25 Students Arrested After Food Fight

[BlackTerrel]

Wow. Our government has no money and yet they spend what little they do have on stuff like this? Perhaps if they legalized drugs and stopped being chicken shit cops and arresting everything that moves they would be better equipped to respond to real issues?

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/25-students-arrested-after-food-fight+


Chicago - Twenty five students, some as young as 11, were arrested Thursday after a food fight broke out in a cafeteria at a South Side charter school.

The arrests were made at the Calumet Perspectives Charter Schools Calumet campus about noon, according to police News Affairs Officer John Mirabelli. The school is listed at 8131 S. May St.

Twenty five students, ranging in age from 11 to 15, were taken into custody after a food fight erupted in the school cafeteria, Mirabelli said.

The students were taken to the Gresham District police station, where they were each charged with a misdemeanor count of reckless conduct and were released to the custody of their parents, Mirabelli said.

Police said three people were injured during the fight, although the extent of their injuries was unclear Friday night.

[revolutionisnow]

Most schools have an officer or two present, so not sure how they are spending more. 3 people injured doesn't sound like a prank that should be laughed off.

[0zzy]

back in my day...

[youngbuck]

stopped being chicken shit cops and arresting everything that moves they would be better equipped to respond to real issues?


I think you pretty much nailed it on the head right there.

[BlackTerrel]

Most schools have an officer or two present, so not sure how they are spending more. 3 people injured doesn't sound like a prank that should be laughed off.

What kind of injuries are we talking about here? Would have to be pretty severe to arrest an 11 year old no?

And of course this means they are spending more. They're taking all these kids to the station, processing them, and God knows what else.

A food fight, oh no, lock them away.

[ramallamamama]

No links to terrorists? I'm surprised.

[revolutionisnow]

What kind of injuries are we talking about here? Would have to be pretty severe to arrest an 11 year old no?

And of course this means they are spending more. They're taking all these kids to the station, processing them, and God knows what else.

A food fight, oh no, lock them away.

I'm sure misdemeanors have fines attached that will support any extra time required. We don't know how many times this has happened. And I don't know what kind of injuries, but they obviously thought it was bad enough to mention. I'm sure a carton of milk or plastic tray could injure someone if thrown at them. Sorry but I'm tired of way too many kids these days going to school to goof off and act up instead of learn.

[Dreamofunity]

I'd understand a suspension, but an arrest? wtf.

[Oyate]

No links to terrorists? I'm surprised.

I heard it was an Al Queda training camp.

[BlackTerrel]

I'm sure misdemeanors have fines attached that will support any extra time required. We don't know how many times this has happened. And I don't know what kind of injuries, but they obviously thought it was bad enough to mention. I'm sure a carton of milk or plastic tray could injure someone if thrown at them. Sorry but I'm tired of way too many kids these days going to school to goof off and act up instead of learn.

And your solution is to throw them in jail? Kids do stupid shit - that's why they're kids.

When I was a kid we'd play basketball/football after school every day. At least once a week there would be a fight. The kids would get their aggression out and then we'd drink a Gatorade and forget about it. Nowadays every little thing they call the police. Don't dare do anything barely out of line or they'll toss you in jail.

Here's the thing: I'm not anti-police. Police play an important role in any society. Otherwise there's chaos. But how about they focus all their energy and resources on the bad guys? How about they pay attention to the murderers and rapists and pedophiles and the guys on Wall Street ripping us all off?

And how about they stop pulling me over for going 70 MPH on the freeway at 2 AM when there's no one there. And they don't arrest Cheech for selling a bong. And they don't arrest an 11 year old for getting in a food fight.

This is a small incident but this highlights exactly what is wrong with this country. Too much emphasis on bullshit and not enough emphasis on what really matters.

[Danke]

How about they pay attention to the murderers and rapists and pedophiles and the guys on Wall Street ripping us all off?

And how about they stop pulling me over for going 70 MPH on the freeway at 2 AM when there's no one there. And they don't arrest Cheech for selling a bong. And they don't arrest an 11 year old for getting in a food fight.



""God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy"

[revolutionary8]

Originally Posted by ramallamamama

No links to terrorists? I'm surprised.


I heard it was an Al Queda training camp.

:D

Black Terrel:

Lemme guess,
you are not black, and you sure aint no "Terrel" :D
(Not that it matters anyway)

[ScoutsHonor]

How about a 5 yr. old kid handcuffed and put in jail?:eek:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/01/25/2008-01-25_5yearold_boy_handcuffed_in_school_taken_.html

It's outrageous, right?
But bein as how I'm a conspiracy theorist, i.e. I make logical connections ;)
I believe there's method to these events. They make people uneasy, make them feel the authorities (the ones with power over them!) are menacing or retarded, and all of this in turn is *very upsetting.*

Now, who do you think it would make happy if Americans become more and more uneasy and disturbed?

Answer: Those who wish to retain *power* over us. Remind you of anything?

