Hannity weighs in on birth certificate issue

[lynnf]

interesting that he says MSM fails on the issue.....

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=118435


Sean Hannity: 'Where's the birth certificate?'
Talk-show star defends WND's pursuit of eligibility story

...

"What was so wrong in saying that, 'Can we see your birth certificate?' ... We were told early on that, in fact, somebody else had looked at it and confirmed that it was legitimate. So, I mean, what was wrong with people saying, 'Wait a minute. You know what? In light of the fact of where your, your father came from, et cetera, uh, let's just make sure that this is a legitimate birth certificate'? ... It was not asked by the mainstream media. It was asked by places like WorldNetDaily, who, I think, were just doing due diligence considering it's a constitutional mandate. ... I think a lot of people were just afraid to ask the question."


...


====================

lynn

[dealerjim]

Asking to prove the birth certificate was real would be racist, wouldn't it? Asking the president to prove anything or dissent in any way is racist with this administration. If you dispute anything this administration wants to do, you're a racist, right?

[Bruno]

I heard this yesterday as well. Its not the first time in recent weeks he has made similar comments.

[silverhandorder]

This is retarded. He can show his Hawaii certified certificate and be well within law. Even if he is not a citizen you are literally setting your self up for a huge fall. Hannity is a dumb douchebag giving a douchebag advice.

The way I see it that if you won't believe him over his "certified" certificate then you won't believe in w/e he shows to prove that he is natural born. In which case if you are a birther you are extremely dishonest.

[Matt Collins]

I think he had to wait for Palin to say it before he could. She gave him cover by coming out first on the issue it would seem.

[lynnf]

bump for the evening crowd


lynn

[Truth-Bringer]

The way I see it that if you won't believe him over his "certified" certificate then you won't believe in w/e he shows to prove that he is natural born. In which case if you are a birther you are extremely dishonest.

Not so, the short form "Certification of Live Birth" is not a birth certificate. I want to see the long form original birth certificate before I make up my mind.

You are the one being dishonest. You are committing a logical fallacy - an Appeal to Authority. You are saying that since authority figures in government have said this is true, then it is so because they said so. Government: "You don't need to see the evidence, we'll tell you what the evidence is and you believe us."

The only way to discern the truth of the whole matter is to see the evidence with our own eyes. Let's also see his college records, passport records, etc. If he ever declared himself as a citizen or national of another country at any point, then it wouldn't even matter if he was born in Hawaii. There are several other problems for Obama on the eligibility issue.

[talkingpointes]

Hannity, Palin and the birth certificate issue in just one thread... Really ? I would consume a pile of dog shit before I listen to anything Hannity is saying. He has proved himself in a very repetitive fashion to be a coward, liar, and a puppet. I know a broken clock can be right, but I still wouldn't check it for the time.

[Bruno]

Not so, the short form "Certification of Live Birth" is not a birth certificate. I want to see the long form original birth certificate before I make up my mind.

You are the one being dishonest. You are committing a logical fallacy - an Appeal to Authority. You are saying that since authority figures in government have said this is true, then it is so because they said so. Government: "You don't need to see the evidence, we'll tell you what the evidence is and you believe us."

The only way to discern the true of the whole matter is to see the evidence with our own eyes. Let's also see his college records, passport records, etc. If he ever declared himself as a citizen or national of another country at any point, then it wouldn't even matter if he was born in Hawaii. There are several other problems for Obama on the eligibility issue.

ding ding ding

[Eric Arthur Blair]

all this means is the fake cert is now ready. That Sarah Palestinian Genocider Palin got to announce it shows she is definitely the pick for 2012.

[Romulus]

all this means is the fake cert is now ready.

lol yes. and we should all be ashamed to ever question for ask such a thing, like proof or evidence of the truth.

[Athan]

Fuck hannity. Just thought you all should know. You know, for the record.

Again, for the record: Fuck hannity.

:D

[Bruno]

Fuck hannity. Just thought you all should know. You know, for the record.

Again, for the record: Fuck hannity.

:D

That goes without saying, but thank you anyway. ;)

[talkingpointes]

Has anyone seen my ball ?

[Truth-Bringer]

Fuck hannity. Just thought you all should know. You know, for the record.

Again, for the record: Fuck hannity.

:D

That's a given. He's basically a neocon piece of shit. A compromiser who would gladly cast a vote for Hitler over Stalin.

Occasionally though, some truth does slip out of his mouth.

[Eric Arthur Blair]

lol yes. and we should all be ashamed to ever question for ask such a thing, like proof or evidence of the truth.

Without a doubt Obama is not a US citizen, If anyone here allowed the controlled media to brainwash and intimidate you (with for example this ''birther'' crap) into thinking you were in any way wrong to demand evidence than seriously grow up and grow a pair of balls.

[talkingpointes]

Without a doubt Obama is not a US citizen, If anyone here allowed the controlled media to brainwash and intimidate you (with for example this ''birther'' crap) into thinking you were in any way wrong to demand evidence than seriously grow up and grow a pair of balls.

I suppose you have the testicular fortitude then to do something about the issue ?

There is nothing wrong with demanding evidence... Choose your battles wisely.

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I suppose you have the testicular fortitude then to do something about the issue ?

There is nothing wrong with demanding evidence... Choose your battles wisely.

The issue is dead for now and people outside the system can't do anything about it. Whenever there is anything to do with war or Israel the birth cert issue will pop up, just to keep Obama on his toes. The people exposing the birth cert issue and those covering it up are both on the same side. Blackmail is a powerful weapon.

[Matt Collins]

That's a given. He's basically a neocon piece of shit. A compromiser who would gladly cast a vote for Hitler over Stalin.

Occasionally though, some truth does slip out of his mouth.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day? :rolleyes:

[squarepusher]

all this means is the fake cert is now ready. That Sarah Palestinian Genocider Palin got to announce it shows she is definitely the pick for 2012.


:)

[Romulus]

fuck hannity. thats all

[steph3n]

Hannity IS PART of the mainstream media, his inability to see his is incredibly.....I don't even have words for it.

[silverhandorder]

Not so, the short form "Certification of Live Birth" is not a birth certificate. I want to see the long form original birth certificate before I make up my mind.

You are the one being dishonest. You are committing a logical fallacy - an Appeal to Authority. You are saying that since authority figures in government have said this is true, then it is so because they said so. Government: "You don't need to see the evidence, we'll tell you what the evidence is and you believe us."

The only way to discern the truth of the whole matter is to see the evidence with our own eyes. Let's also see his college records, passport records, etc. If he ever declared himself as a citizen or national of another country at any point, then it wouldn't even matter if he was born in Hawaii. There are several other problems for Obama on the eligibility issue.

I am not saying I believe him either. However as I pointed out he is within his legal right to tell you to fuck off. This means you need to change the law first before you can even hope to gain any traction in this issue.

[pacelli]

Not so, the short form "Certification of Live Birth" is not a birth certificate. I want to see the long form original birth certificate before I make up my mind.

You are the one being dishonest. You are committing a logical fallacy - an Appeal to Authority. You are saying that since authority figures in government have said this is true, then it is so because they said so. Government: "You don't need to see the evidence, we'll tell you what the evidence is and you believe us."

The only way to discern the truth of the whole matter is to see the evidence with our own eyes. Let's also see his college records, passport records, etc. If he ever declared himself as a citizen or national of another country at any point, then it wouldn't even matter if he was born in Hawaii. There are several other problems for Obama on the eligibility issue.

Could you please post a sample version of a long form original birth certificate?

Also, is Ron Paul a citizen of the United States?

[lynnf]

Could you please post a sample version of a long form original birth certificate?

Also, is Ron Paul a citizen of the United States?


try this sample ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Weird.gif


on Ron Paul:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul

Personal life

Paul was born in Pittsburgh to Howard and Margaret (née Dumont) Paul.[3] As a junior at Dormont High School, he was the 220-yard dash state champion.[4] He received a B.Sc. degree in biology at Gettysburg College in 1957. He was a member of Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity.[4] After obtaining a M.D. degree from the Duke University School of Medicine, he was a U.S. Air Force flight surgeon during the 1960s.

Paul has been married to Carol Wells since 1957.[5] They have five children, who were baptized Episcopalian:[6] Ronald, Lori, Rand, Robert, and Joy. They also have eighteen grandchildren and three great-grandchildren.[7] He has four brothers. Two of them, including David Paul, are ministers. Wayne Paul is a Certified Public Accountant.

[Zippyjuan]

Can you prove Ron Paul was actually born there? Have you seen his long form birth certificate?

Obama could provide the long form and it would not change anybody's mind who is convinced he was not born in Hawaii so it is pointless to do so. Doubters would claim the new document was a fake.

[Dianne]

I don't even believe this. I might gain a little respect for Hannity if he pursues this. I want to see Obama's birth certificate since I believe he is just a UN shill sent here to rape and pillage.

There is no reason in this world that a Presidential candidate should not provide proper credentials. Have you gone to get a driver's license lately? You have to show a certified copy of your birth certificate, a power bill or something to verify address.

The POTUS does not? WTF????? I want to see docs.....

[Dianne]

'Can we see your birth certificate?' ... We were told early on that, in fact, somebody else had looked at it and confirmed that it was legitimate.

