1 in 8 americans on food stamps

[BenIsForRon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/us/29foodstamps.html?_r=1

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Chinese and the Fed weren't pumping money into our economy, it would be impossible to maintain this.

[angelatc]

The stigma is gone, which I think is terrible. It's suddenly ok to be on the dole.

I was talking to my dry cleaner last week. She's this little Chinese lady. I found out she came to America with 1 baby. Right after she had her second baby, her husband died. They didn't have much money when he was alive, so after he died she was really poor. Barely spoke any English. Started working in a dry cleaner.

When her kids started going to school, they brought home several applications for the free lunch program. She repeatedly threw them away. Then the school called, asking her if she understood that she would probably qualify.

She told them to stop sending the forms, and she told her kids that they weren't allowed take handouts from anybody. They weren't entitled to live off of of other people.

She said her kids ate some very small sandwiches, but they ate their own sandwiches. Today one has graduated college, one is in college, (no government student loans either) and she owns the dry cleaner that hired her all those years ago.

Just having help available makes life too easy. I live in the state with the worst unemployment in the country, but nobody has come around offering to wash my car, paint my barn or rake my leaves. Why should they?

[Reason]

More Americans Depending on Food Stamps and Food Banks

More Americans are depending on food stamps and food banks, especially senior citizens. New government statistics show the number of seniors living alone who seek help from food pantries in the U.S. increased by 81 percent between 2006 and 2008. And the demand continues to increase. Catholic Charities USA reported a 54 percent increase in requests for food and services from seniors nationwide during the third quarter compared to the same period last year.

[Oyate]

These are extraordinary times. Hunger is expanding among people who really want to work and have pretty much the same values you do. We know if we pulled back from imperialist militarism we could have afforded these entitlements with no big sweat and they are a drop in the bucket compared to the bailouts.

I read an article recently dealing with charity food kitchens. In each one of them, people that used to volunteer there are now showing up to eat there. Especially among retirees. As times get tougher, hunger is gonna raise it's ugly head across this land like nothing seen by any living human alive today.

[Johnnybags]

If this were only enforced.

Generally ABAWDS between 18 and 50 who do not have any dependent children can get SNAP benefits only for 3 months in a 36-month period if they do not work or participate in a workfare or employment and training program other than job search. This requirement is waived in some locations.

With some exceptions, able-bodied adults between 16 and 60 must register for work, accept suitable employment, and take part in an employment and training program to which they are referred by the local office. Failure to comply with these requirements can result in disqualification from the Program.


The more you subsidize something the more you get, period. Noone cares!

[BillyDkid]

The stigma is gone, which I think is terrible. It's suddenly ok to be on the dole.

I was talking to my dry cleaner last week. She's this little Chinese lady. I found out she came to America with 1 baby. Right after she had her second baby, her husband died. They didn't have much money when he was alive, so after he died she was really poor. Barely spoke any English. Started working in a dry cleaner.

When her kids started going to school, they brought home several applications for the free lunch program. She repeatedly threw them away. Then the school called, asking her if she understood that she would probably qualify.

She told them to stop sending the forms, and she told her kids that they weren't allowed take handouts from anybody. They weren't entitled to live off of of other people.

She said her kids ate some very small sandwiches, but they ate their own sandwiches. Today one has graduated college, one is in college, (no government student loans either) and she owns the dry cleaner that hired her all those years ago.

Just having help available makes life too easy. I live in the state with the worst unemployment in the country, but nobody has come around offering to wash my car, paint my barn or rake my leaves. Why should they?I agree that welfare in general tends to cripple people and destroy societies and I too believe in the work ethic. On the other hand, we have a system in which a certain segment at the very top has the distinct privilege of skimming most of the cream off the top and their sons and daughters will never have to worry where their next meal or Mercedes is coming from and will never have to worry about keeping a roof over their heads - no matter what sort of lazy imbeciles they are. This has gone on for generations. Dubya would be a prime example.

I don't like (public) handouts and welfare anymore than the next guy, but that doesn't distract me from the fact that we have a privileged elite who do not and have never had to compete for survival in any sense and this is because of their proximity and access to the levers of power. Welfare moms are far down on my list compared to Goldman Sachs execs, for example, who have received hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer money. It is hard for me to get all moralistic about people pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps when this country is owned and run by a handful of people who will never have to.

[angelatc]

I agree that welfare in general tends to cripple people and destroy societies and I too believe in the work ethic. On the other hand, we have a system in which a certain segment at the very top has the distinct privilege of skimming most of the cream off the top and their sons and daughters will never have to worry where their next meal or Mercedes is coming from and will never have to worry about keeping a roof over their heads - no matter what sort of lazy imbeciles they are. This has gone on for generations. Dubya would be a prime example.


