View Full Version : Teen gets life sentence for killing pimp who raped her at 13
almantimes2
11-02-2009, 05:01 PM
http://rawstory.com/2009/11/teen-life-sentence-raped-13/
coyote_sprit
11-02-2009, 05:22 PM
I don't think age should play into the crime you committed, though I have no problems with people murdering killing rapists.
brandon
11-02-2009, 05:30 PM
I don't think age should play into the crime you committed, though I have no problems with people murdering killing rapists.
I share your disdain for real rapists, but unfortunately there are a lot of girls in this country that are quick to blow the rape whistle after a night of consensual sex in an attempt to protect their reputation. Vigilante justice would result in a lot of innocent men being killed.
Imagine this:
Your wife just got pregnant but you have had a vasectomy and cannot possibly be the father. Your wife claims she was raped by some guy she met at a bar but was too afraid to speak about it, when in reality she got drunk and voluntarily had sex with him.
In a blinding rage, you go and murder an innocent man...
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 05:36 PM
I don't think age should play into the crime you committed, though I have no problems with people murdering killing rapists.
I think age should play a role. It certainly play a role in "G.G." being able to manipulate this poor girl starting at age 11.
mconder
11-02-2009, 05:37 PM
http://rawstory.com/2009/11/teen-life-sentence-raped-13/
She should be punished for stepping outside the law, but if it is proven she was rapped by him then the sentence should be greatly reduced.
RonPaulFanInGA
11-02-2009, 05:39 PM
A lot of females lie about being raped.
an innocent man...
I'm not sure "adultery" counts as "innocent".
Note: I am not saying anyone should kill anyone for any reason, either. Just making a point about the claim of "innocence".
pcosmar
11-02-2009, 05:42 PM
She should be punished for stepping outside the law, but if it is proven she was rapped by him then the sentence should be greatly reduced.
Sounds more like a case of Justifiable Homicide.
JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE - That which is committed with the intention to kill or to do a grievous bodily injury, under circumstances which the law holds sufficient to exculpate the person who commits it.
dannno
11-02-2009, 05:44 PM
I'm not sure "adultery" counts as "innocent".
Note: I am not saying anyone should kill anyone for any reason, either. Just making a point about the claim of "innocence".
Under the law it does.. maybe not in God's eyes..
RonPaulFanInGA
11-02-2009, 05:45 PM
Sounds more like a case of Justifiable Homicide.
Justifiable homicide is something you do when you're being threatened, not long after the fact.
Why didn't this girl go to the police after her supposed rape?
Warrior_of_Freedom
11-02-2009, 05:45 PM
question: is rape as bad or worse than murder?
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 05:46 PM
A lot of females lie about being raped.
Most females don't end up killing someone in any circumstance. If rape wasn't the motive, what do you think was the motive? It should be rather easy to ascertain if this "G.G." fellow was in fact a pimp. If yes then he likely was a rapist. That goes with the territory.
RonPaulFanInGA
11-02-2009, 05:48 PM
Most females don't end up killing someone in any circumstance. If rape wasn't the motive, what do you think was the motive? It should be rather easy to ascertain if this "G.G." fellow was in fact a pimp. If yes then he likely was a rapist. That goes with the territory.
If she was raped, she should have gone to the police. As such, there is no proof she ever was, but there is proof she murdered someone in cold blood.
The whole rape thing could just be something thought up by her lawyer to try and get her off the hook or a lesser sentence.
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 05:50 PM
I share your disdain for real rapists, but unfortunately there are a lot of girls in this country that are quick to blow the rape whistle after a night of consensual sex in an attempt to protect their reputation. Vigilante justice would result in a lot of innocent men being killed.
Imagine this:
Your wife just got pregnant but you have had a vasectomy and cannot possibly be the father. Your wife claims she was raped by some guy she met at a bar but was too afraid to speak about it, when in reality she got drunk and voluntarily had sex with him.
In a blinding rage, you go and murder an innocent man...
There is a difference between endorsing "vigilante justice" and allowing for mitigating circumstance to reduce a sentence. Also in your imaginary scenario you've given a reason for the wife to claim rape. How could claiming a rape from 3 years later protect someone's reputation? Obviously it's a little late to claim "I'm pregnant because of the rape".
Under the law it does.. maybe not in God's eyes..
I don't define the word "innocent" with a "legal" definition in common usage. Adultery is not illegal, but one cannot commit it and be "innocent" of wrongdoing.
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 05:53 PM
If she was raped, she should have gone to the police.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. You want to quote what women are likely to do? Most little girls are not likely to go to the police when they are raped. Especially when they don't have much of a support system at home.
