Dial 911 and die - You will NOT believe this story.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm at a loss for words on this one...

Briefly: a Phoenix AZ homeowner suffers a home invasion.

Homeowner uses his firearm to subdue the invader and then calls 911.

Cops arrive, blast the HOMEOWNER six times in the back and then, while the 911 line was till open and recording DISCUSS HOW TO COVER UP THEIR FUCK UP WITH MAN THEY THOUGHT WAS DEAD AT THEIR FEET!!

Family Says 911 Tape Caught Cops Planning Cover-Up After Shooting

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/09/23/Family_Says_911_Tape_Caught_Cops_Planning_Cover-Up_After_Shooting.htm?=protectandserve

By JAMIE ROSS
ShareThis

PHOENIX (CN) - A homeowner says a Phoenix police officer shot him six times in the back during a 911 home-invasion call, and the 911 tape recorded the officer's partner saying, "That's all right. Don't worry about it. I got your back. ... We clear?" The family says the officers were not aware that the 911 call was still recording as they spoke about covering up the shooting.

In their complaint in Maricopa County Court, Anthony and Lesley Arambula say an armed intruder "crashed through the front window" of their home on Sept. 17, 2008 and ran into one of their son's bedrooms.

Anthony, worried about his son who was still in his bedroom, says he "held the intruder calmly at gunpoint" and called 911.

Phoenix Police officers already in the neighborhood heard the crash of the Arambulas' window. When they approached the house, Lesley says, she told Sgt. Sean Coutts that her husband was inside holding the intruder at gunpoint. Lesley says Coutts failed to pass on that information to the two other officers.

Inside the house, the Arambulas say, Officer Brian Lilly shot Anthony six times in the back while he was still on the phone with the 911 operator - twice when he was on the ground.

The officers ran into the bedroom after Anthony told them, "You just killed ... you just killed the homeowner. The bad guy is in there."

The complaint states that Officer Lilly "admitted that it was only after Tony was laying, bullet-ridden, on the ground that he assessed the situation. The 911 tape continued to record what happened even after Officer Lilly unloaded his weapon into Tony, including Officer Lilly's post-shooting, one-word 'assessment': 'Fuck.'

"Tony believed he was going to die; the 911 tape records his plaintive goodbye to his family: '... I love you ... I love you.' Then Tony made what he believed was a dying request to the officers; he did not want his young family to see him shot and bloodied. Officers callously ignored his request and painfully dragged Tony by his injured leg, through the home and out to his backyard patio, where they left him bloodied and shot right in front of Lesley, Matthew and Zachary."

The Arambulas say the officers later dragged Anthony onto gravel, then put him on top of the hot hood of a squad car, and "drove the squad car down the street with Tony lying on top, writing in pain."

According to the complaint, Lilly can be heard on the 911 tape telling Coutts, "We fucked up."

Lilly says on the tape that he did not know where Anthony's gun was when he shot him and that he "opened fire because he heard loud noises and saw someone who looked like he might be the 'Hispanic' male they were pursuing" before getting to the Arambulas' house, according to the complaint.

The complaint states: "Sgt. Coutts knew that officers has just shot up and likely killed an innocent homeowner and the husband of Lesley, with whom he had spoken before entering the home, instead of the armed intruder. Sgt. Coutts was quick to commence the cover-up of their terrible mistake. Sgt. Coutts asked Office Lilly where Tony's gun was at the time Officer Lilly had opened fire on Tony. Officer Lilly admitted that he did not know where Tony's gun was: 'I don't know. I heard screaming and I fired.'"

Lilly later told a police internal affairs investigator that Anthony had pointed his gun in his direction, "in the 'ready' position," the complaint states. But Anthony Arambula says he was facing away from the officers, who could not have even seen his gun.

The complaint continues: "Still not knowing that he is being recorded n the 911 tape, Sgt. Coutts interrupted Officer Lilly's admission and apology with his assurance that the cover-up would commence: 'That's all right. Don't worry about it. I got your back. ... We clear?'"

After the shooting, the Arambulas say, the Phoenix Police Department treated them "like suspects in a drug bust," denying Lesley, Michael and Zachary information about Anthony's condition and denying friends and family members access to him at the hospital.

Anthony Arambula survived, but continues to suffer pain, which he expects will last for the rest of his life.

