Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman takes the lead in NY-23

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2009/10/cfg_poll_hoffman_leading_in_ny.php


Washington - A poll released today by the Club for Growth shows Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman surging into the lead in the special election in New York's 23rd congressional district to replace John McHugh, the former congressman who recently became Secretary of the Army.

The poll of 300 likely voters, conducted October 24-25, 2009, shows Conservative Doug Hoffman at 31.3%, Democrat Bill Owens at 27.0%, Republican Dede Scozzafava at 19.7%, and 22% undecided. The poll's margin of error is +/- 5.66%. No information was provided about any of the candidates prior to the ballot question.

[georgiaboy]

fascinating.

[Revolution0918]

he was just on Glenn Beck, what does he stand for....?

[jt8025]

Anyone thought of sending money to this guy? Even if he isn't our perfect type of candidate. It may open peoples minds that a 3rd party can win.

Thoughts anyone?

[itshappening]

he's an accountant and he's a NEO-CON on foreign policy, maybe he can meet the good doctor and see the light as he seems to be a little independent? who knows.

[Carole]

Hoffman was a guest on Beck yesterday. Maybe that helped him.

Congratulations to Hoffman. So far he is better than the other two.

[paulitics]

he was just on Glenn Beck, what does he stand for....?

Glenn asked him hard hitting and pointed questions like "are you a marxist?", and "do you like Acorn?"

Other than that we have no idea where he stands on pre-emptive wars, torture, wiretapping, patriot act, entitlement spending, department of education, homeland security, fusion centers, foreign aid to countries, drug war, 2nd amendment. 100 to 1 odds, he is antiliberty and not a fiscal conservatie on these issues.

I tell you that 15 minute interview really got the heart of the matter, and now I will support Hoffamn without knowing anything more than he is not a fan of Karl Marx. Glenn Beck supports him, and so should I.

[paulitics]

he's an accountant and he's a NEO-CON on foreign policy, maybe he can meet the good doctor and see the light as he seems to be a little independent? who knows.

He is rogue enough to get the endorsement of Bill Kristol, and that means alot because he only goes for the rogue candidates like George W Bush.

[angelatc]

He is rogue enough to get the endorsement of Bill Kristol, and that means alot because he only goes for the rogue candidates like George W Bush.

OK - now I know you're joking. :)

I wish him luck, and I am happy that a third party candidate might win a seat, but I'm not giving him any money.

On the other hand, his staff is largely volunteers, and I'm thrilled just thinking about how pumped up they must be to be in the national spotlight and seeing their budget grow just in time to spend some money. Good for them.

Fred Thompson even did an ad for him. The ad is rather forgettable, but the comments are hysterical. The left really gets totally and rapidly unhinged when a conservative candidate gets popular.

YouTube - HFC Thompson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2qxg0gLnKc)

[jmdrake]

Glenn asked him hard hitting and pointed questions like "are you a marxist?", and "do you like Acorn?"

Other than that we have no idea where he stands on pre-emptive wars, torture, wiretapping, patriot act, entitlement spending, department of education, homeland security, fusion centers, foreign aid to countries, drug war, 2nd amendment. 100 to 1 odds, he is antiliberty and not a fiscal conservatie on these issues.

I tell you that 15 minute interview really got the heart of the matter, and now I will support Hoffamn without knowing anything more than he is not a fan of Karl Marx. Glenn Beck supports him, and so should I.

Well I'll give you 10000 to 1 odds that both of his opponents are antiliberty and not conservative on any issue. And I'll give you those same odds that if he came out publicly on those issues the way you wished he wouldn't be leading right about now. Really, it's a majority republican district. If he came out and said "I support General McCrystal's call for more troops for Afghanistan and ask Obama to take a firm stand on the issue" he'd probably get a bump as the Afghan war still has broad GOP support. The fact that he's silent on the issue is actually a hopeful sign.

[paulitics]

Well I'll give you 10000 to 1 odds that both of his opponents are antiliberty and not conservative on any issue. And I'll give you those same odds that if he came out publicly on those issues the way you wished he wouldn't be leading right about now. Really, it's a majority republican district. If he came out and said "I support General McCrystal's call for more troops for Afghanistan and ask Obama to take a firm stand on the issue" he'd probably get a bump as the Afghan war still has broad GOP support. The fact that he's silent on the issue is actually a hopeful sign.


