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View Full Version : Who Should Run in 2012? Ron Paul vs. Gary Johnson




bobbyw24
12-02-2009, 10:09 AM
http://www.thelibertyblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Ron-Paul-239x300.jpg

http://www.thelibertyblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Gary-Johnson-BETTER-243x300.jpg

While it is still early to speculate about who will run against President Obama in 2012, many candidates will make their intentions known by next summer, which is not that far away. We can expect to see politicians like Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, and Tim Pawlenty throw their hats into the ring. What remains to be seen is which of the two big libertarian names will enter the race.

A few years ago it was not that common to know who Ron Paul was. After his presidential run in 2008, Paul became much more well-known (I’m proof!). Gary Johnson seems to be in the position Paul was in 2008. According to an Angus Reid Strategies national poll, approximately 86% of Republicans had yet to form an opinion of him as a presidential candidate as of July 25, 2009. Nevertheless, he has some advantages over Paul. Let’s look at the Pro and Cons of each candidate:

Ron Paul

Pro: Extremely visible (Congressman, Presidential run, many recent media appearances, etc).
Pro: Enthusiastic and mobile following including established national organizations such as the Campaign for Liberty and Young Americans for Liberty
Pro: Recently expanded support from wider base (Michele Bachmann, Jim DeMint, etc.)
Pro: Proven Fund Raiser – Set 24 hour fund raising record during last presidential campaign

Con: Age – Would be well into his 70s by the time he was sworn in
Con: Stigma of “no chance” of winning
Con: A Presidential run would continue the focus of the liberty movement on one individual, which is nowhat he desires

Gary Johnson

Pro: Young (Age 56); Athletic and physically fit (marathon runner)
Pro: Electable – Won two Governors races in New Mexico where Democratic voter registration outnumbers Republicans 2 to 1
Pro: Formed a PAC to get back into political arena
Pro: Appeals to Democrats and Independents

Con: Low visibility – Out of politics since 2002
Con: Fund Raising ability is questionable
Con: Complete lack of media attention recently

So what we have is an established but aging media “star” with an enthusiastic following who are very active and ready to support another bid. On the other hand we have a less visible, younger candidate who has proven his ability to win even in the most Democratic-filled constituencies.

In my opinion, it would be counter-intuitive to have both run. It would divide libertarians and would not allow us to focus on fund raising for ONE candidate and getting the word out about ONE candidate. Instead we would be promoting two candidates thereby each fighting for votes from each other instead of from a wider base.

One thing libertarians would agree on is that we need at least one of these two politicians to run in 2012. There needs to be a libertarian voice, because it contrasts with what most of the candidates will be promoting. None of the other candidates will advocate legalizing marijuana, ending the federal reserve, and ending our counter-productive empirical foreign policy. There needs to be a voice for liberty, but the question of who that will be is up for debate.

http://www.thelibertyblogger.com/?p=598

johnrocks
12-02-2009, 10:14 AM
Perhaps both should run OR Ron could endorse Johnson.

Romulus
12-02-2009, 10:20 AM
A Paul/Bachman Ticket would be a winner and neutralize that nitwit Palin.

klamath
12-02-2009, 10:24 AM
I'm getting over worrying about this dual run attempt. The wars will be fun fun fun and will keep it lively around here. Nobody will get elected but who the hell cares about that.

Meatwasp
12-02-2009, 10:41 AM
Gary Johnson would be better to run small as senator but he is not recognizable as president material. Sorry you lovers of Johnson he don't srtike a flint spark for me.

Elwar
12-02-2009, 10:54 AM
Nitpicking the little differences between Paul and Johnson will be done by those who don't truly understand Ron Paul or liberty.

Any libertarian winning would be great.

TCE
12-02-2009, 11:42 AM
It would be a true disappointment if, in his last opportunity ever, that we would not support a Dr. Paul run. His visibility is way up from 2008 and we are much more experienced than the last time.

klamath
12-02-2009, 11:59 AM
I suggest the Gary johnson supporters start the Gary Johnson forums. When you report back on how posts and attendence is above the RP forums then you might have a point that Gary Johnson is more viable than RP.
Why haven't you started the Gary Johnson forums????

