Shooting at Fort Hood. 7 Dead, 12 wounded!

[Uriel999]

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/dpgo_multiple_casualties_at_fort_hood1257452196538

7 Dead, 12 Wounded at Ft. Hood

Published : Thursday, 05 Nov 2009, 3:03 PM EST

KILLEEN, Texas - Officials at the Fort Hood Army Base in Killeen say seven people are dead and at least 12 are wounded in a mass shooting on the Fort property.

The attack apparently happened at the Soldier Readiness Center.

Army personnel say they are not certain whether the victims are civilians or military personnel.

The Fort Hood public affairs spokesman said the Army is setting up a special operations center to handle the response.

[Kotin]

any info on the culprits?

[angelatc]

I just turned on the TV and heard this. It's hard to watch Fox. They're almost hoping it's a terror attack.

[Vessol]

Very sad. My prayers for those who lost loved ones and those injured.

[haaaylee]

fuck! my brother in law is stationed there. . .

[angelatc]

fuck! my brother in law is stationed there. . .

Oh no. Prayers for your BIL.

[Vessol]

fuck! my brother in law is stationed there. . .

There's a lot of people stationed there, statistically I'm almost positive your brother is fine.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Gee - a bill to extend and expand DHS just started in the house and the senate is talking about trying and jailing "terrorists" in the US while there is a hearing about what is considered "torture" in one of the committees...

WHATTA coincidence? - It's amazing how these incidents correspond to the Congressional calender so often...

I'm not one for tin foil hats - but there has been a pattern going on for a WHILE where every single time Congress takes up these type of issues - something bad happens.

Well, that and have to have something to bump the tea party from the lead story....

:rolleyes:

-t

[Vessol]

Got to love it Sheperd Smith automatically jumps to the gun of "Its terrorists!"

[UnReconstructed]

there was another shooting in Killeen when I was in high school... must be something in the water there.

or the public schools.

[pcosmar]

Reports are (at this time) the shooters were in military uniforms.

:(

[Vessol]

1 arrested, 1 is surrounded, 1 is still on the loose apparently.

[angelatc]

Reports are (at this time) the shooters were in military uniforms.

:(
I heard fatigues, but that's not really what I would call uniform.

3 shooters.

Well, it's going to be hard for the gun-grabbers to move to ban weapons from Army bases.

I hope.

Fox is reporting that the FBI is headed there to help. Jurisdictional issues...

[Vessol]

FBI was there awfully fast.

[Bodhi]

I heard fatigues, but that's not really what I would call uniform.


When they say fatigues, they are probably referring to a soldiers BDU (Battle Dress Uniform). Those are the Cami uniforms Soldiers usually wear on duty.

[AuH20]

Shooting at a military installation during Guy Fawkes Day? You couldn't write a crazier script. ;):D

[Bruno]

Coincidence?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=217580

Regardless, it could be used as justification.

[angelatc]

When they say fatigues, they are probably referring to a soldiers BDU (Battle Dress Uniform). Those are the Cami uniforms Soldiers usually wear on duty.

I get that, but it wouldn't be too hard to imagine early reports confusing K-Mart fatigues with military issue fatigues.

Maybe we can play "guess the conspiracy that either invoked this incident or this incident was designed to invoke." Regardless, those of you who can TIVO news should, I guess. This could be the false flag.

[MelissaWV]

wow... I was totally going to JOKINGLY suggest that it "must be the terrorists :rolleyes: " but the "real" news media beat me to it? Really? What's this say for the US of A and its "anti-terr'ist" programs if there was terrorism ON a military base? We're supposed to defeat terrorism overseas but there's terrorists at Ft. Hood!

Or, someone had a bad day. Or, several someones. Or, people are just crazy. Or, people don't want to deploy/redeploy. Or, someone decided to make it look like any of the above happened for their own purposes.

But yah! Terrorists! *sighs*

[hillbilly123069]

Why are they doing it???
They had to know the cost of their actions!
A price that is as high as it it gets for something possibly so important.I would ask that everyone keep an open mind.It might just possibly be 3 trying to keep their oaths.

[Vessol]

Wonder if they may try to claim they are members of Oath Keepers, and were right wing extremists.

[pcosmar]

http://www.news8austin.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=257767

News reports indicated the attack could have been a terrorist attack, however, NBC's Pete Williams reported a federal official has said early indications suggest that the incident involved "all military, both shooters and victims."
Bold by me.

[Uriel999]

30 injured.

[GunnyFreedom]

I am very disturbed by this. A lone gunman could easily be someone going off the deep end, you know, cheese slipping off his cracker. But three soldiers? Coordinated? Something is very amiss here. This does not 'smell' like someone goes nuts and goes out to kill random people. I can imagine about a dozen possibilities, none of them good. Toughts and prayers for everybody involved, and especially prayers that we learn the real truth of what is going on here.

[wizardwatson]

Why are they doing it???
They had to know the cost of their actions!
A price that is as high as it it gets for something possibly so important.I would ask that everyone keep an open mind.It might just possibly be 3 trying to keep their oaths.

Huh?????????????

I think I know what you are saying but will withhold my response if you could clarify.

My guess is, its the same yahoo's it always is. Thrill seeking cowards with bad upbringing and an untreated case of bi-polar disorder on a suicide mission.

[1000-points-of-fright]

It's a government conspiracy to pre-empt Glenn Beck's show at 5pm. Can't have the Judge, Peter Schiff, Ron Paul, Rand Paul and John Stossel all on TV at the same time.

[klamath]

When they say fatigues, they are probably referring to a soldiers BDU (Battle Dress Uniform). Those are the Cami uniforms Soldiers usually wear on duty.
The army pretty much wears ACU's (Army Combat Uniform) in the digital patern now but you point is still valid. Just getting you up to date on the newest unform.
It sounds like someone just flipped out and I hope it isn't someone that hated to war and figured they were doing their constitution duty.

Edit: three people flipped out.

[constituent]

Well that's a damn shame.

I wonder how many families their cause was worth?

[pcosmar]

I am very disturbed by this. A lone gunman could easily be someone going off the deep end, you know, cheese slipping off his cracker. But three soldiers? Coordinated? Something is very amiss here. This does not 'smell' like someone goes nuts and goes out to kill random people. I can imagine about a dozen possibilities, none of them good. Toughts and prayers for everybody involved, and especially prayers that we learn the real truth of what is going on here.

I think we are on the same page. More to this story, and I will be watching it.

Seems planed, but tactically flawed. :confused:

[pcosmar]

Edit: three people flipped out.

At the same time and place.
Curious. (in a bad way)

[Dieseler]

One person flips out.
Not three.
9 dead 27 injured.

[Reason]

men and woman are dying daily in our occupations around the world but the second it happens here everyone flips a bitch and you get 24/7 msm coverage with boatloads of concern and conjecture...

[Dieseler]

men and woman are dying daily in our occupations around the world but the second it happens here everyone flips a bitch and you get 24/7 msm coverage with boatloads of concern and conjecture...

When it happens here more of our Freedoms are lost.
That may sound selfish but its true.

[Meatwasp]

I am very disturbed by this. A lone gunman could easily be someone going off the deep end, you know, cheese slipping off his cracker. But three soldiers? Coordinated? Something is very amiss here. This does not 'smell' like someone goes nuts and goes out to kill random people. I can imagine about a dozen possibilities, none of them good. Toughts and prayers for everybody involved, and especially prayers that we learn the real truth of what is going on here.

I am with you there Gunny. A planned attack for sure.

[Reason]

Violence All Too Familiar at Fort Hood

A mass shooting Thursday at Fort Hood in Texas was the latest in a series of violence incidents at the military post in the past two years.

In September 2008, a 21-year-old Fort Hood soldier shot to death his lieutenant during a confrontation at his off-base apartment before turning the gun on himself.

The lieutenant and a staff sergeant went to the Army specialist's apartment, and a confrontation ensued. Killeen police officers responded to a call of a man with a gun, and they saw the specialist hit and then shoot the lieutenant as they arrived at the scene, Killeen police spokesman Carroll Smith said.

Two months later a New York parolee with an extensive criminal record was executed for robbing, raping and fatally shooting an Army medic at her apartment near Fort Hood.
Denard Manns, 42, who came to Texas after a second prison sentence in New York for armed robbery, was condemned for the murder 10 years ago of Michelle Robson, 26.

In July of 2009, Fort Hood Spc. Armano Baca was charged with murdering fellow soldier Spc. Ryan Richard Schlack from Wisconsin. Baca and Schlack were members of the 1st Calvary Division and had recently returned from tours in Iraq. Schlack was shot during a party at the Central Texas Army post and died at a Fort Hood hospital July 18.

Three months ago Spc. Jared Lee Bottorff was charged with murder after a shooting at a party near the post. At the time, police said Bottorff and another soldier was at a party at house when a fight broke out and someone was shot and killed. Bottorff was jailed on $1 million bond.

[AuH20]

An officer among the assailants. Uh oh.

[Reason]

I am very disturbed by this. A lone gunman could easily be someone going off the deep end, you know, cheese slipping off his cracker. But three soldiers? Coordinated? Something is very amiss here. This does not 'smell' like someone goes nuts and goes out to kill random people. I can imagine about a dozen possibilities, none of them good. Toughts and prayers for everybody involved, and especially prayers that we learn the real truth of what is going on here.

I would be willing to bet that it ends up being only one "gunman".

[Vessol]

Jesus christ, that one Fox news pundit is going off his rocker talking about how it is a lone wolf terrorist cell.

[MsDoodahs]

Yeah, I just heard one of the shooters is an officer.

I'm NOT from a military family - what are the implications?

[klamath]

At the same time and place.
Curious. (in a bad way)

There are a lot of disgruntled troops and will only get worse after they lose all faith in the missions. The weak nuts crack and can easily team up with other weak nuts.
Many of the school shootings are teamed nuts.

