ABC's V Series - The Spiritual Connotations

[tpreitzel]

Unfortunately, I need to lay some ground rules.

This thread is strictly about the spiritual connotations of ABC's new series, V. Discussions varying much from the spiritual connotations are off-topic. Some discussion of the political aspects of the new series, V, is probably appropriate since spiritual and political realms can't be totally separated , e.g. the fallacy of a complete separation of church (including belief not simply institutions) and state. More generalized discussion of the V series should be held in other threads outside the Religion sub forum.

Now,

In my opinion, the motive behind the new series is to prepare humanity for disclosure of "alien" beings which will be seen and accepted by the majority of humanity as God. Anyone even remotely familiar with UFOs, ancient religious texts, and paranormal phenomena know something otherworldly has been occurring with regularity since the advent of humanity. In the first episode of V, remember Tyler's remark, "O my God", just before the opening credit of the series. Tyler's apparently exclamatory response to the arrival of the Vs contained a more subtle reference to the Vs as his God. Tyler is an archetype of gullible humanity in general. Furthermore, remember the repetition of the idea that the Vs possess the most powerful weapon of all, devotion. Clearly, the intention of the new series is to prepare humanity for a false God(s), the Vs, when ultimately revealed.

[Bruno]

It's certainly a possibility.

And is this just a coincidence?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=218605&highlight=ufo+vatican

After the UFO sighting over O'Hare airport, one witness said something the effective of "It really made me question my religious beliefs"

[pcosmar]

I expect that the Fallen Angels(demons) that were cast to earth will "reveal" themselves as "aliens".
Just another deception from the Great Deceiver.

just my take on it.

[Bruno]

I expect that the Fallen Angels(demons) that were cast to earth will "reveal" themselves as "aliens".
Just another deception from the Great Deceiver.

just my take on it.

or are we the offspring of the fallen angels and the real aliens (not really lizard people) are the good angels?

[MelissaWV]

Once upon a time there was a planet. On that planet, there was a race that had survived for so long that it developed the technology to travel the stars. It was decided that, for reasons of keeping the failing gene pool a bit more pure, the "less bright" folks who were only using a miniscule portion of their brains would be put on a nice planet that was discovered far away. There, they would flourish and breed and develop their own civilization(s).

From time to time, the beings from the initial planet would check back, abducting one or two of the "short bus" citizens and testing their intelligence, hygeine, and development. Unfortunately, none of them really passed muster, and upon being sent back to the surface would often embarrass themselves profusely.

Oh how far off can I be? And if an "alien" race were checking up on us, and the only people they abducted were yokels who were out fishing or something, what would they think of us?

:D

[nate895]

Let me get this straight, we won't accept that there is a God, but aliens VIOLATING THE LAWS OF PHYSICS is a perfectly rational belief.

+1 to pcosmar as well.

[Bruno]

Let me get this straight, we won't accept that there is a God, but aliens VIOLATING THE LAWS OF PHYSICS is a perfectly rational belief.

+1 to pcosmar as well.

which law of physics was broken, and how are we to be sure they were broken to begin with? and what laws of physics does the concept of a God break?

[tpreitzel]

Let me get this straight, we won't accept that there is a God, but aliens VIOLATING THE LAWS OF PHYSICS is a perfectly rational belief.

+1 to pcosmar as well.

One can even extrapolate Tyler's archetype to the incident in the Garden of Eden (nachash). Tyler (gullible humanity) and therefore Eve were enraptured by the superficial, i.e. the sensory apparatus, given to humanity primarily to protect the body. Ironically, man's sensory apparatus was the mechanism for his deception. ;)

Another interesting parallel is the apparent requirement of the "aliens" to need humanity's permission to intervene in human affairs. Why is that? Aren't "aliens" of superior intellect and capability? ;) An obvious answer includes God and the limited free agency He gave to His creation. In other words, all entities including humans possess a limited free will and MUST act within the constraints of some hierarchy or structure, e.g. the physical body.

