FREE MONEY - If you are a Detroit Resident

[Cowlesy]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html

Everybody lining up to get their checks!

[Cowlesy]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/21216628/index.html

Looks pretty grim after watching this video.

[coyote_sprit]

I'm thinking of Photoshopping a popup that says win free money and has a federal government logo on it.

[angelatc]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21215978/detail.html

Everybody lining up to get their checks!

Wow. The comments in that thread are pretty, uh, crude.

[angelatc]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/21216628/index.html

Looks pretty grim after watching this video.

Those people have been in that line their entire lives.

[Cowlesy]

Wow. The comments in that thread are pretty, uh, crude.

Oh I don't think I even want to look.

[Anti Federalist]

Oh I don't think I even want to look.

We. Are. Fucked.

Between the comments and the story itself...

http://jamie-online.com/random-jamz/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/facepalm.jpg

[Cowlesy]

We. Are. Fucked.

Between the comments and the story itself...

http://jamie-online.com/random-jamz/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/facepalm.jpg

Sometimes I feel like there is a growing piece of society who would gladly trade their vote, for a steady stream of handouts. Like a quid-pro-quo.

Ever see that movie 300? It reminds me of when the deformed spartan goes to King Xerxes, and Xerxes offers him whatever he wants and says, "Unlike your cruel King who asks that you stand, I ask only that you kneel".

[micahnelson]

When the king stole 700B and gave it to his friends, why are we bitching about the 15 million that actually got back to the people in one way or another?

Yes, in principle, we should oppose it. This money is a rounding error compared to the money they gave wall street.

[Cowlesy]

When the king stole 700B and gave it to his friends, why are we bitching about the 15 million that actually got back to the people in one way or another?

Yes, in principle, we should oppose it. This money is a rounding error compared to the money they gave wall street.

They're simply handing out free money to people who don't pay taxes.

Straight redistribution of wealth needs to be called out big or small.

It is just as bad as bailing out any corporation whether it is a bank, or General Motors.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Anyone find the oxymoron of handing out money to the HOMELESS to get a HOME? If you don't have a job, how do these idiots expect the HOMELESS to pay for their HOMES? Such stupidity. I'm almost about to pull an Irwin Schiff and Karl Hess if this shit continues to such absurdities. Everyone need's to practice civil disobedience or else this will continue. The people who blatantly steal our money aren't going to stop, and they certainly aren't going to arrest a quarter of the population, especially the PRODUCING population.

[Anti Federalist]

Sometimes I feel like there is a growing piece of society who would gladly trade their vote, for a steady stream of handouts. Like a quid-pro-quo.

Ever see that movie 300? It reminds me of when the deformed spartan goes to King Xerxes, and Xerxes offers him whatever he wants and says, "Unlike your cruel King who asks that you stand, I ask only that you kneel".

Growing?

47 percent of wage earners pay no federal income tax.

Government is the largest employer by far in the US.

The tipping point has already been reached, this is unsustainable, unmanageable and will end, regardless.

The fight will be over whose terms it will end on.

[micahnelson]

They're simply handing out free money to people who don't pay taxes.

Straight redistribution of wealth needs to be called out big or small.

It is just as bad as bailing out any corporation whether it is a bank, or General Motors.

Well its not quite as bad in practice, though it is the same in principle.

First off, its a smaller amount.

Second, this money will be spent on products which will at least stimulate some local spending unlike bank bailouts which sit in reserves.

It isn't good, but I would prefer money go to the poor rather than the rich if I have to choose one or the other.

[micahnelson]

Growing?

47 percent of wage earners pay no federal income tax.



Please get your facts straight, the lower 50% of wage earners in this country only control 20% of the wealth. Of course they aren't going to be paying much in taxes.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Well its not quite as bad in practice, though it is the same in principle.

First off, its a smaller amount.

Second, this money will be spent on products which will at least stimulate some local spending unlike bank bailouts which sit in reserves.