[paulitics]

Jesus christ, that one Fox news pundit is going off his rocker talking about how it is a lone wolf terrorist cell.

Is he insane or reading a script. It is premature to call it anything. If 3 people are involved, common sense should dictate that it is a coordinated attack. Whether it is a terrorist attack within, or outside the military remains unknown.

[Reason]

Yeah, I just heard one of the shooters is an officer.

I'm NOT from a military family - what are the implications?

An "officer" is not a big deal... it just means they had a college degree and get paid more to do less work and tell everyone else what to do.

[wizardwatson]

I am with you there Gunny. A planned attack for sure.

Columbine was also a planned attack though. You get one psycho and a couple other weak-minded individuals for psycho to manipulate and you've got yourself recipe for "terrorism".

[MsDoodahs]

Also - I saw something just this morning about military being ready to revolt because of Obama not sending troops to Afghanistan. I will try to find it now.

[LittleLightShining]

The Judiciary Committee bill would eliminate the Patriot Act's never-used "lone wolf" section. This permits the government to spy on non-Americans even when they're not linked to a recognized terrorist group.

Interesting that this is what happened to the Patriot Act today.

[kahless]

One person flips out.
Not three.
9 dead 27 injured.

I am hearing 3 that were all US soldiers, confirmed shooter dead and 2 suspects.

[legion]

The kids are coming back really screwed up. I read one story of a guy riding around town in a friend's SUV. He got the driver to stop and shot an innocent man just walking down the street with an AK-47.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/us/13vets.html

[Reason]

YouTube - Army: 7 Dead, 20 Wounded in Fort Hood Shootings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McXHqVV-kLU)

[Vessol]

I'm not believing anything solidly until tomorrow, details are always really sketchy in the first few hours.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

I'm not believing anything solidly until tomorrow, details are always really sketchy in the first few hours.

Are you sure you will believe it then ?

[pacelli]

I'm not believing anything solidly until tomorrow, details are always really sketchy in the first few hours.

If there's any type of shenanigans going on with this story, the first few hours is when mistakes will be made in their official story.

[Dieseler]

I am hearing 3 that were all US soldiers, confirmed shooter dead and 2 suspects.

Aye, I'm just saying that groups generally don't flip out.. It may be just one though, dunno, but they have two others in custody so theres still the possibility this was a planned attack.

12 dead and 36 wounded... Two hand guns...

[Vessol]

Are you sure you will believe it then ?

No, but the details will be more concrete. I'm more talking about, the number killed, the number wounded, how many shooters, etc. Not subjectives like motives.

[pcosmar]

I'm not believing anything solidly until tomorrow, details are always really sketchy in the first few hours.

Yup
News can be messy.
Best wait till it's sanitized. :rolleyes:


If there's any type of shenanigans going on with this story, the first few hours is when mistakes will be made in their official story.

This has been my experience as well.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Shooter was US Soldier, used handgun. 2 additional "suspects" being held, reports sketchy...

[moostraks]

YouTube - Army: 7 Dead, 20 Wounded in Fort Hood Shootings (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McXHqVV-kLU)

12 Dead, 30 Wounded in Fort Hood Shootings
Reports say two gunmen opened fire at Army base

http://www.newser.com/story/73425/12-dead-30-wounded-in-fort-hood-shootings.html

roughly 5 minutes ago updated...

My guess is that details are sketchy right now so herein lay the confusion in numbers...

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

No, but the details will be more concrete. I'm more talking about, the number killed, the number wounded, how many shooters, etc. Not subjectives like motives.

Just asking ;)

[Dieseler]

I'd be looking for some pre written legislation to emerge and be rushed through.
Obamaba now to preempt Beck as planned.

[sevin]

Damn, Fox News really is hoping it's related to Al-Qaeda. To the people they interview: "Are you sure it's not terrorism?" "Could it be a sleeper cell?" etc. Sheesh.

[moostraks]

3...2..1..To oathkeepers are the terrorists claim on msm.

Or is that what they were alluding to already?

TV watching folks any feedback on this?

[MsDoodahs]

http://www.truthout.org/1102096

I have not read that piece, but I knew I saw a thread about that somewhere earlier today.

Went back and found it...

[ronpaulhawaii]

hearing that it was an active duty Major with an Arabic name...

[devil21]

Some soldiers not happy about Obama talking seriously about getting out of Afghanistan yesterday? That's my theory. Maybe the MIAC report about "disgruntled war vets" was right? It never occured to me at the time that some could be disgruntled by withdrawing completely, viewing the loss of lives as a waste. That's my initial guess.

[Vessol]

So they are disgruntled because Obama is saying he is withdrawing from Afghanistan(which he really isn't and is expanding the war), so if they knew the truth instead of watching Fox, they'd love Obama?

[NYgs23]

I'm not really an expert on these sorts of things, but how can 48 people be shot on a military base by one guy with a handgun before he's taken down?

[Dieseler]

Some soldiers not happy about Obama talking seriously about getting out of Afghanistan yesterday? That's my theory. Maybe the MIAC report about "disgruntled war vets" was right? It never occured to me at the time that some could be disgruntled by withdrawing completely, viewing the loss of lives as a waste. That's my initial guess.

I've heard nothing to corroborate this . I don't see this being the case at all. Not to the point of committing violence against their fellow soldiers.


So they are disgruntled because Obama is saying he is withdrawing from Afghanistan(which he really isn't and is expanding the war), so if they knew the truth instead of watching Fox, they'd love Obama?

Or this. /Shrug.



hearing that it was an active duty Major with an Arabic name...

Oh boy.

[paulitics]

Obama addressing the nation right now.

[sevin]

Some soldiers not happy about Obama talking seriously about getting out of Afghanistan yesterday?

I never heard about that. Link?

[Reason]

with an arabic name...

dear god

faux will shit it's pants with happiness if this is true...

[Reason]

I'm not really an expert on these sorts of things, but how can 48 people be shot on a military base by one guy with a handgun before he's taken down?

You've obviously never been on a "military base".

There is nothing "secure" about a military base during normal operation.

It's pretty much like a shopping mall in terms of people just milling about.

Security forces are few and far between and usually n00bs in training.

[unconsious767]

I'm not really an expert on these sorts of things, but how can 48 people be shot on a military base by one guy with a handgun before he's taken down?

I'm hearing 3 guys, 2 in custody and 1 dead. Weapons are more than just handguns. We'll see.

[ronpaulhawaii]

dear god

faux will shit it's pants with happiness if this is true...

unconfirmed..., but reliable source from the base

[Expatriate]

I'm not really an expert on these sorts of things, but how can 48 people be shot on a military base by one guy with a handgun before he's taken down?

Isn't it illegal to have a gun while on a military base even if you have a carry permit?

Maybe that has something to do with why he could shoot so many people. No resistance.

[MsDoodahs]

MSNBC reporting senior officer, of major rank.

wow.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I'm hearing 3 guys, 2 in custody and 1 dead. Weapons are more than just handguns. We'll see.

I'm hearing that the two others may have had nothing to do with it

[Slutter McGee]

The obvious solution to this problem is more gun control in the military. Perhaps a gun ban.

Sincerley,

Slutter McGee

[Vessol]

Fox is really pushing the terrorism button. They say they aren't, but they keep mentioning it every few minutes.

[Pericles]

I'm not really an expert on these sorts of things, but how can 48 people be shot on a military base by one guy with a handgun before he's taken down?

Because all government weapons, and private weapons owned by soldiers living in the barracks are locked up in the unit arms rooms, and can only be issued by order of the unit commander. If I was still a Troop commander, as soon as I heard this was going down, everybody in the Troop would get issued a pistol ASAP.

[Mandrik]

I posted this on my Facebook account just now to give my friends & family some food for thought:

This Ft. Hood incident is tragic. Think of how it makes you feel. Now imagine yourself in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan where innocent men, women, and children are dying daily as a result of US occupation/war. Think how that must feel to people living in those countries. None of these deaths can ever be justified as being for a good or right caues. You can try to lump it under, "fighting terrorism," or "defending freedom," but try explaining that to the displaced families that witness so much pain and suffering as a result of US foreign interventions or sanctions.

Murder is murder regardless of how you try to paint the picture. It is just as horrible when it happens on US soil to US citizens as it is on foreign soils to foreign citizens.

[easycougar]

hearing that it was an active duty Major with an Arabic name...

Suspected Gunman Is Identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/comments?type=story&id=9007938

[HOLLYWOOD]

MSNBC reporting senior officer, of major rank.

wow.


If it's the major mentioned in the previous post, that's field grade officer.

12 dead 31 wounded... no status whether Senior General officers were killed

[LibForestPaul]

Huh?????????????

I think I know what you are saying but will withhold my response if you could clarify.

My guess is, its the same yahoo's it always is. Thrill seeking cowards with bad upbringing and an untreated case of bi-polar disorder on a suicide mission.

If the were torturing Iraqis or bombing Afghanis or killing Republican guards, then they would be patriots.

Stop with the propaganda.

[RevolutionSD]

there was another shooting in Killeen when I was in high school... must be something in the water there.

or the public schools.

Or the fact that this is a violent organization and this is to be expected.

[Immortal Technique]

there going to blame it on us, that in which i mean patriots

[amy31416]

YouTube - News Conference - 12 Dead 31 Wounded By Soldiers At Fort Hood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I5lywZgp5A&feature=email)

[Dieseler]

I think they should blame it on extraordinary rendition to Uzbekistan.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Suspected Gunman Is Identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-killed-fort-hood-shooting/comments?type=story&id=9007938

And here comes the xenophobic shit-storm.

