2001 Photo: William Ayers stepping on US flag

[sofia]

Meet the man who launched Obama's Illinois senate campaign
who ghost wrote Obama's first book
who visited the White House 2 times already...

admitted communist...terrorist....cop killer...America hater....Bill Ayers

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Z5IE4BFBcPc/SB9G-geSrdI/AAAAAAAAB8k/kxPbxwZL_TY/s400/Ayers+flag.jpg

[jmdrake]

http://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/bush_steps_on_flag.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Meet the man who launched Obama's Illinois senate campaign
who ghost wrote Obama's first book
who visited the White House 2 times already...

admitted communist...terrorist....cop killer...America hater....Bill Ayers

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Z5IE4BFBcPc/SB9G-geSrdI/AAAAAAAAB8k/kxPbxwZL_TY/s400/Ayers+flag.jpg

Meh, I'd step on it too, it no longer represents anything of substance anyway.

The problem is Ayers would step on for reasons diametrically opposite of the reasons I would.

The best thing that can happen is a break up, a dissolution, let the Ayers go their way and us, ours.

148 years ago we were forced to stay together at the barrel of gun.

It's high time for that shotgun marriage to end.

[t0rnado]

It's a piece of cloth that was designed in the 1950s. It doesn't represent the Constitution, liberty, or our rights. It represents an era of fear, jingoism, and growth in government. If disagree with Bill Ayers for stepping on that flag, then you agree with what has become of America from the 1950s to now.

[LibertyEagle]

Actually, to a lot of us, the flag represents the principles upon which this country was founded. So while I support an American's right to burn it, you would not want to do it anywhere within my eyesight.

Note: And BTW, t0rnado, the U.S. flag has been around since 1777.

Note2: Bill Ayers is a Marxist pig.

[UnReconstructed]

it looks like he's standing behind it to me.

[Elwar]

It's a false idol...which the government makes you pledge allegiance to.

[LibertyEagle]

It's a false idol...which the government makes you pledge allegiance to.

Who MAKES YOU pledge allegiance to it? I venture to say that I am quite a lot older than you and NO ONE has EVER MADE ME.

[constituent]

Meet the man who launched Obama's Illinois senate campaign
who ghost wrote Obama's first book
who visited the White House 2 times already...

admitted communist...terrorist....cop killer...America hater....Bill Ayers

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Z5IE4BFBcPc/SB9G-geSrdI/AAAAAAAAB8k/kxPbxwZL_TY/s400/Ayers+flag.jpg

Next you'll be telling us the UN has to keep us safe from Iran and N. Korea.

I'd love to hear your opinions on fighting terrorism...

[LibertyEagle]

Next you'll be telling us the UN has to keep us safe from Iran and N. Korea.

I'd love to hear your opinions on fighting terrorism...

What does calling Ayers out for the scum that he is, have to do with the POS UN?

[YumYum]

Who MAKES YOU pledge allegiance to it? I venture to say that I am quite a lot older than you and NO ONE has EVER MADE ME.

I was to made to say the pledge when I was a kid because I was raised a Jehovah's witness and they are not allowed to say the pledge of allegiance. The teacher punished me. It was a pretty bad experience.

[Justinjj1]

communist...terrorist....cop killer...America hater

What a bunch of b.s. Fox News talking points. Ayers probably has similar foreign policy beliefs to Ron Paul.

[LibertyEagle]

communist...terrorist....cop killer...America hater

What a bunch of b.s. Fox News talking points. Ayers probably has similar foreign policy beliefs to Ron Paul.

Mentioning Ayers in the same breath as Ron Paul is very insulting.

[constituent]

What does calling Ayers out for the scum that he is, have to do with the POS UN?

It's not the mere act of calling Ayers out, it's the time, manner and place chosen to do so.

This thread is kinda silly, don't you agree?

[LibertyEagle]

I was to made to say the pledge when I was a kid because I was raised a Jehovah's witness and they are not allowed to say the pledge of allegiance. The teacher punished me. It was a pretty bad experience.

That is indeed too bad. Sounds like your parents needed to visit the school and have a come to Jesus meeting, as we used to say, with the principal.

