For those that are pushing Johnson and others over RP, be warned

[klamath]

I am starting to notice a trend here. It is one thing to look at Johnson and others as potential candidates if RP does Not run however if RP runs and you people are pushing Johnson and others over RP you are going to see a bloodbath like you have never seen.
Get over this horsesh*t of the more candidates that run the better. As in any compaign you will be pitting one against the other and the different camps will tear each other apart. If you didn't get anything else from the RP 08 campaign those that follow RP do not forgive. There is still vitriol hate for all those that ran against RP in 08. Every little slight is remembered and cataloged, from media personalities to the other candidates. This isn't really a good thing but that is the way it is with the average RP supporter.

I for one will be tearing Johnson apart if he runs against RP. Anybody that thinks RP is not presidential enough for the average American yet thinks Johnson with his goffy glasses, his I, I, I, I speech at the rally for the republic, cheating on his wife and a history of hard brain cell killing drug use in his younger years, is, Get real!
Ventura who made his name as a WWF person, a sport that is held in the most contempt by the average american, as any out there. Ha, give me a break!
If RP runs this next time it will be to win not to just try and pass on his message like the last time as he is already hitting Iowa and SC. He never set up his campaign in 08 to win and was overwhelmed by the money and support but didn't have the campaign staff to change from a ideas campaign to a winning campaign. RP is loyal to his people which is a virtue and a drawback as he wouldn't fire the people he had.
I have mixed feeling on RP running myself but if he does I will be backing him to the fullest and will tear.
If you think that Huckabee, Romney Thompson people are held in contempt by the strong RP supporters wait until you are a turncoat and you will see real contempt that will never heal after the election. Way to split the liberty movement into a million pieces.
Chances are that whomever gets nominated will be defeated by Obama unless Obama really really screws up.

[ClayTrainor]

Ron is the only candidate that I'm interested in supporting in 2012. I won't be that motivated for anyone like Johnson, Ventura or whoever takes the helm of the libertarian party. I probably won't even really pay attention to the race if Ron does not run.

It's not about elections for me though, it's about the educational awakening. Getting Ron in the debates is key to waking a large number of people up, and I'm sure the 2008 debates were an awakening of sorts for many of us here. If we get a large number of "libertarian" candidates into the debates, it will only serve to saturate our message and make it appear "right wing". I like the idea of running multiple candidates in 2012 less and less, the more i think about it, though i could be wrong.

We need Ron Paul to run, so he can challenge the establishment one last time and call out the neo-cons who now wear libertarian clothing.

[constituent]

Only on ronpaulforums.com would "more liberty candidates = more liberty exposure" be considered problematic.

What you seem to be missing, is that if the republican debates are swarmed with liberty candidates, the message the viewers take away from the debate will be pro-liberty. The anti-liberty, pro-war camp won't be able to just speak over two or three candidates supporting "our" message, with "our" support.

Tell me again how this is a bad thing?

[Krugerrand]

Only on ronpaulforums.com would "more liberty candidates = more liberty exposure" be considered problematic.

What you seem to be missing, is that if the republican debates are swarmed with liberty candidates, the message the viewers take away from the debate will be pro-liberty. The anti-liberty, pro-war camp won't be able to just speak over two or three candidates supporting "our" message, with "our" support.

Tell me again how this is a bad thing?

Yes and no. If Guliani had not dropped out of the primaries, there is no way McCain would have taken the nomination. They were splitting the liberal side of the GOP. There is a point in the primaries where - yes - having more similar minded folk is helpful. This is especially true of early debates. However - once the votes start rolling, like-minded voters do the best when their votes are concentrated on a single candidate.

[constituent]

Yes and no. If Guliani had not dropped out of the primaries, there is no way McCain would have taken the nomination. They were splitting the liberal side of the GOP. There is a point in the primaries where - yes - having more similar minded folk is helpful. This is especially true of early debates. However - once the votes start rolling, like-minded voters do the best when their votes are concentrated on a single candidate.

Sounds like a bridge to cross when we get there.

;) :)

[ClayTrainor]

Only on ronpaulforums.com would more liberty candidates = more liberty exposure be considered problematic.

Oh what a bunch of nuts there are here... :rolleyes: :p



What you seem to be missing, is that if the republican debates are swarmed with liberty candidates, the message the viewers take away from the debate will be pro-liberty.

I'm concerned about saturation and distortion, though i concede that you have a valid point here. I am split on this issue. :o



The anti-liberty, pro-war camp won't be able to just speak over two or three candidates w/ supporting "our" message.

Tell me again how this is a bad thing?

It could over-saturate certain aspects of our message, and allow the media to distort them as "right wing ideology". It is a legitimate concern, in terms of marketing our message. I think there are going to be a lot of neo-cons talking the libertarian game in 2012 (palin, Romney, etc.). They are going to be trying to hijack our support, and the more saturated our message is the better chance they have.

The problem for me is filtering out the fat. I have yet to find other liberty candidates, outside of our select few, whom i trust, that I'd be willing to support for a presidential run someday.

Johnson is the most qualified alternative to Ron Paul that has potential to run in 2012, and I feel i barely know him, despite what i've read and heard on this forum. Rand, Schiff and all these guys aren't ready to run for president yet, and i think it would be a mistake if they did, but that's just me. They only get seated into the senate in 2011, if they win their senate seats, so them running for president would best be put off until 2016.

[constituent]

Oh what a bunch of nuts there are here... :rolleyes: :p


You'll get no disagreement from me there... ;) :D

[Krugerrand]

If you didn't get anything else from the RP 08 campaign those that follow RP do not forgive. There is still vitriol hate for all those that ran against RP in 08. Every little slight is remembered and cataloged, from media personalities to the other candidates. This isn't really a good thing but that is the way it is with the average RP supporter.

Fair warning ... Let's remember what happened when Bob Barr turned down the Ron Paul group endorsement opportunity. That was not a pretty day.

That said, I'll shamelessly plug my push for John Mackey in 2012 IF Ron Paul chooses not to run.

[constituent]

Johnson is the most qualified alternative to Ron Paul that has potential to run in 2012, and I feel i barely know him, despite what i've read and heard on this forum.

FWIW, Johnson won't make it to the big game anyway. There are issues concerning his use of NM state funds and sweetheart construction contracts, these represent his achilles' heal so to speak, and will be used by any opponent to destroy him.

I'd like to see him get his message out in the meanwhile though, and would like to think that those who supported RP in the past would be a great help in doing just that... unless we start a witch hunt and burn them all at the stake as anti-RP, anti-"teh movement" or whatever.

[Dr.3D]

~Snip
The problem for me is filtering out the fat. ~Snip

It would probably be easier to just let the fat float to the surface and then skim it off. Or after cooling, it may be taken off as a solid chunk. ;)

[SWATH]

Going with Johnson, or almost anybody else besides Ron Paul at this point would be like starting all over again from nearly scratch but with a less inspiring candidate.

[Krugerrand]

The problem for me is filtering out the fat. I have yet to find other liberty candidates, outside of our select few, whom i trust, that I'd be willing to support for a presidential run someday.

Johnson is the most qualified alternative to Ron Paul that has potential to run in 2012, and I feel i barely know him, despite what i've read and heard on this forum. Rand, Schiff and all these guys aren't ready to run for president yet, and i think it would be a mistake if they did, but that's just me. They only get seated into the senate in 2011, if they win their senate seats, so them running for president would best be put off until 2016.