[devil21]

I never heard about that. Link?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2398623&postcount=21

Obama has told Karzai that the US will withdraw in 6 months if the corruption isn't "fixed".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6901770.ece

[klamath]

If it was a deployment center All the soldiers may have already been carring their issued weapon but no ammo. All the officer had to do was buy 9mm ammo and he could have out gunned everone there. The soldiers wouldn't have gotten their ammo allotment until getting off the plane in Iraq or Afganistan. On my training to deploy we had our weapons but no ammo except at the range. One day in training the instructors found a full clip of ammo in the truck we all bailed out of in reacting to ambush training. Everone was body searched and the whole battalian was locked down in the barracks and ever room was searched. Serious business.

[Vessol]

Well. I got to go to class. Going early because my school is right next to a military base and I don't want to be late to class in case they are searching cars or what-not.

[Dieseler]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2398623&postcount=21

Obama has told Karzai that the US will withdraw in 6 months if the corruption isn't "fixed".

They should begin the withdrawal now then.

[moostraks]

And here comes the xenophobic shit-storm.

no doubt...the comments there were horrifying. I must be really insultated as I have never witnessed such vile hate towards strangers.

[devil21]

They should begin the withdrawal now then.

I agree. Seems like a charade. I have a feeling today's events are tied in somehow. Guess we'll see but I doubt we'll get the truth from the MSM.

[Dieseler]

Yes, it all ties in together.
Everything.
I must admit that it is not obvious to the common man but to the insane like myself it is.

[JoshLowry]

483 soldier deaths from Fort Hood since the war started and FOX megaphones these 12 deaths so that public support will be gained for the murders in the middle east.

[Mandrik]

no doubt...the comments there were horrifying. I must be really insultated as I have never witnessed such vile hate towards strangers.

I saw this one at the top and instantly closed the page:

I have worked with and know Muslims: they are different. Those who naievely trust them are very gullible. Never let your guard down.

What a shame that people actually believe this kind of shit.

[amy31416]

483 soldier deaths from Fort Hood since the war started and FOX megaphones these 12 deaths so that public support will be gained for the murders in the middle east.

483??? :eek:

What the heck is going on down there?

[Johnnybags]

goes nuts in Texas, quick we need a diversion.

[Dieseler]

483??? :eek:

What the heck is going on down there?

I think meant in Iraq and Afghanistan from Fort Hood.

[klamath]

It is sounding more like just more casualities of the GWOT. Fighting them over there isn't going to stop them from getting here as RP has stated. This isn't the first time this has happened.

[squarepusher]

483??? :eek:

What the heck is going on down there?

483 troops from that base died, likely in the middle east


483 soldier deaths from Fort Hood since the war started and FOX megaphones these 12 deaths so that public support will be gained for the murders in the middle east.


yes, faux is great

[Old Ducker]

483??? :eek:

What the heck is going on down there?

I think he means deaths in Iraq and Afghantistan of soldiers originating from Ft. Hood.

[angelatc]

Seems like it might be a Pakistani name. There is a neurosurgeon with that same name who is Pakistani.

[Dieseler]

Oh boy, did this guy just convert to Islam?
Edit: I just heard that on another forum and it was attributed to FOX, no idea, still looking.
Holy Shit.

[klamath]

Violence finds a way to happen.

[HOLLYWOOD]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=2398623&postcount=21

Obama has told Karzai that the US will withdraw in 6 months if the corruption isn't "fixed".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6901770.ece


You know that's a load of crap... Obongo will never leave in 6 months, the MIC and Money Masters won't allowed it. That's "Political Window Dressing" for America's Public Ignorance.

[Umbro2914]

Rip

remember, remember the fifth of november,
the gunpowder treason and plot,
i know of no reason
why the gunpowder treason
should ever be forgot.

[wizardwatson]

If the were torturing Iraqis or bombing Afghanis or killing Republican guards, then they would be patriots.

Stop with the propaganda.


Ok, now what are you saying?! I'm spewing propaganda?!

It does feel like the general hostility level is up all over these boards.

I just was saying that the suspect/perps were likely crazy idiots like the Columbine kids or that kid at Virginia Tech, rather than some bonafide terrorist organization that we are at 'war' with.

I don't make blanket judgements about soldiers. They are just people. Some criminal, some not.

[amy31416]

I think he means deaths in Iraq and Afghantistan of soldiers originating from Ft. Hood.

Ahhhhh. That makes more sense.

[TER]

O Master, Lord our God, Who in Thy wisdom hast created man, and didst honor him with Thy Divine image, and place in him the spirit of life, and lead him into this world, bestowing on him the hope of resurrection and life everlasting; and after he had violated Thy commandments, Thou O Gracious lover of mankind, didst descend to the earth that Thou mightest renew again the creation of Thy hands. Therefore we pray Thee, O All-Holy Master give rest to the souls of Thy servants, in a place of brightness, a place of green pasture, a place of repose, and, in that they have sinned in word, or deed or thought forgive them: For Thou art a good God and lovest mankind and unto Thee do we ascribe Glory, together with Thy Father, Who is from everlasting and Thine All-Holy and good, and ever giving Spirit, now, and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.

[pacelli]

From PBN http://radio.netalarms.us:8000/listen.pls
12 KIA, 31 WIA, US Major Malikh Madal Hassan [sic] was one of the shooters who was also a US soldier.

Can also tune into the PBN reports for the next hour (6-7 eastern, 5-6 central) via the microeffect: www.themicroeffect.com .

[angelatc]

LOL @ Fox. They weren't going to say the guys name until the Pentagon confirmed it.

[devil21]

The neo-cons are going absolutely berzerk over this. It's almost funny to watch them get so frothy over the fact that the guy is/was a Muslim and therefore "Al Qaeda has inflitrated the military!! OoNoeeez!". Yet we've had several white guys go on shooting rampages over the last few months and no one gets frothy over it or says it's because of their religion.

Small minds irritate me.

[tangent4ronpaul]

shooter was apparently a "mental health" professional.

congress critter to neal covurto (sp?) on Fox Business just now (paraphrased) : "uh, yeah Neal - it's interesting that we are going over some provisions of the patriot act right now and it will be interesting to see how some of those provisions would have helped or hurt preventing something like this..."

uhhh - RIGHT!

-t

[Kbeaubs]

The neo-cons are going absolutely berzerk over this. ........... Yet we've had several white guys go on shooting rampages over the last few months and no one gets frothy over it or says it's because of their religion.

Small minds irritate me.

Your comment is blatantly false and filled with personal agenda. Any religious-hyped murder is ALWAYS acknowledged as so. Let me find a mirror for you.

[Dieseler]

shooter was apparently a "mental health" professional.

congress critter to neal covurto (sp?) on Fox Business just now (paraphrased) : "uh, yeah Neal - it's interesting that we are going over some provisions of the patriot act right now and it will be interesting to see how some of those provisions would have helped or hurt preventing something like this..."

uhhh - RIGHT!

-t


Oh boy.
Timing is everything they say.
Why can't we have a Congressman go postal for once?

[Anti Federalist]

First rule:

Organic, meaning "real" terrorism = zero to little media coverage.

False flag state sponsored terrorism = a media blitz of non stop coverage.

[MsDoodahs]

The man was a mental health professional?

Seriously?

I ask because the psych nurses I know are every one ... batshit crazy.

[catdd]

"uh, yeah Neal - it's interesting that we are going over some provisions of the patriot act right now and it will be interesting to see how some of those provisions would have helped or hurt preventing something like this..."

It's already starting. I just love the way they can twist an event around and use it as an excuse to deprive us of even more liberty and personal freedom.

"We already have enough Intelligence. What we need are intelligent people running it."
Ron Paul

[pcosmar]

I think I would be more interested in who the victims were. Did any have anything in common (aside from being military).? and what about the others involved?
This has an odor to it.

[paulitics]

Hannity forums are now making threads about how Islam should be banned.

[devil21]

Your comment is blatantly false and filled with personal agenda. Any religious-hyped murder is ALWAYS acknowledged as so. Let me find a mirror for you.

Bullshit!

The FIRST THING neo-cons do is rush to blame anybody with a muslim name as a "jihadist terrorist". THE FIRST THING! Go read the fucking 45 page thread on ar15.com if you don't believe me. Yet when it's a random white guy on a shooting spree (and we get a lot more of those), it's "He's a bad person that went crazy. So sad." NEVER does religion get brought into it as the FIRST excuse to demonize the shooter EXCEPT when it's a muslim name.

As if Muslim people are only capable of attacking people for religious reasons, yet white guys just go crazy. :rolleyes: Ask George Tiller about that. Oh wait, you can't because he was shot dead by an extremist Christian in a parking lot.
It's stereotypical and proves the small mindedness of people with that mind set.


Hannity forums are now making threads about how Islam should be banned.

Case in point! I get more frustrated by the day that the majority of people directing this country are idiots that love nothing more than jump to conclusions that further their personal agenda without having all (any?) of the facts. I find it highly ironic that Im accused of "personal agenda" when my personal agenda is to stop blaming religion as the cause of one group of people's bad actions. There's more than enough examples of religious people of different denominations doing horrible things in the name of their religions and there's more than enough examples of religious people doing horrible things that have nothing to do with their religion. I'm sick to death of the sheer hatred of anyone and anything "muslim" in this country. No wonder the blacks are celebrating these days....they aren't the stereotypical punching bag anymore. It's now anyone with a middle eastern sounding name.

[phill4paul]

The man was a mental health professional?

Seriously?

I ask because the psych nurses I know are every one ... batshit crazy.

I have a friend in the mental health field and he said that without exception everyone in his class went in to psych to resolve their own mental problems, including himself.

[JK/SEA]

The Major let it be known he didn't approve of the Iraq or Afgan war. Soooo....IF YOU WANT BLOOD, YOU GOT IT.

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

First rule:

Organic, meaning "real" terrorism = zero to little media coverage.

