Young Socialists Out of the Closet

[Theocrat]

I have been appalled by something which I've seen at my local university. There are signs advertising a "Student Socialists Club" open for all people to attend and join. The signs even advocate that we need "Socialism Now!" How things have changed for our present times that even our upcoming generation has been (academically speaking) indoctrinated to be proud of socialism, in a manner that would make Karl Marx grin with pride today.

Have any of you noticed that sort of club being advertised at your local universities/colleges? It seems to me this has gone viral, and viral in an infectious and sickening way.

[MRoCkEd]

That's messed up...

[angelatc]

How things have changed for our present times that even our upcoming generation has been (academically speaking) indoctrinated to be proud of socialism, in a manner that would make Karl Marx grin with pride today.

.

No kidding. 20 years ago I never believed I'd see people openly defending socialism. Or bashing Christians to the extent they do now, either.

I am glad I'm not any younger than I am, but sometimes I wish I were older. I'm already tired of fighting, and I don't want to see my country gutted any more.

[Danke]

Tell them to give it up and become a Democrat:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_t3LcdzrgRaw/SoL_o7TvxxI/AAAAAAAAABQ/cltYxsm5ZQw/S1600-R/socialist.bmp

http://pal2pal.com/BLOGEE/images/uploads/sotomayor_nassauherald_2-thumb-550x279-5311.jpg

[Goldhunter27]

I have been appalled by something which I've seen at my local university. There are signs advertising a "Student Socialists Club" open for all people to attend and join. The signs even advocate that we need "Socialism Now!" How things have changed for our present times that even our upcoming generation has been (academically speaking) indoctrinated to be proud of socialism, in a manner that would make Karl Marx grin with pride today.

Have any of you noticed that sort of club being advertised at your local universities/colleges? It seems to me this has gone viral, and viral in an infectious and sickening way.


Start your own club. Offer free cookies and coffee. College kids love free food and coffee.

[Theocrat]

Start your own club. Offer free cookies and coffee. College kids love free food and coffee.

I'm no longer a student at that university (thanks be to God). However, as a local member of my county Constitution Party, we are diligently working to get a Young Constitutionalists Club on the campus (provided we find a faculty sponsor).

[haaaylee]

Start your own club. Offer free cookies and coffee. College kids love free food and coffee.


Especially Socialist college kids. Anything that is free would work. I suggest beer.

[Freedom 4 all]

Lol, not only are socialists out of the closet, they are slowly stuffing conservatives IN. The Association of International Socialists is HUGE at my univerity. A candidate for student body president of one faculty even put "A true commie" on his campaign posters without irony. It seems every week there is a new seminar like "What's Wrong with CAPITALI$$M?" or "Why Capitalism kills the environment" or "Why war is a direct result of Capitalism" and stuff like that. I have yet to see any kind of counter to these and I've been there 3 years so far.

[YumYum]

I have been appalled by something which I've seen at my local university. There are signs advertising a "Student Socialists Club" open for all people to attend and join. The signs even advocate that we need "Socialism Now!" How things have changed for our present times that even our upcoming generation has been (academically speaking) indoctrinated to be proud of socialism, in a manner that would make Karl Marx grin with pride today.

Have any of you noticed that sort of club being advertised at your local universities/colleges? It seems to me this has gone viral, and viral in an infectious and sickening way.

So what? That is what Liberty and Freedom are all about; an exchanging of ideas. These clubs are a backlash from the evangelical/capital corportism/democracy/empire nation building Bush years. Kids are scared shitless about going to war and they think socialism is the avenue to prevent that. The pendelum swings both ways. I am going with my atheist cousin to a "Freethinkers" seminar later this month which is supported by college students. We get to watch Creationists duke it out with Evolutionists. It should be fun.

[boethius27]

That Sotomayor picture juxtaposition is insane. Gross.

[ClayTrainor]

Socialism is a very popular concept that I find myself encountering nearly everywhere i go. These people are just confused for the most part, and buy into some good advertising / propaganda, with some help from the public school and Federal secondary education loan systems.

Michael Moore just made an anti-capitalism movie, which pretty much makes him an admitted socialist. Expect it to get worse, but at the same time, socialist logic is easy to corner with the socratic method and we will win this intellectual battle if we remain vigilant and humble in our approach.

When you encounter a self-proclaimed socialist, stay kind in your approach, ask them the right questions based on natural law and rights. If they are intellectually honest, you can lead them in the right direction with proper questioning, If they are not, do not waste your time, and move on. Many people who fall victim to socialist propaganda can still be converted to liberty, for sure. The key is to question them, and let them figure it out for themselves. They tend to reject the "I'm right, you're wrong", type of argument, even if you are 100% right.


:)

[Theocrat]

If we believe in liberty, we believe the freedom for them to express their political beliefs, at least they are politically active, I would rather have some open discussion coming from socialists then sheep herding from the two major parties.


So what? That is what Liberty and Freedom are all about; an exchanging of ideas. These clubs are a backlash from the evangelical/capital corportism/democracy/empire nation building Bush years. Kids are scared shitless about going to war and they think socialism is the avenue to prevent that. The pendelum swings both ways. I am going with my atheist cousin to a "Freethinkers" seminar later this month which is supported by college students. We get to watch Creationists duke it out with Evolutionists. It should be fun.

Lest I be mistaken, I generally support freedom of expression, provided it's qualified. There are some forms of expression which can be immoral, seditious, or even blasphemous which I would not justify by appealing to "freedom of expression." We live in a country which was made great by certain ideals, and when there are people who seek to undermine those ideals by the public expression and even enforcement against them, it is my conviction that it needs to be exposed and corrected. Socialism is evil, and it's evil by reason of its core principles that men do not have a right to private property and the liberty to do what they want with that private property, as a blessing from God.

So, no, I do not agree with them having a Student Socialists Club anymore than I would agree with a student organization for the advancement of pedophilia. In my eyes, they are both immoral ideas (howbeit immoral on different grounds). It is sickening that human minds have been poisoned to believe that socialism is good for everyone, and that upon our younger generation.