[LibertyEagle]

It's not the mere act of calling Ayers out, it's the time, manner and place chosen to do so.

This thread is kinda silly, don't you agree?

I don't know, I think a whole lot of the threads on here are silly. But, what I find the most silly about this particular thread are the responses to the OP's post.

[constituent]

I don't know, I think a whole lot of the threads on here are silly.

I wonder what you see as the solution...

[Anti Federalist]

I don't know, I think a whole lot of the threads on here are silly. But, what I find the most silly about this particular thread are the responses to the OP's post.

My response is based on nothing more than a refusal to get all riled up for a good witch hunt, based on neo-con outrage at Ayers.

That, and my sincere belief that the flag has lost any significant meaning.

It certainly has to me anyway.

[Reason]

sofia watches hannity 24/7

[LibertyEagle]

I wonder what you see as the solution...

Solution to silly threads? Beats the heck outta me.

[constituent]

sofia watches hannity 24/7

That's probably not a fair assessment. Her priorities might just differ from your own.

Trying to educate, even if only subtly, is certainly better than beating her over the head.

[I'm not claiming to be perfect]

[LibertyEagle]

My response is based on nothing more than a refusal to get all riled up for a good witch hunt, based on neo-con outrage at Ayers.

That, and my sincere belief that the flag has lost any significant meaning.

It certainly has to me anyway.

1. Neocons aren't the only ones who dislike Obama; much less Ayers.

2. We will have to agree to disagree about the flag. You and I apparently think it represents two different things altogether.

[jmdrake]

communist...terrorist....cop killer...America hater

What a bunch of b.s. Fox News talking points.


Except Bill Ayers gleefully admits at least the first two points.



Ayers probably has similar foreign policy beliefs to Ron Paul.

You mean Ron Paul now supports a worldwide carbon tax? :rolleyes:

I can better see defending Jeremiah Wright than Bill Ayers. Wright never blew anything up.

[Anti Federalist]

2. We will have to agree to disagree about the flag. You and I apparently think it represents two different things altogether.

I think it represents "the Republic for which it stands".

I think that Republic has been usurped and no longer exists as envisioned by the founders and framers of the document that created it.

It no longer functions as a free republic that, first and foremost, exists to protect individual rights of each citizen.

Therefore, the flag is only a piece of brightly colored cloth that represents something that is no more.

There's even a question about this? :confused:

[LibertyEagle]

I think it represents "the Republic for which it stands".

I think that Republic has been usurped and no longer exists as envisioned by the founders and framers of the document that created it.

It no longer functions as a free republic that, first and foremost, exists to protect individual rights of each citizen.

Therefore, the flag is only a piece of brightly colored cloth that represents something that is no more.

There's even a question about this? :confused:

To me, it represents the principles upon which this country was founded.

I already said we would have to agree to disagree on this.

And NO, I do NOT hate my country either; I hate the scum-sucking pigs who have taken control of my government and twisted what our Founders gave us beyond all recognition. That is where my hate is directed.

[Sandman33]

Actually, to a lot of us, the flag represents the principles upon which this country was founded. So while I support an American's right to burn it, you would not want to do it anywhere within my eyesight.

Note: And BTW, t0rnado, the U.S. flag has been around since 1777.

Note2: Bill Ayers is a Marxist pig.

*claps hands*

Exactly. That flag to me represents a land where no particular church or religion can force you in, and where free men decide thier future and can actually benefit from their labor. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

If it doesn't stand for that NOW then it's our own damn fault and we need to do something about it. But it certainly is NOT the flags fault.

[dannno]

The irony of this thread is that Bill Ayers isn't even stepping on the flag.. but the photo a couple posts below clearly shows Bush stepping on the flag.

Bush's ideology is much more dangerous than Ayers. Ayers is very extreme, yes, and I don't agree with all of the "alleged" goals of his group, but on the other hand they were trying to bring down an imperialist tyrannical empire.... Bush IS the imperialist tyrannical empire. We're comparing coffee beans to carbon molecules here. Weather Underground type organizations are never, EVER EVER going to kill nearly the amount of people nor take away as many liberties as the Bush ideology.

