Sanctuary cities - for or against?

[Rekonn]

I'm fairly new to the libertarian point of view, where does it stand on the issue of sanctuary cities?

[Vessol]

Define?

[silverhandorder]

Purely libertarian view would not have to worry about illegal immigration. Other then that it varies between libertarians.

If you think that even though the system is broken it should not be abused then you would oppose sanctuary cities.

Some people think that freedom to move stands above all else.

Some people point this out as the shortcomings of the system just like they do with crime. Does not mean they are for it they just acknowledge that fact.

Lastly some get perverse pleasure for the failings of the system.

[Kludge]

The "libertarian PoV" is going to change pretty dramatically depending on which libertarian you speak with. Personally, while I sympathize with illegals as far as I don't approve of the restrictiveness in gaining citizenship, failure to respect one law is a well-enough indication that they will not respect other laws, enough so that I wouldn't feel terrible were they deported, but I also respect local communities' wishes which feel otherwise, though I have some uneasiness about the set precedents with local gov't ignoring federal law. So..... A lot of mixed feelings.

"Pure" libertarian philosophy would call for anarchy (or, at least, "voluntaryism"), but this is not an anarchist board, nor is Ron Paul an anarchist.

[Rekonn]

Thanks for the input, I guess there is a range on this topic. I recently read Kokesh's immigration section on his issues page and think it's very reasonable approach. I like the guest worker program, but without the amnesty/automatic path to citizenship.

[jbrace]

Thanks for the input, I guess there is a range on this topic. I recently read Kokesh's immigration section on his issues page and think it's very reasonable approach. I like the guest worker program, but without the amnesty/automatic path to citizenship.

Very good point, the birthright citizenship law is a incentive for them to come here illegally. I believe you should follow the laws that at country has set regarding immigration, and understand your decision to come here is going to have consequences, but then again, if we followed a true free market society and didn't have such a big central government this wouldn't be a problem. Also, what made you interested in libertarian views?

[Rekonn]

Very good point, the birthright citizenship law is a incentive for them to come here illegally. I believe you should follow the laws that at country has set regarding immigration, and understand your decision to come here is going to have consequences, but then again, if we followed a true free market society and didn't have such a big central government this wouldn't be a problem. Also, what made you interested in libertarian views?

Yup, take away min wage laws, and you remove a lot of incentive for an employer to hire someone under the table.

I started off conservative but lately have been increasingly disgusted with RINOs. I want people in congress that don't just pay the free market lip service, but actually vote against bailouts, stimulus, subsidies, pork, etc when it matters. I don't want a candidate that compromises his values by perpetually "reaching across the aisle". I want more libertarians to take over the Republican party to give it a backbone.

[LibertyEagle]

I live in a sanctuary city. I think the policy stinks.

We have immigration laws; if we don't like them, we should get them changed.

[LibertyEagle]

I started off conservative but lately have been increasingly disgusted with RINOs. I want people in congress that don't just pay the free market lip service, but actually vote against bailouts, stimulus, subsidies, pork, etc when it matters. I don't want a candidate that compromises his values by perpetually "reaching across the aisle". I want more libertarians to take over the Republican party to give it a backbone.

Cool. Welcome. I'm a traditional conservative and have read Ron Paul's stuff for many years. There is a lot of libertarianism in traditional conservatism, you know. Nothing like the RINOS you see running around today.

You know what happened to the Republican party, right?

[RM918]

I'm all for opening up immigration vastly, after the welfare state is dismantled, due to how absurd it is to get in here I can sort of see why people hop a border instead of waiting in line for a visa that renews once a year and fills the quota after 7 hours. However, the amnesty thing bugs me. I'm with the other guys where I'm sort of wary about giving people a free pass when they've shown they're willing to break the law to get in. I also think anchor babies have to go.

[constituent]

I'm sorry, where in the constitution is congress granted power over the immigration and emigration to/from the various states? I'm looking right now, but can't seem to find it.