As such, there is no proof she ever was, but there is proof she murdered someone in cold blood.
The whole rape thing could just be something thought up by her lawyer to try and get her off the hook or a lesser sentence.
No "proof" but possible evidence of a rape. (Other girls coming forward who were raped by "G.G.". Police record of G.G. being a pimp. Police record of G.G. pimping little girls.) There's been enough "proof" of rape years later for the Catholic church to be out of boatloads of money. And those little boys didn't go to the police either.
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 05:55 PM
I don't define the word "innocent" with a "legal" definition in common usage. Adultery is not illegal, but one cannot commit it and be "innocent" of wrongdoing.
Actually adultery is illegal in many states. It's just almost never prosecuted.
See: http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/505.htm
dannno
11-02-2009, 06:00 PM
question: is rape as bad or worse than murder?
I would rather get raped that murdered....
Warrior_of_Freedom
11-02-2009, 06:05 PM
I would rather get raped that murdered....
I was in a class before and the professor asked the class if rapists deserve to die. All the women said yes, the girly men said yes, and the rest of us, who had a brain, said no, because rape does not = murder.
Actually adultery is illegal in many states. It's just almost never prosecuted.
See: http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/505.htm
Interesting! Adultery should at the least be considered a breach of (implied) contract liable to collect damages over, though it is much, much worse than a mere breach of contract.
phill4paul
11-02-2009, 06:13 PM
I was in a class before and the professor asked the class if rapists deserve to die. All the women said yes, the girly men said yes, and the rest of us, who had a brain, said no, because rape does not = murder.
If someone commits suicide do to the phycological trauma of rape would murder charges be warranted?
Not saying anything one way or the other. Just opening this point up to discussion.
pcosmar
11-02-2009, 06:19 PM
because rape does not = murder.
SO
Justifiable Homicide does not = murder.
Killing in self defense does not = murder
As far as I am concerned killing a child molester or rapist does not = murder
It equals Justice.
Warrior_of_Freedom
11-02-2009, 06:24 PM
If someone commits suicide do to the phycological trauma of rape would murder charges be warranted?
Not saying anything one way or the other. Just opening this point up to discussion.
that would depend on the case, there's so many gray areas in the law, it can go both ways, I think. It reminds me of something I saw a long time ago, someone was beaten up by some guy, and he hit his head. He got charged with assault, but a few days or weeks later, the guy had an aneurysm or something which caused him to die, then the assailant got hit with murder charges. WAsn't there some cyber-bullying crap where the girl killed herself? I wouldn't find it fair to be charged with murder because I teased some kid and they killed themselves over it.
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 06:26 PM
I was in a class before and the professor asked the class if rapists deserve to die. All the women said yes, the girly men said yes, and the rest of us, who had a brain, said no, because rape does not = murder.
Rape does not equal murder. But that's not the end of the analysis in this case. Look at it another way. Most people would be horrified to hear about a store owner killing someone to prevent shoplifting. But almost nobody would be upset over someone killing someone else to stop a rape. (Assuming that there was no proof problem over the rape). The problem is that this killing is so far removed from the initial crime (again assuming no proof problem). Again I say look at the circumstantial evidence surrounding this "G.G." person. Did he have a history of pimping little girls? Are there other current and/or former 13 year old hookers willing to come forward? If so then there's reason to reduce the sentence. I've read cases where the killers were much less sympathetic than this girl who got off much lighter.
Warrior_of_Freedom
11-02-2009, 06:30 PM
Rape does not equal murder. But that's not the end of the analysis in this case. Look at it another way. Most people would be horrified to hear about a store owner killing someone to prevent shoplifting. But almost nobody would be upset over someone killing someone else to stop a rape. (Assuming that there was no proof problem over the rape). The problem is that this killing is so far removed from the initial crime (again assuming no proof problem). Again I say look at the circumstantial evidence surrounding this "G.G." person. Did he have a history of pimping little girls? Are there other current and/or former 13 year old hookers willing to come forward? If so then there's reason to reduce the sentence. I've read cases where the killers were much less sympathetic than this girl who got off much lighter.
yeah its different then, but the guy sounds like garbage, shame the girl has a life sentence
Freedom 4 all
11-02-2009, 06:31 PM
I'm not sure "adultery" counts as "innocent".
Note: I am not saying anyone should kill anyone for any reason, either. Just making a point about the claim of "innocence".
What if she didn't tell the bar dude she was married?
What if she didn't tell the bar dude she was married?
Then he is less at fault than if he did know, but though I would say he is more innocent due to his ignorance, I wouldn't say he is 100% innocent. It's kind of a grey area. The woman is still 100% at fault though.