Historically, a pro freedom, small government campaign is almost impossible to beat with enough money, and support from the media or establishment - Reagan, Bush, etc.

Most neocons are stealth neocons, until they get elected. Contrary to the illusion the right wing media portrays, most Americans who identify with conservative values are not insane war mongers, unless manipulated with an endless barrage of neocon propaganda playing on their fear(post 911 until 2004). Those days are over, hence the dramtic shrinking of the base, and now the return of pro liberty rhetoric by the conservative establishment.

Maybe, neocon is too strong a word for someone who has not uttered a word about his intentions on 50% of the issues, which are no less important.

But, I disagree that this means he is more likely to be one of us. Quite the contrary. Do you actually think the neocon godfather Bill Kristol, along with Palin, Thompson, Santorum, and every single neocon radio host is going to just endorse this guy out of the blue if there is a chance he is a Ron paul? No way, and I have read enough of your posts to know you aren't naive enough to think that things happen by randomly by chance in politics.

I agree that perhaps he is not an out of the womb neocon, but there is no way that he is not being groomed by the neocon machine right now. Liberty is krpytonite to guys like Bill Kristol and Rick Santorum, and they are thinking 2 years ahead of schedule.

[angelatc]

Plus look at this guy: his picture speaks volumes. He's not a power player. He's a pawn.

[specsaregood]

Plus look at this guy: his picture speaks volumes. He's not a power player. He's a pawn.

http://72.73.236.82/photos/hoffmanss.jpg


On a side note, I wonder if we can get ole' Fred to endorse and do an ad for Rand. It might go a long ways with the "Law and Order" blue hairs.

[jmdrake]

Historically, a pro freedom, small government campaign is almost impossible to beat with enough money, and support from the media or establishment - Reagan, Bush, etc.


Well I never saw the Bush campaign as "pro freedom", but maybe that's just me.



Most neocons are stealth neocons, until they get elected. Contrary to the illusion the right wing media portrays, most Americans who identify with conservative values are not insane war mongers, unless manipulated with an endless barrage of neocon propaganda playing on their fear(post 911 until 2004). Those days are over, hence the dramtic shrinking of the base, and now the return of pro liberty rhetoric by the conservative establishment.


Reagan came off as quite militaristic. Evil empire. Funding the contras. Funding right wing governments that used death squads in central America. Funding the "Afghan freedom fighters". (It did come out decades later that this was initially a Carter - Brezinski undertaking. But Reagan certainly ran with the public perception that it was his idea.) Marines to Lebanon. Invading Grenada. Bombing Lybia etc. It is true that behind the scenes Reagan worked for peace with the Soviets. But that wasn't public until well into his 2nd term. I don't think anyone thought of Reagan as the "peace" candidate.

As far as the shrinking base of neocon support, there's still 70% among republicans for sending more troops to Afghanistan.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123521/americans-divided-sending-troops-afghanistan.aspx

But maybe you're talking about "shrinking base" as in "leaving the GOP and becoming independents"? If so than sure. Independents are leaning against both wars. However I'm not sure of the breakdown of republicans versus independents in NY-23.



Maybe, neocon is too strong a word for someone who has not uttered a word about his intentions on 50% of the issues, which are no less important.

But, I disagree that this means he is more likely to be one of us. Quite the contrary. Do you actually think the neocon godfather Bill Kristol, along with Palin, Thompson, Santorum, and every single neocon radio host is going to just endorse this guy out of the blue if there is a chance he is a Ron paul? No way, and I have read enough of your posts to know you aren't naive enough to think that things happen by randomly by chance in politics.


Well considering how some post their hopes on Palin endorsing Ron Paul in 2012....

Still, I'm not sure if I was clear. I'm not saying there's a good chance he's "one of us". I'm saying that there is less of a chance that the other two candidates are. I'm even more suspicious of the GOP handpicking some candidate (as opposed to having a primary) and the endorsement of Newt "sit next to me Nancy" Gingrich.