Oh and I forgot to mention this comment bothers me a lot, in that authorities in Hawai actually said they don't have birth certificates anymore.. they have news paper clippings of birth announcements. In order to cover up for Obama, the authorities said there are no bcs, just announcements, so who the hell above said they saw a bc? Why would Obama have one, when no one else in Hawaii does?

This reminds me of George Bush's military record disappearing in the middle of the night. The microphish (hmmmm spell check on that) disappeared right when the senate was investigating it... An error when it caught on fire or something. As interesting as Obama's birth certificate, lol.

Lies... lies... lies.

[steph3n]

I don't even believe this. I might gain a little respect for Hannity if he pursues this. I want to see Obama's birth certificate since I believe he is just a UN shill sent here to rape and pillage.

There is no reason in this world that a Presidential candidate should not provide proper credentials. Have you gone to get a driver's license lately? You have to show a certified copy of your birth certificate, a power bill or something to verify address.

The POTUS does not? WTF????? I want to see docs.....

Did you see Bush's ot Clintons? no, of course not, anyone who'd put their BC online is a freaking idiot. you be the first to put yours online now won't you?

[pacelli]

I'm sorry but that is a Certificate of Live Birth. It isn't a long form birth certificate.

Also, Wikipedia doesn't show a copy of Ron Paul's long form birth certificate.



try this sample ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Weird.gif


on Ron Paul:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul

Personal life

Paul was born in Pittsburgh to Howard and Margaret (née Dumont) Paul.[3] As a junior at Dormont High School, he was the 220-yard dash state champion.[4] He received a B.Sc. degree in biology at Gettysburg College in 1957. He was a member of Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity.[4] After obtaining a M.D. degree from the Duke University School of Medicine, he was a U.S. Air Force flight surgeon during the 1960s.

Paul has been married to Carol Wells since 1957.[5] They have five children, who were baptized Episcopalian:[6] Ronald, Lori, Rand, Robert, and Joy. They also have eighteen grandchildren and three great-grandchildren.[7] He has four brothers. Two of them, including David Paul, are ministers. Wayne Paul is a Certified Public Accountant.

[Bruno]

Did you see Bush's ot Clintons? no, of course not, anyone who'd put their BC online is a freaking idiot. you be the first to put yours online now won't you?

It was never in question that they were born in the U.S. This was our first presidential candidate where there was legitimate reason(s) for requesting proof.

[jmdrake]

Did you see Bush's ot Clintons? no, of course not, anyone who'd put their BC online is a freaking idiot. you be the first to put yours online now won't you?

Of for crying out loud! I don't know what's more pathetic. Trying to make the "birther" issue front and center, or the attempts to debunk it which show a total lack of knowledge of the constitution. Do you have probable cause to suspect Bush, Clinton or Paul were not citizens? No? Then quit trying to act like their situation is equivalent to Obama's! Go back and read the 4th amendment. And no this isn't about "race" either. Nobody asked Jesse Jackson about his birth certificate because nobody had probable cause to think that he might not be a citizen.

Even the Wall Street Journal article written to debunk the birther issue admitted that Obama is in a special case that is even different from McCain!

In fact, although some people born outside the U.S. are natural-born citizens (including John McCain, born in Panama, where his father was stationed as a naval officer), the timing and circumstances of Obama’s birth make the place a necessary condition for natural-born citizenship. The State Department Web site explains the law that would have applied if Obama were born overseas:

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

Obama was born before 1986 to married parents, and his father was an alien. Thus if it were an overseas birth, his mother would have to have lived in the U.S. for 5 years after age 14 in order for her child to be a natural-born American. Mrs. Obama was only 18 when Barack was born, so she had not even lived 5 years after age 14.


Bush, McCain, Jackson, Paul, Bill and Hillary Clinton were all born to two U.S. parents. So even if they were born outside the U.S. IT WOULD NOT MATTER! Attack the birth movement all you want. But please stay away from the politically correct "if one has to show his certificate they all do" nonsense. Again the standard for any government intrusion into your privacy is PROBABLE CAUSE!

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Truth-Bringer]

Have you guys traveled outside the United States? Do you know how long they process to give you a passport or visa? We would've known by know if he was not born in Hawaii, it's quite pathetic actually to think he wasn't.

Again, there are other issues that could destroy Obama's eligibility. I actually think he probably was born in Hawaii. But....he also lived overseas. So did he ever travel under the passport of another country? Did he ever declare himself to be a foreigner? Did he declare himself as a U.S. citizen when he applied to college? We don't know because he won't release any of his passport or college records. The only school record we have from Indonesia shows his nationality listed as "Indonesian."

Also, there is the issue with his father as a British national under the law at that time - also making Obama a British national, therefore giving him what the Founders referred to as a dual allegiance.

[Truth-Bringer]

Can you prove Ron Paul was actually born there? Have you seen his long form birth certificate?

Does anyone have probable cause to believe that Ron Paul is not a U.S. citizen? No.



Obama could provide the long form and it would not change anybody's mind who is convinced he was not born in Hawaii so it is pointless to do so. Doubters would claim the new document was a fake.

Again, the birth certificate isn't the only issue. Let's also see his passport records and college registration records. If he has nothing to hide, none of this should be a problem.

[Truth-Bringer]

I am not saying I believe him either. However as I pointed out he is within his legal right to tell you to fuck off. This means you need to change the law first before you can even hope to gain any traction in this issue.

No, it's actually not within his legal right. The people are supposed to be the sovereigns on our system, not the government. He is my servant, and he is required to meet any and all standards of proof that the people request in order to prove his legal eligibility.

[silverhandorder]

No, it's actually not within his legal right. The people are supposed to be the sovereigns on our system, not the government. He is my servant, and he is required to meet any and all standards of proof that the people request in order to prove his legal eligibility.

Then I suggest you first change the law that allows him to avoid showing what you want. Or claim your sovereignty and get shot by state thugs. I think more rational people would go for the first option.

[jmdrake]

Then I suggest you first change the law that allows him to avoid showing what you want. Or claim your sovereignty and get shot by state thugs. I think more rational people would go for the first option.

*sigh* There is no law that allows Obama to avoid showing his birth certificate. The constitution requires that Obama be a natural born citizen. There is clearly enough probable cause for any judge worth his/her salt to issue and order demanding he produce it. But do judges in this country always follow clear constitutional mandates? The answer to that is, of course, no. It's a dead issue from a practical matter, but in a strictly legal sense the birthers are right. And I'm not a birther.

[silverhandorder]

*sigh* There is no law that allows Obama to avoid showing his birth certificate. The constitution requires that Obama be a natural born citizen. There is clearly enough probable cause for any judge worth his/her salt to issue and order demanding he produce it. But do judges in this country always follow clear constitutional mandates? The answer to that is, of course, no. It's a dead issue from a practical matter, but in a strictly legal sense the birthers are right. And I'm not a birther.

Yes and the law accepts the certificate he already shown to everyone. So again change that law. It is fully compatible with the constitution. If you disagree on what constitutes proof then clarify the law.

[Truth-Bringer]

Then I suggest you first change the law that allows him to avoid showing what you want.

It certainly needs to be, if that is indeed the law, because it is completely and totally irrational. Why create a system that requires eligibility proof only to give someone the option not to produce and present it? Makes absolutely no sense at all.


Or claim your sovereignty and get shot by state thugs.

Or be a pathetic little coward and hide under your bed while telling other people they're going to get shot if they dare to show courage. I guess that's your choice.

But the people are indeed sovereign:

Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356 (1886): “Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to law, for it is the author and source of law…While sovereign powers are delegated to…the government, sovereignty itself remains with the people.”

“One sovereign does not need to tell another sovereign that he/she is sovereign. The sovereign is merely sovereign by his very existence.” The People are sovereign, not the governmental bodies that serve them. Kemper v. State, 138 Southwest 1025 (1911), page 1043, section 33.

Juilliard v. Greenman, 110 U.S. 421 (1884): “There is no such thing as a power of inherent sovereignty in the government of the United States…In this country sovereignty resides in the people, and Congress can exercise no power which they have not, by their Constitution entrusted to it. All else is withheld.”

Perry v. U.S., 294 U.S. 330 (1935): “In the United States, sovereignty resides in the people…the Congress cannot invoke sovereign power of the People to override their will as thus declared.”

[Truth-Bringer]

Yes and the law accepts the certificate he already shown to everyone. So again change that law. It is fully compatible with the constitution. If you disagree on what constitutes proof then clarify the law.

Actually it is black letter law that if the authenticity of a copy is challenged, then the original must be presented. That is a legal tradition that is centuries old. They've tried to water it down in recent years, but the legal foundation is sound.

[jmdrake]

Yes and the law accepts the certificate he already shown to everyone. So again change that law. It is fully compatible with the constitution. If you disagree on what constitutes proof then clarify the law.

Please give the citation of the federal law that says the certificate he has already shown is sufficient. I doubt you can, but surprise me. I think you're confusing real law with "color of law".

[silverhandorder]

It certainly needs to be, if that is indeed the law, because it is completely and totally irrational. Why create a system that requires eligibility proof only to give someone the option not to produce and present it? Makes absolutely no sense at all.
I agree the law needs to basically have all of politician's requirements to be proven before one runs for office. Even if it is redundant.



Or be a pathetic little coward and hide under your bed while telling other people they're going to get shot if they dare to show courage. I guess that's your choice.

