Christians Will Bolt GOP if Giuliani Leads

[American]

Christian conservatives are considering supporting a third-party candidate for president if Rudy Giuliani wins the Republican nomination.

According to the New York Times, a coalition of influential Christian conservatives opposes Giuliani because of his support for abortion rights.

The group includes Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family, Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, and direct-mail pioneer Richard Viguerie.

They, and others, gathered in Salt Lake City over the weekend for a meeting of Council for National Policy. Participants in the meeting told the Times that the group has not yet identified an alternative third party candidate, but the group is largely united in its plans to bolt the GOP if Giuliani becomes its presidential candidate.

Gary Bauer, a Christian conservative political advocate, told the Times that he spoke to the group over the phone and urged it to proceed with caution. “I can’t think of a bigger disaster for social conservatives, defense conservatives, and economic conservatives than Hillary Clinton in the White House,” Bauer said.

“But I do believe there are certain core issues for the Republican Party — low taxes, strong defense and pro life — and if we nominate some who is hostile on one of those three thing it will blow up the GOP.”

In response to the Christian conservatives, a spokeswoman for the Giuliani campaign provided a statement from Rep. Pete Sessions, a Texas Republican who supports Giuliani, saying, “Conservatives are rallying around the one candidate with the executive experience and proven leadership our country needs.”

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/giuliani_GOP_christians/2007/09/30/36974.html?s=al&promo_code=3AAF-1

[JosephTheLibertarian]

It's the media's fault for choosing our "front runners" for us

Romney got in... heavy media coverage

Ron Paul got in.. no coverage

Giuliani got in ...heavy media coverage

Huckabee got in...no coverage

its manipulation

[winston_blade]

Surprise. Saw it on Tucker just now. They said if Rudy was the nominee, they would consider running a 3rd party candidate. We should jump on these guys to support RP. James Dobson among other big religious figures were at this meeting. This is prime time RP time.

[winston_blade]

erase my new thread. I didn't see this one.

[allyinoh]

How about they back Ron Paul? Sheesh.. it's not rocket science.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

How about they back Ron Paul? Sheesh.. it's not rocket science.

yeah, that religious guy mirrored Ron Paul's stance on leaving abortion to the states... but, of course, they mention Mike Huckabee instead

[Grandson of Liberty]

agreed.

[Richie]

They probably support Huckabee right now. It's weird because unless they run their own independents (or start their own party), the Constitution Party seems the closest to their beliefs. It is, however, against the war in Iraq. So, why don't they just support Paul? :confused:

[JosephTheLibertarian]

They probably support Huckabee right now. It's weird because unless they run their own independents (or start their own party), the Constitution Party seems the closest to their beliefs. It is, however, against the war in Iraq. So, why don't they just support Paul? :confused:

well... because they don't like libertarians

[ChooseLiberty]

Doubt if any relig. right people would vote for a candidate that didn't attack lots of muslim or A-rab countries at random for hating our freedom.

Wonder why they don't support the other Christians that are also A-rabs instead of the zionists that are killing them?

Never got that part.

[Original_Intent]

Honestly, I think Ron Paul's position on drugs hurts him with this group more than anything.

I mean, these guys can't support anything with even the faintest hint of being socially permissive. It's really sad actually how many people get hung up on the drug issue.

I have never used drugs myself, but I agree with RP that drug users need to be treated not imprisoned. And if they don't break any laws to support their drug habit, it's their business.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Honestly, I think Ron Paul's position on drugs hurts him with this group more than anything.

I mean, these guys can't support anything with even the faintest hint of being socially permissive. It's really sad actually how many people get hung up on the drug issue.

I have never used drugs myself, but I agree with RP that drug users need to be treated not imprisoned. And if they don't break any laws to support their drug habit, it's their business.

yes, I'm surprised no one tried to exploit RP's libertarian views...yet. Personally, I think there's an opening to legaizing abortion in the 9th amendment :p it should be a woman's choice

[wsc321]

Honestly, I think Ron Paul's position on drugs hurts him with this group more than anything.

I mean, these guys can't support anything with even the faintest hint of being socially permissive. It's really sad actually how many people get hung up on the drug issue.