What I mean is, the husband reserves the right to be angry at the guy, but the true fault lies on the wife.
JenH88
11-02-2009, 06:35 PM
You want to quote what women are likely to do? Most little girls are not likely to go to the police when they are raped. Especially when they don't have much of a support system at home.
this is the absolute truth...
if this chick was in fact raped, id understand her motives and her feelings on the matter, even time removed from the situation.. does she deserve jail time? of course, rape isnt as severe as murder.. but life? cmon, ive seen murderers get off with 5 years without a justifiable reason..
dannno
11-02-2009, 06:38 PM
The problem with giving people the death penalty for rape is that it's not always easy to prove someone was even raped... so do you want to give EVERY convicted rapist the death penalty, or just the ones where it's really violent/underage/obvious? Cause otherwise you'd have thousands of innocent men put to death every year...
In fact, we had a kid go to jail here recently for rape and there was no physical evidence he'd even touched the girl!! Somebody else's DNA was found on her from consensual sex.. and the verdict was all based on her testimony, which was HIGHLY questionable as she was extremely drunk during the incident. I'd hate to see that guy put to death for nothing.
I mean, it's easy to prove that somebody was murdered, it's harder to prove who did it, but to PROVE somebody was raped is extremely difficult. Signs of sex the night before and bruises are a good hint, but it could have been consensual sex and the bruises could be from a lot of other things including self mutilation.
In fact, if one wanted somebody to go to jail for a long time, one could pay a girl to talk to him at a bar and go home with him.. then after their encounter one could beat her up, and she could use the DNA from the night before to say she was raped. It would be difficult to convince the girl to do the same thing with murder.. most women aren't willing to die, but many women are willing to have sex (and perhaps get a little beat up) for large sums of money.
Nirvikalpa
11-02-2009, 06:42 PM
Funny.
I see two points here being thrown around.
1) She should have went to the police.
2) A lot of women lie about being raped.
Can you all make the connections with those two points? As a rape victim in majority of cases, the second you go to the police you are guilty of lying until you prove you really were raped, because of the overwhelming number of women who lie about it.
How can any of you say rape does not equal murder? Many of my friends I grew up with with rape victims, and from what I see, living a life with the emotional and psychological affects of rape is not easy. Some have told me they would have rather their rapist killed them than live and 'get over it,' - which they say is impossible, the fears are too great.
Sometimes watching a rape victim cope is too much to handle as well - hence why so many fathers/mothers murder the rapists that raped their daughters.
I'm not saying I support what she did, but I can understand why she did it. Once again, the fact that immorality is rampant in this society and goes in circles is true. If you don't want a crime committed against you, you do not commit a crime against someone else, and if you do, you should expect and understand the consequences.
cradle2graveconservative
11-02-2009, 07:29 PM
Edit
Working Poor
11-02-2009, 07:33 PM
A lot of females lie about being raped.
And a lot of them never tell anyone
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 07:50 PM
The problem with giving people the death penalty for rape is that it's not always easy to prove someone was even raped... so do you want to give EVERY convicted rapist the death penalty, or just the ones where it's really violent/underage/obvious? Cause otherwise you'd have thousands of innocent men put to death every year...
In fact, we had a kid go to jail here recently for rape and there was no physical evidence he'd even touched the girl!! Somebody else's DNA was found on her from consensual sex.. and the verdict was all based on her testimony, which was HIGHLY questionable as she was extremely drunk during the incident. I'd hate to see that guy put to death for nothing.
I mean, it's easy to prove that somebody was murdered, it's harder to prove who did it, but to PROVE somebody was raped is extremely difficult. Signs of sex the night before and bruises are a good hint, but it could have been consensual sex and the bruises could be from a lot of other things including self mutilation.
In fact, if one wanted somebody to go to jail for a long time, one could pay a girl to talk to him at a bar and go home with him.. then after their encounter one could beat her up, and she could use the DNA from the night before to say she was raped. It would be difficult to convince the girl to do the same thing with murder.. most women aren't willing to die, but many women are willing to have sex (and perhaps get a little beat up) for large sums of money.
Sometimes it's easy to lose sight of the facts while looking through the lens of "hypotheticals". The question of "consentuality" doesn't exist in this case. (You can't consent at 13). Back to your "set up scenario", how many women do you know would be willing to throw away 20 years of her life (assuming for the sake of argument that she could be guaranteed a "light" sentence of 20 years if she killed someone and claimed she had been raped) just for some money? Some might, but that would be the exception, not the rule.
