Watching Hardball with Chris Mathews on MSNBC

[Fr3shjive]

and they've got some neo-cons posing as tea partiers. They asked one of the guys who they would like to see replace Lindsey Graham in the Senate and this guy says Sarah Palin!! Seriously WTF?

The only thing they did agree on was that Republicans need to be fiscally responsible but they both supported the war in Iraq and pretty much sounded like neo-cons to me.

Have neo-cons who have joined the tea party movement still neo-cons at heart?

[Chieftain1776]

and they've got some neo-cons posing as tea partiers. They asked one of the guys who they would like to see replace Lindsey Graham in the Senate and this guy says Sarah Palin!! Seriously WTF?

The only thing they did agree on was that Republicans need to be fiscally responsible but they both supported the war in Iraq and pretty much sounded like neo-cons to me.

Have neo-cons who have joined the tea party movement still neo-cons at heart?

There's some confusion. Technically a neocon doesn't really care about small government. Most who call themselves conservatives aren't neocon on domestic policy but flirted with the neocon foriegn policy and may still agree with them on foriegn policy. Mark Levin is a good example of this type of "conservative".

Unfortunately in practice when you have a neoconservative foreign policy you tend to have a neocon domestic policy because the war drowns out any other concerns. This is what happened with Bush: "Yeah he's bad domestically but we can't let that APPEASER Kerry win!"

Domestically Neocons want a welfare state and want to use it for "patriotic" goals such as "faith-based initiatives", federalization of schools, tax breaks for certain lifestyles, and some have even called for censorship to root out rhetoric and images that "damage" society. Luckily for them, as "elites" they get to choose what is "best for society". How convenient :rolleyes:

[Ethek]

I agree with this. Any movement , especially a movement that is looking or will put up a 'figure head' is ripe for being co-opted. The tea-Party, 9/12 movement has a lot of people... they are people with issues and they are mad. Lots of potential, and a lot of wasted wheel spinning on those same stupid left/right. They are not issues of limited Government. These people voted for Hackable and for Palin, They are not the enemy. They are looking to push their issues.

We as constitutionalists need to become the leaders of that movement. They are not going to come to us. We need to co-opt what 9-12 has become, put in a framework of limited government and build that movement as an open framework. Show them that the Constitution will preserver the issues important to them. Religion in local schools, National Defense... not pacifism or interventionism. Li misted Government... oh and limited constitutional government.. which if the Huckabee and Palin faithful gain power will prevent them as the 51% majority from telling the 49% minority how to live. It will not matter after all since we hopefully will have reclaimed a working and probably at that point amended limited constitutional government.

Edward Griffen nails it in this video.
An Idea Whose Time Has Come - G. Edward Griffin - Freedom Force International (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958#)
My point at Minute 57:00 - 63:00 (starting at 63:00 also very excellent). The points in those 6 minutes are some of the most critical concepts for The Ron Paul movement to grasp. We must assume power within the frameworks available.. step up to it. Then we must co-opt movements with ours. Setup a framework, parallel to our current constitution for us, as freedom loving people to bring along and inform the mad people in collectives like 9-12, bring them into the fold and then shine the light about the intent of the constitution. The frameworks have to be open. They must be protected from being co-opted, without figureheads, but set on a course with a mission statement and purpose.. to restore and fix and existing workable constitution with tweaks.

The longer term 'tweaks' fixing our current constitution with concepts like Thirty-thousand.org and No Sheriff Left behind.

Minutes 19-25 are good too. I'm going to point for the fense on what I wrote as the way to do things. Everyone with Liberty oriented issues will 'Join or Die' Issues not included.