/Conspiracy theory off/ ;):cool:

[BlackTerrel]

How about a 5 yr. old kid handcuffed and put in jail?:eek:

[/URL][URL]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/01/25/2008-01-25_5yearold_boy_handcuffed_in_school_taken_.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/01/25/2008-01-25_5yearold_boy_handcuffed_in_school_taken_.html)

According to the story this five year old was accused of "throwing a tantrum". They should put him in the hole for a week.

[BlackTerrel]

Originally Posted by ramallamamama




:D

Black Terrel:

Lemme guess,
you are not black, and you sure aint no "Terrel" :D
(Not that it matters anyway)

Why is everyone doubting me all of a sudden? Do I need to post my driver's license? Registered in CA :)

[eOs]

Arrested for a food fight? ....

[olehounddog]

OOOHHHHH I got pie in my eye. I got pie in my eye. rofl
Remember it's fun till somebody gets an eye put out.

[AutoDas]

Answer: Those who wish to retain *power* over us. Remind you of anything?

damn white people

ami right?

[coyote_sprit]

According to the story this five year old was accused of "throwing a tantrum". They should put him in the hole for a week.

They euthanize him as well, and if that's a little to extreme then we need to atleast sterilize him. For all we know this tantrum thing may be recessive, if we do sterilize him then we should also do the same to his mother and father and if they are married end the marriage, or kill the father, this child most likely learned this tantrum thing from his father.

[catdd]

30 days in Camp Fema.

[coyote_sprit]

30 days in Camp Fema.

Too bad we light the oven every Sunday.

[Anti Federalist]

Why is everyone doubting me all of a sudden? Do I need to post my driver's license? Registered in CA :)

Your real name isn't Corey by any chance, is it?

[BlackTerrel]

Your real name isn't Corey by any chance, is it?

Actually it is Lance :D

[MelissaWV]

*shrugs* I'd need to see more information on what constitutes a "food fight" and what the "injuries" were. The kids were arrested, charged, and released. They're not in jail. There's probably going to be a fine associated with it, and the school might take additional action. Extreme? Maybe a little; depends. Is this a "food fight" where we're just throwing pies as someone else said, or is it a "food fight" including hot food, cutlery, chairs, whatever else? Did someone get a split lip, or did someone end up knocked out? Not enough information.

What I do find very fishy is the sheer number of students processed. It seems highly doubtful that ALL of them were EQUALLY guilty of causing injury and destruction of property. That last point should give people pause. "Back in your day" yeah, people got into fights, but you would also expect that if you wrecked the cafeteria, someone would have to pay for it or clean it up. That someone was going to be you, or your blood relative :p

[Pants]

This is where Public Schools suck.. The fact of the matter is I was bullied very badly when I was a kid.. I did my best to report it.. My parents did their best to report it.. One who bullied me eventually murdered his grand mother at the age of 17 and will never be free again.. The other Murdered at the age of 25 and he's toast for life.. The one who murdered at the age of 17 was in my opinion was a danger to be in school from the get go since he was 12.. He should have been pulled out of class well before he killed someone..

I would guess the Police had to get involved.. I'm sure the teachers have some union rules and the officers at the school had some union rules where teachers couldn't assist.. Its silly with all the teachers, lunch room workers, nobody could handle 25 kids...


*shrugs* I'd need to see more information on what constitutes a "food fight" and what the "injuries" were. The kids were arrested, charged, and released. They're not in jail. There's probably going to be a fine associated with it, and the school might take additional action. Extreme? Maybe a little; depends. Is this a "food fight" where we're just throwing pies as someone else said, or is it a "food fight" including hot food, cutlery, chairs, whatever else? Did someone get a split lip, or did someone end up knocked out? Not enough information.

What I do find very fishy is the sheer number of students processed. It seems highly doubtful that ALL of them were EQUALLY guilty of causing injury and destruction of property. That last point should give people pause. "Back in your day" yeah, people got into fights, but you would also expect that if you wrecked the cafeteria, someone would have to pay for it or clean it up. That someone was going to be you, or your blood relative :p

[jmdrake]

I'm sure misdemeanors have fines attached that will support any extra time required. We don't know how many times this has happened. And I don't know what kind of injuries, but they obviously thought it was bad enough to mention. I'm sure a carton of milk or plastic tray could injure someone if thrown at them. Sorry but I'm tired of way too many kids these days going to school to goof off and act up instead of learn.

Oh bull! This is nothing more than evidence of a growing out of control police state. They swatzis will break your arm for dropping a piece of cake on the ground.

YouTube - School Guards Break Child's Arm And Arrest Her (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk2b_twCCdw)

[jmdrake]

Here's the problem. Any real discipline has been taken out of the schools by stupid social engineering politicians. You can't spank. You can't even raise your voice. But you can call the cops. For ANYTHING! Food fight? Call the cops. A kindergarten child has a temper tantrum? Call the cops. Next cops will be called when a child chews gum in class.