[SWATH]

They are passing out literature and looking for recruits on Harvard's campus as well.

[YumYum]

Lest I be mistaken, I generally support freedom of expression, provided it's qualified. There are some forms of expression which can be immoral, seditious, or even blasphemous which I would not justify by appealing to "freedom of expression." We live in a country which was made great by certain ideals, and when there are people who seek to undermine those ideals by the public expression and even enforcement against them, it is my conviction that it needs to be exposed and corrected. Socialism is evil, and it's evil by reason of its core principles that men do not have a right to private property and the liberty to do what they want with that private property, as a blessing from God.

So, no, I do not agree with them having a Student Socialists Club anymore than I would agree with a student organization for the advancement of pedophilia. In my eyes, they are both immoral ideas (howbeit immoral on different grounds). It is sickening that human minds have been poisoned to believe that socialism is good for everyone, and that upon our younger generation.

So would you be in favor of Evangelical Fudamentalists Christian Clubs on a college campus?

[NYgs23]

The only way they can promote their fallacies is by pretending that what we have today is the same thing as a free market. What we have today is antithetical to true economic freedom as promoted by libertarians and classical liberals, but these people disingenuously stuff it all under the vague and confusing label, "capitalism." Then they complain when other folks compare Swedish-style socialism to Stalin's Russia. Found your own club and promote actual economic freedom. Pro-freedom ideals are spreading; state-enforced socialism and all other aggression-based ideals are bound to failure.

[Vessol]

I'll go against the grain and say that someone has the right to be a socialist just as much as we have the right to be Libertarians and have our own clubs and they have their own clubs. It may be an idealogy I disagree with, but I believe they have a right to it. You or I have no right to forcefully correct them.


So would you be in favor of Evangelical Fudamentalists Christian Clubs on a college campus?

And this. Pot meet kettle.

[Deborah K]

Infiltrate. And bring it down from the inside. Get a bunch of your friends and infiltrate it.

[legion]

Infiltrate. And bring it down from the inside. Get a bunch of your friends and infiltrate it.

Are you seriously suggesting this?

[Deborah K]

Are you seriously suggesting this?

Yes. Theo should join with his friends and work to change the hearts and minds of these misled, misguided young people.

[Vessol]

I'm disappointed. I thought there were fellow liberty lovers here. Not partisan "You're wrong, I'm right!"

[Deborah K]

So what? That is what Liberty and Freedom are all about; an exchanging of ideas. These clubs are a backlash from the evangelical/capital corportism/democracy/empire nation building Bush years. Kids are scared shitless about going to war and they think socialism is the avenue to prevent that. The pendelum swings both ways. I am going with my atheist cousin to a "Freethinkers" seminar later this month which is supported by college students. We get to watch Creationists duke it out with Evolutionists. It should be fun.

Bunk. These kids are the result of the deliberate dumbing down of America agenda that took hold at the beginning of the progressive era.

[Deborah K]

I'm disappointed. I thought there were fellow liberty lovers here. Not partisan "You're wrong, I'm right!"

Vessol, socialism is thine enemy, whether you know it or not. It is no friend of liberty, it is the friend of tyranny.

[Vessol]

Even if they are delusional in their beliefs, it is not our right to change them. Liberty is for everyone, not only certain people with certain politically beliefs.

Let them have their political beliefs. If you think they threaten your game in getting more people to your side, compete with them. If your side has more logic, you are bound to win.

[Vessol]

Vessol, socialism is thine enemy, whether you know it or not. It is no friend of liberty, it is the friend of tyranny.

Thank you McCarthy.

Liberty is for everyone, not just people in your political spectrum.

This is why I can't fucking stand partisan politics. You people are on all sides of the spectrums.

Why can't you just stand up, maybe propose a debate with them or talk to them rationally instead of "infiltrating them" and being outraged on the internet and ranting about how evil it is. You people are the tools used by politicians to divide us and bring true tyranny.

Why don't we start doing some citizens arrests and outlaw socialist beliefs. Afterall, it is our enemy and is "evil".

[Deborah K]

Even if they are delusional in their beliefs, it is not our right to change them. Liberty is for everyone, not only certain people with certain politically beliefs.



Says who?


Let them have their political beliefs. If you think they threaten your game in getting more people to your side, compete with them. If your side has more logic, you are bound to win

Why not do both?

[Vessol]

So you believe you have the right to force someone to believe something?

[AutoDas]

^who said anything about force?

except for you

[Deborah K]

Thank you McCarthy.

Liberty is for everyone, not just people in your political spectrum.

This is why I can't fucking stand partisan politics. You people are on all sides of the spectrums.

Why can't you just stand up, maybe propose a debate with them or talk to them rationally instead of "infiltrating them" and being outraged on the internet and ranting about how evil it is. You people are the tools used by politicians to divide us and bring true tyranny.

Why don't we start doing some citizens arrests and outlaw socialist beliefs. Afterall, it is our enemy and is "evil".

You're overreacting. McCarthy used political force. I'm talking about using subtle tactics that don't involve force.

First of all, I am a registered non-partisan and have been since Perot ran. Second of all, you do realize that socialism is collectivism and collectivism can only be achieved at the expense of personal freedom. It goes completely against what this country stands for and what it was founded on.

These kids are misguided and it's up to the rest of us to try and get them on track.

Do you feel as easy about Neo-Nazis, etc. as you do about socialists?

[Vessol]

^who said anything about force?

If we have to do something as dishonest as "infiltrating them" it's just as morally wrong as forcing someone to believe what I believe in.

If you disagree with someone, be honest and candor and discuss with them rationally about your issues and theirs.

[Dieseler]

Get back in your closet young socialists.
Old socialist to.

[Vessol]

I think they should be allowed to have their Socialist clubs if we are allowed to have our Libertarian clubs. I know I love my local Campaign of Liberty chapter.

