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View Full Version : The Growing Rift Between Libertarians & Republicans




mello
10-29-2009, 03:19 PM
Great story! Here's the link to Digg it up.

http://digg.com/political_opinion/The_Growing_Rift_Between_Libertarians_and_Republic ans

Bruno
10-29-2009, 03:39 PM
Great story! Here's the link to Digg it up.

http://digg.com/political_opinion/The_Growing_Rift_Between_Libertarians_and_Republic ans

Digg article link doesn't work?

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had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable

mello
10-29-2009, 03:46 PM
Digg article link doesn't work?

Page not found
The page you are looking for might have been removed,
had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable

Here's the direct link:
http://progressivenation.us/2009/10/28/the-growing-rift-between-libertarians-and-republicans/

specsaregood
10-29-2009, 03:50 PM
Here's the direct link:
http://progressivenation.us/2009/10/28/the-growing-rift-between-libertarians-and-republicans/

Yeah that doesn't work either:



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SwordOfShannarah
10-29-2009, 04:03 PM
I think the opposite is true. The TeaParties have always been "infiltrated" by our types and we have been spreading the word about things like the Fed, etc. If anything the TeaParty movement (imo) is becoming more of a fusion movement for us through which we are finding common ground. And I think more and more mainstream republicans are also re-thinking the war just a bit. The economy is doing so poorly the money spent on it is starting to take it's toll.

georgiaboy
10-29-2009, 04:51 PM
The title obfuscates, as to my knowledge the heart of the Republican party is conservatism, and, as Reagan stated, "If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."

MikeStanart
10-29-2009, 04:54 PM
I didn't read the article; but I disagree with the idea right off the bat. I see the complete opposite happening.

There are cases where top Republicans are squashing the dissentors (Libertarians) but a lot of Republicans are starting to warm up to the idea of limited government and individual liberties.

Andrew-Austin
10-29-2009, 04:59 PM
The title obfuscates, as to my knowledge the heart of the Republican party is conservatism, and, as Reagan stated, "If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."

The title said Republicans not conservatives.

I don't know where you got the idea that the Republican party is conservative, in the way Reagan meant by saying conservative on the campaign trail.

But as one of the comments on digg says, there has never not been a rift between libertarians and republicans. I'm not interested in liberal analysis of libertarians vs conservatives.

FindLiberty
10-29-2009, 05:40 PM
Growing rift?

Come on, this is not a real issue; 'reminds me of the dreaded IRS that exists only to distract people from
the much larger, more corrupt and dangerous fiat funny-money engine that runs the whole shebang
(that's got us headed right in to the ground, I might add).

Likewise, Rep/Dem "opposites" exist only to distract people from the real opposite of federal
and state tyranny, i.e. Libertarian flavored Liberty (tiny constitutional limited government).
Libertarians and republicans have little in common, except for a GOP candidate's campaign rhetoric that will
soon be forgotten.

So, you bet there is (and always was) a huge rift between true freedom lovers and the GOP's true (big)
government lovers who are always ready to force their conservative ways on "those people"
who would _________ (fill in the blank).

The GOP is also happy to use crisp new fiat money (or gov issued bond credit) to enforce their rules
on enva'body (maybe while cutting taxes at the same time like Reagan did) to reward their friends
(like Bush and son-of-a-Bush did) and punish their enemies.

klamath
10-29-2009, 05:50 PM
Growing rift?

Come on, this is not a real issue; 'reminds me of the dreaded IRS that exists only to distract people from
the much larger, more corrupt and dangerous fiat funny-money engine that runs the whole shebang
(that's got us headed right in to the ground, I might add).

Likewise, Rep/Dem "opposites" exist only to distract people from the real opposite of federal
and state tyranny, i.e. Libertarian flavored Liberty (tiny constitutional limited government).
Libertarians and republicans have little in common, except for a GOP candidate's campaign rhetoric that will
soon be forgotten.

So, you bet there is (and always was) a huge rift between true freedom lovers and the GOP's true (big)
government lovers who are always ready to force their conservative ways on "those people"
who would _________ (fill in the blank).