It isn't good, but I would prefer money go to the poor rather than the rich if I have to choose one or the other.

What? You buy into the Keynesian fallacy. Giving people money, to just spend, isn't growing the Economy. It's shrinking the Economy. Economies only grow by savings and investment. It's the classic broken glass fallacy. You take money from the more productive members of society who save, produce, and invest which in turn creates goods, services, and increases production capabilities to give to people who just consume and consume and consume and produce nothing. THIS IS NOT GOOD.

I prefer the allocation of resources go to the most competent people in the market. A free-market does this; bad business's fail and the assets are bought and properly liquidated by competent people. In essence, the free-market is the only accurate function of the correct allocation of resources. Bad allocation fails, and the capital eventually finds it's way into demand (What people want).

We need to actively fight this, and educate people. Handing money that is printed off the press to poor people to just consume and purchase without ANY PRODUCTION devalues the dollar, creates market bubbles, and destroys economies. :(

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Please get your facts straight, the lower 50% of wage earners in this country only control 20% of the wealth. Of course they aren't going to be paying much in taxes.

Moral hazard much? They pay no taxes, and yet, can vote in people who favor increasing taxes to give them money. It's extortion, legalized. In it's primordial essence, the state will always institutionalize rules and laws to make legal theft and racketeering. Democracy is the greatest form of this criminality. I say, only people who pay some form of taxation should be allowed to vote, if we are to keep the current system. I would much rather all taxation be repeled and the Federal Government get it's revenue from and by the State's. The State's will decide how to accrue this revenue. You then have 50 different choices, and ultimately you will have a lot of choices. More people will migrate to states with no income taxation, no property taxation, etc. The State's that run deficites constantly will fail and they will have to change their ways. At least then, it won't affect you. That was the original intent of Federalism which we have all abandoned.

Small States and Decentralization > National Centralized States.

[Dionysus]

If you ask me, it sure beats cannibalism. I like the charity aspect, and I think there are some big, difficult issues involved. These people are pooooooor, and they need to eat. There are just so many things to fix in America. How did we get here?

[Sandman33]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/21216628/index.html

Looks like this lady was right all along. She even took her kid out of school to see her messiah.

YouTube - OBAMA'S GONNA PAY FOR MY GAS... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Man, this is growing rapidly out of control. We need to seriously infest at least ONE State with tons of Liberty minded people in the House and Senate and Governor so when it does collapse and the "transformation" proposed erodes any liberty we do have, we can say, no and seceede. I have my doubts with New Hampshire due to how close it is to DC. I think Alaska and Texas are the two best shots.

[amonasro]

If you ask me, it sure beats cannibalism. I like the charity aspect, and I think there are some big, difficult issues involved. These people are pooooooor, and they need to eat. There are just so many things to fix in America. How did we get here?

You bring up a good point. Thousands of starving, desperate, nearly homeless people in Detroit... where do you draw the line between economic principle and keeping the peace?

[FSP-Rebel]

Man, this is growing rapidly out of control. We need to seriously infest at least ONE State with tons of Liberty minded people in the House and Senate and Governor so when it does collapse and the "transformation" proposed erodes any liberty we do have, we can say, no and seceede. I have my doubts with New Hampshire due to how close it is to DC. I think Alaska and Texas are the two best shots.

LOL, NH is our only hope. Beautiful place and great people.

[puppetmaster]

Those comments crack me up!!

[puppetmaster]

You bring up a good point. Thousands of starving, desperate, nearly homeless people in Detroit... where do you draw the line between economic principle and keeping the peace?


There should not be a line between those two.

[Danke]

Moral hazard much? They pay no taxes...

Not really. The "lower" classes pay a lot in taxes. If you are working, most pay 15.3% in FICA alone. Then there is the inflation tax, property tax, sales tax, gas tax, etc. and the various fees.

If I make a widget or provide a service, I will do it for a profit, so another big hit is that products and services are more expensive because taxes are passed along down stream to the end consumer.

