What kinds of firearms should citizens allowed to purchase and possess?

[Cynanthrope]

I overheard a discussion that a pro-gun control friend of mine was having with his brother and some of the questions he asked included:

- Should every type of firearm be available for sale and possession?
- Should we allow chain guns, heavy machine guns, and fully automatics to be available for sale and possession?
- Should only semi-auto firearms be legal?

I'm not very knowledgeable on this matter so can some of you provide your insights?

[CCTelander]

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash—for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle401-20070114-06.html

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

If our government somehow (how, I don't know) actually respected the 2nd Amendment, I should be able to purchase WITHOUT HASSLE an AT-4 Anti-Tank disposable recoilless rifle (rocket launcher for the less technical). I should be able to defend my place of residence with the latest military-grade automatic weapon. THAT is the ONLY thing that would keep the government in-line. They wouldn't dare send troops/police into a neighborhood to stomp on people if they knew that most of their goons would be coming back in body bags.

[Danke]

To me it depends on where you live.

Accidental discharge of a bomb in an apartment complex could harm your neighbors. But if you live in a rural area, no problem.

[GunnyFreedom]

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2007/tle401-20070114-06.html

OK, what if genuinely I believe that any citizen should be legally allowed to own whatever weapon without restriction -- just like your quote describes -- and would never ever vote for any form or fashion of gun control whatsoever, but that I would rather avoid the subject of automatic weapons altogether on account of the fact that I believe I can do more good in the House than I can on the street, and the idea of legal machine guns would just scare the hell out of way too many people in my slightly blue-leaning district?

(not people who oppose machine guns mind you, but people who will just assume that anybody who favors legalization "could never win" and will therefore vote for a worse candidate so he "doesn't waste his vote.")

Someone asks me about machine guns, I am going to be noncommittal. I don't have much of a choice in that, because I'm dealing with reality here.

[Romulus]

data mining?

[idiom]

They wouldn't dare send troops/police into a neighborhood to stomp on people if they knew that most of their goons would be coming back in body bags.

Yes they would.

The thing that scares them is the thought of their car, or one of their children's cars exploding because of a pipe bomb.

[pcosmar]

At one time in this country a person could buy any type of weapon in the avarage hardware store or order one through the mail.
It was not a problem.

It did not become a problem till the police state was created.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/35177769_79a70efcb0.jpg

[Cowlesy]

data mining?

:)

[pacelli]

I overheard a discussion that a pro-gun control friend of mine was having with his brother and some of the questions he asked included:

- Should every type of firearm be available for sale and possession?
- Should we allow chain guns, heavy machine guns, and fully automatics to be available for sale and possession?
- Should only semi-auto firearms be legal?

I'm not very knowledgeable on this matter so can some of you provide your insights?


I personally believe that every type of firearm and ordnance should be permitted to use and possess. You can report that to your corporate masters.

[MelissaWV]

Like many things, I see this as mostly solvable by the existance of private property and the protection of those entities' rights to decide what goes on there. For instance, in the example of the apartment complex, the complex owner has a right to regulate what goes on within their building(s). Let's say we legalize all drugs. Does that mean a landlord should suffer tenants putting up meth labs? No. They're fairly dangerous, and they ruin property values (you really can't get the stink out). A restaurant that wants to run "gun-free" should be able to, just like restaurants should be able to run "smoke-free" or "meat-free" if the gimmick suits them.

Out on the streets? I really don't think it would be that huge of an issue. You aren't suddenly going to have people shooting one another with anti-aircraft weaponry for fun. First off, such things would still be expensive. Not everyone is going to be able to afford a tank, even if you can buy one. Second, why? I mean, what's the point? If you want an enemy dead, you can already do this any number of ways, many of them far less messy and traceable than some huge weapon. Remember, I'm not saying to abolish punishment for crimes. What I'm saying is to abolish the assumption that someone with a big gun is going to shoot it at people unsafely like some kind of James Bond super-villain.

[nayjevin]

To me it depends on where you live.

Accidental discharge of a bomb in an apartment complex could harm your neighbors. But if you live in a rural area, no problem.

'Potential' accidental discharge should not be a crime, but accidental discharge which hurts others should result in action toward justice.

Nothing wrong with living in an apartment complex that bans certain types of munitions you don't want to live around.

But guns don't kill people, people kill people.

All munitions should be decriminalized. Government laws don't solve problems - personal responsibility does.

Why Government Doesn't Work (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965603601?ie=UTF8&tag=libertplaygr-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0965603601) by Harry Browne Why Governmen't Doesn't Work PDF (http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/why_govt_doesnt_work.pdf)


Like many things, I see this as mostly solvable by the existance of private property and the protection of those entities' rights to decide what goes on there.

+1

[Southron]

What people don't realize is that a semi automatic battle rifle can be just as deadly in the hands of a skilled shooter as any automatic weapon. I think as long as we have them we are alright in the firepower category.