But the people are indeed sovereign:

Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356 (1886): “Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to law, for it is the author and source of law…While sovereign powers are delegated to…the government, sovereignty itself remains with the people.”

“One sovereign does not need to tell another sovereign that he/she is sovereign. The sovereign is merely sovereign by his very existence.” The People are sovereign, not the governmental bodies that serve them. Kemper v. State, 138 Southwest 1025 (1911), page 1043, section 33.

Juilliard v. Greenman, 110 U.S. 421 (1884): “There is no such thing as a power of inherent sovereignty in the government of the United States…In this country sovereignty resides in the people, and Congress can exercise no power which they have not, by their Constitution entrusted to it. All else is withheld.”

Perry v. U.S., 294 U.S. 330 (1935): “In the United States, sovereignty resides in the people…the Congress cannot invoke sovereign power of the People to override their will as thus declared.”

I am not a coward I just understand the mechanics of the system. It makes no sense to fight back unless you have a fighting chance to win. For that chance you need a good number of people to back you up. So why go through uncertainty and great trouble when a perfectly sensible solution is being offered. It is a lot easier to get people to join you in peaceful protest then in armed resistance. Last I checked the government has not been pushing avg joes buttons.


Actually it is black letter law that if the authenticity of a copy is challenged, then the original must be presented. That is a legal tradition that is centuries old. They've tried to water it down in recent years, but the legal foundation is sound.

Well I did not know that. In any case gl with your campaign.

[silverhandorder]

Please give the citation of the federal law that says the certificate he has already shown is sufficient. I doubt you can, but surprise me. I think you're confusing real law with "color of law".

Is it something like the current situation with the constitution? Where majority could care less. While we who support founding father's ideals are forced to either try to convince the majority or rebel? If that is the case then I suggest you pick "restoring the constitution" as your standard bearer and not birth issues. Otherwise it makes you look dishonest. Even if it yields you more recruits it simply distracts from what you really need to do.

[jmdrake]

Is it something like the current situation with the constitution? Where majority could care less. While we who support founding father's ideals are forced to either try to convince the majority or rebel? If that is the case then I suggest you pick "restoring the constitution" as your standard bearer and not birth issues. Otherwise it makes you look dishonest. Even if it yields you more recruits it simply distracts from what you really need to do.

It's not "my issue". Did you miss where I said I'm not a birther? I'm simply pointing out that from a legal position the birthers are right. The constitution does require a president to be a natural born citizen, there is probable cause to question whether Obama is a natural born citizen so it is constitutional to demand that Obama produce his original birth certificate. But the only person that can actually make that demand is a judge, and so far none have actually done so. If you want to argue that this issue is a waste of time for everybody except the lawyers who are actually bringing the case forward, I agree with you. If, on the other hand, you want to argue that the law allows Obama not to produce his real birth certificate or the case that others have made that "If Obama has to produce his than everyone else has to also", then I'm going to point out that legally that's not correct. Just because I disagree with some of the lame arguments being made against the birthers doesn't mean I support their cause or think it should be a focus of the freedom movement.

[silverhandorder]

I don't know the law well. If it is as you say it is then yes they can demand for it. But as I said in the post you quoted it might again end up with both sides fundamentally disagreeing on what the law means.

[Truth-Bringer]

I agree the law needs to basically have all of politician's requirements to be proven before one runs for office. Even if it is redundant.

Then why are you asserting that a copy of a Certification of Live Birth is proof of eligibility, when the candidate in question has only one American parent, a history of living abroad, and a whole host of sealed records that would shed light on the eligibility question?




I am not a coward

I disagree.


I just understand the mechanics of the system. It makes no sense to fight back unless you have a fighting chance to win.

Well then according to you pretty much every revolution in history shouldn't have been fought. You would have been telling the Founding Fathers: "Just settle down, guys. We're a minority in this fight. We're going up against the greatest army in the world. We don't have a chance to win this thing. We just need to keep things the way they are."


For that chance you need a good number of people to back you up. So why go through uncertainty and great trouble when a perfectly sensible solution is being offered.

What is that solution? Continue to allow the government to Appeal to Authority and say "We'll tell you what the evidence is - you don't need to look at it yourself. Just trust us." Sorry, but I'm not buying it.




Well I did not know that. In any case gl with your campaign.

You mean good luck with having black letter law upheld by a corrupt, self-serving court system. I agree. This government is corrupt, and that's why our political masters don't have to obey the very laws they pass. The people are asleep at the wheel, and the politicians are taking full advantage of that.

[silverhandorder]

Then why are you asserting that a copy of a Certification of Live Birth is proof of eligibility, when the candidate in question has only one American parent, a history of living abroad, and a whole host of sealed records that would shed light on the eligibility question?
That is only assuming you are right and that no one is going to challenge your interpretation. You are fundamentalist admit it. You won't listen to the other side. I am not against what you want I just think that clarifying the law is far more honest but not as fun.




Well then according to you pretty much every revolution in history shouldn't have been fought. You would have been telling the Founding Fathers: "Just settle down, guys. We're a minority in this fight. We're going up against the greatest army in the world. We don't have a chance to win this thing. We just need to keep things the way they are."

Founding fathers tried everything they could before rebelling. Plus the times do change. Ideals might not change but perception today is far different then it was before. If you are just going to ignore all that and not listen to opposition then you are no better then a socialist/neo-con/evangelical that refuses to listen to the other side.




What is that solution? Continue to allow the government to Appeal to Authority and say "We'll tell you what the evidence is - you don't need to look at it yourself. Just trust us." Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

No my solution is to educate people and vote out the politicians. Once we get the government down to minarchist size then I will advocate for eliminating it all together. I don't see this as a no win battle. No one has attempted to do this with any degree of serious success. You and me are ordinary people, we can't devote our entire life to policing the government. Until we create organization that will allow us to both enjoy our life and continuously check on the government we will have this monstrosity. I think the internet age will finally give us such a system.



You mean good luck with having black letter law upheld by a corrupt, self-serving court system. I agree. This government is corrupt, and that's why our political masters don't have to obey the very laws they pass. The people are asleep at the wheel, and the politicians are taking full advantage of that.
I have my problem with the courts too. I was sincere in me wishing you luck.

[Truth-Bringer]

That is only assuming you are right and that no one is going to challenge your interpretation. You are fundamentalist admit it. You won't listen to the other side. I am not against what you want I just think that clarifying the law is far more honest but not as fun.

The law must represent logic and reason. Are you honestly going to argue against that?

The government's position is a logical fallacy, an Appeal to Authority. Again, they are stating "Based on our Authority, we are telling you what the evidence is. You don't need to see the evidence, just believe us."

So, I don't have an "interpretation." I have a rock solid, irrefutable argument, and you can't admit it, either because you're stubborn or you don't want to admit you've been wrong this entire time.




Founding fathers tried everything they could before rebelling. Plus the times do change.

Indeed, and so have we.


Ideals might not change but perception today is far different then it was before. If you are just going to ignore all that and not listen to opposition then you are no better then a socialist/neo-con/evangelical that refuses to listen to the other side.

I've listened to the opposition for years. We all have. Where has that gotten this country? We continue to go further into debt, the government continues to grow larger, our foreign military commitments continue to increase, and our currency continues to be devalued.

I'm sorry, but do we really need to seriously consider a strategy of "Let's wait some more" :rolleyes:




No my solution is to educate people and vote out the politicians. Once we get the government down to minarchist size then I will advocate for eliminating it all together.

There's your flaw - you're basing your entire strategy on voting. The Founding Fathers did not do this. They organized into assemblies. This is occurring again, for the first time since the American revolution. (http://www.oursammie.net)

We don't need to vote in politicians to give us permission to reform the government. We can peacefully organize into assemblies and exercise all of the powers of government in so doing. If the government resists with force, then it is they who are acting unlawfully and aggressively.

You need to study your history more. (http://www.strike-the-root.com/51/hargis/hargis1.html)

But I do agree with you on continuing education. However, we don't need a majority of the population to restore a Constitutional Republican form of government.





I have my problem with the courts too. I was sincere in me wishing you luck.

Ok, well then I apologize for thinking you were just trying to be a smart ass.

[angelatc]

Fuck hannity. Just thought you all should know. You know, for the record.

Again, for the record: Fuck hannity.

:D

Agreed! Ask him "What's so wrong about investigating why nobody in our government was fired or disciplined after 9/11?" and see how nasty he'll get.

[jmdrake]

Agreed! Ask him "What's so wrong about investigating why nobody in our government was fired or disciplined after 9/11?" and see how nasty he'll get.

You mean you aren't supposed to get a medal for presiding over what was at best the greatest intelligence failure in u.S. history?

http://www.dealbreaker.com/images/entries/GeorgeTenetMedal.jpg

[BlackTerrel]

Hannity is an idiot... always has been.


In light of the fact of where your, your father came from, et cetera, uh, let's just make sure that this is a legitimate birth certificate'?

So if your father was born in another country you have to show your birth certificate to prove you are American. Nice logic Hannity. Also great use of "uh"... I love seeing that in print. It adds so much to the quote.

[BlackTerrel]

Asking to prove the birth certificate was real would be racist, wouldn't it? Asking the president to prove anything or dissent in any way is racist with this administration. If you dispute anything this administration wants to do, you're a racist, right?

It is a bit odd that this has even come up isn't it? Your dad is from Africa therefore we think you were born in Africa? Why Obama but no questions of Bush, or Clinton, or McCain, or Palin?