YouTube - Black Girl Gets Put In Handcuffs By Police (Complete Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S0qQMts64M)

[Anti Federalist]

swatzis

Swatzis...Oh that is good!

I'm saying it three times and keeping it.

Swatzis. :mad:

[ScoutsHonor]

They euthanize him as well, and if that's a little to extreme then we need to atleast sterilize him. For all we know this tantrum thing may be recessive, if we do sterilize him then we should also do the same to his mother and father and if they are married end the marriage, or kill the father, this child most likely learned this tantrum thing from his father.

Lol! you've got it down pat. ;)

[ScoutsHonor]

damn white people

ami right?

Err, I think not...

;)

[LibertyEagle]

Here's the problem. Any real discipline has been taken out of the schools by stupid social engineering politicians. You can't spank. You can't even raise your voice. But you can call the cops. For ANYTHING! Food fight? Call the cops. A kindergarten child has a temper tantrum? Call the cops. Next cops will be called when a child chews gum in class.



EXACTLY! Bratty kid needed her butt spanked.

[catdd]

Surprised they didn't whip out the old tazer.

[BlackTerrel]

*shrugs* I'd need to see more information on what constitutes a "food fight" and what the "injuries" were. The kids were arrested, charged, and released.

They hauled 25 kids in what, a paddy wagon? Took them down to the station, procesed them, and charged them (with what? A food fight?) Kids get in a food fight - you give them detention, or suspend them, or whatever punishment is in these days. You don't call the cops.

Cops need to deal with the real criminals. Like murderers, and rapists, and fraud, and the asshole in the car in front of mine who won't turn right on red even when there's no car within a mile.

[Freedom 4 all]

This is insane. If I was a parent I'd yank my kids out of school and send them to one with sane policies or, if that's not possible homeschool.

[MelissaWV]

They hauled 25 kids in what, a paddy wagon? Took them down to the station, procesed them, and charged them (with what? A food fight?) Kids get in a food fight - you give them detention, or suspend them, or whatever punishment is in these days. You don't call the cops.

Cops need to deal with the real criminals. Like murderers, and rapists, and fraud, and the asshole in the car in front of mine who won't turn right on red even when there's no car within a mile.


I notice you neglected to quote the rest of the post. The reason I say it would be relevant is that there are regular ole food fights, and then there are those that involve other things. The media doesn't always get it right. In reviewing other stories related to this event, it seems that the police messed up bigtime and are likely going to see a lot of blowback on this. The kids were hanging out waiting for their parents for *five hours* which lends credence to your argument regarding the fact police should be doing something better. Not only were kids who had nothing to do with it likely rounded up, but the police then played babysitter for five hours.

I do hold, however, that there are circumstances where it's reasonable to "haul away" some kids. Those circumstances are very, very, very, very few. I also find it disgraceful the parents weren't called immediately. They should have been the ones dealing with their little darlings. There is also some ambiguity as to whether or not these misdemeanors will interfere with job or college applications, since they won't disappear from their records right away.

Unless my child could be shown, without any doubt, to have directly caused a pretty damned serious injury in this case, I would be on the war path. Even if my kid were guilty, I would still be upset about not being informed properly and timely. *sighs* I always like to give the benefit of time to things, but sometimes all the evidence arrows point in one direction.

[jmdrake]

I do hold, however, that there are circumstances where it's reasonable to "haul away" some kids. Those circumstances are very, very, very, very few. I also find it disgraceful the parents weren't called immediately. They should have been the ones dealing with their little darlings. There is also some ambiguity as to whether or not these misdemeanors will interfere with job or college applications, since they won't disappear from their records right away.


I'm pretty sure juvenile records are sealed unless the juvenile is charged as an adult, as a sex offender or for a traffic violation. I agree with you that the parents should have been immediately called. One thing I told my kids after the "aspirin strip search" case is if any adult tries to tell them they have to take off their clothes they should tell the adult they have to call me. Really parental contact should be ingrained in the law.

[BlackTerrel]

I notice you neglected to quote the rest of the post. The reason I say it would be relevant is that there are regular ole food fights, and then there are those that involve other things. The media doesn't always get it right. In reviewing other stories related to this event, it seems that the police messed up bigtime and are likely going to see a lot of blowback on this. The kids were hanging out waiting for their parents for *five hours* which lends credence to your argument regarding the fact police should be doing something better. Not only were kids who had nothing to do with it likely rounded up, but the police then played babysitter for five hours.

I do hold, however, that there are circumstances where it's reasonable to "haul away" some kids. Those circumstances are very, very, very, very few. I also find it disgraceful the parents weren't called immediately. They should have been the ones dealing with their little darlings. There is also some ambiguity as to whether or not these misdemeanors will interfere with job or college applications, since they won't disappear from their records right away.

