I Give Up. Its Time To Shrug Like Atlas

[Captain Shays]

Please let me begin by saying that I am as well informed as many of the patriot movement and way more than the average TV watcher-news paper reader. I have spent the better part of the last 10 years reading Von Mises, Ayn Rand, Ed Griffen, Ron Paul, Rothbard, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the anti-Federalist Papers. I have spent hour upon hour watching patriot videos, Infowars, Strattfor, Lew Rockwell, and just about every source imaginable from left to right to radical to Al Jazera to everything I can get my hands on.

I have been active in Ron Paul's campaign, Liberty Forest, Downsizer Dispatch, Opendebates.com etc etc etc.

Today I watched David Walker and Allen Greenspan on CSPAN addressing the financial committee and already knowing how broke and how deep in debt this country is it dawned on me that there isn't anything any of us can do. Its too far gone. The globalist/socialists/fascists/neocons/Fabians have had their hooks in so deep in so many crevices and so many institutions from the media to public education to higher education that the vast majority of Americans has been so effectively hoodwinked, propagandized and lied to for so long, it too far gone.

I recall reading Atlas Shrugged and have come to the same conclusion that Hank Rearden, and John Galt and Fransico came to. Its time to pull up and give them ALL that they want.

If all of us people of character and ability pull up and stop producing we can starve the bastards right out. All they will have is their government jobs left and their union failures and in no time it will all come crumbling down.

I would guess that it would fall into an armed revolution when the looters can't get their checks and handouts from the government (working people) and they will get hungry and start to rob openly and loot as is their character.

All these government programs and handouts essentially have made slaves of all of us who work and produce for we are feeding the lazy thieves and looters and it cannot go on like this any longer.

I want to completely bankrupt the system. If all of us quit our jobs and pull up stakes in our businesses and go on the government dole like the rest of the looters and take all we can get until it breaks down completely then finally we can come in and pick up the pieces.

Of course we all have homes, families, credit, soccer practice and tickets to the next football game. We've already bought our plane tickets to Florida or the Islands. We're getting ready for Christmas and making plans for NYE.
We have payrolls to make and car payments and dentist appointments and medicine to take to keep us alive.

But Ayn Rand was right. Its the way to break their system. Give the bastards all they want to show them once and for all how wrong they are.

[FrankRep]

Secession!

Join the Texas Nationalist Movement. :D

Texas Nationalist Movement
http://www.TexasNationalist.com/

[Mini-Me]

Please let me begin by saying that I am as well informed as many of the patriot movement and way more than the average TV watcher-news paper reader. I have spent the better part of the last 10 years reading Von Mises, Ayn Rand, Ed Griffen, Ron Paul, Rothbard, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the anti-Federalist Papers. I have spent hour upon hour watching patriot videos, Infowars, Strattfor, Lew Rockwell, and just about every source imaginable from left to right to radical to Al Jazera to everything I can get my hands on.

I have been active in Ron Paul's campaign, Liberty Forest, Downsizer Dispatch, Opendebates.com etc etc etc.

Today I watched David Walker and Allen Greenspan on CSPAN addressing the financial committee and already knowing how broke and how deep in debt this country is it dawned on me that there isn't anything any of us can do. Its too far gone. The globalist/socialists/fascists/neocons/Fabians have had their hooks in so deep in so many crevices and so many institutions from the media to public education to higher education that the vast majority of Americans has been so effectively hoodwinked, propagandized and lied to for so long, it too far gone.

I recall reading Atlas Shrugged and have come to the same conclusion that Hank Rearden, and John Galt and Fransico came to. Its time to pull up and give them ALL that they want.

If all of us people of character and ability pull up and stop producing we can starve the bastards right out. All they will have is their government jobs left and their union failures and in no time it will all come crumbling down.

I would guess that it would fall into an armed revolution when the looters can't get their checks and handouts from the government (working people) and they will get hungry and start to rob openly and loot as is their character.

All these government programs and handouts essentially have made slaves of all of us who work and produce for we are feeding the lazy thieves and looters and it cannot go on like this any longer.

I want to completely bankrupt the system. If all of us quit our jobs and pull up stakes in our businesses and go on the government dole like the rest of the looters and take all we can get until it breaks down completely then finally we can come in and pick up the pieces.

Of course we all have homes, families, credit, soccer practice and tickets to the next football game. We've already bought our plane tickets to Florida or the Islands. We're getting ready for Christmas and making plans for NYE.
We have payrolls to make and car payments and dentist appointments and medicine to take to keep us alive.

But Ayn Rand was right. Its the way to break their system. Give the bastards all they want to show them once and for all how wrong they are.

The problem here is that we will never show them "once and for all how wrong they are." They're simply too stupid to learn from history. I mean, we had demonstrators agitating for Communism - COMMUNISM of all things - just the other day at Copenhagen. They had sickle-and-hammer Soviet flags and everything. These people weren't even arrogant elites thinking they can skim off the top as always and that this time maybe it won't collapse entirely; these were regular people who actually think a communist world would be a better world, despite all of 20th century history showing exactly how wrong they are in the most brutal way possible.

There will never, ever be a shortage of idiots (and/or sociopaths) clamoring for more centralized power. Even if the current crop did miraculously learn from their mistakes, they would only be replaced by "new and improved" idiots. Letting them have what they want may possibly give us a chance to rebuild from the ashes - maybe, if we're lucky - but who knows how many years of misery we'll suffer through for that chance? Worst of all, no matter what happens, nobody is going to learn their lesson "once and for all."