The City of Phoenix and Officer Dzenan Ahmetovic also are named as defendants.

The Arambulas seek punitive damages for gross negligence, civil rights violations, failure to supervise, excessive force, deliberate indifference to medical needs, false arrest, and emotional distress. They are represented by Michael Manning with Stinson Morrison Hecker.

[FSP-Rebel]

I'm fuckin pissed!

[tpreitzel]

What cops do best: CYA of your sidekick. Who cares about integrity or facing the consequences?

[FSP-Rebel]

So, get up here to NH, man.

[RedStripe]

Absolutely disgusting. Those pigs should have their pictures and personal information plastered all over television.

[ChickenHawk]

I'm at a loss for words on this one...

x2

[Rael]

That is seriously fucked up. :mad:

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

http://i34.tinypic.com/33kyd7s.png ...fuckers!

[Dieseler]

Man this is horrible.
Only lesson I can take from it is if it breaks the glass, kill its ass.
Then move everyone you love outside the scene till the cops come in and do their investigation.
Can't trust anyone with your life or the lives of your family.
Not cops or crooks.

[Liberty_Tree]

:mad:


Unbelievable.

[Reason]

wow

[pcosmar]

So where were the "good guys" I keep hearing about.

Yet another added to the list. :mad:

[Dieseler]

So where were the "good guys" I keep hearing about.

Yet another added to the list. :mad:

Ain't no good guys man.
Just guys.

[youngbuck]

...and these are the people we're suppose to trust with guns? God forbid the average law abiding citizen be allowed to bear arms or who knows what would happen!

[Rael]

if it breaks the glass, kill its ass.


this

[squarepusher]

omg

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[AdamT]

Jezus christ F these bastard pig dogs.

[BlackTerrel]

Wow... that is unbelievable. Think what would have been if it hadn't been recorded...

[Sandman33]

Shoot first and ask questions later.

[tggroo7]

I agree that this is absolutely horrible, but I think there is a little excessive speculation with this article saying that the officers tried to cover it up. The one officer asking the other where the victim's gun was is a weak argument for "commencing a cover up." What evidence was there of a cover-up other than the one guy saying "I got your back?" "I got your back" was probably just the one officer trying to calm down the other officer for the time being...I'd assume the officer that shot Tony was freaking out (hence the "Fuck" comment) and therefore, the other other guy just wanted to keep him calm. I can't say I wouldn't say the same thing after witnessing someone shoot a guy in the back and realize he's probably going to be in jail for a long time...I know I sure as hell wouldn't go apeshit on him, who knows what he would do or what was going through his mind.

Of course, the officers did majory fuck up in several different aspects, but calling it a cover up is a bold accusation with little evidence. If they were trying to cover it up, I would think their would be statements much more incriminating than just the two quoted in the article.

[BuddyRey]

What a horrifying story.

There is definitely a lesson here; the police are not always your friends, and bringing them into an active, unsolved conflict often does more harm than good.

[phill4paul]

:mad:

[messana]

And he was cleared for it too.



A Phoenix police officer who mistakenly shot an armed homeowner during a search for an intruder was cleared of wrongdoing this week by a committee that reviews such shootings.

The ruling by the Phoenix Use of Force Board determined Officer Brian Lilly acted within police policy in the incident, in which he fired six shots at the homeowner amid the confusion of a home invasion last September.

The shooting hospitalized homeowner Tony Arambula, who earlier this year sought a $5.75 million settlement in the case.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/09/25/20090925phxarambula0925.html#

[SimpleName]

The Arambulas say the officers later dragged Anthony onto gravel, then put him on top of the hot hood of a squad car, and "drove the squad car down the street with Tony lying on top, writing in pain."


HOLY GOD! Can someone explain to me what the hell THAT is about? It is so outrage, it sounds like a joke. I don't even know if I can explain what I'm thinking. It sounds...just...what the hell? Threw him on the hood and drove down the road? When? The family didn't stop them? And for what goddamn reason?

