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View Full Version : How low will he go? Obama gives Japan's Emperor Akihito a wow bow




WClint
11-14-2009, 12:58 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0128759fd303970c-600wi


How low will the new American president go for the world's royalty?

This photo will get Democrat President Obama a lot of approving nods in Japan this weekend, especially among the older generation of Japanese who still pay attention to the royal family living in its downtown castle. Very low bows like this are a sign of great respect and deference to a superior.

To some in the United States, however, an upright handshake might have looked better. Remember Michelle Obama casually patting Britain's Queen Elizabeth on the back during their Buckingham Palace visit? America's royalty tends to make movies and get bad reviews and lots of money as a sign of respect.

Obama could receive some frowns back home as he did for his not-quite-this-low-or-maybe-about-the-same-bow to the Saudi king not so long ago. (See photo here)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef012875a01896970c-300wi

Reason
11-14-2009, 01:05 PM
oh noes!

our president is intelligent enough to superficially show respect to foreign leaders instead of being a complete arrogant prick like GWB!

/very concerned!

WClint
11-14-2009, 01:11 PM
oh noes!

our president is intelligent enough to superficially show respect to foreign leaders instead of being a complete arrogant prick like GWB!

/very concerned!
Maybe you belong in the democrat form...

Son of Detroit
11-14-2009, 01:12 PM
Nevermind.

Reason
11-14-2009, 01:15 PM
Maybe you belong in the democrat form...

Says the false left/right paradigm promoting guy who joined one month ago?

/yawn

This is a non-issue.

Get over it.

sofia
11-14-2009, 01:17 PM
oh noes!

our president is intelligent enough to superficially show respect to foreign leaders instead of being a complete arrogant prick like GWB!

/very concerned!

its not respect....its showing inferiority. Subjects bow to monarchs.....free men do not...and certainly not heads of nations.

whats wrong with a good old fashioned handshake?

do you see the saudi and jap king bowing to US presidents?

and why didnt he bow to Prince Philip and Queen Lizzie?.....does he only bow to non white monarchs?

Son of Detroit
11-14-2009, 01:19 PM
its not respect....its showing inferiority. Subjects bow to monarchs.....not free men do not...and certainly not heads of nations.

do you see the saudi and jap king bowing to US presidents?

and why didnt he bow to Prince Philip and Queen Lizzie?.....does he only bow to non white monarchs?

No... Bowing is a universal sign of respect in Japan. It's like the handshake here. It happens all of the time.

Reason
11-14-2009, 01:22 PM
No... Bowing is a universal sign of respect in Japan. It's like the handshake here. It happens all of the time.

Seriously, I thought this was common knowledge. :confused:

AutoDas
11-14-2009, 01:26 PM
yes, but to bow and handshake at the same time? he looks like a twat

Danke
11-14-2009, 01:34 PM
No... Bowing is a universal sign of respect in Japan. It's like the handshake here. It happens all of the time.

If both parties bow the same amount. But it is very much a sign of superiority if you reciprocate by bowing only slightly.

sofia
11-14-2009, 01:39 PM
why doesnt he bow before white monarchs??????

misterx
11-14-2009, 01:39 PM
No... Bowing is a universal sign of respect in Japan. It's like the handshake here. It happens all of the time.

A slight bow is a sign of respect, like a handshake. If you read the article, you would know that a deep bow like this is a sign of deference to a superior.

Danke
11-14-2009, 01:39 PM
Emperor Hirohito (1901-1989)http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarthur/peopleevents/images/pandeAMEX97.jpg
If ever a picture was worth a thousand words, it was the image of General MacArthur and Emperor Hirohito standing side by side during their historic first meeting on September 27, 1945. In it, a casually dressed MacArthur towers over the stiff, formally attired Emperor. "What does it say?" asks historian Carol Gluck. "It says, I'm MacArthur, Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, and I'm in charge." For millions of Japanese, it brought home in an entirely new way the notion that they had lost the war

sofia
11-14-2009, 01:40 PM
a simple head bow would suffice and be acceptable...

but barry looks like he's getting ready to do a monica lewinsky


he is so pathetic

Cowlesy
11-14-2009, 01:45 PM
I thought the 40% bow was appropriate if meeting royalty in Japan? I thought he got it exactly right.