[sofia]

there are some reactionary and immature children on this site...

i oppose communist terrorists who step on the flag

sean hannity also opposes communist terrorists who step on the flag

ergo...i am a neo-con

idiots

[werdd]

Who MAKES YOU pledge allegiance to it? I venture to say that I am quite a lot older than you and NO ONE has EVER MADE ME.

I was forced to pledge in elementary school. It just seemed like a mundane thing to do every morning. I remember getting in some trouble for it, going to the principles office and such.

They also had prayer on the morning announcements. This is a public school too.

I also remember my gym teacher cussing me out, and when i told my parents and they complained to the school, they said i was flat out lying.

Then they put me in a weekly school counseling class for depressed/slow learning kids. Lots of things like the "I CAN" cup. I never had a problem with motivation when i was young, i was a star pop warner football player, and made straight A's. I actually at one point refused to go to the class, and got in some trouble until my parents got involved.

Quite the corrupt organization, the blatant attempt at indoctrination probably precipitated my political views later in life.

Just thought i would share my experience and childhood memories. Consequently i do not have high reguards for public education.

[RideTheDirt]

*claps hands*

Exactly. That flag to me represents a land where no particular church or religion can force you in, and where free men decide thier future and can actually benefit from their labor. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

If it doesn't stand for that NOW then it's our own damn fault and we need to do something about it. But it certainly is NOT the flags fault.
+1776

The flag is only a symbol of our government. If our government is evil, corrupt, murdering people around the world, etc then the flag will be associated with those ideas.
We must continue to fight to stop corruption at all levels of government. If we create a government that adheres to the Constitution, and common sense with a non-interventionist foreign policy, the flag would once again represent the idea of liberty in the minds of others.

[Anti Federalist]

The irony of this thread is that Bill Ayers isn't even stepping on the flag.. but the photo a couple posts below clearly shows Bush stepping on the flag.

Bush's ideology is much more dangerous than Ayers. Ayers is very extreme, yes, and I don't agree with all of the "alleged" goals of his group, but on the other hand they were trying to bring down an imperialist tyrannical empire.... Bush IS the imperialist tyrannical empire. We're comparing coffee beans to carbon molecules here. Weather Underground type organizations are never, EVER EVER going to kill nearly the amount of people nor take away as many liberties as the Bush ideology.

Yah, that.

Bill Ayers can't launch a carrier battle group and off a million people.

[sofia]

Bush's ideology is much more dangerous than Ayers. Ayers is very extreme, yes, and I don't agree with all of the "alleged" goals of his group, but on the other hand they were trying to bring down an imperialist tyrannical empire.... Bush IS the imperialist tyrannical empire. ......Weather Underground type organizations are never, EVER EVER going to kill nearly the amount of people nor take away as many liberties as the Bush ideology.

Haven't you figured out yet that Ayers and Bush serve the same masters? The "system" that Ayers was trying to bring down was constitutional America itself. That aligns him neatly with the goals of the global elites.

The opposition to the Viet Nam war was not based in their outrage over death and destruction. They opposed the war because the opponet happened to be communist.

Notice, how silent all these "anti war" lefties have become now that it's one of their own waging war.

As far as body count comparisons go, ask yourself, how many people will Obama, Ayers, and his handlers kill if and when they are able to institute martial law one day?

[dannno]

Haven't you figured out yet that Ayers and Bush serve the same masters? The "system" that Ayers was trying to bring down was constitutional America itself. That aligns him neatly with the goals of the global elites.

The opposition to the Viet Nam war was not based in their outrage over death and destruction. They opposed the war because the opponet happened to be communist.

Notice, how silent all these "anti war" lefties have become now that it's one of their own waging war.

As far as body count comparisons go, ask yourself, how many people will Obama, Ayers, and his handlers kill if and when they are able to institute martial law one day?

From what I've seen the individuals in the Weather Underground were against American imperialism because they were using force to steal resources from other countries.

The Weather Underground was infiltrated and discredited by the government, they weren't a project started by the government that they actually wanted to succeed.. that's where your story line kinda falls apart.

I'm not defending the organization as a whole by any means, but I do believe that there were a lot of well intentioned people in the organization who probably believed in freedom and saw American imperialism as the biggest threat to the world and were willing to join and extremist organization in order to stop it.