I have never used drugs myself, but I agree with RP that drug users need to be treated not imprisoned. And if they don't break any laws to support their drug habit, it's their business.

FWIW: William F. Buckley has made a strong argument for legalizing drugs. (I can't remember if it was just pot or... I think its still on video.google.com) His argument is compelling, pointing out the practical considerations and emphasizing we can still have "Social Sanctions" against drug abuse, similar to that we have against alcohol abuse.

I think many, many Christians could be persuaded to support Ron Paul once they understand his position on this issue. Sadly, I suspect many of the mainstream, high-profile Christian organizations will be as unfair to RP as the general MSM... so we'll have to reach those folks one-by-one like the rest.

[tfelice]

Doubt if any relig. right people would vote for a candidate that didn't attack lots of muslim or A-rab countries at random for hating our freedom..

Don't paint us al with a broad brush. I'm a pastor and have been a Ron Paul supporter for years. There are a lot of Christians who support Paul and other candidates like him. Ron is a Christian and strongly pro-life. For many of my Christian friends he passes the litmus test to be considered further.

[Triton]

Surprise. Saw it on Tucker just now. They said if Rudy was the nominee, they would consider running a 3rd party candidate. We should jump on these guys to support RP. James Dobson among other big religious figures were at this meeting. This is prime time RP time.I was thinking of the same thing. Those of us who are Christians should bombard Dobson, Robertson, et al, with emails and letters BEGGING them to support Paul.

[hard@work]

The problem is the war. They preachers love the war. It was the thing to do as a Republican Christian for years now. If they go back on this they risk a revolt from their congregations. Their congregations risk being ostricized by their own churchmates.

That's a sticky situation. But I do agree we need to make a massive push towards them.

[Cindy]

How about they back Ron Paul? Sheesh.. it's not rocket science.

It was discussed on Chris mathews Hard Ball today with Buchanan. Gues what Pat said?

He said, "Huckabee is the logical choice to replace Giuliani with", to keep that from happening.

First off, since when did Buchanan turn tail on Paul in favor of TaxHike Mike Bill Clinton Act Alike Huckaboo?

Second, don't the voters have any say in who their party should nominate via the primary election?

Are our votes going to matter?

Appearantly, it is Rocket science for Pat Buchannan.

[ForLibertyFight]

It's ironic that Christians are supporting the war while opposing abortions. War kills more people than abortions. WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE THINKING? And also aren't religions supposed to teach people about love and forgiveness?

[1000-points-of-fright]

It was discussed on Chris mathews Hard Ball today with Buchanan. Gues what Pat said?

He said, "Huckabee is the logical choice to replace Giuliani with", to keep that from happening.

First off, since when did Buchanan turn tail on Paul in favor of TaxHike Mike Bill Clinton Act Alike Huckaboo?

Second, don't the voters have any say in who their party should nominate via the primary election?

Are our votes going to matter?

Appearantly, it is Rocket science for Pat Buchannan.

Apparently, logic is Rocket Science for some people. Buchanan didn't "turn tail on Paul". He didn't say "I support Huckabee." I know Paul supporters love to fly off the handle in his defense against any perceived slight, but stop and think before you do. Pat was simply stating the obvious: To keep the voting base of Evangelical Christians who think America needs to support Israel, defeat the evil Muslim scourge, save the unborn and stamp out *****, Huckabee IS the obvious choice to replace Giuliani.

[steph3n]

Preachers don't love the war, another broad stroke for too many folks.


The problem is the war. They preachers love the war. It was the thing to do as a Republican Christian for years now. If they go back on this they risk a revolt from their congregations. Their congregations risk being ostricized by their own churchmates.

That's a sticky situation. But I do agree we need to make a massive push towards them.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Preachers don't love the war, another broad stroke for too many folks.


well, this preacher sure does ;)

[Cindy]

Apparently, logic is Rocket Science for some people. Buchanan didn't "turn tail on Paul". He didn't say "I support Huckabee." I know Paul supporters love to fly off the handle in his defense against any perceived slight, but stop and think before you do. Pat was simply stating the obvious: To keep the voting base of Evangelical Christians who think America needs to support Israel, defeat the evil Muslim scourge, save the unborn and stamp out *****, Huckabee IS the obvious choice to replace Giuliani.

