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View Full Version : Algae Farms Real Answer to Fuel Alternative and Carbon Emissions Problem




Magicman
11-24-2009, 01:43 PM
YouTube - ALGAE -- THE HOLY GRAIL OF BIOFUEL? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyoKTbxerpQ)

squarepusher
11-24-2009, 01:49 PM
awesome

Magicman
11-24-2009, 01:51 PM
^

Thanks. Algae is a miracle from God. The British used to call it 'pond scum' yet it is far more effective for humanity then even oil. I will be so happy the day that they implement this.

Magicman
11-24-2009, 01:56 PM
Quote from Clip - If we took 1/10 of the state of New Mexico and used it for Algae Production we could supply the ENTIRE United States with oil.

WOW!

BenIsForRon
11-24-2009, 01:57 PM
Looks promising. It will require many years and many billions of dollars worth of investment, but if we can get the infrastructure up and running, it will be worth it.

jmdrake
11-24-2009, 02:01 PM
^

Thanks. Algae is a miracle from God. The British used to call it 'pond scum' yet it is far more effective for humanity then even oil. I will be so happy the day that they implement this.

Don't hold your breath waiting on "them". The algae - biodiesal solution has been around for over a decade. But "they" can't make nearly as much money or gain as much power as they could be implementing a carbon tax. Really there is no "carbon emissions problem" and "they" know it. Rather I would suggest looking at how you can as an individual tap into this technology to free yourself, family and community without having to rely on "them".

jmdrake
11-24-2009, 02:13 PM
Looks promising. It will require many years and many billions of dollars worth of investment, but if we can get the infrastructure up and running, it will be worth it.

And that's the problem with trusting "them" for a solution. A technology that could be used to free the individual instead requires a "collective" investment of billions of dollars for "infrastructure" etc. Rather than setting environmentalism against individualism, the two could work hand if it's about freeing the individual from both the Al Gores of the world and the Exxons of the world. (Actually they are one in the same. Al Gore is an oil man).

Here's a site that stresses environmentalism from an individual point of view.

http://www.journeytoforever.org

fisharmor
11-24-2009, 02:43 PM
The claim that sequestering carbon dioxide this way is something beneficial is WRONG.
It's not removing it from the atmosphere, it's converting it into the lipids - which then get BURNED and release carbon monoxide and smog back into the atmosphere.
So it's taking a beneficial gas necessary for plant life and turning it into pollution.
Great idea.

Also, don't get really excited because you can really tell it's a temporary setup - those bags should be lexan pipe, the pumps are obviously not geared for working conditions (gee whiz that's a lot of noise), all that PVC would be stainless steel if it were for production... etc. I think this is video of a proof of concept that some company is probably going to use to troll for investors.

I'd also be interested in seeing how the market would play out if they can truly custom design the fuels. Think of it this way: the only reason we don't all have cars that burn 98 octane gas is because it's so expensive. If 98 were the same price as 87, you bet we'd all be driving performance engines.

That's the truly cool part of the video, for me anyway: if it's just as economical to produce high quality fuels, then the cars will rapidly change to follow suit.

BenIsForRon
11-24-2009, 03:00 PM
And that's the problem with trusting "them" for a solution. A technology that could be used to free the individual instead requires a "collective" investment of billions of dollars for "infrastructure" etc. Rather than setting environmentalism against individualism, the two could work hand if it's about freeing the individual from both the Al Gores of the world and the Exxons of the world. (Actually they are one in the same. Al Gore is an oil man).

Here's a site that stresses environmentalism from an individual point of view.

http://www.journeytoforever.org

It seems to me that the equipment needed for these reactors require industrial production. There were lots of pumps, tanks, nutrients, and other materials. I'm saying, to make all that stuff economical in the future, you're going to need lots of investment now. A lot of the stuff that they're using can't be produced on a local scale. For the same reasons you don't have a local car manufacturer.

jmdrake
11-24-2009, 03:13 PM
It seems to me that the equipment needed for these reactors require industrial production. There were lots of pumps, tanks, nutrients, and other materials. I'm saying, to make all that stuff economical in the future, you're going to need lots of investment now. A lot of the stuff that they're using can't be produced on a local scale. For the same reasons you don't have a local car manufacturer.

All that's in the video are some plastic bags, some plastic tanks, some tubing and some pumps. The only "trade secret" are the strains of algae being used. You could do this in your barn. You can also do pond algae, it just won't be efficient.

As for the reason you don't have a local car manufacturer, that all goes back to crippling government regulation. Over the holidays rent "Tucker: A man and his dream" from Netflix or some other outlet to see what I mean.

I seem to recall you live on a farm. Have you even looked into producing your own fuel? It's not as hard as you think. Again for more information go to:

http://www.journeytoforever.org

Dionysus
11-24-2009, 03:19 PM
Plants love CO2! In fact, it occurred to me that increasing CO2 in the atmosphere might actually simply cause a bonanza in ocean plant-life, which would in turn cause a bonanza in ocean life. We may never know cause all the real scientists are being beat up by the quacks at the U of East Anglia, also known as the crappiest pseudo-science warehouse/whorehouse in Europe.