[fisharmor]

This behavior will never stop.
If we want to have a prayer of stopping it, then we have to address the fact that the line was entirely monochromatic.

There is something else at work here that we can't discuss, because as soon as the facts are examined we've introduced "racism" to the equation. And nothing is as effective as the race card at making everyone shut up, sit down, and follow orders.

[Cowlesy]

This behavior will never stop.
If we want to have a prayer of stopping it, then we have to address the fact that the line was entirely monochromatic.

There is something else at work here that we can't discuss, because as soon as the facts are examined we've introduced "racism" to the equation. And nothing is as effective as the race card at making everyone shut up, sit down, and follow orders.

I don't believe race has anything to do with it. These people are a product of their environment. You start off with a group of people who over time migrate to an urban area because things seem better because there are all these social outreach/handout programs, and you create urban ghetto societies --- it has zip to do with their race. It could easily occur with a urban area full of white people.


Once jobs started to leave areas like Detroit, the State jumps in with all these handouts and aid, and look what the State has wrought us.

Making it about race immediately stifles and reframes the debate. The issue is the State being the drug-pusher, and the drug being taxpayer largesse.

[YumYum]

This behavior will never stop.
If we want to have a prayer of stopping it, then we have to address the fact that the line was entirely monochromatic.

There is something else at work here that we can't discuss, because as soon as the facts are examined we've introduced "racism" to the equation. And nothing is as effective as the race card at making everyone shut up, sit down, and follow orders.

How does race play into this? Obama made promises to Detriot during his campaign that he can't keep, so he is throwing some bread crumbs at these poor people. We give Israel $20 billion a year, according to ex-Congressman James Traficant, and nobody seems to mind. We Americans have got to make sure that God's chosen people have universal health care.

[Cowlesy]

How does race play into this? Obama made promises to Detriot during his campaign that he can't keep, so he is throwing some bread crumbs at these poor people. We give Israel $20 billion a year, according to ex-Congressman James Traficant, and nobody seems to mind. We Americans have got to make sure that God's chosen people have universal health care.

Seriously? Now that we have a racial component, we're going to bolt-on an Israel component and quote Traficant for survey data?

Sorry folks, there is now no hope for this thread. It has jumped the tracks into the usual squabbling/bickering about blaming typical stereotype X or Y and not getting to the root of the issue which in my mind is the State.

[YumYum]

Seriously? Now that we have a racial component, we're going to bolt-on an Israel component and quote Traficant for survey data?

Sorry folks, there is now no hope for this thread. It has jumped the tracks into the usual squabbling/bickering about blaming typical stereotype X or Y and not getting to the root of the issue which in my mind is the State.

It is the state, that is my point. Government welfare is welfare, no matter who the the beneficiary is.

[constituent]

Well, I see the "carrots," but where are they hiding the "sticks?"

[constituent]

Sometimes I feel like there is a growing piece of society who would gladly trade their vote, for a steady stream of handouts. Like a quid-pro-quo.

Ever see that movie 300? It reminds me of when the deformed spartan goes to King Xerxes, and Xerxes offers him whatever he wants and says, "Unlike your cruel King who asks that you stand, I ask only that you kneel".

Yes, the pacifier state.

Softer. Gentler. Brow-beatings.

[Johnnybags]

you can bet those criminals from far and wide are en route to scam it. How about debit cards to all detroiters for the strip clubs and casino's?

[Anti Federalist]

Please get your facts straight, the lower 50% of wage earners in this country only control 20% of the wealth. Of course they aren't going to be paying much in taxes.

What fact is wrong?

After deductions, earned income credits and so on, do 47 percent of wage earners pay no federal income tax or not?

In fact, the top 50 percent pay 97 percent of federal income taxes.

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

If "controlling wealth" is the issue, then it should revert back to what it used to be, if you didn't "own wealth" you couldn't vote.