[hvac ak47]

I agree that this is absolutely horrible, but I think there is a little excessive speculation with this article saying that the officers tried to cover it up. The one officer asking the other where the victim's gun was is a weak argument for "commencing a cover up." What evidence was there of a cover-up other than the one guy saying "I got your back?" "I got your back" was probably just the one officer trying to calm down the other officer for the time being...I'd assume the officer that shot Tony was freaking out (hence the "Fuck" comment) and therefore, the other other guy just wanted to keep him calm. I can't say I wouldn't say the same thing after witnessing someone shoot a guy in the back and realize he's probably going to be in jail for a long time...I know I sure as hell wouldn't go apeshit on him, who knows what he would do or what was going through his mind.

Of course, the officers did majory fuck up in several different aspects, but calling it a cover up is a bold accusation with little evidence. If they were trying to cover it up, I would think their would be statements much more incriminating than just the two quoted in the article.

"Sgt. Coutts was quick to commence the cover-up of their terrible mistake. Sgt. Coutts asked Office Lilly where Tony's gun was at the time Officer Lilly had opened fire on Tony. Officer Lilly admitted that he did not know where Tony's gun was: 'I don't know. I heard screaming and I fired.'"

Lilly later told a police internal affairs investigator that Anthony had pointed his gun in his direction, "in the 'ready' position,"

Keep in mind the pigs didnt know there was a recording and tryed to say the homeowner pointed the gun at them.

[pcosmar]

And he was cleared for it too.




http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/09/25/20090925phxarambula0925.html#

Wow,
The first story pissed me off,, but this,

A Phoenix police officer who mistakenly shot an armed homeowner during a search for an intruder was cleared of wrongdoing this week by a committee that reviews such shootings.

The ruling by the Phoenix Use of Force Board determined Officer Brian Lilly acted within police policy in the incident, in which he fired six shots at the homeowner amid the confusion of a home invasion last September.

Is incomprehensible.

Added to the list.
These people are my enemy, and will be considered as such.
No pity
No mercy
No remorse

[Anti Federalist]

There is definitely a lesson here; the police are not always your friends, and bringing them into an active, unsolved conflict often does more harm than good.

^^^That +1776

I can't stress that enough, you bring a bunch of trigger happy cops into a "hot" situation, and you or your family stand a good chance of being the ones who end up dead.

Do not call the cops, do not talk to the cops; they are not your friends, they are not there to help.

If you haven't already, watch this!!

YouTube - Dont Talk to Police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc)

[Freedom 4 all]

Wow,
The first story pissed me off,, but this,

Is incomprehensible.

Added to the list.
These people are my enemy, and will be considered as such.
No pity
No mercy
No remorse

I think some strongly worded letters may be in order.

[mport1]

This type of stuff happens all the time. I'm not surprised at how these criminals acted. Usually we don't get a recording of it though.

[haaaylee]

another good reason to never hang up the phone after dialing 911 . . .

[amy31416]

another good reason to never hang up the phone after dialing 911 . . .

Or to not call 911 in the first place.

[Deborah K]

"Sgt. Coutts was quick to commence the cover-up of their terrible mistake. Sgt. Coutts asked Office Lilly where Tony's gun was at the time Officer Lilly had opened fire on Tony. Officer Lilly admitted that he did not know where Tony's gun was: 'I don't know. I heard screaming and I fired.'"

Lilly later told a police internal affairs investigator that Anthony had pointed his gun in his direction, "in the 'ready' position,"

Keep in mind the pigs didnt know there was a recording and tryed to say the homeowner pointed the gun at them.

How was that cop cleared? How was he cleared? :mad: How is that possible?

[pcosmar]

How was that cop cleared? How was he cleared? :mad: How is that possible?

You have to ask?? :confused: :mad:

[Deborah K]

You have to ask?? :confused: :mad:

Of course I have to ask! Isn't there a lawsuit pending? How can the police department justify clearing him when it's all on tape? The vic's attn'y will surely expose all of this. What in the hell are they thinking? Those cops should be suspended w/out pay and forced to do restitution on TOP of having the sh&t sued out of them. :mad:

[phill4paul]

WTF? The cop claims that the homeowner pointed the weapon at him in a ready position, yet he shot the man 6 times in the back?

I mean WTF????.