False flag state sponsored terrorism = a media blitz of non stop coverage.

qft

.....shit

[LibertyWorker]

Well looks like its time to invade Texas for Harboring terrorist.

Put some sanctions on them start bombing Dallas with some predator drones.

That's the logical thing to do Right ?

[pcosmar]

Who were the victims? Were they random? or were they targets?
It will take time before this is known. The focus is on the shooter, A Major, Educated, Vetted, and a "Eastern" name. What of the other 2 suspects.
I have questions, not assumptions.

but my nose doesn't like it.

[wizardwatson]

The Major let it be known he didn't approve of the Iraq or Afgan war. Soooo....IF YOU WANT BLOOD, YOU GOT IT.

But he is no different than those soldiers that do shoot and kill 'over there'. Crime is crime. Problem is there are so many weird situations in the world, it's hard to see who the criminal is (in the case of wars and conflict zones...in this case, its probably going to be quite clear). That's why it's best to back off, assume defensive posture until the enemy shows itself. If we blindly flail at at unseen enemy, we end of obstructing our own goals.

We can't prevent wackos, we have to study them. That's part of why I hate when they kill themselves. Destroying valuable information.

[catdd]

They've had time to release the other names but they're dragging their feet.

[Kbeaubs]

Bullshit!

The FIRST THING neo-cons do is rush to blame anybody with a muslim name as a "jihadist terrorist". THE FIRST THING! Go read the fucking 45 page thread on ar15.com if you don't believe me. Yet when it's a random white guy on a shooting spree (and we get a lot more of those), it's "He's a bad person that went crazy. So sad." NEVER does religion get brought into it as the FIRST excuse to demonize the shooter.

As if Muslim people are only capable of attacking people for religious reasons, yet white guys just go crazy. :rolleyes:
It's stereotypical and proves the small mindedness of people with that mind set.



Case in point! I get more frustrated by the day that the majority of people directing this country are idiots that love nothing more than jump to conclusions that further their personal agenda without having all (any?) of the facts. I find it highly ironic that Im accused of "personal agenda" when my personal agenda is to stop blaming religion as the cause of one group of people's bad actions.

Ahh irony. One complaining with such a lack of eloquence about the exact same thing he's doing. At the same time he complains about simple minds. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Expatriate]

Wow. Some people think this is a great reason to ban guns, since apparently it's a popular belief that everyone on a US military base carries a loaded weapon.

Aren't there actually federal restrictions against carrying a firearm on a military base?



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-fort-hood-shooting,0,3860029,comment-display-all.story
So what do all the pro-gun advocates whose excuse for everything is "if only someone had a gun to stop them" have to say about this? Should every citizen be armed and ready every hour of the day? What a wonderful world that would be. Everyone carrying guns in bars and drinking, people carrying guns into sporting events, lets have people show up to presidential events with guns! The sad thing about certain people's obsession over "their guns" is during the 8 years in which your freedom was the most threatened by the Patriot Act and Bush White House, no one complained. But because a Black Democrat is in office, now all the lemmings of the right come out in protest. It is sad at how brainwashed people are.

More guns = more opportunities for mentally disturbed people who shouldn't have guns to use them.

From the story it sounds like the potential cause of this could be PTSD. That's just what we want, some unstable soldier suffering from the effects of war toting two handguns

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the wounded and fallen.

ArtVandelay2009 (11/05/2009, 4:59 PM )


This is why Joe Public needs the right to carry a weapon wherever he goes. If these people had been armed this never would've taken place. Oh, wait, it was at an army base? MMMM, maybe, just maybe, there were armed individuals there. Only 7 dead though. Only 20 wounded. America needs more guns!

john52il (11/05/2009, 3:22 PM )

[catdd]

I would tell them "guns are useless without ammo."
They are allowed weapons but not ammo until they are in the field. If these guys were locked and loaded the shooters would have been toast in no time.

[devil21]

Ahh irony. One complaining with such a lack of eloquence about the exact same thing he's doing. At the same time he complains about simple minds. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Empty rhetoric doesn't work on me. Gotta try harder. You know, explain your position using facts, references, links and other hard stuff like that.

I'm tired of RELIGION being the blame for everything someone does if they are muslim, yet it takes a flat out blatent religious motivation (like the Tiller incident) for religion to be the reason when it's someone OTHER than a muslim. Simple enough for you to understand?

Now go ahead, wow me with a diatribe about how all muslims are evil terrorists set on destroying all "infidels". The Koran says so right?

[klamath]

Wow. Some people think this is a great reason to ban guns, since apparently it's a popular belief that everyone on a US military base carries a loaded weapon.

Aren't there actually federal restrictions against carrying a firearm on a military base?

Sometimes I think everyone should be drafted so they know what it is like in the military and not make so many stupid statements about how military life is. Just kidding about the draft:D

[AuH20]

False flag state sponsored terrorism = a media blitz of non stop coverage.

It may not be false flag. Just a product of false flag events. ;)

[purplechoe]

Ahh irony. One complaining with such a lack of eloquence about the exact same thing he's doing. At the same time he complains about simple minds. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

....

[MsDoodahs]

I didn't realize that on bases, they aren't allowed to have loaded weapons. So this has been a super enlightening thing.

[MsDoodahs]

quit with the insults, people.

[MikeStanart]

Great, this piece of shit was skeptical of U.S. foreign policy. I can't wait for the talk-shows to start calling anyone skeptical of U.S. foreign policy a "domestic terrorist"

[devil21]

I didn't realize that on bases, they aren't allowed to have loaded weapons. So this has been a super enlightening thing.

Not only that but according to my quick research all weapons, private or government property, are required to be locked up in the armories when not in use for training reasons. There is no RKBA on military installations unless you have a need directly related to your immediate post, like MPs. However, this means little when civilians are free to come on and off base without being searched.

[catdd]

I didn't realize that on bases, they aren't allowed to have loaded weapons. So this has been a super enlightening thing.

Just the MPs. They were the ones that finally took the one out and arrested the other two.

[Liberty Star]

Well looks like its time to invade Texas for Harboring terrorist.

Put some sanctions on them start bombing Dallas with some predator drones.

That's the logical thing to do Right ?

Invasions are no longer an option. It would be probably at least 50 years before another invasion would be contemplated due to price of recent invasions.

[klamath]

I didn't realize that on bases, they aren't allowed to have loaded weapons. So this has been a super enlightening thing.
Privately owned weapon have to be locked in your units armory. Issued weapons are not issued unless you are training and ammo is only issued at live fire ranges or in a combat or imminent danger area.

As I stated earlier if these troops were deploying they probably had a lot of weapons including SAW's (Squad automatic weapons) but not a round of ammo.

[Meatwasp]

I have a friend in the mental health field and he said that without exception everyone in his class went in to psych to resolve their own mental problems, including himself.

Every shrink my husband did work for was nutty as heck. I don't say all though

[pcosmar]

Who were the victims and why was a Ranking Officer sent to silence them?

Way better than the "terrist" questions?

[devil21]

And still no release of info at all about the other two shooters in custody. I find that most peculiar.

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

shrinks are required to do the therapy before they can become shrinks. And just so you know, every last human on earth needs therapy. No exceptions. The difference is some people find it easier to operate in the world than others do.

[Jags~Beach]

I can not believe my thread regarding the muslim Killer got shut down.

Retired Col Terry Lee is on FOX right now talking about how the Muslim shooter made his views well known.

He had worked with and how after a period of time he felt uncomfortable with him to the point of looking forward to hear the investigative report revealing why he even got transfered from walter reid hospital to fort hood, thinking they may not have been comfortable with him as well.

Col Terry Lee is saying the Muslim killer made outlandish comments condeming our foreign policy claimging also that he said Muslims had a right to rise up and attack Americans and Iraq and Afganistan.

The COL had to tell the Muslim killer to shut up regarding sharing his views in public, because of the news people at a conference where he made the comment.

The Muslim killer made questionable comments about the shooting at the recruitment center where he seemedhappy about it to the point he was questioned by officers for his comments.

My thread gets burried for bringing to light the reality that this was indeed a terrorist attack? That is not cool.

[pcosmar]

And still no release of info at all about the other two shooters in custody. I find that most peculiar.

They need to be debriefed first.

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

I can not believe my thread regarding the muslim Killer got shut down.

Retired Col Terry Lee is on FOX right now talking about how the Muslim shooter made his views well known.

He had worked with and how after a period of time he felt uncomfortable with him to the point of looking forward to hear the investigative report revealing why he even got transfered from walter reid hospital to fort hood, thinking they may not have been comfortable with him as well.

Col Terry Lee is saying the Muslim killer made outlandish comments condeming our foreign policy claimging also that he said Muslims had a right to rise up and attack Americans and Iraq and Afganistan.

The COL had to tell the Muslim killer to shut up regarding sharing his views in public, because of the news people at a conference where he made the comment.

The Muslim killer made questionable comments about the shooting at the recruitment center where he seemedhappy about it to the point he was questioned by officers for his comments.

My thread gets burried for bringing to light the reality that this was indeed a terrorist attack? That is not cool.

keep it up buddy, i'll be flagging you all night. don't have to work tomorrow.

[phill4paul]

And just so you know, every last human on earth needs therapy. No exceptions.

Without exception every therapists I have spoken to believes this. Job security is a wonderful thing.

[tangent4ronpaul]

cousin just interviewed - guy had apparently been picked on since he joined because of his name and finally cracked.

Conveniently, immediately after that they announced that the other 2 being questioned had been cut loose so it's being considered "lone nut job"

-t

[AuH20]

Sounds like a personal vendetta.

[Liberty Star]

My thread gets burried for bringing to light the reality that this was indeed a terrorist attack? That is not cool.

Could it be because your thread was racist?
Racism is not cool also.

That said, some of the interesting threads get moved , don't know why.