If you can show me any "evidence" at all that Obama wasn't born in the US I'll take it back. But right now it seems like "he's black, his dad is from Africa, let's say he's from Africa".

[BlackTerrel]

all this means is the fake cert is now ready. That Sarah Palestinian Genocider Palin got to announce it shows she is definitely the pick for 2012.

It only took them two years to make a fake birth certificate.

[BlackTerrel]

It was never in question that they were born in the U.S. This was our first presidential candidate where there was legitimate reason(s) for requesting proof.

What are the legitimate reasons?

[jmdrake]

It is a bit odd that this has even come up isn't it? Your dad is from Africa therefore we think you were born in Africa? Why Obama but no questions of Bush, or Clinton, or McCain, or Palin?

If you can show me any "evidence" at all that Obama wasn't born in the US I'll take it back. But right now it seems like "he's black, his dad is from Africa, let's say he's from Africa".

I don't know how many times I'll have to post this until people get it. Even the Wall Street Journal article "debunking" the birthers acknowledges that there is a WORLD of difference between someone who has two U.S. citizens for parents and someone who does NOT!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203609204574316472642745120.html

If McCain was born on the moon he'd still be a natural born U.S. citizen because both of his parents were citizens. Obama is only a citizen if he was born in Hawaii. Get it?

And once again I think this is a waste of time. If we can't get the courts to uphold the constitution on a host of other issues, why would they be any different on this one?

[Bruno]

What are the legitimate reasons?

Read post #34 for starters.

This is not a "Omg! He's black! We have to prove he was born in Africa and therefore ineligible to be president!" issue.

Give me a break.

[Truth-Bringer]

What are the legitimate reasons?

Only one of his parents was a U.S. citizen.

The age of his American parent was a question, as that plays into the legal requirements.

He lived abroad for a few years and the only school record we have shows his nationality listed as "Indonesian."

His non-U.S. citizen parent was a British subject at the time of Obama's birth. Under their laws, that would make Obama a British subject also. So there are legitimate questions regarding dual nationality.

We know he traveled abroad by his own admission but he refuses to release his passport records. Did he use a U.S. passport, or the passport of another country?

He refuses to release his college records. Did he ever declare himself a foreign citizen to receive benefits? We don't know without the records.

[Bruno]

It is a bit odd that this has even come up isn't it? Your dad is from Africa therefore we think you were born in Africa? Why Obama but no questions of Bush, or Clinton, or McCain, or Palin?

If you can show me any "evidence" at all that Obama wasn't born in the US I'll take it back. But right now it seems like "he's black, his dad is from Africa, let's say he's from Africa".

there were plenty off people saying McCain may be ineligible, and discussions where made right here on this forum.

Additionally, it was OBAMA who supported a bill to state that McCain was a U.S. born citizen. Perhaps to help his own cause?

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/02/29/obama_backs_law_to_ensure_mcca.html
Sen. Barack Obama's campaign announced he would co-sponsor legislation introduced yesterday by his political ally Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) to ensure that John McCain can become president, even though he was born in the Panama Canal Zone.

The issue of McCain's eligibility was raised in a New York Times article noting the constitutional requirement that a U.S. president be a "natural-born citizen" had never been fully defined.

The McCaskill bill, submitted immediately after she scrawled it onto a notepad on the Senate floor in response to the Times story, would establish the eligibility of anyone born to a U.S. citizen who is serving overseas as an active or reserve member of the U.S. armed forces. The Arizona senator's father was a Navy officer serving in the Canal Zone when McCain was born there in 1936.

"Senator McCain has earned the right to be his party's nominee, and no loophole should prevent him from competing in this campaign," Obama said.



McCain's camp even investigated his own qualifications based on where he was born.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3460276.ece

John McCain’s nomination as the Republican candidate may be an electoral near-certainty, but his campaign is investigating whether the senator’s birth in the Panama Canal Zone may disqualify him from the presidency.

Mr McCain was born in 1936 while his father was stationed at a US military base and the Canal Zone was under American control. Although the question was examined during his first presidential bid in 2000, it has been revived as the senator heads towards the nomination.

The issue has also revived a centuries-old debate about the exact meaning of a constitutional clause laid down by the founding fathers in 1787, which declares that only a “natural-born citizen” can occupy the Oval Office.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10006
Five days before The Denver Democratic Convention, a law suit was filed in a Pennsylvania federal court, accusing Barack Obama of lying regarding his citizenship. The legal filing pertaining to Obama's birth certificate was launched by Philip J. Berg, a close associate of Hillary Clinton.

[BlackTerrel]

I don't know how many times I'll have to post this until people get it. Even the Wall Street Journal article "debunking" the birthers acknowledges that there is a WORLD of difference between someone who has two U.S. citizens for parents and someone who does NOT!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203609204574316472642745120.html

If McCain was born on the moon he'd still be a natural born U.S. citizen because both of his parents were citizens. Obama is only a citizen if he was born in Hawaii. Get it?

And once again I think this is a waste of time. If we can't get the courts to uphold the constitution on a host of other issues, why would they be any different on this one?

So if one of your parents is not a US citizen you have to post your birth certificate online? But if both your parents were Americans (Bush, McCain, Palin, Ron Paul, Clinton) you don't have to provide documentation?

I can't believe libertarians would go for this nonsense. Obama is not required to abide by a different set of rules just because his dad was born overseas.

And it's pointless anyway, the "birthers" will believe what they want regardless. Anything he shows they will say is fake.

[Bruno]

So if one of your parents is not a US citizen you have to post your birth certificate online? But if both your parents were Americans (Bush, McCain, Palin, Ron Paul, Clinton) you don't have to provide documentation?

I can't believe libertarians would go for this nonsense. Obama is not required to abide by a different set of rules just because his dad was born overseas.

And it's pointless anyway, the "birthers" will believe what they want regardless. Anything he shows they will say is fake.


Except perhaps a certificate of live birth, his past travel visa, his passport, etc. all which has been withheld. (transparency much?)

Documentation shoudl be required either way. See previous post about McCain's eligibility. And do you really think that RP wouldn't show his if asked?

[jmdrake]

So if one of your parents is not a US citizen you have to post your birth certificate online? But if both your parents were Americans (Bush, McCain, Palin, Ron Paul, Clinton) you don't have to provide documentation?

I can't believe libertarians would go for this nonsense. Obama is not required to abide by a different set of rules just because his dad was born overseas.


Well I guess it's a good think that I'm a constitutionalist like Ron Paul and not a libertarian. :rolleyes: If you're going to take that "logic" then why should their be a different set of rules for someone who has both parents born overseas? Why can't Arnold Swartzenegar be president? I could give you a long drawn out answer behind the rational for the natural born citizenship requirement, but the short answer is because the freaking constitution says so. Being president isn't some "right". It's a privilege. And as a constitutional republic we have restricted that privilege to natural born citizens. And right now the definition of natural born citizen precludes someone who was born outside the U.S. and only has one U.S. parent from being president.



And it's pointless anyway, the "birthers" will believe what they want regardless. Anything he shows they will say is fake.

The "point" is do any judges exist that actually follow the constitution and the law as written. Someone willing to ignore the law because their interpretation of "libertarian ideals" means that the constitution is somehow "unfair" to foreigners might not follow the law. And quit using the "online" red herring. This would no more need to be posted online than a picture of Monica Lewinski's dress. There is a genuine question of fact as to where Obama was born. If he was born outside this U.S. his being sworn in as president violates current U.S. law. An honest judge would allow a discovery request that demanded Obama's original birth certificate be handed over to the court for examination. The keyword here is "honest". Would some people still not be convinces? Sure. But at least at that point the legal process would have been followed. Right now it has not been. This argument that it's somehow "unfair" to subject Obama to the constitution is ridiculous.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[RyanRSheets]

So if one of your parents is not a US citizen you have to post your birth certificate online? But if both your parents were Americans (Bush, McCain, Palin, Ron Paul, Clinton) you don't have to provide documentation?

I can't believe libertarians would go for this nonsense. Obama is not required to abide by a different set of rules just because his dad was born overseas.

And it's pointless anyway, the "birthers" will believe what they want regardless. Anything he shows they will say is fake.

There was absolutely a birth certificate push with McCain, but it turned out to be an illegitimate claim. If we had reason to believe Ron Paul was not born here, I would pursue it.

[jmdrake]

Except perhaps a certificate of live birth, his past travel visa, his passport, etc. all which has been withheld. (transparency much?)

Documentation shoudl be required either way. See previous post about McCain's eligibility. And do you really think that RP wouldn't show his if asked?

The point is that there is no reason to ask Ron Paul because there is no probable cause that he might not be a U.S. citizen. Nobody asked for Jesse Jackson's birth certificate either.

[Bruno]

The point is that there is no reason to ask Ron Paul because there is no probable cause that he might not be a U.S. citizen. Nobody asked for Jesse Jackson's birth certificate either.

Or Shirley Chisholm's
Or Lenora Fulani's
Or Alan Keyes'
Or Al Sharpton's

[BlackTerrel]

Except perhaps a certificate of live birth, his past travel visa, his passport, etc. all which has been withheld. (transparency much?)

Documentation shoudl be required either way. See previous post about McCain's eligibility. And do you really think that RP wouldn't show his if asked?