[TCE]

Please let me begin by saying that I am as well informed as many of the patriot movement and way more than the average TV watcher-news paper reader. I have spent the better part of the last 10 years reading Von Mises, Ayn Rand, Ed Griffen, Ron Paul, Rothbard, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the anti-Federalist Papers. I have spent hour upon hour watching patriot videos, Infowars, Strattfor, Lew Rockwell, and just about every source imaginable from left to right to radical to Al Jazera to everything I can get my hands on.

I have been active in Ron Paul's campaign, Liberty Forest, Downsizer Dispatch, Opendebates.com etc etc etc.

Today I watched David Walker and Allen Greenspan on CSPAN addressing the financial committee and already knowing how broke and how deep in debt this country is it dawned on me that there isn't anything any of us can do. Its too far gone. The globalist/socialists/fascists/neocons/Fabians have had their hooks in so deep in so many crevices and so many institutions from the media to public education to higher education that the vast majority of Americans has been so effectively hoodwinked, propagandized and lied to for so long, it too far gone.

I recall reading Atlas Shrugged and have come to the same conclusion that Hank Rearden, and John Galt and Fransico came to. Its time to pull up and give them ALL that they want.

If all of us people of character and ability pull up and stop producing we can starve the bastards right out. All they will have is their government jobs left and their union failures and in no time it will all come crumbling down.

I would guess that it would fall into an armed revolution when the looters can't get their checks and handouts from the government (working people) and they will get hungry and start to rob openly and loot as is their character.

All these government programs and handouts essentially have made slaves of all of us who work and produce for we are feeding the lazy thieves and looters and it cannot go on like this any longer.

I want to completely bankrupt the system. If all of us quit our jobs and pull up stakes in our businesses and go on the government dole like the rest of the looters and take all we can get until it breaks down completely then finally we can come in and pick up the pieces.

Of course we all have homes, families, credit, soccer practice and tickets to the next football game. We've already bought our plane tickets to Florida or the Islands. We're getting ready for Christmas and making plans for NYE.
We have payrolls to make and car payments and dentist appointments and medicine to take to keep us alive.

But Ayn Rand was right. Its the way to break their system. Give the bastards all they want to show them once and for all how wrong they are.

If we do what you suggest, what do we do when everything collapses? We'll have no job, no experience, have been out of work for a while, no food, no anything. The first step is to make sure you can survive if everything collapses: Food delivery, water, electricity, everything. If you can plan for that, then anything else that will happen is going to be easier to handle.

Another fundamental problem is: That is what the people in power want. If all of the Americans give up their jobs, they can just outsource everything or give jobs to illegal aliens. That leads to what I first suggested, that if we all quit our jobs, we're useless after it all comes back together again.

[Captain Shays]

Mini Me

You're probably right. But that was in Denmark. Even here in the USA it's too far gone because our universities and public schools are populated with collectivists. Our media pumps out collectivist dogma every hour of every day. Even so called "conservative" politicians in the Republican Party are collectivists. Not one of them has the balls to come out and tell the American people that ALL of the unconstitutional programs that re-distribute money from one person to another or from one group to another is not only unconstitutional but unsustainable and bankrupting the entire country.

Just about every one of the Republican idiots under the guise of "being strong on defense" have fully embraced the progressive liberal, globalist idea of policing the world despite that fact that it too is unconstitutional, against the sound advice of our founding fathers and usually fails, while driving us into debt.

Every program that is not allowed in the enumerated powers from socialist insecurity, to socialist medicaid, to socialist medicare, socialist Dept of Ed, socialist, housing, socialist welfare, socialist prescription drugs, socialist housing, foodstamps etc is not only unconstitutional but its unsustainable and fully embraced by the vast majority of Republicans because they don't have the balls to stand on principle for fear of losing votes.

The other programs that are not allowed are robbing us of our freedoms whether the FBI, FTA, EPA, DHS and all the other draconian freedom robbing unconstitutional police state programs.

I guess my main point is something has to give and it has to give soon whether an organized armed rebellion, a voting booth take over or Atlas Shrugging. It cannot go on like this much longer without our government coming in with heavy horse and rounding us all up and or killing us.

[Captain Shays]

TCE

Then let's start up somewhere else. The free state project is looking pretty good right now. I just want to find a way to starve the bastards any way I can.

[FrankRep]

TCE

Then let's start up somewhere else. The free state project is looking pretty good right now. I just want to find a way to starve the bastards any way I can.
New Hampshire is too cold. :(

[Captain Shays]

South Carolina is one of the states who has written bills expressing their state sovereignty but their police force is very abusive and authoritarian and their government schools are preaching collectivism with the best. But its warmer down there and they have a relatively low population density so it wouldn't take that many of us to take it over.

[dr. hfn]

Free State Project

[FSP-Rebel]

New Hampshire is too cold. :(
The cold didn't stop Washington and the troops at Valley Forge. Many of them didn't have the proper attire but we have what they call coats and heaters up here. We also have more liberty activists per capita than anywhere else in the world, plus we have new people moving in every week. FSP FTW!:cool:

[Epic]

New Hampshire is too cold. :(

It's 72 degrees all the time... inside.

[cbc58]

Captain,

I hear you loud and clear. We are not doing enough and nothing is going to change unless everybody gets in the act and does something in a coordinated way. I have been saying this since RP announced his intent to run.