As for why neocons might jump on this bandwagon? Why have they jumped on the tea party bandwagon? It's clear that Americans are angry and "insiders" of both parties. Jumping to the democrats won't save the neocons (although Kristol has hinted that he might do that.) If Kristol and his ilk endorsed Dede it would be a kiss of death for her. I dunno. I don't trust Kristol or Gingrich. So looking at the candidates themselves (as opposed to who endorsed them) Hoffman looks better. But it could all be lipstick on a pig. ;)



I agree that perhaps he is not an out of the womb neocon, but there is no way that he is not being groomed by the neocon machine right now. Liberty is krpytonite to guys like Bill Kristol and Rick Santorum, and they are thinking 2 years ahead of schedule.

Anything's possible. We don't have a dog in the fight. I'm not suggesting we donate to him. (Too late to make a difference now anyhow.) I'm just being a bit hopeful.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[NYgs23]

On the one hand it's nice to see a third party candidate get somewhere. Maybe it will shake things up in the GOP establishment, especially here in NY. The NY GOP has zero values, zero principles other then getting elected and staying elected. New York is a political joke.

On the other hand, I have to be suspicious why so many establishmentarians are lining up for this guy? Palin? Thompson? Tim Pawlenty? Is this just more controlled opposition? The GOP is failing so they need to district with new fake parties? In any case, he's certainly not a freedom warrior, just another nationalistic right-winger. For example, on his site, he says:

"I believe we must continue to try and turn the security and governing of Iraq over to the Iraqis. I also believe we need to continue to go after the terrorist strongholds and training bases wherever they are located. The war against terror is not over and the terrorists’ goal remains the destruction of the United States and our way of life..."

Sure, Doug, sure.

[South Park Fan]

While certainly not perfect, Hoffman is preferable to the other two candidates because his election would demonstrate that a third-party can be elected on the national level.

[Pericles]

While certainly not perfect, Hoffman is preferable to the other two candidates because his election would demonstrate that a third-party can be elected on the national level.

Especially not a socialist "Independent" ala Vermont.

[Sic Semper Tyrannis]

The Conservative Party (more like Neo-Conservative Party) is like a minie Republican copycat party. I don't see why it even exists, except maybe as a tool for the Republican Party to use against it's own members that it has slight disagreements with.

This is a direct quote of the Conservative Party of New York State's website:

"We support the continuation of the Patriot Act which gives the government the powers it needs to protect the people [sic!!!] while guaranteeing our constitutional rights."

[lx43]

I never understand why people vote for someone if you only know half of they stand for. I want to know where he stands on all the issues.

Its like signing a contract when you only know half the facts, the devil is in the detail.

[GunnyFreedom]

Meh, he's NeoCon lite true enough, but what it DOES do is send a message to the GOP establishment that 'the people' will not be satisfied with whatever garbage they just shove at us anymore. While this will not affect the composition of Congress if/when Hoffman wins, it may well affect the mindset of the Republican establishment to focus on principles instead of partisanship -- which can only be a victory for us, as the vast majority of "ordinary" Republicans are far more like us that you will probably believe.

[CapitalistRadical]

I'm all for sending the GOP a message, but it has to be the right message. It can't be a signal that they need to get stricter on the war on drugs, the war on terrorism, and the war on abortions.

[MicroBalrog]

Not everybody who supports US foreign activity is a neocon. I once identified myself as one based on that faulty definition, but later saw the light.

[Flash]

Not everybody who supports US foreign activity is a neocon. I once identified myself as one based on that faulty definition, but later saw the light.

Yes. A Neo-Con is not only a 'war-mongerer' but also a liberal on domestic issues. Doug Hoffman is not a Neo-Con. Besides, I don't have a problem with moderate interventionism. The war-hungry Republicans seem to mostly come from the Christian south.

[MicroBalrog]

By liberal, you of course mean a big-government leftist, yes?

[Flash]

By liberal, you of course mean a big-government leftist, yes?

Yes, not a classical liberal..

[MicroBalrog]

Well, yes.

Neocons just want to turn big government to socially-conservative means. Irving Kristol, for instance, wanted to ban porn.