One half of the country getting handouts, whether it's banksters or hustlers, one half of the country being employed by the tax dollars and the other half paying for it is unsustainable and will collapse.

[Anti Federalist]

Seriously? Now that we have a racial component, we're going to bolt-on an Israel component and quote Traficant for survey data?

Sorry folks, there is now no hope for this thread. It has jumped the tracks into the usual squabbling/bickering about blaming typical stereotype X or Y and not getting to the root of the issue which in my mind is the State.

There is a racial component in this regard:

What the state has done to systematically destroy the black community and black family was a "beta test".

The whole population is next in line.

We all will be ******* on the new global plantation.

[constituent]

What fact is wrong?

After deductions, earned income credits and so on, do 47 percent of wage earners pay no federal income tax or not?

Actually they do, in the form of "no interest," "no questions asked, " prearranged, bimonthly loans.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

It is the state, that is my point. Government welfare is welfare, no matter who the the beneficiary is.

Yet, you advocate Universal Healthcare which is the essence of power; that over one's life and health. :rolleyes:

And how to pay for it? By stealing from others....oh how the morality is oozing from your pores.

How about we get rid of the 16th and the IRS and let people keep the fruit of their labor. I know you think you are morally superior by playing Robin Hood, but the fact is, you aren't.

[Anti Federalist]

Yet, you advocate Universal Healthcare which is the essence of power; that over one's life and health. :rolleyes:

And how to pay for it? By stealing from others....oh how the morality is oozing from your pores.

How about we get rid of the 16th and the IRS and let people keep the fruit of their labor. I know you think you are morally superior by playing Robin Hood, but the fact is, you aren't.

Robin Hood robbed the tax collectors, not necessarily "the rich".:eek:

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Not really. The "lower" classes pay a lot in taxes. If you are working, most pay 15.3% in FICA alone. Then there is the inflation tax, property tax, sales tax, gas tax, etc. and the various fees.

If I make a widget or provide a service, I will do it for a profit, so another big hit is that products and services are more expensive because taxes are passed along down stream to the end consumer.

I was talking about Income Tax. They don't care if its 1% or 90% as long as they get "free kickbacks". In its essence is what De Tocqueville's famous quote is about:

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it.

We're talking about voting. There can be no denial that there is now a major bloc of people wholly subsidized and owned by the Federal Government, whose sole reason for voting is to insure that their comeuppance is either maintained or increased at the expense of others. These people pay no income tax, therefore argue for ever increasing taxation on the productive members of society because its "free money" in the form of kick-backs. They don't care if its 5% or 40% that see's the day of light for them, as long as it's something. It's a slow drain on wealth, and the economy.

So, if we are to even remotely keep the current system, we need to institute that only those who pay into income taxation are the only people allowed to vote because they have a moral obligation and reason to not vote to plunder others. Imagine, if tax-payers were the only ones who could vote! They would never willingly vote to increase their taxes, thus, the State would be somewhat checked. It isn't the optimal or best idea, nor even one that I think is even reasonable to pursue because the rubicon has nearly been crossed (50%).

That is why we need total revolution and that is why we are here, and that is why this crisis due to the policies of the aforementioned is coming to bear. I hope that the coming collapse is years away (Because I'm not fully prepared :D, and we need more time to influence other's about Liberty), but I'm not sure we have that much time. So when these people realize that we are bankrupt as a nation you need to educate them, or at worst, protect what property you have. They are parasitic. I don't blame the people, I blame the institutions that allowed this to occur. Well, I blame the people somewhat for not having the vigilance and foresight to see this...., but it's mostly the institution.

Remember, the people you are talking to don't understand basic Econ 101. All they understand is higher income taxation = more kickbacks from the Government.

[YumYum]

Yet, you advocate Universal Healthcare which is the essence of power; that over one's life and health. :rolleyes:

I have stated in the past that we pay Israel's health care %100, and if our government is going to do that, it should take care of Americans first and foremost. And it doesn't matter if its Israel; that would apply to any country if we were paying their health care; whether it be Belguim, France or Mexico.