[nate895]

which law of physics was broken, and how are we to be sure they were broken to begin with? and what laws of physics does the concept of a God break?

The amount of energy it would take to power an entity of any mass to go the speed of light is infinite. That is just the speed of light, so unless the aliens were willing to go slower than cosmic molasses in an igloo, they couldn't get here. If they chose to do that, there would never be able to send the multitudes of aliens that have supposedly come to Earth anyway.

As far as God breaking a law of physics, God made the laws of physics and is supernatural. He does not have to abide by the laws of physics because He exists outside of space and time, and is therefore only subject to His own eternal character.

[nate895]

One can even extrapolate Tyler's archetype to the incident in the Garden of Eden (nachash). Tyler (gullible humanity) and therefore Eve were enraptured by the superficial, i.e. the sensory apparatus, given to humanity primarily to protect the body. Ironically, man's sensory apparatus was the mechanism for his deception. ;)

Another interesting parallel is the apparent requirement of the "aliens" to need humanity's permission to intervene in human affairs. Why is that? Aren't "aliens" of superior intellect and capability? ;) An obvious answer includes God and the limited free agency He gave to His creation. In other words, all entities including humans possess a limited free will and MUST act within the constraints of some hierarchy or structure, e.g. the physical body.

I don't even know what you are talking saying. Please clarify.

[tpreitzel]

I don't even know what you are talking saying. Please clarify.

I can't really make the concepts clearer. One interpretation of the incident in the Garden of Eden comes from Dr. Michael S. Heiser, www.michaelsheiser.com (http://www.michaelsheiser.com) , and concerns the luminous being in the Garden of Eden that Christianity commonly associates with Lucifer. Basically, Dr. Heiser argues that the common interpretation of serpent (Hebrew noun) should be rendered as "the shiny one" (Hebrew adjective). * You'll have to do some research or contact Michael directly. He's pretty approachable.

* http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geunkA0vxKHX8BSgZrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=124jrui4f/EXP=1258169216/**http%3a//www.thedivinecouncil.com/nachashnotes.pdf

[nate895]

I can't really make the concepts clearer. One interpretation of the incident in the Garden of Eden comes from Dr. Michael S. Heiser, www.michaelsheiser.com , and concerns the luminous being in the Garden of Eden that Christianity commonly associates with Lucifer. You'll have to do some research or contact Michael directly. He's pretty approachable.

Ohh...I see where you are coming from. I thought you were making it out like the "Ancient Astronaught" theorists. I would disagree with some of your conclusions because of false premises, but I can see where they are reasonable.

[tpreitzel]

Additionally, I'd propose the concept that any "superior" being who requires permission from an "inferior" being proves the existence of a hierarchy and by extension the very likelihood of a divine ruler, i.e. God., to keep the hierarchy intact. :)

[Bruno]

Additionally, I'd propose the concept that any "superior" being who requires permission from an "inferior" being proves the existence of a hierarchy and by extension the very likelihood of a divine ruler, i.e. God. :)

That is a stretch. You assume the requirement of permission to be rooted in a belief in God.

[tpreitzel]

That is a stretch. You assume the requirement of permission to be rooted in a belief in God.

Essentially, yes, in order to keep the hierarchy intact. Otherwise, some entity or entities would likely step out of line eventually, i.e. obliterate or consume without constraint.

[Bruno]

Essentially, yes, in order to keep the hierarchy intact. Otherwise, some entity or entities would likely step out of line eventually.

When is eventual? And who is to say eventual hasn't already passed tens of thousands of years ago? And why does the heirachy need to stay intact?

[tpreitzel]

And why does the heirachy need to stay intact?

If there is no divine ruler, i.e. God, the hierarchy would likely NOT stay intact, and beings of "superior" intellect and capability would likely act without permission or constraint eventually. True, humans have no mechanism for determining whether the current hierarchy, i.e. the physical universe and supernatural realm, has remained essentially static.

