Would the military follow orders to attack Americans?

[apropos]

Over time, a lot of folks have said that the military would not turn on American citizens if so ordered by the president. I have personally doubted this claim, due mainly to the growing civic illiteracy in both private and public sectors. Attached is an article about army officers criticizing Obama's rebuke of McChyrstal. But the last quote of this article caught my attention and I thought it worth sharing.


Officers said there was no question that McChrystal and other commanders would carry out whatever decisions Obama makes. "We will tell you what we think, but we are also soldiers, so if the president gives an order, we will execute it," the senior officer said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/07/AR2009100704056.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR

After seeing that, do people feel that the military would not turn on American citizens if so ordered?

[Elwar]

Waco

Ruby Ridge

[A. Havnes]

I personally feel that the military would be divided. If ordered to attack American citizens, that would be like being ordered to kill their own families. I doubt many of them would do that. So, there would be probably be a struggle within the military.

[krazy kaju]

The majority of servicemen would not attack Americans.


Waco

Ruby Ridge

ATF

FBI

Not the military.

[Krugerrand]

The majority of servicemen would not attack Americans.



ATF

FBI

Not the military.

Don't forget the Fish and Wildlife Service.

see this thread if you haven't already:
Criminalizing everyone (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=213486)

[jkr]

KENT STATE

ftw!

[fisharmor]

The majority of servicemen would not attack Americans.



ATF

FBI

Not the military.


CSA.


It's that easy. The people they attack are guaranteed not to be "Americans".

[Elwar]

It's not as straight forward as one would think...like the military would one day just turn around and start attacking Americans...

It would be just like Waco, just like Ruby Ridge...the American people would be transformed into criminals and traitors...the enemy. It would be protecting the country from extremists. It would be fighting those who wish America harm. Starting small, rooting out a few bad apples...etc.

The soldiers believe that they are in Iraq, killing Iraqis believing that they are protecting the United States. It's an unspoken given that you don't question that premise to the soldier, otherwise you're spitting in his face. I was out in Iraq, I carried on the facade that we were out there protecting America. To do otherwise is to admit that you're part of something bad and evil, you're the aggressor...but if you say you're protecting America, it's noble...it's a service to your country, you're doing the honorable thing.

Whether they believe it themselves or not...when your commander gives you an order you don't have time to be thinking of the morality of what you're doing.

[TonySutton]

You will not see widespread use of the US military against Americans. Is there a possibility of an isolated incident, sure but anyone who thinks our military leaders will support a major action against US citizens, knows very little about our military.

[zach]

It would definitely be split, IMO. I doubt that all military personnel are mindless drones devoid of morality and reason.

[thetruthhurtsthefed]

Does anyone remember what happened at Kent State University??!!!! The military DID turn on the people and killed a few! What would make you think otherwise today?! If enough "servicemen and women" are groomed to believe their host citizens are a threat, I know they'll squeeze that trigger for their protection and from fear of court marshal

[SelfTaught]

Well, if American troops don't fire on Americans, then foreign mercenaries will. That is, if the collapse of the dollar doesn't cause our general citizenry to go out and destroy themselves.

[catdd]

The government must not like the odds of winning though, or else they wouldn't be trying to steal the NG from the states and ban militias and weapons.

[zach]

Yes, the foreign troops are what have been bugging me lately.

[TonySutton]

Foreign troops on US soil will die rather quickly.

[Pericles]

You will not see widespread use of the US military against Americans. Is there a possibility of an isolated incident, sure but anyone who thinks our military leaders will support a major action against US citizens, knows very little about our military.

Yeah, I always hear about that from people who got their knowledge about the US military from the NET, TV, and movies instead of actual experience.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/Sss4tDDWN1I/AAAAAAAACuE/3_UOE7CXtsU/s400/S4200090.jpg

Seen in the stan, which means the chain of command is OK with it.

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah, I always hear about that from people who got their knowledge about the US military from the NET, TV, and movies instead of actual experience.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/Sss4tDDWN1I/AAAAAAAACuE/3_UOE7CXtsU/s400/S4200090.jpg

Seen in the stan, which means the chain of command is OK with it.

That's encouraging.

Thanks.