TCE
12-02-2009, 12:02 PM
I suggest the Gary johnson supporters start the Gary Johnson forums. When you report back on how posts and attendents is above the RP forums then you might have a point that Gary Johnson is more viable than RP.
Why haven't you started the Gary Johnson forums????

Only around 20% of us would join...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Johnson has far too many skeletons in his closet. If you think Huckabee is in hot water, wait until Republican primary opponents begin attacking Johnson about the frenzy surrounding his late wife. It is a bad idea to associate the Liberty Movement with all of those skeletons.

TheConstitutionLives
12-02-2009, 12:11 PM
I love Paul but he's 400 years old and thats too old to run for president if his intention is to win.

TonySutton
12-02-2009, 12:29 PM
Having more than one Liberty candidate running increases the airtime Liberty is given and each candidate lends credibility to the other. The strongest horse will pull ahead and the Liberty activists will fall in line behind him/her.

dr. hfn
12-02-2009, 12:36 PM
Ron has one more chance to run...I will support any Liberty Candidate...

klamath
12-02-2009, 12:42 PM
I love Paul but he's 400 years old and thats too old to run for president if his intention is to win.

"I know people are going to bring age into the race but I refuse to attack my opponent's youth and inexperience" And his supporters.

tajitj
12-02-2009, 12:48 PM
BOTH

I think it is all setting up for both of them to run. They will be in the debates, hitting the trail and seeing what the polls look like and if one feels like they have a real shot the other will get out before voting.

Ron Pauls visits to Iowa, South Carolina are perfect to keep them focused and ready to go for him in 2012, I hope he at least files and gets to nail the others in the first 50 debates or however many they have now.

Oh, and this divorce thing is nothing more than a few judgemental fools on this site who keep pushing the idea, as if they have a clue as to what happened between him and his wife. Google Gary Johnson and divorce, guess what, a ronpaulforums thread is at the top. It is not a huge issue, people get divorced nowdays and they should if they are making eachother miserable and unhappy. In todays society his position on drugs will be more damaging than his divorce.

Just because a few hardcore, probably unmarried people on here will bring it up, I for one will not judge a mans political views because of his falling out of love with his wife. I am happily married and plan on being with my wife for the rest of my life. Come on, I thought most of us were libertarians.

Working Poor
12-02-2009, 12:48 PM
I would support the one that RP supports.

tremendoustie
12-02-2009, 01:00 PM
Both RP and GJ should run, as well as other liberty candidates.

Elwar
12-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Why haven't you started the Gary Johnson forums????

Good idea:

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum.php

Even the neo-cons eventually back the winner of neo-cons and don't seem to be arguing about the fact that so many neo-cons are running.

stu2002
12-02-2009, 01:19 PM
Ron Paul all the way, baby

AbolishTheGovt
12-02-2009, 02:11 PM
I think Gary Johnson has an actual chance at winning the presidency, whereas Ron Paul does not. However, they ought to both run to help get out the libertarian message.

klamath
12-02-2009, 02:31 PM
google search = 1 - 10 of about 1,530,000 for "Ron paul". of which the vast vast majority are about Ron Ernest Paul congressmen from Texes.

google search=Results 1 - 10 of about 388,000 for "Gary Johnson". of which the vast majority are not Gary Johnson former governor of NM but everyone form wildlife photographers to child pornographers.
And to the young people who think RP's name was made only in the '08 election I call bullsh**. I first heard RP at the republican convention of 1976.

Captain Bryan
12-02-2009, 06:15 PM
Having more than one Liberty candidate running increases the airtime Liberty is given and each candidate lends credibility to the other. The strongest horse will pull ahead and the Liberty activists will fall in line behind him/her.

Yes.