Unless my child could be shown, without any doubt, to have directly caused a pretty damned serious injury in this case, I would be on the war path. Even if my kid were guilty, I would still be upset about not being informed properly and timely. *sighs* I always like to give the benefit of time to things, but sometimes all the evidence arrows point in one direction.

Well it looks like we are in agreement then. Cheers

[Pants]

My guess is there are liability issues now for a teacher "correcting" a student..

In some ways I think a majority of the Public School Teachers are the lowest common denominator in life. They brainwash our kids to become Socialists, put a label on our kids saying they are slow, learning disabled and then report the names to the Government to get more funding. My daughter in Kindergarten came home today with a note that she needs special help in Reading and Math.. I am supposed to fill out this application and take it back to the school.. If I don't sign for it, the school loses funding for that special ed teacher. And I guess I am a bad parent. The achievement test we took on her a few months ago had her at a 1.5 grade level.. what's going on??
I am VERY CLOSE to sending my child to private school.. It is going to be a hassle since it is 52 miles round trip everyday.. and no bus service.. It will probably be worth it. If that is the case, don't ask me to support the public school ever again in referendums or fund raisers. There are already enough pissed off families in the community that probably none of the referendums will pass anyway.


Well it looks like we are in agreement then. Cheers

[ScoutsHonor]

My guess is there are liability issues now for a teacher "correcting" a student..

In some ways I think a majority of the Public School Teachers are the lowest common denominator in life. They brainwash our kids to become Socialists, put a label on our kids saying they are slow, learning disabled and then report the names to the Government to get more funding. My daughter in Kindergarten came home today with a note that she needs special help in Reading and Math.. I am supposed to fill out this application and take it back to the school.. If I don't sign for it, the school loses funding for that special ed teacher. And I guess I am a bad parent. The achievement test we took on her a few months ago had her at a 1.5 grade level.. what's going on??
I am VERY CLOSE to sending my child to private school.. It is going to be a hassle since it is 52 miles round trip everyday.. and no bus service.. It will probably be worth it. If that is the case, don't ask me to support the public school ever again in referendums or fund raisers. There are already enough pissed off families in the community that probably none of the referendums will pass anyway.

My advice would be to RUN, RUN, RUN away from the public schools, as their purpose is to destroy your child's mind and confidence. As for the so-called "reading disability," it's the teacher who's got the disability because he/she is probably not teaching phonics. Then when the kids fail to learn, because only phonics works, they have the utter gall to blame the CHILD.

Incidentally, I ended by teaching my daughter to read at home; it took only about 3 weeks. That's because I actually wanted her to learn...

Best wishes.

[Pants]

I shouldn't sway too much out of topic.. but I can't resist sending a reply.. My daughter came home from school crying and didn't stop until 2 hours later because they had some sort of game where they had to count to 100 by 10's. She didn't win.. Destroying confidence I would agree..

Maybe I am over reacting.. Maybe the school found some sort of learning problem very early and they are trying to correct it.. I am also paranoid there might be some fraud involved.. They could be trying to show on paper they need a certain amount of LD teachers or students with Special needs to justify more Government funding.




My advice would be to RUN, RUN, RUN away from the public schools, as their purpose is to destroy your child's mind and confidence. As for the so-called "reading disability," it's the teacher who's got the disability because he/she is probably not teaching phonics. Then when the kids fail to learn, because only phonics works, they have the utter gall to blame the CHILD.

Incidentally, I ended by teaching my daughter to read at home; it took only about 3 weeks. That's because I actually wanted her to learn...

Best wishes.

[BlackTerrel]

My guess is there are liability issues now for a teacher "correcting" a student..

In some ways I think a majority of the Public School Teachers are the lowest common denominator in life. They brainwash our kids to become Socialists, put a label on our kids saying they are slow, learning disabled and then report the names to the Government to get more funding. My daughter in Kindergarten came home today with a note that she needs special help in Reading and Math.. I am supposed to fill out this application and take it back to the school.. If I don't sign for it, the school loses funding for that special ed teacher. And I guess I am a bad parent. The achievement test we took on her a few months ago had her at a 1.5 grade level.. what's going on??
I am VERY CLOSE to sending my child to private school.. It is going to be a hassle since it is 52 miles round trip everyday.. and no bus service.. It will probably be worth it. If that is the case, don't ask me to support the public school ever again in referendums or fund raisers. There are already enough pissed off families in the community that probably none of the referendums will pass anyway.

My personal advice - don't do it. Sounds like it is a hassle to drive. It probably costs considerable money and she won't necessarily be used to interacting with what the vast majority of people are like. I didn't learn shit in the classroom but I learned a lot from social interactions, playing sports etc... She'll be fine.


I shouldn't sway too much out of topic.. but I can't resist sending a reply.. My daughter came home from school crying and didn't stop until 2 hours later because they had some sort of game where they had to count to 100 by 10's. She didn't win.. Destroying confidence I would agree..

I kind of see that as a good thing. She played a game, she lost, she'll learn from it. That's life - we don't always win.