Sure there's a "proof problem" for rape. And I don't agree with the death penalty for rape. That said if the penalty was higher there probably would be a lot more scrutiny. Barry Scheck (innocence project) would get involved in the DNA case you mentioned if the stakes life and death for the accused. And the proof problem cuts both ways. My cousin sat on a jury where she was sure the accused did it, but they didn't have the evidence. The girl testified that she felt so "dirty" after being raped that she went home and took a shower. Completely understandable from a victim point of view. And completely the wrong thing to do from a prosecution point of view.
As a man I totally feel the "let's not make the rape proof bar too low" argument. But this case isn't about proving rape. It's whether or not a case can be made for leniency under these facts. I think the answer is yes. Again it comes down to does evidence exists beyond the word of this one girl that "G.G." went around pimping and / or raping underage women? If yes then this girl got screwed...twice.
RonPaulFanInGA
11-02-2009, 08:40 PM
To be convicted, one must be proven guilty.
Was this girl's murdering someone proven in a court of law in front of a jury of her peers? Yes, and she got a guilty verdict.
Was this rape ever proven? No. No one here KNOWS for sure this rape happened. It's anyones' guess as to whether she is telling the truth or lying about that.
So the bottom-line is her murdering someone is proven, her being raped by the guy she murdered is not. Hence the life sentence.
catdd
11-02-2009, 08:46 PM
She should have knocked him out and castrated him.
Wonder how much time she would have gotten for that?
pcosmar
11-02-2009, 09:06 PM
To be convicted, one must be proven guilty.
BULLSHIT
You live in an illusion.
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 09:12 PM
To be convicted, one must be proven guilty.
Was this girl's murdering someone proven in a court of law in front of a jury of her peers? Yes, and she got a guilty verdict.
Was this rape ever proven? No. No one here KNOWS for sure this rape happened. It's anyones' guess as to whether she is telling the truth or lying about that.
So the bottom-line is her murdering someone is proven, her being raped by the guy she murdered is not. Hence the life sentence.
A victim does not and should not have to be proven "guilty" before a defendant can be found innocent, or in this case to make a finding of mitigating circumstances. And I've repeatedly said look to other circumstances such as if there were other girls who came forward with similar stories!
tangent4ronpaul
11-02-2009, 09:15 PM
pimping out a 13 yo is so messed up I can't even begin to describe it...
actually most pimps are low lives - get girls hooked on heroin or crack so they keep coming back, beat them if they don't do what they want. often kill them if they are too rebellious or too worn out. one girl I went to HS with was stupid enough to let a black guy knock her up. he kept held the kid hostage and made her work the street. She had to bring home a "rock" for him before she could get formula to feed the kid. Help was offered, but she was too scared of him to accept it. Totally messed up situation.
-t
RonPaulFanInGA
11-02-2009, 09:16 PM
A victim does not and should not have to be proven "guilty" before a defendant can be found innocent, or in this case to make a finding of mitigating circumstances.
So, basically, a woman can go ahead murdering any man she wants as long as she claims to have been raped afterwards?
"Trust me officer, this guy raped me a year ago. No, I didn't report it and have no proof other than my claim. Isn't my word good enough? Why are you harassing the victim?!"
BULLSHIT
You live in an illusion.
Personally I think you do. Our system isn't perfect, but none ever will be. What apparently "non-illusion" are you claiming to live in?
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 09:20 PM
So, basically, a woman can go ahead murdering any man she wants as long as she claims to have been raped afterwards?
"Trust me officer, this guy raped me a year ago. No, I didn't report it and have no proof other than my claim. Isn't my word good enough? Why are you harassing the victim?!"
:rolleyes: Can you read? And I've repeatedly said look to other circumstances such as if there were other girls who came forward with similar stories! Besides, a reduced sentence does not equal getting away with it. 20 years hard time is nothing to sneeze at.
RonPaulFanInGA
11-02-2009, 09:24 PM
And I've repeatedly said look to other circumstances such as if there were other girls who came forward with similar stories
You ever consider that maybe they, you know, already did that?
jmdrake
11-02-2009, 09:27 PM
You ever consider that maybe they, you know, already did that?
Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The justice system is screwed up like that. But saying "maybe they did" is a far cry from saying "He'd have to be found guilty for the girl to catch a break".
pcosmar
11-02-2009, 09:27 PM
Personally I think you do. Our system isn't perfect, but none ever will be. What apparently "non-illusion" are you claiming to live in?
Innocent people are convicted regularly. There are many that have their innocence proven years later and some that die without ever being proved innocent.
Your claim that "To be convicted, one must be proven guilty." is total bullshit.
This is just one organization.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
WClint
11-03-2009, 12:35 AM
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
3years of abuse and she ended up killing him?
not exactly long after the fact. she was still with him on a day to day basis
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.