People like to come here and talk and write messages and share stories and ideas... and that's great... but there is a key piece missing.... which is to come together and take action BEYOND and outside the RP/liberty movement. 98% of the public are outside of this and no one really knows what to do or how to do it.

Many people here seem content to just let things go and then act in a reactionary fashion. I say be proactive and think outside of the liberty movement so that others will get involved. It takes money and effort. I hate seeing money donated to the cause to be spent on advertising that is a one shot deal and isn't effective. If we do it right we can take donated money and make it work over and over again long-term... which is what we need.

There are alot of smart people here and if we put our heads together we can make waves and get more people involved.

I think you hit the nail on the head: they have no business without the consumer.. so hit them where it hurts and they'll have to change.

[cheapseats]

New Hampshire is too cold. :(



The cold didn't stop Washington and the troops at Valley Forge. Many of them didn't have the proper attire but we have what they call coats and heaters up here. We also have more liberty activists per capita than anywhere else in the world, plus we have new people moving in every week. FSP FTW!:cool:


The more reason to begin seriously re-populating a second free-er state.

One with more oceanfront.

[heavenlyboy34]

It seems to me that education and disseminating written material is the best long term strategy. The vast majority of people are too lazy to find information for themselves. We are in a tragically post-literate age. :( It seems that the best results will come from becoming as literate in the theory and practice of individual liberty as possible and keep it at the fore of public discussion. The liberty movement is always going to be dismissed as "quacks" by the establishment and the leftist revolutionaries. If TPTB are overwhelmed by logic and evidence, they are more likely to fall. JMHO.


Captain,

I hear you loud and clear. We are not doing enough and nothing is going to change unless everybody gets in the act and does something in a coordinated way. I have been saying this since RP announced his intent to run.

People like to come here and talk and write messages and share stories and ideas... and that's great... but there is a key piece missing.... which is to come together and take action BEYOND and outside the RP/liberty movement. 98% of the public are outside of this and no one really knows what to do or how to do it.

Many people here seem content to just let things go and then act in a reactionary fashion. I say be proactive and think outside of the liberty movement so that others will get involved. It takes money and effort. I hate seeing money donated to the cause to be spent on advertising that is a one shot deal and isn't effective. If we do it right we can take donated money and make it work over and over again long-term... which is what we need.

There are alot of smart people here and if we put our heads together we can make waves and get more people involved.

I think you hit the nail on the head: they have no business without the consumer.. so hit them where it hurts and they'll have to change.

[Athan]

Dude, shrug and buy gold and silver! That is way more effective!

[Promontorium]

If I had free land to do so, I would have long ago. It then becomes a moral dilemma. To fight for a new union, or to simply accept the existing ones. If you chose to fight, who do you fight?

My first idea was Antarctica, because it has the only land left on earth not claimed by any nation. But that would require billions to invest in infrastructure to make it liveable (like living on the moon).

My next idea was Cuba. Hoping maybe when Castro got old and died the nation would fall into chaos, but with the immortal Castros, I who was born decades upon decades upon decades after Fidel was already old, will be old myself before that fucker dies, so no bueno.

Thirdly I dreamed of Baja. Like the old filibusters of the 1800s, who went into Mexico and central/south America, I would have to convince the locals to support a rebellion. But again that would take at least million of dollars, and years of effort.

Now I think the only "practical" way is to make my own territory from nothing, which requires the fanciful and exceedingly expensive ideas, like turning atolls into habitable islands, or making a city ship. In this pursuit, both ideas have been attempted, and failed. It doesn't mean they are doomed to failure though.


Another option would be to get land from a third world country. A lot of nations would be perfectly willing to allow a city-state to develop with the right financial incentives. This is probably the best chance, as it has been done effectively in the past, but there is one potential drawback, sometimes the poor country sees the green grass and becomes envious, and then they take it all back.

[Athan]

If I had free land to do so, I would have long ago. It then becomes a moral dilemma. To fight for a new union, or to simply accept the existing ones. If you chose to fight, who do you fight?

My first idea was Antarctica, because it has the only land left on earth not claimed by any nation. But that would require billions to invest in infrastructure to make it liveable (like living on the moon).

My next idea was Cuba. Hoping maybe when Castro got old and died the nation would fall into chaos, but with the immortal Castros, I who was born decades upon decades upon decades after Fidel was already old, will be old myself before that fucker dies, so no bueno.

Thirdly I dreamed of Baja. Like the old filibusters of the 1800s, who went into Mexico and central/south America, I would have to convince the locals to support a rebellion. But again that would take at least million of dollars, and years of effort.

Now I think the only "practical" way is to make my own territory from nothing, which requires the fanciful and exceedingly expensive ideas, like turning atolls into habitable islands, or making a city ship. In this pursuit, both ideas have been attempted, and failed. It doesn't mean they are doomed to failure though.


Another option would be to get land from a third world country. A lot of nations would be perfectly willing to allow a city-state to develop with the right financial incentives. This is probably the best chance, as it has been done effectively in the past, but there is one potential drawback, sometimes the poor country sees the green grass and becomes envious, and then they take it all back.

Dude do you HAVE that type of cash on you? I wouldn't mind renting spot on that boat.

:D

[Promontorium]

Dude do you HAVE that type of cash on you? I wouldn't mind renting spot on that boat.

:D

I'm the idea man. The money man is someone, or many someones else.

[ScoutsHonor]

//

[FrankRep]

The more reason to begin seriously re-populating a second free-er state.

One with more oceanfront.

Texas Nationalist Movement
http://www.TexasNationalist.com/

[cbc58]

Dude, shrug and buy gold and silver! That is way more effective!

how is that effective?