[Bruno]

If there is no divine ruler, i.e. God, the hierarchy would likely NOT stay intact.

Another assumption.

Even with the assumption of God currently we still have had endless wars throughout world history.

[tpreitzel]

Another assumption.

Even with the assumption of God currently we still have had endless wars throughout world history.

Absolutely, but probable based on observable creation. Animals kill. Humans kill. Even with the killing, constraints still apply. A hunter doesn't need to ask a deer for permission to kill it for food nor does a hunter kill wantonly.

[moostraks]

The amount of energy it would take to power an entity of any mass to go the speed of light is infinite. That is just the speed of light, so unless the aliens were willing to go slower than cosmic molasses in an igloo, they couldn't get here. If they chose to do that, there would never be able to send the multitudes of aliens that have supposedly come to Earth anyway.

As far as God breaking a law of physics, God made the laws of physics and is supernatural. He does not have to abide by the laws of physics because He exists outside of space and time, and is therefore only subject to His own eternal character.

Am curious, is it your assumption that they exist at some great distance, hence the need to go the speed of light?

What if they were right under your nose within the solar system but were able to change form into something comprehensible to man's physical senses? Since we are toying with theories here...:)

[moostraks]

I can't really make the concepts clearer. One interpretation of the incident in the Garden of Eden comes from Dr. Michael S. Heiser, www.michaelsheiser.com (http://www.michaelsheiser.com) , and concerns the luminous being in the Garden of Eden that Christianity commonly associates with Lucifer. Basically, Dr. Heiser argues that the common interpretation of serpent (Hebrew noun) should be rendered as "the shiny one" (Hebrew adjective). * You'll have to do some research or contact Michael directly. He's pretty approachable.

* http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geunkA0vxKHX8BSgZrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=124jrui4f/EXP=1258169216/**http%3a//www.thedivinecouncil.com/nachashnotes.pdf

Looks pretty interesting on a quick scan. Must be off today for awhile but look forward to looking into his theories some more. Seems like he might be right up the alley of what I have read recently. thanks!!!

[nate895]

Am curious, is it your assumption that they exist at some great distance, hence the need to go the speed of light?

What if they were right under your nose within the solar system but were able to change form into something comprehensible to man's physical senses? Since we are toying with theories here...:)

I think you would have the burden of proof concerning them being in our solar system. There is no evidence of intelligent extraterrestrial life in our solar system. There are also severe theological problems with intelligent extraterrestrial life in any capacity, so it would be the burden of proof of those that believe in extraterrestrial life to prove it.

[moostraks]

I think you would have the burden of proof concerning them being in our solar system. There is no evidence of intelligent extraterrestrial life in our solar system. There are also severe theological problems with intelligent extraterrestrial life in any capacity, so it would be the burden of proof of those that believe in extraterrestrial life to prove it.

I don't have the burden of proof as I have nothing to prove here, it isn't my battle.:) Until I become an e.t. or have the pleasure of having contact I refrain from definative judgement on the issue.

Some might beg to differ with your opinion on there being no evidence of e.t. life. Seems there is a generous number of people who exhaust large amounts of energy (and money) to try to drum up evidence for those lacking their same convictions on the matter. While it may not be enough for you or other sceptics for some they have found something that inspires them to persevere.

Many issues of now scientific knowledge started with a conviction or a thought. Just because we may not now possess the means to quantify that which does not easily present itself does not exclude the possibilty of there being more to this universe.

What theology do you embrace that would be so tortured by extraterrestrial life? (And why would your convictions place an extraneous burden on proof?) I tend to avoid absolutes unless they involve me and a matter I have complete control over...

Also curious, do you subscribe to the mindset of time being strictly linear??

[pcosmar]

I expect that the Fallen Angels(demons) that were cast to earth will "reveal" themselves as "aliens".
Just another deception from the Great Deceiver.

just my take on it.

