New store in Texas (near Dallas) won't accept FRN

[Jeremy]

YouTube - Store won't accept U.S. dollar - Ron Paul, Dallas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-icLKgJJrE)

[torchbearer]

It is a federal crime to refuse FRNs.

[Jeremy]

It is a federal crime to refuse FRNs.

well you can bring in FRN and put them in a vending machine thing to convert to silver

does that count?

[torchbearer]

well you can bring in FRN and put them in a vending machine thing to convert to silver

does that count?

If someone walks into a store, and hands you a FRN to settle a debt or purchase... and you refuse. You've committed a crime.
You can pay with silver. you can accept silver. but you cannot deny FRNs without becoming a criminal.

[fgd]

It is NOT A CRIME to refuse to accept FRN in order to accept payment for an item. It IS A CRIME to not accept FRN in payment of a legally obligated debt. Get it straight.

[torchbearer]

It is NOT A CRIME to refuse to accept FRN in order to accept payment for an item. It IS A CRIME to not accept FRN in payment of a legally obligated debt. Get it straight.

if you eat at my diner. you don't pay for your food upfront.
It is a legally binding debt that you pay at the end of your meal.
Get it straight.

[fgd]

Per wiki:

"In some jurisdictions legal tender can be refused as payment if no debt exists prior to the time of payment (where the obligation to pay may arise at the same time as the offer of payment)."

That is, if someone incurs a debt, then offers FRN to pay it, the creditor MUST accept FRN under penalty of law. If no debt is incurred, then you don't have to accept FRN.

For example, you come into my store and want to buy a magazine. I say, "2 fish please". I'm not legally obligated to accept FRN as no debt has been incurred, and you leave without your magazine if you don't have 2 fish to pay for it.

However, if I write a loan to you payable in fish (or offer you the short term credit of a meal in the case of a diner), and you offer the FRN value of the fish to discharge the debt, then I must legally accept. This is the very essence of legal tender law.

[mnewcomb]

if you eat at my diner. you don't pay for your food upfront.
It is a legally binding debt that you pay at the end of your meal.
Get it straight.

You pay after you eat at McDonalds? There is no law against requiring payment first.

[torchbearer]

You pay after you eat at McDonalds? There is no law against requiring payment first.

all purchases are contracts.
did you know that?

[Dr.3D]

all purchases are contracts.
did you know that?

If you are supposed to pay before the service, then there isn't a contract till the payment is made.

[Elwar]

Since I can't listen to videos at work...what's the guy saying?

[torchbearer]

every purchase is a contract.
Person A will give barter to Person B for widget C.

If one side of the contract isn't fulfilled, there is a debt owed.
that debt could be paid with silver, or it could be paid for with FRNs.
you can reject silver for a contractual debt, but you cannot reject the FRNs.

[Dr.3D]

every purchase is a contract.
Person A will give barter to Person B for widget C.

If one side of the contract isn't fulfilled, there is a debt owed.
that debt could be paid with silver, or it could be paid for with FRNs.
you can reject silver for a contractual debt, but you cannot reject the FRNs.

The only time FRNs must be accepted is if there is a debt. If the transaction never happened because there was no payment in advance, there was no debt.

[ARealConservative]

if you eat at my diner. you don't pay for your food upfront.
It is a legally binding debt that you pay at the end of your meal.
Get it straight.

it isn't legally binding until the courts say it is.

[wizardwatson]

I would think you could refuse service based upon the use of FRN's if you so chose, but you'd be making it very inconvenient to conduct business without a suitable alternative. You would simply be choosing barter over money. Perhaps you're going to the mountains and have no use for money.

I don't know for sure thought, this is an interesting question.

[torchbearer]

The only time FRNs must be accepted is if there is a debt. If the transaction never happened because there was no payment in advance, there was no debt.

right, if you never take the item from the store, there is no debt.

[torchbearer]

it isn't legally binding until the courts say it is.

wtf?
try to walk out of my place without paying for what you ate...
while you are figting theft charges, tell the judge you didn't make any binding contract to pay for the food.

[ARealConservative]

right, if you never take the item from the store, there is no debt.

"torchbearer owes me one million dollars"

I can claim you are indebted to me all I like, but until a court decrees it so, it isn't so.

[torchbearer]

"torchbearer owes me one million dollars"

I can claim you are indebted to me all I like, but until a court decrees it so, it isn't so.

that isn't a purchase.
try again.

