For those of you counting on RP to run in 2012

[Matthew Zak]

First of all, the movement depends a LOT more on us than it does on him. That's the message he is trying to send us. If we still depend on him in 2012 than we haven't learned or achieved a thing.

Find some positivity in the event that he does not run. It's crucial for the movement that you anticipate, plan, and not give up on the movement if he decides that he won't run. He didn't want to run last time when he was fresh out of his 60's. Now he'll be closer to his 80's.

[Icymudpuppy]

Some people here have idol worship.

I have made a personal request to Dr. Paul to let us know if he intends to run or not so we can begin organizing our efforts.

If he names a successor with good credentials, it will be easier to mobilize the idol worshippers.

[JasonC]

I like Gary Johnsons a lot, but i am unsure of his debating abilities.

[Icymudpuppy]

I'm sure there must be some documentation of his debates with other Governor candidates in the New Mexico elections he has won. Try a google search. I bet you can find something if you dig a little.

[Meatwasp]

Some people here have idol worship.

I have made a personal request to Dr. Paul to let us know if he intends to run or not so we can begin organizing our efforts.

If he names a successor with good credentials, it will be easier to mobilize the idol worshippers.

Idol worshippers my foot. We finally found an honest decent intellegent man to vote for. They are rare indeedy and we hang like pitbulls to someone like him as he is a rare human being.

[Matthew Zak]

Idol worshippers my foot. We finally found an honest decent intellegent man to vote for. They are rare indeedy and we hang like pitbulls to someone like him as he is a rare human being.

Perhaps he means to inspire us to walk with him, not hang on him? What in the world will we do when he dies? Give up? We need to act as if he's not here at all. We need to take this thing over, and I mean right now.

[JoshLowry]

Idol worshipers my foot. We finally found an honest decent intellegent man to vote for.

Going to have to agree with this one.

:)

Idol worshipers is pretty insulting.

[JoshLowry]

Perhaps he means to inspire us to walk with him, not hang on him? What in the world will we do when he dies? Give up? We need to act as if he's not here at all. We need to take this thing over, and I mean right now.

He has said himself that it is about the ideas, not the man. We've even made the move from RPF to LF.

Of course we won't give up.

Acting like he isn't here would be refusing to take advantage of his name recognition. Use it while he is still able to carry the torch.

[BillyDkid]

Going to have to agree with this one.

:)

Idol worshipers is pretty insulting.Yes, it reminds me of the way some people call Ron's following a "cult of personality" - good God almighty, I love the man, but he is far from the most exciting personality on earth. What distinguishes him is his intelligence, his honesty and his unwillingness to ever do anything except tell the truth. It is ALL about the ideas and he is virtually the only one on the national political stage expressing them. It strikes me that some, even in the movement, don't get it anymore than those mocking us from the outside get it.

[Icymudpuppy]

Idol worshipers is pretty insulting.

Truth hurts.

[JoshLowry]

Truth hurts.

Rubbish.

It's not idol worship. Going gaga over Obama or Romney because they love the way they look, their personalities, and the way they speak is idolization.

Ron Paul supporters would be the anti-thesis of that. We love the ideas he represents.

[DjLoTi]

Personally I feel that it is likely he is considering of running again. I think his chances of winning are great. I do agree with you that (somewhat) it is up to us, and not him or his campaign. However, with the whole 'c4l' thing and the general demeanor of the campaign, the tendency is for them to isolate the general populous, garnering them a supporter-dependent 4-15% of the vote (using 2008 as an example). While both Ron Paul and I agree that it will be better the 2nd time around, I personally find it unlikely that Ron Paul or his campaign will aggressively assemble a 'big-party tent' and will find itself battling within its own ranks and base of supporters, typical of libertarians. That, coupled with the 'remnant' philosophy, as well as the independent approach of the campaign to provide their own foundation for this 'movement' (c4l), ultimately (to me) gives the indication of a republican nomination won by Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee (2 very strong candidates now and for 2012)

[Meatwasp]

Truth hurts.

Horse feathers!!

[klamath]

I don't even know if I even want RP to run as I am not sure he wants the top executive post in the world but If he picks up the flag it means he is putting his finial years on line doing something he will hate but for liberty and for that I will stand shoulder to shoulder with him.

[JamesButabi]

Ron Paul wasn't on national TV every week prior to 2008. Nor was he conducting school seminars and rallys. There was no CFL, no YAL, no freedom watch. Ask the members of the Mises institute about their transformation since the run. Majority of Americans didnt even know the name Ron Paul. I didn't even know Ron Paul existed until weeks before the primaries. 2008 isn't even a blip compared to what Ron Paul is currently today.