I might add to this, That they are portrayed as reptile. So was the deceiver in the garden of Eden. a serpent.
And also
Isaiah 27:1

In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
The theme of the tattoo on my back ;)

[nate895]

What theology do you embrace that would be so tortured by extraterrestrial life? (And why would your convictions place an extraneous burden on proof?) I tend to avoid absolutes unless they involve me and a matter I have complete control over...

Also curious, do you subscribe to the mindset of time being strictly linear??

I am a Calvinist (my avatar is John Calvin, btw), and the whole foundation upon which Christ's propitiatory atonement is based is the original sin of Adam. All sinned in Adam, and because we are descended from him, we are perfectly represented by him. In order to be saved by Christ, one must be related to Him, hence Christ's taking on of a human nature. Also, because Adam sinned, the entire creation groans and all die (Romans 5:12, Romans 8:19-22). That would mean, if there is intelligent alien, they would die without hope of salvation despite being made in the image of God (reasoning faculties are one main aspect of the image of God).

And, yes, I believe time is strictly linear, starting at creation and ending at the Final Judgment.

[moostraks]

I am a Calvinist (my avatar is John Calvin, btw), and the whole foundation upon which Christ's propitiatory atonement is based is the original sin of Adam. All sinned in Adam, and because we are descended from him, we are perfectly represented by him. In order to be saved by Christ, one must be related to Him, hence Christ's taking on of a human nature. Also, because Adam sinned, the entire creation groans and all die (Romans 5:12, Romans 8:19-22). That would mean, if there is intelligent alien, they would die without hope of salvation despite being made in the image of God (reasoning faculties are one main aspect of the image of God).

And, yes, I believe time is strictly linear, starting at creation and ending at the Final Judgment.

Ahhh...We are diametrically opposed in philosophy. I am Arminian in regards to most basic tenants.And I don't to the belief that time is linear. A conversation on philosophy between us would be like 2 people who agree we have grass underfoot but can't agree on the color.

I think the Bible is the story of man and his relationship with his Creator. A Dr.Spock's book for humankind. I don't in any way think it explains everything there is to know in the universe or in the spiritual realm.

I do not inform my children of everything that goes on in the world around them until they are able to comprehend and need to know. I assume our Creator would treat us in much the same fashion.

I see Adam and the Fall as an allegory for mankind's physical condition. Limited to the condition of mankind and descriptive of the tangible items in our sphere of reference. In no way could I fathom it being a conditional situation for the eternity of all beings in all realms. I could not rationalize (comprehend) a loving Creator that could punish all beings for the fault of one renegade entity. I can understand the concept behind the allegory, though, much like the parables which were to be interpreted on another level.

So where are angelic beings in the scheme of things, in your opinion?

I don't think I am communicating effectively regarding the issues of aliens, either. I think the possibilty of us frameworking spiritual beings as e.t.'s is a possibilty. An order out of chaos manifestation of man's need to label and define everything. (Not all claims of e.t's but maybe some)

I also believe something akin to Project Bluebeam could be a possibilty. Considering the level of irrationality that passes for rational nowadays it doesn't seem entirely outside of the realm of possibilty in regards to those in seats of power.

[tribute_13]

For anyone who's seen the original V series, the aliens are malevolent, there is a spiritual connotation initially that they are fooled into thinking the aliens have god-like qualities and can heal and cure diseases. Humanity replaces God with V, on the other hand, there is actually a surge of people turning to God out of desperation because they aren't sure whether to trust the Visitors or to turn their back on them.

I think its ridiculous to think that TPTB are using V as a program to prepare humanity for the revealing of genuine alien life as an attempt to put humanity on the stage to replace God with alien life. If they wanted people to replace God with aliens they wouldnt use a show that shows aliens as deceivers and evil because it seems counter-productive. Especially when the show portrays the results of trusting the V's. The V's enslave earth and harvest the planet for water, minerals and save a few of us as laborers. I think you're seeing more than there actually is.