[ARealConservative]

wtf?
try to walk out of my place without paying for what you ate...
while you are figting theft charges, tell the judge you didn't make any binding contract to pay for the food.

try to physically stop me and you will find yourself on the losing side of a court case.

[ARealConservative]

that isn't a purchase.
try again.

it doesn't have to be.

I can refuse service of the purchase you wish to make with FRN's.

[torchbearer]

try to physically stop me and you will find yourself on the losing side of a court case.

here is how you get to my place-
http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=the+cottage,+alexandria,+la&fb=1&gl=us&hq=the+cottage,&hnear=alexandria,+la&view=text&latlng=909115121349140344

please come by so i can show you personally what I do the thieves.

[torchbearer]

it doesn't have to be.

I can refuse service of the purchase you wish to make with FRN's.

When I bill someone- I can not refuse FRNs.

[ARealConservative]

here is how you get to my place-
http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=the+cottage,+alexandria,+la&fb=1&gl=us&hq=the+cottage,&hnear=alexandria,+la&view=text&latlng=909115121349140344

please come by so i can show you personally what I do the thieves.

ooh, internet tough guy.

I don't think we need that kind of juvenile behavior, and you should know better really.

If I come into your restaurant, order a cheeseburger, and get a burnt peace of coal on a bun, I would refuse to pay. If you try to physically stop me, you will lose in a big way (legally)

your only recourse is to file a civil dispute claiming I breached a contract, not to fight me over the dispute.....and until a court takes your side, I don't have to give you shit.

[torchbearer]

ooh, internet tough guy.

I don't think we need that kind of juvenile behavior, and you should know better really.

If I come into your restaurant, order a cheeseburger, and get a burnt peace of coal on a bun, I would refuse to pay. If you try to physically stop me, you will lose in a big way (legally)

your only recourse is to file a civil dispute claiming I breached a contract, not to fight me over the dispute.....and until a court takes your side, I don't have to give you shit.

If the food isn't edible. Thus, you don't eat it. Then you owe nothing.
If you eat it, you pay for it.
That is how the contract works.

What you are saying in the above post is if i don't give you my side of the contract, you owe me nothing.
But that isn't what we were talking about... so how about you stop with the bullshit.
Every purchase is a contract.

If you don't like the product, you don't have to buy it.
But if you consume it, you've signed the contract to pay for it.
If you eat my burger, every last crumb is gone. You will go to jail for not paying for it.

[wizardwatson]

I think the merchant could refuse service before the fact for any reason he chooses.

I don't see how the merchant not accepting FRN's comes into play unless the merchant is trying to tell the judicial system that no payment has been rendered.

[Dr.3D]

I think the merchant could refuse service before the fact for any reason he chooses.

I don't see how the merchant not accepting FRN's comes into play unless the merchant is trying to tell the judicial system that no payment has been rendered.

I believe you are absolutely correct.
The key word is debt.

[ARealConservative]

If the food isn't edible. Thus, you don't eat it. Then you owe nothing.
If you eat it, you pay for it.
That is how the contract works.

What you are saying in the above post is if i don't give you my side of the contract, you owe me nothing.
But that isn't what we were talking about... so how about you stop with the bullshit.
Every purchase is a contract.

If you don't like the product, you don't have to buy it.
But if you consume it, you've signed the contract to pay for it.
If you eat my burger, every last crumb is gone. You will go to jail for not paying for it.

what I'm saying is two people can have a difference of opinion as far as who breached the contract and only the courts have the authority to demand payment from the party that did not fulfill their end of said contract.

now back to the matter at hand. You have no authority to demand I accept your FRN, because we have not entered into a contract yet. No debt could possible exist. the only thing you could do is take me to court and demand I sell you something, but you would not win.

so how about you stop with your bullshit and idiotic internet threats. makes you look like a dufus

[ARealConservative]

I think the merchant could refuse service before the fact for any reason he chooses.

I don't see how the merchant not accepting FRN's comes into play unless the merchant is trying to tell the judicial system that no payment has been rendered.

exactly right

[torchbearer]

I think the merchant could refuse service before the fact for any reason he chooses.

I don't see how the merchant not accepting FRN's comes into play unless the merchant is trying to tell the judicial system that no payment has been rendered.

true, I can refuse to serve anyone.
But when I serve them food, they owe me a debt.
If they come to my cashier to pay that debt- my cashier cannot refuse FRNs.