Did you watch Hard Ball today?

The issue of protecting Isreal was never brought up as one of importance to that group. It's not in that article either.

What issues of importance were brought up are-

Abortion,

Securing our borders and doing away with Sanctuary cities

Gay Marriage.

There is no reason why Buchanan could not have said Paul was the logical choice or added him in additon to Huckabee.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Huckabee supports all their positions AND wants to keep fighting "Islamofascism". There's reason why Pat had to mention Ron Paul. He has to keep some measure of objectivity as a political commentator. Don't crucify the guy cuz he's not name dropping Ron every chance he gets.

[Cindy]

I am appreciative for all of the public support he has given Paul.

I do understand that to maintain credibility, he had to cite the winner of the values voter debate poll for sure.

Because protecting Isreal is not a major concern of importance, he could've easily said,

Huckabee or Paul would be the logical choice.

he had the leeway too because the group just said they would NOT vote for Giuliani if he were the republican nominee. that does not mean that they wouldn;t vote for any other republican candidate.

Chris and Pat dinged Romney, McCain and Thompson for various reasons.

Paul could've been added as a choice to keep their vote. So could have Brownback, Hunter or Tancredo for that matter though.

Oh Well. He didn't and I let you guys thats what went down on hard ball today.

Maybe turning tail was harsh, considering he was in a position to pander to the values voters who said God showwed them that Huckabee was the clear choice.

All this pandering sucks.

Thats one I thing I love so much about about Paul. He doesn't pander to any one group. Thats a big part of what makes him such an honest, real, breath of fresh air to listen too.

[tfelice]

It's ironic that Christians are supporting the war while opposing abortions. War kills more people than abortions.

Not sure where your math is coming from. There are over 1.3 million abortions in the US annually. Over 48.5 million since Roe v Wade.

[RP4ME]

Don't paint us al with a broad brush. I'm a pastor and have been a Ron Paul supporter for years. There are a lot of Christians who support Paul and other candidates like him. Ron is a Christian and strongly pro-life. For many of my Christian friends he passes the litmus test to be considered further.

Okay I was banned form a Christain forum b/c i shared my views on RP as they were promoting the Neocon du jour...the sticking point is Isreal. Can you give me some guidance and where you stand in light of eschatology b/c that is obscureing things for them a bit - its like well im gonna be raptured off the earth, so forget the US I need to vote to "bless" israel b/c the US is somehow second to her. Tehy compleet overlook the loss of civil liberties. Teh think Neocons are more conservative than paul and that he is an interloper. Im a Christain BTW but i dont belive we should look out for Isreal above ourselves or any other country - what say you Pastor?

I amazed at all they extrapolate from on elittle passage about blessing Isreal - are their many ways to do so? are we really blessing her know? I dont think so.

[rpfreedom08]

These people are talking about ron paul! I know these type of people and they have nothing but the best intentions and do what is the right thing. NOt these t.v. evandulists. These Christians are good people and love a stance like ron pauls. If you think about it he wants to ban abortions, He wants a small government instead of this huge godless government, he is looking to history to get his answers about how we should live our present and grow into a pieceful future. This guy is good and they know it!!!! spread the word!!!!!

and to the guy above believe me when I say there is a differance between the christians you are thinking about and the ones that want to support ron paul. You won't see these people on the internet usually. They are all the small churches that are humble and not excessive. These are good people...

[RP4ME]

These people are talking about ron paul! I know these type of people and they have nothing but the best intentions and do what is the right thing. NOt these t.v. evandulists. These Christians are good people and love a stance like ron pauls. If you think about it he wants to ban abortions, He wants a small government instead of this huge godless government, he is looking to history to get his answers about how we should live our present. This guy is good and they know it!!!! spread the word!!!!!

its not that easy they are adament in stating RP hates ISrael - thats trumps all as far as they are concerned

[tfelice]

Can you give me some guidance and where you stand in light of eschatology b/c that is obscureing things for them a bit.

I'm Amillenial, which is more widely held in Evangelicalism than the Dispensational view. Dispensationalism gives the appearance of being more widely held since it sells the most books, and most of the radio preachers are Dispensational.

