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View Full Version : Have you ever met or known one person to die




Dieseler
11-07-2009, 03:19 PM
In the U.S.A. because they did not have health insurance?

I have personally never met a one.

kahless
11-07-2009, 03:27 PM
No. In fact I have elderly people in my family living into their 80s because of various heart and vascular operations they had in their early 70s and late 60s. Operations they would not have received in a timely manner in a Socialist country. Operations they would not be approved for under the proposed government run health care due to their age.

Those that support this health plan are making the same life and death decisions that officials made in Nazi Germany.

JamesButabi
11-07-2009, 03:29 PM
Not one personally. Im sure theres plenty of situations out there. No need for force.

Oyate
11-07-2009, 03:30 PM
Medical science generally attributes death to disease or injury. Lack of insurance is neither.

(edited to extend thought)

I have met people who's life could have been extended or improved with proper medical attention. Actually, I am one of them.

JamesButabi
11-07-2009, 03:36 PM
wrong thread woops

TER
11-07-2009, 03:36 PM
People die everyday because they do not have the financial means or health insurance coverage to pay for expensive treatments that would prolong their lives, most notably with regards to specialized surgical procedures and cancer treatments.

Dr.3D
11-07-2009, 03:43 PM
People die everyday because they do not have the financial means or health insurance coverage to pay for expensive treatments that would prolong their lives, most notably with regards to specialized surgical procedures and cancer treatments.
So should the government provide the charity at the cost of those who are paying taxes? Myself, I would prefer to see charity take care of those in need of help, not the government.

I detest government mandated charity.

Expatriate
11-07-2009, 03:46 PM
No, but here in Canada (socialist health care system) a friend's father died 2 days after he had a heart attack, and had still not received proper care at that point. The family was angry as hell, and they were preparing to drive him to the States so he could get medical attention when he died.

Almost everyone I know in Canada that has had serious health problems has had to travel to the US to get proper care (and pay big bucks). That's on top of paying massive amounts of taxes to keep the inefficient health care system running. Where will they go if the US system becomes socialized, I wonder.

The only people who like the Canadian system are the ones who don't use the emergency room, but like to go to the doctor for "free", talk for an hour and get another prescription every time they feel unappreciated, bored or depressed.

TER
11-07-2009, 04:09 PM
So should the government provide the charity at the cost of those who are paying taxes? Myself, I would prefer to see charity take care of those in need of help, not the government.

I detest government mandated charity.

You are jumping to conclusions! Just because I said that people are dying due to lack of financial means or health insurance does not mean I advocate forced mandates by a federal government.

bunklocoempire
11-07-2009, 04:27 PM
I've known three who rejected employer discounted insurance so they could pocket more money from their checks.

These same three folks spent weeks to months in hospitals for drinking/drug related behavior.

Never paid off their huge bills.

These three are dead. 35 to 50 years of age.

Ah, life in the resturant/bar biz.......

Bunkloco

Dr.3D
11-07-2009, 04:32 PM
You are jumping to conclusions! Just because I said that people are dying due to lack of financial means or health insurance does not mean I advocate forced mandates by a federal government.
Nor did I say you advocated forced mandates by the federal government. I only asked a question of you and it seems to mistook that question as saying you approved of government mandated charity.

TER
11-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Nor did I say you advocated forced mandates by the federal government. I only asked a question of you and it seems to mistook that question as saying you approved of government mandated charity.


Forgive me if I misunderstood your post. It seemed odd to me that you would question me about government charity being that I am an ardent Ron Paul supporter and struggler with you in the liberty movement. I simply made an observation about the fact that people do suffer and die because of lack of health care. I have worked as an emergency room doctor for years now, long enough to know the tragedies people face because of poverty. We should be against mandated federal 'charity', which is not charity at all. But at the same time, we should not be so naive as to think that real people are not suffering because of the health care system we have.

Natalie
11-07-2009, 05:04 PM
They say that the number of Uninsured Americans is 47 million, but I don't think that number is right. Many just choose to not buy health insurance. My uncle makes $100,000 a year, and he doesn't buy health insurance for his family (Idk why). Some people are eligible for Medicaid but never applied. So the number of people who are ineligible for medicaid and truly can't afford health insurance but want it is probably much lower than 47 million, imo.

Dr.3D
11-07-2009, 05:11 PM
Forgive me if I misunderstood your post. It seemed odd to me that you would question me about government charity being that I am an ardent Ron Paul supporter and struggler with you in the liberty movement. I simply made an observation about the fact that people do suffer and die because of lack of health care. I have worked as an emergency room doctor for years now, long enough to know the tragedies people face because of poverty. We should we be against mandated federal 'charity', which is not charity at all. But at the same time, we should not be so naive as to think that real people are not suffering because of the health care system we have.