When you pick up a battery at walmart, its not a debt until you intend to leave with it. You owe walmart for the battery.
If you give them FRNs, they have to take them.

[Dr.3D]

true, I can refuse to serve anyone.
But when I serve them food, they owe me a debt.
If they come to my cashier to pay that debt- my cashier cannot refuse FRNs.

When you pick up a battery at walmart, its not a debt until you intend to leave with it. You owe walmart for the battery.
If you give them FRNs, they have to take them.

You don't owe them anything till the transaction takes place. They can refuse to sell you the battery in exchange for FRNs. If they decided to only accept gold or silver for the battery, you have the option of leaving the battery on the counter and leaving the store.

[wizardwatson]

true, I can refuse to serve anyone.
But when I serve them food, they owe me a debt.
If they come to my cashier to pay that debt- my cashier cannot refuse FRNs.

When you pick up a battery at walmart, its not a debt until you intend to leave with it. You owe walmart for the battery.
If you give them FRNs, they have to take them.

I agree with your post #6, it's the minutia of when the contract forms that's crucial.

If service has effectively been rendered before it's been made clear that no FRN's can or will be accepted then there's no contract and no debt.

In the diner case, you'd pretty much need a big honking sign on the door.

[ewizacft]

If you eat my burger, every last crumb is gone. You will go to jail for not paying for it.

How are you going to prove that he ate the burger?

[torchbearer]

You don't owe them anything till the transaction takes place. They can refuse to sell you the battery in exchange for FRNs. If they decided to only accept gold or silver for the battery, you have the option of leaving the battery on the counter and leaving the store.

I guess it works different for diners.
though i'm not sure if someone like walmart could get away with refusing FRNs.

[Dr.3D]

QUESTION: I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

ANSWER: The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml
Added emphasis is mine.

[torchbearer]

How are you going to prove that he ate the burger?

witnesses. someone cooked it. someone served it. someone cleaned up the plate.
along with a full diner. there are many people who can testify to the theft.
Plus, if he is arrested quickly, you could get a warrant for the contents of the person's stomach.

[Zippyjuan]

If you are supposed to pay before the service, then there isn't a contract till the payment is made.
When to pay can be part of the contract. The price board in McDonalds spells out the terms of the contract. "Big Mac- $2.50" If you want a Big Mac, you agree to pay them $2.50. Your order is a defacto agreement to the terms of the contract to exchange the food for your $2.50. It is not a written contract which you sign, but it is a contract. They can be implied too. When you accept the hamburger, you accept the contract. Whether you paid beforehand or not does not void the agreement.

[Dr.3D]

I guess it works different for diners.
though i'm not sure if someone like walmart could get away with refusing FRNs.

In a diner, you have a debt to the restaurant after you have eaten the meal.
If you produce a $100 bill and they can't make change, the restaurant is legally able to keep the $100 bill and not give you the change.

[Dr.3D]

As legal tender can be refused until a person is in debt, vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote for a single bus fare or bar of chocolate, and even shopkeepers can reject large banknotes. However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept any legal tender, though they would not be obliged to provide change – the restaurant is not in debt, it has been given a gift.

The right of a trader to refuse to do business with any person means a purchaser cannot demand to make a purchase, and so declaring a legal tender other than for debts would be redundant.
http://www.fact-archive.com/encyclopedia/Legal_tender

[puppetmaster]

every purchase is a contract.
Person A will give barter to Person B for widget C.

If one side of the contract isn't fulfilled, there is a debt owed.
that debt could be paid with silver, or it could be paid for with FRNs.
you can reject silver for a contractual debt, but you cannot reject the FRNs.


A contract must have at least two parties and it must be agreed upon before it is enforceable...that is unless your the IRS:rolleyes::rolleyes:

This thread is arguing about the fact that we all agree......that debt must be created first and that is done with a contract., implied or not.

[Mahkato]

This thread amuses me.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

It is a federal crime to refuse FRNs.

Who cares? You of anyone should be ecstatic about this. This is what we need when we transition from fiat, or at least fight to transition from fiat. Also, if one of these States do seceede, we will need these people to bridge the gap.

As a Libertarian I would think you of anyone wouldn't give a shit about current tyrannous laws.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

true, I can refuse to serve anyone.
But when I serve them food, they owe me a debt.
If they come to my cashier to pay that debt- my cashier cannot refuse FRNs.