RevolutionSD
12-02-2009, 06:23 PM
http://www.thelibertyblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Ron-Paul-239x300.jpg

http://www.thelibertyblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Gary-Johnson-BETTER-243x300.jpg

While it is still early to speculate about who will run against President Obama in 2012, many candidates will make their intentions known by next summer, which is not that far away. We can expect to see politicians like Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, and Tim Pawlenty throw their hats into the ring. What remains to be seen is which of the two big libertarian names will enter the race.

A few years ago it was not that common to know who Ron Paul was. After his presidential run in 2008, Paul became much more well-known (I’m proof!). Gary Johnson seems to be in the position Paul was in 2008. According to an Angus Reid Strategies national poll, approximately 86% of Republicans had yet to form an opinion of him as a presidential candidate as of July 25, 2009. Nevertheless, he has some advantages over Paul. Let’s look at the Pro and Cons of each candidate:

Ron Paul

Pro: Extremely visible (Congressman, Presidential run, many recent media appearances, etc).
Pro: Enthusiastic and mobile following including established national organizations such as the Campaign for Liberty and Young Americans for Liberty
Pro: Recently expanded support from wider base (Michele Bachmann, Jim DeMint, etc.)
Pro: Proven Fund Raiser – Set 24 hour fund raising record during last presidential campaign

Con: Age – Would be well into his 70s by the time he was sworn in
Con: Stigma of “no chance” of winning
Con: A Presidential run would continue the focus of the liberty movement on one individual, which is nowhat he desires

Gary Johnson

Pro: Young (Age 56); Athletic and physically fit (marathon runner)
Pro: Electable – Won two Governors races in New Mexico where Democratic voter registration outnumbers Republicans 2 to 1
Pro: Formed a PAC to get back into political arena
Pro: Appeals to Democrats and Independents

Con: Low visibility – Out of politics since 2002
Con: Fund Raising ability is questionable
Con: Complete lack of media attention recently

So what we have is an established but aging media “star” with an enthusiastic following who are very active and ready to support another bid. On the other hand we have a less visible, younger candidate who has proven his ability to win even in the most Democratic-filled constituencies.

In my opinion, it would be counter-intuitive to have both run. It would divide libertarians and would not allow us to focus on fund raising for ONE candidate and getting the word out about ONE candidate. Instead we would be promoting two candidates thereby each fighting for votes from each other instead of from a wider base.

One thing libertarians would agree on is that we need at least one of these two politicians to run in 2012. There needs to be a libertarian voice, because it contrasts with what most of the candidates will be promoting. None of the other candidates will advocate legalizing marijuana, ending the federal reserve, and ending our counter-productive empirical foreign policy. There needs to be a voice for liberty, but the question of who that will be is up for debate.

http://www.thelibertyblogger.com/?p=598

You left out a con on Gary J- doesn't oppose the income tax. :(

Austrian Econ Disciple
12-02-2009, 06:25 PM
Ron Paul 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's his last go around. I echo another, it would be such a shame that we would abandon the best candidate we have. Gary can run in 2016. Ron needs to run again for liberty. I have a good feeling he's going to and we all should work 200% harder than we did last time.

RON 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ChaosControl
12-02-2009, 08:02 PM
You left out a con on Gary J- doesn't oppose the income tax. :(

And supports abortion being legal.

speciallyblend
12-02-2009, 08:05 PM
And supports abortion being legal.

abortion is not an issue under a ron paul platform, state rights. so you can be for or against. this is why ron paul united pro and anti abortion groups under his platform.

BuddyRey
12-02-2009, 08:18 PM
Both of course!

Austrian Econ Disciple
12-02-2009, 08:21 PM
Both of course!

Honestly, I don't see that as beneficial. Splitting the fundraising is going to cause too much economic pain for both candidates. Both candidates main source of revenue will be individual donors. We need to maximize the amount and not divide it. You're not going to see Goldman Sachs donate to RP or GJ. Likewise most companies won't either. I honestly only see bad written over this if both run, from a purely economic standpoint. Imagine cutting in half Ron's war chest from 08' and how do you think he would have done?

RevolutionSD
12-02-2009, 08:43 PM
And supports abortion being legal.