Even those among us who have health insurance are seldom able to have the very best health care. There are many techniques that are not affordable to even those who make more than the middle class makes.

The idea of people being able to have million dollar medical services performed on them even if aided by the government is silly. There will never be a way for everyone to have the very best and most expensive procedures performed on them.

I can liken it to my dogs. When one of them is 10 years old and expected to live a normal life of 12 years, it would not be expedient for me after finding him to have cancer, to spend thousands of dollars on chemo therapy to prolong his life.

The same holds true for people. Even if I had cancer and could realistically add a couple of years to my life by spending my life savings for medical aid, I would not do so and would rather have what money I have go to my children.

No one is ever turned away from an emergency room. They may not be able to get the most expensive medical care, but what they do get is what they would need to keep from immediate death.

pcosmar
11-07-2009, 05:16 PM
One body shop I worked in, the owner told me on the first day that he didn't carry Insurance (NO workman's comp) "so don't hurt yourself".
However any work related accidents were paid for out of pocket. He even hauled me to a dentist for a toothache. He needed me on the job. I worked for him for 7 years and helped him shut down the business after hurricane Georges.

TER
11-07-2009, 05:21 PM
Even those among us who have health insurance are seldom able to have the very best health care. There are many techniques that are not affordable to even those who make more than the middle class makes.

The idea of people being able to have million dollar medical services performed on them even if aided by the government is silly. There will never be a way for everyone to have the very best and most expensive procedures performed on them.

I can liken it to my dogs. When one of them is 10 years old and expected to live a normal life of 12 years, it would not be expedient for me after finding him to have cancer, to spend thousands of dollars on chemo therapy to prolong his life.

The same holds true for people. Even if I had cancer and could realistically add a couple of years to my life by spending my life savings for medical aid, I would not do so and would rather have what money I have go to my children.

No one is ever turned away from an emergency room. They may not be able to get the most expensive medical care, but what they do get is what they would need to keep from immediate death.

I agree to all you said.

TER
11-07-2009, 05:26 PM
What should we do as individuals to help those who are in financial distress and economic hardships and have mounting health care costs? We know that it should not be the federal governments role, but something accomplished more locally, at the state and the county level. Maybe we should share some stories about how we as individuals can assist those in need. What charities do we in the liberty movement contribute to? (perhaps this should be its own thread as it is straying from the opening post)

TER
11-07-2009, 05:32 PM
i should add, that i do not mean for this to be an occassion for us to boast, but rather to educate others in this movement about what methods and actions we freedom fighters can pursue in helping the indigent among us.

Oyate
11-07-2009, 06:11 PM
I'm old fashioned in this regard. People in my neighborhood share food, money, car rides, we'll perform such medical attention as we can as far as suturing and splinting. What we can't handle ourselves, sometimes there is "charity" to help but generally we help each other and make do with what we can. Because it's a poor neighbourhood, everybody is in the same boat so you find us very willing to help where we can---mindful of the fact that we'll need help back some time.

Some of my friends say I could get disability, food stamps and government health care quite easily. Given my condition, I could just pick up my feet and ride. I'll fight to maintain my independence as long as I can.

slothman
11-07-2009, 06:39 PM
Almost everyone I know in Canada that has had serious health problems has had to travel to the US to get proper care (and pay big bucks).
That's on top of paying massive amounts of taxes to keep the inefficient health care system running.
Where will they go if the US system becomes socialized, I wonder.


The problem with America's health care system is that you do need to pay big bucks to get health care.
Poor people are better off in Canada and waiting a few weeks for help rather than not getting any here at all.

TER
11-07-2009, 06:45 PM
I'm old fashioned in this regard. People in my neighborhood share food, money, car rides, we'll perform such medical attention as we can as far as suturing and splinting. What we can't handle ourselves, sometimes there is "charity" to help but generally we help each other and make do with what we can. Because it's a poor neighbourhood, everybody is in the same boat so you find us very willing to help where we can---mindful of the fact that we'll need help back some time.

Thanks for sharing this! This is what I envision when I hear the word 'community'.


Some of my friends say I could get disability, food stamps and government health care quite easily. Given my condition, I could just pick up my feet and ride. I'll fight to maintain my independence as long as I can.

God bless you!

Ninja Homer
11-07-2009, 07:16 PM
I've never heard of anybody dieing from lack of medical insurance, but I have heard of people dieing as a result of doctor screw-ups, wrong diagnoses, side effects of prescription drugs, and neglect in government run health care facilities. I'd bet a lot of money that modern health care practices kills more people than lack of health coverage.