And how to pay for it? By stealing from others....

What, Israel's health care? They take it out of my paycheck.


oh how the morality is oozing from your pores.

At least I have morality.


I know you think you are morally superior by playing Robin Hood, but the fact is, you aren't.

???????

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I have stated in the past that we pay Israel's health care %100, and if our government is going to do that, it should take care of Americans first and foremost. And it doesn't matter if its Israel; that would apply to any country if we were paying their health care; whether it be Belguim, France or Mexico.



What, Israel's health care? They take it out of my paycheck.



At least I have morality.



???????

Two wrongs don't make a right. We should be abolishing all foreign aid AND abolishing the IRS and repeling the 16th. Secondly, the foreign aid we give to other countries, we have no idea how it's being spent, but I can assure you, the aid to Israel is mostly for warfare type items.

[devil21]

And as should have been expected, the free money giveaway nearly turned into a full fledged riot. People taken away by ambulance, broken property, strong arm robbery of applications, etc.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091007/METRO01/910070396/1409/METRO


Chaos at Cobo: Detroiters turn out for federal help

Charlie LeDuff, George Hunter and Santiago Esparza / The Detroit News

Detroit -- Thousands hoping to get applications for federal help on rent and utility bills turned Cobo Center into a chaotic scene today.

They came by foot, wheelchair, bicycle and car. About six left by ambulance after tensions rose and people were trampled, according to a paramedic on the scene. One unfortunate soul got his car booted.

Detroiters were trying to pick up 5,000 federal assistance applications from the city at Cobo because Detroit received nearly $15.2 million in federal dollars under the Homeless Prevention and Rapid Re-Housing Program, which is for temporary financial assistance and housing services to individuals and families who are homeless, or who would be homeless without this help.

People in wheelchairs and others using canes were being leaned on by people too weak to stand. Emergency medical technicians on the scene said they treated applicants who were injured during the rush to get inside the venue.

That's what happens when a town full of broke people gets a whiff of free money, said Walter Williams, 51, who came before the sun to get an application and a shot at some federal assistance.

"This morning, I seen the curtain pulled back on the misery," he said. "People fighting over a line. People threatening to shoot each other. Is this what we've come to?"

Outside Cobo on Wednesday, some people reportedly were going through the crowd, snatching the necessary applications from those who'd already obtained them. There also was a constant din of screams from people insisting they be let inside.

LaTanya Williams, a 32-year-old Detroiter, quickly filled out her form because "people are stealing them."

[angelatc]

If you ask me, it sure beats cannibalism. I like the charity aspect, and I think there are some big, difficult issues involved. These people are pooooooor, and they need to eat. There are just so many things to fix in America. How did we get here?

This *is* cannibalism. These people don't need anything to eat. They live in Michigan - hand-out land.

[angelatc]

Robin Hood robbed the tax collectors, not necessarily "the rich".:eek:

I love the fact that I am not the only person who knows this. The people in that story were poor because the king was taxing them into poverty.

[lx43]

These poor people would be much better off without a "safety net"--the only safety net it provides is to the politicans because they get re-elected by these people.. First they sit on their asses all day waiting for someonen to give them something. You never learn a good work ethic by doing this, and thus, will always be stuck in the perpetual cycle of poverty. Whats even worse is they are breeding a whole new generation of parasites to continue it.

[bunklocoempire]

It's all coming together nicely. Take the "free" money or take the bullet.

All the more reason to help your fellow man before the government does the "helping".

Bunkloco

[angelatc]

LOL! Watching the news right now. For some reason they limited the number of applications that would be available instead of just putting them on the counter in the liquor stores - oops! I mean libraries - and holding a lottery...so there were con men walking around the back of the lone selling counterfeit applications.

[Anti Federalist]

I love the fact that I am not the only person who knows this. The people in that story were poor because the king was taxing them into poverty.

;)