Oh that one is fine with me, people should be able to make their own decisions...we don't need a bunch of bureaucrats telling people what they should believe in terms of morals.

ChaosControl
12-02-2009, 08:57 PM
abortion is not an issue under a ron paul platform, state rights. so you can be for or against. this is why ron paul united pro and anti abortion groups under his platform.

He has introduced legislation defining a person at conception. He is pro-life and that is the reason I can support him so proudly. I cannot support someone who supports abortion.

Elwar
12-03-2009, 08:23 AM
And supports abortion being legal.

Gary Johnson's stance as a presidential candidate is the exact same as Ron Paul's.

klamath
12-03-2009, 09:08 AM
Gary Johnson's stance as a presidential candidate is the exact same as Ron Paul's.

Unfortunately the abortion stance is the same to me as if the country wasn't a war and you had a candidate that was running who had this stance; "I don't like war and hope we never have to get in one but I believe it is America's job and responsibility to police and promote democracy around the world." Would you vote for this person?
I wouldn't because even thought he says he is against war, in his term an event would very likely happen around the world that would prompt him to fight for democracy. Likewise with a proabortion candidate. Abortion is not going to suddenly become a state issue when he is elected and more than likely he will be faced with a choice on the issue. RP was forced to make a decision at the federal level and he chose life, GJ would not.

Elwar
12-03-2009, 10:04 AM
Abortion is not going to suddenly become a state issue when he is elected and more than likely he will be faced with a choice on the issue. RP was forced to make a decision at the federal level and he chose life, GJ would not.

Gary Johnson was faced with the abortion issue and consistently supported pro-life bills and issues when he was governor. The New Mexico Right to Life Committee called him “a warrior for the pro-life cause”.

klamath
12-03-2009, 10:08 AM
Gary Johnson was faced with the abortion issue and consistently supported pro-life bills and issues when he was governor. The New Mexico Right to Life Committee called him “a warrior for the pro-life cause”.

OK, this is your chance to make a possible sale as an alternate if RP doesn't run. Support this with links.

Elwar
12-03-2009, 10:25 AM
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+New+Mexico+Maverick:+Gov.+Gary+Johnson,+libert arian+star.-a056899758

As for abortion, he's one of those politicians who say they're personally against it but wouldn't be comfortable outlawing it-yet local pro-lifers love him. "He backs every piece of legislation we're for," says Dauneen Dolce , of the Right to Life Committee of New Mexico. That includes "parental consent," "informed consent," and bans on assisted suicide, partial-birth abortion, and Medicaid-funded abortion. Johnson didn't win the group's endorsement in 1994, but got it four years later.


http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-107064682/abortion-ban-62-bills.html

Gov. Gary Johnson on Monday signed into law more than 60 measures passed by lawmakers during this year's regular legislative session, including a bill outlawing so-called "partial-birth" abortions.

"We now have a law on a horrible type of abortion that will save the lives of babies that can be saved and protect women," said Dauneen Dolce, executive director of The Right to Life Committee of New Mexico, which lobbied for the ban. "I'm very pleased for New Mexico."

RevolutionSD
12-03-2009, 10:29 AM
Abortion is a non-issue.

Money is being extorted from people in our country by a group of thugs at an obscene rate. This affects EVERYONE.

Abortion, while horrible, only affects a tiny percentage of people. Compared to taxation, it's a non-issue.

Comparing it to the wars, it's even less of an issue. Over a million innocent people have died in the middle east this decade because of U.S. aggression. Thousands of U.S. soldiers have died for no reason, 10's of thousands more are seriously injured.

Abortion numbers pale in comparison. And, they are not extracting money from you to pay for abortions.

Wars? You pay dearly for them.

klamath
12-03-2009, 10:38 AM
Abortion is a non-issue.

Money is being extorted from people in our country by a group of thugs at an obscene rate. This affects EVERYONE.

Abortion, while horrible, only affects a tiny percentage of people. Compared to taxation, it's a non-issue.

