Where has American culture gone?

[Patriot123]

Please read this topic, and give your two cents...

For months, if not years, this question has been in my head, and I can't seem to get it out... The question is: where has American culture gone, and/or did we ever have any? What is our culture? Fast food? Burger King? McDonalds? Subway? Consuming and wasting? That's not culture... think about non-industrialized nations - or nations "not so" industrialized as the rest of the world...
Think about Mexico. Belize. Syria. African nations. Native American tribes. They all have culture. They have cultural food, they have a culture. Mexico has chicken and rice, and Mexican art. Belize has Fry Jacks, Chimole, flour tortillas... they have cultural music, songs, big celebrations for marriages... Syria has a culture of education, self discipline, family, religion... they have a strong tradition of literature, art... they have felofol, shish kebab's, religion... Native Americans have tribal dances, and ways of life that are very unique to their separate tribes... art, discipline, family... all of these nations or tribes have culture. What about the United States? What about us? What culture do we have? A burger with fries? Do we even have any culture? Have we ever, in our entire history?
You could say Thanksgiving is very unique to American culture, but is that even our culture anymore? Has it ever been? Hasn't it become too commercialized to even be considered culture? Now it's more like, "take a plate of greasy American food and watch some football." Do we even have cultural American food? Food that we can actually call cultural American food? Other than fast food? Food that we didn't steal from other countries and just call our own?
You could say that Christmas is American culture. But is it? Now, you can't even say "Merry Christmas" without creating a whole big fuss. Mind you, that's coming from someone who's Jewish.
This nation used to be almost strictly Anglo-Saxons, originating from Britain. That was before the late 1800's. Did they have any culture? Can that culture be seen as American culture? Could it be a culture of adherence to the law? Our Constitution? Limited government? I would argue against that -- throughout our history, our Constitution and the whole "limited government" thing have just been used as political playing cards. We've never really kept to the Constitution, and we've never really kept to limited government, either. So to say either of those are a part of American culture is just plain wrong, in my opinion. And even then, do we have any cultural food? Cultural food, after all, is a big part of culture. Where's ours?

So enough rambling. Do Americans have any real, solid culture? Do we have any cultural food? No, not fast food, or buying and consuming, or being materialistic, or anything like "a culture of being generous and caring..." I mean real culture, that can be put in to the same category as other cultures of the world. Like the culture of Mexico, Spain, Belize, Native American tribes... If we do, what is it? If we don't, why?

[LittleLightShining]

Please read this topic, and give your two cents...

For months, if not years, this question has been in my head, and I can't seem to get it out... The question is: where has American culture gone, and/or did we ever have any? What is our culture? Fast food? Burger King? McDonalds? Subway? Consuming and wasting? That's not culture... think about non-industrialized nations - or nations "not so" industrialized as the rest of the world...
Think about Mexico. Belize. Syria. African nations. Native American tribes. They all have culture. They have cultural food, they have a culture. Mexico has chicken and rice, and Mexican art. Belize has Fry Jacks, Chimole, flour tortillas... they have cultural music, songs, big celebrations for marriages... Syria has a culture of education, self discipline, family, religion... they have a strong tradition of literature, art... they have felofol, shish kebab's, religion... Native Americans have tribal dances, and ways of life that are very unique to their separate tribes... art, discipline, family... all of these nations or tribes have culture. What about the United States? What about us? What culture do we have? A burger with fries? Do we even have any culture? Have we ever, in our entire history?
You could say Thanksgiving is very unique to American culture, but is that even our culture anymore? Has it ever been? Hasn't it become too commercialized to even be considered culture? Now it's more like, "take a plate of greasy American food and watch some football." Do we even have cultural American food? Food that we can actually call cultural American food? Other than fast food? Food that we didn't steal from other countries and just call our own?
You could say that Christmas is American culture. But is it? Now, you can't even say "Merry Christmas" without creating a whole big fuss. Mind you, that's coming from someone who's Jewish.
This nation used to be almost strictly Anglo-Saxons, originating from Britain. That was before the late 1800's. Did they have any culture? Can that culture be seen as American culture? Could it be a culture of adherence to the law? Our Constitution? Limited government? I would argue against that -- throughout our history, our Constitution and the whole "limited government" thing have just been used as political playing cards. We've never really kept to the Constitution, and we've never really kept to limited government, either. So to say either of those are a part of American culture is just plain wrong, in my opinion. And even then, do we have any cultural food? Cultural food, after all, is a big part of culture. Where's ours?

So enough rambling. Do Americans have any real, solid culture? Do we have any cultural food? No, not fast food, or buying and consuming, or being materialistic, or anything like "a culture of being generous and caring..." I mean real culture, that can be put in to the same category as other cultures of the world. Like the culture of Mexico, Spain, Belize, Native American tribes... If we do, what is it? If we don't, why?
Sad, huh? :(

Going by the types of cultural examples you've given I'd say real American culture is more regionally based than national. Regionally food is very different, as are language and recreation.

But there are other types of culture that are uniquely American and copied in other places... music-- jazz, blues, rap, hip-hop. Suburbs seem to be a pretty American thing.

[Blueskies]

We have a lot of culture. You just don't see it because you are emerged in it and we export much of it to the rest of the world.

Baseball, basketball, football; hamburgers, hot dogs, baby back ribs, fried chicken, barbecue; rap, rock&roll, pop; Hawthorne, Thoreau, Rand, Twain, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, etc.; "The Wild West", the hippies, our unique obsession with cars

And yes: limited government and free enterprise. We complain about it on this board constantly, but the truth is the US has embraced limited government and free enterprise more so than perhaps any government ever. We are the most individualistic culture in the world.

[Akus]

Our culture is $$. We are descendants of the pioneers of the frontier. This country has become great because of the ruthless natural selection, where the not so smart and not so quick didn't just eat bad food and slept under leaky roof in the cold, they died.

Our culture is an individualism. The "step on the other's throat before they step on you" individualism. We are so powerful because of that culture.

[heavenlyboy34]

There are plenty of cultural styles that are uniquely American. If it weren't for the government sucking the life (money) out of the regional/local communities, I suspect it would be more obvious. JMHO. For a few-there would be no recorded music, digital art, film, or electric guitar were it not for the American private sector(not the government).