When you pick up a battery at walmart, its not a debt until you intend to leave with it. You owe walmart for the battery.
If you give them FRNs, they have to take them.

I see you got quiet after the treasury quote.

I think you would find court cases that deal with how gas stations, pizza delivery, and businesses can refuse large bills despite the fact they are legal tender... enlightening.

Upon a review of case law you might adopt a new position.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I could also include how federal reserve banks legally discount negotiable instruments (aka checks the represent a promise to pay $x.xx drafted upon a bank) they are obligated to convert with check cashing fees.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

the government can't regulate the trade of goods without money can it? for example, trading a toaster for a loaf of bead or something rofl.

[akihabro]

Good idea I hope that trading post stays open for a long time. Now if we could get paid in silver or gold.

[Socratic Method]

If someone walks into a store, and hands you a FRN to settle a debt or purchase... and you refuse. You've committed a crime.
You can pay with silver. you can accept silver. but you cannot deny FRNs without becoming a criminal.

Could you please define criminal?

Currently, in Texas it is "criminal" to: promote the use of, or owning more than six dildos.

http://www.dumblaws.com/law/938

Cheers,
SM.

[devil21]

How is this not a scam? I like the idea but the execution seems like a scam.

1. Put FRNs into a machine. Silver pops out. Machine keeps dollars. You keep silver.
2. Use silver to buy goods from store. Store keeps silver. You keep goods.

Didn't you just pay twice? Who owns the FRN-->Silver machine? Is it the shop? If so, that's a scam if the goods aren't worth twice the amount of Silver paid (or the total of FRNs and Silver).

If Im misunderstanding something please correct me.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

How is this not a scam? I like the idea but the execution seems like a scam.

1. Put FRNs into a machine. Silver pops out. Machine keeps dollars. You keep silver.
2. Use silver to buy goods from store. Store keeps silver. You keep goods.

Didn't you just pay twice? Who owns the FRN-->Silver machine? Is it the shop? If so, that's a scam if the goods aren't worth twice the amount of Silver paid (or the total of FRNs and Silver).

If Im misunderstanding something please correct me.

Depends if they are using spot price or not. Silver has an inherent value related to the dollar. This is why there is fluctuating market prices. In other words, competing currencies. As of right now, 1OZ of silver is equivalent to what...17.50$? So, you put in 17.50$ and out pops 1OZ coin/round, whatever. You then use that to buy whatever is in the store. You don't pay twice, you pay once. You merely exchange one piece of money for another to conduct commerce. It's no different than going to another country and exchanging your dollar's for euro's or yen, etc.

Frankly, I wish there was more competing currencies and legal tender laws abolished. Let people use FRN's if they want to. Let people use Silver or Gold or anything else they want.

It's a very simple system.

I wish I could get payed in either Silver or Gold ;( My purchasing power would be vastly increasing.

[TheEvilDetector]

How is this not a scam? I like the idea but the execution seems like a scam.

1. Put FRNs into a machine. Silver pops out. Machine keeps dollars. You keep silver.
2. Use silver to buy goods from store. Store keeps silver. You keep goods.

Didn't you just pay twice? Who owns the FRN-->Silver machine? Is it the shop? If so, that's a scam if the goods aren't worth twice the amount of Silver paid (or the total of FRNs and Silver).

If Im misunderstanding something please correct me.

You walked in with FRN, walked out with Goods. What's confusing you?

Remember, the shop had silver in the machine to start with.

Its only a bad system if the price paid for the metals is exorbitant.

[devil21]

You walked in with FRN, walked out with Goods. What's confusing you?

Remember, the shop had silver in the machine to start with.

Its only a bad system if the price paid for the metals is exorbitant.

Eh I dont know. I tried to hash it out in my mind and something just seems "off" since the shop ends up with both the silver and the FRNs. Guess it's just my suspicious nature. I'd rather just trade FRNs for silver and leave lol.

[james1906]

here is how you get to my place-
http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=the+cottage,+alexandria,+la&fb=1&gl=us&hq=the+cottage,&hnear=alexandria,+la&view=text&latlng=909115121349140344

please come by so i can show you personally what I do the thieves.

If someone feels your meager $5 cheeseburger was overpriced and refuses to pay, what do you do?