[Freedom 4 all]

Of course I have to ask! Isn't there a lawsuit pending? How can the police department justify clearing him when it's all on tape? The vic's attn'y will surely expose all of this. What in the hell are they thinking? Those cops should be suspended w/out pay and forced to do retribution on TOP of having the sh&t sued out of them. :mad:

In a perfect world that's exactly what would happen. In the real world police seeking justice for offenses committed by their own is about as likely as having the Crips return your wallet with a letter of apology. The only way police ever see justice is if WTP fight tooth and nail for it, and even then it's always some half assed punishment like 4 months in minimum security for outright murder.

[mport1]

Or to not call 911 in the first place.

Yes, calling the police should always be your last resort. There are countless people who have called the police for help who have ended up being harmed by them when they arrive.

Don't open the door for them, call them, or interact with them unless you really need to. They are often dangerous to your safety and really aren't concerned with helping you and they have no obligation to do so.

[Deborah K]

Yes, calling the police should always be your last resort. There are countless people who have called the police for help who have ended up being harmed by them when they arrive.

Don't open the door for them, call them, or interact with them unless you really need to. They are often dangerous to your safety and really aren't concerned with helping you and they have no obligation to do so.

I don't agree with this. The cops in my area are okay. Our experiences with them have been good ones. NOT saying we haven't had a few run-ins with them in the past. But that wasn't around here. They seem friendly and helpful around here. Which will be good when shtf.

I don't think it's a good idea for people to be encouraging a negative attitude toward ALL cops.

[squarepusher]

the cops are trained pitbulls, sure they are going to bite a childs head off once in a while. The high ups need the cops to be insane and the public scared, so of course they wouldn't actually make one take responsibility so they would think about their actions.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't agree with this. The cops in my area are okay. Our experiences with them have been good ones. NOT saying we haven't had a few run-ins with them in the past. But that wasn't around here. They seem friendly and helpful around here. Which will be good when shtf.

I don't think it's a good idea for people to be encouraging a negative attitude toward ALL cops.

Watch the video I posted.

I'm sure you have heard Miranda rights before, specifically about the right to remain silent and that anything you say can and will be used against you in court.

You are aware that the converse is NOT true: anything you say to the cops that can be used to exonerate you or prove your innocence in court is NOT allowed to be used, in every state, under federal evidence rules and court "procedure", statements you make that can prove your innocence will be dismissed as "hearsay" and thrown out as evidence.

The state is broke, evil and corrupt.

The state will send troops into a sovereign nation with no legal or moral justification, and kill a million people without batting an eyelash.

Cops are the front line enforcement arm of that state.

They are the enemy, and always, no matter how polite and chummy they may be on your local bowling league, they are always, always, cops first.

If it's you or them, it will be you going down every time.

Ignore this at your own peril.

[Anti Federalist]

YouTube - Dont Talk to Police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc&feature=player_embedded)

[Pauliana]

I'd like to know what it takes for a review board to actually rule against a cop... has it ever happened???

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

YouTube - Dont Talk to Police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc&feature=player_embedded)

really good video!

[amy31416]

I've looked at this story twice already, and I just don't have the words...at least ones that are within the forum guidelines.

[BuddyRey]

YouTube - Dont Talk to Police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc&feature=player_embedded)

Great stuff!

[devil21]

Ive been trying to figure out why the put him on the squad car hood and drove around the neighborhood????

[pcosmar]

Ive been trying to figure out why the put him on the squad car hood and drove around the neighborhood????

Trophy.
:mad:

[devil21]

Naaaa I dont buy that, given that they were already in "oh shit" mode. I assume it was part of their cover up plan but for the life of me I cant figure out what the angle is. By that point the guy was already shot 6 times.

[Deborah K]

Watch the video I posted.

I'm sure you have heard Miranda rights before, specifically about the right to remain silent and that anything you say can and will be used against you in court.

You are aware that the converse is NOT true: anything you say to the cops that can be used to exonerate you or prove your innocence in court is NOT allowed to be used, in every state, under federal evidence rules and court "procedure", statements you make that can prove your innocence will be dismissed as "hearsay" and thrown out as evidence.

The state is broke, evil and corrupt.

The state will send troops into a sovereign nation with no legal or moral justification, and kill a million people without batting an eyelash.

Cops are the front line enforcement arm of that state.

They are the enemy, and always, no matter how polite and chummy they may be on your local bowling league, they are always, always, cops first.

If it's you or them, it will be you going down every time.

Ignore this at your own peril.

