Perfect evidence against the war on drugs

[Reason]

Perfect evidence against the war on drugs

YouTube - GIVING HEROIN ADDICTS HEROIN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw9WE1HACH0)

[getch36]

cool...............

[Expatriate]

Good find. I'm sending this video to some people.

[Expatriate]

Heh, maybe there would be more of an incentive for these addicts to quit though if the taxpayers didn't pick up the tab for them, eh? If making it available legally reduces crime (duh), why not let it be sold on the open market instead of having some kind of retarded government monopoly on giving out "free" drugs?

Way I see it, this doesn't actually reduce "crime" at all. It just replaced illegal drug-dealer violence with legal state-sponsored violence. Rather than the dealer threatening or using violence to get an addict to pay up, the state threatens or uses violence to get the taxpayer to pay up instead which is actually much worse, since the taxpayer usually isn't the one taking the heroin.

But it does illustrate some obvious benefits of legalizing drugs, such as reduced street violence and addicts being more open about their problems.

[coyote_sprit]

$22,000 or $65,000? How about neither let them kill themselves on their own dime.

[dannno]

Heh, maybe there would be more of an incentive for these addicts to quit though if the taxpayers didn't pick up the tab for them, eh? If making it available legally reduces crime (duh), why not let it be sold on the open market instead of having some kind of retarded government monopoly on giving out "free" drugs?

Way I see it, this doesn't actually reduce "crime" at all. It just replaced illegal drug-dealer violence with legal state-sponsored violence. Rather than the dealer threatening or using violence to get an addict to pay up, the state threatens or uses violence to get the taxpayer to pay up instead which is actually much worse, since the taxpayer usually isn't the one taking the heroin.

But it does illustrate some obvious benefits of legalizing drugs, such as reduced street violence and addicts being more open about their problems.

As Ron Paul has said before, drugs are "worthless". He's right. They are really worthless. If heroin was completely legal, you could buy it on the street with pocket change. It comes from a friggin flower, it would be like buying paprika or something. People wouldn't really buy heroin over time, though, if it were legal people would smoke opium. It is a much safer alternative, although still somewhat addictive, not nearly as bad as heroin. So since heroin is made from opium, you're taking something that is relatively harmless and making it into something that is extremely harmful, but due to government intervention it actually gains a lot of value do to the potency.

Since the government has made heroin illegal, they have artificially driven the price up so that drug users cannot afford their drugs. You are right, they should legalize it so that they can afford it themselves. While they are at it, get rid of the minimum wage laws so that less productive people can legally get a job where they make their employer more money so that there is an incentive to hire them.

Not sure if you watched the youtube by your comments, because clearly the government is saving the tax payers a lot of money buy buying the drug addict's drugs for them. It is still inefficient, and the best solution is to legalize, but the government program to give addicts heroin is still better for the tax payers than not, and you also must have missed the part where they said that the addiction rates are going down...

[torchbearer]

$22,000 or $65,000? How about neither let them kill themselves on their own dime.

that would be fair.

[akihabro]

Straight from Afghanistan.

Haven't we learned from our own recent history that making alcohol illegal actually increased crime a significant amount? Just don't tell these pundits who think we are winning the wars on drugs.

[FindLiberty]

+100 We have a winner!


As Ron Paul has said before, drugs are "worthless". He's right. They are really worthless. If heroin was completely legal, you could buy it on the street with pocket change. It comes from a friggin flower, it would be like buying paprika or something. People wouldn't really buy heroin over time, though, if it were legal people would smoke opium. It is a much safer alternative, although still somewhat addictive, not nearly as bad as heroin. So since heroin is made from opium, you're taking something that is relatively harmless and making it into something that is extremely harmful, but due to government intervention it actually gains a lot of value do to the potency.

Since the government has made heroin illegal, they have artificially driven the price up so that drug users cannot afford their drugs. You are right, they should legalize it so that they can afford it themselves. While they are at it, get rid of the minimum wage laws so that less productive people can legally get a job where they make their employer more money so that there is an incentive to hire them.

Not sure if you watched the youtube by your comments, because clearly the government is saving the tax payers a lot of money buy buying the drug addict's drugs for them. It is still inefficient, and the best solution is to legalize, but the government program to give addicts heroin is still better for the tax payers than not, and you also must have missed the part where they said that the addiction rates are going down...

[Expatriate]

Not sure if you watched the youtube by your comments, because clearly the government is saving the tax payers a lot of money buy buying the drug addict's drugs for them. It is still inefficient, and the best solution is to legalize, but the government program to give addicts heroin is still better for the tax payers than not, and you also must have missed the part where they said that the addiction rates are going down...

What I mean is that although this demonstrates some of the obvious benefits of ending the War on Drugs and will provide good arguments against it, the reduced drug-related street violence is simply replaced in this approach by government coercion against the taxpayer, in order to pay for the supposedly expensive drugs which the government made expensive in the first place. Sure, this policy can be considered better than simply throwing the guy in jail on the public dime, but it's still utterly wrong. Plus, who says that the addict would have gotten caught and ended up in jail? I bet a lot more people are using this service than the ones who would otherwise be in jail.