[torchbearer]

If someone feels your meager $5 cheeseburger was overpriced and refuses to pay, what do you do?

the price is by the item on the menu. it is an 8 ounce burger, not a 4 ounce burger from mcdonalds.
if you order and eat the burger, you pay the price listed.
if you don't pay the price, you have stolen the product.
if you feel you are defrauded, after you pay the bill- you sue me for fraud- it will be settled in court.
Leave without paying, and you will be a fugitive.

[tremendoustie]

If someone walks into a store, and hands you a FRN to settle a debt or purchase... and you refuse. You've committed a crime.
You can pay with silver. you can accept silver. but you cannot deny FRNs without becoming a criminal.

I don't think so. I just don't think courts will uphold the debt. So, if you're a contractor, you do your job, and then demand payment in silver, but the homeowner offers FRNs, the court will consider the debt paid.

You can't even write court enforceable contracts using gold or silver ahead of time.

I don't think there's a rule saying you have to accept FRNs at time of purchase, however.

[tremendoustie]

Eh I dont know. I tried to hash it out in my mind and something just seems "off" since the shop ends up with both the silver and the FRNs. Guess it's just my suspicious nature. I'd rather just trade FRNs for silver and leave lol.

You end up with whatever you're buying, and the shop started with the silver in the first place, so it all works out.

[Charlie41]

It is a federal crime to refuse FRNs.

I hate to tell you this. But that not correct. Here you can refuse anything, even who you provide service to.

Only a payment of debt can not be refused to be payed with FRN's. and there is no debt accumulated before the transaction. He is refusing the transaction. So it is legal here. I think I'll shop there, since he's only 10 miles from me. Besides, I want to see what kind of silver his machine is spitting out.

[Dr.3D]

When to pay can be part of the contract. The price board in McDonalds spells out the terms of the contract. "Big Mac- $2.50" If you want a Big Mac, you agree to pay them $2.50. Your order is a defacto agreement to the terms of the contract to exchange the food for your $2.50. It is not a written contract which you sign, but it is a contract. They can be implied too. When you accept the hamburger, you accept the contract. Whether you paid beforehand or not does not void the agreement.

Since when did they start giving out hamburgers at McDonalds before you paid for them? I fail to see your point.

[Dr.3D]

I hate to tell you this. But that not correct. Here you can refuse anything, even who you provide service to.

Only a payment of debt can not be refused to be payed with FRN's. and there is no debt accumulated before the transaction. He is refusing the transaction. So it is legal here. I think I'll shop there, since he's only 10 miles from me. Besides, I want to see what kind of silver his machine is spitting out.

His machine is spitting out $50 dollar rounds. You might be able to pay $35 for them, I'm not sure, but the rounds have FIFTY stamped on them.

For the life of me, I wish these idiots would just go by the weight of silver and stop trying to put a fixed price on their rounds.

Edit: Here are some pictures of the rounds.
http://www.opencurrency.com/currencies/

Here is the valuation formula:
http://www.opencurrency.com/valuation/

[Mandrik]

ooh, internet tough guy.

I don't think we need that kind of juvenile behavior, and you should know better really.

If I come into your restaurant, order a cheeseburger, and get a burnt peace of coal on a bun, I would refuse to pay. If you try to physically stop me, you will lose in a big way (legally)

your only recourse is to file a civil dispute claiming I breached a contract, not to fight me over the dispute.....and until a court takes your side, I don't have to give you shit.

Um...didn't you see torchbearer in the news recently?!

YouTube - Pizza owner fights off robber Greek Style (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yb7CVGwU0U)

:D

Sorry, tb, I couldn't resist. My family is Greek and owns a bajillion restaurants. This cracked us up!

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

His machine is spitting out $50 dollar rounds. You might be able to pay $35 for them, I'm not sure, but the rounds have FIFTY stamped on them.

For the life of me, I wish these idiots would just go by the weight of silver and stop trying to put a fixed price on their rounds.

Edit: Here are some pictures of the rounds.
http://www.opencurrency.com/currencies/

Here is the valuation formula:
http://www.opencurrency.com/valuation/

I agree. Putting a value on weight is what did the dollar in to begin with. The round should be stamped in ounces of intrinsic metal.

Branding the round is fine. The metal content of the round should be disclosed, the total weight of the round, and methods to detect forgery.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

the price is by the item on the menu.

And what if the price of the item on the menu is denominated in intrinsic metal weight not dollars?