Show to who? I wouldn't post my birth certificate or passport online. Would you?

[Bruno]

Show to who? I wouldn't post my birth certificate or passport online. Would you?

So far it has been shown to no one, so online is not even an issue and I never said he had to post it online.

Are you actually trying to make a case that that is his justification for not sharing it?

Do you think someone would actually get away with stealing Barack Obama's identity?? :p

[BlackTerrel]

The "point" is do any judges exist that actually follow the constitution and the law as written. Someone willing to ignore the law because their interpretation of "libertarian ideals" means that the constitution is somehow "unfair" to foreigners might not follow the law. And quit using the "online" red herring. This would no more need to be posted online than a picture of Monica Lewinski's dress. There is a genuine question of fact as to where Obama was born. If he was born outside this U.S. his being sworn in as president violates current U.S. law. An honest judge would allow a discovery request that demanded Obama's original birth certificate be handed over to the court for examination. The keyword here is "honest". Would some people still not be convinces? Sure. But at least at that point the legal process would have been followed. Right now it has not been. This argument that it's somehow "unfair" to subject Obama to the constitution is ridiculous.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Are you telling me that McCain, Bush, Obama never had to show ID to anyone. According to what I have read the paperwork has been reviewed? He did of course make this certificate of live birth available but that is not good enough apparently?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/12/11012/6168/320/534616

Why is that not enough? Does he have to keep satisfying the demands of 14% of the population who wouldn't be satisfied if Jesus himself returned to earth and proclaimed it to be true?

Look some people just have a vendetta. 14% of people think Obama was born in Kenya. Probably about a similar number think Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans. Should Bush start providing proof that he didn't do it? Or at a certain point do you have a right to tell people to fuck off.

I wouldn't provide ID unless I had to - but that's just me.

[Bruno]

Are you telling me that McCain, Bush, Obama never had to show ID to anyone. According to what I have read the paperwork has been reviewed? He did of course make this certificate of live birth available but that is not good enough apparently?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/12/11012/6168/320/534616

Why is that not enough? Does he have to keep satisfying the demands of 14% of the population who wouldn't be satisfied if Jesus himself returned to earth and proclaimed it to be true?

Look some people just have a vendetta. 14% of people think Obama was born in Kenya. Probably about a similar number think Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans. Should Bush start providing proof that he didn't do it? Or at a certain point do you have a right to tell people to fuck off.

I wouldn't provide ID unless I had to - but that's just me.

Where's the original? Commentor has a good point:

They couldn't even bother to use Helvetica? But yes, all the font tells us is that A) this copy was created post-1982, and B) Hawaii's Dept of Health has bad taste in fonts.

And no, I don't think Obama has gotten to the point of telling people to F'off. Instead, he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay out of court so he doesn't have to prove his U.S. citizenship.

And I'm sure this was just an advanced smear campaign, too. From 2004:

Sunday, June 27, 2004





Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.






http://sentinelradio.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/article-from-2004-says-kenyan-born-barack-obama-running-for-us-senate/

[jmdrake]

Are you telling me that McCain, Bush, Obama never had to show ID to anyone. According to what I have read the paperwork has been reviewed? He did of course make this certificate of live birth available but that is not good enough apparently?


I'm saying that there is no legitimate legal reason to ask McCain for his birth certificate. There is a legitimate legal reason to ask Obama for his. And that "certificate of live birth" is not a birth certificate.



Why is that not enough? Does he have to keep satisfying the demands of 14% of the population who wouldn't be satisfied if Jesus himself returned to earth and proclaimed it to be true?


It's the demands of the constitution that matter.



Look some people just have a vendetta. 14% of people think Obama was born in Kenya. Probably about a similar number think Bush blew up the levees in New Orleans. Should Bush start providing proof that he didn't do it? Or at a certain point do you have a right to tell people to fuck off.


If there was enough evidence that Bush blew up the levies to warrant a discovery hearing then yes. Dick Cheney should have to turn over information from his "energy task force" too. But you won't see that happening either.

And if you recall Bill Clinton told people to "fuck off" about his affair with Lewinski, and it almost got him impeached. I'm in law school. Most of my classmates are liberal. In constitutional class even the most die hard liberals were forced to admit that Clinton committed an impeachable offense. You're looking at this from some gut emotional level. I'm looking at it from a legal level. If the constitution was being followed a judge would clearly find probable cause to demand that
Obama turn over the original form birth certificate. That's the way "discovery" works. You aren't allowed to just turn over the information that fits your side of the argument. You are supposed to turn over everything. And again this all comes down to probable cause.



I wouldn't provide ID unless I had to - but that's just me.

So what? If you don't want to be scrutinized then don't run for president. Running for president isn't a right, it's a privilege. You want to ask "why should he have to turn it over". Why don't you ask yourself the question "why doesn't he go ahead and turn it over"? Sure there are a subset of people who wouldn't believe him either way but there is a larger group of people such as myself that don't necessarily believe he was foreign born but who are growing more suspicious everyday simply because of the obfuscation. So what would he have to lose?

[RyanRSheets]

Do you think someone would actually get away with stealing Barack Obama's identity?? :p

Seriously. The President's social security number ought to be public knowledge. There's no reason for it not to be. How is the freaking President going to even need such a thing ever again?

[Truth-Bringer]

So if one of your parents is not a US citizen you have to post your birth certificate online? But if both your parents were Americans (Bush, McCain, Palin, Ron Paul, Clinton) you don't have to provide documentation?

I can't believe libertarians would go for this nonsense. Obama is not required to abide by a different set of rules just because his dad was born overseas.

And it's pointless anyway, the "birthers" will believe what they want regardless. Anything he shows they will say is fake.

You're really sounding like a statist apologist here, my friend.

First of all, Barack Obama is not applying for a position at Denny's. He's applying for a job as President of the United States of America - and there are Constitutional/legal standards for eligibility that must be met.

Legally, any citizen can question the authenticity of anything he presents as evidence. The burden of proof is on him. He's just a servant. And copies can be questioned. If he wants to end the legal questions, he can produce and present the original long form birth certificate.

Yes, someone may challenge it. If they do, then standards of evidence apply. Let them verify the paper and ink for authenticity. If it all matches, then there are no other questions in this regard.

But again, the birth certificate is only one part of the equation. Let's see the passport(s) and the college records as well.

This could be settled, but only if Obama complies.

[BenIsForRon]

"Hannity weighs in on birth certificate issue"... the title implies that Hannity's opinion matters...

[Bruno]

"Hannity weighs in on birth certificate issue"... the title implies that Hannity's opinion matters...

Lol. Agreed.

But at the same time it allows many listeners who hang on his every word to realize it is alright to pose the same question, and alleviates perhaps their fear of being called a "birther" for doing so.

[Bruno]

If you are born on United States soil you are a NATURAL born citizen, even if your parents aren't citizens, look up jus soli.

I think that is what is in question. ;)

[Truth-Bringer]

If you are born on United States soil you are a NATURAL born citizen, even if your parents aren't citizens, look up jus soli.

Not if you renounced your citizenship at any point - or your parents did. Which is why we need to see his passport and education records.

[BlackTerrel]

It's the demands of the constitution that matter.

According to the Constitution who is Obama supposed to show his birth certificate to?


If there was enough evidence that Bush blew up the levies to warrant a discovery hearing then yes. Dick Cheney should have to turn over information from his "energy task force" too. But you won't see that happening either.

But there isn't any evidence. Just wild speculation based on ignorance. Similar to Obama's birth certificate.


So what? If you don't want to be scrutinized then don't run for president. Running for president isn't a right, it's a privilege. You want to ask "why should he have to turn it over". Why don't you ask yourself the question "why doesn't he go ahead and turn it over"? Sure there are a subset of people who wouldn't believe him either way but there is a larger group of people such as myself that don't necessarily believe he was foreign born but who are growing more suspicious everyday simply because of the obfuscation. So what would he have to lose?

Perhaps because he's busy running a country and doesn't want to waste his time on this bullshit. And it is bullshit. It isn't going to go anywhere, it won't get any traction and it's not going to win you and friends (other than the 14% who hate Obama anyway).

Honestly from a political perspective this has to be great for him. Let his enemies focus on this and not thinking about his policies.

[lynnf]

According to the Constitution who is Obama supposed to show his birth certificate to?



But there isn't any evidence. Just wild speculation based on ignorance. Similar to Obama's birth certificate.



Perhaps because he's busy running a country and doesn't want to waste his time on this bullshit. And it is bullshit. It isn't going to go anywhere, it won't get any traction and it's not going to win you and friends (other than the 14% who hate Obama anyway).

Honestly from a political perspective this has to be great for him. Let his enemies focus on this and not thinking about his policies.

"It isn't going to go anywhere, it won't get any traction"

oh, I don't know, it's already up to 79 messages and over 900 views on this thread at this time....... ha, ha

"and it's not going to win you and (sic) friends"

I'd rather have honest friends than unthinking louts as friends anyway....


lynn

[Zippyjuan]

I am amazed that this is still going on- and has not wandered off into Hot Topics.