This isn't about "ignoring" something at my own peril. I understand the "us against them" mentality that is prevalent in the cop community. I'm fully capable of exercising caution in any situation. But I'm not okay with exacting hatred against an entire group of people. I think it's a dangerous practice.

[Dieseler]

Gotta keep in mind, we're not dealing with the best and brightest here.
Look at it any way you want and even try to figure out what they were thinking if you want to but it all boils down to one thing. Those Cops did not know they were busted by the 911 tape so God only knows what they were going to do with that guy.
Doesn't really matter.
Just know one thing.
You want to do everything in your power to plan ahead so that you don't fall into the same predicament.
Think about it.
Do you have a plan to protect you and yours?
Have you shared the plan with the family?

Edit:...
It took me a lot of years struggling with the whys and hows until I learned that it really doesn't matter much why or how as long as you reach the right end result.
This works for almost everything.
I'm not that smart either by the way, I'm sure a lot of younger guys have mastered this already.
Now run back through this whole scenario until you find the point at which this man made the mistake that almost cost him his life.
Think about it.

Oh, and before you jump on me for saying this so callously, remember this,
Dead is dead.
Don't matter who was right or wrong.

[devil21]

His mistake was allowing the intruder to live while waiting for the police to arrive. It's gotten to the point where you should just light the intruder up till he doesn't move anymore THEN call the police. By the time they get there you will be unarmed and safely sitting outside waiting for them to come clean up the mess. The intruder can't turn around and sue you if he's dead and the cops will have no choice but to take your side of the story as gospel. Oh and you don't risk a dumbfuck cop that's adrenalined out of his mind mistaking you for the burglar and shooting first.

Cops are not your friends. They are not there to protect you. They are not there to serve you. They are there to arrest and prosecute you.

[Anti Federalist]

This isn't about "ignoring" something at my own peril. I understand the "us against them" mentality that is prevalent in the cop community. I'm fully capable of exercising caution in any situation. But I'm not okay with exacting hatred against an entire group of people. I think it's a dangerous practice.

I'm sorry if I came off sounding "haughty" in my reply to you.

But you're playing a dangerous game here by saying things like this:


But I'm not okay with exacting hatred against an entire group of people

I'm sure any number of Stasi, OKRANA, KGB and Shutzstaffel were decent folks with families and homes and cuddly dogs.

But they served an evil system, knowingly.

That makes them dangerous and not to be fully trusted, ever.

[Dieseler]

His mistake was allowing the intruder to live while waiting for the police to arrive. It's gotten to the point where you should just light the intruder up till he doesn't move anymore THEN call the police. By the time they get there you will be unarmed and safely sitting outside waiting for them to come clean up the mess. The intruder can't turn around and sue you if he's dead and the cops will have no choice but to take your side of the story as gospel. Oh and you don't risk a dumbfuck cop that's adrenalined out of his mind mistaking you for the burglar and shooting first.

Cops are not your friends. They are not there to protect you. They are not there to serve you. They are there to arrest and prosecute you.

Bingo.
I'll add one more thing here.
While you are outside safely with your family dialing 911, wake ALL of the neighbors.
They won't mind standing outside visually documenting what goes on after the fact.
People love drama.

[Deborah K]

I'm sorry if I came off sounding "haughty" in my reply to you.

But you're playing a dangerous game here by saying things like this:



I'm sure any number of Stasi, OKRANA, KGB and Shutzstaffel were decent folks with families and homes and cuddly dogs.

But they served an evil system, knowingly.

That makes them dangerous and not to be fully trusted, ever.

I am not playing a game, dangerous or otherwise. The groups of people you mention had the same mentality as the one you are espousing yourself. Hatred of an entire group. It's no different than hating an entire race, etc. imo. I think that we should get the cops on OUR side. And the military too. We all know people in the military or police force, or we know people related to them. We should be recruiting the ones we can, not considering ALL of them the enemy. Sorry but that's my opinion about this.

[Anti Federalist]

I am not playing a game, dangerous or otherwise. The groups of people you mention had the same mentality as the one you are espousing yourself. Hatred of an entire group. It's no different than hating an entire race, etc. imo. I think that we should get the cops on OUR side. And the military too. We all know people in the military or police force, or we know people related to them. We should be recruiting the ones we can, not considering ALL of them the enemy. Sorry but that's my opinion about this.

