How can you shoot 43 soldiers with a handgun?

[sofia]

These werent helpless elementary school kids he was popping with his HANDGUN.

He shot FORTY THREE SOLDIERS.....

Something is fishy here. Maybe they needed to bury today's historic rally in the Capitol Building?

it sounds too weird....all the initial reports said THREE shooters ...now its one dude with hanguns.

[ghengis86]

eh, 15 rounds per mag, two reloads (assuming one handgun); tightly grouped confined targets. I don't think that's the fishy part. It's the 3 shooters, 1 shooters, 2 shooters, 1 shooter...dead, now alive...it's the changing stories that's fishy.

[pcosmar]

It haz an odor. :(

[sofia]

eh, 15 rounds per mag, two reloads (assuming one handgun); tightly grouped confined targets. I don't think that's the fishy part. It's the 3 shooters, 1 shooters, 2 shooters, 1 shooter...dead, now alive...it's the changing stories that's fishy.

wouldnt someone pop him before he could get so many rounds off?...This was a military base..

soldiers are trained to fight....with hands as well as with guns.....not herd themselves like sheep as they get slaughtered.

[ClayTrainor]

I'm not sure what it is, but something definitely stinks with this whole situation...

[DirtMcGirt]

no one carries except mp's and other security... its their home...

[pcosmar]

One MP that was shot (exchanging fire) was a contractor. (mercenary)
At least as one story goes.

[virgil47]

wouldnt someone pop him before he could get so many rounds off?...This was a military base..

You incorrectly assume that everyone on a military base is walking around with a loaded firearm. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most military in areas of conflict are not allowed to load their weapons unless they are under fire. In the U.S. the soldiers do not even have access to ammunition without going through channels. The only people on Ft. Hood that had firearms and ammo were the police officers. I believe it was a female civilian police officer that first wounded the perpatrator and was wounded in the process.

[ghengis86]

wouldnt someone pop him before he could get so many rounds off?...This was a military base..
soldiers are trained to fight....with hands as well as with guns.....not herd themselves like sheep as they get slaughtered.

yes, which means only MP's have firearms. all firearms are locked away until needed. even then, they can be issued, but ammunition is also withheld until needed i.e. firing range. personal firearms are locked away as well. it's not just a bunch of jar heads with loaded m-16's and m249's running around playing grab ass....

[Dionysus]

eh, 15 rounds per mag, two reloads (assuming one handgun); tightly grouped confined targets. I don't think that's the fishy part. It's the 3 shooters, 1 shooters, 2 shooters, 1 shooter...dead, now alive...it's the changing stories that's fishy.

Overloading with confusion and disinfo now makes it easier later if things need to be tweaked for security or PR or saving face reasons.

[tangent4ronpaul]

wouldnt someone pop him before he could get so many rounds off?...This was a military base..

soldiers are trained to fight....with hands as well as with guns.....not herd themselves like sheep as they get slaughtered.

Most of the shooting apparently took place in a medical clinic waiting room. Draw your own conclusions about the physical condition of most of the victims.

-t

[virgil47]

One MP that was shot (exchanging fire) was a contractor. (mercenary)
At least as one story goes.

Are not all police officers contractors (mercenaries)?

[pcosmar]

You incorrectly assume that everyone on a military base is walking around with a loaded firearm. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most military in areas of conflict are not allowed to load their weapons unless they are under fire. In the U.S. the soldiers do not even have access to ammunition without going through channels. The only people on Ft. Hood that had firearms and ammo were the police officers. I believe it was a female civilian police officer that first wounded the perpatrator and was wounded in the process.

I heard that too. But in my time in the Army, MPs carried firearms. And civilian Police were only allowed on base with an MP escort.

[ghengis86]

Overloading with confusion and disinfo now makes it easier later if things need to be tweaked for security or PR or saving face reasons.

bingo

[pcosmar]

Are not all police officers contractors (mercenaries)?

An earlier story had the MP as a "Contractor" (Blackwater/Xe).or Ravenwood if that makes it clearer.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Something is fishy here. Maybe they needed to bury today's historic rally in the Capitol Building?

it sounds too weird

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_jsHIajLmnh8/SQ5epGtbAAI/AAAAAAAAlTc/DaarbjQguk8/s400/tinfoil+hat.jpg

[Andrew-Austin]

These werent helpless elementary school kids he was popping with his HANDGUN.