And if someone were theoretically running for a state representative, I wouldn't touch the issue with a ten foot pole!:)

[nayjevin]

What people don't realize is that a semi automatic battle rifle can be just as deadly in the hands of a skilled shooter as any automatic weapon.

Not to mention a fork and and big rubber band. Or box cutters loll

[Pericles]

What kinds of firearms should citizens allowed to purchase and possess?


Well, let me put it this way:

What kinds of firearms should citizens not be allowed to purchase and possess?

Answer: None

That was easy.

[pcosmar]

What kinds of weapons were available and legal before the Unconstitutional National Firearms Act of 1934?

[Acala]

OK, what if genuinely I believe that any citizen should be legally allowed to own whatever weapon without restriction -- just like your quote describes -- and would never ever vote for any form or fashion of gun control whatsoever, but that I would rather avoid the subject of automatic weapons altogether on account of the fact that I believe I can do more good in the House than I can on the street, and the idea of legal machine guns would just scare the hell out of way too many people in my slightly blue-leaning district?

(not people who oppose machine guns mind you, but people who will just assume that anybody who favors legalization "could never win" and will therefore vote for a worse candidate so he "doesn't waste his vote.")

Someone asks me about machine guns, I am going to be noncommittal. I don't have much of a choice in that, because I'm dealing with reality here.


If I were you, my response would be that it is up to the STATES to decide that question. The States specifically prohibited the Federal government from making that decision. It is a State issue, not a Federal issue. Allowing the Federal government to exercise that power results in people from New York City making firearms laws for people in rural Alaska, among other idiotic results.

[Charlie41]

I overheard a discussion that a pro-gun control friend of mine was having with his brother and some of the questions he asked included:

- Should every type of firearm be available for sale and possession?
- Should we allow chain guns, heavy machine guns, and fully automatics to be available for sale and possession?
- Should only semi-auto firearms be legal?

I'm not very knowledgeable on this matter so can some of you provide your insights?

Legally, assuming the Constitution is the supreme law. There should be no restrictions.

[crushingstep7]

All should be available, which they are. The only thing I'd like to see is the "licenses" and taxes go away.

No more paperwork - it should be treated as any other good in the market. What's next? Forks and knives?

[crushingstep7]

Hey - and seriously now..

should we be allowed to have forks? I mean, multiple prongs are a potential threat to public safety... I think we should replace them with sporks. The world would be a much safer place=)

(hint, sarcasm)

[Gideon]

My private, personal security plan dictates that I will use any and all security tools at my disposal in order to live peaceably and productively.

As far as the need for "Machine Guns," in the hands of the BoR Article 2 Militia:

Ammunition is expensive, and depending upon the rifle, can be heavy to carry.

http://www.hchq.biz/mia_photos/mia_6.jpg

Properly aimed rifle fire (from every household) is the most economically sustainable means for effective Tyrant-Control and conclusive zombie eradication.

Check out the Swiss Militia Model. (http://www.constitution.org/mil/swiss_report.htm)

The local, Militia security model is also in line with the intent of the Articles of Confederation, U.S. Constitution, and most importantly, the Bill of Rights.


On the subject of nukes:

The fiat FRN is the most devastating Weapon of Monetary Destruction in the history of humankind on earth.

[RideTheDirt]

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
none of .gov's business

OP

'CYNANTHROPY' IS A WORD WITH TWO MEANINGS. IT IS, ON THE ONE HAND, MAN'S PRACTICE OF TRANSFORMING HIMSELF INTO A DOG BY MAGICAL MEANS (OR A DOG'S PRACTICE OF TRANSFORMING HIMSELF INTO A MAN); AND, ON THE OTHER, A FORM OF INSANITY IN WHICH THE PATIENT IMAGINES HIMSELF TO BE A DOG AND EXHIBITS THE TASTES, VOICE AND HABITS OF ONE. - LORE OF THE DOG, PATRICIA DALE-GREEN
So which one is it

[RideTheDirt]

data mining?
not sure but so far everything the op has posted is a question...
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/search.php?searchid=4364484



- Should every type of firearm be available for sale and...


Does anyone expect its predictions to be small green...



I know that Ron Paul opposes the welfare state and many govt.-subsidized programs including SS, Medicaid, Medicare, etc.

But, is he opposed to/supportive of the govt. providing welfare benefits...



I've read that Paul opposes most every US military interventionist actions (which I agree with), but what would he have done if he was president during the time that the Rwandan genocide or Darfur...


Considering that Paul advocated terminating the Department of Agriculture, how would he ensure that our food supply is secured and checked?

[Mini-Me]

not sure but so far everything the op has posted is a question...
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/search.php?searchid=4364484

True, but there used to be a lot of that back during the campaign. To me, the OP sounds like he (or she?) mistrusts some of Ron Paul's more "hardcore libertarian" views but wants to give them a fair hearing...and we need more of that. I lurked before posting instead of asking questions myself, but I was the same way (coming over from a liberal point of view...though I was born and raised a damn scary neocon). Speaking of needing more of something, I need more of time away from the forum, so I'll just leave with an obligatory link to RP's own essays and such, bad web design and all. (http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/) ;)

[AFPVet]

Citizens should be able to possess the same weaponry as the military.

