JXL78
11-06-2009, 02:50 AM
Instead of bumping the older thread I wanted more eyes on this again...just shocked...
refering to this older thread btw... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=217806
I used a lot of your responses from the first thread...what he's replying to here...
first comes from a guy in Canada who loves his health care...
here, when ever i say 'fuck' in this thread, just imagine john malkovich in burn after reading:
YouTube - Burn After Reading - John Malkovich (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7CR8WkUi-4)
now.
once again, with respect sir you're making totally ridiculous distortions here about socialism. what you're describing in some sort of extreme Stalinist communism. you're saying totally ridiculous things.
you missed the point. England has many solutions for the problems that you're suggesting without being an fantasy "socialist utopia". you speak as if i live in some sort of dream world when i talk about socialism, but this shit is ubiquitous. Canada, the UK, and France are not the type of socialist countries that you're describing. we are happy, free people who enjoy a very high standard of living. We can do what we want and start businesses. I'm a fucking business owner for god's sake. I value personal development and I'm not stopping for shit. This fantasy you have where you can't be 'free' in countries like Canada and the UK because some sort of oppressive government force is keeping you down is total fucking bullshit. it doesn't exist in the countries that the US would do well to role model.replying to something I said The simple fact is. People have a right to keep the fruits of their own labor.Once again he is from Canada.
YouTube - George Carlin - Rights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F1Lq1uFcAE)
two things:
1. "the right"? really? is this part of nature? we created that shit.. AND -- on what moral basis did we create that "right"? they are, of course, suggestive of a certain level of moral development, and quite frankly we can probably do better. honestly, the bill of rights? I'm not fucking impressed. that's right. we can do much better.
2. I completely think people should have the right to profit from their work and grow and become more wealthy. do you fucking hear what I'm saying?? once again, i'm not a communist. I am a proponent of certain socialist programs, most of which are already proven and workingI say...where does it stop? Do you think money grows on trees?
no... i think it stops when motherfuckers like you and I who have brains make goddamn decisions about what is reasonable and what isn't.. that's why this shit needs to come from a higher moral center-- one that isn't black and white and retarded. let me sound conservative here. I'm more than happy to pay higher taxes to provide reasonable health care for everyone. I am NOT in favor, however, of financially supporting some poor lazy motherfucking BUM who isn't interested in working.. fuck him, he can die with a dick in his mouth (haha). I WILL however pay taxes for his therapy and education.. but we already do that in Canada, and once again, my living standard is awesome. there are a lot of socialist programs that work great and we've got a budget for. we draw the line somewhere we choose consciously, because we're not fucking retarded.I used what someone here said...then he says...
your questions..
Well, i don't need to answer the first one, because like i said, all of the social programs that i'm really supportive of have already been implemented in other countries and work very well. this aint new ground. you peeps in the US pay tax just like us here in Canada, we just spend it on more socialist programs. there's BARELY a difference as it is for god's sake! what about your roads, for fuck sakes? and your firemen? anyway. when you dont pay your tax in the US, there are lots of processes for dealing with that, and I see no reason that they need to change. if anything, they can become a lot more tactful, probably. once again, the only reason you asked me that question is because you think i'm a fucking communist. I'm not. Do I look like robin hood to you? no, i dont. fuck him. he's an ugly stupid fucking asshole.I say...there is no love at the point of a gun...
excuse me, but holding your loved ones up to a higher moral ideal is HUGELY about love. "No jimmy, I'm not going to let you keep that shit you stole from mrs. jenkins, because doing things solely for your own benefit isn't moral" or "no jimmy, it isn't okay to hire sweat shop workers just because it's cheep and legal" I dont give a shit if jimmy doesn't understand, and he just wants to keep what he "earned"
to the person who's only vantage point is himself, and who sees the world as a dogpile, then he should grow, even if it's painful in the short term. that IS love -- but it's fatherly love.I use what someone here said...