This is why John Mackey is such a good choice. His qualifying executive experience is from the business world. He carries no previous political baggage/scars. He's on record as wanting to vote for Ron Paul in the general election had he been on the ballot. From what I understand, he's a general supporter of Austrian Economics.

[TonySutton]

I am starting to notice a trend here. It is one thing to look at Johnson and others as potential candidates if RP does Not run however if RP runs and you people are pushing Johnson and others over RP you are going to see a bloodbath like you have never seen.
Get over this horsesh*t of the more candidates that run the better. As in any compaign you will be pitting one against the other and the different camps will tear each other apart. If you didn't get anything else from the RP 08 campaign those that follow RP do not forgive. There is still vitriol hate for all those that ran against RP in 08. Every little slight is remembered and cataloged, from media personalities to the other candidates. This isn't really a good thing but that is the way it is with the average RP supporter.

I for one will be tearing Johnson apart if he runs against RP. Anybody that thinks RP is not presidential enough for the average American yet thinks Johnson with his goffy glasses, his I, I, I, I speech at the rally for the republic, cheating on his wife and a history of hard brain cell killing drug use in his younger years, is, Get real!
Ventura who made his name as a WWF person, a sport that is held in the most contempt by the average american, as any out there. Ha, give me a break!
If RP runs this next time it will be to win not to just try and pass on his message like the last time as he is already hitting Iowa and SC. He never set up his campaign in 08 to win and was overwhelmed by the money and support but didn't have the campaign staff to change from a ideas campaign to a winning campaign. RP is loyal to his people which is a virtue and a drawback as he wouldn't fire the people he had.
I have mixed feeling on RP running myself but if he does I will be backing him to the fullest and will tear.
If you think that Huckabee, Romney Thompson people are held in contempt by the strong RP supporters wait until you are a turncoat and you will see real contempt that will never heal after the election. Way to split the liberty movement into a million pieces.
Chances are that whomever gets nominated will be defeated by Obama unless Obama really really screws up.

Pay attention now "COMPETITION IS GOOD!"

'nuff sed...

[AuH20]

Gary Johnson is a poor torch carrier to the Ron Paul Legacy. The landscape is pretty barren if you don't count his son.

[Icymudpuppy]

I have sent a message directly to Ron Paul asking for leadership. I have directly asked him to tell us, his supporters, if he intends to run again in 2012, or if he intends to pass the torch. We need to start planning for one or the other now. If he intends to run, we can end all this bickering now, and galvanize behind him. If he intends to pass the torch and endorse another, we can search for the best torch carrier and galvanize behind them with Ron Pauls endorsement. Who knows, it may be a member of these very forums.

[Krugerrand]

I have sent a message directly to Ron Paul asking for leadership. I have directly asked him to tell us, his supporters, if he intends to run again in 2012, or if he intends to pass the torch. We need to start planning for one or the other now. If he intends to run, we can end all this bickering now, and galvanize behind him. If he intends to pass the torch and endorse another, we can search for the best torch carrier and galvanize behind them with Ron Pauls endorsement. Who knows, it may be a member of these very forums.

Even something to the tune of "I haven't ruled out such a possiblity and cannot give it consideration until xxxx" would be helpful.

[klamath]

Many of you say it is great to have many candidates and that is all fine until the campaigning starts. Let a little slur against one or the other happen (which will) and the wars will be on. Take a question in a debate about the right and wrongness of abortion happen between Johnson and RP and the sh*t will hit the fan.
Fred Thompson agreed with very much of what RP said besides the war but he made a little joke about RP and people still post that clip anytime someone mentions something good about Thompson.

[AuH20]

Many of you say it is great to have many candidates and that is all fine until the campaigning starts. Let a little slur against one or the other happen (which will) and the wars will be on. Take a question in a debate about the right and wrongness of abortion happen between Johnson and RP and the sh*t will hit the fan.
Fred Thompson agreed with very much of what RP said besides the war but he made a little joke about RP and people still post that clip anytime someone mentions something good about Thompson.

don't forget open borders as well.

[klamath]

I have sent a message directly to Ron Paul asking for leadership. I have directly asked him to tell us, his supporters, if he intends to run again in 2012, or if he intends to pass the torch. We need to start planning for one or the other now. If he intends to run, we can end all this bickering now, and galvanize behind him. If he intends to pass the torch and endorse another, we can search for the best torch carrier and galvanize behind them with Ron Pauls endorsement. Who knows, it may be a member of these very forums.
This thread adresses those that are pushing others to run against RP

[Meatwasp]

This thread adresses those that are pushing others to run against RP

True Ron Paul supporters will never be pushed into voting for anyone other than Paul

[rich34]

To the more the merrier crowd...I agree with that position when it comes to all these senate and house races. We do need to fill as many of those spots as possible, but when it comes to the presidential race if our guy Ron Paul runs for president then everyone else that somewhat clings to his movement needs to get the fuck out of his way!! It's hard to say who all here is really diehards from 2007 and who's the more johnnycomelately crowd that are trying to divide and conquer. If Ron Paul decides to run again this should be a rerun of 07,08, except bigger!

[klamath]

To the more the merrier crowd...I agree with that position when it comes to all these senate and house races. We do need to fill as many of those spots as possible, but when it comes to the presidential race if our guy Ron Paul runs for president then everyone else that somewhat clings to his movement needs to get the fuck out of his way!! It's hard to say who all here is really diehards from 2007 and who's the more johnnycomelately crowd that are trying to divide and conquer. If Ron Paul decides to run again this should be a rerun of 07,08, except bigger!

+10

[tajitj]

I knew this kind of crap would start, the only divide is when characters like this poster create one.

They like the Baldwin bashers and Barr bashers live in this little internet/chat room/forum world and have only there narrow interests in mind.

As a liberty lover I will donate to both, support both, bash neither(unless the actual candidate is bashing the other) and go on hoping one ends up dropping out endorsing the other.

[aji]

I hope that Ron runs in 2012. If not, I think he will endorse someone in his place.
Remember it is the message and the actions.

While I definitely prefer Ron Paul over others, at this point our government is so corrupt that as long as a candidate has Constitutional views, and Ron Paul ideals we will be heading in the proper direction.

[RevolutionSD]

I am starting to notice a trend here. It is one thing to look at Johnson and others as potential candidates if RP does Not run however if RP runs and you people are pushing Johnson and others over RP you are going to see a bloodbath like you have never seen.
Get over this horsesh*t of the more candidates that run the better. As in any compaign you will be pitting one against the other and the different camps will tear each other apart. If you didn't get anything else from the RP 08 campaign those that follow RP do not forgive. There is still vitriol hate for all those that ran against RP in 08. Every little slight is remembered and cataloged, from media personalities to the other candidates. This isn't really a good thing but that is the way it is with the average RP supporter.

I for one will be tearing Johnson apart if he runs against RP. Anybody that thinks RP is not presidential enough for the average American yet thinks Johnson with his goffy glasses, his I, I, I, I speech at the rally for the republic, cheating on his wife and a history of hard brain cell killing drug use in his younger years, is, Get real!
Ventura who made his name as a WWF person, a sport that is held in the most contempt by the average american, as any out there. Ha, give me a break!
If RP runs this next time it will be to win not to just try and pass on his message like the last time as he is already hitting Iowa and SC. He never set up his campaign in 08 to win and was overwhelmed by the money and support but didn't have the campaign staff to change from a ideas campaign to a winning campaign. RP is loyal to his people which is a virtue and a drawback as he wouldn't fire the people he had.
I have mixed feeling on RP running myself but if he does I will be backing him to the fullest and will tear.
If you think that Huckabee, Romney Thompson people are held in contempt by the strong RP supporters wait until you are a turncoat and you will see real contempt that will never heal after the election. Way to split the liberty movement into a million pieces.
Chances are that whomever gets nominated will be defeated by Obama unless Obama really really screws up.