[MelissaWV]

Citizens should be able to possess the same weaponry as the military.

To be very technical, if we take the Constitution's context into consideration, citizens should be able to possess BETTER weaponry than the military :P

[pcosmar]

To be very technical, if we take the Constitution's context into consideration, citizens should be able to possess BETTER weaponry than the military :P

:D
You got a kiss coming. ;)

[Expatriate]

It should be a matter for the individual states to handle, since the federal government's constitution prohibits them from infringing upon the right to bear arms. Likewise, most state governments have constitutional prohibitions against infringement as well, so I guess it would be up to individual counties, districts and cities.

The big advantage to actually following our constitutions on this matter would be this:

Say the gun-grabbers are right, and banning guns actually does decrease crime. Well, the individual districts that ban guns should see a measurable decrease in crime that clearly correlates with the ban, right? In the face of such evidence, wouldn't the inhabitants of most other districts demand bans as well?

Controlling guns at the federal level doesn't allow for such comparison, since the legislation applies across the board. So how do we know what effect it has had?

[RideTheDirt]

True, but there used to be a lot of that back during the campaign. To me, the OP sounds like he (or she?) mistrusts some of Ron Paul's more "hardcore libertarian" views but wants to give them a fair hearing...and we need more of that. I lurked before posting instead of asking questions myself, but I was the same way (coming over from a liberal point of view...though I was born and raised a damn scary neocon). Speaking of needing more of something, I need more of time away from the forum, so I'll just leave with an obligatory link to RP's own essays and such, bad web design and all. (http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/) ;)
If this is the case, sorry op.

[osan]

I overheard a discussion that a pro-gun control friend of mine was having with his brother and some of the questions he asked included:

- Should every type of firearm be available for sale and possession?


Yes.


- Should we allow chain guns, heavy machine guns, and fully automatics to be available for sale and possession?

Yes.


- Should only semi-auto firearms be legal?

No.


I'm not very knowledgeable on this matter so can some of you provide your insights?

What possible rational basis could there be for denying the right to purchase, keep, and use any form of such weapons? While we are at it, let us ban sports cars. They go faster than any speed limit anywhere in the USA and pose a clear and present danger to "society". I mean, if we're going to employ proof by assertion, then we may as well go all the way and ban everything based on such non-logic.

[osan]

My private, personal security plan dictates that I will use any and all security tools at my disposal in order to live peaceably and productively.

As far as the need for "Machine Guns," in the hands of the BoR Article 2 Militia:

Ammunition is expensive, and depending upon the rifle, can be heavy to carry.

http://www.hchq.biz/mia_photos/mia_6.jpg


Oooo... looks like my National Match rifle. Nice.

I'd love to get my hands on a BAR.

[Danke]

bump

[steve005]

yes and we need to stop falling for it, stop posting pictures of guns, stop talking about what you have, etc etc

[Bman]

In case it hasn't been submitted. I should be allowed to have one of these.

http://www.collectiondx.com/gallery2/gallery/d/91698-1/M1+Abrams+tank+with+mine+plow_+in+forest+camo+_fro nt_.jpg

[phill4paul]

yes and we need to stop falling for it, stop posting pictures of guns, stop talking about what you have, etc etc

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Yamamoto

Why should we, you and I and every gun owner, cower, hide and tremble in the face of tyranny?

If you cower now you'll cower later. F*ck em. Wear them openly if your township allows it, If not change your township government!

I don't understand this defeatist principle of hiding what is your naturally given right, the right to defend yourself) in the face of government.

If anything more individuals should be out there. In groups, openly carrying, with video!

[Pericles]

In case it hasn't been submitted. I should be allowed to have one of these.

http://www.collectiondx.com/gallery2/gallery/d/91698-1/M1+Abrams+tank+with+mine+plow_+in+forest+camo+_fro nt_.jpg

You really want the M1A2, instead of that mine clearing M1A1. The ability of the commander to designate the next main gun target while the gunner is dealing with the current target is a quantum leap in capability - we bought it from the Germans, of course.

[Pericles]

data mining?


yes and we need to stop falling for it, stop posting pictures of guns, stop talking about what you have, etc etc

Who do you think will have the last laugh when they raid Starbucks looking for me.

Did you order whole milk with that latte?

You're coming with me.....:D

[osan]

yes and we need to stop falling for it, stop posting pictures of guns, stop talking about what you have, etc etc

I don't worry about it much. IF I talk about the pair of MG34s I have, how would anyone know whether I am telling the truth? ;)

[disorderlyvision]

- Should every type of firearm be available for sale and possession? YES

- Should we allow chain guns, heavy machine guns, and fully automatics to be available for sale and possession? YES

- Should only semi-auto firearms be legal? NO