[pcosmar]

The patches are kind of small.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/Sss4tDDWN1I/AAAAAAAACuE/3_UOE7CXtsU/s400/S4200090.jpg

How do we tell the Oathkeepers form the thugs when they are in the same uniform and on the same line?

http://trueslant.com/matthewnewton/files/2009/09/pittsburgh-G20-police-riot-gear.jpg

Not meaning to be an ass. It is an honest question.
I respect their stated purpose, but am seeing little real world evidence.

[Icymudpuppy]

The soldiers will split. The majority appx 75% will support their immediate chain of command. The minority appx 25% will desert. Of those who support their chain, you can only expect about 10% to end up revolting against the president. This means the military will split approximately 67.5% for the president, and 32.5% for the people.

As a soldier, I am sorry to say that most don't have any inkling to truly think for themselves. Training, and the bureaucracy don't encourage it. I will be in the minority if I'm still in when it happens.

3 months until I can resign and not be called back ever again!

[Dianne]

I agree it would be difficult, which is why the govt. is looking into outside sources like Blackwater to do the job.

[cheapseats]

Certainly I would be more assured if the Oath Keepers would add WILL NOT FIRE UPON AMERICANS ASSEMBLED IN DISSENT to their list of reassurances. It is CONSPICUOUSLY absent.

[2young2vote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

I watched a video about that experiment. It is about the way people obey other people who are in a higher authority. I think I heard that psychologists thought less than 1/10 of 1% would actually go all the way, but in reality, a majority went all the way. It is an experiment that asked the question "why would soldiers in Nazi Germany slaughter people" and the answer can be found in that experiment (supposedly).

[pcosmar]

Certainly I would be more assured if the Oath Keepers would add WILL NOT FIRE UPON AMERICANS ASSEMBLED IN DISSENT to their list of reassurances. It is CONSPICUOUSLY absent.

I would be encouraged to see arrests of corrupt officers by Oathkeepers.
Are there none in Philadelphia, Chicago, LA or New York?

Is it rhetoric, or are they serious?
I have been encouraged by the speeches and rallies., and been hoping to see some real world actions taken.
Have there been any arrests of police or military by an Oathkeeper?
Please post successes.

[cheapseats]

Have there been any arrests of police or military by an Oathkeeper?
Please post successes.

Lots 'n lots of PAID ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVES.

[Dr.3D]

Typically, those in the military will follow orders, no matter what they are. There is a certain amount of brainwashing done in basic training to make this happen.

This is especially true if they are lied to and told something along the lines that those they are attacking are terrorists. It's pretty hard to hear the truth when you are in the military.

[klamath]

In a few cases the military would fire upon Americans where a lot of hype was surrounding a particular case. Riots where willfull random destruction of private property was going on with violence against the troops themselves. The Roddney King riots is a good example.
Now on a continued massive campaign against peaceful protesters or Americans in their homes? No. The chain of command would fall apart.
There are two many different political opinions within the ranks. Just the other day I got a friend request on my myspace page from my platoon sargeant of years ago. I went to his page and found that his hero's were Castro, Ho chi minh, and other communists. I would have never know.

[constituent]

Is it rhetoric, or are they serious?

Doesn't matter, "All enemies foreign or domestic" provides plenty of wiggle room.

Who defines the "enemies?"

[Dr.3D]

Doesn't matter, "All enemies foreign or domestic" provides plenty of wiggle room.

Who defines the "enemies?"

If the government defines the "enemies", then it could end up with the military defending the government instead of the citizens.

[constituent]

If the government defines the "enemies", then it could end up with the military defending the government instead of the citizens.

In deed.

I'm also thinking about the mad general from Dr. Strangelove.

[denison]

Foreign troops on US soil will die rather quickly.

You mean like american troops in Afghanistan and Iraq? I definitely agree.

[catdd]

I think there would be a division among them and chaos would erupt after their own friends and family were shot down.
The time would be ripe for a military coup.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[devil21]

"Protect against enemies both foreign and domestic"

Sorry but I have little faith. If the vast majority of the military can't see that the enemy is DOMESTIC and that THEY ARE ALREADY HERE, then I can't see them suddenly waking up when the order eventually comes down to eliminate the "threats". The real threats are already here and they live in DC.