If you disagree with them, propose to host a debate or something. Go up to a leader of one of them and ask them if they would like to get a cup of coffee and have a discussion of their beliefs and yours.

Stop biching about how bad the youth has became and how degenerate it has become and how evil socialism is on an internet board, and go out and actually do something instead of just bitching on a board. I know I have talked to and slowly brought many people close to me from their views of positive for big government to highly negative.

Diplomacy ALWAYS wins. And it is our ONLY chance if we are to win against the pushers for large government and restriction of individual rights.

[Deborah K]

If we have to do something as dishonest as "infiltrating them" it's just as morally wrong as forcing someone to believe what I believe in.

If you disagree with someone, be honest and candor and discuss with them rationally about your issues and theirs.

There is a war of ideologies going on in case you haven't noticed. Infiltrating is what the other side has been doing for decades quite successfully. It's time to turn their tactics on them. Ever heard of Saul Alinsky?

[sevin]

Start your own club. Offer free cookies and coffee. College kids love free food and coffee.

Also offer a free hat.

[Deborah K]

I think they should be allowed to have their Socialist clubs if we are allowed to have our Libertarian clubs. I know I love my local Campaign of Liberty chapter.

If you disagree with them, propose to host a debate or something. Go up to a leader of one of them and ask them if they would like to get a cup of coffee and have a discussion of their beliefs and yours.

Stop biching about how bad the youth has became and how degenerate it has become and how evil socialism is on an internet board, and go out and actually do something instead of just bitching on a board. I know I have talked to and slowly brought many people close to me from their views of positive for big government to highly negative.

Diplomacy ALWAYS wins.

Vessol, take a chill pill.

[YumYum]

I think they should be allowed to have their Socialist clubs if we are allowed to have our Libertarian clubs. I know I love my local Campaign of Liberty chapter.

I agree, and if we stop treating them like they are infected with the plague we could have some awesome interchange. Again, the best example we have of a Free Market, non-centralist government intervention is Afghanistan. Does anybody on this forum like Afghanistan? I saw a documentry where in Afghanistan a father traded his goat to pay for his daughter's doctor visit. Free, uninteruppted capitalism at its best.:D

[Deborah K]

I agree, and if we stop treating them like they are infected with the plague we could have some awesome interchange.

Examples please?

[AutoDas]

I agree, and if we stop treating them like they are infected with the plague we could have some awesome interchange. Again, the best example we have of a Free Market, non-centralist government intervention is Afghanistan. Does anybody on this forum like Afghanistan? I saw a documentry where in Afghanistan a father traded his goat to pay for his daughter's doctor visit. Free, uninteruppted capitalism at its best.:D

um what does afghanistan have to do with this? are you just being racist?

[Vessol]

There is a war of ideologies going on in case you haven't noticed. Infiltrating is what the other side has been doing for decades quite successfully. It's time to turn their tactics on them. Ever heard of Saul Alinsky?

You put a fire out with water, not by throwing more gasoline on it.


Vessol, take a chill pill.

Just avoid my whole point. I keep on seeing this movement turn into another partisan faction that will push towards real tyranny.

Is it that outrageous to talk to those we don't agree with calmly and diplomatically? To find a common ground and to expand on it? Is that not how we gain new supporters?

[Deborah K]

You put a fire out with water, not by throwing more gasoline on it.

Infiltration is pouring gas on a fire?

[Deborah K]

Just avoid my whole point. I keep on seeing this movement turn into another partisan faction that will push towards real tyranny.

Is it that outrageous to talk to those we don't agree with calmly and diplomatically? To find a common ground and to expand on it? Is that not how we gain new supporters?

I already said why not do both? There is nothing partisan about wanting to fight socialism. Geeez.....

[Vessol]

I already said why not do both? There is nothing partisan about wanting to fight socialism. Geeez.....

You were the one who said we should "infiltrate them".

[Deborah K]

You were the one who said we should "infiltrate them".

And then......you made your suggestion......and then....I suggested.... why not do both? :confused:

[YumYum]

Examples please?


: “Socialism is evil,”

: “So, no, I do not agree with them having a Student Socialists Club anymore than I would agree with a student organization for the advancement of pedophilia.”

: “Bunk. These kids are the result of the deliberate dumbing down of America agenda that took hold at the beginning of the progressive era.”

: “Vessol, socialism is thine enemy, whether you know it or not. It is no friend of liberty, it is the friend of tyranny.”


: “Do you feel as easy about Neo-Nazis, etc. as you do about socialists?”

Do you think a confused kid with any intelligence would follow someone who is this fanatical?

YumYum--who believes in the Libertarian motto "I don't give a shit what you do, just leave me the fuck alone!"

[Deborah K]

: “Socialism is evil,”

: “So, no, I do not agree with them having a Student Socialists Club anymore than I would agree with a student organization for the advancement of pedophilia.”

: “Bunk. These kids are the result of the deliberate dumbing down of America agenda that took hold at the beginning of the progressive era.”

: “Vessol, socialism is thine enemy, whether you know it or not. It is no friend of liberty, it is the friend of tyranny.”


: “Do you feel as easy about Neo-Nazis, etc. as you do about socialists?”

Do you think a confused kid with any intelligence would follow someone who is this fanatical?

YumYum--who believes in the Libertarian motto "I don't give a shit what you do, just leave me the fuck alone!"

And what shall you do when they come after you? Will it be too late for you because you refused to take a stand?

[YumYum]

um what does afghanistan have to do with this? are you just being racist?

No, Auto. I am just pointing out that with its tribal villages and no central governemt Afghanistan is a Free Market society.

[YumYum]

Infiltration is pouring gas on a fire?

Infiltration is pretending to be someone you are not. That is called deception, which is a form of lying, which goes against the teachings of Jesus. Its the same tatics that the Kremlin and Mossad have used. Are you saying we should be like the Kremlin?

[YumYum]

And what shall you do when they come after you? Will it be too late for you because you refused to take a stand?

When the socialists come after me I will be prepared. I will be wearing my Rambo belt with a bowie knife between my teeth and a copy of "Revolution" in one hand and a picture of Thomas Jefferson in the other.