[steve005]

i completely agree with this post, thats why I'm planning on coming up with my own culture to pass on to my kids

[Patriot123]

Going by the types of cultural examples you've given I'd say real American culture is more regionally based than national. Regionally food is very different, as are language and recreation.
Exactly. So technically, America has no national culture. We may have pockets of culture in parts of the country, but really we have no single uniform culture throughout the entire country.


Baseball, basketball, football; hamburgers, hot dogs, baby back ribs, fried chicken, barbecue; rap, rock&roll, pop; Hawthorne, Thoreau, Rand, Twain, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, etc.; "The Wild West", the hippies, our unique obsession with cars

And yes: limited government and free enterprise. We complain about it on this board constantly, but the truth is the US has embraced limited government and free enterprise more so than perhaps any government ever. We are the most individualistic culture in the world.
Wrong. Hamburgers, or rather as it was once called, "Hamburg steaks" were German, and thus brought over to the US by Germans. Hotdogs also came from Germany. Baby Back Ribs, otherwise known as pork ribs or spare ribs, really originated more from China than here in the US. Fried chicken originated in Scotland and West Africa. Cooking meat over a fire is more of a global thing than an American thing, right? Cavemen cooking meat over a fire? As for those famous writers, do a majority of Americans actually care about those people? I think not, thus it isn't culture -- more like history. "The Wild West" is more like a mentality or something more closely related to the frontier than American culture - it doesn't exist today, too. "Hippie-ism" isn't culture that can be identified with cultures of the world - it fits more into the "weird not-so much like culture" group of fast food and fast-paced industrialism. Same goes for cars and modern day music.
If it's such a large part of our culture, why don't we all, as Americans, gather around those ideas? Why do you have 75% of the country advocating socialism? If it is culture, it's culture of the 1700's, and of our founding fathers, sadly. Or rather, a heritage. Heritage is different from culture.

[Dieseler]

My culture was always based around hard work and family.
Toss in a little freedom, baseball and happy times and you have the culture I was raised in.
What the fuck is wrong with that?

[Andrew-Austin]

Culture isn't something specific to geographical territories anymore, this has become increasingly true with the advances of communication technology technology that decentralize the points that people rally around. Just look at us, we live far away from each other, some of us in different countries.

[legion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_culture

I'm sure there are classes you can take at your local university if you are confused by this.

[Bossobass]

Exactly. So technically, America has no national culture. We may have pockets of culture in parts of the country, but really we have no single uniform culture throughout the entire country.


Wrong. Hamburgers, or rather as it was once called, "Hamburg steaks" were German, and thus brought over to the US by Germans. Hotdogs also came from Germany. Baby Back Ribs, otherwise known as pork ribs or spare ribs, really originated more from China than here in the US. Fried chicken originated in Scotland and West Africa. Cooking meat over a fire is more of a global thing than an American thing, right? Cavemen cooking meat over a fire? As for those famous writers, do a majority of Americans actually care about those people? I think not, thus it isn't culture -- more like history. "The Wild West" is more like a mentality or something more closely related to the frontier than American culture - it doesn't exist today, too. "Hippie-ism" isn't culture that can be identified with cultures of the world - it fits more into the "weird not-so much like culture" group of fast food and fast-paced industrialism. Same goes for cars and modern day music.
If it's such a large part of our culture, why don't we all, as Americans, gather around those ideas? Why do you have 75% of the country advocating socialism? If it is culture, it's culture of the 1700's, and of our founding fathers, sadly. Or rather, a heritage. Heritage is different from culture.

It's hard to figure out what your point is here. You compare thousands of years old 'cultures' to a country that's 250 years old.

It used to be the country where anyone could emigrate to who had a dream, and, through unfathomable determination and tireless effort, could make that dream a reality.

America, IMHO, was the land of the entrepreneur, the innovators for the world. Besides the mention of baseball, football, rock music, jazz, folk, bluegrass, movies, musicals, etc., here is just a small fraction of the results of "The Melting Pot", where all cultures of the world came to become infected by the explosion of innovation:

submarine
nuclear submarine
space shuttle
moon landings
cotton gin
telephone
the assembly line
the super computer
Levi jeans
television
TV remote control
Dolby AC3 surround sound
sewing machine
dishwasher
artificial heart
GUI
barcode
video game
optical fiber
heart-lung machine
laser
polaroid camera
Kodak camera
wirephoto
rocket
nylon
4 wheel drive
intermittent wipers
electric guitar
electro-magnetic motor
spray gun
revolver
coffee pot
air conditioning
vulcanized rubber
telegraph
cylinder printing press
false teeth
passenger elevator
burglar alarm
oil well
oil pipeline
roller skates
structural steel bridge
phonograph
hearing aid
electric fan
skyscraper
roller coaster
gasoline powered car
escalator
airplane
double edged safety razor
player piano
electric car starter
frozen food
computer
micro computer
operating system
genetic engineering
nuclear power

And on, and on, and on... one helluva history-making culture, IMO.

Unfortunately, America gave up control of it's currency and monetary policy to worthless greedy heels who have turned every innovation into a franchise and employed our military as witless hit men, while causing the dumbing down of the population in an astounding way.

Most innovations today are starved out, bought out or worse.

Bosso

[Dieseler]

It's hard to figure out what your point is here. You compare thousands of years old 'cultures' to a country that's 250 years old.

It used to be the country where anyone could emigrate to who had a dream, and, through unfathomable determination and tireless effort, could make that dream a reality.