"Why would any self-professed free thinker submit himself to the whims of a body collective?"
the reply...
because anyone who can call himself enlightened (that's right fuckers, I'm going to claim that) understands how the individual is integrated into the collective without losing his individuality. without losing his individuality -- that's the whole holy-fuck important point here. if i don't have freedom to expand myself on an INDIVIDUAL basis, then you don't even HAVE a collective - you've got a bunch of oppressed fuckers in a tyrannical state. any collective that's worth a shit is made out of happy healthy prosperous individuals, working together.
individuals, working together -- you know, like a fuckin orgy.
these ideals of mine have nothing to do with sacrifice. I link to Stossel health care videos...
one more thing-- I'll watch those videos for you, just cuz you asked.
but seriously. starting with "animals in canada get far better care than human beings"
what kind of a fucking thing to say on tv is that? that's so intellectually BANKRUPT that it sends up massive red flags. it's straight up emotional communication and CERTAINLY has no factual or intellectual basis. I mean it almost belongs in Idiocracy. they might as well say "people in FAGnada all have to suck doctor dick to get healthcare"
YouTube - idiocracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acUix6Mz7kY&feature=player_embedded)
Now more from someone new who chimed in, being a little more serious this time...
With that said, you have to look at each issue with out caring whose side you would end up on. For health care you have to ask yourself what are the upsides and downsides to each position, and why we even have health care providers in the first place.
The reason we have health care providers is because people wanted a safety blanket in case something bad happened so they wouldn't be bankrupted by the medical bills. The only other option was to put away money into a savings account, a "rainy day fund" in case something happened. The thing is people in a capitalist society suck at saving money because they are supposed to be using that money. Because of this need insurance company's popped up to fill the need. They were able to make lots of money off the money they were given because they only had to pay out to a select few and were able to keep whatever wasn't used.
The argument for a government based health care system;
A government based health care system gets money from every tax payer creating a HUGE reserve of money. The larger the reserve the less likely you are to have the money run out when people start needing it. The reserve can also make interest helping pay back some of the debt we have. It would also serve as the low bar for other health care providers, because why would you get more coverage unless your getting more rewards. If something isn't covered by the gov plan then free market would anyways be there to pick up the slack. With the Gov plan the free market cant pull some of the shit it can now. They would have to cover things not covered by the gov plan and couldn't drop you for preexisting conditions.
So what do you think are the good things of keeping things the way they are now?Should I give up? lol I want to hear more of what people think here...I thought it was pretty funny. One of the funnier liberals I've come across actually...
refering to this older thread btw... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=217806
I used a lot of your responses from the first thread...what he's replying to here...
first comes from a guy in Canada who loves his health care...
here, when ever i say 'fuck' in this thread, just imagine john malkovich in burn after reading:
YouTube - Burn After Reading - John Malkovich (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7CR8WkUi-4)
now.
once again, with respect sir you're making totally ridiculous distortions here about socialism. what you're describing in some sort of extreme Stalinist communism. you're saying totally ridiculous things.
you missed the point. England has many solutions for the problems that you're suggesting without being an fantasy "socialist utopia". you speak as if i live in some sort of dream world when i talk about socialism, but this shit is ubiquitous. Canada, the UK, and France are not the type of socialist countries that you're describing. we are happy, free people who enjoy a very high standard of living. We can do what we want and start businesses. I'm a fucking business owner for god's sake. I value personal development and I'm not stopping for shit. This fantasy you have where you can't be 'free' in countries like Canada and the UK because some sort of oppressive government force is keeping you down is total fucking bullshit. it doesn't exist in the countries that the US would do well to role model.replying to something I said The simple fact is. People have a right to keep the fruits of their own labor.Once again he is from Canada.
YouTube - George Carlin - Rights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F1Lq1uFcAE)
two things:
1. "the right"? really? is this part of nature? we created that shit.. AND -- on what moral basis did we create that "right"? they are, of course, suggestive of a certain level of moral development, and quite frankly we can probably do better. honestly, the bill of rights? I'm not fucking impressed. that's right. we can do much better.
2. I completely think people should have the right to profit from their work and grow and become more wealthy. do you fucking hear what I'm saying?? once again, i'm not a communist. I am a proponent of certain socialist programs, most of which are already proven and workingI say...where does it stop? Do you think money grows on trees?
no... i think it stops when motherfuckers like you and I who have brains make goddamn decisions about what is reasonable and what isn't.. that's why this shit needs to come from a higher moral center-- one that isn't black and white and retarded. let me sound conservative here. I'm more than happy to pay higher taxes to provide reasonable health care for everyone. I am NOT in favor, however, of financially supporting some poor lazy motherfucking BUM who isn't interested in working.. fuck him, he can die with a dick in his mouth (haha). I WILL however pay taxes for his therapy and education.. but we already do that in Canada, and once again, my living standard is awesome. there are a lot of socialist programs that work great and we've got a budget for. we draw the line somewhere we choose consciously, because we're not fucking retarded.I used what someone here said...then he says...
your questions..