[AutoDas]

No, Auto. I am just pointing out that with its tribal villages and no central governemt Afghanistan is a Free Market society.

why?

[angelatc]

I have been appalled by something which I've seen at my local university. There are signs advertising a "Student Socialists Club" open for all people to attend and join. The signs even advocate that we need "Socialism Now!" How things have changed for our present times that even our upcoming generation has been (academically speaking) indoctrinated to be proud of socialism, in a manner that would make Karl Marx grin with pride today.

Have any of you noticed that sort of club being advertised at your local universities/colleges? It seems to me this has gone viral, and viral in an infectious and sickening way.

You should get with BigGovernment.com and do an undercover expose.

[legion]

I don't think the suggestion to use intelligence tactics on misguided and confused college students is very responsible, Deborah K.

[Goldhunter27]

Here we come Socialists!

http://www.theirsecrets.info/militia.jpg

[YumYum]

why?

Because if we become a Free Market/anarcho-captalist/ no-government society in America we may mirror Afghanistan.

YumYum--who doesn't mind the goats, but is not too crazy about sleeping in a tent.

[AutoDas]

Because if we become a Free Market/anarcho-captalist/ no-government society in America we may mirror Afghanistan.

YumYum--who doesn't mind the goats, but is not too crazy about sleeping in a tent.

well you convinced me of a planned economy. I certainly hate goats.

[ClayTrainor]

The power to convert anyone intellectually honest to liberty stems from your ability to apply the Socratic Method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method), with Natural Law. Socialists and neo-cons alike can be converted by the socratic method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method), if they are willing to be honest with themselves. You can put the ball in their court using the socratic method, and you will see where your time is well spent based on the degree in which your opponent is honest with themselves. :)

The most important thing for this movement, in my opinion, is to understand the principles of Natural Law, Austrian Economics and how they apply to political views in all spectrums and how to use them to our maximum advantage. Once you have the ability to ask the right questions, and you stop getting cornered with your own assertions, you can truly have an influence on people.

Just my 2 cents, once, again. I'm trying to emphasize the importance of the Socratic Method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method), in terms of winning people over :)

[YumYum]

well you convinced me of a planned economy. I certainly hate goats.

Auto,

We have a deal then. The goats have to go and we will work together and have a planned economy.

regards,

YumYum (who has a doctor that will not accept a goat as a payment.)

[YumYum]

The power to convert anyone intellectually honest to liberty stems from your ability to apply the Socratic Method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method), with Natural Law. Socialists and neo-cons alike can be converted by the socratic method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method), if they are willing to be honest with themselves. You can put the ball in their court using the socratic method, and you will see where your time is well spent based on the degree in which your opponent is honest with themselves. :)

The most important thing for this movement, in my opinion, is to understand the principles of Natural Law, Austrian Economics and how they apply to political views in all spectrums and how to use them to our maximum advantage. Once you have the ability to ask the right questions, and you stop getting cornered with your own assertions, you can truly have an influence on people.

Just my 2 cents, once, again. I'm trying to emphasize the importance of the Socratic Method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method), in terms of winning people over :)

You kill more bees with honey.

YumYum (who is looking to join the Honey Party)

[Deborah K]

I don't think the suggestion to use intelligence tactics on misguided and confused college students is very responsible, Deborah K.

Please explain.

[Deborah K]

Infiltration is pretending to be someone you are not. That is called deception, which is a form of lying, which goes against the teachings of Jesus. Its the same tatics that the Kremlin and Mossad have used. Are you saying we should be like the Kremlin?

You could look at it that way, I suppose. But I don't. I see it this way: Suppose one of my kids gets involved in a cult that was preaching things that were immoral and dangerous to my child's health and well being. Do you think if I resorted to infiltrating to get my child back that I would be in the wrong?

Infiltrating a socialist group for the sole purpose of gathering information as well as disseminating information is a tactic that can be successful in halting its spread. I do NOT want to live in a socialistic country. We are in a war of idealogies at this time in our history. It is a mistake to allow the spread of socialism. That lackadaisical attitude did not serve the people of Germany well and it won't serve us either.

[WClint]

I have been appalled by something which I've seen at my local university. There are signs advertising a "Student Socialists Club" open for all people to attend and join. The signs even advocate that we need "Socialism Now!" How things have changed for our present times that even our upcoming generation has been (academically speaking) indoctrinated to be proud of socialism, in a manner that would make Karl Marx grin with pride today.

Have any of you noticed that sort of club being advertised at your local universities/colleges? It seems to me this has gone viral, and viral in an infectious and sickening way.
It is digusting but nothing new, universities have always been a cesspool for communists and other scum.

YouTube - Soviet Subversion of the Free World Press 8/9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTmbcyeZ9ic&feature=PlayList&p=A24726F7ABE1C759&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21)
YouTube - How Radical Professors Indoctrinate Students - David Horowitz (1 of 8) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3LE84SxTUI)

Is it any wonder that the Germans burned there books. It was an attempt to stop the spread of Marxism... while not the best solution.
YouTube - Dr. Goebbels Burns the Books (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF5kMVIolYw)

[Freedom 4 all]

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Voltaire

I'd rather not trample anyone's rights, even people I believe are wrong.

[Deborah K]

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Voltaire

I'd rather not trample anyone's rights, even people I believe are wrong.

Even if it includes an ideology that will usurp your individual freedom if it is allowed to spread through your government?

[Deborah K]

"It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees."

[legion]

"It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees."

Keep in mind you're talking about college students that see life and politics as some sort fantastic game. They don't really believe in anything, they just like the labels.

[Vessol]

Even if it includes an ideology that will usurp your individual freedom if it is allowed to spread through your government?

Slippery slope is slippery.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Slippery slope is slippery.

No slippery slope. It's not even questionable. Everyone has the right of free speech, period. We own our bodies, therefore we own what we produce and we own what we say. Politicians can get elected on these, but if they violate other's rights then that is when we rise up. Let them say what they want, I have my rifle here as a vanguard for my liberties.