[cbc58]

It seems to me that education and disseminating written material is the best long term strategy. The vast majority of people are too lazy to find information for themselves. We are in a tragically post-literate age. :( It seems that the best results will come from becoming as literate in the theory and practice of individual liberty as possible and keep it at the fore of public discussion.

I tend to agree with you... however I think the end goal of promoting individual liberty, smaller government and fiscal responsibility can be achieved much, much faster by taking a more central view and getting more people involved in the political process. Doing that will foster change and as they get educated to what is really going on. People are apathetic and lazy, and understanding that, we need to come up with a system that gets them involved to the point where they get concerned or mad and start to do something about the problems.

I guarantee you that if people received a bill in the mail for their equal shared cost of the war or entitlement programs each month... that they'd have to pay within 30 days, they'd be all over it asking questions and speaking up.

What we need, IMHO, is a system to proactivley get information to the public (everyone) on a regular basis that just gives them the facts and news about proposed legislation and the impact of that legislation. Local, state and national level. That's all we'd have to do and then we'd get everyone (not just RP's) involved and things would start happening much, much faster.

[YumYum]

: "If all of us quit our jobs and pull up stakes in our businesses and go on the government dole like the rest of the looters and take all we can get until it breaks down completely then finally we can come in and pick up the pieces."

Invest in "FEMA RESORTS" timeshares. Why? Cause we're all going camping!

[torchbearer]

: "If all of us quit our jobs and pull up stakes in our businesses and go on the government dole like the rest of the looters and take all we can get until it breaks down completely then finally we can come in and pick up the pieces."

Invest in "FEMA RESORTS" timeshares. Why? Cause we're all going camping!

I'm bringin' the hot dogs!

[Travlyr]

It is not time to give up! It is time to double down... spread the message far and wide.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I was never a big fan of Atlas Shrugged. I'm more of an Alongside Night kind of guy. I also vehemently disagree with your "solution". What we should be doing is not halting our production and businesses it should be taking them under ground or to the "black market" where you bypass taxes and regulation; AGORISM.


I was thinking a first good step would be with an alternate currency. We all know what happened with the Liberty Dollar, but if we all simply refused to use FRN's and instead used gold, silver, copper, platinum, etc. Without specific "vendors" would work.
I'm also thinking that there would eventually be defense agencies / police to come about that would protect the interests of those in the black market. I had a few good entrepreniurial ideas about that. Have it packaged insurance with fire and police. Could work very well.

I stress don't go the Galt way, go the Konkin way!

[mport1]

Yes, politics is futile and often counter-productive, especially on the national level. The Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org) is the best chance we have for liberty.

[phill4paul]

: Invest in "FEMA RESORTS" timeshares. Why? Cause we're all going camping!

Would that be on a "time-share" basis.:p

[phill4paul]

I'm bringin' the hot dogs!

and just how are you smuggling those in?:p

[TCE]

Dude, shrug and buy gold and silver! That is way more effective!

how is that effective?

Because what happens if all of us are relying on the government? Eventually, the government will go bankrupt and all of us will have nothing. If you have PM's, food, other worthwhile items, then you can survive without the government. The former without the latter is a train wreck waiting to happen.

[Captain Shays]

Captain,

I hear you loud and clear. We are not doing enough and nothing is going to change unless everybody gets in the act and does something in a coordinated way. I have been saying this since RP announced his intent to run.

People like to come here and talk and write messages and share stories and ideas... and that's great... but there is a key piece missing.... which is to come together and take action BEYOND and outside the RP/liberty movement. 98% of the public are outside of this and no one really knows what to do or how to do it.

Many people here seem content to just let things go and then act in a reactionary fashion. I say be proactive and think outside of the liberty movement so that others will get involved. It takes money and effort. I hate seeing money donated to the cause to be spent on advertising that is a one shot deal and isn't effective. If we do it right we can take donated money and make it work over and over again long-term... which is what we need.

There are alot of smart people here and if we put our heads together we can make waves and get more people involved.

I think you hit the nail on the head: they have no business without the consumer.. so hit them where it hurts and they'll have to change.


cbc58 I asked and received an answer today.

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20091218.html

I actually voted for Chuck Baldwin and I am very proud of it. I get his emails regularly as well as Ron Paul's and for the most part I find myself in agreement with at least 95% of both of them. If you guys remember Baldwin was angry with Dr Paul for not running as an independent and Ron Paul fully endorsed Baldwin for president.

Todays piece outlines our path and points out many of the same things that made me want to give up and "shrug". An out of control and unresponsive Federal Govt. Dumbed down public education. Spending, insane foreign policy, loss of liberties, ignoring our Constitution etc etc etc.

We all pretty much hit on it in our responses like mentioning the free state project.

Baldwin points out the various states who have sovereignty bills and how we can take our country back state by state.
I wanted to "shrug" because I realized that the Federal Govt will only continue to ignore us and the Constitution while driving us deeper and deeper into debt/servitude while making enemies of us around the world and either slowly or in huge chunks depriving us of our God given freedoms.

He just says it so much better than I so please read his article and get back to the rest of us with your thoughts.

[tremendoustie]

New Hampshire is too cold. :(

NH is beautiful. You just turn on the heat in the winter instead of turning on the AC in the summer, and it's always easier to put more cloths on than take off your skin ;).

Here's some average temperature data for Portsmouth: http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USNH0191?from=search

[tremendoustie]

Yes, politics is futile and often counter-productive, especially on the national level. The Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org) is the best chance we have for liberty.

