up off our laurels and to get out there and do what is needed. We need the American spirit for liberty, not money.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Please explain in detail why owning media sources will lead to failure and doom.

We will never own media sources like CNN, FOX, etc. The whole supposition of idea is abject failure. It is impossible.

[RevolutionSD]

A voluntary society with NO coercion is the only answer. It may sound more difficult than simply supporting liberty-minded candidates, but until people understand what true freedom (lack of leaders) is, government will keep growing, and when it collapses, people will demand that it comes back more powerful than ever.

Freedom is an inside job.

[cbc58]

Personally I think you give far too much credit to the RP movement for making people aware of what is going on. What made them aware was a direct impact on their pocketbook and the collapse of the monetary system as we know it.

Don't get me wrong, I support RP and the movement, but it's focus is not shared by 98% of the public. Yes change will come over time - but you can't force people into a way of life or doing something you want them to do just because you want them to do it. Step outside the RP movement and you will see that not much has changed and the big parties are in control.

Frank Rep - you keep posting the same thing over and over again... and I agree with you... but that's the 10% inspiration part of things --- the big question is how do you get the other 90% and make something happen. Just saying "do this" doesn't make it happen.

Just by the responses here it's clear that there are so many differening viewpoints that concensus is difficult just discussing an idea - and that's the way it's been with the RP movement all along. What I was hoping to do is come up with some kind of concrete way to work torwards change and I think we hit on something with the education and media segments.

It will take money.... lot's of money to do anything that will have a impact. I posted 2 ideas an no one has responded to them and they are more along the lines of actionable suggestions rather than vague opinions.

If you want to take build a media system and for-profit business that can compete with the status quo - take a look at these two suggesitons and please give feedback... or post some actionable concepts. I know one thing for sure... if every taxpayer got a bill in their mailbox for the bailouts, war or entitlement programs and was asked to pay every 30 days for them.... they'd sit up and take notice. While that may not be feasible, something that brings the problems home to taxpayers via media or education will get the attention of everyone and not just RP's who know what's going on.

[YumYum]

#2 Wrong. We don't need to buy anything. We certainly are doing pretty well creating though. Check out what NH is doing. Follow their lead. Freetalklive is doing pretty well.

#3 That is up to the individual to decide what he or she wants to pursue in their life. This is all ready happening. I was talking to Thomas Woods about undergrad and grad studies a month ago, and reading posts by Joe Salerno and other professors noting a huge uptick in those attending and interested in Austrian Economics in the Universities. A doubling in many. (This goes in with business leaders also - Austrian flavor)

As for politicians, no, we don't need any of those. We certainly do need principled Statesman though. We need to stop hiding behind the fear of "losing". We need to remain principled and consistent offering the people another option. Yes, we may lose in the short-term, but in the long-term it is the means of victory, of a principled victory.

We don't need money. We just need the efforts of individual entrepreneurs. Look at what Aravoth did with YT. That certainly doesn't take that much money. Look at freetalklive. Look at the Free State Project.

You have this insatiable insistence to try and "take over" State-run media. The solution is to ignore and bypass it. It is antiquated. We must take our message from our minds to the hearts of the people. Look at NH Liberty Forum, Freedom Phoenix, etc. We should be networking to have something like that in every state.

What we need is YOU the individual to get up off our laurels and to get out there and do what is needed. We need the American spirit for liberty, not money.

I do wear my Ron Paul t-shirts and I talk about Ron Paul every chance I get. People get real quiet or change the subject. Ron Paul supporters have been labeled "kooks", and Ron Paul and his supporters have been demonized by people like Hannity and Morris. So, trying to educate the masses would take too long. This whole thing will collapse before we can educate a Village of Idiots. What we should be doing is what Stalin did: prepare for the collapse. When everything collapses we will be ready. We will be way ahead of the game over everybody else.

[CCTelander]

50 things to do now from the free and unashamed"

http://fr33agents.ning.com/profiles/blogs/fifty-things-to-do-now

Easier to read version at lew http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl/50-things-to-do-now.html

1.

Become a part-time entrepreneur, garage-market-dealer, urban farmer, welder, whatever. Just be productive under your own command. It doesn’t matter what it is; just be directly productive, and directly deal with suppliers and clients. You’ll find it awesomely liberating and it will be highly useful for the free underground market.
2.

Switch off the TV. Read books!
3.

Socialize with people that share your ethics and that are productive and respectful. Eat together, discuss, challenge each other, help each other, have a good time.
4.

Get a safe or safe deposit box. Start moving all the cash you can get in there, convert at least 30% of your cash to silver and/or gold coins.
5.

Invest in trust. Do minor deals for people on a trust basis. Taking others at their word, and let yourself be challenged by yours.
6.

Start looking for matches. When you talk with people, memorize what they do, and if an opportunity comes up, connect them with someone else for a minor finders fee (a burger, a few beers, whatever).
7. Join your local LIMA house. (We’ll explain this in a future post.)