I think it's about high-time for the black market to start up. What say ye?

[Imperial]

I don't see what the huge fuss is about.


"... intellectual honesty demands that, at least occasionally, we go out of our way to confront strong arguments opposed to our views. How else are we to protect ourselves from continuing error?" - Robert Nozick, preface to Anarchy, State, and Utopia

I tell you this. I'm GLAD they started the club. If more socialists were around we could have a real debate. Rather than the corporatism that we are infected with today.

It is pretty easy to argue for socialism. After all, it is a completely arbitrary standard to say how far a government may act or be restricted once you accept the premise it has the authority to tax and the authority to use violence. I am a minarchist and except my position is one that is a fairly arbitrary standard.

You simply argue if we spend taxes on defense spending or law enforcement why not extend rights of man to include basic human needs that in the past were earned. It is not irrational at all- indeed, their goals are noble.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I don't see what the huge fuss is about.



I tell you this. I'm GLAD they started the club. If more socialists were around we could have a real debate. Rather than the corporatism that we are infected with today.

It is pretty easy to argue for socialism. After all, it is a completely arbitrary standard to say how far a government may act or be restricted once you accept the premise it has the authority to tax and the authority to use violence. I am a minarchist and except my position is one that is a fairly arbitrary standard.

You simply argue if we spend taxes on defense spending or law enforcement why not extend rights of man to include basic human needs that in the past were earned. It is not irrational at all- indeed, their goals are noble.

The worst atrocities perpetrated on mankind have been from the noblest of goals.

Socialists are easy to destroy every argument they subscribe to. Bury your nose in some books, and you'll be knocking down everything they come at you with, with such intellectual veracity. One thing is for sure, if I was a billionaire I would litter the streets with Human Action. Socialists simply don't understand human nature, moral hazard, self-interests, fallacy of the commons, etc.

[Vessol]

Then knock down their views, don't bitch about how evil they are and how youth had degraded and how we need to infiltrate them. Be honest and fight their views with your views. Words to match words. Nothing else.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Then knock down their views, don't bitch about how evil they are and how youth had degraded and how we need to infiltrate them. Be honest and fight their views with your views. Words to match words. Nothing else.

If you noticed I haven't done any of those things that you just accosted me with. :p Perhaps a little reading examination is in order.

[Vessol]

If you noticed I haven't done any of those things that you just accosted me with. :p Perhaps a little reading examination is in order.

Wasn't talking to you. Mainly was addressing Theocrat(who's post always I find funny) and Debrah K. Not you mate.

[AutoDas]

^ king of the back pedal

[EndDaFed]

Even if it includes an ideology that will usurp your individual freedom if it is allowed to spread through your government?

Are you suggesting ending freedom of speech for people who have different "ideologies"? Surly you must not be.

[Andrew-Austin]

This whole thread is stupid. Not the OP, just the following discussions.

1. Its not exactly news that colleges are infected with socialists.
2. "Infiltrating", which I guess would amount to joining and then asking questions that point out how clueless they all are, is not some terrible/immoral/taboo act. Stop freaking out about nothing.
3. All the people in this thread who were offended by the idea of "infiltrating" socialist clubs, don't really take seriously, and would not act on their own recommendation of openly talking with socialists. Its just banter, you wouldn't actually try and debate a delusional group that outnumbered you.
4. Deborah is overreacting a bit. College socialists are only dangerous when they vote, and even then their not very scary. Considering the economic state this country is in, and the sheer intellectual bankruptcy of hardcore socialism/communism, the dreams of these little commie turds don't have much of a chance of coming true.

[TruckinMike]

Hand them an audio cd with Frederic' Bastiat's "The Law". Its one of my favorite tools of conversion -- "The Law" from freeaudio.org (http://www.freeaudio.org/fbastiat/thelaw.html)

Walter Williams had this to say about it...


Many philosophers have made important contributions to the discourse on liberty, Bastiat among them. But Bastiat's greatest contribution is that he took the discourse out of the ivory tower and made ideas on liberty so clear that even the unlettered can understand them and statists cannot obfuscate them. Clarity is crucial to persuading our fellowman of the moral superiority of personal liberty.

If those versed in Rousseau or Robespierre listen they might be a bit offended, but the argument is so strong and convincing that even a brainwashed state worshipping commie can't argue with Bastiat.

Make it a challenge -- Ask them to find the faults in Bastiats Arguments, bet them they can't. Have fun with it.


Norton has this site on their "site is safe" list.

And if you haven't read it or heard it, do it NOW! Its Great!

TMike

[Che]

at least they don't call themselves keynesians

[TER]

Students today, especially in the universities, are completely jaded with life given the mess they have inherited and the dim prospects ahead, and are searching for better ways, and we should respect them and help correct them. To enlighten them to liberty and respect for the individual, a child of God, who is made in the image of God Himself. After all, it is our generation (speaking on behalf of the greying population here in the Liberty Forest!) who have created this mess and need to correct it for them.

What they need is to have faith in God. To be able to place all their burdens and worries at the feet of Christ and say "Lord, have mercy on me a sinner". And if the condition of the heart is right and the Lord wills it, all the anxieties, all of the hopelessness would go away. The yearning for the Kingdom of Heaven and to live a life forever growing in the love of God would heal their grumblings and impatience. And therein they would find beauty in all things. In every moment of the day, with everyone they are with. The mystery of the true depths of love would be revealed to its most singular, its source, from God Himself. Here, by the grace of God we partake in the divine nature. We become 'wearers of Christ'. Temples of the Holy Spirit.

We should pray for these troubled souls to gain this knowledge. To know that God loves them and waits for those, in fact knocks on the door and waits (though many of us have learned to ignore the knockings, to the point where we do not even know when they are occuring).

Through this faith, and in this love, the young will elevate this movement to one that may bring a long lasting peace and growth to the world. The respect of the individual. The rule of law. With liberty, justice, for all. Not some, but all.