[LibertyEagle]

From what I've seen the individuals in the Weather Underground were against American imperialism because they were using force to steal resources from other countries.

The Weather Underground was infiltrated and discredited by the government, they weren't a project started by the government that they actually wanted to succeed.. that's where your story line kinda falls apart.

I'm not defending the organization as a whole by any means, but I do believe that there were a lot of well intentioned people in the organization who probably believed in freedom and saw American imperialism as the biggest threat to the world and were willing to join and extremist organization in order to stop it.

:eek:

A fine group of people you're defending, Dannno.

New York City Arson Attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground_Organization

:rolleyes:

Sickening.


Yah, that.

Bill Ayers can't launch a carrier battle group and off a million people.

I am just now realizing that I am in a totally different movement than some of you guys.

[dannno]

LE, what we're saying, is that since Bush Imperialism Doctrine has done a million+ times more damage and killed a million+ times more people than Weather Underground, then our hatred and focus should be more representative of this ratio.

[dannno]

:eek:

A fine group of people you're defending, Dannno.



I'm not defending the group, I'm defending certain individuals within the group who no doubt existed that were there to take out a much more dangerous element, American imperialism, than what they were trying to replace it with, a radical group of less than 100 people who don't have the resources to do anything very effective.

I agree that the ideology that some of the members were talking about was very dangerous, and it exists today in other forms, but as far as WU as a group, look where all that talk got them.. Not very far..

[LibertyEagle]

LE, what we're saying, is that since Bush Imperialism Doctrine has done a million+ times more damage and killed a million+ times more people than Weather Underground, then our hatred and focus should be more representative of this ratio.

No. It means you should be opposed to BOTH.

Bombing your own people is NOT acceptable. Regardless of who does it.

Damn. The next thing I'm going to hear is that you support Jane Fonda's actions in Hanoi.

Wouldn't Ron Paul be proud? NOT!!!!!!

[dannno]

No. It means you should be opposed to BOTH.

Bombing your own people is NOT acceptable. Regardless of who does it.

Damn. The next thing I'm going to hear is that you support Jane Fonda's actions in Hanoi.

Wouldn't Ron Paul be proud? NOT!!!!!!

I never said I supported their violence, I support some of the anti-imperialist views that they held because they are similar to mine as well as other people in this movement including Ron Paul... although I never go out advertising the WU or anything like that.. which is the point.. why put so much focus on this group when what they did was not one millionth of what our government has done?? They are a million times worse than WU, and I'm not exagerating, over a MILLION times worse!! I'm just trying to add some perspective here about why liberals don't take conservatives very seriously who go around yelling about the WU.. It's like yelling about the moth making all that noise outside when all of your neighbors are doing major construction...why do you even hear the moth?

[RevolutionSD]

Meet the man who launched Obama's Illinois senate campaign
who ghost wrote Obama's first book
who visited the White House 2 times already...

admitted communist...terrorist....cop killer...America hater....Bill Ayers

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Z5IE4BFBcPc/SB9G-geSrdI/AAAAAAAAB8k/kxPbxwZL_TY/s400/Ayers+flag.jpg

WHo TF cares about the damn flag?
We want FREEDOM, not fucking flags! Sorry for my language, but I'm sick and tired of the false patriotism and belief in things that do not exists. What does the flag represent? The government? Then, step on it all you want. It certainly does not represent freedom to me. That's an illusion.

And caring what Bill Ayers says or does has what relevance to your personal happiness?

[jmdrake]

The irony of this thread is that Bill Ayers isn't even stepping on the flag.. but the photo a couple posts below clearly shows Bush stepping on the flag.

Bush's ideology is much more dangerous than Ayers. Ayers is very extreme, yes, and I don't agree with all of the "alleged" goals of his group, but on the other hand they were trying to bring down an imperialist tyrannical empire.... Bush IS the imperialist tyrannical empire. We're comparing coffee beans to carbon molecules here. Weather Underground type organizations are never, EVER EVER going to kill nearly the amount of people nor take away as many liberties as the Bush ideology.