Magicman
11-24-2009, 05:03 PM
All that's in the video are some plastic bags, some plastic tanks, some tubing and some pumps. The only "trade secret" are the strains of algae being used. You could do this in your barn. You can also do pond algae, it just won't be efficient.

As for the reason you don't have a local car manufacturer, that all goes back to crippling government regulation. Over the holidays rent "Tucker: A man and his dream" from Netflix or some other outlet to see what I mean.

I seem to recall you live on a farm. Have you even looked into producing your own fuel? It's not as hard as you think. Again for more information go to:

http://www.journeytoforever.org

Right, this doesn't cost billions of dollars for production. There only talking about the Trade Secrets. There is books that are explaining how to make it all you need is a farm no scratch that all you need is a pool.

Video: How to make Biodiesel Fuel

YouTube - Make Algae Biodiesel at Home (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nf3M68S3ec)


Look at this there are even books showing how to make it at home

http://www.making-biodiesel-books.com

tangent4ronpaul
11-24-2009, 05:28 PM
They are a R&D outfit and they do more than research algae fuels.

http://www.valcent.net/s/Home.asp

-t

tangent4ronpaul
11-24-2009, 05:41 PM
Pond-Powered Biofuels: Turning Algae into America's New Energy
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4213775.html

15 Algae Startups Bringing Pond Scum to Fuel Tanks
http://earth2tech.com/2008/03/27/15-algae-startups-bringing-pond-scum-to-fuel-tanks/

Algae Biofuels: From Pond Scum to Jet Fuel
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/09/algae-biofuels-from-pond-scum-to-jet-fuel

Algae Primer - university white paper covering basics (technical) and roadmap to the literature.
http://www.robertstrausscenter.org/files/research/CleanTX%20Forum%20Algae%20Primer%2019%20Nov%202008 .pdf

-t

dannno
11-24-2009, 06:08 PM
Plants love CO2! In fact, it occurred to me that increasing CO2 in the atmosphere might actually simply cause a bonanza in ocean plant-life, which would in turn cause a bonanza in ocean life. We may never know cause all the real scientists are being beat up by the quacks at the U of East Anglia, also known as the crappiest pseudo-science warehouse/whorehouse in Europe.

Ya they actually say that CO2 is killing the ocean, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that just isn't true. The theory is that the CO2 and the ocean produce carbonic acid, so the ocean is becoming more acidic due to CO2. I'll bet it's becoming more acidic from all of our non-CO2 industrial pollution if anything.

tangent4ronpaul
11-24-2009, 06:11 PM
DoE technical report on algae program (328p)
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/fy98/24190.pdf

-t

Deborah K
11-24-2009, 06:20 PM
hmmm....this might be something worth investing in....

tangent4ronpaul
11-24-2009, 06:27 PM
hmmm....this might be something worth investing in....

quite possibly - but are you referring to the 15 startups (stock) or a home setup? If the latter, I don't think the ebooks are worth it. The 2 technical reports I linked to should get you started and give you a roadmap to the literature.

$100 for a pdf file is a bit "steep"...

-t

lester1/2jr
11-24-2009, 06:27 PM
deborah- depends what you mean by invest. I'm a trader and have shares of BEHL, an algae based fuel company and it hasn't moved in a while.

alternative energy is basically on life support right now.



http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BEHL.PK

Deborah K
11-24-2009, 06:29 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I shall ponder it.

tangent4ronpaul
11-24-2009, 06:57 PM
List of Algae culture collections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_algal_culture_collections

You need a algae with a high lipid content. Any old algae just won't do - though you might get lucky...


VCTZF is the ticker for the stock the original post was about. it's swung from 3 cents to 6.40 in the last year and is currently at 89 cents.

-t

Zippyjuan
11-24-2009, 06:58 PM
I know it is still more in experimental stages but does anybody know how many gallons of water you need to produce one gallon of fuel from algae? We consume about seven billion barrels of oil a year and at 42 gallons per barrel that comes out to roughly 300 billion gallons of oil. In terms of gasoline, we burn up 378 million gallons a day http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_home#tab2 or 137 million gallons.

You would need a supply of water for that- in addition to its current uses. Urban per capita water usage is about 137 gallons per person per day (1998 usage accoding to Wiki). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_United_States

Grimnir Wotansvolk
11-24-2009, 06:59 PM
not entirely on topic, but I've always wondered about the possibility of using bioluminescent algae to light our cities

http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010401.html

http://images-0.redbubble.net/img/art/size:large/view:main/2446197-3-bioluminescence-under-the-southern-sky.jpg

Dionysus
11-24-2009, 07:14 PM
not entirely on topic, but I've always wondered about the possibility of using bioluminescent algae to light our cities

http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010401.html

http://images-0.redbubble.net/img/art/size:large/view:main/2446197-3-bioluminescence-under-the-southern-sky.jpg

Thought criminal! Even though there is energy literally everywhere, you must only get electricity from your friendly power corp which burns massive amounts of oil/coal to turn a steam turbine and then transmits it thousands of miles to your home.

If you lasso a donkey to a generator which consists of wire and magnets, you are evil.