8.

Travel, but don’t go sight-seeing – spend your time getting to know the people there. Think about business opportunities with them.
9.

Start using aliases and pseudonyms. Get comfortable using them in real-life situations.
10.

Learn to use cryptography.
11.

Learn ethics and law (not the government law…).
12.

Study logic, especially the fallacies.
13.

Put more cash aside. Use your part-time job as the source of saved cash.
14.

Start to invest cash with people you know, in off the books projects. Start making micro-loans to people or buy shares in their operations.
15.

Learn basic double-entry book-keeping. Don’t waste effort on the account-numbers they teach you – understand the concept and use it.
16. Learn to write in code. We all have to use recordings, bookkeeping, contact books, transaction notes etc. These should be hard to decipher for someone taking a quick glimpse, and even hard for someone taking time to analyze them. Use tricks like date-shifting, shorthand, making up your own terms, etc. Or, if you want to spend a little more effort, learn to use memorized ciphers, such as memorizing some longer text, then apply it as a simple shifting-key to what you write, with the page number or a marker as a keypart.

17.

Tell other producers, entrepreneurs, traders etc that you appreciate what they do.
18.

Buy primarily from others like you, stay away from the on-the-books market as much as you can.
19.

When in conflict, ask someone to mediate. Solve conflicts yourself wherever you can. Use a mutually respected and trusted third party when necessary. Stay away from state “justice” whenever you can.
20.

Start respecting secrets. Secrets are good most of the time; transparency is bad most of the time. Detox yourself from the “everything should be in the open” propaganda.
21.

Slowly make your part-time, off-the-books business, your main line of income. Things like underground dental hygiene are very cool.
22.

Learn that “off-the-books” means that you really have to excel in what you do. You have to provide quality.
23.

Don’t invest in single deals; invest in relationships with the market.
24.

Get over it: Voting doesn’t help at all.
25.

Work with friends to create buying associations and selling associations. This will give you and others lots of money to save and lots of money to hide.
26.

Harbor a fugitive. (Good ones, obviously.)
27.

Help someone cross a border without documents.
28.

Offer small merchants silver or gold rather than fiat currency.
29.

Sell your products in silver or gold.
30.

Accept and use digital gold, such as Pecunix or C-gold.
31.

Start a community currency in your town.
32.

Use digital cash, such as eCache.
33.

Use Loom, Truebanc.
34.

Get serious about protecting your Internet traffic.
35.

Get comfortable working your will in the world.
36.

Learn how to work your will beneficially. This is not about being “right,” it is about causing benefit.
37.

Fix your mistakes (you will make them). Learn not to repeat them.
38.

Learn how to communicate effectively. Again, this is not about proving that you are right – this is about getting true ideas into other minds effectively.
39.

Stop obeying the state in some new way. Tell your friends about your success doing so.
40.

Get comfortable with the term “Economic Civil Disobedience.”
41. Spread the idea that the state is not magic – it is nothing more than a collection of your neighbors – no more ethical and noble than the lamer next door.

42.

Learn how to find the false assumptions in arguments. Most public lies sound okay if you don’t find their unspoken assumptions. If they pass too quickly, find the written version and search for the lie it contains.
43.

Learn how to disagree with kindness.
44.

Accept the fact that most people are confused and are just barely hanging on to their last shreds of self-esteem. Understand that state intellectuals like this condition, as it makes people easier to keep in line – a little shame goes a long way.
45.

Don’t waste your energy on the political crisis de jour. Busy your mind with more substantial things. Daily political dramas are a time-sink, and the statists like it. Stop following their script.
46.

Use jurisdictional arbitrage to deprive the state of your money. Work with friends if the setup costs are too large for you.
47.

Learn to defend yourself, your family, your neighbors and your town. No state means no military. Until you take this upon yourself, your plans will always have a gaping hole in their middle. There is no free lunch here either. Get weapons and be mentally prepared to use them. Decide in advance how and when you would use them – do not leave it to the emotion of the moment – that will make a shipwreck of the whole venture. Learn how to use them safely.
48.

Do something nice for your neighbor. The people who live near you are a far more important part of your environment than any other.
49.

Help people who suffer undeservedly. No state means you are responsible for charity. Sure, it will be much easier when the state isn’t stealing all your extra money (or chasing you in hope of theft), but do what you can now and get used to the process.
50. Watch over your friends. Notice when they are having a bad day, show some kindness and concern. If they are overloaded, carry some of their burden. We all have bad times, and your bad day may come too. Help one another. Restore one another.

So far, this is the most sensible, intelligent post in this thread. Major props risk_reward!

[CCTelander]

What is THEIR most powerful weapon? The MEDIA. We need a means of communication which would replace their propaganda with the Truth!
IF we can get the Truth to the vast, deceived, uninformed, dangerously complacent populace, we do have a chance.