Speaking as the guy who posted the "Bush stepping on the flag" photo, I'm every bit as disturbed by Ayers as I am by Bush. For one think you can't really say that Ayers isn't stepping on the flag. It's impossible to tell. But for the other, Ayers very well may be an unrepentant murderer. We know that a weatherman bombing killed an innocent cop. We know that Ayers set off bombs. We know that Ayers won't say which bombings he participated in. Ayers defenders claim he only participated in the bombings that didn't kill anyone, but they offer no proof of that.

I posted the video of an informant saying he heard Ayers claim he wanted was willing to kill millions of patriots in the process of "re-educating" them. I'm sure some may say "Oh you just can't trust the FBI". But Ayers has never denied this to my knowledge. I believe things about Bush that I can't prove 100% too.

Of course let's not ignore the real story here. The Obama administration is thumbing its nose at the American people by claiming that it wasn't really "Bill Ayers" or "Jeremiah Wright" but just people with the "same name"! Frankly I could care less if Rev. Wright went to the whitehouse. He's never been accused of any actual crime. And his "chickens coming home to roost" comment was no different from Ron Paul's "9/11 is blowback" theory. But goodness, don't insult my intelligence by claiming this is some other person with the same unusual name. :rolleyes:

[jmdrake]

I never said I supported their violence, I support some of the anti-imperialist views that they held because they are similar to mine as well as other people in this movement including Ron Paul...

Was Bill Ayers against Soviet and Cuban imperialism or just American imperialism? :rolleyes: Is Bill Ayers against U.N. imperialism?

[Elwar]

Who MAKES YOU pledge allegiance to it? I venture to say that I am quite a lot older than you and NO ONE has EVER MADE ME.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/opinion/epaper/2009/10/06/a10a_pledge_edit_1007.html

The state of Florida requires children to stand and worship a false idol.

[Call Me V]

Who MAKES YOU pledge allegiance to it? I venture to say that I am quite a lot older than you and NO ONE has EVER MADE ME.

Tell that to the schools.

I have been suspended several times for not pledging along with other disciplinary actions.

[klamath]

I don't really care about the flag stepping deal but the people that try and defend Ayers are sure blinding themselves.
Bill Ayers just doesn't believe in American imperialism but he full well belived in soviet sino imperism. Now start looking up the number of people killed by the system of government and countries he was backing and to compare Bush to them and say he killed more is so far out there that the only reason I even respond is because I want those that are interested in RP not to think all RP people are that twisted.

[Light]

Wow, I can't believe there are people on this forums that actually support a communist nutjob that would have killed millions of people if he could. Its amazing that these same people are unwilling to work with Republicans, yet consider commies their ideological bosom buddies. What the heck happened to this place?

[dannno]

Can somebody point out a particular poster on this thread who is "supporting" the WU???

Nobody is that I can see, yet at least 10 people have said it. Absolutely incredible.

All I've said is that Bush is a million times worse because he's done a million times more damage. On top of that, one of Ron Paul's #1 issues is American Imperialism. WU's #1 issue was American Imperialism. Perspective, that's all we're saying.

[Light]

Ayers had not problem with Soviet imperialism or communist imperialism. Imperialism is imperialism. Just because Stalin and the Allies shared a common enemy, did not make him a friend or a good person. People too seldom forget that the number one mass murderering regimes and imperialism of the 20th-century was of the communist variety.

[dannno]

Was Bill Ayers against Soviet and Cuban imperialism or just American imperialism? :rolleyes: Is Bill Ayers against U.N. imperialism?

I'm not talking about Bill Ayers, I'm not defending Bill Ayers. I'm saying that a lot of the people in the WU were motivated by ending US Imperialism, not by creating a Communist Utopia THROUGH ending US imperialism.. US imperialism is what they were going after, and this group was serious about ending it.

[constituent]

Meh, the weather underground = walt hippeyland

Everyone sucks, imo.

[dannno]

weather underground (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6078589535743610981#)

The good and the bad.

The state was being violent against peaceful protesters. This wasn't the WU instigating shit, this was them fighting back. They felt they needed to end the war ASAP. They decided they needed to do what they could do to end it. That is the bulk of their story. Throw in some leftist ideology and that's all she wrote.