[Jags~Beach]

keep it up buddy, i'll be flagging you all night. don't have to work tomorrow.

Flagging me for what? This was a terrorist act by a muslim who clearly took his own advice and stood up against the socalled oppressors.

What is with all the red flags is this a communist website now? good grief.

[devil21]

I can not believe my thread regarding the muslim Killer got shut down.

Retired Col Terry Lee is on FOX right now talking about how the Muslim shooter made his views well known.

He had worked with and how after a period of time he felt uncomfortable with him to the point of looking forward to hear the investigative report revealing why he even got transfered from walter reid hospital to fort hood, thinking they may not have been comfortable with him as well.

Col Terry Lee is saying the Muslim killer made outlandish comments condeming our foreign policy claimging also that he said Muslims had a right to rise up and attack Americans and Iraq and Afganistan.

The COL had to tell the Muslim killer to shut up regarding sharing his views in public, because of the news people at a conference where he made the comment.

The Muslim killer made questionable comments about the shooting at the recruitment center where he seemedhappy about it to the point he was questioned by officers for his comments.

My thread gets burried for bringing to light the reality that this was indeed a terrorist attack? That is not cool.

Uh, pardon me for asking the obvious question, but how would a RETIRED Colonel Fox News contributor have intimate knowledge of this particular soldier's motivations?

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

Without exception every therapists I have spoken to believes this. Job security is a wonderful thing.

believe what you want. i simply don't believe humans are perfect. it has been my experience that the people most resistant to 'help' are the ones who need it most

[pcosmar]

I can not believe my,,,
<snip>
.

JAG
Does that mean you are a military liar??

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

Flagging me for what? This was a terrorist act by a muslim who clearly took his own advice and stood up against the socalled oppressors.

What is with all the red flags is this a communist website now? good grief.

you haven't been here long. this is not the road you want to go down.

[pcosmar]

Uh, pardon me for asking the obvious question, but how would a RETIRED Colonel Fox News contributor have intimate knowledge of this particular soldier's motivations?
Sort of like the other Colonel, that should still be in a cell for criminal activity. ;)

[AuH20]

Flagging me for what? This was a terrorist act by a muslim who clearly took his own advice and stood up against the socalled oppressors.

What is with all the red flags is this a communist website now? good grief.

Sounds like his Muslim heritage was the secondary catalyst. He wanted to silence his critics, first and foremost. Secondly, you need to tone down the histrionics if you want to be taken seriously. Yes, Islam has a sketchy dogma and more extremists than your average cult but you can't come firing in here without all the details.

[klamath]

I can not believe my thread regarding the muslim Killer got shut down.

Retired Col Terry Lee is on FOX right now talking about how the Muslim shooter made his views well known.

He had worked with and how after a period of time he felt uncomfortable with him to the point of looking forward to hear the investigative report revealing why he even got transfered from walter reid hospital to fort hood, thinking they may not have been comfortable with him as well.

Col Terry Lee is saying the Muslim killer made outlandish comments condeming our foreign policy claimging also that he said Muslims had a right to rise up and attack Americans and Iraq and Afganistan.

The COL had to tell the Muslim killer to shut up regarding sharing his views in public, because of the news people at a conference where he made the comment.

The Muslim killer made questionable comments about the shooting at the recruitment center where he seemedhappy about it to the point he was questioned by officers for his comments.

My thread gets burried for bringing to light the reality that this was indeed a terrorist attack? That is not cool.

So what is your point. This isn't the first time people turned on their country. Research Benedict Arnold. Just because this guy apparently sided with middle eastern countrys how does that make all muslims killers? As I stated in your other thread I have served in the middle east with muslims and they didn't kill me.

[denison]

When it happens here more of our Freedoms are lost.
That may sound selfish but its true.
America's freedoms were lost along time ago, when we started warmongering around the world.

[Jags~Beach]

Could it be because your thread was racist?
Racism is not cool also.

That said, some of the interesting threads get moved , don't know why.

It was not racist at all. Islam is a religion who's bible the Koran tells its followers to kill in the name of god. Seeing a Muslim killing in the name of god, and calling it like I see it does not make me a racist.

This is a matter of religious preference not race.

[Pericles]

Not only that but according to my quick research all weapons, private or government property, are required to be locked up in the armories when not in use for training reasons. There is no RKBA on military installations unless you have a need directly related to your immediate post, like MPs. However, this means little when civilians are free to come on and off base without being searched.

The exception is that officers may keep their privately owned weapons in quarters instead of the arms room (I did). Anyone want to give odds on how long that regulation lasts?

[Vessol]

Only terrorists are against our foreign policy.

[AuH20]

It was not racist at all. Islam is a religion who's bible the Koran tells its followers to kill in the name of god. Seeing a Muslim killing in the name of god, and calling it like I see it does not make me a racist.

This is a matter of religious preference not race.

What's your solution? Genocide? Kill all the muslims? Perspective please.

[Liberty Star]

Sounds like his Muslim heritage was the secondary catalyst. He wanted to silence his critics. Secondly, you need to tone down the histrionics if you want to be taken seriously. Yes, Islam has a sketchy dogma and more extremists than your average cult but you can't be firing without all the details.


I used to think along those lines, but after learning about systemic violence in holy land in recent years, I'm not sure anymore if Islam produces the most radicals per capita.

[Dieseler]

//

[phill4paul]

believe what you want. i simply don't believe humans are perfect. it has been my experience that the people most resistant to 'help' are the ones who need it most

I don't believe that human beings are perfect either. Myself included and I'm comfortable in that knowledge. It allows me to make mistakes and not destroy my "self" over them and learn from them.
Have you started the clock yet? How much per billable hours?:p:D

[Dreamofunity]

People like Jag make me want to convert to Islam, just to piss them off.

[raiha]

Sorry everyone for this. Haayley hope your BIL is ok and his family. Even if he was not harmed, it would still be very shocking for him.

Most of us on the forum don't think we should be over there but there's a huge stretch between thinking/knowing that, and pre-meditated violence. But yeah watch out for Health Professionals (Ron Paul) who don't think we should be in Iraq. Watch out for the xenophobic shitstorm indeed.
I retreat to this forum when in need of intelligent commentary and Devil21... small minds irritate me too. Beautifully put!

[klamath]

The exception is that officers may keep their privately owned weapons in quarters instead of the arms room (I did). Anyone want to give odds on how long that regulation lasts?

Not long especially since this guy was a field grade officer.

[devil21]

It was not racist at all. Islam is a religion who's bible the Koran tells its followers to kill in the name of god. Seeing a Muslim killing in the name of god, and calling it like I see it does not make me a racist.

This is a matter of religious preference not race.

If the report that he snapped over the torment due to his name and religion is true then you've just been proven WRONG!

I find that story to be much more plausible than the notion that a muslim terrorist joined the US military, worked as a psychiatrist and made rank after years of service, all just to empty a couple of magazines into some other soldiers on a US military base.

It's the same story played out over and over with most mass shootings. This time people just jumped on the fact that he's muslim as the REASON for him snapping. Like I said, typical neo-con reaction.

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

I don't believe that human beings are perfect either. Myself included and I'm comfortable in that knowledge. It allows me to make mistakes and not destroy my "self" over them and learn from them.
Have you started the clock yet? How much per billable hours?:p:D

that's alright man, if you can make it through your life without it, more power to you. Just like most medical doctors, most psychs are not in it for the money. And it's not an easy job. You've seriously got to be about helping people.

[catdd]

So it was a lone shooter that did all that damage before he could be stopped?

[Pericles]

Not long especially since this guy was a field grade officer.

Now, only generals can be trusted until one of them goes batshit.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Now, only generals can be trusted until one of them goes batshit.

Next up: Sean Connery in "The Rock" :D

[klamath]

So it was a lone shooter that did all that damage before he could be stopped?
Officers carry M9 berettas. A clip holds 15 rounds, soldiers are grouped in tight groups, especially at a deployment center. Not a problem to do that kind of damage at all.

[AuH20]

Texas congressman is disputing the official story. He said there were multiple weapons being fired according to his source.

[phill4paul]

that's alright man, if you can make it through your life without it, more power to you. Just like medical doctors, most psychs are not in it for the money. And it's not an easy job. You've seriously got to be about helping people.

I agree that it is not an easy job. My friend truly gets the chance to help some people. Those he can't tears him up. He had a job working w/ abused children. A very dark time in his life. I'm glad he got out when he had all he could emotionally handle. That said I think it is the height of arrogance for a profession to believe that everyone needs their service.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Officers carry M9 berettas. A clip holds 15 rounds, soldiers are grouped in tight groups, especially at a deployment center. Not a problem to do that kind of damage at all.

What self-respecting Officer carrys 9MM? 1911 only! :D

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

I agree that it is not an easy job. My friend truly gets the chance to help some people. Those he can't tears him up. He had a job working w/ abused children. A very dark time in his life. I'm glad he got out when he had all he could emotionally handle. That said I think it is the height of arrogance for a profession to believe that everyone needs their service.

don't think of it as a profession that needs clientele, but a way for people to get what they need.

Everyone is a therapist and everyone needs therapy. "Therapists" just make it their lives' work and rightly get paid for it.

everyone needs music too. I'm making it my life's work and am rightly getting paid for it.

[pcosmar]

I suspect that details and records are being sanitized and updated. but there is this,
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/nadal-mailk-hasan-suspected-fort-hood-shooter-psychiatrist/story?id=9010466

Maj. Nadal Malik Hasan, the suspected shooter in the massacre at Fort Hood, was a psychiatrist at Darnall Army Medical Center on the base, according to records uncovered by ABC News.
Photo: Seven Soldiers Killed, 20 Wounded in Fort Hood Shooting: One Suspect in Custody, Search Is on for Second Shooter
The suspected gunman in the shooting at Fort Hood, Tex., was identified by ABC News as Army Major Malik Nadal Hasan, a psychiatrist trained by the military.