Let's see. We have this pregnant chick whose baby somebody wanted to eventually become president of the US but his dad was from Kenya and some say the boy was too. His intelegent, sophisticated mother knew this would be a problem 30 years later so she placed fake birth announcements in both local newspapers and flew back from Kenya to Hawaii just a few days after giving birth to be sure things worked out on the ruse (if that was a concern, why not just stay in Honolulu and have the kid there in the first place, eh?). Pretty smart for a little 18 year old girl from Iowa. Then in 1983 she learns that Hawaii is now issuing birth certificates to people not actually born in Hawaii but who just say they were so requests a new one (she nor he would not have been elgible for one in 1961- you actually had to be born in Hawaii to get one then). Gets one issued (or maybe he did it himself since he was now over 21?). Just so he could one day become President because they knew he would since it was ordained by the New World Order, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers all at once. No way you can fight that. "Bless this child, born in a manger in Kenya, I mean, um.. Hawaii.... who is destined to be The One- the One to rule all!"

But people catch on- "show us the birth certificate!" they demand. A birth certificate is produced. ""Fake!" they cry. "No seal! No signature! No whatever!"
"You saw a bad copy" came the responce back so instead of merely scanning it the document was photographed from many angles and shown again. "Not good enough! Still must be fake!" "No, it is not a real birth certificate! I know birth certificates! (it is amazing how many birth certificate experts there are out there these days- and yet they have probably not even seen their own)" "Show us the long form!" (the long form comes from the same source as the "short form" but has more information- what "additional information" do they expect to find on it?). But still they clammor for more. Officials from the Council on Foreign Relations, oops- I mean Hawaii - come out and say "come on guys- that is the real thing! We swear! And if you don't like it- too bad! You ain't getting any more from us on it!"

At this point the Pope could swear on a stack of Blbles and Mohammed swear on a million Korans and still they would not believe. Why provide more fodder? It is not worth the effort.

And now that special child resides in one of the most powerful offices on the planet. And that scares some people.

They may not show now but I love the google ads which popped up next to this.
"Lost Birth Certificates"
"Birth Certs- $15.95 fee"

[BlackTerrel]

"It isn't going to go anywhere, it won't get any traction"

oh, I don't know, it's already up to 79 messages and over 900 views on this thread at this time....... ha, ha

"and it's not going to win you and (sic) friends"

I'd rather have honest friends than unthinking louts as friends anyway....


lynn

900 views in a country of 300 million... good luck with that.

Let's waste our time on this rather than deal with the issues.

[Bman]

900 views in a country of 300 million... good luck with that.

Let's waste our time on this rather than deal with the issues.

I agree.

First off, for starters since his mother was an actual American citizen good luck finding the holy grail of evidence.

Secondly if you do find the evidence you birthers are going to give a reason for all of those people who like Obama to actually look past issues that are important and ultimatly side with Obama without ever looking at what he is doing for a second. They will care more about opposing you rather than look whether you may be right or wrong. Plus lets face it. Joe Biden in charge will not resolve anything. Remeber Obama's mom was an American citizen. You're going to have a hard time regardless of what you do think you find.

[Bruno]

900 views in a country of 300 million... good luck with that.

Let's waste our time on this rather than deal with the issues.

:rolleyes: Its not just here that this is still discussed. It still gains attention in the media, and that is why this thread was started- Hannity was discussing Obama's birth certificate.

People can "waste their time" on this issue all they want. This issue, if true, is just one more example of the lies and misrepresentations that Obama had made in his goal to become president.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Asking to prove the birth certificate was real would be racist, wouldn't it? Asking the president to prove anything or dissent in any way is racist with this administration. If you dispute anything this administration wants to do, you're a racist, right?

I find it amazing that the proper people in society can use the "R" word while the improper people are hushed when using the "N" word. Yet, in time, one could look back and argue that neither the "R" word nor the "N" word people truly existed. I think that is the whole point, philosophically speaking. In other words, the "R" word people of today are just as despised and hated as the "N" word people once were.
Yet, we know somewhere an "R" person is going to use the "N" word when complaining about an old "N" he caught rummaging through his woodpile while at the same time an old "N" person is actually going to go out in an "R" word person's back yard to steal from his wood pile thus further exasperating the situation.
It just takes one rotten apple to spoil the whole barrel. Why can't the "R" people and the "N" people just get along?

[jmdrake]

According to the Constitution who is Obama supposed to show his birth certificate to?

:rolleyes: According to the constitution who did Bill Clinton have to show the "blue dress" to? Really I get tired of arguing with people who don't understand the underlying legal issue. But I will put it out one more time. Even Obama's biggest supporters who are honest and knowledgeable (i.e. the Wall Street journal) freely admit that there is a legitimate question about whether or not Obama is a citizen! There is nothing in the constitution that says "You have to turn over seaman stained dresses" but in the case of the Lewinski scandal it was material evidence to a potential crime and there was probable cause to believe a crime may have occurred. The same is true in this case.




But there isn't any evidence. Just wild speculation based on ignorance. Similar to Obama's birth certificate.


You're the one being ignorant! Why I don't know. Again go back and read the Wall Street Journal article I've posted and reposted! It's not "wild speculation" at all. Obama's grandmother was born out of the country. There have been more than one newspaper report prior to him being elected that called him "Kenyan born". Obama has only one U.S. parent and she was out of the country for most of the pregnancy. Did she get back in time? Maybe. Maybe not. But you are being intellectually dishonest to call this "wild speculation" or "ignorance" or whatever lame argument you want to come up with next.



Perhaps because he's busy running a country and doesn't want to waste his time on this bullshit. And it is bullshit. It isn't going to go anywhere, it won't get any traction and it's not going to win you and friends (other than the 14% who hate Obama anyway).


Oh cut the crap! He's spent millions already on lawyers trying to block this. He could have spent far less money and time to release the stinking certificate! And I'm not trying to "win friends" on the argument. I could care less about it one way or another. But I'm not going to sit idly by and watch people like you spout off a bunch of nonsense that they don't know!



Honestly from a political perspective this has to be great for him. Let his enemies focus on this and not thinking about his policies.

And why are you focusing on it? :rolleyes:

[jmdrake]

900 views in a country of 300 million... good luck with that.

Let's waste our time on this rather than deal with the issues.

It's funny how you won't less this go and yet you want to pretend like you don't want to waste time on the issue. :rolleyes: From a political point of view I agree with you. It's not worth it. But from a legal point of view you are totally clueless on the issue.

[BlackTerrel]

:rolleyes: Its not just here that this is still discussed. It still gains attention in the media, and that is why this thread was started- Hannity was discussing Obama's birth certificate.

People can "waste their time" on this issue all they want. This issue, if true, is just one more example of the lies and misrepresentations that Obama had made in his goal to become president.

Wow - Hannity :eek:

14% believe he wasn't born in the US. The same 14% would respond affirmative if you asked them if Obama was a demon shapeshifter. They are always going to respond negatively to any question about Obama. That's understandable.

But that 14% isn't going to go up, regardless of this thread, or what Hannity or Palin say.

[BlackTerrel]

It's funny how you won't less this go and yet you want to pretend like you don't want to waste time on the issue. :rolleyes: From a political point of view I agree with you. It's not worth it. But from a legal point of view you are totally clueless on the issue.

Yeah I have trouble letting go. I like to argue, and I get annoyed by crazy conspiracy theories - always been a fault of mine :D

This is from wiki:


The Obama campaign's "Fight the Smears" website published a scanned image of Obama's Certification of Live Birth issued by the State of Hawaii's Department of Health in June 2007. The website declared:

Smears claiming Barack Obama doesn't have a birth certificate aren't actually about that piece of paper — they're about manipulating people into thinking Barack is not an American citizen. The truth is, Barack Obama was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961, a native citizen of the United States of America.[25]

The release of the certificate prompted a fresh round of questions. Believers asserted that the certificate had been digitally forged with Adobe Photoshop and lacked a stamped seal of the state, which led them to demand that Obama release his "original" 1961 birth certificate.[2] Jerome Corsi, author of the book The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality, told Fox News that "the campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website… it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce."[17] This view was rejected by the state authorities, the media and independent factchecking organizations. FactCheck.org was invited to view the Obama campaign's hard copy of the candidate's Certification of Live Birth and concluded:

FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.[17]

....The image posted online at Obama's website is a "Certification of Live Birth" and is sometimes referred to as a short form birth certificate. It contains less information than the longer "Certificate of Live Birth." FactCheck.org states that the short form is "prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding".[17] Obama's short form was laser-printed and certified by the State of Hawaii on June 6, 2007. The Hawaii State Department of Health no longer issues the long-form Certificate and issues only the shorter Certification upon request.[32]

So according to this he released what would be considered proof of birth in any court proceedings. I think it's pretty obvious that he was born in the US. Some people won't let it go, but the vast majority just want to move on.


A birth notice for Barack Obama was published in both the Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star-Bulletin on August 13 and August 14, 1961, respectively, listing the home address of Obama's parents as 6085 Kalanianaole Highway in Honolulu.[17][36] On August 3, 2009, in response to the growing controversy, the Advertiser posted on its Web site a screenshot of the announcement taken from its microfilmed archives. Such notices were sent to newspapers routinely by the Hawaii Department of Health.[36]

I guess the coverup started in 1961. Look conspiracy theorists will never be convinced by anything - nothing will ever be enough, that's just how it is.