How anybody could compare this movement that killed a couple people to the neocon imperialist movement that has killed millions is beyond me.

[Justinjj1]

Ayers had not problem with Soviet imperialism or communist imperialism. Imperialism is imperialism. Just because Stalin and the Allies shared a common enemy, did not make him a friend or a good person. People too seldom forget that the number one mass murderering regimes and imperialism of the 20th-century was of the communist variety.


Please link me to any information that shows Ayers supported Soviet Imperialism. And Stalin was long dead whenever the WU was active.

[Light]

YouTube - FBI Agent Talking About Bill Ayers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRg9il_V328)

I know that Stalin was long dead by the time the neo-leftists emerged.

I seriously think this board is being invaded by socialists and leftists from othe sites. They pretty much admitted that they are doing this.

[dannno]

YouTube - FBI Agent Talking About Bill Ayers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRg9il_V328)

I know that Stalin was long dead by the time the neo-leftists emerged.

I seriously think this board is being invaded by socialists and leftists from othe sites. They pretty much admitted that they are doing this.

Stop citing some FBI freak from the real documentary I just posted as "evidence" of what they said in their meetings.


And are you saying that I am invading this board??

[Light]

Stop citing some FBI freak from the real documentary I just posted as "evidence" of what they said in their meetings.


And are you saying that I am invading this board??

So all people in the FBI are untrustworthy. Nice collectivism.

Also, I have been noticing it for a while.

[familydog]

Meet the man who launched Obama's Illinois senate campaign
who ghost wrote Obama's first book
who visited the White House 2 times already...

admitted communist...terrorist....cop killer...America hater....Bill Ayers

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Z5IE4BFBcPc/SB9G-geSrdI/AAAAAAAAB8k/kxPbxwZL_TY/s400/Ayers+flag.jpg

The symbol has lost all meaning to me. I really can't condemn the man for doing it.

Our natural rights do not come from a flag. Maybe the reason why rights have lost meaning to many people is they look to the flag to find them, rather than within themselves. When one looks to the flag to find their rights one looks to the government to find the same.

[dannno]

So all people in the FBI are untrustworthy. Nice collectivism.



I didn't say that, I just said that I watched a 2 hour documentary about the group, and that was the ONLY evidence I have seen of them talking about that kind of stuff. I'm not going to assume it happened just cause that asshat said so. He didn't say who said anything, he didn't mention that Ayers said anything in particular so it could have been agent provacateurs talking about killing people, and this guy was just talking about what his FBI buddies were saying.

I also told you that you'd be foolish to think that there weren't MORE agent provocateurs in the WU. Maybe Ayers was an agent provocateur, I have no friggin idea. You're still missing the point we're making. Nobody here is supporting there group and nobody here is supporting socialism... So please stop lying and saying that people here are doing that.

We're just saying that it's ridiculous to conflate this group into something that they are not.. they killed like 4 people or something.. Bush killed Millions.. American imperialism has killed hundreds of millions of people.. This group was FIGHTING that imperialism the best way that they knew how.

[LibertyEagle]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/opinion/epaper/2009/10/06/a10a_pledge_edit_1007.html

The state of Florida requires children to stand and worship a false idol.

Wrong.


state law that requires all students at least to stand for the pledge and requires parental permission to abstain from reciting the pledge.

That's from your own article. Thus, you can opt out of pledging.

Look, I don't agree with forcing anyone to pledge allegiance to the flag. And I certainly understand why some wouldn't want to do that; especially now. But, you have to understand that the flag means something different to a lot of Americans, than it does to you. To many of us, it doesn't equate to the scum in our government, but the principles upon which our country was founded. In the end, it's just a symbol. But, one I would prefer not to see someone stomping on. We get plenty of that in reality with the forementioned scum occupying our government.

[Light]

Every single day I am becoming increasingly disillusioned with this forum. I keep trying to find sites with a large community of constitutionalists and paleo-conservatives, however, they don't really exist on the internetz, or at least in large numbers.

And communists have killed more people than any American administration has.

[dannno]

And communists have killed more people than any American administration has.