Reason
11-14-2009, 01:47 PM
so much unproductive focus on useless Obama bashing stories lately...

straight from the Rupert Murdoch memo for today's "coverage"

dizi24
11-14-2009, 01:58 PM
Emperor Hirohito (1901-1989)http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarthur/peopleevents/images/pandeAMEX97.jpg
If ever a picture was worth a thousand words, it was the image of General MacArthur and Emperor Hirohito standing side by side during their historic first meeting on September 27, 1945. In it, a casually dressed MacArthur towers over the stiff, formally attired Emperor. "What does it say?" asks historian Carol Gluck. "It says, I'm MacArthur, Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, and I'm in charge." For millions of Japanese, it brought home in an entirely new way the notion that they had lost the war

Shit, now the Japs are gonna know that we lost this current war to them because Obama bowed in front of their president. We might as well just give our sovereignty to them because Obama bowed.

misterx
11-14-2009, 01:59 PM
so much unproductive focus on useless Obama bashing stories lately...

straight from the Rupert Murdoch memo for today's "coverage"

If we want to defeat him on policy, it is helpful to tear down the illusion of him as a cultured and strong leader. This faux pas is another crack in that image, so it's hardly unproductive. As long as people worship the false image that has been created of him, they will not be open to opposing ideas.

Danke
11-14-2009, 02:10 PM
Shit, now the Japs are gonna know that we lost this current war to them because Obama bowed in front of their president. We might as well just give our sovereignty to them because Obama bowed.

Wasn't their president. (they don't have one, but they do have a Prime Minister).

dizi24
11-14-2009, 02:14 PM
Wasn't their president. (they don't have one, but they do have a Prime Minister).

Ok smartass. Doesn't change the fact that General MacAthur standing tall while we were at war with them has nothing to do with the fact that Obama bowed to their head of state.

Besides, it was probably more to do with the fact that we leveled two of their cities with nuclear bombs. Not so much MacArthurt standing tall.

Danke
11-14-2009, 02:17 PM
Ok smartass. Doesn't change the fact that General MacAthur standing tall while we were at war with them has nothing to do with the fact that Obama bowed to their head of state.



Wasn't their head of state either.

Dumbass. ;)

BlackTerrel
11-14-2009, 02:50 PM
Wow - this is really news?

I guess we won the war on terror and the economy must be going gangbusters.

Bucjason
11-14-2009, 03:23 PM
If we want to defeat him on policy, it is helpful to tear down the illusion of him as a cultured and strong leader. This faux pas is another crack in that image, so it's hardly unproductive. As long as people worship the false image that has been created of him, they will not be open to opposing ideas.

Exactly ...keep making fun of this douche

zach
11-14-2009, 03:26 PM
Why isn't there mutual respect shown?

sedele
11-14-2009, 03:47 PM
Well he is smart for bowing, not because its right, but because now the Republicans can't say that he only bows to Arab monarchs.

Word

Danke
11-14-2009, 04:07 PM
http://goldismoney.info/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=82322&stc=1&d=1258213343

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww217/MaggiegirlEE/japan-1.jpg

Meatwasp
11-14-2009, 05:20 PM
I thought the 40% bow was appropriate if meeting royalty in Japan? I thought he got it exactly right.

I agree

Thrashertm
11-14-2009, 05:37 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0128759fd303970c-600wi

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef012875a01896970c-300wi

This is such a non-issue it's laughable. I'm more concerned that he's in bed with various special interests that are robbing this country blind.

Acala
11-14-2009, 05:48 PM
One of the VERY few things Obama does right is showing some respect for other cultures. But I guess not being an arrogant ignoramus is considered weak in some circles.

Focusing hostility on Obama the man and his administration, rather than focusing on what is wrong with the structure of government itself, IS the crux of the neocon policy for defusing the liberty movement. It is what Glenn Beck does. The Neocons have no problem with tyranny so long as THEY control it. So diverting people from the idea of really reining in government power and focusing them on changing administrations is job one for the Party.