Well, i don't need to answer the first one, because like i said, all of the social programs that i'm really supportive of have already been implemented in other countries and work very well. this aint new ground. you peeps in the US pay tax just like us here in Canada, we just spend it on more socialist programs. there's BARELY a difference as it is for god's sake! what about your roads, for fuck sakes? and your firemen? anyway. when you dont pay your tax in the US, there are lots of processes for dealing with that, and I see no reason that they need to change. if anything, they can become a lot more tactful, probably. once again, the only reason you asked me that question is because you think i'm a fucking communist. I'm not. Do I look like robin hood to you? no, i dont. fuck him. he's an ugly stupid fucking asshole.I say...there is no love at the point of a gun...
excuse me, but holding your loved ones up to a higher moral ideal is HUGELY about love. "No jimmy, I'm not going to let you keep that shit you stole from mrs. jenkins, because doing things solely for your own benefit isn't moral" or "no jimmy, it isn't okay to hire sweat shop workers just because it's cheep and legal" I dont give a shit if jimmy doesn't understand, and he just wants to keep what he "earned"
to the person who's only vantage point is himself, and who sees the world as a dogpile, then he should grow, even if it's painful in the short term. that IS love -- but it's fatherly love.I use what someone here said...
"Why would any self-professed free thinker submit himself to the whims of a body collective?"
the reply...
because anyone who can call himself enlightened (that's right fuckers, I'm going to claim that) understands how the individual is integrated into the collective without losing his individuality. without losing his individuality -- that's the whole holy-fuck important point here. if i don't have freedom to expand myself on an INDIVIDUAL basis, then you don't even HAVE a collective - you've got a bunch of oppressed fuckers in a tyrannical state. any collective that's worth a shit is made out of happy healthy prosperous individuals, working together.
individuals, working together -- you know, like a fuckin orgy.
these ideals of mine have nothing to do with sacrifice. I link to Stossel health care videos...
one more thing-- I'll watch those videos for you, just cuz you asked.
but seriously. starting with "animals in canada get far better care than human beings"
what kind of a fucking thing to say on tv is that? that's so intellectually BANKRUPT that it sends up massive red flags. it's straight up emotional communication and CERTAINLY has no factual or intellectual basis. I mean it almost belongs in Idiocracy. they might as well say "people in FAGnada all have to suck doctor dick to get healthcare"
YouTube - idiocracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acUix6Mz7kY&feature=player_embedded)
Now more from someone new who chimed in, being a little more serious this time...
With that said, you have to look at each issue with out caring whose side you would end up on. For health care you have to ask yourself what are the upsides and downsides to each position, and why we even have health care providers in the first place.
The reason we have health care providers is because people wanted a safety blanket in case something bad happened so they wouldn't be bankrupted by the medical bills. The only other option was to put away money into a savings account, a "rainy day fund" in case something happened. The thing is people in a capitalist society suck at saving money because they are supposed to be using that money. Because of this need insurance company's popped up to fill the need. They were able to make lots of money off the money they were given because they only had to pay out to a select few and were able to keep whatever wasn't used.
The argument for a government based health care system;
A government based health care system gets money from every tax payer creating a HUGE reserve of money. The larger the reserve the less likely you are to have the money run out when people start needing it. The reserve can also make interest helping pay back some of the debt we have. It would also serve as the low bar for other health care providers, because why would you get more coverage unless your getting more rewards. If something isn't covered by the gov plan then free market would anyways be there to pick up the slack. With the Gov plan the free market cant pull some of the shit it can now. They would have to cover things not covered by the gov plan and couldn't drop you for preexisting conditions.
So what do you think are the good things of keeping things the way they are now?Should I give up? lol I want to hear more of what people think here...I thought it was pretty funny. One of the funnier liberals I've come across actually...