Hasan, 39, received his training through the Defense Department's F. Edward Hebert School of Medicine in Bethesda, Md., according to the records.

A military source was quoted by the Air Force Times as saying Hasan had recently been reassigned to Fort Hood from Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington. In 2009, sources tell ABC News, he completed a fellowship in Disaster and Preventative Psychiatry at the Center for Traumatic Stress there.


Hasan had no prior overseas deployments, a Pentagon official told ABC News.

Oh, and the MP that was shot was a mercenary.

[klamath]

What self-respecting Officer carrys 9MM? 1911 only! :D

I should say issued M9's:D

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

don't think of it as a profession that needs clientele, but a way for people to get what they need.

Everyone is a therapist and everyone needs therapy. "Therapists" just make it their lives' work and rightly get paid for it.

everyone needs music too. I'm making it my life's work and am rightly getting paid for it.

Everyone also needs Analrapists.

[devil21]

Texas congressman is disputing the official story. He said there were multiple weapons being fired according to his source.

It just gets more and more questionable. Time to start thinking CIA yet? :D

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

Everyone also needs Analrapists.

lol what?

[denison]

Everyone also needs Analrapists.

can't disagree with that. ;)

[phill4paul]

Oh, and the MP that was shot was a mercenary.

Linky Peter? I was just wondering about the terminology I have heard regarding this individual. Are you saying BlackWater type?

[easycougar]

Everyone also needs Analrapists.

Thanks Dr. Tobias Fünke

[raiha]

My heart sank when i heard Hasan was his name. Guess he never thought of the xenophobic backlash to other men and women of Middle Eastern descent in his pre-meditations.
It was a pretty extreme way to get out of going to Iraq!!!
I'm a MH professional so i can confirm that yes we are definitely slightly insane but generally in a lovable way. I guess violence begets violence and that is the problem here. It is a universal truth!

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

lol what?

Tobias Fünke meet ForLiberty, ForLiberty meet Tobias Fünke. :D

[Jags~Beach]

If the report that he snapped over the torment due to his name and religion is true then you've just been proven WRONG!

I find that story to be much more plausible than the notion that a muslim terrorist joined the US military, worked as a psychiatrist and made rank after years of service, all just to empty a couple of magazines into some other soldiers on a US military base.

It's the same story played out over and over with most mass shootings. This time people just jumped on the fact that he's muslim as the REASON for him snapping. Like I said, typical neo-con reaction.

Wrong? oh so now the terrorist is the victim? What part of the fact that a Muslim terrorist just went on another killing rampaige shooting over 40 people did you miss?

How have we become so brainwashed and polarized to make the terrorists out to be the victims? Are you kidding me?

You think Hasan would get away with making gest of soldiers getting shot at Little Rock to his fellow officers?

You think he would get away with claimging Muslims had a right to rise up and attack Americans and Iraq and Afganistan without being harrased by his pears who are on the front lines in war against the terror being unleashed by Muslims in order that the world can be taken over by the religion they are brainwashed with?

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

YouTube - Michael Scott - "Convicted Rapist" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Z8wq9Qnps)

[Dieseler]

A Contractor, mercenary.
I have no idea how any kind of rape got into this conversation...

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

Tobias Fünke meet ForLiberty, ForLiberty meet Tobias Fünke. :D

googling :D

*HAHA!! "Or it could be your colon. I'd want to get in there and find some answers." lol

[Liberty Star]

It was not racist at all. Islam is a religion who's bible the Koran tells its followers to kill in the name of god. Seeing a Muslim killing in the name of god, and calling it like I see it does not make me a racist.

This is a matter of religious preference not race.

Have you read OT? It sounds even more violent than muslims bible.

Do you understand why were Palestinian Christians like George Habash of PLFP blowing up Israeli planes in 70s? And why a Palestinian Christian assassinated Bobby Kennedy?

That's a good study in catalysts of modern violence.

[angelatc]

I can not believe my thread regarding the muslim Killer got shut down.

Retired Col Terry Lee is on FOX right now talking about how the Muslim shooter made his views well known.

He had worked with and how after a period of time he felt uncomfortable with him to the point of looking forward to hear the investigative report revealing why he even got transfered from walter reid hospital to fort hood, thinking they may not have been comfortable with him as well.

Col Terry Lee is saying the Muslim killer made outlandish comments condeming our foreign policy claimging also that he said Muslims had a right to rise up and attack Americans and Iraq and Afganistan.

The COL had to tell the Muslim killer to shut up regarding sharing his views in public, because of the news people at a conference where he made the comment.

The Muslim killer made questionable comments about the shooting at the recruitment center where he seemedhappy about it to the point he was questioned by officers for his comments.

My thread gets burried for bringing to light the reality that this was indeed a terrorist attack? That is not cool.

You're not cool, and could use a temp ban.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

googling :D

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/49431591_1f85a8689e.jpg

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

/thread derail

[klamath]

My heart sank when i heard Hasan was his name. Guess he never thought of the xenophobic backlash to other men and women of Middle Eastern descent in his pre-meditations.
It was a pretty extreme way to get out of going to Iraq!!!
I'm a MH professional so i can confirm that yes we are definitely slightly insane but generally in a lovable way. I guess violence begets violence and that is the problem here. It is a universal truth!
Unfortunately yes.

[Dr.3D]

Time will tell if Fox News has it right about the motive of the 'lone' killer.

*/waits for flames/*

Edit: And I'm not talking about the magazine either.

[AuH20]

Have you read OT? It sounds even more violent than muslims bible.

Do you understand why were Palestinian Christians like George Habash of PLFP blowing up Israeli planes in 70s? And why a Palestinian Christian assissanted Bobby Kennedy?

That's a good study in catalysts of modern violence.

Those were isolated cases far and few between. Islam is a violent religion that's further exacerbated by the poverty and autocratic dimension of the region. The Koran explicitly says that assimilation or death are the only two options for the infidels. With that said, I don't want to spill american blood and treasure fighting an over-exaggerated threat. The violent muslims are low on the priority list.

[Dieseler]

Time will tell if Fox News has it right about the motive of the 'lone' killer.

*/waits for flames/*

I turned it Doc, what did they come up with finally?

[Vessol]

I turned it Doc, what did they come up with finally?

They basically inferred that he thought it was good Muslims were fighting Americans in Iraq, so he thought he'd do the same here in America.

[Dr.3D]

I turned it Doc, what did they come up with finally?

They are still on the story that the guy was a recently converted Muslim and that he had been complaining about U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and how he thought the Muslims should fight back.

They are awaiting conformation on that story.

[pcosmar]

They are still on the story that the guy was a recently converted Muslim and that he had been complaining about U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and how he thought the Muslims should fight back.

They are awaiting conformation on that story.

That would be (more) conflicting stories.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/nadal-mailk-hasan-suspected-fort-hood-shooter-psychiatrist/story?id=9010466

Hasan, born in Virginia, was single with no children. The Austin American-Statesman reported his parents were originally from Jordan.

Nader Hasan, his cousin, told ABC News Maj. Hasan had two brothers, one in the United States, the other in Jerusalem. His parents, said Nader, have passed away. The cousin described him as a pious lifelong Muslim.

[Vessol]

It was not racist at all. Islam is a religion who's bible the Koran tells its followers to kill in the name of god. Seeing a Muslim killing in the name of god, and calling it like I see it does not make me a racist.

This is a matter of religious preference not race.

You've obviously never read the Old Testament.

[Liberty Star]

Those were isolated cases far and few between. Islam is a violent religion that's further exacerbated by the poverty and autocratic dimension of the region. The Koran explicitly says that assimilation or death are the only two options for the infidels. With that said, I don't want to spill american blood and treasure fighting an over-exaggerated threat. The violent muslims are low on the priority list.

If billion plus Islamic followers were focussed on violence and building WMDs instead of going to their mosques and prayers, they would be logically the boggest killers in recent centurues. Does data on bloodshed support that i.e., followers of which religion have killed most civilians in last 100 years?

The way I see it, we're mostly fighting radical groups in places like Afghanistan/holy land/Iraq we had groomed in the recent past for our other projects or people who do not like other countries militaries occupying them or dropping bombs on them.

[Dr.3D]

You've obviously never read the Old Testament.
It's a good thing Christians don't follow all of the laws of the Old Testament.

[Liberty Star]

It's a good thing Christians don't follow all of the laws of the Old Testament.

Neither are Christians at root of modern wars and bloodshed. History of holy land violence that seems to be at the center of recent wars cannot be blamed on Christianity.

[AuH20]

If billion plus Islamic followers were focussed on violence instead of going their mosques and prayers, they would be logically the boggest killers in recent centurues. Does data on bloodshed support that? Followers of which religion have killed most civilians in last 100 years?

The way I see it, we're mostly fighting radical groups in places like Afghanistan/holy land/Iraq we had groomed in the recent past for our other projects or people who do not like other countries militaries occupying them or dropping bombs on them.

They've never had the organization, resources or technology to kill mass numbers of infidels. Name one arabic superpower. Secondly, you're completely overlooking the siege of Eastern Europe that occurred in the 16th century by the Ottoman Empire. The Balkans to this day is still a powderkeg because of this event.


The way I see it, we're mostly fighting radical groups in places like Afghanistan/holy land/Iraq we had groomed in the recent past for our other projects or people who do not like other countries militaries occupying them or dropping bombs on them.

That's a partial explanation. The blood feud goes back much further than this decade.