I ask you, whats your number? If Ron Paul ran in 2012, how many people could you honestly get to vote for him that you didn't last time. My number is about 30 just in my normal contacts. How many more motivated people do you think were late to the party like myself in 2008? I think people are out of their minds if they think a RP 2012 run would mirror a 2008 run.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Ron Paul wasn't on national TV every week prior to 2008. Nor was he conducting school seminars and rallys. There was no CFL, no YAL, no freedom watch. Ask the members of the Mises institute about their transformation since the run. Majority of Americans didnt even know the name Ron Paul. I didn't even know Ron Paul existed until weeks before the primaries. 2008 isn't even a blip compared to what Ron Paul is currently today.

I ask you, whats your number? If Ron Paul ran in 2012, how many people could you honestly get to vote for him that you didn't last time. My number is about 30 just in my normal contacts. How many more motivated people do you think were late to the party like myself in 2008? I think people are out of their minds if they think a RP 2012 run would mirror a 2008 run.

Amen! I'm slowly getting my parents around to him (or at least trying lol). Other than that, I can easily get 4-5 people at work for him just on the Anti-War drum alone. (Mind you, I'm in the Military)

I think if he runs he has a very good shot.

[brandon]

Ron Paul supporters would be the anti-thesis of that. We love the ideas he represents.

It is more than just the ideas though.

Ron Paul's humility, integrity, honesty, courage and morals make him one in a million.

Show me another man that matches up to Ron Paul in all of these areas and I will gladly support him for the highest office in the land.

[DjLoTi]

Amen! I'm slowly getting my parents around to him (or at least trying lol). Other than that, I can easily get 4-5 people at work for him just on the Anti-War drum alone. (Mind you, I'm in the Military)

I think if he runs he has a very good shot.

Oh man. I remember when the end of nov-dec rolled around and it seemed like *everybody* was saying this. It's funny, now that I look at it, maybe RP does have a shot if enough people really do it. But then again, this attitude is great for a presidential election, but it's the nomination RP really has 2 win

[JoshLowry]

Oh man. I remember when the end of nov-dec rolled around and it seemed like *everybody* was saying this. It's funny, now that I look at it, maybe RP does have a shot if enough people really do it. But then again, this attitude is great for a presidential election, but it's the nomination RP really has 2 win

What's the left gonna do? Run a non-interventionist?

Haha... :)

[DjLoTi]

haha... well we know it'll be Obama. You know, we could probably convince some normally democratic voters to vote for RP... I mean I guess it's true, none of the other republicans come close to being free-spirited or anti-war. lol.. Yeah I mean it's like we could get everybody 2 vote RP....

[amy31416]

Prior to Obama gaining steam, we did have the "idol worshiper" type, especially around mid-late 2007. I believe that most of them went with Obama when he started gaining steam and his cult of personality started to shine. These people were also known as "Paultards" and "Paulbots" for their amazing spamming abilities.

Every movement has some semblance of adoration for their fearless leader, I happen to think we have far less of that in our current state, but that's what often gets people elected. I don't worship Ron Paul or anyone else, but I do admire him and it's not because of his looks, his glib speeches or any other superficial reason. If you'd like to call that "idol worship," have at it.

[Cowlesy]

I don't even know if I even want RP to run as I am not sure he wants the top executive post in the world but If he picks up the flag it means he is putting his finial years on line doing something he will hate but for liberty and for that I will stand shoulder to shoulder with him.

Well said.

If he runs, it's because he saw how many people he reached in his 2008 run, and so he'd like to do another movement expansion.

That being said, he won't run to win. He'll run to educate.

[Elwar]

Truth hurts.

Poppycock!


sorry...I felt that was needed...

[klamath]

Well said.

If he runs, it's because he saw how many people he reached in his 2008 run, and so he'd like to do another movement expansion.

That being said, he won't run to win. He'll run to educate.

Well I might have thought this before but his recent trips to Iowa and SC are not the actions of someone just wanting to spread the message. He could have just done another national TV show and reached more people. Targeting those states this early are signs of putting together a winning campaign.

[Original_Intent]

I think if RP runs again it will be to win and the country just might be ready.

If he doesn't I don't expect him to name a successor although he may give someone his endorsement. I do not think he will name a successor because I honestly feel that he wants us to use our own brains and not be hanging on his every word on what we should do next or who we should support.

I weighed his endorsement because I value his judgement, but truth is I was already leaning toward Baldwin and probably would have supported him even if RP had endorsed Barr. (Please do not let this lead to a Baldwin vs. Barr derail, it was to provide a point not reignite THAT flame war).