Dionysus
11-24-2009, 07:16 PM
http://www.scienceclarified.com/images/uesc_04_img0221.jpg

Here's what you need to make electricity. Too bad we live in dumb dumb land.

lester1/2jr
11-25-2009, 02:04 PM
tangent
VCTZF is the ticker for the stock the original post was about. it's swung from 3 cents to 6.40 in the last year and is currently at 89 cents.

yikes. that's extremely volitile. if you bought a thousand shares at 6 dollars a share it would have cost you 6 thousand and now that 6 thousand would be 890 dollars!

Magicman
11-25-2009, 07:32 PM
Bump

jmdrake
11-25-2009, 07:40 PM
I know it is still more in experimental stages but does anybody know how many gallons of water you need to produce one gallon of fuel from algae? We consume about seven billion barrels of oil a year and at 42 gallons per barrel that comes out to roughly 300 billion gallons of oil. In terms of gasoline, we burn up 378 million gallons a day http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_home#tab2 or 137 million gallons.

You would need a supply of water for that- in addition to its current uses. Urban per capita water usage is about 137 gallons per person per day (1998 usage accoding to Wiki). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_United_States

Biofuel algae can be grown on wastewater.

silverhandorder
11-25-2009, 08:08 PM
Last I checked they were unprofitable. Did something change?

Magicman
11-26-2009, 01:26 PM
Bump

BlackTerrel
11-26-2009, 09:11 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting on "them". The algae - biodiesal solution has been around for over a decade. But "they" can't make nearly as much money or gain as much power as they could be implementing a carbon tax. Really there is no "carbon emissions problem" and "they" know it. Rather I would suggest looking at how you can as an individual tap into this technology to free yourself, family and community without having to rely on "them".

If it's so simple why doesn't another country develop it? Seems like it would be a huge revenue source for whichever nation could pull it off.

jmdrake
11-26-2009, 09:25 PM
If it's so simple why doesn't another country develop it? Seems like it would be a huge revenue source for whichever nation could pull it off.

1) Such a government would have to deal with entrenched interests from its own energy sector.

2) Governments are inherently inefficient.

People are already doing this at a small individual level. No need to build up "infrastructure" to transport the stuff to market. No worries about a sudden drop in the price of oil undercutting some multi-billion dollar investment. It's just like hybrids. Individuals were building hybrids that got 70 MPG back in the 1970s. But getting them to market required overcoming a lot of inertia.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1979-07-01/Electric-Car-Conversion.aspx

Besides, most vehicles don't use diesel. Why build up multibillion dollar biodiesal infrastructure if you can't sell it to most cars today and the cars tomorrow might be all electric? My wife and I were looking at cars tonight. Telsa motors has a family sedan that should be available late 2011 - early 2012 that's reasonably priced (under 50K), seats 7 (5 adults and 2 children) and "fills up" on $4.00 of electricity.

Regards,

John M. Drake

jmdrake
11-26-2009, 09:30 PM
List of Algae culture collections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_algal_culture_collections

You need a algae with a high lipid content. Any old algae just won't do - though you might get lucky...


VCTZF is the ticker for the stock the original post was about. it's swung from 3 cents to 6.40 in the last year and is currently at 89 cents.

-t

Hmmm....I wonder how that stock price tracked versus the price of oil? Another reason why this should be done on an individual scale. While the price of fuel has dropped from its peak, it's still high especially compared to the price of oil. Becoming personally energy independent is good even if you aren't saving as much as you would when gas prices peaked. And if we don't defeat crap and tax (it's looking good that we might) prices would double and maybe even triple even if oil prices stay down.

Zippyjuan
11-27-2009, 12:28 AM
Biofuel algae can be grown on wastewater.
"Wastewater" is still not usually thrown away. It is sent downstream to the next town or farm for cleaning and use. If you are making biofuel from algae in Pittsburg or wherever you will be getting your water to produce it from the municipal source most likely. According to Wiki, contaminants in waste water can lead to lower yields from the algae cultivation so you need clean water, purified CO2, and quality nutrients to get maximum yield- sounds like lots of processing (energy use) the inputs for this system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

Nutrients like nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), and potassium (K), are important for plant growth and are essential parts of fertilizer. Silica and iron, as well as several trace elements, may also be considered important marine nutrients as the lack of one can limit the growth of, or productivity in, an area.[37]

One company, Green Star Products, announced their development of a micronutrient formula to increase the growth rate of algae. According to the company, its formula can increase the daily growth rate by 34% and can double the amount of algae produced in one growth cycle.[38]

[edit] Wastewater
Main article: Wastewater treatment facility
A possible nutrient source is waste water from the treatment of sewage, agricultural, or flood plain run-off, all currently major pollutants and health risks. However, this waste water cannot feed algae directly and must first be processed by bacteria, through anaerobic digestion. If waste water is not processed before it reaches the algae, it will contaminate the algae in the reactor, and at the very least, kill much of the desired algae strain. In biogas facilities, organic waste is often converted to a mixture of carbon dioxide, methane, and organic fertilizer. Organic fertilizer that comes out of digester is liquid, and nearly suitable for algae growth, but it must first be cleaned and sterilized.