[coyote_sprit]

Actually it is Lance :D

http://i36.tinypic.com/2jb61d5.jpg

[jmdrake]

My personal advice - don't do it. Sounds like it is a hassle to drive. It probably costs considerable money and she won't necessarily be used to interacting with what the vast majority of people are like. I didn't learn shit in the classroom but I learned a lot from social interactions, playing sports etc... She'll be fine.



I kind of see that as a good thing. She played a game, she lost, she'll learn from it. That's life - we don't always win.

Child learning >>>>>> more important than "hassles of driving" or "considerable money"! That's the problem with our society. Government grows because we're willing to accept crap government services under the "illusion" that it's all "free".

[jmdrake]

I shouldn't sway too much out of topic.. but I can't resist sending a reply.. My daughter came home from school crying and didn't stop until 2 hours later because they had some sort of game where they had to count to 100 by 10's. She didn't win.. Destroying confidence I would agree..

Maybe I am over reacting.. Maybe the school found some sort of learning problem very early and they are trying to correct it.. I am also paranoid there might be some fraud involved.. They could be trying to show on paper they need a certain amount of LD teachers or students with Special needs to justify more Government funding.

My advice? Homeschool your child or send her to Montessori.

[MelissaWV]

I'm pretty sure juvenile records are sealed unless the juvenile is charged as an adult, as a sex offender or for a traffic violation. I agree with you that the parents should have been immediately called. One thing I told my kids after the "aspirin strip search" case is if any adult tries to tell them they have to take off their clothes they should tell the adult they have to call me. Really parental contact should be ingrained in the law.

The records would be sealed at 17. You apply to college and, one hopes, a job before then. :(

[jmdrake]

The records would be sealed at 17. You apply to college and, one hopes, a job before then. :(

I'm taking juvenile justice right now, and while the law varies from state to state I'm fairly certain that the records are sealed the whole time. Juveniles usually are not "convicted". They are "adjudged delinquent". (Again, exception for traffic violations, crime that put them in adult court and sex offenses.) The downside of this is that sometimes this works against the juvenile. For instance in the famous case In Re Gault he had been kept in juvenile detention for allegedly making an obscene phone call. I say allegedly because there was no "process" in that case. The woman who filed the claim against him wasn't even required to come in as a witness. That, of course, would not have happened in adult court. Also had he been tried as an adult in that state he only would have received 4 months max. The state argued that no real harm was done because of the nature of the juvenile justice system. (For example, his records were sealed). But the supreme court ruled against the state, holding that when detention is a possible punishment there must be some sort of process. It's still possible for a juvenile to be held longer than he would have had he been tried as an adult, but some states have taken steps to prevent that.

[idirtify]

Most schools have an officer or two present, so not sure how they are spending more. 3 people injured doesn't sound like a prank that should be laughed off.

Not sure you didn’t just make the point: where you have cops, you WILL have “crime”.

[Pants]

I probably will eventually home school..

We don't always win.. But from my experiences with Public school they were the worst time in my life.. Do you know how traumatizing it was for me to be the last kid picked in sports? Every single day getting poked fun of.. Every single day coming home beat up with black eyes? Do you know I almost committed suicide when I was 12? Do you know the people who caused me trouble ended up being in jail or prison FOR LIFE when the system could have made them better people? My learning process was disrupted.. 3 years of my life was wasted because I had to go back and relearn the skills that I never had the opportunity to get. Yes.. I am educated now with a fairly good job and rewarded with a good life.. but if it almost didn't happen. I almost never lived to see 13..

Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder about the Public School system.. I think I have a valid reason.. Call me overprotective but I will not under any circumstances allow my daughter to have to live like that.



My personal advice - don't do it. Sounds like it is a hassle to drive. It probably costs considerable money and she won't necessarily be used to interacting with what the vast majority of people are like. I didn't learn shit in the classroom but I learned a lot from social interactions, playing sports etc... She'll be fine.



I kind of see that as a good thing. She played a game, she lost, she'll learn from it. That's life - we don't always win.

[idirtify]

I'm sure misdemeanors have fines attached that will support any extra time required. We don't know how many times this has happened. And I don't know what kind of injuries, but they obviously thought it was bad enough to mention. I'm sure a carton of milk or plastic tray could injure someone if thrown at them. Sorry but I'm tired of way too many kids these days going to school to goof off and act up instead of learn.

Shame on you Revolutionisnow!

Why do you presume misdemeanors were committed? Only because arrests were made? Why do you presume that it was “bad enough”? Only because cops thought so? Where is your evidence? What is your basis for believing cops by default? AFAIK you have absolutely NO excuse for such presumption of guilt, and it’s OFFENSIVE to me who has been a victim of jurors who thought like you.

How’s this? I’m going to presume that YOU have committed a crime. But here’s the difference between you and me: I have hard/physical evidence of your crime. In print, you have blatantly presumed guilt before innocence and without hesitation have deprived accused people of due-process. Now will you reply by accusing me of accusing you of a thought-crime? Maybe so, but the point is to compare the seriousness of your actions with those of the school children; of whom you so readily believe the worst.