Comparing it to the wars, it's even less of an issue. Over a million innocent people have died in the middle east this decade because of U.S. aggression. Thousands of U.S. soldiers have died for no reason, 10's of thousands more are seriously injured.

Abortion numbers pale in comparison. And, they are not extracting money from you to pay for abortions.

Wars? You pay dearly for them.

Not going to get into a abortion debate on this thread but abortion has killed muliple millions and the kill rate every day exceeds war deaths by far.

Elwar
12-03-2009, 10:39 AM
Abortion is a non-issue.

Money is being extorted from people in our country by a group of thugs at an obscene rate. This affects EVERYONE.

Abortion, while horrible, only affects a tiny percentage of people. Compared to taxation, it's a non-issue.

Comparing it to the wars, it's even less of an issue. Over a million innocent people have died in the middle east this decade because of U.S. aggression. Thousands of U.S. soldiers have died for no reason, 10's of thousands more are seriously injured.

Abortion numbers pale in comparison. And, they are not extracting money from you to pay for abortions.

Wars? You pay dearly for them.

You'd be surprised at the non-issues that people are willing to write off a candidate that they are in agreement with 80% of the time.

klamath
12-03-2009, 10:42 AM
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+New+Mexico+Maverick:+Gov.+Gary+Johnson,+libert arian+star.-a056899758



http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-107064682/abortion-ban-62-bills.html

+2 for Gary Johnson. Much like a "kill em all and let God sort em out" war monger that never starts a war. Actions speak louder than words. Edit -2 for his supporters and possible his future staff. No change overall.

klamath
12-03-2009, 10:49 AM
You'd be surprised at the non-issues that people are willing to write off a candidate that they are in agreement with 80% of the time.

Non issue Huh. Well like i always said the grassroots supporters turned off more people to RP than the campaign did and now it appears they are managing to do it with GJ. :mad:

RevolutionSD
12-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Not going to get into a abortion debate on this thread but abortion has killed muliple millions and the kill rate every day exceeds war deaths by far.

Link?

constituent
12-03-2009, 11:51 AM
Non issue Huh. Well like i always said the grassroots supporters turned off more people to RP than the campaign did and now it appears they are managing to do it with GJ. :mad:

Much like in 2007 when fox news was looking for any excuse to hate on RP (if it wasn't his "isolationism," or his "racism," it was his "followers."), we now see many RP supporters looking for any excuse to hate on Gary Johnson.

As an interesting aside, I wonder how much of an overlap there is between these folks and the fox audience contingency of the RP grassroots...

If we're not careful, we're going to find ourselves in a situation for 2012 where Fox News once again plays king maker.

AbolishTheGovt
12-03-2009, 01:38 PM
You left out a con on Gary J- doesn't oppose the income tax. :(

You keep going around and saying this but never providing any proof for this. The fact is, Gary Johnson has not said one way or another whether he supports abolishing the income tax. Wait until he makes his position clear on it and stop putting words into his mouth.

Brian4Liberty
12-03-2009, 01:44 PM
Having more than one Liberty candidate running increases the airtime Liberty is given and each candidate lends credibility to the other. The strongest horse will pull ahead and the Liberty activists will fall in line behind him/her.

Exactly. This is about critical mass. The more liberty candidates, the better. The vast majority of people base their opinion on the opinion of others and consensus. It's one of the reasons that the neo-cons loaded the debates last year. It's basic psychology.

Brian4Liberty
12-03-2009, 01:46 PM
He has introduced legislation defining a person at conception. He is pro-life and that is the reason I can support him so proudly. I cannot support someone who supports abortion.

Keep chasing that Red Herring! You may catch it one day! ;)

Meatwasp
12-03-2009, 01:59 PM
yawn yawn
I guess we can call this forum a Gary Johnson forum now. Goodby Ron your fairweather friends are leaving you.

Meatwasp
12-03-2009, 02:03 PM
Keep chasing that Red Herring! You may catch it one day! ;)

Maybe I'll catch one too and we can have a fish fry.