And the point is I think RP is pretty disappointed that people keep turning to him for guidance, I think he is willing to offer his advice but he refuses to become a dictator or to do our thinking for us (even for those among us who would gladly be his mindless drones!) H realizes the only thing that is going to save this country is a thinking generation or at least a remnant that understands the principles and can fight for them indiependently without direction from above (because anything otherwise is just asking for the head to be cut off by our enemies)!

[Old Ducker]

Some people here have idol worship.

I have made a personal request to Dr. Paul to let us know if he intends to run or not so we can begin organizing our efforts.

If he names a successor with good credentials, it will be easier to mobilize the idol worshippers.

Simply because there is no comparable figure of national stature and impeccable credentials to Dr. Paul does not constitute "idol worship." I see no evidence of such...no emblems or logos, no personality cult, no armbands, no loyalty oaths...

[Chester Copperpot]

I hope he runs again for the education of the masses.. Ive learned lots from watching him and I thought I knew everything hah... Now that the media shows him in a decent light more people will have open minds and will be listening to what he says.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I weighed his endorsement because I value his judgement, but truth is I was already leaning toward Baldwin and probably would have supported him even if RP had endorsed Barr. (Please do not let this lead to a Baldwin vs. Barr derail, it was to provide a point not reignite THAT flame war).





OOPS!

http://www.chs.org/graphcoll/images/1995_36_1304.jpg

-t

[DjLoTi]

Ron Paul is somewhat of an idol. He's the man that can save our country. He's the only person that'll do it. It's just factual, it's not an imaginary scenario. He's the only person that really will get our country going in the right direction, almost immediately. The question is "is america ready?" and are we ready to reach out, and able to reach out to enough people in enough time, because we really have to win the first few states.... that's really the most important thing.....

[MozoVote]

I hope Ron Paul will not repeat Ross Perot's mistake - creating a movement that was bound too tightly with the man. Perot destroyed what he had created, by alternating between meddlesome and inattentive. I still like Perot's message, frankly - but the guy himself was too flawed a personality, to lead the country.

[pcosmar]

Ron Paul is somewhat of an idol. He's the man that can save our country. He's the only person that'll do it. It's just factual, it's not an imaginary scenario. He's the only person that really will get our country going in the right direction, almost immediately. The question is "is america ready?" and are we ready to reach out, and able to reach out to enough people in enough time, because we really have to win the first few states.... that's really the most important thing.....

:D Nice to see you here.
I am up for it if it happens.
though I expect to be fighting Blue Hats by 2012.

We'll see. :cool:

[Romulus]

Just image a debate between RP and Obama...

can you say OWNED

[Mini-Me]

I think the focus on Ron Paul has much less to do with idol worship and much more to do with the fact that we currently have no other blueprint for putting our differences aside and uniting around a common goal, without everyone pulling every which way and infighting. I mean, before Ron Paul's run, nobody was able to unite voters from the Libertarian and Constitution Parties under the same platform, let alone bring in a big tent of disgruntled conservatives and liberals. Original_Intent actually made a good point bringing up Barr vs. Baldwin: Barr vs. Baldwin is a PERFECT example of the kind of thing we do to ourselves in the absence of leadership. We split into camps that each rally behind a candidate that alienates another camp, and then we're no longer a united movement but a bunch of squabbling infighters going nowhere.

Here's the problem: A winner-takes-all election based on a plurality vote is NOT the free market. Election campaigns require UNITY, and without centralized leadership, this is extremely difficult to achieve. An argument I wrote a week and a half ago is pretty much a drop-in for this post:


In the free market, there's pretty much no such thing as too much competition, primarily because every consumer receives exactly what they vote for (and the more competition there is, the more each competitor must try to please the consumer in order to get such a vote).

However, in a winner-takes-all environment based on a plurality vote, competitors with only minor differences between them will split the vote of otherwise like-minded voters...and this can allow everyone involved to receive someone very undesirable instead of ANY of the people they like. The vote-splitting effect is a known problem with plurality voting, and it's precisely why our political system degenerated into a "lowest common denominator" two-party system almost immediately after the country's Founding.

The fact is, the election system is rigged in favor of people and groups with strong centralized focal points. In the free market, we can all do our own thing and everybody still wins (or at least, not everyone loses). In a winner-takes-all election with a plurality vote, we absolutely must "join or die." If Hillary Clinton had not directed her supporters to unite behind Obama, do you think Obama's win would have been so assured? If Hillary Clinton had been spiteful towards Obama, the Democrats would have been running around infighting the day of the election, like chickens with their heads cut off.