[tpreitzel]

For anyone who's seen the original V series, the aliens are malevolent, there is a spiritual connotation initially that they are fooled into thinking the aliens have god-like qualities and can heal and cure diseases. Humanity replaces God with V, on the other hand, there is actually a surge of people turning to God out of desperation because they aren't sure whether to trust the Visitors or to turn their back on them.

I think its ridiculous to think that TPTB are using V as a program to prepare humanity for the revealing of genuine alien life as an attempt to put humanity on the stage to replace God with alien life. If they wanted people to replace God with aliens they wouldnt use a show that shows aliens as deceivers and evil because it seems counter-productive. Especially when the show portrays the results of trusting the V's. The V's enslave earth and harvest the planet for water, minerals and save a few of us as laborers. I think you're seeing more than there actually is.

I never saw the original series so I can't comment. However, in the new series, not all aliens are apparently alike. If "TPTB" can't eliminate total distrust of "aliens", then create a scenario where some "aliens" can be trusted because of the apparent "need" to recruit them as allies in a larger war. Regardless of the situational ethics, both "good" and "bad" aliens are still aliens. For example, in the Bible, God constantly rebukes His people for allying themselves with their enemies instead of God, because their enemies' "idols" frequently became a trap for His people. Similarly, the new series apparently promotes the idea that humanity needs the help of the "good" aliens in order to gain victory over the "bad" aliens. Will the "good" aliens eventually become a snare for humanity? In historical practice, allying oneself with an enemy rarely leads to permanent relief. On a political level, our movement to restore constitutional liberty should duly note the potential for disappointment when allying ourselves with our enemies. Where will the new series take us? Time will tell. ;)

[tpreitzel]

"They have me... No fear, no uncontrollable destiny ..." and the ceremony of Bliss really accentuate the spiritual connotations of this series. These words sound similar to the epithets of a corrupt leader attempting to rally his troops for battle. Does Anna have the power to fulfill the destiny of her species as she vainly asserts? Apparently, Anna NEEDS an armada to fulfill her boastful words. ;)

What role will the dupe, Tyler, play? Will Tyler snap out of his slumber?

[Flash]

I can't really make the concepts clearer. One interpretation of the incident in the Garden of Eden comes from Dr. Michael S. Heiser, www.michaelsheiser.com (http://www.michaelsheiser.com) , and concerns the luminous being in the Garden of Eden that Christianity commonly associates with Lucifer. Basically, Dr. Heiser argues that the common interpretation of serpent (Hebrew noun) should be rendered as "the shiny one" (Hebrew adjective). * You'll have to do some research or contact Michael directly. He's pretty approachable.

* http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geunkA0vxKHX8BSgZrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=124jrui4f/EXP=1258169216/**http%3a//www.thedivinecouncil.com/nachashnotes.pdf




In ancient mythology, specifically Middle Eastern myths, the snake is meant to symbolize Wisdom. My understanding of the 'mythology' is Adam & Eve (Humanity) picked wisdom (Serpent) over Yahweh (Demiurge, which is a flawed creator-God).
Kind of an interesting take on it.

[nate895]

In ancient mythology, specifically Middle Eastern myths, the snake is meant to symbolize Wisdom. My understanding of the 'mythology' is Adam & Eve (Humanity) picked wisdom (Serpent) over Yahweh (Demiurge, which is a flawed creator-God).
Kind of an interesting take on it.

That's the pagan way of looking at things. Fundamentally speaking, it is what every non-Christian believes. In reality, the Bible clearly demonstrates that the serpent was selected because Eve was deceived by the serpent into thinking that she could determine the truth of reality, when in reality that is the choice of God, and God alone.

Satan (i.e., the serpent) presented Adam and Eve with two hypotheses: Either God is right and God alone (as God claims), or man determines the ultimate reality of the situation. Adam chose the latter, which caused God to demonstrate that He was in fact in control of the situation of truth deciding by cursing the world. The plan of salvation under the Covenant of Grace was then enacted in order for God to demonstrate His infinite love, mercy, justice, and holiness, etc.