Paul and Johnson are both going to run.
Their theory is that better to have 2 libertarians in the field of candidates than just one.

Since I don't believe in government or elections, I have no comment on this.

[AuH20]

Since I don't believe in government or elections, I have no comment on this.

Agreed. Criminal organizations will never surrender their power willingly.

[klamath]

I knew this kind of crap would start, the only divide is when characters like this poster create one.

They like the Baldwin bashers and Barr bashers live in this little internet/chat room/forum world and have only there narrow interests in mind.

As a liberty lover I will donate to both, support both, bash neither(unless the actual candidate is bashing the other) and go on hoping one ends up dropping out endorsing the other.
You haven't seen divided yet if you run people against RP in the future.:mad:
It takes about 20 or 30% of the vote to win in iowa and NH. If RP is able to double his votes to 20 percent in Iowa he could win. If RP takes 10% and Johnson takes 10% and Huckabee takes 19% we all lost.
After the first two or three primaries the game is over for the runner ups. Droping out will not help anyone after that point and NOBODY is going to drop out before the first or second primaries.
We have a pretty narrow slice of the republican electorate now but it is growing. If we divide our slice up we have lost.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Strategically speaking, I would think stacking the early debates with a slate of Liberty Candidates, who then withdraw and endorse, would be beneficial...

[klamath]

Paul and Johnson are both going to run.
Their theory is that better to have 2 libertarians in the field of candidates than just one.

Since I don't believe in government or elections, I have no comment on this.

Do you have a source for Pauls theory to have two running? If they both agreed to this then neither is running to win again but just trying to spread the message. If that is the case then they can spread the message in the debates without my money.

[klamath]

Is Johnson going to be drawing votes from Huckabee voters? No. they wil be from RP. Is Johnson going to be drawing votes from Romney's voters. No. He will be drawing votes from RP voters.
As can be seen on these RON PAUL forums if Johnson runs a percentage of the RP people are going for Johnson because "RP is to old and whinney" That percentage could mean the difference between runner up and winner in Iowa and NH.
Never thought I would see the day.

[LibertyMage]

When you have one person arguing against the establishment, he is easily railed against as a kook.

When you have half of the candidates running on a pro-liberty platform the message becomes mainstream.

Mainstream messages win elections.

[Dieseler]

I'm 41 years old.
That's too old to start over so it's,
RON PAUL for the Long Haul.

[klamath]

When you have one person arguing against the establishment, he is easily railed against as a kook.

When you have half of the candidates running on a pro-liberty platform the message becomes mainstream.

Mainstream messages win elections.

Almost all of the Republican candidates were speaking out against government spending and big government in 08. I would say Fred Thompson was every bit as much a liberty candidate as Johnson.

[constituent]

Almost all of the Republican candidates were speaking out against government spending and big government in 08. I would say Fred Thompson was every bit as much a liberty candidate as Johnson.

Care to fill me in on Fred Thompson's policy concerning the war on drugs?

[christagious]

Fair warning ... Let's remember what happened when Bob Barr turned down the Ron Paul group endorsement opportunity. That was not a pretty day.

That said, I'll shamelessly plug my push for John Mackey in 2012 IF Ron Paul chooses not to run.

I'm surprised more people here aren't talking about Mackey. I kind of like the idea of that.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Chances are that whomever gets nominated will be defeated by Obama unless Obama really really screws up.

Obama allready screwed up:

TARP/Bailouts
Massive unemployment still growing - even by gvmt "doctored" numbers.
INFLATION and Gvmt Debt beyond anything in the past.
The health care bill is going to raise premiums and allready strained health care costs. It's going to completely screw seniors and they know it. Listen to call in's on Washington Journal - used to be be about 50/50 and they alternate D, R, I callers evenly. Now it's 90+ percent against and 10% for.
Cap and trade "will make utility rates skyrocket".

and the left saying "Obamamania is OVER!"

With that track record, personally effecting every man, woman and child in a down economy, the only ones that will vote for the guy again are the ultra left and career welfare recipients.

-t

[sofia]

I did not know that Johnson was an adulterer. Thanks for the heads up.

For those wacko libertarians who say "His personal life should not be an issue."....I say, give me a break!

If a man's wife can't trust him to uphold his marriage vows, how can I trust him to keep his campaign vows....especially when political pressure build to compromise.

People who sneak around, lie, and betray their spouses are telling you who they really are.

They will betray you too.

STAY AWAY!

[tajitj]

Like I told the poster of this thread, if we see people start to push a Michelle Bachmann or Jim Demint candidacy I am with him, they should get lost. I for one think foreign policy is the glue to our movement, second is personal freedom like Patriot Act stuff.

If we push someone who openly supports that, I'm will be one of those bashers.

I only accepted Barr because he openly admited fault and changed his postions, but someone who does not completely disavow themselves from positions like that have no business being touted here.

[specsaregood]

One thing is for certain: The Republican Presidential Primaries next time around will be PACKED. We had 10 last time? That stage is gonna be even more crowded.

[tremendoustie]

It's about principles to me. I will not support an unprincipled candidate just because they're somewhat better than the other guy. Ron Paul is just about the only candidate I can think of who meets this criteria, but I am open to the possibility of being pleasantly surprised.

[tajitj]

I did not know that Johnson was an adulterer. Thanks for the heads up.

For those wacko libertarians who say "His personal life should not be an issue."....I say, give me a break!

If a man's wife can't trust him to uphold his marriage vows, how can I trust him to keep his campaign vows....especially when political pressure build to compromise.

People who sneak around, lie, and betray their spouses are telling you who they really are.

They will betray you too.

STAY AWAY!

And YOU know what went on between Gary Johnson and his wife in the privacy of their home?
Sometimes people amaze me on how they judge a person's private life.

Mark Sanford is toast, I got it, total BS move and lack of character how all that happened.

But I don't know anything about Johnson's divorce and we have alot of people bringing it up without any real facts about how it went down.

[Oyate]

you are going to see a bloodbath like you have never seen.

Let's just clarify here. By blood bath we mean a very large bath and many many small ones full of YOUR blood. First we will surround you and cut you with little knives. We will start at your scalp and not stop to the souls if your feet. Then we will get very large knives and begin to reduce you to large pieces. Then we will pick up medium sized knives to reduce the pieces to smaller pieces and then finally we will press the pieces to get every list little bit of blood out of you.

And then we are going to bathe in it, thence satisfying the technical requirements. We could save a step or two and make it more efficient, particularly the bit about starting with the small knives but we figured for the extra time spent it would have twice as much impact as an artistic statement. Trust us, it will play way better on Youtube this way.

Wells, best of luck in the Johnson campaign! See you real soon!

[Dieseler]

Let's just clarify here. By blood bath we mean a very large bath and many many small ones full of YOUR blood. First we will surround you and cut you with little knives. We will start at your scalp and not stop to the souls if your feet. Then we will get very large knives and begin to reduce you to large pieces. Then we will pick up medium sized knives to reduce the pieces to smaller pieces and then finally we will press the pieces to get every list little bit of blood out of you.