I think this should be Top Priority. I also believe we need to concentrate our strategy on ONE OBJECTIVE at a time, so that
we are all on the same page with resources and efforts, rather than *all over the board.*


I thought this excerpt from one of L. Neil Smith's essays was particularly appropriate here:


There is a way to knock another leg from under the three-legged stool of government, public schools, and media, a workable substitute for conventional politics that demands no compromise on the part of those who wish to be free. What's more, if the enemies of liberty possess no integrity, it can even make that fact an asset, instead of the frustrating liability it's always seemed to be.

From now on, whenever you hear reporters lying on radio or television, or read lies they've written in newspapers or magazines—about the internet, about your right to own and carry weapons, about Waco, about anything—wait for the next commercial, or take note of the nearest quarter- or half-page advertisement, the kind of ads that constitute a publication's "bread and butter".

Now ordinarily, if you did anything about any of the million lies a day the media spew at you and your children, it would simply be to complain about it to a friend in person or on the internet, or write a letter to the editor. A letter you know will be published only if it makes your side look like a gaggle of lunatics. A letter which, if it fails to serve their purposes, the editorial crew will snigger at obscenely, crumple into a sweaty little ball, and toss into the circular file—"Missed, dammit! How about three out of five?"

Instead of going through that useless empty ritual one more time, write your letter to that advertiser, telling him about what you've just read in the publication, or heard on the station, whose bills he pays with his advertising fees. Tell him the intellectual thugs whose wages he pays are lying about all the vital issues of the day. (Each of us has his own pet peeve, and you can stick to that if you prefer.) They're trying to help vile pressure groups and politicians deprive you of your rights. They're trying to get you injured or killed—and even worse, to get your children injured or killed—on his nickel!

Pretend you're a liberal, or that he is. Don't let it sound intellectual. Keep it easily understandable, expressed in short words and shorter sentences. Stick to one concept per letter. Make your pen or keyboard drip with emotion. Think with your tear ducts (and parts south). Tell him he's helping evil be perpetrated. He pays for it, therefore it's his fault. If he's the average guy who manages a furniture store, he won't know what to do with a letter like this, blaming him for all the world's problems. If he gets a dozen, and they all seem independent and spontaneous, he may quit selling furniture and join a monastery!

So now it's time to reverse yourself (remember, you're a liberal, or he is) and let him off the hook. Tell him that you don't necessarily hold him responsible. After all, we're men of the world. We know that newspaper and TV people are the "something worse" that scum keeps from floating to the top.

But don't forget to ask him this question: if the newspaper or TV station lies about something as simple and basic, for example, as the Bill of Rights, then why should anybody believe anything they have say about his goods or services? Don't threaten or bluster—nobody actually gives a damn in any case, and your guilt-trip was just a buildup to the punchline—simply demand an answer to your question. If they'll lie about A and B then why not C and D?

Now comes the most important part: be sure and send a copy of your letter to the newspaper or television station. But don't send it to the editorial department. Send it to the advertising manager. He'll pay close attention to it. He never gets any letters, except from the advertisers themselves, bitching that last Tuesday's grocery store double-trucker employed the wrong typeface.

Unlike the hairsprayheads and J-school graduates upstairs who only think they run the joint, he doesn't care that you can be credibly blown off as a "right-wing kook". He won't argue with you about what the Second Amendment "really" provides. And he won't sniff haughtily that your letter is eleven words over some 400-word limit. The only thing he cares about is advertising revenue.

If he thinks editorial's policy is fiscally harmful, he'll go straight to the top management and—provided you're consistent and persistent enough—the First Amendment be damned, they'll come down on editorial like a ton of bricks.

Before I wrote this column, I checked with Vin Suprynowicz, the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review Journal, celebrated syndicated columnist, and editor-in-chief of The Libertarian Enterprise. Vin's worked all his adult life at papers of varying size across the country. I asked him if the idea was sound and how many letters might be required to have noticable effect.

Vin astonished me by replying that six or seven letters a week for three to five months would probably do the trick. I'd thought it would take many times that number and at least twice that long. If he's only half right, then a mere 300 letters could, in only half a year, change the editorial policy of the most left-wing metropolitan birdcage liners. As if by a miracle (the usual kind, requiring lots of elbow-grease and skull-sweat on our part) the "little men" by whom we find ourselves governed will have lost one more pillar of support.

Naturally, there's no reason you can't wage this kind of campaign all by yourself. On the other hand, if you and your friends get together and hold a "Libertyware Party" on a regular basis—say, monthly—you can share any research you've done (you may find that addresses are remarkably hard to root out for certain national advertisers who want your money but don't want any other kind of contact with their customers) and plan ways to distribute your letters throughout the month in order to make them appear as independent and spontaneous as you want them to. Be sure you all use different kinds of paper or stationery, different ink colors, and different handwriting, typewriters, or printer typefaces. It sure beats standing in the rain collecting petition signatures.