That's very possible.. but if you watch the entire documentary you will find that the #1 issue for the members of WU was US Imperialism... the ideology came second as a solution. They were against the war for the same reasons we are against the illegal US wars today. I agree it was the wrong solution they came up with, but I give people points for recognizing the PROBLEM.. why?? Because most people never understood the problem of US Imperialism, and most people still do not.

Secondly, we are talking about the WU, they killed a few people, so why you are citing a statistic that Communism has killed tens of millions if not hundreds is beyond me..





Every single day I am becoming increasingly disillusioned with this forum. I keep trying to find sites with a large community of constitutionalists and paleo-conservatives, however, they don't really exist on the internetz, or at least in large numbers.


Do I have to say that I disagree with socialism and communism 58 times before you believe me, or do I have to say it 126 times?

I believe in the Constitution too, but I refuse to go around yelling about some group that didn't do jack shit and believed a lot of the same things we know today to be true about US imperialism. It's a waste of time and it would make me look ridiculous.

[dannno]

Wrong.



That's from your own article. Thus, you can opt out of pledging.

Look, I don't agree with forcing anyone to pledge allegiance to the flag. And I certainly understand why some wouldn't want to do that; especially now. But, you have to understand that the flag means something different to a lot of Americans, than it does to you. To many of us, it doesn't equate to the scum in our government, but the principles upon which our country was founded. In the end, it's just a symbol. But, one I would prefer not to see someone stomping on. We get plenty of that in reality with the forementioned scum occupying our government.

Wait, I thought the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist? Have I been misinformed?

[jmdrake]

Do I have to say that I disagree with socialism and communism 58 times before you believe me, or do I have to say it 126 times?

I believe in the Constitution too, but I refuse to go around yelling about some group that didn't do jack shit and believed a lot of the same things we know today to be true about US imperialism. It's a waste of time and it would make me look ridiculous.

Again I ask the question, did Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground have a problem with Soviet imperialism? None of the Ayers defenders seem willing to address this. If we're going to talk about how some group has the same values as "we" do or (worse) has the same values that Ron Paul does that question has to be answered. Finally, I would no more defend Bill Ayers than I would David Duke. And I see a lot of people running around saying he "has the same values" as "we do" also.

[Anti Federalist]

I am just now realizing that I am in a totally different movement than some of you guys.

Oh stop it. :mad:

You know me, have known me for years now, have talked to me numerous times.

You know what I'm about, or at least I've always thought you did.

I'm sorry I don't get worked up over a Bill Ayers character or for that matter, don't get teary eyed over a piece of cloth with some bright colors on it.

FFS, I've been openly calling for secession for how long now?

Do you think I would do that, and be completely serious about it and have still have any sentimental attachments to a flag or some arbitrary borders on map?

Is Bill Ayers a PoS lefty, yeah, sure he is, so what?

I'm less interested in how many Molotovs some lefty radical threw back in the 60's as I am more concerned about those same carrier battle groups mentioned, wiping out tens of thousands of people at a clip.

Who is the terrorist here?

Ron Paul asks the rhetorical question on the floor of the house, "What if the American people woke up to the fact that in almost every case the reasons for going to war were based on lies?"

I've asked that question to myself and don't like the answer, because if true, and I've come to understand it is, then we are, to the tune of millions of people since the end of WWII.

Millions dead, based on lies, and I'm supposed genuflect kindly on the flag that represents?

I want no part of that, and I've made it clear from day one that was how I felt about the issue in general, so nothing has changed on my end.

I find that a shitty comment to make to me.

[Justinjj1]

I know that Stalin was long dead by the time the neo-leftists emerged.

I seriously think this board is being invaded by socialists and leftists from othe sites. They pretty much admitted that they are doing this.

Sure, everyone who disagrees with you is a socialist or leftist.

[LibertyEagle]

Oh stop it. :mad:

You know me, have known me for years now, have talked to me numerous times.

You know what I'm about, or at least I've always thought you did.

I'm sorry I don't get worked up over a Bill Ayers character or for that matter, don't get teary eyed over a piece of cloth with some bright colors on it.

FFS, I've been openly calling for secession for how long now?

Do you think I would do that, and be completely serious about it and have still have any sentimental attachments to a flag or some arbitrary borders on map?