America, IMHO, was the land of the entrepreneur, the innovators for the world. Besides the mention of baseball, football, rock music, jazz, folk, bluegrass, movies, musicals, etc., here is just a small fraction of the results of "The Melting Pot", where all cultures of the world came to become infected by the explosion of innovation:

submarine
nuclear submarine
space shuttle
moon landings
cotton gin
telephone
the assembly line
the super computer
Levi jeans
television
TV remote control
Dolby AC3 surround sound
sewing machine
dishwasher
artificial heart
GUI
barcode
video game
optical fiber
heart-lung machine
laser
polaroid camera
Kodak camera
wirephoto
rocket
nylon
4 wheel drive
intermittent wipers
electric guitar
electro-magnetic motor
spray gun
revolver
coffee pot
air conditioning
vulcanized rubber
telegraph
cylinder printing press
false teeth
passenger elevator
burglar alarm
oil well
oil pipeline
roller skates
structural steel bridge
phonograph
hearing aid
electric fan
skyscraper
roller coaster
gasoline powered car
escalator
airplane
double edged safety razor
player piano
electric car starter
frozen food
computer
micro computer
operating system
genetic engineering
nuclear power

And on, and on, and on... one helluva history-making culture, IMO.

Unfortunately, America gave up control of it's currency and monetary policy to worthless greedy heels who have turned every innovation into a franchise and employed our military as witless hit men, while causing the dumbing down of the population in an astounding way.

Most innovations today are starved out, bought out or worse.

Bosso

+1000
Our heart still beats Boss.
The heart and culture of America is the people and
We ain't dead yet.
No matter what some might wish to believe.

[BenIsForRon]

I don't see stuff like McDonald's and Walmart as part of culture, I see it as more of "anti-culture", something that eats away at the soul of man.

Culture is still thriving in America, though. It's just not one, unifying culture, but more regional and lifestyle based, peppered throughout the country. Pot is going to become legal in California because of the culture that has been developing there since the 60's.

[Dieseler]

I don't see stuff like McDonald's and Walmart as part of culture, I see it as more of "anti-culture", something that eats away at the soul of man.

Culture is still thriving in America, though. It's just not one, unifying culture, but more regional and lifestyle based, peppered throughout the country. Pot is going to become legal in California because of the culture that has been developing there since the 60's.

If pot is legalized in California, it will be for revenue.

[Kludge]

//

[Patriot123]

It's hard to figure out what your point is here. You compare thousands of years old 'cultures' to a country that's 250 years old.

It used to be the country where anyone could emigrate to who had a dream, and, through unfathomable determination and tireless effort, could make that dream a reality.

America, IMHO, was the land of the entrepreneur, the innovators for the world. Besides the mention of baseball, football, rock music, jazz, folk, bluegrass, movies, musicals, etc., here is just a small fraction of the results of "The Melting Pot", where all cultures of the world came to become infected by the explosion of innovation:

submarine
nuclear submarine
space shuttle
moon landings
cotton gin
telephone
the assembly line
the super computer
Levi jeans
television
TV remote control
Dolby AC3 surround sound
sewing machine
dishwasher
artificial heart
GUI
barcode
video game
optical fiber
heart-lung machine
laser
polaroid camera
Kodak camera
wirephoto
rocket
nylon
4 wheel drive
intermittent wipers
electric guitar
electro-magnetic motor
spray gun
revolver
coffee pot
air conditioning
vulcanized rubber
telegraph
cylinder printing press
false teeth
passenger elevator
burglar alarm
oil well
oil pipeline
roller skates
structural steel bridge
phonograph
hearing aid
electric fan
skyscraper
roller coaster
gasoline powered car
escalator
airplane
double edged safety razor
player piano
electric car starter
frozen food
computer
micro computer
operating system
genetic engineering
nuclear power

And on, and on, and on... one helluva history-making culture, IMO.

Unfortunately, America gave up control of it's currency and monetary policy to worthless greedy heels who have turned every innovation into a franchise and employed our military as witless hit men, while causing the dumbing down of the population in an astounding way.

Most innovations today are starved out, bought out or worse.

Bosso

But this doesn't equate to culture. Yes - America is a melting pot of all different cultures. As a country, we don't have a single uniform culture like other countries. Having a tradition of entrepreneurship and hard work isn't the kind of culture that can be put into the same group as those of other countries -- Mexico, Belize, Brazil... these are countries that are relatively new, too, mind you. Belize declared their independence on September 21st, 1981, making them twenty eight years old. They were settled in the same century as the US. They have more culture than us, by far. We have none. We have industrialism and corporatism That doesn't amount to culture. Just work ethic that, mind you, is long gone.


Isn't all culture regional and not national except for mandates by the gov't ("official" languages, nationally recognized days, etc.)? The original Americans' culture was largely influenced by the resources around them. The US covers an extraordinary amount of land, and even still our regional cultures are due almost exclusively due to our environment (what types of food/material is available, whether it rains often, temperature, etc.).
What about Russia? Spain? The ancient Anglo-Saxons?

[emazur]

I'm an American who used to live in Japan after finishing school - prior to leaving America, my idea of American culture was that we were not a culture, just a "fast food" nation of automatons that simply adopt whatever fad is popular at the moment. This attitude was fostered by the intolerable group-think I witnessed while at public school and college.

When in my teens, I developed an interest in things Japanese b/c of my interest in video games and anime (the artwork, characters, and the music appealed to me), by the time I was twenty or so I developed more of an interest in world music and culture. My image at that time of the Japanese was that they were a more stoic and intelligent people who didn't fall for the latest bullshit, and that they had a respect for their traditions - open up a book on Japan and take a look at the pictures - you'll see images that seem distinctly Japanese and you'll probably come away with the impression that it is a very different country with its own unique culture.

My conclusion after living there for 5+ years is that like Americans, the Japanese are also a very westernized fast food culture. Music? Good luck finding people (young or old) that enjoy music that makes use of traditional Japanese instruments like the koto (harp), shamisen (3-stringed instrument), biwa (lute), and shakuhachi (flute). Good luck even finding such music on the Japanese radio stations (whose DJ's impersonate the idiotic American ones), or finding parents who encourage their children to learn these instruments - they tend to go for the piano or guitar and such. The youth like Japanese rock and pop and some western music like Mariah Carey and Coldplay, while the middle aged like the Beach Boys. Real Japanese music is too "old fashioned". So do they think to maybe update these "old fashioned" musics and instruments by combining them with modern styles and modern instruments to create something new yet distinctly Japanese? With few exceptions, no. And from my observations, the people who do do this to Japanese music tend not to even be Japanese.