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle435-20070916-02.html

And here's another essay by smith expanding a little on the idea:

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle435-20070916-02.html

There's no need to buy or own various media outlets. We have the power to "encourage" those that already exist to start reporting something that at least resembles the "truth" right now.

If small groups around the country would undertake adding this idea to their activist activities I think that within a surprisingly short period of time, say within a year or two, a great deal could be accomplished.

I think it would be best to focus on LOCAL broadcast and print media outlets, and LOCAL advertisers, since the influence we have at the local level is significantly greater than at the national level.

Imagine what things might be like if even your local media outlets were actually printing and broadcasting something that at least resembled the truth most of the time.

Most of this I pulled from another thread that I had posted. That thread has a few other good ideas in it and can be found here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=214768

[nayjevin]

All politics are local. Stay within your scope of influence, expand your scope of influence.

Become a journalist - build yourself a website.

Spend wisely - use your dollars to vote for what you believe in.

Become happier and wiser - let it spill over to others you encounter.

Focus on that which you have control. The outcome of an election is rarely one of those things.

Encourage people to drop television. Tell them about online alternatives. Teach people to use RSS.

Seek to improve and expand your scope of influence. Writing a letter to the editor? Submit it to multiple newspapers at once. Post it on a forum. Find a program that automates this. Share the program with a friend. Build a website where you teach people to use this program. Always think the next step up in terms of scope and efficiency.

Be smart, but not scared. Have fun, don't forget friends and family!

Push to do one thing each day that's outside your comfort zone (but that you know makes a positive difference). Talk to a stranger. Leave a DVD on a doorstep. Send out an email. Don't let skills stagnate, get out of the bubble abit.

Find what you do best, find a way to profit from it, and translate it to the ideals of liberty.

merry christmas!

[cbc58]

well, that's a good idea but seeing as it was written in 97' and we just went through a major political cycle... it is clear people aren't doing it. i actually think people are even too lazy to do even that. now we could work creating a system that lets people contact advertisers... that's something.

and again.... the problem is... only about 2% of the poplulation thinks the way RP's do.

we have to get to more people and get them involved AND get them to act.

[benhaskins]

Balanced budget amendment at the federal level. Rand Paul seems be big on that and term limits. Imo it would accomplish alot of things. People would feel the pain of government expansion by higher taxation. Racking up massive debts year in and year out has put the people, as well as the politicians, of this country in an illusionary state. So much so, that it seems rational to increase the government's role in health care. However, when you step back you can see that health care entitlement programs are massively under-funded without cuts and/or tax increases in the future and are a big threat to bankrupting this country.

[libertygrl]

ACORN is government funded.


- ACORN Funding in Peril (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/1895-acorn-funding-in-peril)
- ACORN Sues, IRS Drops Group (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/1953-acorn-sues-irs-drops-group)
- ACORN Sues Federal Government (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/2311-acorn-sues-federal-government)


Maybe we should look overseas at something like the Polish Solidarity Movement? They were all poor and working class people without much money. However, I think the difference between them and America is that the Poles know what it's like to suffer and sacrifice for a cause. We on the other hand, are spoiled and lazy. Other than maybe our grandparents or great grandparents who lived through the Great Depression, we really don't know what sacrifice is like. We've become an instant gratification society. We want it all and we want it NOW! Although, I do fear those difficult times may be visiting us in the very near future and we will soon find out what each of us are truly made of.

SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT:
The 1970s were extremely challenging and painful for Lech Walesa and his family. He lived under constant surveillance of the State Security Service. His home and his workplace were tapped, and Lech Walesa was incessantly spied upon and repressed.

Until the beginning of the August 1980 strike he had been jobless. He was one of the main instigators of the August protest, and when the Shipyard workers began to flock in front of the Management building on the Shipyard premises, Walesa made his famous "jump over the fence" and found himself in the heart of the events. Everything that happened in August 1980 affected the course of Polish history, but also the history of Europe and the world. The personal stand of Lech Walesa, his tenacious negotiations, and struggling for the strikers' demands, support and trust that he enjoyed on the part of the strike participators throughout Poland, contributed to creating the sense of solidarity and community among Poles, which was institutionally expressed with the establishment of the Free Independent Trade Union Solidarity, and the first bloodless victory in Polish history. That was the time when all the world followed the events in Poland, Gdansk and the moves of Lech Walesa, who would represent the interests of his countrymen with dignity, winning admiration and respect of the free world.

The totalitarian regime reacted to all those developments by introducing martial law on December 13, 1981. Lech Walesa was among the first individuals to be interned. He was at first kept in Chylice, later in Otwock, to finally end up in Arłamów, where he was interned until November 1982. A year later, he resumed work at the Gdansk Shipyard as an electrician, where he was officially employed until 1990.