I agree with you that Dispensationalist's view on support for Israel is greatly clouded by their faulty interpretation of Scripture as they see national Israel as being spiritual Israel when in fact they are not the same thing.

That being said the way to reach that segment of Evangelicals is not to beat them down on their support for Israel, but instead is to introduce Dr Paul to them as a strongly pro-life, conservative Evangelical Christian. If the issue of Israel support comes up then turn it around by stating to them what Ron Paul has stated for a long time - let Israel have the ability to defend itself as it rightly should do so.

[Matt Collins]

Rudy doesn't have a chance of getting the GOP nomination. It's Thompson, Paul, and maybe Newt.

[Captain Shays]

I was thinking of the same thing. Those of us who are Christians should bombard Dobson, Robertson, et al, with emails and letters BEGGING them to support Paul.


I agree. As a Christian, I stand with you and others on this. If we can get the Christian vote for RP, we WILL win the Republican nomination.
We need a link bank to direct us to where and whom to write to.
I also suggest making copies of Laurance Vance's articles and handing them out to others.
Lets get on this.

[RP4ME]

I'm Amillenial, which is more widely held in Evangelicalism than the Dispensational view. Dispensationalism gives the appearance of being more widely held since it sells the most books, and most of the radio preachers are Dispensational.

I agree with you that Dispensationalist's view on support for Israel is greatly clouded by their faulty interpretation of Scripture as they see national Israel as being spiritual Israel when in fact they are not the same thing.

That being said the way to reach that segment of Evangelicals is not to beat them down on their support for Israel, but instead is to introduce Dr Paul to them as a strongly pro-life, conservative Evangelical Christian. If the issue of Israel support comes up then turn it around by stating to them what Ron Paul has stated for a long time - let Israel have the ability to defend itself as it rightly should do so.

I did - no beating involved - i was the one who was attcked....it wasnt convincing for them and i was accused of being a democrat, really liberal which im not, and possibly not a Christain. HA!

[tfelice]

Point them to Romans 9 then. If they read "not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel" in verse 6 and cannot understand it in the context of the book itself, then they might lack the spiritual discernment to understand much else.

[angelatc]

How about they back Ron Paul? Sheesh.. it's not rocket science.

It's the crusades...I mean the war. The Christian Right wants to fight the good fight.

[JS4Pat]

Here is something the Jacksonville Ron Paul Meetup Group did:

1. Searched the interenet for names/e-mail addresses of all church leaders and their staffs in our area to create a large "Religious Leaders" distribution list.

2. Composed an e-mail explaining why they should consider supporting Congressman Ron Paul. (Text Copied Below)

3. Took copies of Ron Paul's Statement of Faith along with Pastor Chuck Baldwin's article endorsing Ron Paul and picked a different church each Sunday and flyerd the parking lot OR for the churches in a "public area" - personally handed them out.

Statement of Faith / Chuck Baldwin Article:
http://files.meetup.com/512809/FaithStatemenWithBaldwin.doc

Video of us handing out literature at Church:
http://www.youtube.com/jp.swf?video_id=w0LCf7sK64o&eurl=http%3A//ronpaul.meetup.com/166/messages/boards/view/viewthread%3Fthread%3D3444701%26pager.offset%3D40&iurl=http%3A//img.youtube.com/vi/w0LCf7sK64o/default.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskLX4Y4VQo5RIxWEEWPrslCa



TEXT OF E-Mail:

You are receiving this email because you are a respected leader in the Christian Community. You are likely aware that America's sovereignty and most fundamental liberties and freedoms are being undermined. As a result, the 2008 election may very well be one of the most important events in the history of the United States.

We are truly at a cross road of liberty and freedom and must think deeply about these principles and foremost, we must not rely on the national media or sound bites to choose our next leader.

I f you haven't heard or read anything about Congressman Ron Paul who is running for President, you owe it to yourself to hear what he has to say. Ron Paul's tremendous increase in popularity and financial support is as a result of his message of liberty, freedom and respect for the Constitution and the principles of our Founding Fathers.

