New argument against, "They are just here to work."

[Carson]

New argument for the statement, “Illegal aliens are just here to work and should be allowed to stay.”

Can’t it also be said that, counterfeiters work hard and should be allowed to spend their money.


If you take a look at this Consumer Price Index chart it appears that every real silver dollar we exchanged in the sixties has been counterfeited at least ten times since then.

Counterfeiting is the only way I can think of to recreate the devaluation of our currency the way the purchasing power has been falling.

http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/newbegining/2508h-inflationgraph.jpg
(click for picture source) (http://oregonstate.edu/cla/polisci/faculty/sahr-robert)


Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.

Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world’s wealth. Each one of us has one Zero Dollar in front of him.

http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/newbegining/worthless_colorbrianRomero.jpg
(click for picture source) (http://brian-romero.blogspot.com/2008/06/zero-dollar-bill.html)

You own half of everything and so do I.

I’m the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.

You’re not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more Zero Dollars to manipulate you with.


All of a sudden your Zero Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!


That isn’t the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because you’ve been stiffed with the bill for the money I printed up to get you to do what I wanted.


That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can’t keep up with the money presses.


They have been beating us with our own stick!!!!1

[Paulfan05]

My head hurts

[Carson]

My head hurts


Sorry. I was trying to be gentle.

[pacelli]

"They are just here to work."

"So am I."

[TastyWheat]

So they're "fake" laborers and have no intrinsic value?

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[Carson]

So they're "fake" laborers and have no intrinsic value?


They are not fake workers so much as they are illegal workers.

If people are going to illegally open the borders for them doesn't the act imply the opening of a lot of other borders?

Are you just opening the nations of the worlds borders for the illegal aliens of the world to help the criminals in business and the criminals in the government that have been profiting by the conspiracy?

There are other borders falling as a result of these actions. We now call police and other government officials things like police and other government titles when in fact they have not upheld their oaths of office. Those borders have fallen.

Are you going to allow anyone to print up money because they have worked just as hard to print their paper as the original counterfeiters have?

Are there any borders to the open borders crowds lawlessness?

[TastyWheat]

They are not fake workers so much as they are illegal workers.
Marijuana is illegal too. Where's your thread about stopping the drug trade?


Are you just opening the nations of the worlds borders for the illegal aliens of the world to help the criminals in business and the criminals in the government that have been profiting by the conspiracy?
If you are referring to illegal aliens voting then that's a different subject than them "just looking for work".


There are other borders falling as a result of these actions. We now call police and other government officials things like police and other government titles when in fact they have not upheld their oaths of office. Those borders have fallen.
I realize the purpose of borders is to create a division, but are all borders necessary? Isn't the fact that all those inside our borders enjoy our protection a good enough division?

If we accept the idea of free trade, that governments should not limit the free influx and efflux of capital, that this policy creates the best benefit for the most people, then why should we take an exception to human capital? Obviously nobody wants to move to China just to get a job, but nobody wants to learn new skills either when their skill set goes out of demand.

[Dieseler]

They are here to take your place.
This is an invasion.

[Carson]

Snip...

If you are referring to illegal aliens voting then that's a different subject than them "just looking for work".


More snipage...

I'm mostly cheesed with the criminal activity of our government officials. They should be arrested and charged for the lawlessness they have brought to our once great nation.

Still the illegal invaders should not be here.

In the sixties the government came into the schools and told use the children we would be having were unwanted because we were running out of things like water and room on the roads. They pretty much annihilated my generation with their stories about the need to control the population.

At the same time they were illegally opening up the borders to allow hoards of illegal aliens in.

All of the children that were slaughtered were for not.



Snip...


If we accept the idea of free trade, that governments should not limit the free influx and efflux of capital, that this policy creates the best benefit for the most people, then why should we take an exception to human capital? Obviously nobody wants to move to China just to get a job, but nobody wants to learn new skills either when their skill set goes out of demand.

The developing world has always had a certain amount of free trade. The difference being it really was free trade and didn't need a label to fake people out into thinking it was free trade.

Fixing health care?

Global warning?

Caution people! What are the odds they would start telling the truth now?

[Carson]

Snip...

I realize the purpose of borders is to create a division, but are all borders necessary? Isn't the fact that all those inside our borders enjoy our protection a good enough division?