The GOP is also happy to use crisp new fiat money (or gov issued bond credit) to enforce their rules
on enva'body (maybe while cutting taxes at the same time like Reagan did) to reward their friends
(like Bush and son-of-a-Bush did) and punish their enemies.

Likewise the libertarian party is too busy being drugged, fighting with themselves and then complaining about the other parties to ever accomplish a thing.
Since there has never been a libertarian politician elected in the history of the nation no can ever judge their words versus their actions and generally they like it that way. My God, what would happen if they ever got a person elected and had to defend the non action of their man!

Kludge
10-29-2009, 05:59 PM
An article on "the growing rift between Libertarians & Republicans" by "Progressive Nation" is like Russia Today putting Schiff and Paul on every month to cite the growing rift between Americans and their government.


Since there has never been a libertarian politician elected in the history of the nation no can ever judge their words versus their actions and generally they like it that way. My God, what would happen if they ever got a person elected and had to defend the non action of their man!

Uhh.... there have been over 600 Libertarians elected/appointed to local and state positions, over 200 current.

FindLiberty
10-29-2009, 06:02 PM
Likewise the libertarian party is too busy being drugged [by whom, the Military Industrial Complex?], fighting with themselves and then complaining about the other parties to ever accomplish a thing.
Since there has never been a libertarian politician elected in the history of the nation no can ever judge their words versus their actions and generally they like it that way.
My God, what would happen if they ever got a person elected and had to defend the non action of their man!

+90

Yes, the LP seems to be doomed.... but does that shoot constitutional government and Liberty down in flames too?

Yes, "they" are no longer (or not yet) seeking liberty thanks to MSM, publik skool and their own apathy.

Flash
10-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Uhh.... there have been over 600 Libertarians elected to local and state positions, over 200 current.

If the free state project is a success then we may see the Libertarian Party really take off.

klamath
10-29-2009, 06:06 PM
An article on "the growing rift between Libertarians & Republicans" by "Progressive Nation" is like Russia Today putting Schiff and Paul on every month to cite the growing rift between Americans and their government.



Uhh.... there have been over 600 Libertarians elected/appointed to local and state positions, over 200 current.

Didn't know there were that many dog catcher positions in the country:rolleyes:

Kludge
10-29-2009, 06:12 PM
Didn't know there were that many dog catcher positions in the country:rolleyes:

List is two years old, but I don't imagine there are any libertarian dog catchers, today.

http://chelm.freeyellow.com/libsusa.html

libertarian4321
10-30-2009, 04:30 AM
I didn't read the article; but I disagree with the idea right off the bat. I see the complete opposite happening.

There are cases where top Republicans are squashing the dissentors (Libertarians) but a lot of Republicans are starting to warm up to the idea of limited government and individual liberties.

I've noticed Republicans ALWAYS support "limited government" when they are out of power, but when they are in power, they spend like drunken sailors on shore leave.

libertarian4321
10-30-2009, 04:39 AM
Since there has never been a libertarian politician elected in the history of the nation no can ever judge their words versus their actions and generally they like it that way.

There have been hundreds of Libertarians elected on both the local and state levels.

Not one of them has ever voted for a tax increase- whether as city mayor or on the State legislature or as a small town councilman.

The Libertarians who have been elected may be few in number, but ALL have done what they said they would do- something only one Republican (Ron Paul) has done.

LibertyEagle
10-30-2009, 05:04 AM
There have been hundreds of Libertarians elected on both the local and state levels.

Not one of them has ever voted for a tax increase- whether as city mayor or on the State legislature or as a small town councilman.

The Libertarians who have been elected may be few in number, but ALL have done what they said they would do- something only one Republican (Ron Paul) has done.

As opposed to libertarians who voted for Obama?

Austrian Econ Disciple
10-30-2009, 05:14 AM
Likewise the libertarian party is too busy being drugged, fighting with themselves and then complaining about the other parties to ever accomplish a thing.
Since there has never been a libertarian politician elected in the history of the nation no can ever judge their words versus their actions and generally they like it that way. My God, what would happen if they ever got a person elected and had to defend the non action of their man!