And then we are going to bathe in it, thence satisfying the technical requirements. We could save a step or two and make it more efficient, particularly the bit about starting with the small knives but we figured for the extra time spent it would have twice as much impact as an artistic statement. Trust us, it will play way better on Youtube this way.

Wells, best of luck in the Johnson campaign! See you real soon!

:D

[klamath]

Care to fill me in on Fred Thompson's policy concerning the war on drugs?
I am against the war on drugs but talk to me when I am not so pissed at the smell of pot and pot smoke drifting onto my private property making members of my family sick.
Now back to the thread topic.

[klamath]

Let's just clarify here. By blood bath we mean a very large bath and many many small ones full of YOUR blood. First we will surround you and cut you with little knives. We will start at your scalp and not stop to the souls if your feet. Then we will get very large knives and begin to reduce you to large pieces. Then we will pick up medium sized knives to reduce the pieces to smaller pieces and then finally we will press the pieces to get every list little bit of blood out of you.

And then we are going to bathe in it, thence satisfying the technical requirements. We could save a step or two and make it more efficient, particularly the bit about starting with the small knives but we figured for the extra time spent it would have twice as much impact as an artistic statement. Trust us, it will play way better on Youtube this way.

Wells, best of luck in the Johnson campaign! See you real soon!

I guess I am missing the point. I suspect it is sacasm or a joke beings that I am not on the Johnson campaign but the paul campaign.
When I say bloodbath it is an old politcal term that describes a campaign so bitter the parties never unite when it is over.

[Romulus]

i knew this would divide the movement..

pretty sad

[klamath]

i knew this would divide the movement..

pretty sad
You run somebody against RP from the RP ranks themselves and you bet it will divide the movement.

[klamath]

Like I told the poster of this thread, if we see people start to push a Michelle Bachmann or Jim Demint candidacy I am with him, they should get lost. I for one think foreign policy is the glue to our movement, second is personal freedom like Patriot Act stuff.

If we push someone who openly supports that, I'm will be one of those bashers.

I only accepted Barr because he openly admited fault and changed his postions, but someone who does not completely disavow themselves from positions like that have no business being touted here.
When people on these forums start trying to run Demint and Bachmann against RP I will be all with you.
If RP doesn't run then it is an open field to each his own.

[constituent]

You run somebody against RP from the RP ranks themselves and you bet it will divide the movement.

meh, if i'm supporting one it won't take much additional effort to support another. IMO, this could be a really good thing if folks like yourself will let it.

If you keep insisting that it will divide "the movment," then I fear you run the risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophesy.


I am against the war on drugs


I'm glad to know that, but I asked you for Fred Thompson's position in response to your claiming that to you he was as libertarian as Gary Johnson...

You don't have to provide me with an answer though, we both know what it is. ;) :)

[klamath]

meh, if i'm supporting one it won't take much additional effort to support another. IMO, this could be a really good thing if folks like yourself will let it.

If you keep insisting that it will divide "the movment," then I fear you run the risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Did you max out in donating to RP? Did you max out on donating to all the rp grassroots projects supporting the RP campaign?
I know I spent everything I could afford and a little more sending to RP.

[Elwar]

Personally, for me it's more about principles than the man. When it comes down to it in an election where I can't vote for either candidate, I vote for myself because I believe in my libertarian principles.

I would vote for any principled libertarian that is going to vote no every time against big government. His name does not matter to me, his height, weight, age, appearance, personal history or hair color...irrelivant.

I have voted Libertarian as my presidential pick for the past decade up until last year when I wrote in Ron Paul's name. And if Ron Paul hadn't run, I would have wrote in my name once again. I would rather have Ron Paul running things than myself.

I am one of those "evil doers" that is advocating multiple liberty candidates early on. My ideal time to find the leader is at the Ames Straw Poll. At that point I hope that there is a clear leader and the other candidates will one by one drop out and endorse that leader. If Ron Paul is running, the most likely scenario would be that Ron Paul does very well in the straw poll and Johnson comes in respectively down the line and the others are further down the ladder. The others start dropping out throughout August and then within a month when it's critical for Ron Paul, Johnson drops out and endorses him (maybe even in middle of the debates).

I would imagine that since the candidates will be starting things early, we should have a pretty good idea by the summer of 2011, who the candidate of choice will be.

Looking at the political landscape when I think of libertarian elected officials in the US I think:
governor - Gary Johnson
congressman - Ron Paul
mayor - Ed Thompson
state representative - Don Gorman
I would vote for any one of them for any election.

As for attacking other candidates...Gary Johnson ran a 100% positive campaign for both of his terms as governor not mentioning his opponent once. I hope his supporters follow that lead.

2011 is a long ways away and politics aint beanbag. I don't think we should put all of our eggs into one basket.

[klamath]

meh, if i'm supporting one it won't take much additional effort to support another. IMO, this could be a really good thing if folks like yourself will let it.

If you keep insisting that it will divide "the movment," then I fear you run the risk of creating a self-fulfilling prophesy.




I'm glad to know that, but I asked you for Fred Thompson's position in response to your claiming that to you he was as libertarian as Gary Johnson...

You don't have to provide me with an answer though, we both know what it is. ;) :)

Never used the word libertarian. Sorry. Sorry also that it isn't my number one issue.

[constituent]

Did you max out in donating to RP? Did you max out on donating to all the rp grassroots projects supporting the RP campaign?

To the degree that I could and/or saw the project(s) as worthy of my time/resources. Most importantly, if I'd have billed for the time spent promoting RP on my own (a "donation in kind" so to speak), i'd be in trouble for violating campaign finance laws.



I know I spent everything I could afford and a little more sending to RP.

Me too, once bitten twice shy as they say. My support of any candidates in the future will probably have an upward limit capped at "go team, go." ;) :)

[constituent]

Never used the word libertarian. Sorry. Sorry also that it isn't my number one issue.


Sorry, "liberty candidate," should have been more precise.



Almost all of the Republican candidates were speaking out against government spending and big government in 08. I would say Fred Thompson was every bit as much a liberty candidate as Johnson.

Silly semantics...



Sorry also that it isn't my number one issue.

Hell, why would it be? There's only a few million of your fellow countrymen that've been put in cages over it. It's really not THAT big of a deal... :rolleyes:

[evilfunnystuff]

as long as they publicly endorse ron before the first primary and show him no disrespect they will get my support my money wont go to any campaign other than rons as long as hes in it though

providing of course the speculation he may run is true and we arent gonna know that for a while

[klamath]

Personally, for me it's more about principles than the man. When it comes down to it in an election where I can't vote for either candidate, I vote for myself because I believe in my libertarian principles.

I would vote for any principled libertarian that is going to vote no every time against big government. His name does not matter to me, his height, weight, age, appearance, personal history or hair color...irrelivant.

I have voted Libertarian as my presidential pick for the past decade up until last year when I wrote in Ron Paul's name. And if Ron Paul hadn't run, I would have wrote in my name once again. I would rather have Ron Paul running things than myself.

I am one of those "evil doers" that is advocating multiple liberty candidates early on. My ideal time to find the leader is at the Ames Straw Poll. At that point I hope that there is a clear leader and the other candidates will one by one drop out and endorse that leader. If Ron Paul is running, the most likely scenario would be that Ron Paul does very well in the straw poll and Johnson comes in respectively down the line and the others are further down the ladder. The others start dropping out throughout August and then within a month when it's critical for Ron Paul, Johnson drops out and endorses him (maybe even in middle of the debates).