Bashing Obama personally = retaining the status quo.

MelissaWV
11-14-2009, 05:56 PM
He bowed a bit low. Probably had far more to do with the height difference than any precalculated desire to show deference to royalty.

He isn't doing a very good job with the bowing, having awkward posture and looking straight down as if he's going to throw up on the guy's shoes, but oh well. Back straight, incline, up. The Japanese Emperor is, of course, doing it correctly, though Obama would be expected to bow lower as the visiting dignitary.

When someone visits the US, if their country usually bows as a form of respect, the bow is deeper (and Obama would just incline slightly):

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/amgov/3234/Week_2/101509_AP091014030570_500.jpg

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/71334315.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB00B23250D952A70B 39F71A9C9BC19C35

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sdW9_fDsBd4/SiEWhPhJ-DI/AAAAAAAAN_0/XGMIKCmILvY/s400/3+boys+budget+bow.jpg

This isn't news, except Obama looks inelegant. I'm not sure that Dr. Paul would be bowing any prettier, but I'm willing to bet he would bow slightly because it's culturally respectful, and it doesn't pay to sweat the small stuff like this. It pays to sweat the bigger stuff, like policies, budgets, wars...

Danke
11-14-2009, 06:12 PM
He bowed a bit low. Probably had far more to do with the height difference than any precalculated desire to show deference to royalty.

He isn't doing a very good job with the bowing, having awkward posture and looking straight down as if he's going to throw up on the guy's shoes, but oh well. Back straight, incline, up. The Japanese Emperor is, of course, doing it correctly, though Obama would be expected to bow lower as the visiting dignitary.

When someone visits the US, if their country usually bows as a form of respect, the bow is deeper (and Obama would just incline slightly):

This isn't news, except Obama looks inelegant. I'm not sure that Dr. Paul would be bowing any prettier, but I'm willing to bet he would bow slightly because it's culturally respectful, and it doesn't pay to sweat the small stuff like this. It pays to sweat the bigger stuff, like policies, budgets, wars...

MelissaWV!

Not even funny and culturally wrong. I'm putting Kludge above you again in my RPFs member rankings.

Having lived many years in Japan and Asia, this is not as light a subject as many would make it out to be. Ya, we Americans are beyond that... Sorry folks, there is a whole 'nother world out there.

A Sovereign does not bow to anyone. Sempai/Kohai is very real and alive in their culture.

Obama is "Commander in Chief" Like it or not. Do you think the Generals are not taking notice?

MelissaWV
11-14-2009, 06:18 PM
MelissaWV!

Not even funny and culturally wrong. I'm putting Kludge above you again in my RPFs member rankings.

Having lived many years in Japan and Asia, this is not as light a subject as many would make it out to be. Ya, we Americans are beyond that... Sorry folks, there is a whole 'nother world out there.

A Sovereign does not bow to anyone. Sempai/Kohai is very real and alive in their culture.

Obama is "Commander in Chief" Like it or not. Do you think the Generals are not taking notice?

Yet my photographic evidence says otherwise :) Now, you don't bow THAT damned low... he could have kissed the guy's shoes. A slight incline. It's a little like the way some cultures do a kiss/kiss on the cheek. I would liken this to him grabbing the applicable world leader, twirling him around, and shoving his tongue down their throat (or, really, having that world leader tongue-kiss him). Two different moves altogether. I just don't see THIS as being worthy of as much ire as I see it getting on here. There's plenty to criticize without this.

Reminds me of when Bush, Sr. threw up... and that's a faux pas in most cultures ;)

TNforPaul45
11-14-2009, 07:20 PM
Heads of state should never bow worshipfully to each other like this. An American President should only do a respectful slight bow, or a nod of the head.

As Americans, we should never bow to any King, Monarch or Tyrant. We as a country exist because we decided that the human race no longer needs a "king", but that the people were ready to govern themselves.