Snip...


Those inside our borders are not enjoying the protection lawfully due them.

Many inside our borders live outside of the law. Many of those living outside of the law are illegal aliens.

The criminals in the government and business have not been living inside of the law and it places an unjust burden on those that do.

We pay many of their medical and social services for the outlaws for one thing.

Many are also the victims of identity theft, automobile accidents, tax cheating, and other crimes.

Many in the government are squarely behind it, though they sing a different tune at times. Talk out of the side of their mouth so to speak.

I grew up when the police were honest and enforced the immigration laws. If the border patrol didn't get them, the police inland upheld their oath of office and did their best.

You may have not witnessed the downfall of this once great nation. Others have watched it first hand.

We have no one to blame but ourselves for not doing what is needed I suppose.

[TastyWheat]

Unless someone has another reason why illegal immigration is illegal, it's nothing but a protectionist scheme for American jobs, and if we support job protectionism why not support trade protectionism?

[__27__]

Unless someone has another reason why illegal immigration is illegal, it's nothing but a protectionist scheme for American jobs, and if we support job protectionism why not support trade protectionism?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b264/Ka-zu-ya/tookourjobs.jpg

[constituent]

Sorry, does not compute.

If you support restoring/restraining government to its limited, constitutional roles, you have to support the states' rights to regulate the immigration of individuals (foreign nationals more specifically) to, from, within their territory.

The federal government usurping this fundamental right of the states, as you suggest they should do, is an excellent example of perpetuating the very problem that you claim to fight.

[__27__]

Sorry, does not compute. If you support restoring/restraining government to its limited, constitutional roles, you have to support the states' rights to regulate the immigration of individuals (foreign nationals more specifically) to, from, within their territory.

Sorry, does not compute. If you believe in individual freedom, you believe in individual freedom. Not individual freedom 'only for those people the stork happened to drop within the boundaries of a political map, to all the other lessers in the world, you get nothing and you deserve nothing'. If you believe in free markets, you believe in the right of ANYONE to enter their labor into the marketplace in exchange for some form of compensation, not just those people you pick and choose as 'worthy'.

Freedom is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to everyone else.

[constituent]

Sorry, does not compute. If you believe in individual freedom, you believe in individual freedom. Not individual freedom 'only for those people the stork happened to drop within the boundaries of a political map, to all the other lessers in the world, you get nothing and you deserve nothing'. If you believe in free markets, you believe in the right of ANYONE to enter their labor into the marketplace in exchange for some form of compensation, not just those people you pick and choose as 'worthy'.

Freedom is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to everyone else.

Actually, I agree with you. I'm arguing from the constitutionalist's perspective atm though.

Good effort, but -5 style points.

[__27__]

Actually, I agree with you. I'm arguing from the constitutionalist's perspective atm though.

Good effort, but -5 style points.

I don't recognize any coercive government's right to tell an INDIVIDUAL where he can/cannot go, or what he can/cannot do with his body (enter it's labor to market), period.

Whether FedGov or the state of Arizona do it is irrelevant, it's antithetical to individual liberty.

Good effort, but -eleventy billion style points. (why anyone on a board about individualism and self governing would care what another person thinks of their words is beyond me)

[Andrew-Austin]

Counterfeiting is fraud.

Moving to a country and getting a job is not fraud.

[Carson]

Counterfeiting is fraud.

Moving to a country and getting a job is not fraud.


Invading a country illegally and passing yourself off as someone who belongs is a fraudulent act.

[paulpwns]

Invading a country illegally and passing yourself off as someone who belongs is a fraudulent act.

He's got a point?

[Dieseler]

Sorry, does not compute. If you believe in individual freedom, you believe in individual freedom. Not individual freedom 'only for those people the stork happened to drop within the boundaries of a political map, to all the other lessers in the world, you get nothing and you deserve nothing'. If you believe in free markets, you believe in the right of ANYONE to enter their labor into the marketplace in exchange for some form of compensation, not just those people you pick and choose as 'worthy'.

Freedom is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to everyone else.

Next thing you know they will have the freedom to enter your house and take it as well right?.
Why not.
Throw in your daughters while you're at it.
Free is free.