The utilization of wastewater and ocean water instead of freshwater is strongly advocated due to the continuing depletion of freshwater resources. However, heavy metals, trace metals, and other contaminants in wastewater can decrease the ability of cells to produce lipids biosynthetically and also impact various other workings in the machinery of cells. The same is true for ocean water, but the contaminants are found in different concentrations. Thus, agricultural-grade fertilizer is the preferred source of nutrients, but heavy metals are again a problem, especially for strains of algae that are susceptible to these metals. In open pond systems the use of strains of algae that can deal with high concentrations of heavy metals could prevent other organisms from infesting these systems (Schenk et al. 2008).



But other biodiesel fuels have similar problems. It can be a part of a solution to our energy needs- there is no single solution to replace everything we use petroleum for.

jmdrake
11-27-2009, 11:10 AM
"Wastewater" is still not usually thrown away. It is sent downstream to the next town or farm for cleaning and use. If you are making biofuel from algae in Pittsburg or wherever you will be getting your water to produce it from the municipal source most likely. According to Wiki, contaminants in waste water can lead to lower yields from the algae cultivation so you need clean water, purified CO2, and quality nutrients to get maximum yield- sounds like lots of processing (energy use) the inputs for this system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel


But other biodiesel fuels have similar problems. It can be a part of a solution to our energy needs- there is no single solution to replace everything we use petroleum for.

We've got more freshwater than we know what to do with. I'm being charged extra on my water bill to pay for "runoff treatment" even I'm not on a sewer. Plus "lower yields" due to wastewater contaminants do not mean no yields. Using algae to clean up wastewater makes the entire process cheaper and would be worth it even if there wasn't the biofuel benefit. And when you press the algae to get the oil out you can recover a lot of the water anyway. Non issue.

I do agree that no single solution should replace everything. That's why this needs to be left up to individualism and the free market.

Regards,

John M. Drake

krazy kaju
11-27-2009, 12:09 PM
Last I checked they were unprofitable. Did something change?

I would like to know the answer to this question too.

ronpaulhawaii
11-27-2009, 12:29 PM
This Company http://www.aquaticenergy.com/about_aquatic_energy.htm was started by RP supporter David Johnson, (who picked me up 2 days after the first bike-ride and brought me to OLFD). When we were together he had already started a Maryland refinery using chicken farm scraps, and was leasing fallow rice paddies in Louisiana for testing algae based fuels... Looks like he is moving along. :)

lester1/2jr
11-27-2009, 01:06 PM
oil will have to go back to 150 a barrel for these to catch on

Magicman
11-27-2009, 01:43 PM
This guy made a video about using recycled water bottles making algae biofuel

YouTube - An Algae Bioreactor from Recycled Water Bottles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsQCj_PaWN0&feature=related)

Magicman
11-27-2009, 02:04 PM
Hey guys, can anyone find any FREE documentation that explains how to do everything from cultivation, finding algae strains, to making your own bioreactor?

Zippyjuan
11-27-2009, 02:55 PM
We've got more freshwater than we know what to do with. I'm being charged extra on my water bill to pay for "runoff treatment" even I'm not on a sewer. Plus "lower yields" due to wastewater contaminants do not mean no yields. Using algae to clean up wastewater makes the entire process cheaper and would be worth it even if there wasn't the biofuel benefit. And when you press the algae to get the oil out you can recover a lot of the water anyway. Non issue.

I do agree that no single solution should replace everything. That's why this needs to be left up to individualism and the free market.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Send some our way- we in SoCal are under water restrictions due to shortages. This effects California agriculture (some of your food) along with cities. Lower yields means higher costs to produce the same amount of potential fuel. Paying for "runoff treatment" does not necessarily mean there is s surplus of water. That means that the water may end up being used by someone else.

Old Ducker
11-27-2009, 03:32 PM
Hey guys, can anyone find any FREE documentation that explains how to do everything from cultivation, finding algae strains, to making your own bioreactor?

I'm curious what the typical residence or dwell time is from the initial introduction of algae until such growth that it's ready for further processing.

Magicman
11-27-2009, 04:51 PM
^

It takes a full season to harvest corn for oil purposes, and it ONLY takes 2 days to harvest Algae. Algae production grows per acre further then any other production on the market. So, its the most efficient oil right now on the market and could turn third world countries reliance on oil become much more stable in production. It will help the poor tremendously, also farmers can reuse the algae to give to their livestock. It also produces oxygen to sustain local plant life which is great for farmers, and does not cause pollution like fossil fuels do.

YouTube - Next Big Bio-Fuel - ALGAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9_-ZguuhBw)

jonahtrainer
11-27-2009, 04:56 PM
Send some our way- we in SoCal are under water restrictions due to shortages. This effects California agriculture (some of your food) along with cities. Lower yields means higher costs to produce the same amount of potential fuel. Paying for "runoff treatment" does not necessarily mean there is s surplus of water. That means that the water may end up being used by someone else.

All cause of that stupid little minnow. I think most of CA's water problems are self-inflicted from Sacramento.

Old Ducker
11-27-2009, 05:09 PM
^

It takes a full season to harvest corn for oil purposes, and it ONLY takes 2 days to harvest Algae. Algae production grows per acre further then any other production on the market. So, its the most efficient oil right now on the market and could turn third world countries reliance on oil become much more stable in production. It will help the poor tremendously, also farmers can reuse the algae to give to their livestock. It also produces oxygen to sustain local plant life which is great for farmers, and does not cause pollution like fossil fuels do.