[idirtify]

I probably will eventually home school..

We don't always win.. But from my experiences with Public school they were the worst time in my life.. Do you know how traumatizing it was for me to be the last kid picked in sports? Every single day getting poked fun of.. Every single day coming home beat up with black eyes? Do you know I almost committed suicide when I was 12? Do you know the people who caused me trouble ended up being in jail or prison FOR LIFE when the system could have made them better people? My learning process was disrupted.. 3 years of my life was wasted because I had to go back and relearn the skills that I never had the opportunity to get. Yes.. I am educated now with a fairly good job and rewarded with a good life.. but if it almost didn't happen. I almost never lived to see 13..

Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder about the Public School system.. I think I have a valid reason.. Call me overprotective but I will not under any circumstances allow my daughter to have to live like that.

Pants,

So sorry to hear about your rough time. Glad you didn’t do it and are doing better. Kids can certainly be cruel, but the State fosters the abusive behavior. State schools are sanitariums of abuse, and it comes from the top-down. Kids only reflect what they subconsciously infer from their role models. You can not possibly have a functional family/system if the custodial leaders are corrupt to the core.

Get the State out of the schools and aggression will drop like a rock.

[MelissaWV]

I'm taking juvenile justice right now, and while the law varies from state to state I'm fairly certain that the records are sealed the whole time. Juveniles usually are not "convicted". They are "adjudged delinquent". (Again, exception for traffic violations, crime that put them in adult court and sex offenses.) The downside of this is that sometimes this works against the juvenile. For instance in the famous case In Re Gault he had been kept in juvenile detention for allegedly making an obscene phone call. I say allegedly because there was no "process" in that case. The woman who filed the claim against him wasn't even required to come in as a witness. That, of course, would not have happened in adult court. Also had he been tried as an adult in that state he only would have received 4 months max. The state argued that no real harm was done because of the nature of the juvenile justice system. (For example, his records were sealed). But the supreme court ruled against the state, holding that when detention is a possible punishment there must be some sort of process. It's still possible for a juvenile to be held longer than he would have had he been tried as an adult, but some states have taken steps to prevent that.

I am at work and don't have access to the article I was reading about this particular incident, but it seems that in that state it'll be with them until they're 17. If you do a search for relevant information (Chicago, food fight, arrest, etc.) you might stumble across the same info. I can only go off of what was reported, as I'm not an expert in Illinois law :)

[andrewh817]

And your solution is to throw them in jail? Kids do stupid shit - that's why they're kids.

When I was a kid we'd play basketball/football after school every day. At least once a week there would be a fight. The kids would get their aggression out and then we'd drink a Gatorade and forget about it. Nowadays every little thing they call the police. Don't dare do anything barely out of line or they'll toss you in jail.

Here's the thing: I'm not anti-police. Police play an important role in any society. Otherwise there's chaos. But how about they focus all their energy and resources on the bad guys? How about they pay attention to the murderers and rapists and pedophiles and the guys on Wall Street ripping us all off?

And how about they stop pulling me over for going 70 MPH on the freeway at 2 AM when there's no one there. And they don't arrest Cheech for selling a bong. And they don't arrest an 11 year old for getting in a food fight.

This is a small incident but this highlights exactly what is wrong with this country. Too much emphasis on bullshit and not enough emphasis on what really matters.

I'd really like an explanation why there is chaos with no police......one of those phrases that gets thrown around but doesn't really make sense. Also, what makes you think there's enough "real criminals" to keep these thousands of cops busy? Even if there were enough of these people, what's the government's solution? Lock them up on your dollar, keep them around some of the worst people in society for a few years, and then hope they can one day function normally.

And the way I look at it, the government is already serving its constituents. Why would the same government who got the companies the bailouts prosecute them now?? And even from a financial standpoint it's more profitable to give 10 tickets for petty crap than to prosecute one rapist.

[ScoutsHonor]

Pants,

So sorry to hear about your rough time. Glad you didn’t do it and are doing better. Kids can certainly be cruel, but the State fosters the abusive behavior. State schools are sanitariums of abuse, and it comes from the top-down. Kids only reflect what they subconsciously infer from their role models. You can not possibly have a functional family/system if the custodial leaders are corrupt to the core.

Get the State out of the schools and aggression will drop like a rock.

Very well said. Couldn't agree more.

[BlackTerrel]

Child learning >>>>>> more important than "hassles of driving" or "considerable money"! That's the problem with our society. Government grows because we're willing to accept crap government services under the "illusion" that it's all "free".

What do you think a kid needs to learn in grade school? You learn how to interact with others, some math, some reading - the rest is bullshit. My parents moved a ton (military) and I went to a bunch of different shitty high schools. I learned what I needed to, got into good colleges and learned what I needed to through life interactions, school and the internet.