He shot FORTY THREE SOLDIERS.....

Something is fishy here. Maybe they needed to bury today's historic rally in the Capitol Building?

it sounds too weird....all the initial reports said THREE shooters ...now its one dude with hanguns.

Personally I don't find this story very suspicious. A soldier finally cracked at the prospect of re-deployment. Details are sketchy in all the pandemonium.

I don't remember them saying (watched MSNBC around two) there were in fact three shooters, they were just throwing out the prospect of accomplishes because of hazy witness accounts. The media always throws out possibilities and speculation, when they have little idea what is going on. And people aren't very good witnesses.

[virgil47]

An earlier story had the MP as a "Contractor" (Blackwater/Xe).or Ravenwood if that makes it clearer.

Due to the shortage of active duty military police (MP's) most bases employ civilian security companies to provide gate guards and to fill in in other police positions as needed. This is the norm in today's military.

[ghengis86]

Personally I don't find this story very suspicious. A soldier finally cracked at the prospect of re-deployment. Details are sketchy in all the pandemonium.

I don't remember them saying (watched MSNBC around two) there were in fact three shooters, they were just throwing out the prospect of accomplishes because of hazy witness accounts. The media always throws out possibilities and speculation, when they have little idea what is going on.

had he ever been deployed before?

[ghengis86]

Due to the shortage of active duty military police (MP's) most bases employ civilian security companies to provide gate guards and to fill in in other police positions as needed. This is the norm in today's military.

any insight on why that is?

[phill4paul]

any insight on why that is?

Better pay in the civilian world?

[FindLiberty]

This whole story smells of gubermint. There'll be a fool investigation with coverups and dis-info-a-plenty.

I can't wait to hear the MSM harp: Soldiers don't kill people, guns do...
The military should make love not war, bring back "don't ask - don't tell...

Sorry 43 people were shot, but after all, this world IS going crazy, right? Or is it just me?

[virgil47]

any insight on why that is?

An all volunteer military is mostly to blame. The various branches of the military have to choose between training their personnel in career fields that are police orientated or maintenance orientated. Soldiers do not make the best police as they are trained to kill not apprehend. Tanks, trucks and airplanes take precedence when it comes to training. I'm sorry to say but being a law enforcement officer in the military does not require as large a skill set as being a mechanic therefore the lack of military personnel is made up by hiring security companies.

[gls]

Most of the shooting apparently took place in a medical clinic waiting room. Draw your own conclusions about the physical condition of most of the victims.

-t

The article I read said the soldiers were being prepped for deployment.



had he ever been deployed before?


No, this would've been his first time.

[TheConstitutionLives]

Something is fishy here.


Everything is fishy to you. Get out of the basement and get some sunshine.

[TruckinMike]

There were only 2 civilians, one was a cop(still alive). Civilian police are the majority. -- but they also have MP's. Every time that I've been there I've only noticed civilian.

Also.. the shooter has also been muslim all his life, born and raised in America, Roanoke, VA,. Career military, enlisted right out of highschool. "A good American", supposedly he was harassed about his faith and middle eastern ethnicity, he requested to not be deployed to Iraq, but was order to Iraq against his wishes.

he also made "outlandish comments" ... "muslims should stand up and fight the aggressor" meaning the US military. After the Little Rock shooting he again said "maybe we should have more of these shootings"...

Listen to all of this (with discretion) at this link - http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=11337495&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572345,00.html#

TMike

[Bucjason]

It's time to start the Ft Hood Truthers movement !!

http://a4.vox.com/6a00c225278752549d011016cc17dc860d-500pi

[olehounddog]

It was a very target rich environment. Even if you miss your 1st target there are more behind it. If you get people running through a doorway all you got to do is fire through the opening there will be a target there till the room empties. Just guessin though.

[SWATH]

A military base, like a school, is similarly a "gun free" zone. No one carries except MPs/security. I can imagine unauthorized possession of a firearm on base would yield a much more severe punishment.