I would imagine that since the candidates will be starting things early, we should have a pretty good idea by the summer of 2011, who the candidate of choice will be.

Looking at the political landscape when I think of libertarian elected officials in the US I think:
governor - Gary Johnson
congressman - Ron Paul
mayor - Ed Thompson
state representative - Don Gorman
I would vote for any one of them for any election.

As for attacking other candidates...Gary Johnson ran a 100% positive campaign for both of his terms as governor not mentioning his opponent once. I hope his supporters follow that lead.

2011 is a long ways away and politics aint beanbag. I don't think we should put all of our eggs into one basket.

If Gary Johnson and others ran with the notion that if they weren't getting any traction before the Iowa an NH primaries then it would be a good thing if we all pretty much knew it.
For a man that used I as many times as Johnson did at the RFTR, I don't think he will drop out before the first primaries. If he doesn't state that he is going to drop out and endorse RP before the primaries then I have to assume he isn't and will be campaigning hard against him, otherwise not.
Very very few candidates drop out before the first primaries and those that do do so because they flat out run out of money and can't even afford to travel.

[Elwar]

If Gary Johnson and others ran with the notion that if they weren't getting any traction before the Iowa an NH primaries then it would be a good thing if we all pretty much knew it.
A man that used I as many times as Johnson did at the RFTR, I don't thing he will drop out before the first primaries. If he doesn't state that he is going to drop out and endorse RP before the primaries then I have to assume he isn't and will be campaigning hard against him, otherwise not.

Ya, that's really a campaign motivator.

[constituent]

then I have to assume he isn't and will be campaigning hard against him, otherwise not.

So then to be clear, it is you who will insist that "the movement" be divided?

[Elwar]

From the actions of Ron Paul and Gary Johnson at the convention it appeared that Ron Paul was purposefully setting up Johnson for 2012. It was known by then that Johnson was looking at a 2012 run and I'm sure Paul knew it.

If Ron Paul is going to join the race I highly doubt that they won't have a sit down at some point early on.

[Mini-Me]

Pay attention now "COMPETITION IS GOOD!"

'nuff sed...

Although I have no strong opinion on the thread issue, I think your argument is highly flawed here:

In the free market, there's pretty much no such thing as too much competition, primarily because every consumer receives exactly what they vote for (and the more competition there is, the more each competitor must try to please the consumer in order to get such a vote).

However, in a winner-takes-all environment based on a plurality vote, competitors with only minor differences between them will split the vote of otherwise like-minded voters...and this can allow everyone involved to receive someone very undesirable instead of ANY of the people they like. The vote-splitting effect is a known problem with plurality voting, and it's precisely why our political system degenerated into a "lowest common denominator" two-party system almost immediately after the country's Founding.

If you're running to win, you want to stand out from the crowd. If you're running to educate, it might help to have several like-minded people sharing the stage with you as "message force multipliers." (;)) Then again, this can go the other way too, as Clay said: The more other candidates sound like Ron Paul, the more his message could be mistaken for typical Republican bullshit.

[klamath]

So then to be clear, it is you who will insist that "the movement" be divided?

obviously you and I have a different notion of what divsion is. If you think that running Johnson against RP and campaigning for Johnson is not dividing the movement then I don't know what is.
Maybe we will be together still on core issues and local candidates but as far as the presidential candidates are concerned Yes we will be divided. When RP loses the Iowa cacuses by the same amount of votes that Johnson pulls I will have no love for Johnson and Will NOT vote for him.

[constituent]

obviously you and I have a different notion of what divsion is. If you think that running Johnson against RP and campaigning for Johnson is not dividing the movement then I don't know what is.

Here, let me show you how I define attempts at "division," divisive behavior.



I am starting to notice a trend here. It is one thing to look at Johnson and others as potential candidates if RP does Not run however if RP runs and you people are pushing Johnson and others over RP you are going to see a bloodbath like you have never seen.

"you people," eh? I remember a couple of weeks ago, you wrote a very lucid post about the need to carefully consider what we say, how we say it and why (now, those might not have been you exact words... but...)

I wish you'd have reviewed that post once more before starting this thread. Now, back to your OP.



Get over this horsesh*t of the more candidates that run the better.

If you have a solid case to make, does it really require the approach we see in this quote?

No.



As in any compaign you will be pitting one against the other and the different camps will tear each other apart.

Hold on there, bud. Neither has even announced that they will actually be running, and here you are "pitting one against the other." Maybe it's time for a little self-examination...



If you didn't get anything else from the RP 08 campaign those that follow RP do not forgive. There is still vitriol hate for all those that ran against RP in 08.

This sounds like it's intended as a threat given what we've read from you so far (and what is yet to come). But let's continue...




This isn't really a good thing but that is the way it is with the average RP supporter.

I always kind of considered myself "the average" supporter of RP. Under 30, self-employed, small family comfortably situated. The only thing is, that's not me you're describing, maybe yourself, but certainly not me (or my wife, or any my friends/family who supported ron paul).



I for one will be tearing Johnson apart if he runs against RP.

Again, who here is being divisive?



Anybody that thinks RP is not presidential enough for the average American yet thinks Johnson with his goffy glasses, his I, I, I, I speech at the rally for the republic, cheating on his wife and a history of hard brain cell killing drug use in his younger years, is, Get real!

yawn. not even worth addressing, really. I just thought it was funny.



If RP runs...

Big if still, imo. An even bigger "if," is IF he will actually run to win this time. Will he have a campaign crew that can get him there even IF he does want to win?

These are really really big IFs.



I have mixed feeling on RP running myself but if he does I will be backing him to the fullest and will tear.

I'm glad that you used some discretion and never completed this sentence. If you had it would have made my point all too clear. I would again like to refer you to your thread from a couple weeks ago, the one previously mentioned in this post.



If you think that Huckabee, Romney Thompson people are held in contempt by the strong RP supporters wait until you are a turncoat and you will see real contempt that will never heal after the election.

More threats? Who is dividing "the movement" again?



Way to split the liberty movement into a million pieces.

Again, you're pointing your finger at everyone but yourself here. I would like to remind you of the old saying, "for every finger you point at someone else there are always four fingers pointed back at you."

But anyway... I think the point's been made, nothing personal. Just try looking at things another way.

[klamath]

Here, let me show you how I define attempts at "division," divisive behavior.




"you people," eh? I remember a couple of weeks ago, you wrote a very lucid post about the need to carefully consider what we say, how we say it and why (now, those might not have been you exact words... but...)

I wish you'd have reviewed that post once more before starting this thread. Now, back to your OP.




If you have a solid case to make, does it really require the approach we see in this quote?

No.



Hold on there, bud. Neither has even announced that they will actually be running, and here you are "pitting one against the other." Maybe it's time for a little self-examination...



This sounds like it's intended as a threat given what we've read from you so far (and what is yet to come). But let's continue...




I always kind of considered myself "the average" supporter of RP. Under 30, self-employed, small family comfortably situated. The only thing is, that's not me you're describing, maybe yourself, but certainly not me (or my wife, or any my friends/family who supported ron paul).



Again, who here is being divisive?



yawn. not even worth addressing, really. I just thought it was funny.



Big if still, imo. An even bigger "if," is IF he will actually run to win this time. Will he have a campaign crew that can get him there even IF he does want to win?

These are really really big IFs.



I'm glad that you used some discretion and never completed this sentence. If you had it would have made my point all too clear. I would again like to refer you to your thread from a couple weeks ago, the one previously mentioned in this post.