YouTube - Next Big Bio-Fuel - ALGAE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9_-ZguuhBw)

Ok, I'll assume 20 hrs, using peak daylight. Now I wonder what are the economics of using artificial lighting during off hrs vs twice the capital and maintence cost?

Magicman
11-27-2009, 05:19 PM
Ok, I'll assume 20 hrs, using peak daylight. Now I wonder what are the economics of using artificial lighting during off hrs vs twice the capital and maintence cost?

Thats a good question, you'd have to compare outdoor algae farms with the indoor production companies that have to pay for the articial lighting, pumps, and some use presses.

Also, I haven't found any info that compares the two yet on rates. There are some companies which charge a lot for bioreactors but that term is loose because there are so many different ways to contain the algae (some are indoor, others are outdoors) that saying one over the another depends on the costs.

Old Ducker
11-27-2009, 06:07 PM
Thats a good question, you'd have to compare outdoor algae farms with the indoor production companies that have to pay for the articial lighting, pumps, and some use presses.

Also, I haven't found any info that compares the two yet on rates. There are some companies which charge a lot for bioreactors but that term is loose because there are so many different ways to contain the algae (some are indoor, others are outdoors) that saying one over the another depends on the costs.

Im curious because I have an idea for a bioreactor but I suspect it wouldnt be cost competitive.

MN Patriot
11-27-2009, 06:17 PM
Plants love CO2! In fact, it occurred to me that increasing CO2 in the atmosphere might actually simply cause a bonanza in ocean plant-life, which would in turn cause a bonanza in ocean life. We may never know cause all the real scientists are being beat up by the quacks at the U of East Anglia, also known as the crappiest pseudo-science warehouse/whorehouse in Europe.

Here is a potential solution to the "problem" of CO2 in the atmosphere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_fertilization

"Iron fertilization is the intentional introduction of iron to the upper ocean to stimulate a phytoplankton bloom. This is intended to enhance biological productivity, which can benefit the marine food chain and sequester carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. "

If Al Gore and his mind numbed robots were serious about reducing CO2, they would be doing more research into iron fertilization. It has potential.

legion
11-27-2009, 06:25 PM
Don't invest in this nonsense it's a pump and dump stock scam.

Fuel from algae is not a viable technology and probably won't ever be. If you feel like throwing your money away, go ahead.

Magicman
11-27-2009, 06:54 PM
^

Are you serious? The earth was told we were flat too! Please make an argument with a case before throwing insults.

Magicman
11-27-2009, 06:59 PM
Im curious because I have an idea for a bioreactor but I suspect it wouldnt be cost competitive.

What type of idea? How do you want to setup. Do you own a farm, a pool or are looking to build a bioreactor indoors?

I'm currently looking for a press. Most presses cost thousands, however I found one that cost a couple hundred. I just don't know if it will work yet with algae. When I find one that is cheap and viable I'll post it. Besides that all you need is sunlight or fluorescent lighting and some type of air pump to give it oxygen.

So, besides manufacturing the plant with the bioreactors you need a press to extract it. Professionals are going to use a good press ranging from $1,500 to $9,000. However, we might find one that is for home use for a couple hundred.

I think it's possible to not pay for gas ever again by spending a couple hundred on investment.

Old Ducker
11-27-2009, 07:29 PM
What type of idea? How do you want to setup. Do you own a farm, a pool or are looking to build a bioreactor indoors?

I'm currently looking for a press. Most presses cost thousands, however I found one that cost a couple hundred. I just don't know if it will work yet with algae. When I find one that is cheap and viable I'll post it. Besides that all you need is sunlight or fluorescent lighting and some type of air pump to give it oxygen.

So, besides manufacturing the plant with the bioreactors you need a press to extract it. Professionals are going to use a good press ranging from $1,500 to $9,000. However, we might find one that is for home use for a couple hundred.

In regards to presses, u could build your own. I suggest u do a bit of research on traditional japanese press designs for use in making soy sauce. I havent seen one in some years but bascially its just a bunch of stacked boxes with a central press plate thats either screw or hydraulically driven.
Perhaps a small cider press, of a squeezebox design, such as is made by Goodnature Products Co. would do as well.

I think it's possible to not pay for gas ever again by spending a couple hundred on investment.

Unfortunately it's proprietary. I'll just say I have a lot of experience with extended liquid holding methods that involve non-condenseable gases. At this point I'm just at the curiosity stage as I have other commitments, but what I am thinking of would be for industrial use.

legion
11-27-2009, 07:55 PM
^

Are you serious? The earth was told we were flat too! Please make an argument with a case before throwing insults.

No. I don't owe you an explanation. This idea is not viable.

Show me a plant producing more than 1 gallon of usable fuel per acre per year that has been verified by an outside expert. You can't because they don't exist.

The entire industry is a stock share selling scam.

Magicman
11-27-2009, 08:39 PM
^

Then why the hell would ALL those people be making this up? What would they have to gain?

I can find a dozen videos / documents / algae makers pointing out how viable this really is and how many acres this can actually handle. I'll trust actual makers of algae over someone anyday who cannot produce any facts to his argument.