[torchbearer]

And what if the price of the item on the menu is denominated in intrinsic metal weight not dollars?

since it would be a debt, if the person refused to pay in silver, but insisted that i take his FRNs, and I refused... I could be arrested.

If all you had were FRNs- you ate your meal, then went to pay-
Regardless of what I had listed on the menu, lets say that burger was 1/4 ounce of silver. i could take silver all day, but the first jackass that insisted on settling his debt in FRNs comes in... i'd have to take it or risk him pressing charges on me for not upholding the government granted monopoly of the federal reserve.

[loveshiscountry]

the price is by the item on the menu. it is an 8 ounce burger, not a 4 ounce burger from mcdonalds.
if you order and eat the burger, you pay the price listed.
if you don't pay the price, you have stolen the product.
if you feel you are defrauded, after you pay the bill- you sue me for fraud- it will be settled in court.
Leave without paying, and you will be a fugitive.

Do you have an online menu? I looked and didn't see a website

[Dr.3D]

Do you have an online menu? I looked and didn't see a website
He put the menu on the table when you sat down. Since you ordered from the menu, and the prices were on that menu, it means you agreed to pay the price shown on the menu for what you ordered.

[Dr.3D]

since it would be a debt, if the person refused to pay in silver, but insisted that i take his FRNs, and I refused... I could be arrested.

If all you had were FRNs- you ate your meal, then went to pay-
Regardless of what I had listed on the menu, lets say that burger was 1/4 ounce of silver. i could take silver all day, but the first jackass that insisted on settling his debt in FRNs comes in... i'd have to take it or risk him pressing charges on me for not upholding the government granted monopoly of the federal reserve.

But you would have him by the balls. You could tell him that 1/4 ounce of silver was worth $20 FRN and he would have to pay it.

[torchbearer]

Do you have an online menu? I looked and didn't see a website

no, we don't do internet.
we don't even advertise. didn't even have a sign until a couple years ago. diner been around for over 25 years.
If you are going to be in the area, do call to reserve a table. reservations aren't necesary, but it will insure you get a table. it can get busy.

the business is word of mouth, we have many well known locals eat at the cottage.
the mayor and the sheriff eat here. mike small, a locally famous attorney eats here everyday. turkey and swiss on wheat toast with fruit- no cherries. he drinks a tea with lemon. orders that 99% of the time.
I've also had Rodney alexander eat here. His office staff eats here on your dime often.
a lot of the business is regulars that have been coming here for years. so the business is stable. if you see negative comments on the internet, i bet it is competition putting up crap. we get zero complaints. I can't remember the last time anyone complained about a meal served at the cottage. in fact, if someone did complain... people wouldn't believe them.

If you don't like what you ordered, and you really haven't started eating it- we will get you something else.

I can give suggestions as to what are our most popular menu items.

[loveshiscountry]

He put the menu on the table when you sat down. Since you ordered from the menu, and the prices were on that menu, it means you agreed to pay the price shown on the menu for what you ordered.


lol I was just wondering about the food he serves. down with HFCS!!!

[Dr.3D]

lol I was just wondering about the food he serves.
Oh, my bad... I thought he was in the IT business.

[torchbearer]

Oh, my bad... I thought he was in the IT business.

Mom runs the cottage, I help her.
I also have my own Computer Repair/Networking Business... I also do financial planning for people. Currently can help with loan refinances, debt elimination, auto and home insurance.
working on getting life insurance license and securities.

Basically I fix people's problems.

[Icymudpuppy]

In my business, I accept all manner of payment. I do a lot of trades. Last month a guy paid me with a '66 mustang. This month, an older couple paid me in fishing and camping gear. Some traded items I keep for my own use. Other things I sell on craigslist. I accept Cash, Checks, Amex, Disc, Visa, MC, Traded goods (particularly Firearms and ammo), Gold, Silver, Pearls, Rubies, and many other items.

[orafi]

I guess it works different for diners.
though i'm not sure if someone like walmart could get away with refusing FRNs.

Diners are different because they are considered a service.

You must cook and prepare the meal, offer a clean or acceptable eating environment, provide utensils, seats and tables, etc. It's a mix of intangibility and tangibility. If I order a food from you, you need to cook it and make it just right, just as promised or as acceptable as possible.