[Elwar]

I worked at Fort Hood and one of my co-workers used to drive up from San Antonio and stay in a seedy motel during the week. He wanted to bring a gun with him so that he could have it at the motel at night for protection but there was no way for him to drive up and keep the gun in his car if he was going to drive onto post.

Gun free zones are ripe for the picking for crazies.

How many times do you hear on the news "Mass shooting at NRA meeting"?

[paulitics]

I worked at Fort Hood and one of my co-workers used to drive up from San Antonio and stay in a seedy motel during the week. He wanted to bring a gun with him so that he could have it at the motel at night for protection but there was no way for him to drive up and keep the gun in his car if he was going to drive onto post.

Gun free zones are ripe for the picking for crazies.

How many times do you hear on the news "Mass shooting at NRA meeting"?

Almost every mass shooting in the last 10 years have been in a gun free zone.

Ron Paul needs to address this ASAP.

[Maestro232]

Gun free zones are ripe for the picking for crazies. How many times do you hear on the news "Mass shooting at NRA meeting"?

It does make one wonder how good our homeland defense is when a military base isn't a safe place to walk around. For some reason this reminds me of how easily Ali Mohammad infiltrated Fort Bragg and sent our military secrets to Osama. Shouldn't our bases be a little better guarded than this?

[Dr.3D]

It's pretty easy to kill a lot of soldiers when somebody makes up a stupid law to keep them unarmed.

[mconder]

How can you shoot 43 soldiers with a handgun?

That's what I was thinking. That guy must be fuckin Neo.

[ctiger2]

http://www.worldreports.org/news/244_fort_hood_recovery_of_the_chinese_currency_box es

FORT HOOD: RECOVERY OF THE CHINESE CURRENCY BOXES
OPERATION TO SEIZE BACK BOX GANG’S LOOT MASKED BY SHOOTINGS

Friday 6 November 2009 02:15


THE FORT HOOD SHOOTINGS: THE REAL STORY
The shootings were staged in order to cover up what was really happening behind the scenes which was as follows:

(1): George H. W. D. V. D. Bush, the head of THE BOX GANG working with the Clintons, had stored some or all of the stolen/diverted 1933 dollar currency Chinese currency boxes referenced in our reports dated 4th and 5th November 2009 at Fort Hood. These boxes form part of the Settlement negotiated with the Chinese parties, who were immediately double-crossed by the Americans.

(2): We do not know at the time of posting whether George Bush Sr. had flown in to Fort Hood from Germany, but as this base is located close to Crawford and other Bush Crime Family locations, we believe this to be HIGHLY PROBABLE.

(3): Whether Bush Sr. flew into Fort Hood to be joined with the stolen/diverted Chinese-sourced currency boxes, or was accompanying stolen boxes on the plane, is not strictly material, because what we DO KNOW is as follows:

(4): An operation was mounted at Fort Hood to CONFISCATE THE STOLEN CHINESE CURRENCY BOXES FROM BUSH SR., which achieved its objective. The currency boxes, forming part of the Settlement that Adolf Schickelbusch sabotaged with the duplicitous assistance of his agent, Chancellor Angela Merkel [see preceding reports], were retrieved.

(5): It is likely that the shoot-out which occurred for public consumption was a diversionary operation masking a parallel shoot-out involving Bush bodyguards and US military, although we cannot confirm this. Certainly, the 'mainstream' media, as usual, is running the wrong story.

(6): The deployment of 500+ heavily armed troops, and the fact that military helicopters were called in, implies a sizeable operation, which would be make little sense in the context of a shooting such as is described in the media. That does not diminish the nastiness and tragedy of the loss of life as reported: but when this operation was planned, loss of life was factored into the equation.

:D

[armstrong]

bump

[JK/SEA]

//

[Pericles]

I too have a question on why MILITARY personnel were killed like little school girls at a birthday party. Aren't these guys trained to kill with or with out weapons?, and where is the bravery in all this? how come there wasn't a LETS ROLL battle cry and a rush of guys to take him down when this started?...seems they all panicked.I know its easy for me to say, but geez...c'mon...10 minutes of shooting and nobody could tackle this guy? finally took a female cop with a gun to end it. I don't know, maybe there were some who tried and died...not getting the full story yet..damn...what a waste. No excuse.

