article: Old Testament scholar says it was mistranslated, God is not the Creator

[emazur]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html


She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to create" but to "spatially separate".

The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth"

According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of nothing.

Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.

She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but not the Earth itself."

She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient texts.

According to them there used to be an enormous body of water in which monsters were living, covered in darkness, she said.

She said technically "bara" does mean "create" but added: "Something was wrong with the verb.

"God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects. Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"

She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and the swarming at the ground.

"There was already water," she said.

"There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."


She said: "Maybe I am even hurting myself. I consider myself to be religious and the Creator used to be very special, as a notion of trust. I want to keep that trust."

[YumYum]

Great article! Science, research and new discoveries such as this will turn out to be the "anti-Christ", and deal the death blow to organized Christianity. It will go by the wayside with all the other ancient religions. Why Christians hold on to such myths as the Global Flood account, the Garden of Eden, the Young Earth Creation Theory and all the other stories that go against Scientific evidence, is perplexing and sad.

[Flash]

Great article! Science, research and new discoveries such as this will turn out to be the "anti-Christ", and deal the death blow to organized Christianity. It will go by the wayside with all the other ancient religions. Why Christians hold on to such myths as the Global Flood account, the Garden of Eden, the Young Earth Creation Theory and all the other stories that go against Scientific evidence, is perplexing and sad.

What ancient religions have gone the wayside? They were outcompeted due to politics mostly. This article proves you can believe in science & christianity at the same time. Very few ancient religious scriptures were meant to be taken literally, usually the gods evolved alongside of cultures & people.

[torchbearer]

well, before chrisitans get their panties in a wad. the book didn't say anything about him not creating the universe.
but then again, who was around the record this stuff anyway.
a serious seeker of facts should take these books as stories. written down from oral traditions.
lots of creation stories in many cultures... lots of destruction and flood stories from many cultures. there may be truths in them, but they themselves are not youtube videos of the actual event.

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

Thousands of scholars have been studying the Old Testament for thousands of years. Thank God Ellen van Wolde finally came along and set them all straight. I hope she gets the proper accolades for this.:rolleyes:

[torchbearer]

Thousands of scholars have been studying the Old Testament for thousands of years. Thank God Ellen van Wolde finally came along and set them all straight. I hope she gets the proper accolades for this.:rolleyes:

do you know translation errors have been happening for years...
ever heard of the horns of moses?

[Aratus]

after the "big bang" most current physicists postulate that energy seperates out from and creates matter as the super-hot universe cools. the nano-seconds, seconds, minutes, hours, days, years implied. the cosmic clock. to "seperate out" places the start of the book of GENESIS hypothetically hours or years after the "big bang" and the first divine spark. the sorting out and seperating out hint at erasmus darwin's theories of gradual transformation!

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

do you know translation errors have been happening for years...
ever heard of the horns of moses?

Oops, sorry, I meant to say, "Thousands of scholars have been studying the Old Testament in the original Hebrew for thousands of years." It is always the obscure translations or "newly discovered" texts that tend to get people into trouble, not to mention translating without the larger context.

Translating errors tend to happen, which is why a Bible scholar that knows Hebrew should not be a rarity. It is not really that hard to find a denomination that trains its ministers in the original languages of the Bible. Perhaps this "discovery" will spark debate and "the spirits" will be "tested".

[torchbearer]

Oops, sorry, I meant to say, "Thousands of scholars have been studying the Old Testament in the original Hebrew for thousands of years." It is always the obscure translations or "newly discovered" texts that tend to get people into trouble, not to mention translating without the larger context.

Translating errors tend to happen, which is why a Bible scholar that knows Hebrew should not be a rarity. It is not really that hard to find a denomination that trains its ministers in the original languages of the Bible. Perhaps this "discovery" will spark debate and "the spirits" will be "tested".

true.
I like the research coming out of israel concerning "mana" from the heavens.
some scholars believe they are referring to mushrooms.

then other studies are showing how plants like mushrooms allowed for the mental evolution of man and the ideas of spirituality.

[Diogenese_]

Great article! Science, research and new discoveries such as this will turn out to be the "anti-Christ", and deal the death blow to organized Christianity. It will go by the wayside with all the other ancient religions. Why Christians hold on to such myths as the Global Flood account, the Garden of Eden, the Young Earth Creation Theory and all the other stories that go against Scientific evidence, is perplexing and sad.

Note - There are some that believe that returning to the values of "the Christ", the annointed of God would also be a death blow to organized Christianity.

[PatriotOne]

That's just cracking open Pandora's box when it comes to Genesis. You can bet this isn't news to the head of church. There will be many things like this newly revealed now as Christianity is about to change while they mold their new One World Religion to be somewhat palatable to the people of all nations....just like Rome did while expanding their empires before.

She's still misinterpreting the passage though. God did not "create" man in Genesis. The Gods made man in their own image. Emphasis on "Gods".

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

Then they told Adam and Eve to replenish (do again) the earth.