I will bow to no king. I will not help propagate the myth that one person should be worshipped or exalted in any way.

My President should not either.

LibForestPaul
11-14-2009, 07:25 PM
its not respect....its showing inferiority. Subjects bow to monarchs.....free men do not...and certainly not heads of nations.

whats wrong with a good old fashioned handshake?

do you see the saudi and jap king bowing to US presidents?

and why didnt he bow to Prince Philip and Queen Lizzie?.....does he only bow to non white monarchs?

ESPECIALLY the ELECTED President of THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON EARTH and the ONLY non-COMMUNIST on earth.

t0rnado
11-14-2009, 07:32 PM
Stop wasting your time on this bullshit. Find something else to be angry and indignant about.

Kludge
11-14-2009, 07:47 PM
Good for him. False respect is a great way to get something for nothing. Someone has to repair the "my way, you better pray" arrogant-cowboy-with-an-superiority-complex image. I suggest, in the future, the president bring them our finest jewelry. Empires prior did this. Britain did this. They practically conquered the whole damn world.


I'm putting Kludge above you again in my RPFs member rankings.

woot

TNforPaul45
11-14-2009, 07:49 PM
I'm not advocating "My way you better pray," but I do not like the low bow to any emperor/king/monarch, etc.

We can be strong, as well as flexible. Our president should not pee himself every time some foreign leader says "boo" just because he's the American President.

Cowlesy
11-14-2009, 07:49 PM
If he hadn't bowed right, Matt Drudge and all the frothing-at-the-mouth neocons would be screeching "HE SHOWS NO RESPECT FOR OTHER CUTLURES [sic]...ODINGO NEEDS TO GO WE CANT UPSET OUR ALLIES LIKE THIS...NO RESPECT ELITIST"

Catatonic
11-14-2009, 07:58 PM
its not respect....its showing inferiority. Subjects bow to monarchs.....free men do not...and certainly not heads of nations.

whats wrong with a good old fashioned handshake?

do you see the saudi and jap king bowing to US presidents?

and why didnt he bow to Prince Philip and Queen Lizzie?.....does he only bow to non white monarchs?

In Japan bowing is a sign of respect. But bowing that low with your head down is a sign of submission. It looks like the Japanese president is bowing slightly as well. Notice his head is up and he's trying to make eye contact.

In both pictures it looks like Obama is trying to kneel. Not acceptable. But I think Obama is trying to represent what he sees as America's new role in the world - everyone's b****.

To be fair Bush Sr. also showed submission for the Queen of England.

I don't really think this is a very big deal, but I consider it akin to laughing at Bush's antics over the last 8 or so years.

silverhawks
11-14-2009, 09:19 PM
I certainly don't consider it number one on the list, but no American should bow or kneel to a head of state.

RM918
11-14-2009, 10:56 PM
Man, a lot of you guys could go one-for-one with Hannity's guys on hubris. Dick waving is not conducive to diplomacy.

Andrew-Austin
11-14-2009, 10:58 PM
Heads of state should never bow worshipfully to each other like this. An American President should only do a respectful slight bow, or a nod of the head.

As Americans, we should never bow to any King, Monarch or Tyrant. We as a country exist because we decided that the human race no longer needs a "king", but that the people were ready to govern themselves.

I will bow to no king. I will not help propagate the myth that one person should be worshipped or exalted in any way.

My President should not either.

lol

We might not call them kings, but America still has its rulers, you could hardly say the people govern themselves.

WClint
11-15-2009, 10:56 AM
Obama Again Refuses To Honor America

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/obforgot.jpg
http://rense.com/
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0128759fd303970c-600wi
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef012875a01896970c-300wi

denison
11-15-2009, 12:22 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0128759fd303970c-600wi

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef012875a01896970c-300wi

If you don't wanna practice their customs, then stay out of their country. Get rid of any military bases in Japan or Saudi Arabia. Problem solved. :cool:

angelatc
11-15-2009, 12:27 PM
If he hadn't bowed right, Matt Drudge and all the frothing-at-the-mouth neocons would be screeching "HE SHOWS NO RESPECT FOR OTHER CUTLURES [sic]...ODINGO NEEDS TO GO WE CANT UPSET OUR ALLIES LIKE THIS...NO RESPECT ELITIST"

He didn't bow right. It isn't possible for him to bow right.