All the way through the dark time of martial law and difficult period after the ban of Solidarity, when the Union was routed and few people retained any hope for victory, Lech Walesa was the one who would not surrender. He remained the living symbol, spokesman, and propagator of the idea of solidarity. Despite fabricated rumours slandering his person, despite continuous harassment by the repression services of Communist Poland, he did not give in. His struggle was appreciated both within Poland and outside the country, with Nobel Peace Prize being awarded to him in 1983. Fearing that he might not be allowed to freely return to Poland, Lech Walesa decided against personally receiving the honour. His wife Danuta and son Bogdan acted on his behalf receiving the Prize in Oslo.

By the end of the 1980s, Lech Walesa sat down to negotiate with the Communist authorities at the Round Table. The peaceful transformation, called a bloodless revolution, was an exceptional phenomenon in the world and an example for others how to reach an agreement and carry out political change. Determination and courage of Lech Walesa, who headed the delegation of the democratic opposition at the Round Table, led to a compromise with the already weak, but still dangerous Communist regime, and this culminated in the election of 4th June 1989 and the establishment of the first non-Communist government on the Eastern side of the Iron Curtain.

On 15th November 1989 Lech Walesa became the third foreigner in history to address the joint sessions of the US Congress, starting his speech with the famous words: "We, the People!".

The subsequent years of Lech Walesa's activity were committed to the struggle towards further democratization of Poland and transformation towards market economy .

http://www.ilw.org.pl/en/117,50

[libertygrl]

What if you called this new party, "The Tea Party"

Personally, I think this has been co-opted by Fox News and the neo-cons. We need a new name.

[MN Patriot]

What if you called this new party, "The Tea Party"


Personally, I think this has been co-opted by Fox News and the neo-cons. We need a new name.

If the Constitution and Libertarian Party were to combine, my suggestion would be the Liberty Constitution Party. Pretty much self explanatory.

[someguyinpa]

Most liberty minded people don't know the definition of 'Sovereign' therefore we don't act like true sovereigns. We are constantly engaged in a range of defensive postures over things like the fed, foreign policy, real id, mandatory vaccinations, etc. When we the people go on the offensive and draft 'job description' contracts for all local, state, and federal public servant candidates to follow to the letter, we will be acting like the master or sovereign and call all of the shots; the candidates who sign will know their specific duties once elected with enumerated immediate consequences if violations occur. This is a totally transparent approach that takes the guess work out of the equation and neutralizes special interests power.

[ScoutsHonor]

I thought this excerpt from one of L. Neil Smith's essays was particularly appropriate here:



[/URL]http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle435-20070916-02.html (http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle435-20070916-02.html)

And here's another essay by smith expanding a little on the idea:

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle435-20070916-02.html (http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle435-20070916-02.html)

There's no need to buy or own various media outlets. We have the power to "encourage" those that already exist to start reporting something that at least resembles the "truth" right now.

If small groups around the country would undertake adding this idea to their activist activities I think that within a surprisingly short period of time, say within a year or two, a great deal could be accomplished.

I think it would be best to focus on LOCAL broadcast and print media outlets, and LOCAL advertisers, since the influence we have at the local level is significantly greater than at the national level.

Imagine what things might be like if even your local media outlets were actually printing and broadcasting something that at least resembled the truth most of the time.

Most of this I pulled from another thread that I had posted. That thread has a few other good ideas in it and can be found here:

[url]http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=214768 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=214768)

These are just the kind of things we need to do, IMO--if we could only all get on the same page. :( I for one am very much in favor of AustrianEconDisciple's approach, which reaches directly to the people, which I think is the only way we will really accomplish anything.

Thanks for these very promising ideas.

[CCTelander]

These are just the kind of things we need to do, IMO--if we could only all get on the same page. :(


Well, you can see how little attention it gets. :( I've posted some of this several times over the last couple of years, always the same response.

I've been trying to get some of these ideas off the ground here locally for some time now too. Pretty much the same. people have difficulty seeing the merit, I guess.



I for one am very much in favor of AustrianEconDisciple's approach, which reaches directly to the people, which I think is the only way we will really accomplish anything.


AED has some excellent points too. I'm 100% in favor of agorism as part of an overall strategy. I do think it's a mistake to just completely ignore the MSM though. Not because I think correcting that problem would be the end all and be all, but because I do think that having the media reporting something that's at least a little like the truth would help to strongly reinforce other educational efforts. To my mind that would be an invaluable accomplishment.

AED is dead right in saying that "going directly to the people" is the most effective way to educate and persuade. Media soundbites and political ads are of almost no utility as far as actual education goes. They can be good for sparking curiosity and reinforcing ideas, but as an actual educational effort they're largely worthless.

FrakRep has some good points too. It's absolutely right to say that we need to be focussing on entrepreneurial efforts, just not so we can start buying up media outlets. IMO that would be a waste of resources since those that already exist can be reigned in as Smith suggests.

The real benefit of entrepreneurial efforts like that is to establish as much independence as possible. I think EVERY liberty advocate should be focusing some of their effort into establishing small, home-based businesses of some kind. The more independent of "the system" the better.