We MUST all work toward the same goal if we wish to succeed, but the only way to reliably settle on a common goal - even if some people have reservations about it - is centralized leadership. Ron Paul is rare in the sense that so many people can rally behind him without reservation, and that's what makes people so hopeful about him in particular, not "idol worship." In the absence of such an "obvious choice" with such star power, we essentially need to come up with a "party infrastructure," where it's generally assumed that everyone should unite around the nominee the "party" picked, even if they have personal reservations about it. This is how the Republicans and Democrats unite their bases behind candidates that very few consider their favorite. As far as I know, it is the only long-term method of uniting our own base, without constantly relying on the star power of an "idol."

Of course, this is a large part of the reason why we've always failed at politics in the first place: The election system works against the strengths of hardcore individualists, and it is designed in a way that greatly favors hive minds. Despite our individualist nature, we must find a way to organize and behave like a hive mind, or we must concede defeat on the electoral battlefield. Decentralized and creative execution is one of our greatest strengths, but in order to harness it, we at least first need a common goal.
(Actually, even if we focus on "elections for education" alone, rather than actually trying to win, this problem is still an obstacle to getting behind people enough to get them in debates.)

[idirtify]

That being said, he won't run to win. He'll run to educate.

Maybe that should be an RP 2012 logo:

“Don’t vote to win. Vote to Educate!”

And maybe the reverse psychology will get the would-be voters beyond their usual excuse; “because he won’t win”.

[dr. hfn]

Any Liberty Candidate 2012!

[RM918]

So long as he learns from the last election and doesn't hire the same failure of a campaign he did last time, which unfortunately is what I think will happen. Unfortunately, a bad side-effect of his humility is that he's not so eager to cut his loyalties with people that are dragging the whole thing down just because they've been with him a long time.

[klamath]

So long as he learns from the last election and doesn't hire the same failure of a campaign he did last time, which unfortunately is what I think will happen. Unfortunately, a bad side-effect of his humility is that he's not so eager to cut his loyalties with people that are dragging the whole thing down just because they've been with him a long time.

Elwar; case in point.

[familydog]

First of all, the movement depends a LOT more on us than it does on him. That's the message he is trying to send us. If we still depend on him in 2012 than we haven't learned or achieved a thing.

Find some positivity in the event that he does not run. It's crucial for the movement that you anticipate, plan, and not give up on the movement if he decides that he won't run. He didn't want to run last time when he was fresh out of his 60's. Now he'll be closer to his 80's.

Thank you.

It could be argued that the people who will only vote for Ron Paul are just as dangerous as the sheeple supporting the current status quo.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Thank you.

It could be argued that the people who will only vote for Ron Paul are just as dangerous as the sheeple supporting the current status quo.

No one here is saying they will ONLY vote for Ron Paul. We are saying that we are going to only vote for Ron Paul as the GOP candidate because there is literally no other GOP candidate that runs on the exact same platform. That's why I said, if he doesn't get the nod I'm voting LP unless they nominate another Bob Barr reject. Mary Ruwart or Ron Paul are my two choices...

Now can you find me where people are saying they are only going to vote for Ron Paul?

[Matthew Zak]

Ron Paul wasn't on national TV every week prior to 2008. Nor was he conducting school seminars and rallys. There was no CFL, no YAL, no freedom watch. Ask the members of the Mises institute about their transformation since the run. Majority of Americans didnt even know the name Ron Paul. I didn't even know Ron Paul existed until weeks before the primaries. 2008 isn't even a blip compared to what Ron Paul is currently today.

I ask you, whats your number? If Ron Paul ran in 2012, how many people could you honestly get to vote for him that you didn't last time. My number is about 30 just in my normal contacts. How many more motivated people do you think were late to the party like myself in 2008? I think people are out of their minds if they think a RP 2012 run would mirror a 2008 run.

In 2008 they LOVED having Ron Paul on tv because even then he guaranteed many viewers. They just didn't want to take him seriously as a presidential candidate. They marginalized him until he was a joke to the establishment, and thus the sheeple who subscribe to them. Nothing has changed. If the election were this year they wouldn't invite Ron Paul to the debate. They would ask him stupid questions like, "Shouldn't you be with the democrats?" etc etc etc. He knows this.

We need to remove his name from this movement. He'd prefer that. Prove me wrong.

[klamath]

In 2008 they LOVED having Ron Paul on tv because even then he guaranteed many viewers. They just didn't want to take him seriously as a presidential candidate. They marginalized him until he was a joke to the establishment, and thus the sheeple who subscribe to them. Nothing has changed. If the election were this year they wouldn't invite Ron Paul to the debate. They would ask him stupid questions like, "Shouldn't you be with the democrats?" etc etc etc. He knows this.