Clothing? Jeans and t-shirts are the norm, Japanese clothing is too "old fashioned", and once again, with few exceptions the Japanese don't think to modernize them. Which is a shame, because if you take a look at the stuff shown on the following 2 links you'll find some pretty cool looking stuff. You won't easily find such things at the clothing shops in Japan - I somehow managed to, and the Japanese were asking me where I bought such and such article of clothing.
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/gyro_x_minicar/folder/1100514.html
http://www.utsura.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=109&PHPSESSID=7f553979a1ce6eb3b2dae1b0beec4776
When you see modern day pictures of Japanese wearing Japanese style clothing, its most likely for a special event like a summer fireworks special.

Architecture? If you look at pictures in books, you'll find some pretty cool looking things, but remember that Japan is a very old country and that these things are mostly remnants of the past that don't really reflect Japanese culture of today. There are both western-style and Japanese style houses available, but increasingly the Japanese ones are seen as too "old fashioned". I'll guess that in a few generations, the Japanese ones will be nearly obsolete, and the only distinctly Japanese architecture you'll find are the old remnants from the past like shrines and temples that will never be torn down.

Those are just a sampling of the Japanese cultural creations that are going by the wayside or down the wrong path (don't even get me started on language), yet when I would say to a Japanese person or western person in Japan that Japan had become way too westernized, they don't think about things like the music, the clothing, or the architecture. Their first response is something like "oh, you mean like all the McDonalds and the Starbucks?". No Actually, if there's one aspect of Japanese culture that they haven't abandoned, it's the food. I'm talking about real culture. I believe that most people (Americans, Japanese, or other nationalities) not only don't care about real culture, they can't recognize it. That's a generalization of course and I think there are exceptions (I think India may be one), but I haven't been to other foreign countries so I can't say for sure.

I think the other posters gave good examples of American culture. There's plenty of distinct American culture out there, but remember that unlike old countries in Europe or Japan, America doesn't have so many remnants of the past to rest its laurels on. America is pretty dynamic and I think offers a great variety of culture that it has integrated - just within 2 miles of my apartment you can find Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Mexican, Hawaiin, and sports restaurants all on one street, and if I head into downtown about 3 to 4 miles the other way into downtown, there's even more variety to be found. And that's just what's available outwardly - I used to live in northern Alabama, not what people normally think of a as a cultural cornucopia, but there's a festival every year and part of that is the different ethnic groups who come by to give musical performances or show off their culture and country in a different way, and there's a pretty rich variety. America has its own culture and offers a menu of different cultural aspects within its own country, and is better off for it. Multiculturalism isn't a dirty word - as long as those from other cultures come here to work, reject socialism, and learn the language we are better off for having them here.

Patriot123, have you been to other countries? I talked about the lessons I learned from living in Japan - just b/c things seem bad here, doesn't mean the other countries are better off. My understanding is that the French government is trying to do a great deal to preserve a distinct French heritage b/c the French people in general don't seem to really give a damn about culture. It's not very libertarian of me to say so, but I don't think it's a bad thing for the government to take a few measures to try to promote its country's own heritage within its own borders (though in fact the federal government here seems to be doing a pretty good job of undermining our American heritage through the public school system).

[amonasro]

From a musical perspective:

Musicals--Rodgers & Hammerstein, Kern, etc.
Jazz, Hip Hop, R&B, Country
Minimalism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAE3fsDz0I)

[Patriot123]

I'm an American who used to live in Japan after finishing school - prior to leaving America, my idea of American culture was that we were not a culture, just a "fast food" nation of automatons that simply adopt whatever fad is popular at the moment. This attitude was fostered by the intolerable group-think I witnessed while at public school and college.

When in my teens, I developed an interest in things Japanese b/c of my interest in video games and anime (the artwork, characters, and the music appealed to me), by the time I was twenty or so I developed more of an interest in world music and culture. My image at that time of the Japanese was that they were a more stoic and intelligent people who didn't fall for the latest bullshit, and that they had a respect for their traditions - open up a book on Japan and take a look at the pictures - you'll see images that seem distinctly Japanese and you'll probably come away with the impression that it is a very different country with its own unique culture.

My conclusion after living there for 5+ years is that like Americans, the Japanese are also a very westernized fast food culture. Music? Good luck finding people (young or old) that enjoy music that makes use of traditional Japanese instruments like the koto (harp), shamisen (3-stringed instrument), biwa (lute), and shakuhachi (flute). Good luck even finding such music on the Japanese radio stations (whose DJ's impersonate the idiotic American ones), or finding parents who encourage their children to learn these instruments - they tend to go for the piano or guitar and such. The youth like Japanese rock and pop and some western music like Mariah Carey and Coldplay, while the middle aged like the Beach Boys. Real Japanese music is too "old fashioned". So do they think to maybe update these "old fashioned" musics and instruments by combining them with modern styles and modern instruments to create something new yet distinctly Japanese? With few exceptions, no. And from my observations, the people who do do this to Japanese music tend not to even be Japanese.

Clothing? Jeans and t-shirts are the norm, Japanese clothing is too "old fashioned", and once again, with few exceptions the Japanese don't think to modernize them. Which is a shame, because if you take a look at the stuff shown on the following 2 links you'll find some pretty cool looking stuff. You won't easily find such things at the clothing shops in Japan - I somehow managed to, and the Japanese were asking me where I bought such and such article of clothing.
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/gyro_x_minicar/folder/1100514.html
http://www.utsura.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=109&PHPSESSID=7f553979a1ce6eb3b2dae1b0beec4776
When you see modern day pictures of Japanese wearing Japanese style clothing, its most likely for a special event like a summer fireworks special.

Architecture? If you look at pictures in books, you'll find some pretty cool looking things, but remember that Japan is a very old country and that these things are mostly remnants of the past that don't really reflect Japanese culture of today. There are both western-style and Japanese style houses available, but increasingly the Japanese ones are seen as too "old fashioned". I'll guess that in a few generations, the Japanese ones will be nearly obsolete, and the only distinctly Japanese architecture you'll find are the old remnants from the past like shrines and temples that will never be torn down.