But I also think we need to take it a lot farther than that. As I see it, one of the biggest, most fundamental problems we face is that most people believe that most "services" provided by government are absolutely necessary. In other words, most people feel like they're dependent upon government in many critical areas.

What we need to be doing is not only establish ourselves as independent entrepreneurs, but to be teaching others, ESPECIALLY people NOT involved in the liberty movement, to do the same.

We need to be helping our friends and neighbors, and anyone else that we can get ahold of to be more independent in general. We need to be undermining their dependence upon government in every conceivable way.

They feel they "need" government to protect them from crime? Teach them self-defense and how to use firearms.

They "need" govt to "manage" the economy? Teach them to start small, home-based businesses and let them see for themselves how little they "need" govt in that area.

Teach them gardening, basic auto repair, whatever it takes to help them become more independent. As they realize what they themselves are actually capable of, their ideas as to what they need govt for may actually change almost automatically. At the very least thney'll be a LOT easier to persuade and educate once they realize that they're actually capable of meeting a lot of their needs all on their own.

This is kind of disjointed since I'm in a hurry, but I hope it at least starts to get the idea across.

Another thing the liberty movement needs to do, IMO, is to totally rethink how we go about attempting to teach and persuade people, but I'll leave that for a possible future post.



Thanks for these very promising ideas.


Thanks!

[cbc58]

To followup on this - we've reached the point where people continue to say something has to be done but nothing is ever done because of lack of funding or concensus.

I agree that going directly to the people is key. My take is that all we have to do is present the facts and let people decide for themselves what actions to take and who to align with. The truth will set you free.

There are numerous websites that are fairly broad but no one is really focused locally. It's a huge job that has to be tackled by people on the ground in each location. I think that a good and well-constructed website / service could be developed that could get information to the people and act as a catalyst to bring people together across all political parties, age groups and economic classes. Something that makes it easy and is proactive in connecting with voters and citizens on a local level and that actually touches people in their everyday lives.

What we need to do is put this together and just get it going and it will take on a life of it's own. It can be setup to be self-supporting and even profitable so that it requires no funding after the initial layout to get it developed. The question then becomes: how do we get it developed?

That's literally the $64,000 question.

[revolutionisnow]

To followup on this - we've reached the point where people continue to say something has to be done but nothing is ever done because of lack of funding or concensus.

I agree that going directly to the people is key. My take is that all we have to do is present the facts and let people decide for themselves what actions to take and who to align with. The truth will set you free.

There are numerous websites that are fairly broad but no one is really focused locally. It's a huge job that has to be tackled by people on the ground in each location. I think that a good and well-constructed website / service could be developed that could get information to the people and act as a catalyst to bring people together across all political parties, age groups and economic classes. Something that makes it easy and is proactive in connecting with voters and citizens on a local level and that actually touches people in their everyday lives.

What we need to do is put this together and just get it going and it will take on a life of it's own. It can be setup to be self-supporting and even profitable so that it requires no funding after the initial layout to get it developed. The question then becomes: how do we get it developed?

That's literally the $64,000 question.

What about starting a Liberty Credit Union? Or maybe door to door rebranded candy or cookie sales, like they do in schools or scouts? On the package you could print a message or handout some info. Or possibly do a walk or run to raise money. This is the same thing I was getting at with investigating how Acorn made their money, sure they are government funded, but they had to get to that point somehow. We don't need to reinvent the wheel, just figure out how and what other people have done and replicate it.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cu/20000301a.asp

[cbc58]

Regarding a credit union... that will take some work and money... but it's an idea that could be implemented down the road. Awhile back I had proposed the idea of creating a liberty co-op -- but no one seemed to want to do anything.

This is the essential problem... ideas that don't go anywhere. Not all ideas are good and workable... but in here somewhere are the seeds to get something started.

The idea of selling cookies could be something and there are lots and lots of fundraising ideas we could use. I'd like to know if there are any major companies or well-heeled individuals that could write a check for say 25k to get this started... with the understanding that they would get a substantial amount of exposure if they wanted. Somewhere there is a company owner or individual who has money sitting idle that they would want directed to helping get more people involved in the cause.

I have mentioned this before... but people donating $$ to political campaigns and not knowing where it's going or what it's spent on seems a waste to me... especially since it's usually used in a one-shot ad deal that often times won't do a damn thing. Maybe we can work on crafting a message to voters to get them to think about splitting a donation or making a small donation to this type of thing... as long as everything is spelled out and they understand what we are trying to do. Maybe a money-bomb. Once it is set up and gets rolling it will get natrual press and take on a life of it's own. Then there is the issue of defining exactly what it is we are going to do and who is going to do it. And the structure: non-profit, PAC, for-profit, what?