This is how we must proceed. We must learn to love one another and bear eachother's burdens.

[dr. hfn]

I'm no longer a student at that university (thanks be to God). However, as a local member of my county Constitution Party, we are diligently working to get a Young Constitutionalists Club on the campus (provided we find a faculty sponsor).

how about a Young Americans for Liberty chapter instead?

[Bman]

What they need is to have faith in God. To be able to place all their burdens and worries at the feet of Christ and say "Lord, have mercy on me a sinner". And if the condition of the heart is right and the Lord wills it, all the anxieties, all of the hopelessness would go away.

WHat they need is to get up and vote for candidates, who will protect their god given rights. The main problem you will have is getting this message out to the people who have rationalized that your idea of god does not fit their own. Your best bet at this point is to also be well versed in Austrian economics so they can see the faults in socialist ideas.

[SimpleName]

Lest I be mistaken, I generally support freedom of expression, provided it's qualified. There are some forms of expression which can be immoral, seditious, or even blasphemous which I would not justify by appealing to "freedom of expression." We live in a country which was made great by certain ideals, and when there are people who seek to undermine those ideals by the public expression and even enforcement against them, it is my conviction that it needs to be exposed and corrected. Socialism is evil, and it's evil by reason of its core principles that men do not have a right to private property and the liberty to do what they want with that private property, as a blessing from God.

So, no, I do not agree with them having a Student Socialists Club anymore than I would agree with a student organization for the advancement of pedophilia. In my eyes, they are both immoral ideas (howbeit immoral on different grounds). It is sickening that human minds have been poisoned to believe that socialism is good for everyone, and that upon our younger generation.

You know, Theo (as if I knew you...lol), for the first time I think I just about completely agree with you. That was an excellent post. This is the way I view it as well. I may even go a bit further in my personal life. Sometimes too far I think.

Nonetheless, I adore freedom of expression and all that highly prized junk. But in this case, what the students are touting is undermining our lives and forcing us into a slavery of constant government control. I wasn't here pre-Civil War, but I'm pretty damn sure the blacks were not "open" to their owners' freedoms. This is the reverse I guess, but definitely applies. Socialists are trying to steal your rights away from you. They aren't going to live in their own special socialist utopia; they're going to setup shop right in your neighborhood. Just as a maniac would kidnap your child, these socialists are trying to kidnap your liberty. In both cases, it is for the maniac's (socialist's) personal interests.

I don't take them lightly as just some innocent crew of free thinkers. What they are endorsing, whether they understand it or not, is downright immoral. It is in fact, slavery. And not the lite form we have today with taxation, regulation and such, but a takeover of your free will.

Good news is, this is exactly the opposite method obama is trying to take. Maybe their outright call for socialism will work against them, isolating them and therefore making their attempts to push socialism futile. Or we can just talk sense into them.

[TER]

Socialists are trying to steal your rights away from you.


Why?

[Endgame]

Most college "kids" are establishment shills and fascists without even realizing it.

[Dionysus]

Most college "kids" are establishment shills and fascists without even realizing it.

Just cause some girls won't sleep with you does NOT make them establishment shills and fascists.

j/k, they are establishment shills and fascists. They're something. Something not very bright.

---

So, to answer the OP's question, just talk a lot about Marx and workers' paradises, and I'm sure she'll be down in no time! A little Russian vodka wouldn't hurt, either, preferably one with a prominently featured hammer and sickle. You're gonna be alright.

[Theocrat]

So would you be in favor of Evangelical Fudamentalists Christian Clubs on a college campus?

In principle, I would first be against having the State in charge of college campuses, so there would be no issues with student organizations as we're discussing now. However, having students minister to the needs of other students is righteous, so I would not have a problem with "evangelical, fundamentalist Christian clubs. Socialism, on the other hand, is not a righteous endeavor worthy of promotion nor encouragement for the common good. Therefore, any club or organization seeking to advocate such an idea is evil and should not be supported.

[Theocrat]

I'm disappointed. I thought there were fellow liberty lovers here. Not partisan "You're wrong, I'm right!"


Even if they are delusional in their beliefs, it is not our right to change them. Liberty is for everyone, not only certain people with certain politically beliefs.

Let them have their political beliefs. If you think they threaten your game in getting more people to your side, compete with them. If your side has more logic, you are bound to win.

Your sentiments above is the same kind of hypocrisy which we see coming from the liberals today when expressing their views. You tell us we shouldn't be "partisan" by telling one group of people they're wrong about their beliefs, but then you turn around and condemn us who are against socialist clubs that we're wrong, saying "we have no right" to tell them so! Yet, your sentiments make yourself guilty of your own standard which you've placed upon others.

Liberty does not entail allowing any belief to prevail as truth. When people have wrong beliefs, it is our duty to address and correct those faulty views, in love and with respect. As mentioned before, socialism is evil. It's not simply a set of propositions which have no earthly content about them. There are some wicked (and well-meaning) people who are trying to undermine liberty by the infiltration of socialism into our culture.

We see in our universities more and more that socialism is becoming the supposed cure to our nation's problems, and it is being fed to the next generation, nonetheless. What kind of world will we bring our children up in when the generation before them is proud of State-control of all goods and services? That is antithetical to liberty, if we allow such ideas to have prevalence all because we believe socialists "have a right" to not be condemned in their beliefs.

[SelfTaught]

I went to Harold Washington College, a City of Chicago community college and people were passing out a socialist newspaper right outside the door which was the main entry/exit for the building. Not that strange. People don't know what capitalism really is, only what they've been told by their leftist friends and marxist professors.

[constituent]

Here we come Socialists!

http://www.theirsecrets.info/militia.jpg

zinga!

...and i would just like to add

http://www.bugsweeps.com/resources/discover/spy-vs-spy.jpg

[Theocrat]

You know, Theo (as if I knew you...lol), for the first time I think I just about completely agree with you. That was an excellent post. This is the way I view it as well. I may even go a bit further in my personal life. Sometimes too far I think.