If you prepare a meal with bacon, for example, and I did not order it for religious reasons (and let's say I took a bite out of it, uh oh), you're under obligation to fix the order, correct? Or that I will be able to refuse the service you have provided, even though you have completed the obvious end of your contract (preparing the meal) but not honored the specifics (keeping the bacon out, or as someone else mentioned, making sure there is no coal being confused for a patty)

I mean, this part of the oral contract goes without say right? Or of course, your restaurant's (legally certified) policy comes into play and as long as everything stays in line, the customer is obligated to pay (depending on the situation). But I guess that's already considered.

Anyways I'm not an expert on the service end of things, so I'm going to ask you a question: Would I still need to pay even though the error is on your part (whatever degree that errorr is)?


And the WalMart thing: You do whatever your boss tells you, or you'll get torn a new one

[torchbearer]

Anyways I'm not an expert on the service end of things, so I'm going to ask you a question: Would I still need to pay even though the error is on your part (whatever degree that errorr is)?

The signature on the contract for us is if you eat half your meal.

This avoids the he said/she said bullshit.
Customer "I told the server- no bacon"
Server "The customer told me no such thing"
Cooks "The ticket said no such thing"

The above scenario is useless.

There is a policy in most diners that servers are to do a 5 minute check back. (this usually happens sooner). At the 5 minute check-back the server ask if everything is ok with the meal. It is at this point the customer is given the option of rejecting the meal, and thus not have to pay for it (or getting something else).
Some places don't train or manage their servers very well. this opens them up to liability.

[tremendoustie]

His machine is spitting out $50 dollar rounds. You might be able to pay $35 for them, I'm not sure, but the rounds have FIFTY stamped on them.

For the life of me, I wish these idiots would just go by the weight of silver and stop trying to put a fixed price on their rounds.

Edit: Here are some pictures of the rounds.
[/URL]http://www.opencurrency.com/currencies/ (http://www.opencurrency.com/currencies/)

Here is the valuation formula:
[URL]http://www.opencurrency.com/valuation/ (http://www.opencurrency.com/valuation/)

Agreed, absolutely, regarding the fixed price vs weight thing.

I really think this solution with the vending machine is excellent. That way, you can accommodate FRN users, while still just needing one price on everything, in silver ozs.

[tremendoustie]

The signature on the contract for us is if you eat half your meal.

This avoids the he said/she said bullshit.
Customer "I told the server- no bacon"
Server "The customer told me no such thing"
Cooks "The ticket said no such thing"

The above scenario is useless.

There is a policy in most diners that servers are to do a 5 minute check back. (this usually happens sooner). At the 5 minute check-back the server ask if everything is ok with the meal. It is at this point the customer is given the option of rejecting the meal, and thus not have to pay for it (or getting something else).
Some places don't train or manage their servers very well. this opens them up to liability.

Ah, so that's why they do it! I always wondered why the first check back was so fast after service, and the second so much later.

[orafi]

The signature on the contract for us is if you eat half your meal.

This avoids the he said/she said bullshit.
Customer "I told the server- no bacon"
Server "The customer told me no such thing"
Cooks "The ticket said no such thing"

The above scenario is useless.

*There is a policy in most diners that servers are to do a 5 minute check back. (this usually happens sooner). At the 5 minute check-back the server ask if everything is ok with the meal. It is at this point the customer is given the option of rejecting the meal, and thus not have to pay for it (or getting something else).
Some places don't train or manage their servers very well. this opens them up to liability.

Okay so what if I eat more than half and in the latter half of my meal I find that lump of coal or any other foreign object or anything that shouldn't be there (that isn't specifically taken care of in the original order, like the bacon)?

*And also, I thought that was just good customer service but yeah that is a good practice to protect against ridiculous customers

[torchbearer]

Okay so what if I eat more than half and in the latter half of my meal I find that lump of coal or any other foreign object or anything that shouldn't be there (that isn't specifically taken care of in the original order, like the bacon)?

:rolleyes:
a lump of coal? ok, you don't have to pay. I didn't serve you a burger.
:rolleyes:

[tremendoustie]

:rolleyes:
a lump of coal? ok, you don't have to pay. I didn't serve you a burger.
:rolleyes:

I don't know, you haven't been to some of the burger joints I have :p.

[torchbearer]

If something is wrong with someone's order, they either tell the server and it is corrected at the beginning of the meal... or the person doesn't say anything- EVEN WHEN ASKED- and they pay for it- but stiff the server using their disgust of an incorrect order to justify making another human their slave for an hour.
These are the two things you see happen in the food service industry.