More threats? Who is dividing "the movement" again?



Again, you're pointing your finger at everyone but yourself here. I would like to remind you of the old saying, "for every finger you point at someone else there are always four fingers pointed back at you."

But anyway... I think the point's been made, nothing personal. Just try looking at things another way.
Sorry if I didn't use politcally correct language.
I have been noticing a trend that started real lightly and has grow bigger and louder to pit someone against RP if he runs.
When people start running polls pitting RP against Johnson and starting threads stating how horrified they are that RP might run again It became time to make a strong statement. When I talk about the fighting that will go on if Johnson and Paul are pitted against each other in the seperate camps, believe me it will happen. I remember when the leader of Hucks army tried to extend an olive branch to the people of the RP forums as fighting, mostly the same battle he was torn to shreds. The campaign passions aren't up yet but when they are emotions will run high.
I knew this thread would spark strong debate and I did think about it however I feel that to let this trend to pit RP against Johnson continue unopposed it will be a mistake we will all regret.
This is still the RP forums and I hope it will be the jump start point for the RP campaign not the Gary Johnson campaign.

[constituent]

Sorry if I didn't use politcally correct language.


Sorry, I didn't say anything about "political correctness." You attempt to mischaracterize my position has failed, again.


to let this trend to pit RP against Johnson continue unopposed will mistake we will all regret.

And yet you are totally oblivious to the fact that you are the one pitting ron paul against gary johnson as you sit here pitting ron paul against gary johnson.

It's obvious this is a waste of time...

[klamath]

Sorry, I didn't say anything about "political correctness." You attempt to mischaracterize my position has failed, again.



And yet you are totally oblivious to the fact that you are the one pitting ron paul against gary johnson as you sit here pitting ron paul against gary johnson.

It's obvious this is a waste of time...

I didn't start the pitting. I am reacting to it. We aren't in the same world obviously.

[Number19]

Being an old, Libertarian, campaigner, since '79, I pretty much anticipated the high probability of klamath's bloodbath in the absence of a Ron Paul campaign. For this reason, following the Minneapolis Rally, I sent e-mails to the C4L and posted to this forum, an idea which I'll present again.

What needs to be accomplished is a series of regional rallies, probabably sponsored by C4L, in which a dozen or so of the most prominant members of the movement - those who are likely candidates to take the baton from Paul, at the head of the movement as our next presidential candidate - are invited to speak and introduce themselves to the movement. We need some forum where we can meet and hear these individuals, other than U-tube.

This would have a side benefit of being a significant local media event, particularely if these events could draw 25,000 plus. These events would have the effect of building momentum within the movement, but more importantly, would show the public how strong and growing the freedom message is.

[Oyate]

I guess I am missing the point. I suspect it is sacasm or a joke beings that I am not on the Johnson campaign but the paul campaign.
When I say bloodbath it is an old politcal term that describes a campaign so bitter the parties never unite when it is over.

Oh, ah, right, yeah I just got back from rounding up my warrior phratry and we're all set for the blood bath only to find out it was a figure of phreaking speech?

I'm like you gotta be shittin me bro. What do I tell my warrior brothers? Look, we brought extra tomohawks and tons of these really little knives that were expensive as hell. Here we are painted for war but now you can just color us bumming. This really bones man, know what I'm saying? It's like you are pulling my short hairs in a big way dude.

Look, next time you go warning people about a blood bath, if it doesn't work out at least try and have a modest buffet laid out or something. Now we're all gonna have to go hit the Denny's wearing war paint and carrying axes, knives and tomohawks. Proper attire being as important in today's society as it is, it's just kind of embarrasing. Inappropriate. I'm just saying.

Shameful waste of a perfectly good full moon if you ask me.

[Dieseler]

^^^^^^ ^< Teepees
:D
Super Lolz.

[familydog]

I am starting to notice a trend here. It is one thing to look at Johnson and others as potential candidates if RP does Not run however if RP runs and you people are pushing Johnson and others over RP you are going to see a bloodbath like you have never seen.
Get over this horsesh*t of the more candidates that run the better. As in any compaign you will be pitting one against the other and the different camps will tear each other apart. If you didn't get anything else from the RP 08 campaign those that follow RP do not forgive. There is still vitriol hate for all those that ran against RP in 08. Every little slight is remembered and cataloged, from media personalities to the other candidates. This isn't really a good thing but that is the way it is with the average RP supporter.

I for one will be tearing Johnson apart if he runs against RP. Anybody that thinks RP is not presidential enough for the average American yet thinks Johnson with his goffy glasses, his I, I, I, I speech at the rally for the republic, cheating on his wife and a history of hard brain cell killing drug use in his younger years, is, Get real!
Ventura who made his name as a WWF person, a sport that is held in the most contempt by the average american, as any out there. Ha, give me a break!
If RP runs this next time it will be to win not to just try and pass on his message like the last time as he is already hitting Iowa and SC. He never set up his campaign in 08 to win and was overwhelmed by the money and support but didn't have the campaign staff to change from a ideas campaign to a winning campaign. RP is loyal to his people which is a virtue and a drawback as he wouldn't fire the people he had.
I have mixed feeling on RP running myself but if he does I will be backing him to the fullest and will tear.
If you think that Huckabee, Romney Thompson people are held in contempt by the strong RP supporters wait until you are a turncoat and you will see real contempt that will never heal after the election. Way to split the liberty movement into a million pieces.
Chances are that whomever gets nominated will be defeated by Obama unless Obama really really screws up.

I don't see the problem. Ron Paul has not announced a run. Many people doubt he will run in the next election.

[mstrmac1]

Ron Paul will finish what he started, and I for one will be there no matter what!

[Anti Federalist]

Ron Paul, should he decide to run in the 2012 campaign, will have my complete, total and unequivocal support, to the exclusion of any others.

[mstrmac1]

Ron Paul, should he decide to run in the 2012 campaign, will have my complete, total and unequivocal support, to the exclusion of any others.

Anti-federalist.

I love u man!

[klamath]

I don't see the problem. Ron Paul has not announced a run. Many people doubt he will run in the next election.
He may very well not run. My point is strickly aimed at the senario of RP running to win and having people push Johnson into the race to run against RP through the first primaries. IF RP does not run then it is back to finding someone to carry the flag and that will be hard enough to unite the rp people as it is. that could very well be Johnson. If we have people on these forums trying to promotes Johnson over RP for direct votes in the early primaries, (which are the only ones that matter) passions and divisions will run high. All it would take is to have RP lose to Huckabee in iowa and NH by the same amount of votes Johnson drew. If the long time RP supporters saw that RP would have had it in the bag had it not been for the johnson candidacy there will be anger and it is going to be vented somehow.
This is what I am trying to avoid.

[Anti Federalist]

Anti-federalist.

I love u man!

Right back atcha brother.

[Meatwasp]

Ron Paul, should he decide to run in the 2012 campaign, will have my complete, total and unequivocal support, to the exclusion of any others.

I love you too as you are always on the right path never wavers

[tajitj]

I think it is clear people like you will try your hardest to divide us.

A person posting Gary Johnson news, info and opinions is not equal to putting him against Ron Paul. How many former Gov spoke at Rally for Republic? How many endorsed Ron Paul?

I hope guys like you would change your mind if Ron says he is ok with him also running and encouraged it.

I think you will be proven wrong in the end, and shown to be the type that is the problem not the solution.