Nonetheless, I adore freedom of expression and all that highly prized junk. But in this case, what the students are touting is undermining our lives and forcing us into a slavery of constant government control. I wasn't here pre-Civil War, but I'm pretty damn sure the blacks were not "open" to their owners' freedoms. This is the reverse I guess, but definitely applies. Socialists are trying to steal your rights away from you. They aren't going to live in their own special socialist utopia; they're going to setup shop right in your neighborhood. Just as a maniac would kidnap your child, these socialists are trying to kidnap your liberty. In both cases, it is for the maniac's (socialist's) personal interests.

I don't take them lightly as just some innocent crew of free thinkers. What they are endorsing, whether they understand it or not, is downright immoral. It is in fact, slavery. And not the lite form we have today with taxation, regulation and such, but a takeover of your free will.

Good news is, this is exactly the opposite method obama is trying to take. Maybe their outright call for socialism will work against them, isolating them and therefore making their attempts to push socialism futile. Or we can just talk sense into them.

Thanks for your post. Something that is just as sickening as socialists having clubs to promote their evil agenda is people who claim to be advocates of liberty saying it's okay for such clubs to exist. Maybe they fail to realize that those whose "right to socialism" they claim to protect are the same ones who are working to take away their rights to do anything without permission from the State, as you've mentioned.

[Theocrat]

Students today, especially in the universities, are completely jaded with life given the mess they have inherited and the dim prospects ahead, and are searching for better ways, and we should respect them and help correct them. To enlighten them to liberty and respect for the individual, a child of God, who is made in the image of God Himself. After all, it is our generation (speaking on behalf of the greying population here in the Liberty Forest!) who have created this mess and need to correct it for them.

What they need is to have faith in God. To be able to place all their burdens and worries at the feet of Christ and say "Lord, have mercy on me a sinner". And if the condition of the heart is right and the Lord wills it, all the anxieties, all of the hopelessness would go away. The yearning for the Kingdom of Heaven and to live a life forever growing in the love of God would heal their grumblings and impatience. And therein they would find beauty in all things. In every moment of the day, with everyone they are with. The mystery of the true depths of love would be revealed to its most singular, its source, from God Himself. Here, by the grace of God we partake in the divine nature. We become 'wearers of Christ'. Temples of the Holy Spirit.

We should pray for these troubled souls to gain this knowledge. To know that God loves them and waits for those, in fact knocks on the door and waits (though many of us have learned to ignore the knockings, to the point where we do not even know when they are occuring).

Through this faith, and in this love, the young will elevate this movement to one that may bring a long lasting peace and growth to the world. The respect of the individual. The rule of law. With liberty, justice, for all. Not some, but all.

This is how we must proceed. We must learn to love one another and bear eachother's burdens.

I appreciate your sentiments there, TER. Faith and love towards God is the cornerstone towards abiding in the truth, away from damnable ideas like socialism where the State becomes god. We should be seeking the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, first, and so shall our blessings come to us, as we're told in Matthew 6:33. However, we should not be afraid nor ashamed to expose false ideas when they prevail in our society. That shouldn't mean we use force to change minds, either.

My concern is that we're training up the next generation to hate something which they don't even understand at the outset. Most socialists have misguided views about what capitalism is (Michael Moore being a popular example of that.). When they protest against it, they are usually speaking out against something else, like fascism or corporatism. Yet, our youth are rarely corrected on the distinctions amongst those ideas. Hence, I'm afraid we're having an uprising of positive socialist thought, beginning in our colleges/universities (with clubs and organizations as mentioned in this thread) and affirmed by our media and government.

Yet, some members here seem to think there is no reason for an alarm, supposing it's just an issue of freedom of expression and differences of opinion. I'm sorry, but something needs to be said about these youth socialist clubs because the future of our posterity is at stake here, and as always, there is a war of ideas on the minds of us all ("Infowars," to use Alex Jones' phrase).

[__27__]

We get our message out as well. Today my chapter of YAL had a great event celebrating the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall, complete with our own 'cardboard' wall. I was only able to hang out for an hour or so, but we had a professor bring her entire class out to discuss our wall with us. She was a strident Dem and enjoyed a bit of debate with us (the high point being when she, a history professor, tried to tell me that the Federal Reserve was NOT a private bank). In between classes we had plenty of people stop and ask questions, and many I think starting to ask questions to themselves, and starting to see how bi-partisan support of things like the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the war on drugs is bankrupting our country and destroying their ability to be individuals.

Not all campus orgs are socialist, and I think the liberty movement on campus' in this country, and students acceptance of the philosophy of liberty in general, is greatly underestimated. Whether we are able to win the youth to the liberty movement before the socialists con them may very well determine the future of this country. YAL's first issue had a great cover:

http://southernavenger.ccpblogs.com/files/2009/02/yar-med.jpg

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

We get our message out as well. Today my chapter of YAL had a great event celebrating the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall, complete with our own 'cardboard' wall. I was only able to hang out for an hour or so, but we had a professor bring her entire class out to discuss our wall with us. She was a strident Dem and enjoyed a bit of debate with us (the high point being when she, a history professor, tried to tell me that the Federal Reserve was NOT a private bank). In between classes we had plenty of people stop and ask questions, and many I think starting to ask questions to themselves, and starting to see how bi-partisan support of things like the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the war on drugs is bankrupting our country and destroying their ability to be individuals.

Not all campus orgs are socialist, and I think the liberty movement on campus' in this country, and students acceptance of the philosophy of liberty in general, is greatly underestimated. Whether we are able to win the youth to the liberty movement before the socialists con them may very well determine the future of this country. YAL's first issue had a great cover:

http://southernavenger.ccpblogs.com/files/2009/02/yar-med.jpg

Thats awesome. Remember the YAF were instrumental in getting Goldwater nominated. Then they got taken over by the Neo-Cons and the Goldwater guys left to form the LP, along with the strident "Old Right" who took Rothbard's teaching to heart. We can win, and we will win.