92% of the Army consists of truck drivers, box movers, wrench turners, clerks, and medics. The other 8%, fight using weapons and train to attack something. The 92% fire an issued weapon once a year (less than 100 rounds), unless in the sandbox and then come under attack.

One of the things about an all volunteer force, is that few citizens really understand how the military works.

[Ranger29860]

It would be very easy for a single person to shoot 43 people. Think about it your sitting there minding your own business and all of a sudden gunfire erupts you got at least 2-5 seconds of confusion. Not to mention the panic after words. Also i have read nowhere that he shot 43 individually he could have easily shot multiple people in one shot. As for all you saying that this is fishy GET OUT OF YOUR BASEMENT

The reason we heard 3 people originally is because of the confusion surrounding the incident. And the fact that they took two others into custody. Hell they even admitted to not knowing the guy was still alive for a little bit.
The media will spread whatever crap they get there hands on no matter if its confirmed or not.

As for why they didn't take him down sooner. No one was armed. Rushing the guy is suicide. They might have been soldiers but even in best cases humans facing that situation will run for it.

I'm currently stationed at Fort Hood. Deployed to Iraq at the moment this news has really hit home for me and allot of fellow troops i had to go through that building on my way out and will have to on my way back in. Coming on to this board and seeing some people react to this like it is a conspiracy theory sickens me. This is a case of a coward who instead of doing the honorable thing and living up to his oath whether it be taking a court martial or deserting because of his strong moral convictions (i use that term lightly) decided to kill his fellow troops.

[MelissaWV]

How many soldiers died elsewhere yesterday, I wonder...

[Expatriate]

This might explain the high casualty rate for a single shooter.

http://militarytimes.com/news/2009/11/army_shooting_hood_110509/
"Officials are not ruling out the possibility that some of the casualties may have been victims of “friendly fire.” In the confusion at the shooting scene, some of the responding military officials may have shot some of the victims."


This article also says that the two handguns Hasan used were a .357 and some kind of semi-automatic. I'm assuming the .357 was a revolver.

[wizardwatson]

From the article:


"Soldiers who witnessed the rampage reported that the gunman shouted “Allahu Akbar!” — an Arabic phrase for “God is great!” — before opening fire, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander. He said officials had not yet confirmed that Hasan made the comment before the shooting spree."

What an idiot if this is true.

"God is great! Now allow me to demonstrate that I've understood nothing of His teachings."


In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan’s aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and he wanted out of the Army.

“Some people can take it and some people cannot,” she said. “He had listened to all of that and he wanted out of the military.”

Wah, Wah. I have in-laws, and many friends/acquaintances of Islamic and Hindu variety. Everyone was getting harassed who even looked remotely 'brown' at that time. Didn't matter if you were from Brazil, Bengal, or Bangladesh....youse was Al'Kaida back in them days.

It's just sad the way he fell into his own mental trap. This was not the way.

There's just no justification ever for killing innocent people, even if you think you are saving more innocent people in the long run. It doesn't work like that.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[0zzy]

Now I know how conspiracies start, because people spread stupid crap over the internet they have no knowledge of.

OMG A MILITARY BASE! THEY GOTZ GUNS! HOW THIZ MAN SHOOT EM WITH HANDGUN LAWLZ!

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[Pericles]

the point is....

The people who you believe are keeping you safe whether it's military, police, or whoever else you artificially trust with your safety are just regular people subject to the same flaws of humanity no matter how perfect you think the application screening process is.

ftw!

[JohnMeridith]

I read a report where the handgun used was an fn 57. If thats the case, 20rd mags with 10rd extensions make a lot of firepower easy to carry around. He could easily have had 5-7 mags with 30rds each in them

[Old Ducker]

How many soldiers died elsewhere yesterday, I wonder...

+1 for perspective.

[AutoDas]

The point is....

the people who you believe are keeping you safe whether it's military, police, or whoever else you artificially trust with your safety are just regular people subject to the same flaws of humanity no matter how perfect you think the application screening process is.

that's not what the point of this thread was

[1000-points-of-fright]

Plus, the 5.7x28mm round is designed to defeat body armor, so I bet at least a few bullets went through the first body and into a second. I also heard that a number of injuries may have been caused by the security guards shooting back. It will be interesting to find out who shot who after the final ballistic analysis.