Huh? This is sarcasm right? :D There are MANY MANY elected LP members, none nationally, but locally there are a lot.

Austrian Econ Disciple
10-30-2009, 05:15 AM
Didn't know there were that many dog catcher positions in the country:rolleyes:

The Mayor of my city back home; New Port Richey, FL which is situated 40 minutes from both St. Petersburg and Tampa Bay is a LP member. Our cities budget is 53,000,000. I wouldn't call that a dog-catcher would you? Shove off. In fact, looking through the meeting notations, this year's budget has been reduced by over 13% since last year. He was elected late in 2008. I would have slashed budgets a lot more, but that isn't half bad. Especially for a one year drop. We'll see what he does by 2011, when he is up for re-election.

PS: Population of NPR was 26,000 in the 2000 Census. The area has grown a lot since then and the 2010 Census will probably show at least 40,000. One hell of a dog-catcher!

Peace&Freedom
10-30-2009, 09:15 AM
Likewise the libertarian party is too busy being drugged, fighting with themselves and then complaining about the other parties to ever accomplish a thing.
Since there has never been a libertarian politician elected in the history of the nation no can ever judge their words versus their actions and generally they like it that way. My God, what would happen if they ever got a person elected and had to defend the non action of their man!

I COUNT RON PAUL AS A LIBERTARIAN POLITICAN WHO HAS BEEN ELECTED. What matters is not so much party label, as whether the candidate or office holder is actually libertarian in word and deed. We need to elect more Ron Paul Republicans and Ron Paul Democrats, not carry on acrimonious carping over this or that party's success rate. In terms of failure, if given the choice, I much prefer the LP's 40 year record of electoral defeat, to the GOP's 80 year record of legislative defeat.

Pericles
10-30-2009, 09:19 AM
I've noticed Republicans ALWAYS support "limited government" when they are out of power, but when they are in power, they spend like drunken sailors on shore leave.

I consider your statement to be unfair to drunken sailors - at least they are spending their own money.

LDA
10-30-2009, 09:40 AM
The real rift is between the pro-war/"social conservative" crow,d, and the actual libertarians. As long as the GOP is controlled by the religious right, we'll have a hard time advancing libertarian ideals in the party.

fgd
10-30-2009, 09:41 AM
Who uses digg anymore?

klamath
10-30-2009, 10:08 AM
The Mayor of my city back home; New Port Richey, FL which is situated 40 minutes from both St. Petersburg and Tampa Bay is a LP member. Our cities budget is 53,000,000. I wouldn't call that a dog-catcher would you? Shove off. In fact, looking through the meeting notations, this year's budget has been reduced by over 13% since last year. He was elected late in 2008. I would have slashed budgets a lot more, but that isn't half bad. Especially for a one year drop. We'll see what he does by 2011, when he is up for re-election.

PS: Population of NPR was 26,000 in the 2000 Census. The area has grown a lot since then and the 2010 Census will probably show at least 40,000. One hell of a dog-catcher!

NEW PORT RICHEY - The city's budget for fiscal 2010 got its final stamp of approval from the city council during a public hearing Tuesday night.

The approved total net budget of $35,005,165 is down 13.2 percent from this fiscal year's $40,329,420. The city's general fund property tax rate of 8.1037 mills, recommended by interim City Manager Jeff Sutton, was also officially set Tuesday.

For fiscal 2010, the city council set the city's general fund property tax rate 12.75 percent above the city's rolled-back rate for the coming budget year of 7.1873 mills. The rolled-back rate would have generated the same amount of general fund property tax revenue for the city in fiscal 2010 as it took in during the current budget year, which ends Wednesday.

A mill represents one dollar of property tax revenue for each $1,000 of assessed, taxable property value.

The city is raising its general fund millage rate to offset a drop in overall property values caused by the slump in the state's real estate and housing markets.