The idea that kids learn so much more at a fancy private school is bull.

[BlackTerrel]

I'd really like an explanation why there is chaos with no police......one of those phrases that gets thrown around but doesn't really make sense. Also, what makes you think there's enough "real criminals" to keep these thousands of cops busy? Even if there were enough of these people, what's the government's solution? Lock them up on your dollar, keep them around some of the worst people in society for a few years, and then hope they can one day function normally.

I'm not sure what your argument is? You are saying no police at all? For anything?

Me personally, what I would do is rapists, murderers, and pedophiles are put to death. And I would do away with bullshit crimes like drug use and food fights.

[MelissaWV]

I'm not sure what your argument is? You are saying no police at all? For anything?

Me personally, what I would do is rapists, murderers, and pedophiles are put to death. And I would do away with bullshit crimes like drug use and food fights.

The trouble with the death penalty for crimes like rape (which is what pedophilia is, too, really) is that rape depends a great deal on the victim's version of events. It all hinges on the word "no" or "stop". It's not always really what happened. When that comes to light, usually many years later, it's a little late to send an "I'm sorry" if the alleged rapist is dead.

In murder, the dead person is still dead. In rape, the evidence can be used many times to point to consensual acts or non-consensual ones. It's really the tale that's told that sways things. I don't like the idea of putting people to death just on say-so.

Also, I notice that destruction of property isn't really a big deal in that society.

[jmdrake]

What do you think a kid needs to learn in grade school? You learn how to interact with others, some math, some reading - the rest is bullshit. My parents moved a ton (military) and I went to a bunch of different shitty high schools. I learned what I needed to, got into good colleges and learned what I needed to through life interactions, school and the internet.

The idea that kids learn so much more at a fancy private school is bull.

:rolleyes:

The test scores say different. Especially with respect to homeschoolers. And who says it has to be a "fancy private school"? Many private schools are very humble. There's also nothing more humble than a mother (or father) sitting around the kitchen table teaching a child at home. Homeschoolers not only do better on standardized tests but they are also less susceptible to peer pressure. That's a very important trait in today's society. And it's also possible to teach your child at home for free. If you don't want to spend the money and/or time to do better by your own child that's your business. But that doesn't make your advice right for everybody else. Besides, if we are going to role back the size of government we have to take a good look at all government services including public education.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[jmdrake]

I am at work and don't have access to the article I was reading about this particular incident, but it seems that in that state it'll be with them until they're 17. If you do a search for relevant information (Chicago, food fight, arrest, etc.) you might stumble across the same info. I can only go off of what was reported, as I'm not an expert in Illinois law :)

You may be right. The law does vary state to state. If that's what it is in Illinois then that sucks! I seem to recall the last college application I filled out (it's been a few years) only asked about felonies. I'll look up Illinois' law when I get a chance. (curious myself). However I wonder if what you read was saying that the records would be generally available to prospective colleges and employers until they turned 17 or if it said the records wouldn't be expunged until they turned 17? That's a small but important difference.

[MelissaWV]

You may be right. The law does vary state to state. If that's what it is in Illinois then that sucks! I seem to recall the last college application I filled out (it's been a few years) only asked about felonies. I'll look up Illinois' law when I get a chance. (curious myself). However I wonder if what you read was saying that the records would be generally available to prospective colleges and employers until they turned 17 or if it said the records wouldn't be expunged until they turned 17? That's a small but important difference.

Touche:


Even the innocent students will face lasting consequences. If the charges are dropped, juvenile records can't be expunged until the accused becomes 17. Parents are worried this could affect future jobs and college applications.

* * *

Also, those of you saying this is what you get at public school...


More than two dozen students were slapped with criminal charges in connection with a food fight in the cafeteria at a Chicago charter school.


Our Mission
All Perspectives Charter Schools will provide students with a rigorous and relevant education, based on "A Disciplined Life," that prepares them for life in a changing world and helps them further become intellectually reflective, caring and ethical people engaged in a meaningful life.

Perspectives Charter Schools is a growing network of tuition-free, high performing, public charter schools, based on the principles of A Disciplined Life. Chartered in 1997 as one of the first five charter schools in Chicago, Perspectives has earned its national reputation as a model of how a small school with innovative, effective education can transform urban schooling.

We currently serve nearly 1,800 students across five schools: Calumet Middle School, Calumet High School, Calumet High School of Technology, Perspectives/IIT Math & Science Academy and Rodney D. Joslin Campus.

So while this is a "public charter school," it would appear it is not your "typical" inner city school by a long shot.

[BlackTerrel]

The trouble with the death penalty for crimes like rape (which is what pedophilia is, too, really) is that rape depends a great deal on the victim's version of events. It all hinges on the word "no" or "stop". It's not always really what happened. When that comes to light, usually many years later, it's a little late to send an "I'm sorry" if the alleged rapist is dead.