[raiha]

Yes, unfortunately, in the OT, God comes over somewhat like a psychopathic, vengeful, megalomaniac. I'm sure He isn't though. Just comes across that way at times. Kind of puts you off the Bible i must say.
You just don't ever see tht kind of thing in non-theistic religions. The Pali Canon is full of the consequences of even violent thoughts let alone violent speech and actions. The idea of purification of body speech and mind and cultivating kindness to all sentient beings seems to make more sense somehow. Sure as hell beats smiting people with boils and turning them into pillars of ash. Even the innocent fig tree gets withered!What did that fig tree ever do to anyone except produce figs, give shade and provide a pissing post for dogs...I ask you?

[Vessol]

It's a good thing Muslims don't follow all of the laws of the Koran.

fix't


Neither are Christians at root of modern wars and bloodshed. History of holy land violence that seems to be at the center of recent wars cannot be blamed on Christianity.

Yes, only the Muslims are behind it. I like sticking my head in the sand too, it's a fun game.

[Uriel999]

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/members/vertigo+paris/albums/misc+pics-36/thread-derail-1953.jpg

Can we get the thread back on track now please?

[phill4paul]

Yes, unfortunately, in the OT, God comes over somewhat like a psychopathic, vengeful, megalomaniac. I'm sure He isn't though.

Maybe he just needed a good therapist? :D j/k

[TruckinMike]

It would be hard to see brother Christians being slaughtered without turning to violence... even with Matthew 5:38. It would be even more difficult if you were a Muslim. Being a PTSD therapist and hearing stories of the violence against, what your perceive to be as "your" people, could have a debilitating effect on your sanity.

Maybe it did.

TMike

[Vessol]

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/members/vertigo+paris/albums/misc+pics-36/thread-derail-1953.jpg

Can we get the thread back on track now please?

No. Muslims are bad and this news story is clear evidence that they all are bad.

[Liberty Star]

They've never had the organization, resources or technology to kill mass numbers of infidels. Name one arabic superpower. Secondly, you're completely overlooking the siege of Eastern Europe that occurred in the 16th century by the Ottoman Empire. The Balkans to this day is still a powderkeg because of this event.


That's a partial explanation. The blood feud goes back much further than this decade.


I guess that's a good reason for not answering above question LOL

I don't believe any significant violence in world today is rooted in 16th century events, it's mostly rooted in current events. It can be logically argued that we won't be in any of the current wars if we had not groomed Aghan Jihadis and foreign fighters to wage a war on our behalf ( people of the book united) against the Communists ( the the other "infidels" for muslims and christians in 80s) and Israel stealing arab land to settle 1st or 2nd century medieval scores.

There would still be violnce in the world but it never ends well when we feed the snakes as we have been doing in recent decades.

[AuH20]

I don't believe any significant violence in world today is rooted in 16th century events,

The genocide that occurred in Bosnia-Hercevogonia goes back a few centuries. You're wrong.

[Vessol]

The genocide in occured in Bosnia-Hercevogonia goes back a few centuries. You're wrong.

True.

History is one long chain of interconnected causes and reactions.

[AuH20]

True.

History is one long chain of interconnected causes and reactions.

Generational cycle of hate. You kill my family and I vow revenge. rinse and repeat.

[pcosmar]

Can we get the thread back on track now please?

Doubts,
Just lots of speculation. and me too. ;)

I would still like to know who his target was, and why. Who were his accomplices were.

and meanwhile
"Healtcare" is on it's way
Senate Democrats Advance Climate Bill Without GOP
The economy stinks.
and we are screwing around with Pakistan, and they have "nukes."

Just another fun day. :(

[Liberty Star]

The genocide in occured in Bosnia-Hercevogonia goes back a few centuries. You're wrong.

I should have been more specific, I meant any of the significant violence/wars we are currenty dealing with or engaged in.

If you can argue that modern blowbacks are from events that took place in 16th century and not related to present/recent events, I would be interested in hearing that argument.

[Vessol]

The Balkans are far from violence free.

And the current mess in the Middle East goes back many years to our own meddling there with Israel.

[devil21]

Wrong? oh so now the terrorist is the victim? What part of the fact that a Muslim terrorist just went on another killing rampaige shooting over 40 people did you miss?

If you're also going to admit that every other person that goes on a shooting spree due to mental health issues is a "terrorist", "Christian terrorist", "Atheist Terrorist", "Catholic terrorist", then your terminology is fine with me. However I don't think that's what you're insinuating.



How have we become so brainwashed and polarized to make the terrorists out to be the victims? Are you kidding me?

In cases like these, EVERYONE INVOLVED is a victim in some form. The people that snap, snap for a reason and you just have to look at the histories to see that there is always a past of abuse, torment, etc that eventually leads to that snap. You live in a very black and white world. Mine is more about shades of grays.



You think Hasan would get away with making gest of soldiers getting shot at Little Rock to his fellow officers?

No idea what you're talking about here. Sounds like a complete hypothetical strawman argument though...



You think he would get away with claimging Muslims had a right to rise up and attack Americans and Iraq and Afganistan without being harrased by his pears who are on the front lines in war against the terror being unleashed by Muslims in order that the world can be taken over by the religion they are brainwashed with?

That's a strawman. You just made that up. He was a US MILITARY SOLDIER HIMSELF! It's a shame you can't see past his name to recognize that. I disagree with US foreign policy myself. Am I a terrorist to you?

I think what has happened is pretty clear, for those that are not blinded by their hatred for all people of dark skin with non-Anglo names. A man, an AMERICAN, served his country in the military and due to the events of 9/11 has been subject to a LOT of abuse and torment at the hands of his "brothers". Like 99% of shooting sprees, he snapped from the abuse and went out in a blaze against those that tormented him. I don't condone how he responded to the abuse at all but Im not surprised. Im actually kinda surprised it hasn't happened sooner. It also makes me think that the military needs to get its own house in order before it worries about other countries. Don't you agree? Such treatment should never be allowed because the end result is always bad.

You can go on railing about how he's a terrorist or whatever but I think it's clear that the guy just snapped from years of abuse from the other soldiers. It's really the only plausible scenario without getting tinfoily about the CIA or whatever. The media lines about him disagreeing with US foreign policy is an old trick designed to deflect the real cause of his episode and just make him look like another "crazy" that just hates America. Judging by his response I think he just hated other soldiers that thought it was funny to abuse him over his name and religion. The scary part is that this is what happens when you brainwash military people into not caring about who they are dealing with. Even their fellow soldiers are enemies to them, all because of 9/11.

Granted Im doing some reading into what happened but on a personal level it's the only scenario that makes any real sense.

[Uriel999]

Doubts,
Just lots of speculation. and me too. ;)

I would still like to know who his target was, and why. Who were his accomplices were.

and meanwhile
"Healtcare" is on it's way
Senate Democrats Advance Climate Bill Without GOP
The economy stinks.
and we are screwing around with Pakistan, and they have "nukes."

Just another fun day. :(

Yup and I got some speculation right now. The tinfoil makes me question this event with gusto. Especially how it went from 2 shooters to 3 shooters to just 1 shooter.

[Dieseler]

Well your always going to get those pesky preliminary reports.

[AuH20]

The Balkans are far from violence free.

And the current mess in the Middle East goes back many years to our own meddling there with Israel.

Worst idea ever trying to resettle the jews after an extended absence. Secondly, who knows if they are the authentic jews? :D;)

[pcosmar]

Yup and I got some speculation right now. The tinfoil makes me question this event with gusto. Especially how it went from 2 shooters to 3 shooters to just 1 shooter.

Things in it just smell funny,
especially with the time he had in service(since 1997) and time spent in "spook central" Bethesda Ma.
This is not your average nut.

[Dieseler]

Worst idea ever trying to resettle the jews after an extended absence. Secondly, who knows if they are the authentic jews? :D;)

Yeah the same people that took over our Government in 1913 come up with all of the crap that lead to that bright idea as well.
They tricked us into funding it as well.
To this day even.
Still funding it and carrying out their thug business around that very same neighborhood.
We are lackeys.
Chumps and lackeys.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Things in it just smell funny,
especially with the time he had in service(since 1997) and time spent in "spook central" Bethesda Ma.
This is not your average nut.

The military medical school is in Bethesda, and most of the spooks are around the Potomac and DC area.

-t

[Liberty Star]

Those were isolated cases far and few between. Islam is a violent religion that's further exacerbated by the poverty and autocratic dimension of the region.


Because this ignorance is so widespread among our masses thanks to our TV news media, this should be broken down.

Group that invented airplane hijacking and hijacked/blew up various Israeli/Europen planes in 70s was resposnible only for "isolated incidences"?

If your arguments is valid, why Israel felt so threatened by these secular groups of Palestian muslims/christians like PLFP/PLO that it created Islamist group Hamas in holy land to create counter to the secular anti occupation groups?

We can't wake up Reagan now to ask why he sent radical jiahdi literature to Afghan and Russian territories but it is clear that he did not see these radicals as any real violent threat but more like fellow believers fighting against commie infidels.

I want to argue that followers of Islam in the world today per capita are more peaceful than any other major religion today just to make a point here. I want to see evidence that negates that claim.

[pcosmar]

http://www.usuhs.mil/medschool/fehsom.html

The F. Edward Hébert School of Medicine has a year-round, four-year curriculum. This curriculum is nearly 700 hours longer than found at other U.S. medical schools. These extra hours focus on epidemiology, health promotion, disease prevention, tropical medicine, leadership and field exercises, and other subjects that relate to the unique requirements of career-oriented military physicians. Of the 3,912 physician alumni, over 75 percent currently serve on active duty in the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force and U.S. Public Health Service.

Doctoral and masters degrees in the biomedical sciences and public health are awarded by interdisciplinary and department-based graduate programs within the School of Medicine. Program strengths include infectious disease, neuroscience, psychology and preventive medicine research. A large number of graduates are military officers and/or serve the federal biomedical research enterprise.

The whole town is DOD /Govt. Intelligence Central.