I disagree about politics, especially when it is very public and very principled -- I think it accomplishes a great deal educationally, at the very least. That said, I definitely support the FSP. If politics is your thing, do it in NH!

[Nate]

I was never a big fan of Atlas Shrugged. I'm more of an Alongside Night kind of guy. I also vehemently disagree with your "solution". What we should be doing is not halting our production and businesses it should be taking them under ground or to the "black market" where you bypass taxes and regulation; AGORISM.


I was thinking a first good step would be with an alternate currency. We all know what happened with the Liberty Dollar, but if we all simply refused to use FRN's and instead used gold, silver, copper, platinum, etc. Without specific "vendors" would work.
I'm also thinking that there would eventually be defense agencies / police to come about that would protect the interests of those in the black market. I had a few good entrepreniurial ideas about that. Have it packaged insurance with fire and police. Could work very well.

I stress don't go the Galt way, go the Konkin way!

DING, DING, DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!

This is what I'm doing. Taking my productive services on the black market where parasites can't take what they didn't earn. I quit my job & closed my bank account about 6 months ago, I work for cash right now "under the table" but have already informed my customers that I currently accept hard currency & will give better deals for it since all I do with FRN's is trade them for real money anyway. I pay my rent in gold (with no "official" paperwork), get ALL mail sent to my box @ Mailboxes ETC, grow my own food in my rooftop perma-culture garden, produce my own electricity by solar panels w/diesel backup & produce my own water supply with a humidity condenser. It can cost a little bit of money to get it all started but it is sooooooooo worth it. I actually kinda feel free already. Once I get a little more stable over the next 6 months-1 year I'm going to actively build my already growing local agorist network.

I'd highly recommend to anybody thinking about doing this to focus on producing/acquiring your own food, water & electricity first. Then comes the hard part, earning enough on the black market so that you don't need a "legit" job. This I can't advise on since you have to figure out what talents & skills you personally possess that are of value to your neighbor & how to market it to them.

UNPLUG FROM THE SYSTEM! STARVE THE BEAST!

[Athan]

how is that effective?

To simplify what happens when you go out and buy physical gold and silver with federal reserve notes is similar to you actually "cashing in" your small monetary lottery tickets that no one seems to be cashing in because they are to busy trading them as currency as if it was real money. Dollars used to be backed by something which was a traditional commodity such as gold and silver. This is no longer true because not many were smart or informed enough to ask for gold and silver anymore.

If this trend ends, it means the fed is doomed they will be forced to transfer all the gold they have into circulation of the actual American economy.

The fact is the Federal Reserve does NOT have the ability to back up the substantial amounts of debt it is inuring. It in no way has the trillions of dollars of commodity money to back up its gold holdings. As an American Patriot you should call in the commodity backed debt of service you are owed by these thieves.

When you buy gold and silver, you drain the life blood of the hydra (real money that no one who services their needs cares to claim) and kill it.

[YumYum]

To simplify what happens when you go out and buy physical gold and silver with federal reserve notes is similar to you actually "cashing in" your small monetary lottery tickets that no one seems to be cashing in because they are to busy trading them as currency as if it was real money. Dollars used to be backed by something which was a traditional commodity such as gold and silver. This is no longer true because not many were smart or informed enough to ask for gold and silver anymore.

If this trend ends, it means the fed is doomed they will be forced to transfer all the gold they have into circulation of the actual American economy.

The fact is the Federal Reserve does NOT have the ability to back up the substantial amounts of debt it is inuring. It in no way has the trillions of dollars of commodity money to back up its gold holdings. As an American Patriot you should call in the commodity backed debt of service you are owed by these thieves.

When you buy gold and silver, you drain the life blood of the hydra (real money that no one who services their needs cares to claim) and kill it.

The debt is not the obligation of the Fed. It is the obligation of the American people. The Fed can walk and we are stuck with the bill.

[tremendoustie]

The debt is not the obligation of the Fed. It is the obligation of the American people. The Fed can walk and we are stuck with the bill.

Well, I wouldn't say it's our obligation, but we're certainly going to be the ones with the guns pointed at our heads to pay it.

[tremendoustie]

DING, DING, DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!

This is what I'm doing. Taking my productive services on the black market where parasites can't take what they didn't earn. I quit my job & closed my bank account about 6 months ago, I work for cash right now "under the table" but have already informed my customers that I currently accept hard currency & will give better deals for it since all I do with FRN's is trade them for real money anyway. I pay my rent in gold (with no "official" paperwork), get ALL mail sent to my box @ Mailboxes ETC, grow my own food in my rooftop perma-culture garden, produce my own electricity by solar panels w/diesel backup & produce my own water supply with a humidity condenser. It can cost a little bit of money to get it all started but it is sooooooooo worth it. I actually kinda feel free already. Once I get a little more stable over the next 6 months-1 year I'm going to actively build my already growing local agorist network.

I'd highly recommend to anybody thinking about doing this to focus on producing/acquiring your own food, water & electricity first. Then comes the hard part, earning enough on the black market so that you don't need a "legit" job. This I can't advise on since you have to figure out what talents & skills you personally possess that are of value to your neighbor & how to market it to them.

UNPLUG FROM THE SYSTEM! STARVE THE BEAST!

Wow, I'm impressed :).


By the way, if you or anyone has a business in Los Angeles area, and is willing barter in silver, PM me to get a potential customer.