Those are just a sampling of the Japanese cultural creations that are going by the wayside or down the wrong path (don't even get me started on language), yet when I would say to a Japanese person or western person in Japan that Japan had become way too westernized, they don't think about things like the music, the clothing, or the architecture. Their first response is something like "oh, you mean like all the McDonalds and the Starbucks?". No Actually, if there's one aspect of Japanese culture that they haven't abandoned, it's the food. I'm talking about real culture. I believe that most people (Americans, Japanese, or other nationalities) not only don't care about real culture, they can't recognize it. That's a generalization of course and I think there are exceptions (I think India may be one), but I haven't been to other foreign countries so I can't say for sure.

I think the other posters gave good examples of American culture. There's plenty of distinct American culture out there, but remember that unlike old countries in Europe or Japan, America doesn't have so many remnants of the past to rest its laurels on. America is pretty dynamic and I think offers a great variety of culture that it has integrated - just within 2 miles of my apartment you can find Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Mexican, Hawaiin, and sports restaurants all on one street, and if I head into downtown about 3 to 4 miles the other way into downtown, there's even more variety to be found. And that's just what's available outwardly - I used to live in northern Alabama, not what people normally think of a as a cultural cornucopia, but there's a festival every year and part of that is the different ethnic groups who come by to give musical performances or show off their culture and country in a different way, and there's a pretty rich variety. America has its own culture and offers a menu of different cultural aspects within its own country, and is better off for it. Multiculturalism isn't a dirty word - as long as those from other cultures come here to work, reject socialism, and learn the language we are better off for having them here.

Patriot123, have you been to other countries? I talked about the lessons I learned from living in Japan - just b/c things seem bad here, doesn't mean the other countries are better off. My understanding is that the French government is trying to do a great deal to preserve a distinct French heritage b/c the French people in general don't seem to really give a damn about culture. It's not very libertarian of me to say so, but I don't think it's a bad thing for the government to take a few measures to try to promote its country's own heritage within its own borders (though in fact the federal government here seems to be doing a pretty good job of undermining our American heritage through the public school system).
I'm a high school student, so not exactly... the only other country I've been to is Mexico. While I appreciate how much you probably put into your post to try to explain this to me, I still disagree... you state that it only appears that our culture is different because this is all we have ever known. That we do have culture, only it's made up of many different cultures - multiculturalism. I think, while that may be true, it still doesn't mean that America as a whole has a culture. And I also find that our country tears a part other cultures... the people in this country assimilate into this "Western way of life." THey don't keep their cultures... hardly. And yes - you can argue that the US hasn't been around long enough... but what about countries like Belize? It's been around for 28 years, and was settled in the same century as the US. And it has more culture than we could ever imagine. I think "Westernism" has destroyed many cultures of the world; maybe even the Japanese culture, too. I find that people in other countries can make out their own culture; food as well as other aspects. They even make fun of America for not having any culture. I have international friends whom I have learned a lot from, notably this concept of culture in the US... They view America as this country of idiots without any culture, and they talk about how much culture their own country has.

[youngbuck]

I'd say that the "2nd amendment" or firearms culture definitely belong to America, with all that it entails. That's just one example of many. Our culture has so many possible nooks and crannies that it's hard to compare apple to apples with other cultures. That part of the reason that most foreigners don't understand us. For example, they just can't wrap their heads around why we enjoy our 2nd amendment so much.

[devil21]

I think we once had a culture of freedom and self-sufficiency. That is long gone. When people emigrated to the United States, they did their best to assimilate into this American culture and when that wasn't entirely possible, they formed their own communities and did not attempt to influence existing American culture.

Now, it is the other way around.

American culture was forced to bend to the foreigners that bring their own cultures and do not even attempt to assimilate. Over time the culture has become unrecognizable. This is nowhere more obvious than the recent hispanic immigrants that show up waving their Mexican flags and buying Modelo beer instead of waving American flags and buying Budweiser. American culture is long gone. It has been replaced by political correctness and consumption. If fatty foods are our "cultural food" and Britney Spears is our "cultural music" then we are so screwed.

[Patriot123]

I think we once had a culture of freedom and self-sufficiency. That is long gone. When people emigrated to the United States, they did their best to assimilate into this American culture and when that wasn't entirely possible, they formed their own communities and did not attempt to influence existing American culture.

Now, it is the other way around.

American culture was forced to bend to the foreigners that bring their own cultures and do not even attempt to assimilate. Over time the culture has become unrecognizable. This is nowhere more obvious than the recent hispanic immigrants that show up waving their Mexican flags and buying Modelo beer instead of waving American flags and buying Budweiser. American culture is long gone. It has been replaced by political correctness and consumption. If fatty foods are our "cultural food" and Britney Spears is our "cultural music" then we are so screwed.

We didn't, though. We embraced freedom just as much as any other people would. Our government used the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, all of it... as political playing cards to get things passed, or to stop things from being passed. They used it as justification to do something in their interest (Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War, or imperialism in the early 1900's) and justification to not do something that wasn't in their interest (The anti-Imperialists in the early 1900's). We didn't really have a "strong" culture of freedom, and I don't really know if you could call self-sufficiency a part of culture... and even if you could, I don't think it's immigrants who have chipped away at that. Actually, I think it's the immigrants who have actually made that a part of our culture, and not the Anglo-Saxon race. I think what has chipped away at the will to succeed and work hard is the fact that people in this country have become lazy. People are so wealthy that their kids don't know what it's like to work their way up... so I don't really see how you make the connection between immigrants and the decay of self-sufficiency.

[devil21]

I wasn't really making a direct connection though the current welfare state that caters to illegals and non-workers is a direct cause of the loss of self-sufficiency. My post was more about various reasons for the decay of classic American culture. Wasn't trying to directly connect them, sorry, but I see how I worded it in a way that it looks like I was.