Where can you find any evidence of what algae can handle that supports your claim?

FACT: It ONLY takes 2 days to grow algae, what other plant can come near that amount of time? Therefore it produces faster then the next highest yield which is Oil Palm. It's FAR economically viable then corn. Can you answer that rationally since you brought up it being unviable? I doubt you can.

So let me guess Exxon must be one of those non-experts who is investing money in a non-viable alternative?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/business/energy-environment/14fuel.html



According to Exxon, algae could yield more than 2,000 gallons of fuel per acre of production each year, compared with 650 gallons for palm trees and 450 gallons for sugar canes. Corn yields just 250 gallons per acre a year.



Keep trying though you can't even bring up any facts to your argument.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Biodiesel_from_Algae_Oil

Oil Yield
■Cultivating Algae for Liquid Fuel Production
Gallons of Oil per Acre per Year

Corn . . . . . . . 15

Soybeans . . . .48

Safflower. . . . . 83

Sunflower . . . 102

Rapeseed. . . 127

Oil Palm . . . . 635

Micro Algae . .1850 [based on actual biomass yields]

Micro Algae . .5000-15000 [theoretical laboratory yield]

legion
11-27-2009, 09:14 PM
The maximum theoretical yield of biofuel in the US is 27 000 gallons per acre.

That's not what i asked for. I asked for an example of a production plant that is producing more than 1 gallon per acre. There aren't any because its not economical to produce this fuel.

Exxon is participating in an r&d effort which may yield results after 10 years. Anybody working in this field that is not a scam artist makes it clear that their efforts are in R&D, not in production. This is not ready for production.

Maybe there will be some breakthrough in the production of algal oil without contamination, and maybe some breakthroughs will happen in the extraction of this oil from the algae, but we aren't there yet.

In fact, the video you posted is from a funny bussines stock selling company called Valcent Products. They are financing all their R&D using investor equity which means they have a low level of confidence that their systems will work, if the company is not a complete scam, which it may be.

Magicman
11-28-2009, 10:51 AM
I think you're beating around the Bush, and your questions have already been answered. Exxon said they clearly can yield more then 1 acre in their statistics along with the second example you ignored they can produce up to 2000 per acre. Why would they go into algae if it can only yield 1 acre? That makes absolutely no sense. The R&D effort is based on production. Why wouldn't they be investing in a product that could yield high amounts of oil. There firm is looking for ways to boost oil production which answered your question, the article clearly states that. Your doing a good job of twisting the article to suite your needs.


Venter's previous firm, Celera Genomics, was a key player in sequencing the human genome. Synthetic Genomics is looking at, among other approaches, the use of tweaked metabolic pathways in algae to boost the plant's oil production.

We're are you getting your facts from that they aren't capable of doing it in 10 years? Logical fallacy - They didn't state any reason so your making false conclusions. For all you know they'd rather keep fossil fuels atm and it would take awhile for a transition, alternatively that does not affect plants that are currently already transitioning such as Algaelake who are proving even more effective means by using gravity fed bioreactors. Have you ever bothered to look at what they use to make the algae; it's not rocket science. It doesn't take a huge amount of time to make all the investments for a plant as there are already plants that are linked below that are doing this. You can't base Exxon's inability to start production on that because they provided no example of why there incapable.

Otherwise, EVERY single Algae makers has been making similar claims; if you want to refute that then you're crying out a conspiracy that ALL of these algae makers are wrong which is ridiculous. There some companies I provided that are averaging over 20,000 to 30,000 acres per year of algae production. There are some companies that are claiming to be even higher then that and it all depends on how your raising the livestock.

There are gravity fed photobioreactor and this is what they had to say:


"Our vertical gravity fed bioreactor system has minimum energy requirements and will produce over 160 times more product than pond or raceway systems per acre."

This more then answers your question, a plant that produces algae is capable of yielding thousands below in this link.

http://www.algaecake.com/technologies.html


Algae Biomass for Biodiesel Feed Stock

Biodiesel is the most sought after alternative liquid fuel these days. Since biodiesel is produced from vegetable oil or animal fat, it eliminates large point sources of pollution as seen in various stages from mining to refining of fossil fuels. Biodiesel also has the advantage of low emissions. Large scale biodiesel production will Increase agricultural activities which, in turn, will lower atmospheric carbon dioxide levels.

Despite all positive signs, biodiesel production from current feed stocks has its own disadvantages. Annual oil yield of traditional oil crops varies from 18 gallons per acre to 635 gallons per acre. To produce enough oil to replace a part of fossil oil in current use requires extensive cultivation on millions of acres of land, competing with agricultural and grazing lands, resulting in both food scarcity and price hike.

This is where micro algae cultivation becomes relevant. Many species of micro algae have high lipid content. Current theoretical estimates based on existing growth equipment and technologies show that algae can yield up to 20,000 gallon oil per acre annually.

In natural habitats growth and reproduction of algae colonies are limited by various factors like light penetration, availability of dissolved nutrients and gases, pH levels of water etc. To overcome these limitations, algae is commercially grown in photo bioreactors.