[SimpleName]

Don't like the tone here. Ron Paul will be number one in my heart...probably forever! But you are really getting on Johnson and I don't think it is called for. Gary Johnson, definitely not the best choice, is still a great choice. Who exactly are you looking for? How many of us have the unblemished record of honesty in the public and an absolute "pristine" personal life like Ron Paul? Johnson did drugs when he was younger, like literally hundreds of millions of other Americans. Johnson's marriage ended in divorce like half of all marriages. He is a human being. Please stop this righteous crap! We all have flaws. And hell, Johnson has fewer of them than 99.9% of Congress!

[Meatwasp]

Don't like the tone here. Ron Paul will be number one in my heart...probably forever! But you are really getting on Johnson and I don't think it is called for. Gary Johnson, definitely not the best choice, is still a great choice. Who exactly are you looking for? How many of us have the unblemished record of honesty in the public and an absolute "pristine" personal life like Ron Paul? Johnson did drugs when he was younger, like literally hundreds of millions of other Americans. Johnson's marriage ended in divorce like half of all marriages. He is a human being. Please stop this righteous crap! We all have flaws. And hell, Johnson has fewer of them than 99.9% of Congress!

He is prochoice. This I cannot abide by sorry.
Hie first wife helped him reach his highest goal than he dumped her and married a younger prettier woman.

[Meatwasp]

He is pro choice. This I cannot abide by sorry.
Hie first wife helped him reach his highest goal than he dumped her and married a younger prettier woman.

In all this united States of America there are lots of people like Ron Paul , who does not have baggage. The press will slaughter Gary believe me.
Yes no one is perfect but please lets find someone who is at least closer to Paul.

[klamath]

Don't like the tone here. Ron Paul will be number one in my heart...probably forever! But you are really getting on Johnson and I don't think it is called for. Gary Johnson, definitely not the best choice, is still a great choice. Who exactly are you looking for? How many of us have the unblemished record of honesty in the public and an absolute "pristine" personal life like Ron Paul? Johnson did drugs when he was younger, like literally hundreds of millions of other Americans. Johnson's marriage ended in divorce like half of all marriages. He is a human being. Please stop this righteous crap! We all have flaws. And hell, Johnson has fewer of them than 99.9% of Congress!
I am directly targeting the movement to pit Johnson against RP in an election and so many of you can't seem to get that point.
I don't care if people post news about GJ promote him as a candidate if RP doesnt run or anything else. GJ has done a lot of good but if he is running against RP the Choice should be clear to RP supporters.
If you read back through the recent thread history you will find a certain group of posters actually pushing GJ over RP.
How quickly does someone that posts a Palin from president thread get torn to shreads even if they are not promoting her over RP?
If I start making threads saying RP can't win, he is to old, he is to whinney (which has been posted by Ventura and Johnson supporters here) should we run Demint, Bachmann against RP, how would the forum react? Hopefully I would get my a** chewed.

[constituent]

but if he is running against RP the Choice should be clear to RP supporters.

Klamath, not to fight with you, but I think it will help if you begin to see a Johnson/RP bid as the two running with each other rather than against.

IMO, and I have no concrete evidence to prove this, but that's how I imagine RP would see it. It is my stance that you should too.

[klamath]

Klamath, not to fight with you, but I think it will help if you begin to see a Johnson/RP bid as the two running with each other rather than against.

IMO, and I have no concrete evidence to prove this, but that's how I imagine RP would see it. It is my stance that you should too.
If I can get confirmation that is their plan then fine. If they both plan to run against each other through the first primaries spreading the message then more power to them but I would not be donating because they would definately not be in it to win. I would campaign with them on the issues but would skip all the donating to pay for personal promotion adds.

[constituent]

If I can get confirmation that is their plan then fine. If they both plan to run against each other through the first primaries spreading the message then more power to them but I would not be donating because they would definately not be in it to win. I would campaign with them on the issues but would skip all the donating to pay for personal promotion adds.

See, we're not so different. I believe that if RP runs, to be successful, it will have to be another "campaign against the presidency."

[klamath]

See, we're not so different. I believe that if RP runs, to be successful, it will have to be another "campaign against the presidency."

The sad part would be that the fire would be very low. The drive to win and compete are to much a part of human nature. You don't see much cheering from the crowd at a ballgame where they don't keep score.

[Flash]

Get over this horsesh*t of the more candidates that run the better.

And you're basing this on what exactly? I don't want Ron Paul to win in 2012, it could be a disaster for Libertarianism. I would like Ron Paul & Gary Johnson to educate Americans on what it means to be a Libertarian and how public schools, the drug war, Federal Reserve, etc.. are flawed. Let people slowly accept the idea. Let new Republicans be introduced to the ideas of civil liberty and personal freedom.


Hie first wife helped him reach his highest goal than he dumped her and married a younger prettier woman.

Tell me how his wife helped him become Governor? You remind me of one of those weasel feminist that think they are solely responsible for your ex-husbands success. Besides, the marriage wasn't working out. He didn't just 'upgrade' to someone better.


A person posting Gary Johnson news, info and opinions is not equal to putting him against Ron Paul. How many former Gov spoke at Rally for Republic? How many endorsed Ron Paul?

More importantly a Governor would be more respected than a mere House representative. Having a former Republican Governor espousing Libertarian beliefs on a national stage is important for this movement.

[LibertyEagle]

This is still the RP forums and I hope it will be the jump start point for the RP campaign not the Gary Johnson campaign.

Don't worry. As you said, this place is still called Ron Paul Forums. At the point that Dr. Paul announces he is going to run, I have no doubt that it will be the focus of these forums. If someone wants to support someone else for President, they can go start their own forum. :)

[LibertyEagle]

I don't want Ron Paul to win in 2012, it could be a disaster for Libertarianism.

Interesting.

[Flash]

Interesting.

Yes. I think we need to educate Americans first before trying to implement extreme Libertarian policies. I don't think americans are ready to get rid of things like Department of Education. And I think if a President pushes for this then there could be a major backlash against Libertarianism. Similar to how there is a huge backlash against Obama right now.

That's why I would like for multiple liberty candidates to run in 2012-- so more Americans can be educated and the GOP can be taken back to Conservative principles bit by bit. And future Republican congressmen may learn a thing or two.

[Meatwasp]

[QUOTE=Flash;2392663]And you're basing this on what exactly? I don't want Ron


Tell me how his wife helped him become Governor? You remind me of one of those weasel feminist that think they are solely responsible for your ex-husbands success. Besides, the marriage wasn't working out. He didn't just 'upgrade' to someone better.

Heavens no I am not a feminist way too old. I used to be a big L libertarian but now it is very tiny. You know we are not all libertarians
She probably helped him make his business grow so he could have the money to run for governor.
You certainly sound like you don't want Paul to run. I don't understand why all you Jonson supporters don't start your own forum for him. This way it won't always upset us true Ron Paul supporters. I only hope if Ron jumps in we can all unite like we did the first time.

[LibertyEagle]

Yes. I think we need to educate Americans first before trying to implement extreme Libertarian policies. I don't think americans are ready to get rid of things like Department of Education. And I think if a President pushes for this then there could be a major backlash against Libertarianism. Similar to how there is a huge backlash against Obama right now.

That's why I would like for multiple liberty candidates to run in 2012-- so more Americans can be educated and the GOP can be taken back to Conservative principles bit by bit. And future Republican congressmen may learn a thing or two.