Also, how can it cost $22,000 a year per person for the British Government to supply heroin? As you said, it comes from a plant and isn't worth that much, especially when it's being produced legally with no risks by the gov't. The whole thing looks like the gov't over there has simply figured out how to profit more off of illegal drugs than they already were before. ~95% of that money is going to line someone's pockets I'll bet.

[jkr]

METH-a-doneeeeeee

boo

[YumYum]

There is one drug that serves no purpose and should not be available, and that is methamphetamines. People fucked up on heroin are not agressive and chill. But people on meth are insane and violent. They can't be in society around other people while on that shit. In the Free Market Utopia you would still have crime from these addicts, even if you give them free meth. They love stealing for the fun of it. The Free Market Vigilanties would be busy stringing these bastards up. In Free Market Utopia do meth heads become better citizens?

[coyote_sprit]

Meth didn't become a popular drug(It used to be a niche biker drug) until everything else was made illegal and meth became easy to make thanks too it being banned.

[YumYum]

Meth didn't become a popular drug(It used to be a niche biker drug) until everything else was made illegal and meth became easy to make thanks too it being banned.

Point is, the cat has been let out of the bag and people love meth, so it is not going to disappear. Right now meth is as expensive as cocaine and the percentage of people hooked on it is increasing. I know what I am talking about, I've been around that shit most of my life. I don't think Rothbard knew about meth when he wrote his book, but I, and millions of other people, are not going to live in a Free Market Utopia around fucking meth heads who get their shit for 50cents a slam at a convinence store. The anarchos are going to have their hands full trying to figure this one out.

[coyote_sprit]

Meth can be made in a plastic bottle very cheaply. Continued government control will only create more meth heads.

[Bruno]

$22,000 or $65,000? How about neither let them kill themselves on their own dime.

they won't kill themselves on their own dime. They will steal to get the dimes. That is why the alternative is being offered.

[YumYum]

Meth can be made in a plastic bottle very cheaply. Continued government control will only create more meth heads.

The cheaper it is the more that is available. How does legalizing meth make people want to quit?

[Bruno]

The cheaper it is the more that is available. How does legalizing meth make people want to quit?

A better question is why has criminalizing it failed to cause less people to start?

[sevin]

way i see it, this doesn't actually reduce "crime" at all. It just replaced illegal drug-dealer violence with legal state-sponsored violence. Rather than the dealer threatening or using violence to get an addict to pay up, the state threatens or uses violence to get the taxpayer to pay up instead which is actually much worse, since the taxpayer usually isn't the one taking the heroin.

qfft.

[coyote_sprit]

The cheaper it is the more that is available. How does legalizing meth make people want to quit?

Much more people have become addicted since government created a black market for it. Of course the problem won't simply go away in a free market system but a statist system sure as hell won't do any better.

[Bruno]

This is a good read on the subject http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/aint/303a.htm

[Rekonn]

The cheaper it is the more that is available. How does legalizing meth make people want to quit?

I've been watching it a show called Intervention for a while and think it's very powerful. They follow an addict for some time documenting how they have ruined their lives and hurt those around them. They show them before they got hooked (often very successful people), how they started, how their habit progressed, and it ends with their family and/or friends having an intervention to get the addict to agree to treatment.

I saw one episode where this young woman was completely addicted to canned air, the stuff you'd normally use to blow dust out of computers. Her life was devoted to whoring herself out for money and driving to multiple stores all over the place in order to buy enough cans to huff about 10 a day.

So, here's this item, a can of air that is so dangerous it can make a sad, complete mess out of a person. And yet, I have a can or two in my closet right now and almost never think of it. What's stopping me from getting a quick and powerful high? The show has alcoholics all the time, what stops me from letting alcohol take over my life? What's stopping me from using crack, heroin or meth? Those being illegal don't make much difference, I'm sure I could get some if I wanted to. The answer is personal responsibility. The war on drugs is just a colossal waste of money that fuels organized crime.

[Reason]

i've been watching it a show called intervention for a while and think it's very powerful. They follow an addict for some time documenting how they have ruined their lives and hurt those around them. They show them before they got hooked (often very successful people), how they started, how their habit progressed, and it ends with their family and/or friends having an intervention to get the addict to agree to treatment.

I saw one episode where this young woman was completely addicted to canned air, the stuff you'd normally use to blow dust out of computers. Her life was devoted to whoring herself out for money and driving to multiple stores all over the place in order to buy enough cans to huff about 10 a day.

So, here's this item, a can of air that is so dangerous it can make a sad, complete mess out of a person. And yet, i have a can or two in my closet right now and almost never think of it. What's stopping me from getting a quick and powerful high? The show has alcoholics all the time, what stops me from letting alcohol take over my life? What's stopping me from using crack, heroin or meth? Those being illegal don't make much difference, i'm sure i could get some if i wanted to. The answer is personal responsibility. The war on drugs is just a colossal waste of money that fuels organized crime.