In an editorial published on July 29, 2009, the Star-Bulletin pointed out that both newspapers' vital-statistics columns are available on microfilm in the main state library. "Were the state Department of Health and Obama's parents really in cahoots to give false information to the newspapers, perhaps intending to clear the way for the baby to someday be elected president of the United States?" the newspaper asked sarcastically.[37]

[jmdrake]

Wow - Hannity :eek:

14% believe he wasn't born in the US. The same 14% would respond affirmative if you asked them if Obama was a demon shapeshifter. They are always going to respond negatively to any question about Obama. That's understandable.

But that 14% isn't going to go up, regardless of this thread, or what Hannity or Palin say.

More then double that number aren't sure if Obama was born in the U.S. or not.

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2009/07/disturbing-poll-on-obamas-citizenship.html

81% say Obama should just release the long form and be done with it. [edit: Ok. It's an online poll. But Obama supporters had as much of a chance to spam it as anyone else.]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105023

And 70% of Americans once believed Saddam was involved in 9/11. :o

[jmdrake]

Yeah I have trouble letting go. I like to argue, and I get annoyed by crazy conspiracy theories - always been a fault of mine :D

This is from wiki:


Oh wow! You found something from Wikipedia! :rolleyes:




So according to this he released what would be considered proof of birth in any court proceedings. I think it's pretty obvious that he was born in the US. Some people won't let it go, but the vast majority just want to move on.


81% of Americans want to see the long form released and then move on.



I guess the coverup started in 1961. Look conspiracy theorists will never be convinced by anything - nothing will ever be enough, that's just how it is.

I'd, along with many others, would be happy to see all of the cards laid out on the table and a final resolution by a judge. I've even seen Obama supporters say "Just release the stinking papers and be done with it".

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2009/07/disturbing-poll-on-obamas-citizenship.html

Here are the details:

Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 7/27-30. All adults. MoE 2%

Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?

Yes 77
No 11
Not sure 12


And here are the partisan and regional breakdowns, which show that the false belief that Obama was not born in this country is most commonly held by Republicans and residents of the South:
Yes No Not sure
Dem 93 4 3
Rep 42 28 30
Ind 83 8 9

Northeast 93 4 3
South 47 23 30
Midwest 90 6 4
West 87 7 6

[Bruno]

BlackTerrel - Did the article from 2004 have it wrong when they mentioned he was Kenyan born? Did Barack's grandmother have it wrong when she claimed she was there to witness his birth in Kenya?

Sunday, June 27, 2004

Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

http://sentinelradio.wordpress.com/2...for-us-senate/

[jmdrake]

BlackTerrel - Did the article from 2004 have it wrong when they mentioned he was Kenyan born? Did Barack's grandmother have it wrong when she claimed she was there to witness his birth in Kenya?

Sunday, June 27, 2004

Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

http://sentinelradio.wordpress.com/2...for-us-senate/

That was all part of a carefully planned right wing conspiracy to discredit Obama when he actually became president. :D

[purplechoe]

900 views in a country of 300 million... good luck with that.

Let's waste our time on this rather than deal with the issues.

I'm NOT here for name calling, just would like to make sure that you realize one fact:

"You're not as intelligent as YOU think you are!"

[Dianne]

Obama is not American born. His presidency is the greatest farce ever presented to the American people. Yep... the UN got us this time; big time, lolol... Only Pelosi, Reid and Dean could pull this one off.

Dude ???? Can you explain why the dude has two names... a real name and an alias? Barry Soetoro aka Barak Obama?

And why can't we see this guys school records? Why is everything about this "person" kept hidden from personal viewing. You know why? Because all his school applications and his college records will verify that he was an immigrant seeking out of country free college tuition.

You know how it is, the United States taxpayer's kids don't get jack squat; but if you come here from another country, your harvard law school bills paid for by the United States tax payer.

This is why each of us should apply to become illegal aliens of the USA. Then possibly, we will have a better future, and one day become President like the unconstitutional, Indonesian dude Obama or Soetoto? Not sure what name he likes to go by these days.

[Dianne]

I have a question to all of you who think Obama the cream of the crop, and just a lovely American citizen.

Why have we not seen a birth certificate? Why have we not seen any of this mans college records, high school records, elementary school records? George Bush was a desserter from the military (IMO) and at least it was brought up. Unfortunately (cough) his microfisch military records were lost in some unexplainable mishap, just before an investigation was to take place.

Well, Obama the same thing. Who the hell is giving us these guys that are so illegitimate their records have to be destroyed?

Look, if Obama does not have to present his credentials; i.e., birth certificate, certificate of authenticity, school records; yet we will give him the phone that can blow up the planet.... then why do we have to provide that information when applying for a job or renewing our driver's license?

[BlackTerrel]

More then double that number aren't sure if Obama was born in the U.S. or not.

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2009/07/disturbing-poll-on-obamas-citizenship.html

Not sure is basically people who don't follow politics at all. I take that with a grain of salt. Your poll has 11% who don't believe he was born in the US. That's actually similar to the number who say he is a Muslim. It would probably also be similar to the number that would answer affirmative to "is Obama an evil lizard person from outer space". You are always going to get these people who will vote for anything bad about you in a poll (not saying Muslim is bad, but in their eyes it probably is). So what should he do? Release photos of him at Church. It is what it is, some people will never be convinced.


81% say Obama should just release the long form and be done with it. [edit: Ok. It's an online poll. But Obama supporters had as much of a chance to spam it as anyone else.]

But Obama fans wouldn't spam it. Because they don't care. Obama won - why should they care about an online poll?

[BlackTerrel]

BlackTerrel - Did the article from 2004 have it wrong when they mentioned he was Kenyan born? Did Barack's grandmother have it wrong when she claimed she was there to witness his birth in Kenya?

Did the Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star-Bulletin get it wrong when they wrote that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961? These issues are on microfilm in the local library.

[RideTheDirt]

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”
http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.html

[RideTheDirt]

http://i50.tinypic.com/e7hx7m.jpg

Is it me or does that say he was a citizen of Kenya?

[Bruno]

Did the Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star-Bulletin get it wrong when they wrote that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961? These issues are on microfilm in the local library.

Yes. They got it wrong and this article got it right.

And so did Obama's grandmother saying that she was there to witness his birth in Kenya.

[Bruno]

Is it me or does that say he was a citizen of Kenya?

Sure looks that way to me!


“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

I think here they are trying to state that he is now a U.S. citizen, but at the same time admitting that he was until 1982 a Kenyan citizen.

And the birth certificate posted at the link is once again the only one we have seen - and obviously a new copy based upon the font which didn't exist back in 1961.

[pacelli]

The article from factcheck seems to imply that Obama was a dual citizen.

[torchbearer]

The article from factcheck seems to imply that Obama was a dual citizen.

Obama is a dual-citizen, place of birth still not verified.

[Zippyjuan]

No actual evidence has been shown to prove he was born someplace else. A copy of his Hawaii birth certificate has been produced and verified by Hawaiian officials. People who do not accept the facts presented so far will not be satisifed by any additional information.

If the UK offered him citizenship, that does not deny nor preclude nor negate his US Citizenship. The United States has no influence on what citizenship status another country may choose to bestow on people.

The alleged quote from his Grandmother about being born in Kenya has been disproven.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/07/23/liddy/

In that interview, Sarah Obama does in fact say at one point that she was there for her grandson's birth. But that was a mistake, a confusion in translation. As soon as a jubilant McRae began to press her for further details about her grandson being born in Kenya, the family realized the mistake and corrected him. And corrected him. And corrected him. (The audio is available for download here.)

Here's the conversation:


MCRAE: Could I ask her about his actual birthplace? I would like to see his birthplace when I come to Kenya in December. Was she present when he was born in Kenya?

OGOMBE: Yes. She says, yes, she was, she was present when Obama was born.

MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?

OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.

[jmdrake]

Not sure is basically people who don't follow politics at all.


:rolleyes: You get more ridiculous with each post. Do you think Rand Paul doesn't follow politics at all? He's just as unsure about where Obama was born as I am. Not sure simply means NOT FREAKING SURE! Nobody that's arguing this has actually seen a real Obama birth certificate. Not you. Not me. Not Zippyjuan. Nobody. Some people, such as yourself, are willing to accept a highly compressed version as a birth certificate. Fine. Good for you. But that doesn't give you a right to be a jackass and claim folks who are not convinced because we have yet to see any real evidence as being people who "don't follow politics". Again Obama could settle this easily if he wanted to. Instead he's spent millions and months obfuscated. I used to be more in your camp, but the more obfuscation he does, and the more ridiculous and unconstitutional arguments that are thrown out by your side, the more I wonder.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Bruno]

No actual evidence has been shown to prove he was born someplace else. A copy of his Hawaii birth certificate has been produced and verified by Hawaiian officials. People who do not accept the facts presented so far will not be satisifed by any additional information.

If the UK offered him citizenship, that does not deny nor preclude nor negate his US Citizenship. The United States has no influence on what citizenship status another country may choose to bestow on people.

The alleged quote from his Grandmother about being born in Kenya has been disproven.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/07/23/liddy/

In bold is simply not true. There is information that has been requested but not provided, such as the original birth certificate.

No one here has claimed to have the smoking gun on where he was born. But there has been sufficient evidence to speculate that he was not born in America, and he has not aided his own case by spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid providing the evidence in court. The birth certificate which has been provided is not an original, but a copy produced after 1961, and of the type that was not administered at birth in the state of Hawaii, nor does it list the doctor who delivered him.