[orafi]

:rolleyes:
a lump of coal? ok, you don't have to pay. I didn't serve you a burger.
:rolleyes:

it's an example

[torchbearer]

I don't know, you haven't been to some of the burger joints I have :p.

we have a stuffed hamburger you gotta try.
the beef patty is stuffed with bacon and cheese.

[torchbearer]

it's an example

thats obvious.

[orafi]

thats obvious.

that's not the point. the point was, you attacked the example, not the question.

[orafi]

and you don't need to get frustrated or anything, i'm just asking for your insight.

[tremendoustie]

If something is wrong with someone's order, they either tell the server and it is corrected at the beginning of the meal... or the person doesn't say anything- EVEN WHEN ASKED- and they pay for it- but stiff the server using their disgust of an incorrect order to justify making another human their slave for an hour.
These are the two things you see happen in the food service industry.

I usually tend to go with the flow, and just eat wrong orders. But, I realized one time that that doesn't always really help things -- after a couple minutes someone else had gotten my order, and the waitress realized her mistake.

[tremendoustie]

we have a stuffed hamburger you gotta try.
the beef patty is stuffed with bacon and cheese.

mmm .. substitute mushrooms for bacon?

[torchbearer]

that's not the point. the point was, you attacked the example, not the question.

I answered you. if you didn't get a burger, you don't have to pay for a burger.

[torchbearer]

mmm .. substitute mushrooms for bacon?

what you would order would be a Stuffed Mushroom Burger.
stuff with bacon and cheese, but topped with grilled onion and mushroom.
the burgers are prepped early in the morning- so no mushrooms are stuffed in the patties. If you were a regular- we do make special request available for someone we know will be there to eat every day.

[orafi]

I answered you. if you didn't get a burger, you don't have to pay for a burger.

that's an answer to a different question. but i'll leave you be.

[mczerone]

I would think you could refuse service based upon the use of FRN's if you so chose, but you'd be making it very inconvenient to conduct business without a suitable alternative. You would simply be choosing barter over money. Perhaps you're going to the mountains and have no use for money.

I don't know for sure thought, this is an interesting question.

No! You would be choosing money over tokens. The medium of exchange has its own "inherent" value aside from its printed worth if it is a silver coin - money, FRNs are but tokens: paper with a printed worth that has little value without this stamp.

Barter is a situation without a medium of exchange - all exchanges in barter are direct.

[Krugerrand]

Okay so what if I eat more than half and in the latter half of my meal I find that lump of coal or any other foreign object or anything that shouldn't be there (that isn't specifically taken care of in the original order, like the bacon)?

Have you been naughty or nice?

[Oyate]

I totally got lost in this one. I thought the SCOTUS had determined that two parties can negociate for payment in whatever specie they agree on. If no agreement is made for payment, the transaction theoretically won't happen.

That's just my simplistic understanding.

[Danke]

I totally got lost in this one. I thought the SCOTUS had determined that two parties can negociate for payment in whatever specie they agree on. If no agreement is made for payment, the transaction theoretically won't happen.

That's just my simplistic understanding.

That's because there is a mixing of public and private in this thread.

[robertwerden]

This is the stupidest fight ive see, only read to page 3.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

since it would be a debt, if the person refused to pay in silver, but insisted that i take his FRNs, and I refused... I could be arrested.

If all you had were FRNs- you ate your meal, then went to pay-
Regardless of what I had listed on the menu, lets say that burger was 1/4 ounce of silver. i could take silver all day, but the first jackass that insisted on settling his debt in FRNs comes in... i'd have to take it or risk him pressing charges on me for not upholding the government granted monopoly of the federal reserve.

I guess you have never been to an arcade where the machines only accept tokens.

[Dr.3D]

When I bill someone- I can not refuse FRNs.

Actually, I believe you may refuse the FRNs and that would release the person who was trying to pay you with them from their debt. As I recall, if you refuse the FRNs, you default into releasing the person from their debt.

So it would be your choice to either take his FRNs or let him go without paying.

[torchbearer]

Actually, I believe you may refuse the FRNs and that would release the person who was trying to pay you with them from their debt. As I recall, if you refuse the FRNs, you default into releasing the person from their debt.

So it would be your choice to either take his FRNs or let him go without paying.

you won't stay in business very long doing that.
legal tender laws suck.