[awake]

Who makes one human being vs another "illegal"? In the division of labor that encompasses this whole earth, if free from government, everyman is free to move about as he pleases, to exchange his goods for others; to use this means to acquire property and to make of that property what he wishes. The term Illegal is simply an artificial control devised by government to protect domestic labor and grant protectionism. To privilege one group of people with government protection from the other group who will work cheaper and sometimes better.

The argument: that 'you just cant let people come in and steal our jobs', is simply a restatement that these restrictions are labor protectionism.



Citizenship is an agreement to abide by the laws that govern a territory. Those laws are to guard a mans right to life, liberty, and property.

[Rekonn]

Who makes one human being vs another "illegal"? In the division of labor that encompasses this whole earth, if free from government, everyman is free to move about as he pleases, to exchange his goods for others; to use this means to acquire property and to make of that property what he wishes. The term Illegal is simply an artificial control devised by government to protect domestic labor and grant protectionism. To privilege one group of people with government protection from the other group who will work cheaper and sometimes better.

The argument: that 'you just cant let people come in and steal our jobs', is simply a restatement that these restrictions are labor protectionism.

Citizenship is an agreement to abide by the laws that govern a territory. Those laws are to guard a mans right to life, liberty, and property.

I agree that restrictions in place now are a form of protectionism. With the current system, we are in effect choosing to limit the best and brightest from coming here in exchange for the poor who are desperate enough in their current plight to break the law. We are sacrificing wealth that comes from greater production, and increased standard of living, to benefit a shortsighted group of people that is afraid of competition.

But, I do not think the term illegal should be thrown out. As bad as our laws are, they should be respected until voters and politicians wise up and change them. Even though I understand and sympathize with those that come here just to make a better life for themselves, that doesn't change the fact that they are breaking our laws to do so.

I view citizenship as not only an agreement, but a long term agreement that comes with the right to vote. I do not think the right to vote should be granted to those who are only here short term, and will not have to live with the consequences of their choices.

[lynnf]

I'm sorry, where in the constitution is congress granted power over the immigration and emigration to/from the various states? I'm looking right now, but can't seem to find it.




Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.


illegal "immigration" is just a euphemism for invasion

lynn

[lynnf]

Define?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city

A sanctuary city is a term given to a city in the United States that follows certain practices that protect illegal immigrants. These practices can be by law (de jure) or they can be by habit (de facto). The term generally applies to cities that do not allow municipal funds or resources to be used to enforce federal immigration laws, usually by not allowing police or municipal employees to inquire about one's immigration status. The designation has no legal meaning.[1]


lynn

[Colony14]

I grew up in Los Angeles County and therefore that's my explanation as to WHY I'm against open borders and Sanctuary Cities.

[Carson]

Sanctuary cities, and the criminals behind it, are clearly aiding and abetting illegal aliens. Many of them have even sworn oaths of office to uphold the law, and The United States Constitution.

We may have to kiss the keisters of the illegal invaders, it is still a felony to aid and abet them.

If some honest men and women in law enforcement, would go after the lowlifes in the government, business and the general population that have been aiding and abetting them, by the time they had enough of a handle on the job to raise their heads and look around, I don’t think many illegal aliens would still be left.

We don't need any new laws to do this either. Just some honest men and women that take their oaths of office seriously!

Finding them is the first step!



Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."
Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

[Colony14]

Carson, what I saw growing up in Los Angeles County was Latinos/Hispanics that were Pro-Illegal Immigration and that's why they allow them to do as they please.
Most of the time, a Caucasian person in LA County is Ignored and made a mockery of when the Cops show up.
I know, I lived it as did my realitives some of which are desceased from being vicitms of illegal crime.
I still do not have a clue as to HOW I made it out of there alive
I could EASILY see a Mexican/Latino/Hispanic TAKEOVER of the Los Angeles County Government, easily.