Photo bioreactor equipment grow photosynthetic micro organisms like algae to providing an optimum growth environment for the colony. All existing photo bioreactors have their own limitations addressing the unique behavior of algae cells. For this reason, no bioreactor system or growth technology is yet known to have achieved the above theoretical yield. Although most bioreactors perform well in laboratories, they usually end up with scaling issues. It is into this void Algaecake Tech. Corp. intends to place itself with our patent pending bioreactor design and growth technology.


Algaecake Technologies Corporation:

Established 2006, Algaecake Technologies Corporation has been actively involved in research and development of producing algae at a commercial scale. Our patent pending algae photo bioreactor and growth technology is simply the next generation source of liquid fuel. Apart from providing a commercially viable alternative to fossil fuels, our achievement is beyond the normal concepts of climate control and sustainability. While recycling large quantities of carbon dioxide emission into high value biomass, the technology enhances atmospheric restoration by releasing oxygen that is chemically bonded in CO2, back into the atmosphere.

Algaecake Technologies Corporation is currently forming government and corporate relations to commercialize its technology and reduce greenhouse gas emissions by using co2 to cultivate algae for producing oil to be refined into biodiesel fuel. Algae cake is a very valuable, hi-protein by-product of our system that will be allocated to the production of nutritional food additives, vitamin supplements, animal / fish feed and other valuable consumer products.

Algaecake Technologies answers today�s challenges of producing cost effective bio fuels from algae cultivation. Considering our technical advantages, no other vertical or horizontal bio reactor system can compare in energy efficiency and volume per acre from harvesting external light for photosynthesis.

tangent4ronpaul
11-28-2009, 11:24 AM
What type of idea? How do you want to setup. Do you own a farm, a pool or are looking to build a bioreactor indoors?

I'm currently looking for a press. Most presses cost thousands, however I found one that cost a couple hundred. I just don't know if it will work yet with algae. When I find one that is cheap and viable I'll post it. Besides that all you need is sunlight or fluorescent lighting and some type of air pump to give it oxygen.

So, besides manufacturing the plant with the bioreactors you need a press to extract it. Professionals are going to use a good press ranging from $1,500 to $9,000. However, we might find one that is for home use for a couple hundred.

I think it's possible to not pay for gas ever again by spending a couple hundred on investment.

Look for cheese press plans - you will probably need to superglue strips of cheesecloth or window screen across the slats....

-t

tangent4ronpaul
11-28-2009, 11:41 AM
Hey guys, can anyone find any FREE documentation that explains how to do everything from cultivation, finding algae strains, to making your own bioreactor?

post 14 and arround there - but you will have to use your brain to figure it out. It's not a "for dummies" book....

-t

ClayTrainor
11-28-2009, 11:44 AM
Very interesting stuff. I just did a quick search on how to make this stuff at home, and found this video.

YouTube - Make Algae Biodiesel at Home (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nf3M68S3ec)

squarepusher
11-28-2009, 12:03 PM
Very interesting stuff. I just did a quick search on how to make this stuff at home, and found this video.

YouTube - Make Algae Biodiesel at Home (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nf3M68S3ec)

apparently that book is a bit of a deception maybe, from the authors apparently it was compiled just from information available online (so, basically one of use made a book from research)

http://www.biodieselnow.com/algae1/f/13/p/21698/151546.aspx

and its $99 =]


but, then again some people said it was a good book. Here is another company that is selling this type of equipment/how-tos

http://www.ecogenicsresearchcenter.org/index.htm

lester1/2jr
11-28-2009, 12:37 PM
more or less agree w/ legion

jmdrake
11-28-2009, 09:18 PM
Send some our way- we in SoCal are under water restrictions due to shortages. This effects California agriculture (some of your food) along with cities. Lower yields means higher costs to produce the same amount of potential fuel. Paying for "runoff treatment" does not necessarily mean there is s surplus of water. That means that the water may end up being used by someone else.

Some places also lack sand. That doesn't mean there is a worldwide shortage of it. In Tennessee we've got a glut of water. Shipping it to Cali isn't economically viable, but that doesn't mean we can't afford to use it in algae production. Besides, some strains of biofuel algae can grow in saltwater. California's got plenty of that.

Magicman
11-29-2009, 09:51 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12834398/


This article shows how Algae Farms can recycle Carbon dioxide. This gives an actual solution to what Obama is trying to cause a global tax increase on and what he labels as a crisis. It doesn't make sense to tax the population but it makes a lot of sense to use algae as a way to reuse carbon and be used for biofuels.

tangent4ronpaul
11-29-2009, 03:37 PM
apparently that book is a bit of a deception maybe, from the authors apparently it was compiled just from information available online (so, basically one of use made a book from research)

http://www.biodieselnow.com/algae1/f/13/p/21698/151546.aspx

and its $99 =]


but, then again some people said it was a good book. Here is another company that is selling this type of equipment/how-tos

http://www.ecogenicsresearchcenter.org/index.htm

You can build a solar algae pond out of greenhouse glazing for not that much. Granted, glazing isn't that cheap - but it won't break the bank.

New Alchemy Institute had a publication: "how to build a solar algae pond" that was available as a xerox on demand reprint, but they have stopped that service. I've built one, and should have a copy around here somewhere so if you are serious about building one, I might be able to dig it up and get a copy to you.