[Blueskies]

Wrong. Hamburgers, or rather as it was once called, "Hamburg steaks" were German, and thus brought over to the US by Germans. Hotdogs also came from Germany. Baby Back Ribs, otherwise known as pork ribs or spare ribs, really originated more from China than here in the US. Fried chicken originated in Scotland and West Africa. Cooking meat over a fire is more of a global thing than an American thing, right? Cavemen cooking meat over a fire? As for those famous writers, do a majority of Americans actually care about those people? I think not, thus it isn't culture -- more like history. "The Wild West" is more like a mentality or something more closely related to the frontier than American culture - it doesn't exist today, too. "Hippie-ism" isn't culture that can be identified with cultures of the world - it fits more into the "weird not-so much like culture" group of fast food and fast-paced industrialism. Same goes for cars and modern day music.
If it's such a large part of our culture, why don't we all, as Americans, gather around those ideas? Why do you have 75% of the country advocating socialism? If it is culture, it's culture of the 1700's, and of our founding fathers, sadly. Or rather, a heritage. Heritage is different from culture.

Uh...no.

The hamburger was invented in the US. The meat may be German, but the concept of a hamburger is truly American. Same thing with hotdogs, which are vastly different from German sausage. If you think "cooking meat over a fire" is equitable with BBQ--you have no idea what you're talking about. True BBQing is a style of cooking, which you obviously know little of.

Our literature is our culture, whether or not the average American reads Faulkner is irrelevant. Would you disqualify Shakespeare from English culture? No.

Our wild west&and hippie past are a part of our culture. Would you say that the Renaissance is part of Italian culture? Its the same concept. A period of time and a cultural mindset that was uniquely American.

As for Cars and modern day music--who cares if its commercialized? Does that somehow disqualify it from cultural definition? Of course not. The 57' Chevy, the Mustang, the concept of simply cruising...these are American cultural tenets.

[Sandman33]

We have a lot of culture. You just don't see it because you are emerged in it and we export much of it to the rest of the world.

Baseball, basketball, football; hamburgers, hot dogs, baby back ribs, fried chicken, barbecue; rap, rock&roll, pop; Hawthorne, Thoreau, Rand, Twain, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, etc.; "The Wild West", the hippies, our unique obsession with cars

And yes: limited government and free enterprise. We complain about it on this board constantly, but the truth is the US has embraced limited government and free enterprise more so than perhaps any government ever. We are the most individualistic culture in the world.

THIS. Our culture is the greatest the world has ever known. Because everyone from all over the world flocked here for freedom and free people create the best things.

[ScoutsHonor]

It's hard to figure out what your point is here. You compare thousands of years old 'cultures' to a country that's 250 years old.

It used to be the country where anyone could emigrate to who had a dream, and, through unfathomable determination and tireless effort, could make that dream a reality.

America, IMHO, was the land of the entrepreneur, the innovators for the world. Besides the mention of baseball, football, rock music, jazz, folk, bluegrass, movies, musicals, etc., here is just a small fraction of the results of "The Melting Pot", where all cultures of the world came to become infected by the explosion of innovation:

submarine
nuclear submarine
space shuttle
moon landings
cotton gin
telephone
the assembly line
the super computer
Levi jeans
television
TV remote control
Dolby AC3 surround sound
sewing machine
dishwasher
artificial heart
GUI
barcode
video game
optical fiber
heart-lung machine
laser
polaroid camera
Kodak camera
wirephoto
rocket
nylon
4 wheel drive
intermittent wipers
electric guitar
electro-magnetic motor
spray gun
revolver
coffee pot
air conditioning
vulcanized rubber
telegraph
cylinder printing press
false teeth
passenger elevator
burglar alarm
oil well
oil pipeline
roller skates
structural steel bridge
phonograph
hearing aid
electric fan
skyscraper
roller coaster
gasoline powered car
escalator
airplane
double edged safety razor
player piano
electric car starter
frozen food
computer
micro computer
operating system
genetic engineering
nuclear power

And on, and on, and on... one helluva history-making culture, IMO.

Unfortunately, America gave up control of it's currency and monetary policy to worthless greedy heels who have turned every innovation into a franchise and employed our military as witless hit men, while causing the dumbing down of the population in an astounding way.

Most innovations today are starved out, bought out or worse.

Bosso

A+

[Blueskies]

What about our TV&Movie heroes? Rocky Balboa, Mickey Mouse, Star Wars?

Our obsession with the rag-to-riches motiff? No other culture reveres this as much as we do.

[YumYum]

We did have a culture. Our country was dominated by European/Christian white supremist who viewed anybody not white as inferior. Racism was our culture. It wasn't just whites hating minorities, it was the minorities hating other minorities (for example Irish catholics hating Italians), and minorities hating whites as well. Being predjudice has become unacceptable in our society, so we are forced to get along with one another, which has destroyed our culture and created enormous resentments. We have too many people from too many ethnic backgrouds to have a national culture. I feel the one culture that is taking hold in our youth in just about every ethnic group is the culture of the African American. The majority of young people want to be black.

[emazur]

Well multiculturalism fills in many gaps that come from us being a young country, but I do indeed think we have many unique cultural aspects.

How many countries can stake claim to creating 3 "national" sports? The saying "as American as apple pie" of course refers to baseball, we also have basketball, and hardly anyone outside of the US gives a damn about football. When I think of countries that have their own unique national sports, the only one that comes to mind is Japan and sumo wrestling. Speaking of wrestling, I don't know for sure, but I'll bet pro-wrestling is an American creation.

As for food, I used to live in NY (where pizza as we know it was invented BTW - another victory for the USA), but moved down south when I was in elementary school. I remember things were different. Besides the fact they didn't have as good a pizza (New Yorkers use a different kind of oven), I decided to have a look at wikipedia on Southern cuisine to remind me of how it was:

Some other foods commonly associated with the South are mint juleps, pecan pie, country ham, fried chicken, chicken fried steak, grits, buttermilk biscuits, especially with gravy or sorghum, pimento cheese, sweet tea, pit barbecue, catfish, fried green tomatoes, fried dill pickles, bread pudding, okra, butter beans, pinto beans, turnip, collard, or mustard greens, and black eyed peas. A common snack food, in season, is boiled peanuts.
I didn't really see some of that stuff when I lived in NY, so there are different food cultures within the US. And remember that the US is a very large country, so it shouldn't be surprising if things don't always spread uniformly across the United States. That doesn't mean something shouldn't be considered American.

While on the subject of the South, I can also tell you there is a Civil War culture that goes on down there. My high school team was called the "Rebels". Civil War memorabilia abounds in the South. There are Civil War reenactments. Southerners also have a different accent not heard outside of America, as do New Yorkers. Ways of speaking certainly make up a unique culture. I didn't even know I had an accent until my family left NY.