I disagree.

It is not at all like sexual orientation or race, which you are born with and have no choice over.

You choose to serve an evil state when you put the badge on every morning, period.

You want my trust or respect?

Quit.

I'm not harping on this to blow my own horn, but I did it, I turned down a very lucrative position with government based on no other reason than my principles that would not allow me to rest easy, taking a government paycheck every month.

It caused a great deal of financial hardship at the time, but I'm glad I never caved in.

[Baptist]

I am not playing a game, dangerous or otherwise. The groups of people you mention had the same mentality as the one you are espousing yourself. Hatred of an entire group. It's no different than hating an entire race, etc. imo. I think that we should get the cops on OUR side. And the military too. We all know people in the military or police force, or we know people related to them. We should be recruiting the ones we can, not considering ALL of them the enemy. Sorry but that's my opinion about this.


I had this attitude up until 9 months ago. Then I watched ex drug cop Barry Cooper on the Alex Jones show (excellent interview!! http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TheAlexJonesChannel&view=videos&query=barry+cooper). Between Barry explaining what cops do, and hearing officer Jack McLamb explain that the Phoenix police department tried to get him killed after he started to question/disobey unconstitutional orders....... THERE CAN'T BE ANY GOOD COPS. You can't be a good cop and still be on the force.

Somebody on these forums made a statement one time that was excellent: "if there were ANY good cops, then there wouldn't be any bad cops." In other words, if there were good cops, they would arrest/weed out the bad cops. And it's true, too.

Go to YouTube and type in "Pittsburgh G20," "dnc protest," or "rnc protest." Have fun watching hundreds of videos of thousands of police violating our rights while they beat the crap out of innocent people. In not one video will you see a single police officer objecting to orders or standing up to his fellow officers.

Go to YouTube and type in "police brutality." As you sit there with boiling blood, ask yourself why there is not ONE SINGLE VIDEO ANYWHERE of a cop standing up to or stopping another cop who is tazing the crap out of somebody, beating the crap out of somebody, violating somebody's rights, or shooting handcuffed men in the back as they lay face down on the ground. I have yet to see one single video of a cop standing up to his out of control, thuggish brothers. They are a brotherhood. They do not care about us, our well being, and they sure as heck do not care about the Constitution.

When I first came to this realization I wasn't happy with it. I do not like the fact that there are no good cops in this country. I do not like hearing myself say it. But the fact of the matter is that there are no good cops in America. I do not trust any cop, and I will never call a cop for ANY reason, period.

[Anti Federalist]

"if there were ANY good cops, then there wouldn't be any bad cops."

That was Phill4Paul's line and an excellent one at that.

I pinched it for my sig line for a while.

The exact quote, IIRC, was: "There are no good cops - there would be no bad cops".

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

I disagree.

It is not at all like sexual orientation or race, which you are born with and have no choice over.

You choose to serve an evil state when you put the badge on every morning, period.

You want my trust or respect?

Quit.

I'm not harping on this to blow my own horn, but I did it, I turned down a very lucrative position with government based on no other reason than my principles that would not allow me to rest easy, taking a government paycheck every month.

It caused a great deal of financial hardship at the time, but I'm glad I never caved in.

I understand your position, but with all respect. You are blowing your own horn. You've allowed your personal victory to cloud your wisdom. :o Don't cheapen what you did by holding people up to the same standard.

[Anti Federalist]

I understand your position, but with all respect. You are blowing your own horn. You've allowed your personal victory to cloud your wisdom. :o Don't cheapen what you did by holding people up to the same standard.

Let us never speak of it again.;)

[Baptist]

I understand your position, but with all respect. You are blowing your own horn. You've allowed your personal victory to cloud your wisdom. :o Don't cheapen what you did by holding people up to the same standard.


ForLibertyRonPaul,
I have no respect for any law enforcement in this country. If you find me one single video of a cop stopping another cop from screwing us over, then I will rethink my position on the matter. I'm not talking about Internal Affairs or the FBI bringing down corrupt cops. Those cases usually arise because the local populace has raised hell about corrupt cops for so long, that something finally gets done.