Not in my book. The money supply isn't finite. The amount of money that they have has nothing to do with how much I can make.

Screeching that it's not fair that some people are born into rich families doesn't help anybody get back to the workforce.

In fact, the middle class is a relatively recent creation. Before the industrial revolution, there were only two classes: rich and poor. There have always been rich people, there will always be rich people, and I'm probably never going to work hard enough to be a rich person.

That doesn't mean I should sit home sulking and sucking up welfare because George Bush is a wanker.

[Working Poor]

I want to know what would get me back into the work force? I am so tired of being broke.

I wish I was 20 years younger cause I really think it would make a difference. I am too old to compete with younger people and too young to retire. I can even get an appointment with the employment security commission for them to help me find a job. I have been to their office and they say they will call me. I look on their web site everyday for a job. None of the jobs I applied for have called me back. I used to go out everyday looking but these days I don't even have enough money to ride the bus much less put gas in a car. After about a year I just gave up going out to look.


I post ads at the local grocery store for baby sitting and odd jobs

I don't believe it is about being lazy not in my case at least....I want a job I want to work.:(

[angelatc]

I post ads at the local grocery store for baby sitting and odd jobs

I don't believe it is about being lazy not in my case at least....I want a job I want to work.:(

Oh yeah, the guy at the local subway says he gets 100 applications a week. Obviously people want to work. Unfortunately, all the capital we spend on supporting people who aren't working is money that would naturally flow into production and services if it wasn't artificially diverted.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Keep those printing presses going [sic]. This countries collapse is pretty much enivatable. We should be looking at the post-collapse model of Eastern Europe (Insomuch as to prevent total chaos). People will be looking for answers and all bets will be off. I suspect this will hit sometime in 2011.

Maybe we can be the example for the world again. I take solace in the fact that in the end, we will win. We have to be Misesian and never compromise.

[dannno]

Not in my book. The money supply isn't finite. The amount of money that they have has nothing to do with how much I can make.

Screeching that it's not fair that some people are born into rich families doesn't help anybody get back to the workforce.

In fact, the middle class is a relatively recent creation. Before the industrial revolution, there were only two classes: rich and poor. There have always been rich people, there will always be rich people, and I'm probably never going to work hard enough to be a rich person.

That doesn't mean I should sit home sulking and sucking up welfare because George Bush is a wanker.

Re-read the rest of BillyD's post. specifically:


Welfare moms are far down on my list compared to Goldman Sachs execs, for example, who have received hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer money. It is hard for me to get all moralistic about people pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps when this country is owned and run by a handful of people who will never have to.

Perspective, please.... perspective.. how can you get down on some welfare mom who is taking just enough crumbs to survive when we have executives who are rich NOT because of the free market, but because they essentially STOLE the money from the middle class and the poor, and they are taking disproportionately more than any poor person.. He isn't talking about people who are rich because they worked hard, he is talking about people who are that much more rich because it was given to them at the expense of us. They are the target we need to focus on, poor people are a distraction. The best thing we can do for them is take the power away from the elite, because the poor people are not in power, they can't do anything about much of anything, except maybe wash your car or paint your house or something, as you mentioned.. but that doesn't solve the real problem we have.

[Meatwasp]

The stigma is gone, which I think is terrible. It's suddenly ok to be on the dole.

I was talking to my dry cleaner last week. She's this little Chinese lady. I found out she came to America with 1 baby. Right after she had her second baby, her husband died. They didn't have much money when he was alive, so after he died she was really poor. Barely spoke any English. Started working in a dry cleaner.

When her kids started going to school, they brought home several applications for the free lunch program. She repeatedly threw them away. Then the school called, asking her if she understood that she would probably qualify.

She told them to stop sending the forms, and she told her kids that they weren't allowed take handouts from anybody. They weren't entitled to live off of of other people.

She said her kids ate some very small sandwiches, but they ate their own
sandwiches. Today one has graduated college, one is in college, (no government

student loans either) and she owns the dry cleaner that hired her all those years

ago.

Just having help available makes life too easy. I live in the state with the worst unemployment in the country, but nobody has come around offering to wash my car, paint my barn or rake my leaves. Why should they?

She kept her integrity too. She should be proud. Thank you for this story

[LibertyEagle]

Re-read the rest of BillyD's post. specifically:

Perspective, please.... perspective.. how can you get down on some welfare mom who is taking just enough crumbs to survive when we have executives who are rich NOT because of the free market, but because they essentially STOLE the money from the middle class and the poor, and they are taking disproportionately more than any poor person.. He isn't talking about people who are rich because they worked hard, he is talking about people who are that much more rich because it was given to them at the expense of us. They are the target we need to focus on, poor people are a distraction. The best thing we can do for them is take the power away from the elite, because the poor people are not in power, they can't do anything about much of anything, except maybe wash your car or paint your house or something, as you mentioned.. but that doesn't solve the real problem we have.