Music - are we not the birthplace of rock 'n roll? Did not jazz, rap, and country music come from the USA? This music not only shook up the American music scene, but that of the world. Do you think in Belize has spawned anywhere even close to the the very diverse musical styles that come from the USA? Can you name one country that has?

Movies? American movies are the envy of the world (and I don't know for sure, but I'll be America is the birthplace of the film industry). Go into a Japanese video store or movie theater, and the number of Hollwood movies available will greatly outnumber their nationally produced movies. I can't say for sure, but I'll bet it's pretty much the same story in every country. I do watch foreign movies also, and there are some really, really good ones, but generally speaking American movies are deservedly king.

Did America create unique clothing styles? Although probably not the best examples, hip-hop clothing was born here, and probably so was goth.

I'm sure I can go on, but the point I'm trying to make is that the US does indeed have unique culture - it's not always found uniformly throughout the country, but we have a big country so that's to be expected. Multiculturalism complements our culture. Are other countries like Belize overflowing with their own unique cultures? I don't know much about Belize, but one of the points I wanted to make in my first post is that you might be surprised just how little people have an interest in their own cultures, despite how things may seem. Don't assume that b/c things seem bad here, that they are any better in a different culture. And it may seem tempting to say Westernization has wiped out many cultures, but if you want my take, its b/c most people all over the world in general don't care about culture, they care about what's popular. Unfortunate, but true (IMO). Sometimes there are excuses though, such as the colonization of old. In the case of Japan, it used to be isolationist but in the 19th century, American ships forced Japan into trading with America. It wasn't the trading itself that Westernized Japan, but the Japanese didn't like being bullied by the Americans, and so adopted Western ways of life in order to be able to defend itself.

Also keep in mind that richness in culture is subjective. I often thought the Japanese were disappointing and waaay to Westernized, other people I met didn't see it that way.

So, your international friends think Americans are uncultured idiots like you see on those Jay Walking skits put out by the tonight show? Ask them:
"America is the birthplace of jazz, rap, rock, baseball, basketball, football, & pro wrestling. We are a big country and have different foods in different regions of the country from brick-oven pizza in New York to grits and pecan pies in the south. Hollywood forged the film industry and American movies are world renowned. We like our jeans and t-shirts, but so do many countries, and we are a driving force of new fashion styles like hip-hop and goth that other countries wind up copying:
http://www.thisiscrystalkay.com/2009/01/30/teriyaki-boys-coming-to-america/
http://www.motifake.com/japanese-goth-shock-demotivational-poster-47923.html
We did all this in more in a country less than 250 years old, and a good fifth of the states only joined within the last hundred years or so. What the hell has your country done in the last 250 years that so greatly contributes to culture? And your previous cultural contributions - were they formed in a vacuum or were they influenced by the peoples of neighboring countries?"

As for Americans being dumb, they may have a point, but probably vastly overestimate the intelligence of people living in other countries, including their own. I had the impression that the Japanese were a serious, studious, intelligent people before I went there. Not so much after living there. International test scores don't tell the whole story.

[Brian4Liberty]

Our obsession with the rag-to-riches motiff?

Horatio Alger was a gay pedophile, which was the real purpose behind his stories about taking in wayward boys...

[Brian4Liberty]

Yes - America is a melting pot of all different cultures. As a country, we don't have a single uniform culture like other countries.

We are the Borg. Your culture will be assimilated and added to our collective... ;)

You seem to be making a lot of comparisons to countries that you have not visited. Sometimes that leads to idealized impressions that are not reality.

[Expatriate]

I'd say that the "2nd amendment" or firearms culture definitely belong to America, with all that it entails. That's just one example of many. Our culture has so many possible nooks and crannies that it's hard to compare apple to apples with other cultures. That part of the reason that most foreigners don't understand us. For example, they just can't wrap their heads around why we enjoy our 2nd amendment so much.

QFT. Hope we can keep at least some of that particularly vital part of our culture.

Ironic, ain't it though. Hoping the government will have the mercy to let us keep something which happens to have the express purpose of making us not have to hope for government mercy...

[CapitalistRadical]

There is more to culture than music and food. Culture is really the unspoken attitude towards family, work, and the world. It is only visible in differences. Spend some time overseas, or become good friends with foreigners, and you'll see all sorts of comfortable assumptions be questioned. Really, there are profound cultural differences between the different regions of America.

Europeans, for instance, find it almost impossible to wrap their head around why Americans might resist Single-Payer healthcare. When I was in Africa, people would shake my hand and hold it for half a minute. In southeast Asia, adults give up their subway seats for children.

[Vessol]

American culture is a missmash of various other cultures. And like all other cultures, American culture evolves, though it evolves faster then others.

[vonMises]

....
This nation used to be almost strictly Anglo-Saxons, originating from Britain. That was before the late 1800's. Did they have any culture? Can that culture be seen as American culture? Could it be a culture of adherence to the law? Our Constitution? Limited government? I would argue against that -- throughout our history, our Constitution and the whole "limited government" thing have just been used as political playing cards. We've never really kept to the Constitution, and we've never really kept to limited government, either. So to say either of those are a part of American culture is just plain wrong, in my opinion. And even then, do we have any cultural food? Cultural food, after all, is a big part of culture. Where's ours?


Note, I'm half writing this as it is almost 4 AM where I live....

Yes, this country was founded and maintained primarily by Anglo-Saxon men and women (with some Anglo-Norman, Scots-Irish and West African slaves mixed in). The Constitution borrows many Ancient Roman and Greek elements, but the general ethos that created and made this country great is mostly the domain of ethnically pure English persons and their descendants. Even when they lived in mud huts in what is now the north-western forests of present day Germany, during what was then the Ancient Roman Empire, this hardy race has always been self-governing and individualistic, so it's quite natural that they seek limited forms of government. Whether their individualism, enterprise, industriousness, hyper-masculinity, and womanly chastity, etc, is the result of 1000 years of good culture or breeding, they simply are what they are.