Find me a single video of a cop stopping another cop in the act of corruption. I want to see a video of a cop tackling another cop who is beating the crap out of a handcuffed prisoner. I want to see a video of a cop arresting a fellow cop who is either: tazering old women, slamming old grandmas to the ground in Walmart's parking lot, molesting women while on drug raids in Philadelphia, shooting handcuffed men in the back in San Fransisco, or violating our rights at these protests.

I want to see the video or hear the audio tape of a police officer who stands up to his fellow officers as they drag an innocent man they just shot through gravel before they paraded him around the neighborhood on the hood of their car.

If I see one such video, I will rethink my position. Until then, I do not have respect for any cops.

[Dieseler]

Anybody still paying taxes has no horn to blow on this side topic discussion.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[YumYum]

ForLibertyRonPaul,
I have no respect for any law enforcement in this country. If you find me one single video of a cop stopping another cop from screwing us over, then I will rethink my position on the matter. I'm not talking about Internal Affairs or the FBI bringing down corrupt cops. Those cases usually arise because the local populace has raised hell about corrupt cops for so long, that something finally gets done.

Find me a single video of a cop stopping another cop in the act of corruption. I want to see a video of a cop tackling another cop who is beating the crap out of a handcuffed prisoner. I want to see a video of a cop arresting a fellow cop who is either: tazering old women, slamming old grandmas to the ground in Walmart's parking lot, molesting women while on drug raids in Philadelphia, shooting handcuffed men in the back in San Fransisco, or violating our rights at these protests.

I want to see the video or hear the audio tape of a police officer who stands up to his fellow officers as they drag an innocent man they just shot through gravel before they paraded him around the neighborhood on the hood of their car.

If I see one such video, I will rethink my position. Until then, I do not have respect for any cops.

My uncle is a deputy sheriff in L.A. He has a crimminal mind and breaks the law at will. He respects no one.

[Baptist]

Anybody still paying taxes has no horn to blow on this side topic discussion.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The fact that I pay taxes even though I'm aware of all the evil that is done with them makes me a coward who isn't man enough to follow his convictions. That does not excuse the behavior of police officers who are "just doing their jobs." The fact that I or anyone else sucks does not nullify the behavior of thug law enforcement-- it just means that I suck too. Two wrongs don't make a right.

There are no good cops, and I'm a coward. So yes, by being honest and taking this position I can remain consistent while I blow on my horn.

[Dieseler]

The fact that I pay taxes even though I'm aware of all the evil that is done with them makes me a coward who isn't man enough to follow his convictions. That does not excuse the behavior of police officers who are "just doing their jobs." The fact that I or anyone else sucks does not nullify the behavior of thug law enforcement-- it just means that I suck too. Two wrongs don't make a right.

There are no good cops, and I'm a coward. So yes, by being honest and taking this position I can remain consistent while I blow on my horn.

I didn't say you suck man.
I was just making an observation.

[ClayTrainor]

This story pisses me off to epic proportions! :mad:

So sick, so sad, so wrong.


There are no good cops, and I'm a coward. So yes, by being honest and taking this position I can remain consistent while I blow on my horn.

Much respect for holding that position. I too am a coward. I admit that the only reason i pay my taxes is because i fear the uniformed men with guns, coming to take me away.

[Baptist]

I didn't say you suck man.
I was just making an observation.

I didn't think you did. I was just coming out with that position (even if playing Devil's advocate because I'm still contemplating/researching my position on taxes) to make the point that you can say that all cops suck, even though you yourself suck as well.

My brother made the exact same point as you the last time I talked to him. He defended the cops and said "yeah, well by being a student at that university you are helping play into all the evils that they will do or that will come out of it. None of us do the right thing all the time." It wasn't until a week later that the thought occurred to me.... "yeah, I do suck. But that does not excuse the cop's behavior. They suck too."


I think that in text I come off as too argumentative and combative. When making these points face to face I do not.

[Dieseler]

I didn't think you did. I was just coming out with that position (even if playing Devil's advocate because I'm still contemplating/researching my position on taxes) to make the point that you can say that all cops suck, even though you yourself suck as well.

My brother made the exact same point as you the last time I talked to him. He defended the cops and said "yeah, well by being a student at that university you are helping play into all the evils that they will do or that will come out of it. None of us do the right thing all the time." It wasn't until a week later that the thought occurred to me.... "yeah, I do suck. But that does not excuse the cop's behavior. They suck too."