[Mini-Me]

Well, I wouldn't say it's our obligation, but we're certainly going to be the ones with the guns pointed at our heads to pay it.

I think it depends. I mean, if a few states secede before the federal government goes officially bankrupt, the people of those states may escape bondage. :)

[Athan]

The debt is not the obligation of the Fed. It is the obligation of the American people. The Fed can walk and we are stuck with the bill.

They can't really just walk away either though. They told the treasury to mark up those federal reserve notes in their name almost the same as one of us telling the government we are going to buy a billion dollars worth of bonds and to just start printing them out.

That is fraud. Fraud we will have to foot the bill for, but fraud nonetheless.

[tremendoustie]

I think it depends. I mean, if a few states secede before the federal government goes officially bankrupt, the people of those states may escape bondage. :)

Yeah, I don't think it'll get so far as a slave type situation, but they'll certainly keep leeching off of us as long as they can. I certainly agree, and hope states keep working toward nullification and independence.

[YumYum]

They can't really just walk away either though. They told the treasury to mark up those federal reserve notes in their name almost the same as one of us telling the government we are going to buy a billion dollars worth of bonds and to just start printing them out.

That is fraud. Fraud we will have to foot the bill for, but fraud nonetheless.

What happens if we end the Fed? We don't even know who the individuals are who own the Fed, so how can we hold them accountable?

[RM918]

New Hampshire is too cold. :(

Why couldn't they have the Free State Project in Hawaii?

[QueenB4Liberty]

DING, DING, DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!

This is what I'm doing. Taking my productive services on the black market where parasites can't take what they didn't earn. I quit my job & closed my bank account about 6 months ago, I work for cash right now "under the table" but have already informed my customers that I currently accept hard currency & will give better deals for it since all I do with FRN's is trade them for real money anyway. I pay my rent in gold (with no "official" paperwork), get ALL mail sent to my box @ Mailboxes ETC, grow my own food in my rooftop perma-culture garden, produce my own electricity by solar panels w/diesel backup & produce my own water supply with a humidity condenser. It can cost a little bit of money to get it all started but it is sooooooooo worth it. I actually kinda feel free already. Once I get a little more stable over the next 6 months-1 year I'm going to actively build my already growing local agorist network.

I'd highly recommend to anybody thinking about doing this to focus on producing/acquiring your own food, water & electricity first. Then comes the hard part, earning enough on the black market so that you don't need a "legit" job. This I can't advise on since you have to figure out what talents & skills you personally possess that are of value to your neighbor & how to market it to them.

UNPLUG FROM THE SYSTEM! STARVE THE BEAST!


I think this is a great idea. The system is going to collapse, it's not a matter of if anymore, that ship is sailed. But who really knows when it'll happen? The vast majority of Americans are too indoctrinated and too far gone. It's tiring arguing with the same people about the same issues that are really common sense if you actually think about it. This culture is insane. If you want to take advantage of government services to starve the beast faster, that's one way, and I mean don't become dependent on the government, but if you can, take advantage of them. Other than that, prepare yourselves for the collapse. We know it's coming. It's a great idea to try and save as much food/learn to grow your own, get alternative water and energy sources, try and find others with like minds.

But no matter how much talking about liberty and sound money we try and put out there, the majority of people simply cannot be reached and it's time we stop wasting our time with them and prepare ourselves for what is to come.

[heavenlyboy34]

I'm afraid I disagree. This approach would create a power/money vacuum that would inevitably be filled by the most immoral and corrupt members of society (mostly the political class). :p I feel that a private infrastructure must be built first. This will prevent a new cycle of violence. (which the State is always trying to perpetuate, btw) :cool:


P.S. dittos to the secessionists above ^^

Please let me begin by saying that I am as well informed as many of the patriot movement and way more than the average TV watcher-news paper reader. I have spent the better part of the last 10 years reading Von Mises, Ayn Rand, Ed Griffen, Ron Paul, Rothbard, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the anti-Federalist Papers. I have spent hour upon hour watching patriot videos, Infowars, Strattfor, Lew Rockwell, and just about every source imaginable from left to right to radical to Al Jazera to everything I can get my hands on.

I have been active in Ron Paul's campaign, Liberty Forest, Downsizer Dispatch, Opendebates.com etc etc etc.

Today I watched David Walker and Allen Greenspan on CSPAN addressing the financial committee and already knowing how broke and how deep in debt this country is it dawned on me that there isn't anything any of us can do. Its too far gone. The globalist/socialists/fascists/neocons/Fabians have had their hooks in so deep in so many crevices and so many institutions from the media to public education to higher education that the vast majority of Americans has been so effectively hoodwinked, propagandized and lied to for so long, it too far gone.

I recall reading Atlas Shrugged and have come to the same conclusion that Hank Rearden, and John Galt and Fransico came to. Its time to pull up and give them ALL that they want.

If all of us people of character and ability pull up and stop producing we can starve the bastards right out. All they will have is their government jobs left and their union failures and in no time it will all come crumbling down.

I would guess that it would fall into an armed revolution when the looters can't get their checks and handouts from the government (working people) and they will get hungry and start to rob openly and loot as is their character.

All these government programs and handouts essentially have made slaves of all of us who work and produce for we are feeding the lazy thieves and looters and it cannot go on like this any longer.

I want to completely bankrupt the system. If all of us quit our jobs and pull up stakes in our businesses and go on the government dole like the rest of the looters and take all we can get until it breaks down completely then finally we can come in and pick up the pieces.