First and foremost, Americans don't bow to anybody. Ever. Second, Presidents definitely do not bow to anybody, ever. Third, his bow is very low and he broke eye contact. To the Japanese, that is pretty much the same as a dog that pisses on the floor and rolls over on it's back to prove submission when it greets you.

The left wingers that think it's cute for him to try to respect the culture have no idea what they're talking about. Bush kissing the Saudi Prince had an entirely different context. It was a gesture of strong friendship, not submission.

Libertarians and liberals aren't much on the social graces, but proper manners and international protocol are very important in the elite circles Obama travels in. Presidents have an freaking advisor on staff to keep them on top of the game in this respect for a reason.

angelatc
11-15-2009, 12:35 PM
Man, a lot of you guys could go one-for-one with Hannity's guys on hubris. Dick waving is not conducive to diplomacy.

Dick waving, as you so eloquently put it, is absolutely conducive to diplomacy. Men are animals,and the stronger negotiator has the upper hand. Exposing your soft underbelly is no way to start a conversation.

tremendoustie
11-15-2009, 12:44 PM
I don't really care how low he bows. The presidency has been occupied by thieves and tyrants for some time now, and he is no exception. I have no pride bound up with that institution.

The both of them should grovel in the presence of the nearest garbageman, in my opinion.

2young2vote
11-15-2009, 01:01 PM
I don't care that he bowed, and i don't care that he didn't put his hand on his chest/heart. Those are both pointless gestures There is nothing wrong with him doing that, although he does look kind of stupid when he does it...it just doesn't look natural.

legion
11-15-2009, 02:41 PM
it appears that his advisors were concerned with him bowing physically lower than the (very short) japanese emperor

i wouldnt know what to do in this situation either.

hes the commander in chief of the united states of america, not japan, which is why it is proper to show respect when visiting.

angelatc
11-15-2009, 02:54 PM
it appears that his advisors were concerned with him bowing physically lower than the (very short) japanese emperor

i wouldnt know what to do in this situation either.

hes the commander in chief of the united states of america, not japan, which is why it is proper to show respect when visiting.

You are absolutely wrong. You clearly do not understand the cultural significance of the bow. From every protocol standard, it is wrong for him to bow.

I can tell you what to do in this situation. You do not bow. It's not hard to remember. Americans do not bow.

This is why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots. It's not that we don't bow - it's that we're unclear about the fact that we're not supposed to bow, and that when we do, we think it means respect. In fact, we don't really care what it really means.

Or even better, we think it's stupid and don't actually care what it means. Centuries of their cultural traditions - not important to us.

angelatc
11-15-2009, 02:56 PM
I don't really care how low he bows. The presidency has been occupied by thieves and tyrants for some time now, and he is no exception. I have no pride bound up with that institution.

The both of them should grovel in the presence of the nearest garbageman, in my opinion.

Which is why you won't do well on an international stage.

jmdrake
11-15-2009, 05:03 PM
No... Bowing is a universal sign of respect in Japan. It's like the handshake here. It happens all of the time.

I'm curious. Have you ever been to Japan? I have and I was told not to bow too low. A slight bow is a sight of respect. But bowing too low is a sign of subservience.

akforme
11-15-2009, 05:29 PM
I'm sad that people who I thought were above petty main stream BS would get caught up in this crap

Fuck if RP supporters haven't gone neocon already.

jmdrake
11-15-2009, 05:34 PM
I'm sad that people who I thought were above petty main stream BS would get caught up in this crap

Fuck if RP supporters haven't gone neocon already.