Why wouldn't the same principle apply to both? You do not take what belongs to someone else.

[Oyate]

Why wouldn't the same principle apply to both? You do not take what belongs to someone else.

I think it does and I think danno would agree. The system is patently unfair. I think danno is pointing out the irony of complaining about dribbling welfare entitlements when we're pouring money into Wall St.

I'll extend this argument. In a sense, people getting food stamps due to unemployment these days aren't taking from you any more than they are taking from themselves. They paid into these programs with taxes from day one just like you did. They paid in according to the law and now the law says they can take something back out. Don't like it? I guess that's why we're trying to change laws.

I would submit that bringing this to a public already hungry and outraged at the depredations of capitalism might demonstrate a certain lack of timing.....

[BenIsForRon]

I would submit that bringing this to a public already hungry and outraged at the depredations of capitalism might demonstrate a certain lack of timing.....

+1. We'll deal with welfare when the time comes, which to me means that it shouldn't even be on the radar when it comes time to slash government spending.

The reason I posted the story is that even I was surprised at how far this recession has already gone. 1 out of every 8 people you see on a given day needs money from the government in order to eat. It creates a sense of urgency.

[Oyate]

In my town, any post to Craigslist about a barn needing painting will result in a dozen calls in the first hour and dozens more every hour until you take the post down. Ditto leaf raking.

In my town every retailer has dozens of people asking for jobs a day.

In my town there are guys combing the neighbourhoods in pickup trucks asking if they can cart away any kind of scrap metal. They will also take scrap lumber, firewood, anything that burns. There are people who will come and take your beer and soda cans. People doing babysitting and making tamales out of their homes.

I live in a state with 40% reduction in the construction trades and that was about 35% of our overall economy. The state is packed to the gills with guys in trucks with full tools, experienced and ready to go crazy. People who have worked hard all their lives.

I guess I should tell them to become Chinese ladies and work in a drycleaner's because there's shit for opportunity here. Perhaps it's the fact that everybody wears bluejeans out here and we just don't have enough drycleaners.

[dannno]

Why wouldn't the same principle apply to both? You do not take what belongs to someone else.

Yes, in principle it's bad form.. but in reality what you have is the Fed and IRS created in 1913, stealing the wealth from poor people for decades before any real form of socialism for the poor. This was done specifically to make the rich and well connected richer and the poor poorer than had our economy worked on its own. So I have some sympathy for poor people because they are a direct byproduct of corporate socialism.

What we are trying to say is that what the well connected rich are doing to get richer is much more immoral than the poor taking what they need to survive... It's not an attack on people who happen to be wealthy because they worked hard.

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Welfare systems destroy democracies, in the next decade or two the Republican party will be forced to drop all opposition to welfare just as conservative parties had to do all over Europe once people got hooked on the 'safety net' of Social Welfare. Then you will be left with two parties squabbling over who can administer the system better.

[Oyate]

Welfare systems destroy democracies,

Yeah but we're a republic. We don't care what happens to democracies. Of course, they destroy republics too.


in the next decade or two the Republican party will be forced to drop all opposition to welfare just as conservative parties had to do all over Europe once people got hooked on the 'safety net' of Social Welfare.

Well they never had any opposition to corporate welfare or military welfare so I'd guess you are right.


Then you will be left with two parties squabbling over who can administer the system better.

At least that much will stay the same ;)

[BillyDkid]

Not in my book. The money supply isn't finite. The amount of money that they have has nothing to do with how much I can make.

Screeching that it's not fair that some people are born into rich families doesn't help anybody get back to the workforce.

In fact, the middle class is a relatively recent creation. Before the industrial revolution, there were only two classes: rich and poor. There have always been rich people, there will always be rich people, and I'm probably never going to work hard enough to be a rich person.

That doesn't mean I should sit home sulking and sucking up welfare because George Bush is a wanker.That is not what I am saying - that some people are born rich. I'm all for people getting and being rich. I am talking about - as I think I clearly said - a certain select minority who have become entrenched by virtue of their access to the levers of power. The bailouts of the big brokerage houses and banks is a prime example of this. We do not have a free market and we do not have capitalism. We have a system specifically designed to serve the interests of a ruling elite.

[Matt Collins]

Here is a fascinating map which details the unemployment by county over time in the US:
http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html (http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html)