It seems to me that Anglo-Saxon Americans are a complete minority now to really affect or define US culture, institutions or identity anymore. But if I think about it, even during times when Anglo-Americans started to become relative minorities because of "white ethnic" immigrations in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, they were still able to put these "white ethnics" in their proper places. Anglo-Americans went to such lengths as outlawing the German language in certain states, adhered to job discrimination by surname, did not hire people that didn't come from whiter-than-white Protestant denominations, union-busting, equating the Irish as lower than Negroes, organizing the women suffrage movement (which was primarily organized by elite, wealthy white women of whiter-than-white surnames who were vehement racists despite their abolishionism years before), founded the eugenics movement, started the public school system (to control unruly ethnics), etc., etc., all done in an effort to control "white ethnics" and to maintain Anglo-Saxon ethnic hegemony. So if they were able to maintain "American culture" as their own for such long periods of time after their ancestors first colonized America (a culture that emphasized self-government, self-sufficiency, etc.), they seemed to have done it by putting "ethnics" in their place. Perhaps it was when "white ethnics" finally empowered themselves through outlets like the Mafia, teacher unions, the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), etc., and organized such mass movements like the Sexual Revolution, Universal Health Insurance and even Universal Healthcare (do a random search of writers who support Universal Health Insurance and keep an eye on the surnames that sound ethnic)--Anglo-Saxon hegemony, it's culture, principles, and institutions can only last so long.

There is still an Anglo-Saxon ascendancy that predominates the politics of certain states and cities, and corporations. But Saxons are a dying breed of men. And for the most part now, those in power at national levels, corporate and politically, are a hodgepodge of ethnic surnames. And in some areas of the power establishment, those surnames are mostly Jewish.

[vonMises]

I'm an American who used to live in Japan after finishing school - prior to leaving America, my idea of American culture was that we were not a culture, just a "fast food" nation of automatons that simply adopt whatever fad is popular at the moment. This attitude was fostered by the intolerable group-think I witnessed while at public school and college.

I assume that you are white, but what ethnicity are you?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I think not recognizing your own culture is like not recognizing you have a accent, you really need to go visit different places. I also think different parts of America have a different culture :)

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

I would say that America has it's own " culture " even though, it would seem, that the American Dream tends to have the effect of severing people from their roots.

Without knowledge and appreciation of one's ancestry, it is indeed difficult to have any kind of meaningful existence.

Although there are probably some very great points about individualism, these days it is difficult not to feel that perhaps it has gone too far.

[amy31416]

I read a long, but very interesting, interview on overpopulation and strains on resources this morning...one of the many intriguing points that Dr. Garrett Hardin makes is this:


PLOWBOY: Haven't you speculated—in your writings—that the lack of concern for ancestry in our Western civilizations is one of the reasons that we seem unable to feel concern for a future that we won't live to see?

HARDIN: I have and I base my feelings about the matter on a statement by Edmund Burke: "People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors. " The idea seems plausible to me, and ignorance about the past may be one of the weaknesses of our society here in the United States ... we've grown so fast and become so mobile that most of us know very little about our forefathers and—MOTHERS. In Burke's day, on the other hand, it was not uncommon for people to live in family homes: ancestral dwellings that had probably been around for 200 years or more! There were pictures on the walls-of Great-Aunt Gertrude or Great—Uncle Harry—and these paintings represented real people, individuals whose life stories were familiar to succeeding generations. Nowadays, of course, many children don't even have contact with their grandparents.

There's many other interesting, and rather hardcore notions in the article (as in helping Bangladesh by sending food aid only harms them in the long term, which I do believe is the case.) If you'd like to read, the entire article is here: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1979-05-01/Garrett-Hardin.aspx

[LibertyEagle]

If it's such a large part of our culture, why don't we all, as Americans, gather around those ideas? Why do you have 75% of the country advocating socialism? If it is culture, it's culture of the 1700's, and of our founding fathers, sadly. Or rather, a heritage. Heritage is different from culture.

You are confusing what we have allowed to happen to our country vs. what we used to be. Our culture was not based upon something so inane as the type of food we ate. It had to do with rugged individualism, personal responsibility, limited government, capitalism, etc.

[eOs]

You are confusing what we have allowed to happen to our country vs. what we used to be. Our culture was not based upon something so inane as the type of food we ate. It had to do with rugged individualism, personal responsibility, limited government, capitalism, etc.

The type of food you eat is part of culture.

[LibertyEagle]

The type of food you eat is part of culture.

Fair enough. But, it is a very small part of it. You are losing site of the important things that used to be America. i.e. If you don't work, you won't eat. If you have a dream and are willing to work hard enough and long enough to achieve it, whether you attain it or not will be in your own hands. Worded better than this, but things of this nature.

One of the ways to take down a country is to destroy it from within. Cause people to lose any concept of what America was and what made it great. To make them question the very existence of what this country was all about.

They've done a good job.

[Revolution0918]

...first read Democracy in America, and in my opinion, it is the individual that made America great, and thus was our culture....sadly we all know that this country is fucked now cuz that is gone, but it still survives in some parts of the country, in smaller towns, i live in Colorado, and i swear spending time in some of the small mountain towns show you what this country was founded on and spose to b like.

[Deborah K]

American Culture includes:

Celebrating:
Independence Day
Birthdays
Weddings
Holy Days
Graduations
Promotions

Our pass-time includes:
Sports activities and events
BBQs
Theatre
Box Office Features
Camping
Recreational Parks

We expect our children:
to have a highschool diploma at the very least
learn a trade
become independent
act responsibly

Americans are:
charitable
innovative
proud of their families and country
brave
resourceful


These are some of the characteristics of the American culture.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

...first read Democracy in America, and in my opinion, it is the individual that made America great, and thus was our culture....sadly we all know that this country is fucked now cuz that is gone, but it still survives in some parts of the country, in smaller towns, i live in Colorado, and i swear spending time in some of the small mountain towns show you what this country was founded on and spose to b like.

I agree with that... it's just that so many individuals of today seem to be completely oblivious to their roots, perhaps to the detriment of themselves and their country.

[emazur]

I assume that you are white, but what ethnicity are you?

white American-born w/ Finnish/Ukrainian heritage