Is Bill Ayers a PoS lefty, yeah, sure he is, so what?

I'm less interested in how many Molotovs some lefty radical threw back in the 60's as I am more concerned about those same carrier battle groups mentioned, wiping out tens of thousands of people at a clip.

Who is the terrorist here?
BOTH. Why is it an either/or?


Ron Paul asks the rhetorical question on the floor of the house, "What if the American people woke up to the fact that in almost every case the reasons for going to war were based on lies?"

I've asked that question to myself and don't like the answer, because if true, and I've come to understand it is, then we are, to the tune of millions of people since the end of WWII.

Millions dead, based on lies, and I'm supposed genuflect kindly on the flag that represents?
Like we've already discussed, the flag represents something different to both of us.


I want no part of that, and I've made it clear from day one that was how I felt about the issue in general, so nothing has changed on my end.

I find that a shitty comment to make to me.
Yes, it was and I owe you an apology. I'm sorry. I know you are a patriot.

[Anti Federalist]

BOTH. Why is it an either/or?

It's not, just a question of degree.



Like we've already discussed, the flag represents something different to both of us.

Yes it does, I dragged it back into the equation in the heat of the moment, after agreeing to drop the subject.

For that I apologize.


Yes, it was and I owe you an apology. I'm sorry. I know you are a patriot.

As are you.

This is touchy subject no matter how you look at it.

Think nothing of it.;)

[Light]

I don't feel like arguing. There is no point in arguing, since both sides already have thier minds made up before the arguments are even brought forward. Its generally why I avoid debating altogether.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't feel like arguing. There is no point in arguing, since both sides already have thier minds made up before the arguments are even brought forward. Its generally why I avoid debating altogether.

I'd argue with that.

:rolleyes:;)

[klamath]

That's very possible.. but if you watch the entire documentary you will find that the #1 issue for the members of WU was US Imperialism... the ideology came second as a solution. They were against the war for the same reasons we are against the illegal US wars today. I agree it was the wrong solution they came up with, but I give people points for recognizing the PROBLEM.. why?? Because most people never understood the problem of US Imperialism, and most people still do not.

Secondly, we are talking about the WU, they killed a few people, so why you are citing a statistic that Communism has killed tens of millions if not hundreds is beyond me..





Do I have to say that I disagree with socialism and communism 58 times before you believe me, or do I have to say it 126 times?

I believe in the Constitution too, but I refuse to go around yelling about some group that didn't do jack shit and believed a lot of the same things we know today to be true about US imperialism. It's a waste of time and it would make me look ridiculous.

"We're comparing coffee beans to carbon molecules here. Weather Underground type organizations are never, EVER EVER going to kill nearly the amount of people nor take away as many liberties as the Bush ideology."

I believe this post of yours is what got people comparing numbers of dead, Danno.
I know you isolate the weather underground from the general Communist world movement lead by the Soviets but in my mind without a doubt they were working with the aid of some of the most murderous regimes in the world. I grew up in the '70's and like many on this forums today I was very political as a teenager. I read, listened to talk shows(It wasn't right wing radio in thoses days but left wing bay area stations) all world shortwave broadcasts. I would listen to Radio Moscow for hours, VOA, AFR NHK tokio and all the countries in between for news of World events and opinion from all prospectives. What came out real clear was to listen to Radio Moscow's spin of a news event and then hear radical left callers repeating word for word what Radio Moscow had broadcast.
In my mind WU and Soviet imperialism were one in the same and the weather underground was only part of the communist killing machine. That does not mean that some of the young people that got into it didn't believe it was an organization only to fight the vietnam war, american interventionism and for civil rights for American blacks but they didn't read this part of the mission statement of the WU;
"The goals is the destruction of U.S. imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world communism. Winning state power in the U.S. will occur as a result of the military forces of the U.S. overextending themselves around the world and being defeated piecemeal; struggle within the U.S. will be a vital part of this process, but when the revolution triumphs in the U.S. it will have been made by the people of the whole world. . . .".

The fact that Bill Ayers is now a common visitor to the whitehouse makes a person wonder whether the imperialistic wars going on under Obama are not now the imperialistic wars of the communist left.