So to recap so far as I understand it:

1.) Educating people on the way the system works, issues that effect them and proposed legislation can get them more involved in the political process.
2.) Education can extend into information and services that can help people become more self-sufficient, smarter about money, and rely less on government.
3.) To deliver this we need a system created that connects with people at the hyperlocal level and reaches them in a proactive way
4.) Likely the best way to start this is via a website or internet model that functions smoothly and that can be deployed rapidly. Participation can evolve and move off-line in a variety of ways to connect members of the community in more meaningful ways.
5.) This service should target all voters and be non-partisan and non-denominational.
6.) It should be constructed to be self-supporting and not require ongoing donations or funding.
7.) We need funding to get this started - and I would guess to do it right it's going to take about 50k -100k minimum. How do we get that?

How does that sound?

[cbc58]

Sometimes i feel like a mouse trying to push a bowling ball up Mount Everest.

One mouse can't do it. 10,000 can get it moving. 1,000,000 can probalby get it to the top.

[cbc58]

Sometimes i feel like a mouse trying to push a bowling ball up Mount Everest.

One mouse can't do it. 10,000 can get it moving. 1,000,000 can probalby get it to the top.

[cbc58]

My new years resolution for 2010 is to try and get a localized communication and education system developed... somehow.

As always happens with these threads people come on and make suggestions but it never gets anywhere.

Imagine what it would be like if there was a way to get more people involved and focus on issues that effect them. You can't have a tree without roots and we need to focus on the roots and the way a tree gets it's nourishment. The RP movement is but one tree in a forest and we need to break out into the entire forest.

If anyone wants to help and can provide programming expertise (php/asp), volunteer time to research and promote it locally, or money/fundraising help to this project please send me a PM. I have a self-sustainable plan which I can share with those interested. Tks.

[CCTelander]

Sometimes i feel like a mouse trying to push a bowling ball up Mount Everest.

One mouse can't do it. 10,000 can get it moving. 1,000,000 can probalby get it to the top.

I hear ya. When I have a little more time, I'll post some more thoughts. Right now I'm swamped.

[cbc58]

I am trying to think of ways to raise funds and wonder if people would buy a T-shirt that somehow played off the "mouse" idea that I mentioned previously in this thread.

Sometimes i feel like a mouse trying to push a bowling ball up Mount Everest.
One mouse can't do it. 10,000 can get it moving. 1,000,000 can probalby get it to the top.

Not necessarily mice pushing a bowling ball up Mt. Everest... but using the metaphor of a small creature, a mouse, that by itself can't do much... but by joining forces it can move anything. Maybe start something like The "One Million Mice" movement. People buy a t-shirt as part of the movement. Create a swarm that gets stuff done. Someone can come up with some liberty-slanted graphic that shows a group of mice taking on Washington or moving something immovable.

The irony would be that such a small creature could take on a huge government and have an impact. I can see it now... the fed brought down by mice.

Just throwing this idea out there... good or bad... what do you think?

[CCTelander]

1.) Educating people on the way the system works, issues that effect them and proposed legislation can get them more involved in the political process.


A couple of points regarding "education."

Firstly, the main focus of the liberty movement has been purported to be "education" for the entire 35+ years that I've been actively involved, and even for decades before.

The John Birch Society, for example, started in the late 1950s with the stated purpose of becoming an "educational army." The Libertarin Party's initial purpose was NOT to get libertarians elected to public office, but to serve as a vehicle to "educate" the people.

It hasn't worked out very well. The "people," for the most part, remain ignorant.

Why?

IMO it's because the liberty movement has utterly failed to apply certain basic principles related to problem solving and achieving specific goals.

The very first step is to clearly identify and define the problem(s) and its/their cause(s). When it comes to pointing out problems there's no group of people that are better at it than liberty advocates. They can cite problems all day long.

However, we're not always so good at identifying the root causes, and we tend not to get very far past the "identifying problems" phase.

It's usually recommended that, in attempting to solve any problem, you spend NO MORE than 20% of your time and effort on identifying the problem, with the rest being aimed at solutions. The liberty movement spends outrageous amounts of time and effort identifying, and almost none on brainstorming possible solutions.

Almost everyone who has ever succeeded to any significant degree at anything will recommend that from this point you begin to apply what's become commonly known as "The Ultimate Success Formula." It has 4 basic steps.

1) Know your outcome.
You absolutely NEED to have a specific, measurable goal in mind. It also HAS to seem achievable to you.

We have a goal, "Liberty." But it's way too big, too ambiguous. It's hard to get your mind around. What does "liberty" mean and how do we get there from here?

When a goal is huge, like this one is, the first thing you need to do is to "chunk" it down into more managable steps. Work your way back from the end goal and figure out what needs to happen at each step along the way to get to it.

This process produces a working plan. A plan, at its most basic, is just a series of incremental smaller goals that take you to your main objective. Every goal along the way has to be specific and measurable, you can't achieve something if you don't know what it is you're trying to achieve, specifically, and you'll never even know if and when you succeed if you can't measure your progress in some way.