Of course we all have homes, families, credit, soccer practice and tickets to the next football game. We've already bought our plane tickets to Florida or the Islands. We're getting ready for Christmas and making plans for NYE.
We have payrolls to make and car payments and dentist appointments and medicine to take to keep us alive.

But Ayn Rand was right. Its the way to break their system. Give the bastards all they want to show them once and for all how wrong they are.

[tremendoustie]

Why couldn't they have the Free State Project in Hawaii?

NH wasn't chosen arbitrarily: http://www.freestateproject.org/files/101-Reasons-to-Move-to-NH.pdf

Hawaii''s culture is far less liberty-oriented (quite the opposite), and has a far more intrusive and less accessible government.

[tremendoustie]

What happens if we end the Fed? We don't even know who the individuals are who own the Fed, so how can we hold them accountable?

I think the debt should be mostly defaulted on, with the known participants in the Fed working to pay back those they have harmed.

[Athan]

What happens if we end the Fed? We don't even know who the individuals are who own the Fed, so how can we hold them accountable?

We have an idea of what organizations started the Fed. Anyway that isn't important because it can be dealt with.
What is important is that there is actually people here arguing against Americans buying gold and silver! That is simply a ridiculous!

If a decent percentage (at least the Ron Paul percentage) of Americans have gold and silver in possession, we have bargaining power in our affairs and sovereignty. Power that wouldn't exist at all if we do NOT try to purchase the commodities. We would also have greatly advantageous bargaining power whether the dollar collapses or not.

The Chinese government is promoting its people to do it. How much bargaining power do you think China will have as a result? All we will have to bargain with is the mass refusal to work and our land the government can tax us out of similar to the carpetbaggers of the civil war. How well do you think THAT will turn out?

We don't NEED the Fed either. Local banks can provide all the services the Fed purports to handle and more (lack of such systemic power to screw us through inflation, sell off our country to foreign banks, etc). What we need is sound money, sound money in our savings, and sound money in ready supply.

[cbc58]

I feel that a private infrastructure must be built first.

how do you do that?

[cbc58]

nh is a great place to live.... I lived there for 20 years before moving to nc and plan to move back once property values drop back down to reality.

something must be done about their property tax system though... too high. they need to modify the current use tax system to make it fairer for everyone and not just large property owners. triple the tax on property in current use would be a start.

[Captain Shays]

The answer to my questions continue to unfold in amazing ways

http://www.lewrockwell.com/longcore/longcore15.1.html

[someguyinpa]

nh is a great place to live.... I lived there for 20 years before moving to nc and plan to move back once property values drop back down to reality.

something must be done about their property tax system though... too high. they need to modify the current use tax system to make it fairer for everyone and not just large property owners. triple the tax on property in current use would be a start.

Property taxation is oxymoronic. Property by definition is ownership. The owner is the sovereign or rule maker and has rights. Those who wish to use an owner's land (as a thoroughfare or business, etc.) must get permission from the owner which is a privilege. Those who wish to tax the land owner must get permission or the the land is not truly owned because there is some higher authority. All people should be given clear title in perpetuity to their current or any new land up to 2.5 acres. No land taxes ever. Constitutional taxation only.

[Pericles]

The answer to my questions continue to unfold in amazing ways

http://www.lewrockwell.com/longcore/longcore15.1.html (http://www.lewrockwell.com/longcore/longcore15.1.html)

Further discussion here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=223084 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=223084)

[sevin]

Please let me begin by saying that I am as well informed as many of the patriot movement and way more than the average TV watcher-news paper reader. I have spent the better part of the last 10 years reading Von Mises, Ayn Rand, Ed Griffen, Ron Paul, Rothbard, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the anti-Federalist Papers. I have spent hour upon hour watching patriot videos, Infowars, Strattfor, Lew Rockwell, and just about every source imaginable from left to right to radical to Al Jazera to everything I can get my hands on.

I have been active in Ron Paul's campaign, Liberty Forest, Downsizer Dispatch, Opendebates.com etc etc etc.

Today I watched David Walker and Allen Greenspan on CSPAN addressing the financial committee and already knowing how broke and how deep in debt this country is it dawned on me that there isn't anything any of us can do. Its too far gone. The globalist/socialists/fascists/neocons/Fabians have had their hooks in so deep in so many crevices and so many institutions from the media to public education to higher education that the vast majority of Americans has been so effectively hoodwinked, propagandized and lied to for so long, it too far gone.

I recall reading Atlas Shrugged and have come to the same conclusion that Hank Rearden, and John Galt and Fransico came to. Its time to pull up and give them ALL that they want.

If all of us people of character and ability pull up and stop producing we can starve the bastards right out. All they will have is their government jobs left and their union failures and in no time it will all come crumbling down.

I would guess that it would fall into an armed revolution when the looters can't get their checks and handouts from the government (working people) and they will get hungry and start to rob openly and loot as is their character.

All these government programs and handouts essentially have made slaves of all of us who work and produce for we are feeding the lazy thieves and looters and it cannot go on like this any longer.

I want to completely bankrupt the system. If all of us quit our jobs and pull up stakes in our businesses and go on the government dole like the rest of the looters and take all we can get until it breaks down completely then finally we can come in and pick up the pieces.

Of course we all have homes, families, credit, soccer practice and tickets to the next football game. We've already bought our plane tickets to Florida or the Islands. We're getting ready for Christmas and making plans for NYE.
We have payrolls to make and car payments and dentist appointments and medicine to take to keep us alive.