+10 :)

[constituent]

There is one drug that serves no purpose and should not be available, and that is methamphetamines.

It's methamphetamin(e).

But continue, please...



People fucked up on heroin are not agressive and chill. But people on meth are insane and violent.

This isn't so clear cut. There are violent, insane people on both "drugs." Of course, there are violent, insane people on no "drugs" at all...



They can't be in society around other people while on that shit.

Well, most can assuming they slept the night before and have maintained their diet. Who can function without sleep and food for days on end? Nobody, not even the cockiest tweeker in town.

The primary difference here is knowing and understanding that. If you don't sleep for a few days and fail to eat as much as a french fry, you'd know better than to show up at work, but not an individual who was crazy to begin with and has been smoking a bag of who knows what (probably 5-10% racemic mixture of methamphetamin(e), 90% by-products, side reactions, and dietary supplements). He or she probably thinks everything is still a-ok!




In the Free Market Utopia you would still have crime from these addicts, even if you give them free meth.

You hit on an important point here, and that is that many of these people--whose actions you've written off on "drug" use--are shitty people to begin with. This isn't the "drug" alone, but a combination of many things including present economic circumstances, the way they were raised and their ability to find and maintain gainful employment. Often times, the people you speak about have displayed certain anti-social behaviors and/or a "thrill-seeking" personality throughout their entire lives, even pre-use.

In other words, it's not JUST the "drug," but it is PRIMARILY the people themselves.

The "drugs" just make it easier to embrace a certain reckless abandon, despite the obvious signs that it's causing more harm than good. (An issue for counseling, imo.)



They love stealing for the fun of it.

Exactly.



The Free Market Vigilanties would be busy stringing these bastards up.

The "Free Market Vigilanties" would probably be on it too, as it would increase their stamina and concentration, allow them to work longer hours and boost their overall work ethic.



In Free Market Utopia do meth heads become better citizens?

There is no nebulous group out there known as "meth heads." As with any "drug," there are folks from all walks of life who have chosen use as a means of improving their perception of reality. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's a good thing, and sometimes it is bad.

This, however, is an issue of the individual on the "drug," not the "drug" itself.

[YumYum]

It's methamphetamin(e).

But continue, please...



This isn't so clear cut. There are violent, insane people on both "drugs." Of course, there are violent, insane people on no "drugs" at all...



Well, most can assuming they slept the night before and have maintained their diet. Who can function without sleep and food for days on end? Nobody, not even the cockiest tweeker in town.

The primary difference here is knowing and understanding that. If you don't sleep for a few days and fail to eat as much as a french fry, you'd know better than to show up at work, but not an individual who was crazy to begin with and has been smoking a bag of who knows what (probably 5-10% racemic mixture of methamphetamin(e), 90% by-products, side reactions, and dietary supplements). He or she probably thinks everything is still a-ok!




You hit on an important point here, and that is that many of these people--whose actions you've written off on "drug" use--are shitty people to begin with. This isn't the "drug" alone, but a combination of many things including present economic circumstances, the way they were raised and their ability to find and maintain gainful employment. Often times, the people you speak about have displayed certain anti-social behaviors and/or a "thrill-seeking" personality throughout their entire lives, even pre-use.

In other words, it's not JUST the "drug," but it is PRIMARILY the people themselves.

The "drugs" just make it easier to embrace a certain reckless abandon, despite the obvious signs that it's causing more harm than good. (An issue for counseling, imo.)



Exactly.



The "Free Market Vigilanties" would probably be on it too, as it would increase their stamina and concentration, allow them to work longer hours and boost their overall work ethic.



There is no nebulous group out there known as "meth heads." As with any "drug," there are folks from all walks of life who have chosen use as a means of improving their perception of reality. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's a good thing, and sometimes it is bad.

This, however, is an issue of the individual on the "drug," not the "drug" itself.

Taken right out of Timothy Leary's book "1001 Excuses To Fry Your Brain". There are millions of innocent people who have become hooked on drugs who were not "shitty" people. Some people are more pre-disposed to addiction than others. When you take a subtance which creates and replaces your natural endorphines, in time you don't create endorphines and you become dependent on the drug. But, be my guest, you should take all the fucking drugs you want and give them to your kids while your at it.

[constituent]

There are millions of innocent people who have become hooked on drugs who were not "shitty" people.

Wow, you misinterpret what I say, and then spin it.

Why do I waste my time?



Some people are more pre-disposed to addiction than others.

Now you're going to start playing the compassion card?

You're the guy who supports locking people in cages for making a choice that millions of adults make every single day.

That ain't compassion.



But, be my guest, you should take all the fucking drugs you want and give them to your kids while your at it.


Do what?

Now you're just getting sassy.

Run along Shirley, the jig is up!