[klamath]

If you're also going to admit that every other person that goes on a shooting spree due to mental health issues is a "terrorist", "Christian terrorist", "Atheist Terrorist", "Catholic terrorist", then your terminology is fine with me. However I don't think that's what you're insinuating.



In cases like these, EVERYONE INVOLVED is a victim in some form. The people that snap, snap for a reason and you just have to look at the histories to see that there is always a past of abuse, torment, etc that eventually leads to that snap. You live in a very black and white world. Mine is more about shades of grays.



No idea what you're talking about here. Sounds like a complete hypothetical strawman argument though...



That's a strawman. You just made that up. He was a US MILITARY SOLDIER HIMSELF! It's a shame you can't see past his name to recognize that. I disagree with US foreign policy myself. Am I a terrorist to you?

I think what has happened is pretty clear, for those that are not blinded by their hatred for all people of dark skin with non-Anglo names. A man, an AMERICAN, served his country in the military and due to the events of 9/11 has been subject to a LOT of abuse and torment at the hands of his "brothers". Like 99% of shooting sprees, he snapped from the abuse and went out in a blaze against those that tormented him. I don't condone how he responded to the abuse at all but Im not surprised. Im actually kinda surprised it hasn't happened sooner. It also makes me think that the military needs to get its own house in order before it worries about other countries. Don't you agree? Such treatment should never be allowed because the end result is always bad.

You can go on railing about how he's a terrorist or whatever but I think it's clear that the guy just snapped from years of abuse from the other soldiers. It's really the only plausible scenario without getting tinfoily about the CIA or whatever. The media lines about him disagreeing with US foreign policy is an old trick designed to deflect the real cause of his episode and just make him look like another "crazy" that just hates America. Judging by his response I think he just hated other soldiers that thought it was funny to abuse him over his name and religion. The scary part is that this is what happens when you brainwash military people into not caring about who they are dealing with. Even their fellow soldiers are enemies to them, all because of 9/11.

Granted Im doing some reading into what happened but on a personal level it's the only scenario that makes any real sense.

And you are making an awful lot of assumtions yourself. Jags is trying to slam all muslims and you are bending over backward trying to make any excuses for this guy and blame everyone else with no proof.
If you haven't been in the military you don't realize that guys give their fellow soldiers "Shit" no matter what, who or when. Most of it is in jest and you learn to roll with the punches and laugh it off and hand it back.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Shooter not dead


no doubt...the comments there were horrifying. I must be really insultated as I have never witnessed such vile hate towards strangers.

never doubt that there is a small army of trolls whose paid position is to plant poisonous seeds.

Kinda like the old media repeating the word "suspect" repeatedly...



It does feel like the general hostility level is up all over these boards.
...

natural, probably chemical, reaction...

IMO - The Major had seen too much, and snapped.

I wonder that the dirtiest secret amongst the neo-cons is the mounting suicide rates among our troops.

We all know these issues will dwindle as we win the r3VOLution.

Do more.


shrinks are required to do the therapy before they can become shrinks. And just so you know, every last human on earth needs therapy. No exceptions. The difference is some people find it easier to operate in the world than others do.

I think everyone just needs a ((((((hug))))))

:(

[Civilradiant_palm_pre]

only one shooter, he is not dead, no cop was killed

[Dieseler]

Damn, they're changing the entire story now.

[BlackTerrel]

Gee - a bill to extend and expand DHS just started in the house and the senate is talking about trying and jailing "terrorists" in the US while there is a hearing about what is considered "torture" in one of the committees...

WHATTA coincidence? - It's amazing how these incidents correspond to the Congressional calender so often...

I'm not one for tin foil hats - but there has been a pattern going on for a WHILE where every single time Congress takes up these type of issues - something bad happens.

Well, that and have to have something to bump the tea party from the lead story....

:rolleyes:

-t

There is always SOMETHING going on. There isn't a day on the calendar where this couldn't happen and the conspiracy theorists wouldn't say the timing was convenient.

[devil21]

And you are making an awful lot of assumtions yourself. Jags is trying to slam all muslims and you are bending over backward trying to make any excuses for this guy and blame everyone else with no proof.
If you haven't been in the military you don't realize that guys give their fellow soldiers "Shit" no matter what, who or when. Most of it is in jest and you learn to roll with the punches and laugh it off and hand it back.

I think we can agree that such abuse toward a muslim soldier is not of the same sort of "playful soldier banter" that you are alluding to, given what these soldiers are trained to deal with these days. Picking on the black guy is far different than a guy that is the same religion, same style name, and same physical description as the people you're busy trying to waterboard or kill.

I indeed admitted earlier in the thread that Im reading into things somewhat but a rational mind can narrow this episode down to only a couple possibilities. Sorry but anyone that thinks this guy is a closet Al Qaeda operative or whatever is an idiot.

Now that it appears he is alive after all, it will be interesting to see what happens.

[BlackTerrel]

I am very disturbed by this. A lone gunman could easily be someone going off the deep end, you know, cheese slipping off his cracker. But three soldiers? Coordinated? Something is very amiss here. This does not 'smell' like someone goes nuts and goes out to kill random people. I can imagine about a dozen possibilities, none of them good. Toughts and prayers for everybody involved, and especially prayers that we learn the real truth of what is going on here.

Ditto. I have a cousin there... luckily I spoke with the family and he is ok. My prayers are with the families of those less fortunate.

[Civilradiant_palm_pre]

this was basically another school shooting from a guy that was harassed to the breaking point.

[AuH20]

Because this ignorance is so widespread among our masses thanks to our TV news media, this should be broken down.

Group that invented airplane hijacking and hijacked/blew up various Israeli/Europen planes in 70s was resposnible only for "isolated incidences"?

If your arguments is valid, why Israel felt so threatened by these secular groups of Palestian muslims/christians like PLFP/PLO that it created Islamist group Hamas in holy land to create counter to the secular anti occupation groups?

We can't wake up Reagan now to ask why he sent radical jiahdi literature to Afghan and Russian territories but it is clear that he did not see these radicals as any real violent threat but more like fellow believers fighting against commie infidels.

I want to argue that followers of Islam in the world today per capita are more peaceful than any other major religion today just to make a point here. I want to see evidence that negates that claim.

First, let me state that I'm no apologist for the criminal activity of Israel (i.e. U.S.S. Liberty incident) or past abuses on the part of Christian empires. However, I vehemently disagree with your assertion that followers are Islam are more peaceful than their religious peers. Despite the shift towards political correctness, all cultures are not equal. The major problem for the Muslim community in that their development as a civilization was stunted thanks to technological imbalances and the lack of an ideological revolution (i.e. the Enlightenment period that transformed Europe). So we're essentially dealing with a culture very much trapped in another century of thought, thoroughly depressed with it's exploitation by interlopers. Such a downtrodden existence combined with a literal devotion to the Qu'Ran has made suicide bombing an acceptable form of religious 'expression.' I don't see Budhists or fundamental christians bombing marketplaces.

Since 9/11 there has been over 14,000 incidents committed worldwide by Muslims. Ultimately, as a global community we need to help Muslims rediscover their pride and discard these tactics. And most importantly, we need the zionists and their accomplices in our federal government to stop instigating wars of plunder where Muslims are used as scapegoats. It's a very complex problem no matter how you look at it.

[devil21]

this was basically another school shooting from a guy that was harassed to the breaking point.

If it's truly not a CIA-Mumbai style plot, then this is the only rational explanation I can come up with too.

Speaking of which, wasn't there one surviving shooter there too? Why would both this shooter and the last Mumbai shooter both be allowed to live?

[wizardwatson]

If he is alive, he's fucked. He's not even under the Constitution, he's under UCMJ. The military could make that guy spend the rest of his life in a dungeon made especially for him, but they will probably just kill him.

[klamath]

I think we can agree that such abuse toward a muslim soldier is not of the same sort of "playful soldier banter" that you are alluding to, given what these soldiers are trained to deal with these days. Picking on the black guy is far different than a guy that is the same religion, same style name, and same physical description as the people you're busy trying to waterboard or kill.

I indeed admitted earlier in the thread that Im reading into things somewhat but a rational mind can narrow this episode down to only a couple possibilities. Sorry but anyone that thinks this guy is a closet Al Qaeda operative or whatever is an idiot.

Now that it appears he is alive after all, it will be interesting to see what happens.
I didn't say anything about picking on the black guys. Everybody picks on everybody blacks, whites, asian jews, muslims, you name it. Sometime it is in mean spirit and vicious as anywhere else. If someone already has a tortured mind, they are the ones that snap. Compassionate and smart soldiers know that they back off with the jokes on these kinds of people. And despite what many people on these forums believe soldiers are not trained to just go kill muslims. The vast majority of the soldiers believe they are giving freedom to the muslims. You don't know how many times I've seen soldiers pose with and take pictures with muslim children and sent them home stating this is why we are here.

[BlackTerrel]

In cases like these, EVERYONE INVOLVED is a victim in some form. The people that snap, snap for a reason and you just have to look at the histories to see that there is always a past of abuse, torment, etc that eventually leads to that snap. You live in a very black and white world. Mine is more about shades of grays.

Fuck shades of gray. Can I say that this guy who shot his fellow soldiers is a piece of shit and I hope he burns in hell? Or is that not delicate enough?

[Liberty Rebellion]

What's up with people from Virginia Tech shooting people up?

http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/225202

Isn't there a CIA or DARPA base near there that recruits from the students?

[raiha]

These people (psychiatrists, counsellors) can be vicariously traumatized by all the horrible confessions and reports they hear day in day out. I suspect it is as simple as that and a sense of mortification at man's inhumanity to man which somehwo gets twisted.

The number of atrocities of people with PTSD towards their families, etc is proof enough that a human being can only take so much. It is natural that the man feels a kinship with those being invaded, killed,tortured etc...What i can't understand is if he felt so strongly about Iraq and Afghanistan, WTF was he doing in the army?