:rolleyes: This isn't petty. And neocons excused this during the Bush administration.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_j24uCNMZoG8/Sd4aXxPIsoI/AAAAAAAAIMs/V4M8UagqH50/s400/ZZ72682359.jpg

akforme
11-15-2009, 05:43 PM
:rolleyes: This isn't petty. And neocons excused this during the Bush administration.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_j24uCNMZoG8/Sd4aXxPIsoI/AAAAAAAAIMs/V4M8UagqH50/s400/ZZ72682359.jpg

And I didn't give a shit then either.

What they do publically is for show, I'm more concerned about what they did behind close doors. I will agree it doesn't look good, and I do have a problem with Bush Sr. being knighted, because that ceremony is a symbol of allegence to the thrown, but bowing is a sign of respect just like shaking hands.

jmdrake
11-15-2009, 05:45 PM
And I didn't give a shit then either.

What they do publically is for show, I'm more concerned about what they did behind close doors.

:rolleyes: What they do publicly is often an indication of what they will do behind closed doors. Since you'll never get to look behind closed doors the best you can do is analyze public body language.

BenIsForRon
11-15-2009, 05:48 PM
I think we may have secret agents from Fox News trying to overthrow this board...

akforme
11-15-2009, 05:49 PM
:rolleyes: What they do publicly is often an indication of what they will do behind closed doors. Since you'll never get to look behind closed doors the best you can do is analyze public body language.

You're kidding right?

jmdrake
11-15-2009, 05:53 PM
You're kidding right?

No. And if you knew anything about covert intelligence or psychology you'd know why. During the cold war public photos of Kremlin officials were often analyzed to know who was on the upswing and who was on the way out. If you think you're going to somehow get a bead on what's going on "behind closed doors" then you must be kidding. There's a reason they are called "closed doors".

Regards,

John M. Drake

akforme
11-15-2009, 06:10 PM
No. And if you knew anything about covert intelligence or psychology you'd know why. During the cold war public photos of Kremlin officials were often analyzed to know who was on the upswing and who was on the way out. If you think you're going to somehow get a bead on what's going on "behind closed doors" then you must be kidding. There's a reason they are called "closed doors".

Regards,

John M. Drake

And during the cold war we needed an enemy at all costs, so they would find any reason to keep it going, no matter how trivial.

As for Bush, didn't he just publically come out for "free markets' so behind closed doors he must be continuing that action right?

jmdrake
11-15-2009, 06:14 PM
And during the cold war we needed an enemy at all costs, so they would find any reason to keep it going, no matter how trivial.

As for Bush, didn't he just publically come out for "free markets' so behind closed doors he must be continuing that action right?

I don't know what the particular story was surrounding Bush bowing to that particular prince. But he could have said behind closed doors "Yes I will do everything I can to cover up Riggs bank laundering money for terrorism. After all my uncle works there".

Oh, and we did have a "real enemy" during the cold war.

See: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peterwhittle/100004797/a-fact-the-left-ignores-the-kgb-seriously-infiltrated-postwar-america/

itshappening
11-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Obama bowed on behalf of the military industrial complex because it will play well with the Japanese public, many of whom want the US troops out. This can't be allowed to happen.

BlackTerrel
11-15-2009, 09:31 PM
I'm sad that people who I thought were above petty main stream BS would get caught up in this crap

Fuck if RP supporters haven't gone neocon already.

Ditto. We can't be spending time getting involved in this petty BS.

jmdrake
11-15-2009, 09:35 PM
Ditto. We can't be spending time getting involved in this petty BS.

:rolleyes: And yet you spend time reading and responding to the thread!

Like I said earlier. The one time I went to Japan I was told not to "overbow". If you do you are regarded as subservient. If me, pissant little nobody, was told that, then certainly the "leader of the free world" should know that. Of course the truth is we are a nation in decline. Asian nations are especially aware of this.

http://tinyurl.com/m664s7

Grimnir Wotansvolk
11-15-2009, 09:56 PM
lol @ respecting cultural mores

doublelol @ acknowledging the authority of a state representative

BlackTerrel
11-15-2009, 10:06 PM
:rolleyes: And yet you spend time reading and responding to the thread!