In murder, the dead person is still dead. In rape, the evidence can be used many times to point to consensual acts or non-consensual ones. It's really the tale that's told that sways things. I don't like the idea of putting people to death just on say-so.

I agree. I think it is important that we get it right. But I am saying that in clear cut cases of rape/murder/etc. I would go with the death penalty and I wouldn't do this long drawn out process that costs the taxpayers $5 million either.


Also, I notice that destruction of property isn't really a big deal in that society.

I was just listing a few as an example. I agree destruction of property is a big deal.

[BlackTerrel]

The test scores say different. Especially with respect to homeschoolers. And who says it has to be a "fancy private school"? Many private schools are very humble. There's also nothing more humble than a mother (or father) sitting around the kitchen table teaching a child at home. Homeschoolers not only do better on standardized tests but they are also less susceptible to peer pressure.

And the flip side is that many of them are weird and unacclimated to society. Not all - but I'd say more than the average person who has gone to school with their peers.

I'd also say you can do both. Let them go to school and interact with kids and also teach them some at home.


That's a very important trait in today's society. And it's also possible to teach your child at home for free. If you don't want to spend the money and/or time to do better by your own child that's your business. But that doesn't make your advice right for everybody else. Besides, if we are going to role back the size of government we have to take a good look at all government services including public education.

I agree that it's not right for everybody. I gave my opinion.

Personally I gained a lot from going to about 8 different schools growing up. It was hard, I had to leave my friends every couple years, but adversity makes us grow. I learned how to make friends quickly and get along with all different kinds of people. Different strokes for different folks.

[jmdrake]

And the flip side is that many of them are weird and unacclimated to society. Not all - but I'd say more than the average person who has gone to school with their peers.


:rolleyes: Yeah. They know more about the constitution than they do about Britney Spears and Hannah Montana. They are able to start their own businesses while they're still in elementary school instead of begging their parents for money or trying to get a job at McDonald's. They don't know all of the latest suggestive dances or degrading rap songs. That makes them "weird". I'll take "weird" over what passes for "normal" any day of the week.



I'd also say you can do both. Let them go to school and interact with kids and also teach them some at home.


Or you can teach them at home and let them interact with other kids at church, in the boy scouts, on sports teams, at karate etc. I know a lot of home schoolers and they get their share of "kid interaction" and then some. But they are the leaders, not the followers.



I agree that it's not right for everybody. I gave my opinion.


I'm glad we agree on this at least. From the description the parent gave that started this sub discussion it didn't sound like it was right for her child.



Personally I gained a lot from going to about 8 different schools growing up. It was hard, I had to leave my friends every couple years, but adversity makes us grow. I learned how to make friends quickly and get along with all different kinds of people. Different strokes for different folks.

Yep.

[SimpleName]

I'm sure misdemeanors have fines attached that will support any extra time required. We don't know how many times this has happened. And I don't know what kind of injuries, but they obviously thought it was bad enough to mention. I'm sure a carton of milk or plastic tray could injure someone if thrown at them. Sorry but I'm tired of way too many kids these days going to school to goof off and act up instead of learn.

It'd be great if they actually did learn something. When nothing seems to have any application to your life, goofing off will be a child's reaction. At least that's how I always felt. I rarely "goofed" off, but every laugh made me feel a little less angry about my servitude to the state.

[andrewh817]

I'm not sure what your argument is? You are saying no police at all? For anything?

Me personally, what I would do is rapists, murderers, and pedophiles are put to death. And I would do away with bullshit crimes like drug use and food fights.

It was more of a question to the OP ....... and I'm sorry to nit-pick here but when you say what YOU would do you mean you personally? Or do you mean what you would have a gang of thugs do for you if you had that power?

[andrewh817]

Pants,

Kids can certainly be cruel, but the State fosters the abusive behavior. State schools are sanitariums of abuse, and it comes from the top-down. Kids only reflect what they subconsciously infer from their role models. You can not possibly have a functional family/system if the custodial leaders are corrupt to the core.

Get the State out of the schools and aggression will drop like a rock.

Which is why it's not surprising that the government/civilian relationship is identical to the average parent/child relationship. You have all these people telling you what to do not for any reason, but because they said so. And if you disobey the consequences your authorities will inflict physical pain or mental humiliation.

A child's brain picks this so-called problem-solving technique from a very young age. "If others do not do what I want then I can (or should) force them to comply to my wishes. The more the child sees this "technique," the more it reinforces the idea that blind obedience is a virtue.

And there are people out there wondering how the Nazi Party was able to operate without much resistance? IT'S THE RAISING OF CHILDREN. The same exact phenomenon can be observed in modern day America with all the aggression in the Middle East.

[BlackTerrel]

It was more of a question to the OP ....... and I'm sorry to nit-pick here but when you say what YOU would do you mean you personally? Or do you mean what you would have a gang of thugs do for you if you had that power?

I don't mean me personally. I mean if I had my druthers then rapists, murderers, and pedophiles would be put to death.