We need to remove his name from this movement. He'd prefer that. Prove me wrong.

And the drumbeat grows louder.

[DjLoTi]

That's the problem. Ron Paul and his campaign are on a different 'movement' then we are. In order to be truly successful, we need to compromise under one movement and do our best to include all others with the republican conservative philosophy, as well as strategic politicking, something the campaign was not very good at doing last time =/ :P :)

[WClint]

First of all, the movement depends a LOT more on us than it does on him. That's the message he is trying to send us. If we still depend on him in 2012 than we haven't learned or achieved a thing.

Find some positivity in the event that he does not run. It's crucial for the movement that you anticipate, plan, and not give up on the movement if he decides that he won't run. He didn't want to run last time when he was fresh out of his 60's. Now he'll be closer to his 80's.

Well thats okay he can pick rand for his VP. And after 2 terms of Ron Paul it will Rands turn 2020. Its called the Ron Paul forums not the libertarian forums if you dont like it you can go elsewhere.

[klamath]

Any major movement is made up of many many different groups that form a coalition in a common cause however this is the RP group and when it no longer is I will take my leave and just join GOP.com. Whether we like it or not we are in already in a coalition against the incumbent democrats that control of the whole governement.

[rprprs]

He has said himself that it is about the ideas, not the man. We've even made the move from RPF to LF.

Of course we won't give up.

Acting like he isn't here would be refusing to take advantage of his name recognition. Use it while he is still able to carry the torch.

And... long thereafter, IMHO.

Do I worship the man? Yes, and for good reason.

So go ahead, call me an idol worshiper. It won't faze me one iota.

[reardenstone]

Idol worshippers my foot. We finally found an honest decent intellegent man to vote for. They are rare indeedy and we hang like pitbulls to someone like him as he is a rare human being.

If we don't have RP who else do we have? There are others who he has endorsed but none near the recognition, experience, demeanor RP has.

I like Rand Paul and he seems to have learned well from his pop. If he could win in 2010, maybe he could win in a future race for the oval office.


Tangent: What kinds of backgrounds are most sought after for future politicians?
I used to think that everyone had to have a background in law, but other education can work as well.

The truth is, the person must have a voice and physical appearance that is not offensive to behold. They must also sound intelligent and feel genuine. Note "homey" but as if they are believers in integrity.

RP is no Paul Newman (r.i.p. ...similar generation leading man) but he is genuinely a decent looking guy. How you want your dad to look when he is older and wiser.


My rambling point is this:
To some extent, looks, voice, and self made success pedigrees matter in the visual age.

Something to consider when picking candidates to oppose Obama.

[Number19]

Ron Paul is in the position of being an elder statesman, with 30 years of fighting for liberty with unbending integrity. No one commands more respect in our movement.

As someone who has also been in this fight over the past three decades, I know the value of a commanding personality, and make no mistake, in his quite way, Ron Paul has this. During this period, we have taken the message to the people. The problem is, we have never had the right personality at the right time.

Today is what Dr Paul's political career has been building toward, and there is no one else in America who can bring us all together and advance the cause, as he can at this moment.

We need one more campaign from the good doctor. After 1012 we can think about the future.

[klamath]

Ron Paul is in the position of being an elder statesman, with 30 years of fighting for liberty with unbending integrity. No one commands more respect in our movement.

As someone who has also been in this fight over the past three decades, I know the value of a commanding personality, and make no mistake, in his quite way, Ron Paul has this. During this period, we have taken the message to the people. The problem is, we have never had the right personality at the right time.

Today is what Dr Paul's political career has been building toward, and there is no one else in America who can bring us all together and advance the cause, as he can at this moment.

We need one more campaign from the good doctor. After 1012 we can think about the future.

Well said. After all these years of being the Casandra of the modern age the curse of the Gods may have been lifted as RP is and gaining a lot of respect and recognition. The banderlog that picked up the stick called RP and ran with it are now bored and want to move on to someone more exciting:(

[familydog]

No one here is saying they will ONLY vote for Ron Paul. We are saying that we are going to only vote for Ron Paul as the GOP candidate because there is literally no other GOP candidate that runs on the exact same platform. That's why I said, if he doesn't get the nod I'm voting LP unless they nominate another Bob Barr reject. Mary Ruwart or Ron Paul are my two choices...

Now can you find me where people are saying they are only going to vote for Ron Paul?

I wasn't necessarily talking about you.

Did you forget all the people who wrote in Ron Paul last election? I see no evidence they will not do the same if Paul does not choose to run in 2012.