Like I said earlier. The one time I went to Japan I was told not to "overbow". If you do you are regarded as subservient. If me, pissant little nobody, was told that, then certainly the "leader of the free world" should know that. Of course the truth is we are a nation in decline. Asian nations are especially aware of this.

http://tinyurl.com/m664s7

You're right. Let's keep talking about it. This is very important.

angelatc
11-15-2009, 10:10 PM
And I didn't give a shit then either.

What they do publically is for show, I'm more concerned about what they did behind close doors. I will agree it doesn't look good, and I do have a problem with Bush Sr. being knighted, because that ceremony is a symbol of allegence to the thrown, but bowing is a sign of respect just like shaking hands.

No,it isn't. Again, saying things like that only serves to make Americans look ignorant. Saying we shouldn't care makes us look arrogant.

Everything we learned watching King Fu isn't quite right.

First and foremost, Americans don't bow to anybody. It's one of the perks we got when we won the Revolutionary War.

Second, everybody in Japan knows that Americans don't bow, because we're not part of their empire.

Obama is a fool.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/09/AR2009060902992.html


Miss Manners has now watched at least half a dozen administrations get this wrong. They go to one extreme or the other, behaving like other presidents' buddies or like monarchs' subjects.

Where is the Office of Protocol, for goodness' sake?

Yes, yes, Americans pride ourselves on being warm and open and spontaneous. But heads of state are the symbolic embodiments of their countries, and the greeting gesture is itself symbolic. If they improvise mistakenly, they can expect a spontaneous outburst of American disdain.

The American greeting routine used to be simple. Because we officially consider all people to be equal and equally worthy of respect, the same gesture, the handshake -- simple, dignified and egalitarian -- would do for all.

We knew it wasn't universal, but it was our way. We felt superior to people who had to bow down to their leaders. And we found it side-splitting to watch news footage of French generals bestowing kisses on their soldiers when they gave out medals.

Then, about half a century ago, came the American huggy movement. Instant intimacy was going to solve everyone's problems by making them feel good, which, in turn, would end war and strife. It took rather vigorous forms among some, but eventually infiltrated even the most staid parts of society, where the handshake had been the greeting that fathers gave their young sons.

And it spread internationally. Heads of state took to kissing and hugging one another, a truly bad idea politically. Those photographs are bound to surface when the loved one or his country does something nasty.

Symbolically, it is bad even in good times. Such bonding smacks of the days when protocol had sovereigns from different monarchies addressing one another as "Monsieur Mon Frère" or "Madame Ma Soeur," regardless of whether they had any familial ties. The idea was that they belonged to an international ruling class as distinguished from the mere subjects over whom they reigned.

And if you don't believe that, you should try a spontaneous hug on any head of state -- your own or anyone else's -- who happens to come your way in a parade or ceremony.

But symbolic subservience to a foreign ruler is worse. When Miss Manners sees American citizens delighting in bowing or curtseying to royalty, she tries to remind herself that they are just being silly, not treasonous. When an American official does it, we can only hope it was because he was noticing that his own shoelace was undone -- and not that he recognizes the divine right of kings in general, or the authority over us of that king in particular.

Bowing to a monarch is something only subjects do.

itshappening
11-16-2009, 03:36 AM
http://domania.us/Oaccess/OBAMA/O-JapanBow.gif

SelfTaught
11-16-2009, 04:03 AM
http://domania.us/Oaccess/OBAMA/O-JapanBow.gif

Haha, I saw this on the DailyPaul. This slideshow makes Obama look bogus.

Bucjason
11-16-2009, 07:48 AM
One of the VERY few things Obama does right is showing some respect for other cultures. But I guess not being an arrogant ignoramus is considered weak in some circles.

Focusing hostility on Obama the man and his administration, rather than focusing on what is wrong with the structure of government itself, IS the crux of the neocon policy for defusing the liberty movement. It is what Glenn Beck does. The Neocons have no problem with tyranny so long as THEY control it. So diverting people from the idea of really reining in government power and focusing them on changing administrations is job one for the Party.

Bashing Obama personally = retaining the status quo.