City services and programs will be funded by a general operating fund budget that is $1,218,780, or 7.06 percent, less than in fiscal 2009. Residents, however, should feel little impact on quality-of-life services offered by the city, Mayor Scott McPherson said in an e-mail.

"The public comment was 90 percent or greater in favor of doing what was necessary to keep the quality of life we have in New Port Richey, with many residents talking about the importance of the parks and recreation department as well as our library," McPherson wrote. "I am also very pleased with the efforts of our police and fire departments, and public safety remained on my mind throughout the budget discussions."

The mayor acknowledged "it is not going to be an easy ride for the next several years," despite some recent positive national economic data from Washington. The current down times offer city officials ample opportunity to learn while moving forward, according to McPherson.

"When the city fully recovers from this recession, more emphasis needs to be placed on fiscal restraint and financial reserves, and less on spending in areas where we should not be involved," he stated.

The city did in fact increase its reserves for next year by nearly 50 percent, to $1.479 million from $1.080 million.

For detailed information on this year's upcoming budget and Tuesday's meeting, go to the city Web site at

So he thinks it is great for the people of the city to pay taxes for parks and recreation? Some libertarian:rolleyes:

klamath
10-30-2009, 10:18 AM
I am not trying to start a fight with the libertarians but I wanted to illustrate how it feels to be slammed as a group as many of you have been doing to republicans.
I have been a republican all my life and have lots of problems with my party but too many of you feel it is a free fire zone on the RP forums, against all republicans.
Maybe if everone can try and restrain themselves from making blanket collective statements about one side or the other, we can stay a little more united.

johnrocks
10-30-2009, 11:14 AM
I don't look at it as a rift between the LP and the GOP but with libertarian slanted people and those who control the GOP, I've been in the GOP since I turned 18 in 1979 and no one curses them more than I have these past few years.

Slutter McGee
10-30-2009, 01:20 PM
I disagree with the article. I think the libertarians and conservatives can find common ground at the Federal Level. Instead of pushing pro-drug legalization, we should be pushing states rights. Instead of pushing gay rights, we should be pushing states rights. States rights is the one concept that can definately contribute to an alliance at the Federal Level. The only real problem is foreign policy.

At the state government, it is whole different problem.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Kludge
10-30-2009, 07:05 PM
I am not trying to start a fight with the libertarians but I wanted to illustrate how it feels to be slammed as a group as many of you have been doing to republicans.
I have been a republican all my life and have lots of problems with my party but too many of you feel it is a free fire zone on the RP forums, against all republicans.
Maybe if everone can try and restrain themselves from making blanket collective statements about one side or the other, we can stay a little more united.

Well, your condescending attitude toward local-level Libertarian politicians ("Didn't know there were that many dog catcher positions in the country:rolleyes:") was pretty damn offensive. I don't know what you expected.

constituent
10-30-2009, 07:17 PM
Likewise the libertarian party is too busy being drugged, fighting with themselves and then complaining about the other parties to ever accomplish a thing.
Since there has never been a libertarian politician elected in the history of the nation no can ever judge their words versus their actions and generally they like it that way. My God, what would happen if they ever got a person elected and had to defend the non action of their man!

I wonder what it is you're trying to prove here lately.

klamath
10-30-2009, 07:26 PM
I wonder what it is you're trying to prove here lately.

Why don't you read all of my posts in this thread before you comment.

klamath
10-30-2009, 07:28 PM
Well, your condescending attitude toward local-level Libertarian politicians ("Didn't know there were that many dog catcher positions in the country:rolleyes:") was pretty damn offensive. I don't know what you expected.
And try and be a republican on these forums and you will suddenly find out what condescending attitude is.

Number19
10-30-2009, 07:48 PM
...Since there has never been a libertarian politician elected in the history of the nation...This, of course, refers only to national office. Andre Marrou, I believe, is the most successful candidate running on the LP ticket to be elected to a state legislature - Alaska's - in 1985. As our presidential candidate in 1992 pulled in a low 0.28% - 291,627 votes.