Do check out what you can do with them:

http://nature.my.cape.com/greencenter/articles.htm
http://nature.my.cape.com/greencenter/newalchemy.html

also found this on making a small bioreactor:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Solar-powered-algae-bioreactor/

-t

Magicman
11-30-2009, 12:48 PM
AWESOME VIDEO TO WATCH CHECK IT OUT!

YouTube - X Prize Crazy Green Idea: Regenerative Algae Farms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOI0b4HLMP4)

fisharmor
11-30-2009, 01:46 PM
The reactor idea is crap.
It's obvious to anyone with any experience doing anything industrial.
The algae needs CO2 to thrive.
The CO2 is pumped into the reactor.
Therefore you need tanked CO2.

This is where it all breaks down. You see, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere isn't anywhere near the chicken-little Al Gore bullshit scenario that everyone thinks is the case.

They are pumping tanked CO2 into the reactors. That is more likely than not why the reactors are getting such a high yield compared to the open tank systems.

Go to a gas supply company and get a quote on how much tanked CO2 costs for a low-use application like mig welding or laser cutting, and it'll make perfect sense why this isn't happening and probably never will.

The pump & dump hypothesis makes perfect sense.

Old Ducker
11-30-2009, 02:43 PM
The reactor idea is crap.
It's obvious to anyone with any experience doing anything industrial.
The algae needs CO2 to thrive.
The CO2 is pumped into the reactor.
Therefore you need tanked CO2.

This is where it all breaks down. You see, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere isn't anywhere near the chicken-little Al Gore bullshit scenario that everyone thinks is the case.

They are pumping tanked CO2 into the reactors. That is more likely than not why the reactors are getting such a high yield compared to the open tank systems.

Go to a gas supply company and get a quote on how much tanked CO2 costs for a low-use application like mig welding or laser cutting, and it'll make perfect sense why this isn't happening and probably never will.

The pump & dump hypothesis makes perfect sense.

Good points. The future of algae as a fuel source will probably depend on bioreactors that will require large amounts of industrially produced CO2. One possibility would be to pair algae and ethanol plants since CO2 is a byproduct in that operation from fermentation, although I have no idea if the mass balances would work out.

Brian4Liberty
11-30-2009, 02:55 PM
It seems to me that this a natural method of converting solar energy into a form that can be stored. How does it compare to the efficiency of solar panels? How much energy can an acre of solar cells produce compared to the acre of algae farms?

Magicman
12-02-2009, 10:03 AM
Bump

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2009, 11:05 AM
Good points. The future of algae as a fuel source will probably depend on bioreactors that will require large amounts of industrially produced CO2. One possibility would be to pair algae and ethanol plants since CO2 is a byproduct in that operation from fermentation, although I have no idea if the mass balances would work out.

That's a really interesting idea. The Solar Algae Ponds are a balanced ecosystem with the fish producing the CO2, but mating with ethanol production would be good and opens up the possibility of a hybrid fuel. Still need the inputs for the ethanol. From an autonomous perspective I was thinking of what could be produced locally as a sugar source. sweet potatoes/yams, sugar beats, butternut squash, maple sap, honey, fruits...

from a space/efficiency and less of a seasonal limitation sweet potatoes/yams and honey seem the best. The former can be grown in trash cans with holes along the sides in a greenhouse and batches staggered to give a continuing yield. Unfortunately, sweet potato's only yield 8.4 grams of sugar per 100 grams of food. Honey has 82.1 grams of sugar per 100 grams of food (82.1g/100g), maple syrup 59.5g/100g, dates 63.3g/100g, apples (dried) 57.2g/100g - fruit ranges from here to about 7g/100g. I know NASA was experimenting with growing yams via the Nutriant Film Technique (NFT) as part of their Controlled Ecological Life Support Systems (CELSS) program - so that is a good sign. An interesting aspect of this work was that they were grown under LED's emitting specific wavelengths of light - but the point is minimal energy consumption.

http://www.dietaryfiberfood.com/sugar-content.php

http://www.springerlink.com/content/h3v126671765t380/

-t

jmdrake
12-02-2009, 11:23 AM
That's a really interesting idea. The Solar Algae Ponds are a balanced ecosystem with the fish producing the CO2, but mating with ethanol production would be good and opens up the possibility of a hybrid fuel. Still need the inputs for the ethanol. From an autonomous perspective I was thinking of what could be produced locally as a sugar source. sweet potatoes/yams, sugar beats, butternut squash, maple sap, honey, fruits...


Don't forget sorghum. It yields 800 gallons per acre (compare with 250 gallons per acre for corn) and it's drought resistant.

http://www.journalstar.com/news/local/article_0ad6c083-b803-5da1-b411-6c7abcdb8f71.html

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v457/n7229/edsumm/e090129-01.html

tangent4ronpaul
12-02-2009, 01:17 PM
few more...

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/16167/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13790353/NASA-Plants-in-Space
note slides: 31 (Mars base by 2030), 36 (2x world record yield for potato's) and 37 (5x record yield of wheat)
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?N=4294793041&Ns=HarvestDate|0&as=false
(bunch of reports here)

-t