Just by changing a few words here and there in the bible (either intentionally or mistaken translations) they have created a religion based on a house of cards and the only thing holding it up is faith. Faith in the Church...not in the word of God because the bible is not the word of God. The Church has for so long upheld that the earth was ~6000 yrs old that they have lost any credibility in the face of empirical evidence otherwise. Guess they figured it was time to come clean and admit that the earth might just be a bit older than that (off just a few million or billion years) and blame it on a mistaken translation. They knew otherwise already.

[Dreamofunity]

true.
I like the research coming out of israel concerning "mana" from the heavens.
some scholars believe they are referring to mushrooms.

then other studies are showing how plants like mushrooms allowed for the mental evolution of man and the ideas of spirituality.

That last part reminds me of Terence McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory. I can't find any audio on it from him, but here's Joe Rogan summerizing it:

YouTube - JOE ROGAN - TERRENCE MCKENNA'S STONED APE THEORY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7YKiJcS_LQ)

http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/McKenna/Evolution/theory.html

[YumYum]

That's just cracking open Pandora's box when it comes to Genesis. You can bet this isn't news to the head of church. There will be many things like this newly revealed now as Christianity is about to change while they mold their new One World Religion to be somewhat palatable to the people of all nations....just like Rome did while expanding their empires before.

She's still misinterpreting the passage though. God did not "create" man in Genesis. The Gods made man in their own image. Emphasis on "Gods".

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

Good point. This shows that man already existed and can lead to all kinds of speculations. Maybe Cro-Magnon was bred with "the gods"(aliens)?:)

[PatriotOne]

Good point. This shows that man already existed and can lead to all kinds of speculations. Maybe Cro-Magnon was bred with "the gods"(aliens)?:)

Basically, in its simplest form, that's pretty much what all the ancient texts are saying. Even the bible when you read it without the added religious rhetoric and spin in the churches. Freaking extra-terrestrials bred with or manipulated the DNA of pre-adamic men.

The bible itself stated that there were other people on earth besides Adam and Eve and their sons Cain and Able. The Christian god(s) make Adam and Eve in their own image. Cain kills Able so god sends Able out of the garden of eden and marks him to protect him from other people. Errr...what other people? Sidebar:..why was God protecting the murderous Cain by marking him and threatening a punishment sevenfold on whoever harms Cain? Anywho....

12When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

13And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Science is racing at lightening speed now towards "discovery" of life on other planets/interdimensional beings, etc., when you follow the non-mainstream stuff and even the Vatican has made a pre-empery strike giving permission to Christians to believe in extra-terrestrials.

Extra-terrestrial life is possible, Vatican astronomer says

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=58428

We are on the cusp of the "Age of Enlightenment" (Age of Aquarius) when science and religion will merge and make some sort of sense. All major religions follow astrotheology and observe the signs in the skies for their marching orders (the plebs aren't allowed to know of Astrology (termed Astrotheolgy for religious purposes) because they want to maintain control of them but they use it all the time) and since we are heading into the Age of Aquarius, they are reluctantly obliging:

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day (Sun worshipping religions like Christianity), and the lesser light to rule the night (Moon worshipping religions - Islam) he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Of course there will still be lies and spin to the new emerging One World Religion by those wanting to maintain control of the sheeple but people will be a lot closer to the truth than they have been for the past 2000 yrs.

In the meantime it's going to be a VERY interesting period of time to witness the destruction of all the old religions (or will they just slowly be changed and only few will notice the difference?) and Sovereign Governments (or I should say the illusion of Sovereignty) and see what emerges.

[ClayTrainor]

That last part reminds me of Terence McKenna's Stoned Ape Theory. I can't find any audio on it from him, but here's Joe Rogan summerizing it:

YouTube - JOE ROGAN - TERRENCE MCKENNA'S STONED APE THEORY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7YKiJcS_LQ)

http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/McKenna/Evolution/theory.html

I made a thread on this, actually. If you're interested :) http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=199919&highlight=stoned+ape+theory

[ewizacft]

The bible itself stated that there were other people on earth besides Adam and Eve and their sons Cain and Able. The Christian god(s) make Adam and Eve in their own image. Cain kills Able so god sends Able out of the garden of eden and marks him to protect him from other people. Errr...what other people? Sidebar:..why was God protecting the murderous Cain by marking him and threatening a punishment sevenfold on whoever harms Cain? Anywho....

Err..what?

Cain and Able were never in the Garden of Eden.

[torchbearer]

Err..what?

Cain and Able were never in the Garden of Eden.

you with the details.
and I guess you'd say Cain wasn't the first vampire too. ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

true.
I like the research coming out of israel concerning "mana" from the heavens.
some scholars believe they are referring to mushrooms.

then other studies are showing how plants like mushrooms allowed for the mental evolution of man and the ideas of spirituality.

Interesting. My encyclopedia (Grolier) says that the manna was probably a sort of bread-like honeydew created by insects that live in the fertile crescent. :cool:

[torchbearer]

Interesting. My encyclopedia (Grolier) says that the manna was probably a sort of bread-like honeydew created by insects that live in the fertile crescent. :cool:

this info is new. do a google search for: israel scientist mushroom mana

then look at the news stories. this is recent stuff.