[jmdrake]

No actual evidence has been shown to prove he was born someplace else. A copy of his Hawaii birth certificate has been produced and verified by Hawaiian officials. People who do not accept the facts presented so far will not be satisifed by any additional information.


Are you God now? Can you read people's minds? I would be satisfied if a judge actually over the original long form birth certificate. I think a lot of other people would too. The is absolutely nothing to be gained from the continued obfuscation if the original form verifies his birth. This would deflate the claims of those who rightly ask "what is he hiding"? If you like I can show you the old posts where I was arguing against the birthers. I'm still not a birther. But the fact that I've moved more to the "unsure" column proves your logic is totally backwards. At least it is in my case. And I doubt I'm the only one that's become more unsure of Obama's birth as the obfuscation continues. Wasn't he supposed to be about transparency?

[Bruno]

From this site: http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=135

A strange development indeed is how it is that every time Barack Obama or a family member tells of where Obama was born, they seem to have no idea as of December 2008.

They seemed to know what hospital quite a few times months ago when it was claimed that Obama’s mother gave birth to him at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu - Obama and Mom Never Here

The Queen’s Medical Center
1301 Punchbowl StreetHonolulu, HI 96813 Link to Site
Phone number 808-538-9011 General Medical Records 808-547-4361.

After it was concluded that Obama and his mother were never there, his sister was in an interview (Mary) and claimed that Obama was born at Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children - Obama and Mom Never Here 1319 Punahou StreetHonolulu, Hawaii 96826(808) 535-7000 Link to site

Hospital after Hospital - all Have No Record of Obama being born or Mom Ever being There.


Hospital after hospital in Honolulu all have NO RECORD of Obama or mother ever being there. Is this some state secret? Are we to believe that even the hospital that he was born in should remain secret? Why lie to us as if it matters I mean the man did win the Presidential vote? Why the lies and secrecy?

We already know that Obama’s family and the entire nation of Kenya (which is about to have a national holiday for Obama) know that Barack Obama was born in Mombasa Coastal Hospital in Kenya. The government of Kenya has sealed these records. More and more secrecy due to the fact that once proven, Obama will not be constitutionally allowed to become President of the United States!

All of these were called or visited from November 20 - December 2nd 2008. It is confirmed, OBAMA was not born in any hospital in Honolulu County! NONE AS A FACT!
Hospital employees were bribed, some gave info for free.
Hospitals you can check yourself (Hint on the process: Most of the following Hospitals didn’t exist in Honolulu County at time of Obama’s birth so this was an academic exercise) The main two hospitals claimed that definitely existed are above and both have no record of Obama or Mother Ann in either of them.

The Queen’s Medical Center - Honolulu, Hawaii Obama claims as his birth hospital

Kapi’ olani Medical Center Obama’s sister claims Barack Obama born here
Honolulu Shriners Hospital Never a patient Mom or Obama
Straub Clinic & Hospital Never a patient Mom or Obama
Hawaii Health Systems Corporation - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
Cancer Institute of Maui - Wailuku, Hawaii No Comment ???

Kuakini Hospital - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
Rehabilitation Hospital of the Pacific - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
St. Francis Healthcare System of Hawaii - Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
Straub Heatlh - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
Tripler Medical Center - Honolulu, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
Wahiawa General Hospital - Wahiawa, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
Wilcox Memorial Hospital - Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii Never a patient Mom or Obama
We were pretty detailed in our calls and visits thanks to dozens of native Hawaiian patriots! To the College Republicans all over the Island kudos!. You can look at every hospital here and call or visit any of them. Everyone has a family member working in a hospital. Talk, pay and bribe. You can file freedom of information acts, you can do everything and anything you wish. Barack Obama was never born in a hospital in Hawaii as claimed.

Only his original that he has sealed will have this info. Will the Supreme Court force it open and thus preserve the Constitution of the United States?

Why the Barack Obama Birth Certificate Issue Is Legitimate

Hawaii Issues Birth Certificates to Foreign Born Residents!
Here’s Hawaii saying it like it it. All Doubts Cleared my Friends.
A. From Hawaii’s official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: “Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country“ (applies to adopted children).
B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.
C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.
D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.
E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.
F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: “In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.”

Now that we all understand that you can be born in Madagascar, Russia, Norway, Brazil or even Kenya like Obama and still have a REAL birth certificate that both Snopes and Factcheck would say was real since they are real. That doesn’t mean you were born in Hawaii. Does this matter to America?
Barack Obama has as of November 27th 2008 spent over$500,000 U.S. to prevent others from seeing it. Why? Didn’t he already win the vote?
Please don’t bring up Snopes (link) that says THEYVE SEEN Obama’s birth certificate and it is the one on his site called Fight the Smears. That is just plain garbage as it has a 2007 border and doesn’t list the hospital, Dr. or place of birth! Plus they say they’ve seen his real birth certificate (you know the one that we the people aren’t allowed to see) .

[Zippyjuan]

The long form comes from the same source as the shorter version already shown. What additional information do you expect to find on it? Just curious.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated Monday afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives:
"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

[torchbearer]

The long form comes from the same source as the shorter version already shown. What additional information do you expect to find on it? Just curious.

a doctor's signature as witness to the birth. kinda hard to fake unless the doctor is dead.

[Zippyjuan]

It will still say born in Honolulu which is what some people are questioning.

[torchbearer]

It will still say born in Honolulu which is what some people are questioning.

is there a long form?
the only thing i've seen is a photoshopable digital image with no signatures- nothing but text placed in spots on a generic green short form.
I can make myself born in Honolulu in about an hours time using the same form.

Who was his doctor at birth?

[Bruno]

The long form comes from the same source as the shorter version already shown. What additional information do you expect to find on it? Just curious.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm

Oh, Dr. Chiyome Fukino has seen it?? Oh, then I guess we should all just trust that. :rolleyes: All Obama has to do is say, "Dr. Chiyome Fukino, please release my original long form certificate. Thank you." and it would be all over. But he has refused to do so.

"In 2001, Hawaii's paper documents were reproduced in electronic format, but "any paper data prior to that still exists," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said.

Okubo would not say where Obama's original birth certificate is but said, "We have backups for all of our backups."

SO RELEASE THE ORIGINAL, OBAMA, SINCE IT STILL EXISTS.

[Bruno]

Insert "global warming" in place of "birth certificate" into this debate, and you will see it from another angle.

"Birthers" who want to see more undeniable evidence that Obama was born in this country are marginalized and name-called, as are "Deniers" who want to see more evidence that man-made global warming exists.

[BlackTerrel]

Yes. They got it wrong and this article got it right.

And so did Obama's grandmother saying that she was there to witness his birth in Kenya.

So this conspiracy goes all the way back to 1961?

[torchbearer]

So this conspiracy goes all the way back to 1961?

no, just his birth.

[BlackTerrel]

:rolleyes: You get more ridiculous with each post. Do you think Rand Paul doesn't follow politics at all? He's just as unsure about where Obama was born as I am. Not sure simply means NOT FREAKING SURE! Nobody that's arguing this has actually seen a real Obama birth certificate. Not you. Not me. Not Zippyjuan. Nobody. Some people, such as yourself, are willing to accept a highly compressed version as a birth certificate. Fine. Good for you. But that doesn't give you a right to be a jackass and claim folks who are not convinced because we have yet to see any real evidence as being people who "don't follow politics". Again Obama could settle this easily if he wanted to. Instead he's spent millions and months obfuscated. I used to be more in your camp, but the more obfuscation he does, and the more ridiculous and unconstitutional arguments that are thrown out by your side, the more I wonder.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Obama could not settle this easily. Why do a similar percentage of people who believe he is not a US citizen believe he is a Muslim? The same percentage will never be convinced.

[BlackTerrel]

Hospital after Hospital - all Have No Record of Obama being born or Mom Ever being There.

Hospital after hospital in Honolulu all have NO RECORD of Obama or mother ever being there. Is this some state secret? Are we to believe that even the hospital that he was born in should remain secret? Why lie to us as if it matters I mean the man did win the Presidential vote? Why the lies and secrecy?

Obama was said to have been born at Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Hawaii. They say that it is their standard policy to neither confirm nor deny if someone was born there.

You can say that is a strange policy. But if they were involved in the coverup they simply would have said he was born there no?

[jmdrake]

Obama could not settle this easily. Why do a similar percentage of people who believe he is not a US citizen believe he is a Muslim? The same percentage will never be convinced.

There would not longer be any potential legal case. Right now there is. You may not acknowledge it, but it does indeed exist. Really, I'm done with this. If you want to defend Obama's total lack of transparency and flout the legitimate constitutional and legal issues with strawmen and poor logic go right ahead. Obama will continue to destroy his own legitimacy because people like me who used to argue the other side will continue to wonder what he has to hide.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Bruno]

Obama could not settle this easily. Why do a similar percentage of people who believe he is not a US citizen believe he is a Muslim? The same percentage will never be convinced.

FAIL> Obama could settle this easily by asking Dr. Chiyome Fukino, who has supposedly seen the long form, original birth certificate, to simply release it. Done. End of story.

....Or.....he could spend a few more hundred thousand dollars in court refusing to do so. :p

[dealerjim]

By the time the truth comes out, the damage to the U.S. will be done. The fact that he has spent so much trying to hide it only shows guilt. If he was born in the U.S., his real certificate of live birth signed by the delivering doctor would've been shown by now. Barry is a usurper, plain and simple...