I think you are hugely wrong. Getting rid of the Department of Education is not extreme at all. It was THE POSITION AND GOAL of most every conservative when Reagan was President. He can educate WHILE he is President. All someone like Paul would have to do is to go on TV and explain to people that getting rid of the DOE would allow for more money to be kept in their own states to educate their own children and would also afford them more say-so in how their children were educated, etc.

By the way, this whole deal isn't about "Libertarianism". It's about reinstating principles of liberty and freedom.

[Meatwasp]

One other thing Flash. At my age I have been around the world more times than you've been around the pee pot.

[Flash]

You certainly sound like you don't want Paul to run. I don't understand why all you Jonson supporters don't start your own forum for him. This way it won't always upset us true Ron Paul supporters. I only hope if Ron jumps in we can all unite like we did the first time.

I will but I don't think he'll win. When I mention Paul's name on Conservative forums the response is generally, "oh yeah he is that lunatic who wants to legalize drugs." Hopefully Ron Paul & Gary Johnson will both be able to educate the average American out there. Which is why I'm disturbed by the OP here saying, "I'll fight against Gary Johnson or anyone who will run against Ron Paul."


By the way, this whole deal isn't about "Libertarianism". It's about reinstating principles of liberty and freedom.

Ron Paul says Libertarians are people who love liberty. I am not too extreme with the word either. In many ways I am not a Libertarian (I don't like free trade or open borders).

[klamath]

I will but I don't think he'll win. When I mention Paul's name on Conservative forums the response is generally, "oh yeah he is that lunatic who wants to legalize drugs." Hopefully Ron Paul & Gary Johnson will both be able to educate the average American out there. Which is why I'm disturbed by the OP here saying, "I'll fight against Gary Johnson or anyone who will run against Ron Paul."



Ron Paul says Libertarians are people who love liberty. I am not too extreme with the word either. In many ways I am not a Libertarian (I don't like free trade or open borders).

Later on I conceed that if RP decides to run only an educational campaign then I don't have a problem with Gary Johnson running as another teacher or even to win. I like you think it is still a really really up hill battle to get RP elected but if the economy is really in the tube in 3 years and people are really hurting what is considered extreme in a candidate now is something they might embrace.
If RP is in it to win and has a shot at it and you really want him to win then ONLY RP should run. I DON'T want to attack Gary Johnson I want Gary Johnson campaigning his heart out for RP in New Mexico and I want to be cheering his every speech.

I thought about peoples reaction to my thread and tried to see the point of the the people that opposed my belief that only RP should run. Honestly I realized that some of them have a fear that they will get to the fall of 2011 and find out RP IS only running for educational purposes and they want someone as a backup that has an organization running and ready to win that they can vote for.
This is a very real fear but on the other hand once they get the backup plan in place and then find out that RP is fighting an all out fight to win then they have just shot down the chances of both.
So it is damed if you do damed if you don't. The only thing that can cure this is for RP to anounce right after being elected in '10 and hires some real professional people and start campaigning hard in Iowa and NH.
The people that actually believe in Johnson and Ventura more than RP and try to hijack these forums to promote Johnson and Ventura over RP when Paul is running(to WIN) will get no quarter from me just as if they are promoting Palin Huckabe or Gingrich:D

[Anti Federalist]

I make no distinctions.

If Ron Paul runs in 2012 for president, he will have my complete and undivided support regardless of what manner of campaign he chooses to run.


Later on I conceed that if RP decides to run only an educational campaign then I don't have a problem with Gary Johnson running as another teacher or even to win. I like you think it is still a really really up hill battle to get RP elected but if the economy is really in the tube in 3 years and people are really hurting what is considered extreme in a candidate now is something they might embrace.
If RP is in it to win and has a shot at it and you really want him to win then ONLY RP should run. I DON'T want to attack Gary Johnson I want Gary Johnson campaigning his heart out for RP in New Mexico and I want to be cheering his every speech.

I thought about peoples reaction to my thread and tried to see the point of the the people that opposed my belief that only RP should run. Honestly I realized that some of them have a fear that they will get to the fall of 2011 and find out RP IS only running for educational purposes and they want someone as a backup that has an organization running and ready to win that they can vote for.
This is a very real fear but on the other hand once they get the backup plan in place and then find out that RP is fighting an all out fight to win then they have just shot down the chances of both.
So it is damed if you do damed if you don't. The only thing that can cure this is for RP to anounce right after being elected in '10 and hires some real professional people and start campaigning hard in Iowa and NH.
The people that actually believe in Johnson and Ventura more than RP and try to hijack these forums to promote Johnson and Ventura over RP when Paul is running(to WIN) will get no quarter from me just as if they are promoting Palin Huckabe or Gingrich:D

[Dieseler]

Health Care Bill
Climate Bill (Treaty)
Cap and Trade
Net Neutrality
If all of this gets passed there may as well not even be a 2012 election.
Just saying.

[pcosmar]

Johnson who?

Ok, I googled him. Not bad, but no Ron Paul.
I'll see what's happening in 2012. and if there is an election, or if we are under UN control.

[Imperial]

I don't see Ron Paul and Gary Johnson both staying in the race through the Iowa caucuses. That would be silly.

But in the debates, I could see it. They would bump up each other's profile. particularly if Ron Paul thinks the strain is too great or Gary Johnson can't muster the votes.

Thinking strategically, if Gary Johnson runs at least he has built a higher profile which means his inevitable endorsement after he drops out for Ron Paul would mean so much more. It also means he is more viable to be a VP pick, which minimizes intra-ticket fighting.

[tonesforjonesbones]

PAUL/ BACHMAN 2012. Forget anybody else. Tones

[klamath]

I tried with this thread to avoid what is happening today.

[libertybrewcity]

I tried with this thread to avoid what is happening today.

yea, this is op is spot on.

[speciallyblend]

PAUL/ BACHMAN 2012. Forget anybody else. Tones

yeah that ticket would have me voting 3rd party ,picking bachman tells me ron paul sold out. bachman is everything that is wrong with the gop!! welcome back tones!!! sorry not a bachman fan. Putting Bachman on the ticket is a great way to get obama a 2nd term!!

[klamath]

yeah that ticket would have me voting 3rd party ,picking bachman tells me ron paul sold out. bachman is everything that is wrong with the gop!! welcome back tones!!! sorry not a bachman fan. Putting Bachman on the ticket is a great way to get obama a 2nd term!!

Tones is still gone. this is an Old thread I bumped in light of the current RP/GJ wars.

[sailingaway]

Only on ronpaulforums.com would "more liberty candidates = more liberty exposure" be considered problematic.

What you seem to be missing, is that if the republican debates are swarmed with liberty candidates, the message the viewers take away from the debate will be pro-liberty. The anti-liberty, pro-war camp won't be able to just speak over two or three candidates supporting "our" message, with "our" support.

Tell me again how this is a bad thing?

Re read your post and note the 'Ron Paul forums' part.

[KramerDSP]

Tones is still gone. this is an Old thread I bumped in light of the current RP/GJ wars.

Why did Tones leave? Is he still a supporter?

[sailingaway]

Tones is still gone. this is an Old thread I bumped in light of the current RP/GJ wars.

I wish you hadn't. Lets see if this can just die, hmmm?

[LibertyEagle]

Why did Tones leave? Is he still a supporter?

Josh banned her, I think. I don't think it was looked upon favorably that she liked Beck and Bachmann. Apparently, it's ok to like someone who favors open borders and NAFTA, but not someone who attends Ron's weekly luncheons in D.C. and whom Thomas Woods once said was trying to learn.

Yes, I'm pretty sure Tones is still a supporter.