Funny ....I don't see other foriegn leaders showing respect for Obama's black culture by giving him "daps" .

http://freshnerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/obamas.jpg

Give me a break , it is stupid and demeaning . You can show respect without being a douche and pretending like you're a geisha girl....

angelatc
11-16-2009, 08:04 AM
Funny ....I don't see other foriegn leaders showing respect for Obama's black culture by giving him "daps" .

http://freshnerd.com/wp-content/uloads/2008/07/obamas.jpg

Give me a break , it is stupid and demeaning . You can show respect without being a douche and pretending like you're a geisha girl....

Not to mention that bowing while shaking hands is not, in any form, considered a sign of respect.

This isn't bashing Obama personally. This is bashing Obama's performance in his official role of head of state.

angelatc
11-16-2009, 08:13 AM
I'm curious. Have you ever been to Japan? I have and I was told not to bow too low. A slight bow is a sight of respect. But bowing too low is a sign of subservience.

A bow is only a sign of respect when it's reciprocated. The Emperor bows to no man. The President isn't supposed to either.

Americans aren't ever supposed to bow to foreign heads of state, and the Japanese don't expect us to bow at all, because we're not descended from their dynasties.

We Americans shake hands no matter who we meet - be it royalty or a homeless pregnant stepmom.

RyanRSheets
11-16-2009, 08:18 AM
Maybe he's just trying to see eye to eye. Dude is really short!

angelatc
11-16-2009, 08:23 AM
Maybe he's just trying to see eye to eye. Dude is really short!

He already used that excuse when he bowed to the Saudi king.

angelatc
11-16-2009, 08:27 AM
One of the VERY few things Obama does right is showing some respect for other cultures. But I guess not being an arrogant ignoramus is considered weak in some circles.

.

Your logic is seriously flawed.

The bow proved he is an ignoramus. Refusing to be bothered by respecting the fine art of international protocols proves he is arrogant.

FreedomRings
11-16-2009, 08:34 AM
Reminds me of...

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/3325571.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D06BEB5DC91C793B74560D631E117777A 87347052288BB462

pacelli
11-16-2009, 08:41 AM
76 replies on Obama bowing, which is very entertaining.

13 replies on activism for Debra Medina. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51

30 replies on activism surrounding the national rifle raffle for Adam Kokesh. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=215691

46 replies for negative press about Rand Paul at this critical time in the campaign. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218854

5 replies in response to the fact that today, November 16 is a moneybomb for Peter Schiff. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218815

angelatc
11-16-2009, 08:49 AM
76 replies on Obama bowing, which is very entertaining.

13 replies on activism for Debra Medina. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51

30 replies on activism surrounding the national rifle raffle for Adam Kokesh. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=215691

46 replies for negative press about Rand Paul at this critical time in the campaign. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218854

5 replies in response to the fact that today, November 16 is a moneybomb for Peter Schiff. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218815


I don't live in any of those districts, and I'm too broke to donate.

WClint
11-16-2009, 09:02 AM
76 replies on Obama bowing, which is very entertaining.

13 replies on activism for Debra Medina. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51

30 replies on activism surrounding the national rifle raffle for Adam Kokesh. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=215691

46 replies for negative press about Rand Paul at this critical time in the campaign. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218854

5 replies in response to the fact that today, November 16 is a moneybomb for Peter Schiff. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218815

And the thread about Ron Paul drinking water had 377 posts so... buttons. Its called the Ron Paul forums...
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=109572

jmdrake
11-16-2009, 09:03 AM
76 replies on Obama bowing, which is very entertaining.

13 replies on activism for Debra Medina. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=51

30 replies on activism surrounding the national rifle raffle for Adam Kokesh. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=215691

46 replies for negative press about Rand Paul at this critical time in the campaign. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218854

5 replies in response to the fact that today, November 16 is a moneybomb for Peter Schiff. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218815

Long threads are more often then not driven by arguments. Who's going to argue against donating to liberty candidates or that Rand's campaign manager should be careful not to say something stupid? You want a long thread? Start one that says "We should not donate to this liberty candidate and here's why" and watch the sparks fly.