Please take just a moment to read the 10 Reasons why Ron Paul would become one of the greatest presidents in the history of this nation. ..

1. Ron Paul is experienced, wise, well read and well respected among his congressional colleagues. Ron Paul is currently a 10 term U.S. Congressman from Texas (R) and a former Flight Surgeon in the US Air Force. He believes people are responsible for their actions, is against redistribution of wealth, government entitlement programs, and believes we as a nation should disengage from entangling ourselves in the affairs of foreign nations. He serves on the House Committee of Financial Affairs and Committee of Foreign Affairs. He has written many well respected books on the Constitution, Monetary Policy and Foreign Policy all from the perspective of the Founding Fathers.

2. Ron Paul has been a staunch defender of the life of the unborn in Congress for 20 years. He is an OB/GYN doctor that has delivered over 4000 babies and has never performed an abortion. He has introduced numerous pieces of legislation to protect the unborn and has written the book titled, Challenge To Liberty, which champions the idea that there cannot be liberty in a society unless the rights of all innocents are protected. For many other writings and speeches for life of the unborn, please visit: http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=21

3. Ron Paul believes that the Federal government should not undermine the ability of the church and the community's to require accountability from those seeking assistance. Too much federal government mandating of morality through the education and welfare systems has resulted in a lack of morality. Rather than being accountable to the Church or the community, many receive handouts from the government without accountability.

4. Ron Paul supports Church's right of Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech. Ron Paul continues to support legislation to bring an end to the IRS meddling and infringements of the rights of Churches' First amendment's guarantee of free exercise of religion. For Congressman's Paul explanation of how the IRS is limiting the freedom of religion and the freedom of speech, please visit This Link: http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=470

5. Ron Paul is a defender of the Christian Just War Doctrine . As president he will apply strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force and make it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. Before committing to the use of military force it must be shown that the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations will be lasting, grave, and certain. All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective. There must be serious prospects of success and the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated.

6. Ron Paul believes we should get our troops home from the 130 nations around the world and protect America's borders and shores. We are defending the borders of foreign nations while leaving our borders wide open. The US is also borrowing trillions of dollars from foreign countries to give away to other countries all at the expense of the American taxpayer.

7. Ron Paul believes in rebuilding the financial strength of America . No other politicians are talking about America's current $9.0 trillion of debt, half of which is owed to foreign nations many of which are not friendly to us. He is concerned about the declining value of the dollar. Ron Paul is committed to stopping the federal governments borrowing, taxing and spending frenzy before it is too late.

8. Ron Paul believes in protecting all of the Constitution. He is endorsed by the Gun Owners of America, and has voted against any legislation that undermines American's most cherished liberties. He is against any legislation that seeks to infringe Americans freedom of Speech or undermine citizen's constitutional protection against warrantless searches, warrantless wire taps of Americans, or secret military courts that can be used to try American citizens. Ron Paul's integrity in uncompromised. His is not beholden to any lobbyist or special interest group. He is beholden to the people and the US Constitution.

9. Ron Paul believes that in a true constitutional republic as contemplated by the founders of this country and bases his decisions and votes in Congress upon this philosophy and fundamental principles rather than public opinion polls.

10. Ron Paul believes in protecting the sovereignty of the United States and protecting American Jobs. He believes we should end our involvement in the "managed trade agreements of NAFTA, CAFTA and cease out involvement in the World Trade Organization. Current estimates are that 1.5 million American jobs have been lost as a result of our involvement in these organizations. He believes we should send our troops into combat once a Declaration of War is issued by Congress and not under UN Resolutions made by appointed non elected foreigners.


The links below will take you to some very informative documents:

1. "A Republic if You Can Keep IT" – is a mini book about the current condition of the United States written by Dr. Paul. Link: http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=887

2. "Statement of Faith" by Ron Paul. Link:http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=916

3. Statement Honoring Pope John Paul II. Link: http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=573

4. Endorsement by Baptist Minister supporting Ron Paul. Link: http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin398.htm

5. "A Foreign Policy of Peace" by Ron Paul. Link:http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=679

You can find additional information at RonPaul2008.com or read many of Ron Paul's numerous speeches and papers at The Ron Paul Library