[tpreitzel]

In ancient mythology, specifically Middle Eastern myths, the snake is meant to symbolize Wisdom. My understanding of the 'mythology' is Adam & Eve (Humanity) picked wisdom (Serpent) over Yahweh (Demiurge, which is a flawed creator-God).
Kind of an interesting take on it.

I can readily see how the "snake" is symbolic of "wisdom" in much ancient literature, e.g. gnostic occultism. The snake appears in much ancient statuary found on the island of Crete as well as elsewhere around the world. Dr. Heiser interprets the "snake" as the "shiny one". Either interpretation, i.e. snake or shiny one, sees the entity in the Garden of Eden as highly intelligent and deceptive. If one views "knowledge" based on structured languages as a generally good thing, I can readily see how the "wisdom of knowledge" would be interpreted as generally favorable and acceptable by many humans. Look at humanity today. Knowledge based on language is everywhere. Many people attempt to separate knowledge based on languages into common and esoteric categories, e.g. science and the occult. Personally, I see no artificial distinction. I see ALL knowledge garnered from structured languages similarly and generally unfavorably. Knowledge based on languages rules our lives. If there is a sovereign God, i.e. Yahweh, did He want our lives to be ruled by these imparted "gifts of knowledge" based on structured languages? Are we really better off as a result? Personally, I think humanity needs to seriously and honestly review the effects of knowledge based on structured languages. Granted, without God, knowledge based on structured languages is apparently mandatory, but none of us have actually experienced the fullness of paradise as illustrated by the New Jerusalem (Garden of Eden 2) to be capable of honestly selecting one or the other. IMO, reborn Christians have tasted paradise as a glimpse of things to come, but are not fully immersed in it, i.e. Christians retain a dying physical body due to a divine curse upon creation in general. Lastly, I use the term "structured" to separate languages understandable by the conscious mind from languages incomprehensible to the conscious mind, e.g. the biblical concept of tongues.

The non-canonical Book of Enoch delves into considerable detail about the the origin of "knowledge" (black arts) imparted to humanity. Personally, I even view structured languages as part of the "knowledge" imparted to humanity although I don't explicitly read my interpretation in the words of Enoch. Have you ever noticed thoughts as a significant source of evil? Before we act inappropriately, we have a verbal representation of the act to follow. My hypothesis (possibly flawed) stems from both experience and the the possibility that structured languages were a "black art" taught to humanity by rebellious "angelic" entities. True, humanity had the capability of learning structured languages from his advent, but the knowledge likely had to be imparted from someone. For example, when I pray to Jesus Christ in a structured language, e.g. English, I notice shortly thereafter by events that this prayer was very likely overheard by entities other than Jesus Christ. Granted, some would say the events are circumstantial, but that possibility is nearly nil in my mind due to the prevalence of these events. Consequently, when I pray, I try to just mindlessly (consciously) babble * and trust Jesus Christ knows the heart. We humans can fool ourselves by our linguistic games, but not a God who can read the motives of the heart. Other entities listening to the prayer won't understand the babble. How can I be sure that my mindless babble isn't adversely influenced by evil since even I can't comprehend it? I can't. Even if I prayed using a structured language, I can still deceive myself with words, but not a God who can read the heart. Consequently, I consider the use of mindless babble in prayer as considerably more helpful than potentially harmful. After the exile from the Garden of Eden, God simply used these structured languages to impart spiritual knowledge in the form of inspired books, i.e. the Holy Bible. God would have preferred humanity remain in His presence thereby eliminating the need for communicating with Him via a structured language.


* Biblical tongues originates from God, not the will of humans. I wouldn't necessarily equate my mindless babble to biblical tongues, but I trust God to know my motives without informing Him using a structured language. I see positive effects from praying in "tongues" as both my conscious mind and potentially other entities can't comprehend the communication.