Has the liberty movement done any of this? Not in any significant way that I can see. The closest thing to a plan the movement has ever had in my experience is "Let's get a lot of good people elected and they'll fix everything for us." More on this later.

Everyone agrees that "education" is one of the most important things we need to be doing. But where's the detailed, specific plan for how it's to be accomplished? How will we know when it is?

Once you've got a detailed, specific plan, it's time to move on to the next step.

2) Take action.
This one is easy. Everybody takes some action. The problem is that without the detailed, specific plan, you don't really know what action to take. It results in a lot of wasted effort, wasted resources, and, ultimately, a lot of discouragement.

Make a plan first. Then you'll know what you should be doing.

3) Notice the results you're getting from the actions you're taking.
This one almost nobody does. What results are your current actions achieving? Are they moving you closer to your main goal? By what criteria are you measuring your progress? Do those criteria even make sense?

It should be obvious to anybody that looks at the issue that our educational efforts have not been a stellar success thus far.

Why not? What are we doing wrong? What IS working so we can do more of it? What ISN'T working?

That brings us to the last step:

4) If what you're doing isn't working, CHANGE YOUR APPROACH.
Again, almost nobody does this. Most just keep doing the exact same things they have been doing and expecting different results.

Again focusing specifically on our educational efforts, why aren't they working as well as we'd like?

Let's face it, if Ron Paul's presidential run actually did "awaken" as many people as is commonly claimed, if all it took to do so was to run for public office and publicize our ideas through that means, this movement SHOULD be growing at an almost exponential rate. It isn't It's growing very slowly if much at all. Why?

Until we're actually willing to face such realities, and find honest answers to these kinds of simple questions, notjing's going to get better.




2.) Education can extend into information and services that can help people become more self-sufficient, smarter about money, and rely less on government.


This is one area where I think we could make massive progress, if anyone would get behind it and actually do something.

My opinion is that one of the very basic challenges we face is that the overwhelming majority of the general public has come to be dependent on government in just about every area of life.

They depend upon govt to educate their children, to "protect" them from all kinds of various "evils" both real and imagined, to regulate this, that and the other so they can feel safe and secure, to provide a "safety net" in case they get into financial trouble, the list goes on, and on.

Government cultivates this dependence in every conceivable way, and the MSM goes right along with the program. A problem is presented that govt can "solve." They "do something" and the problem gets worse, leading to calls for more govt action to "fix" the problem they likely caused to begin with. It's a cycle of dependence, and people buy into it because they've been trained all their lives that they're simply not capable of dealing with their challenges themselves.

Hell, even among the so-called liberty movement we have lots of people seeking to depend upon govt to "defend their rights," "establish justice," etc.

You're simply NOT going to overcome that with media soundbites and political ads. And, until we manage to somehow break the cycle of dependence everything else we do is likely to be of marginal utility, at best.

That's why I think it's so important that we put serious effort into teaching people to be more INdependent in any way we possibly can. If they're allowed to continue to feel like they can't manage their lives on their own, liberty with all its inherent risk simply won't be attractive to them.

Anyway, this is WAY longer than I'd intended, so I'll call it quits for now. Hope it gives ytou some idea where I'm coming from.

[Matthew Zak]

I don't agree with the notion that it's better to spend no more than 20% of your time and effort identifying the problem. Since energy regenerates, figuratively and literally, I don't see why you can't continuously, aggressively comb through issues to identify problems, while finding solutions. I think it's better to fully understand the problem before trying to convince someone else that it is indeed a problem.

[CCTelander]

I don't agree with the notion that it's better to spend no more than 20% of your time and effort identifying the problem. Since energy regenerates, figuratively and literally, I don't see why you can't continuously, aggressively comb through issues to identify problems, while finding solutions. I think it's better to fully understand the problem before trying to convince someone else that it is indeed a problem.

Once you've clearly identified a specific problem, you need to move on to finding solutions.

However, there's nothing to say that you can't revisit the matter at a later date if, for example, more information becomes available. Just that if you allow yourself to get bogged down in defining the problem in ever more minute detail, you'll never actually do anything about it.

[cbc58]

I guess my take is to follow the same path I took to get here. The more and more I learned about how the system works and what is really going on... the more I feel something has to be done to fix it.

For me education means not having to convince anyone of anything... they will learn that by themsleves by getting more involved. Create a localized system that lets people get involved and makes it easy to learn what's happening and the issues that effect them.

An ideal goal, as I see it, is to create a proactive information and education system that freely and automatically updates citizens on local, regional and national issues that effect them. Once they learn just how screwed up things are and that they can have a voice in change... they will work to actually make change happen.

As I said before... if they got a bill for $800 each month that they would have to pay for the cost of the war or entitlements... they'd be all over issues and very vocal. Knowing the true situation would motivate people to become more self-sufficient because they'd realize they have to be.