[Deborah K]

This whole thread is stupid. Not the OP, just the following discussions.

1. Its not exactly news that colleges are infected with socialists.
2. "Infiltrating", which I guess would amount to joining and then asking questions that point out how clueless they all are, is not some terrible/immoral/taboo act. Stop freaking out about nothing.
3. All the people in this thread who were offended by the idea of "infiltrating" socialist clubs, don't really take seriously, and would not act on their own recommendation of openly talking with socialists. Its just banter, you wouldn't actually try and debate a delusional group that outnumbered you.
4. Deborah is overreacting a bit. College socialists are only dangerous when they vote, and even then their not very scary. Considering the economic state this country is in, and the sheer intellectual bankruptcy of hardcore socialism/communism, the dreams of these little commie turds don't have much of a chance of coming true.

Check into who Obama surrounds himself with and then tell me I'm overreacting. His circle is inundated with marxists, many of whom adimittedly got their ideas from socialist professors, etc. while in college. Even Obama admits this in his book: "The Audacity of Hope".

Also, I recommend you read, "The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America". Found here: http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/MomsPDFs/DDDoA.sml.pdf In it, you will find a chronology of how the progressive movement (marxism/socialism) has infiltrated the education system over the past 100 years and incrementally caused a shift in political thinking which has now fermented in our current political system.

[Deborah K]

Wasn't talking to you. Mainly was addressing Theocrat(who's post always I find funny) and Debrah K. Not you mate.

I came up with a tactic based on my opinion, well substantiated I might add. I don't see how that equated to "bitching" and not acting. I've done more political action in one year than most on this board have done their whole lives buddy boy. ;)

[Deborah K]

Are you suggesting ending freedom of speech for people who have different "ideologies"? Surly you must not be.

Please point me to the post where I suggested ending someone's freedom of speech.

[Cowlesy]

Also offer a free hat.

<Looks at keychain with Young Republicans bottle-cap opener I picked up freshman year, 1st semester, a decade ago>

[__27__]

Thats awesome. Remember the YAF were instrumental in getting Goldwater nominated. Then they got taken over by the Neo-Cons and the Goldwater guys left to form the LP, along with the strident "Old Right" who took Rothbard's teaching to heart. We can win, and we will win.

Yes we CAN! :lol:

Some pics from the event:


http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm290/Timps27/week4andYAL033.jpg

Our cardboard 'Berlin Wall' representing the policies in our country which are rebuilding the wall.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm290/Timps27/week4andYAL044.jpg

Me and the club president arguing with the history professor (who thinks the Fed is not a private bank) and her class. (I am the one in the black/gold/maroon U of M Gopher hockey jersey)

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm290/Timps27/week4andYAL050.jpg

Up the flagpole ON the campus at St. Cloud State in front of the student center in replacement of the Minnesota flag is the Gadsden flag, approved by the school for flight during our demonstration.


A good time was had by all!

[Danke]

Atheist student groups flower on college campuses (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_rel_atheism_on_campus)


AMES, Iowa – The sign sits propped on a wooden chair, inviting all comers: "Ask an Atheist."

Whenever a student gets within a few feet, Anastasia Bodnar waves and smiles, trying to make a good first impression before eyes drift down to a word many Americans rank down there with "socialist."

"A lot of people on campus either don't know we exist..." says Bodnar, president of the ISU Atheist and Agnostic Society

[tonesforjonesbones]

Reminds me of the sixties. tones

[LibertyMage]

"The American people will never knowlingly adopt socialism."

Exactly. When people know the real intentions of groups, those groups can be countered with facts. When intentions are masked by rhetoric, you cannot easily counter them.

[awake]

It will not and has not come by the name socialism. It is being installed incrementally through welfarism.

[Pepsi]

Just remind them what happen with the Sovite Union, and tell them thats waiting for them.

[awake]

Burn some disks with PDF copies of Mises' Socialism. Or direct them to the The Black Book Of Communism.

[NYgs23]

...direct them to the The Black Book Of Communism.

They'll just say that that's not socialism, that's communism. And the communists among them will say that that's not communism, that's Stalinism.

[heavenlyboy34]

I have been appalled by something which I've seen at my local university. There are signs advertising a "Student Socialists Club" open for all people to attend and join. The signs even advocate that we need "Socialism Now!" How things have changed for our present times that even our upcoming generation has been (academically speaking) indoctrinated to be proud of socialism, in a manner that would make Karl Marx grin with pride today.

Have any of you noticed that sort of club being advertised at your local universities/colleges? It seems to me this has gone viral, and viral in an infectious and sickening way.


I haven't been out in student circles lately, but I've noticed people openly praising socialism and denouncing Capitalism on various other websites I traverse. :eek::(:p

[jmdrake]

You put a fire out with water, not by throwing more gasoline on it.


Are you sure about that? Doesn't it depend on the fire?

YouTube - Dont Mix water with oil and fire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QykIqRBSNkI)

I keep thinking about the Obama quote during the bailout "If your neighbor's house is on fire you don't try to first find out what caused the fire. You put water on it". He clearly was never in the boy scouts.



Just avoid my whole point. I keep on seeing this movement turn into another partisan faction that will push towards real tyranny.

Is it that outrageous to talk to those we don't agree with calmly and diplomatically? To find a common ground and to expand on it? Is that not how we gain new supporters?

Well if someone was advocating passing a law barring "socialist groups" I'd call that tyranny. (And yes that means I disagree with theocrat's earlier point that he'd ban them like he'd ban pedophile clubs.) As for "talking to those we don't agree with calmly and diplomatically" wouldn't going to their meetings facilitate that?

[awake]

OT: A Firefighter can use water to put out a petroleum based fire; it takes special tactical techniques.

[pcosmar]

You put a fire out with water, not by throwing more gasoline on it.

<snip>




OT: A Firefighter can use water to put out a petroleum based fire; it takes special tactical techniques.

You can put it out by detonating dynamite, and blowing it out.
I am not sure that socialism could be dealt with as easily.