But Ayn Rand was right. Its the way to break their system. Give the bastards all they want to show them once and for all how wrong they are.

Way ahead of ya, brother.

[Derek Johnson]

Secede, it's legal, and NY, RI, and VA ratified under this condition. Repeal the 17th, 16th or secede.

Simple as that

[Captain Shays]

Secede, it's legal, and NY, RI, and VA ratified under this condition. Repeal the 17th, 16th or secede.

Simple as that

Or go full out with not one freedom project, but a few freedom projects. The states that I think we can win and make inroads and possibly win and take over are new Hampshire, South Carolina, Montana, and Maine.

[Stary Hickory]

When everyone does what you are proposing we become a backwater socialist country. The rulers will still say the same thing....it's the rich mans fault, they will say it was because people have too much freedom. You can pull up stakes and quit...however the only thing that stops a complete takeover is the millions of Americans who won't stand down. I feel just like you sometimes, exhausted and fed up with ignorant people who ruin not only their own lives but mine too using violent aggression. It makes you question humanity.

Just take a break, and come back when you feel collected and help us fight. Giving in for good won't help anything, but we all need a break sometimes.

[LibForestPaul]

If we do what you suggest, what do we do when everything collapses? We'll have no job, no experience, have been out of work for a while, no food, no anything. The first step is to make sure you can survive if everything collapses: Food delivery, water, electricity, everything. If you can plan for that, then anything else that will happen is going to be easier to handle.

Another fundamental problem is: That is what the people in power want. If all of the Americans give up their jobs, they can just outsource everything or give jobs to illegal aliens. That leads to what I first suggested, that if we all quit our jobs, we're useless after it all comes back together again.

Comes back together? How long were the dark ages?

[reardenstone]

You don't need revolution and we can guess that if a Neocon is selected in the primaries that there will be no hope.

My vote then is for uprooting and moving to Free State areas or other migration areas where we can work on local governance.

Unplug from the global marketplace: Buy used
Unplug from the Grid: Generate your own power and water
Unplug from Neocon Republican party: If a Neocon runs in 2012; don't vote. Really. Why help them? Give the finger to the electoral system.

With new "steaded" communities we can put all of our energies into "nullification".


To the OP: I'm there with you. I wasted so much time and energy trying to convert others who seem incapable of imagining life without meddling masters.

Where's the fork?

[reardenstone]

What about North Carolina or Tennessee?

[AuH20]

Please let me begin by saying that I am as well informed as many of the patriot movement and way more than the average TV watcher-news paper reader. I have spent the better part of the last 10 years reading Von Mises, Ayn Rand, Ed Griffen, Ron Paul, Rothbard, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the anti-Federalist Papers. I have spent hour upon hour watching patriot videos, Infowars, Strattfor, Lew Rockwell, and just about every source imaginable from left to right to radical to Al Jazera to everything I can get my hands on.

I have been active in Ron Paul's campaign, Liberty Forest, Downsizer Dispatch, Opendebates.com etc etc etc.

Today I watched David Walker and Allen Greenspan on CSPAN addressing the financial committee and already knowing how broke and how deep in debt this country is it dawned on me that there isn't anything any of us can do. Its too far gone. The globalist/socialists/fascists/neocons/Fabians have had their hooks in so deep in so many crevices and so many institutions from the media to public education to higher education that the vast majority of Americans has been so effectively hoodwinked, propagandized and lied to for so long, it too far gone.

I recall reading Atlas Shrugged and have come to the same conclusion that Hank Rearden, and John Galt and Fransico came to. Its time to pull up and give them ALL that they want.

If all of us people of character and ability pull up and stop producing we can starve the bastards right out. All they will have is their government jobs left and their union failures and in no time it will all come crumbling down.

I would guess that it would fall into an armed revolution when the looters can't get their checks and handouts from the government (working people) and they will get hungry and start to rob openly and loot as is their character.

All these government programs and handouts essentially have made slaves of all of us who work and produce for we are feeding the lazy thieves and looters and it cannot go on like this any longer.

I want to completely bankrupt the system. If all of us quit our jobs and pull up stakes in our businesses and go on the government dole like the rest of the looters and take all we can get until it breaks down completely then finally we can come in and pick up the pieces.

Of course we all have homes, families, credit, soccer practice and tickets to the next football game. We've already bought our plane tickets to Florida or the Islands. We're getting ready for Christmas and making plans for NYE.
We have payrolls to make and car payments and dentist appointments and medicine to take to keep us alive.

But Ayn Rand was right. Its the way to break their system. Give the bastards all they want to show them once and for all how wrong they are.

The scary thing about these progressive slavemasters is that while they may despise us, they need us to feed upon. You are not allowed to leave the plantation on your own accord. Pretty soon I don't think there will be anywhere on this world that is free from this madness.

[mac_hine]

New Hampshire is too cold. :(


Baby! Get your ass up here. The winter does suck but you really gain an appreciation for the warmer seasons. Spring's right around the corner. There's nothing like that first day in the spring when you step outside, feel the warm dewy air, and see all the plants and trees coming back to life. :)

[Thrashertm]

Baby! Get your ass up here. The winter does suck but you really gain an appreciation for the warmer seasons. Spring's right around the corner. There's nothing like that first day in the spring when you step outside, feel the warm dewy air, and see all the plants and trees coming back to life. :)

Asia is another good option. Shameless plug - our company helps move Americans to Asia.

[Thomas]

Demand it in your area!

http://www.atlasshruggedpart1.com/get_involved