I think that in text I come off as too argumentative and combative. When making these points face to face I do not.

Its all good.
I pay taxes to.

[Sandman33]

To serve and protect......

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

ForLibertyRonPaul,
I have no respect for any law enforcement in this country. If you find me one single video of a cop stopping another cop from screwing us over, then I will rethink my position on the matter. I'm not talking about Internal Affairs or the FBI bringing down corrupt cops. Those cases usually arise because the local populace has raised hell about corrupt cops for so long, that something finally gets done.

Find me a single video of a cop stopping another cop in the act of corruption. I want to see a video of a cop tackling another cop who is beating the crap out of a handcuffed prisoner. I want to see a video of a cop arresting a fellow cop who is either: tazering old women, slamming old grandmas to the ground in Walmart's parking lot, molesting women while on drug raids in Philadelphia, shooting handcuffed men in the back in San Fransisco, or violating our rights at these protests.

I want to see the video or hear the audio tape of a police officer who stands up to his fellow officers as they drag an innocent man they just shot through gravel before they paraded him around the neighborhood on the hood of their car.

If I see one such video, I will rethink my position. Until then, I do not have respect for any cops.

well i guess that is your problem. I sincerely hope you rethink your position before you see a video.

[phill4paul]

That was Phill4Paul's line and an excellent one at that.

I pinched it for my sig line for a while.

The exact quote, IIRC, was: "There are no good cops - there would be no bad cops".


I stand by that quote to this day.
I was speaking w/ a lawyer friend of mine the other day. She told me to be careful while driving around town and make sure all my plates/inspection/papers are in order. A police officer had told her that word had come from state level for all municipalities to set up checkpoints to generate revenue. By having more roadblocks the police could save on fuel cost while raising revenue.
This is where we stand. They no longer protect and serve, but are considered revenue generators.

[devil21]

Bingo.
I'll add one more thing here.
While you are outside safely with your family dialing 911, wake ALL of the neighbors.
They won't mind standing outside visually documenting what goes on after the fact.
People love drama.

I doubt the emptying of a Glock 19 magazine into an intruder at 3am wouldnt wake your neighbors ;) ...but your additional advice is well taken.

If checkpoints become obviously more common that will be a GOOD thing to those of us trying to wake people up. The first time someone runs into a checkpoint in broad daylight it will be a rude awakening. But but but...aren't checkpoints just for drunk drivers???

[Anti Federalist]

I stand by that quote to this day.
I was speaking w/ a lawyer friend of mine the other day. She told me to be careful while driving around town and make sure all my plates/inspection/papers are in order. A police officer had told her that word had come from state level for all municipalities to set up checkpoints to generate revenue. By having more roadblocks the police could save on fuel cost while raising revenue.
This is where we stand. They no longer protect and serve, but are considered revenue generators.

So do I, true meaning in that quote.

Roadblocks for everything, of course.

Somebody post that iphone app that shows roadblocks...:mad:

[Deborah K]

I disagree.

It is not at all like sexual orientation or race, which you are born with and have no choice over.

You choose to serve an evil state when you put the badge on every morning, period.

You want my trust or respect?

Quit.

I'm not harping on this to blow my own horn, but I did it, I turned down a very lucrative position with government based on no other reason than my principles that would not allow me to rest easy, taking a government paycheck every month.

It caused a great deal of financial hardship at the time, but I'm glad I never caved in.

AF, I patrol side by side with retired and ex-military and police at the border as a minuteman. In fact, much of our organization is made up of ex-military and police. They love their country and are trying to protect it. A lot of whom are Ron Paul supporters. Now we are on the watch list with DHS for being potential homegrown terrorists. http://www.splcenter.org/images/dynamic/main/The_Second_Wave.pdf This report was submitted to the DHS. Our particular facility (Camp Vigilance) is listed in the report on page 11. If you haven't seen this, you'll be amazed at how similar the Minutemen think like the Freedom Movement.

Sorry but between that and the fact that the cops in my area aren't rogue, I'm not buying into this ALL cops are the enemy thing.

[Rael]

AF, I patrol side by side with retired and ex-military and police at the border as a minuteman. In fact, much of our organization is made up of ex-military and police. They love their country and are trying to protect it. A lot of whom are Ron Paul supporters. Now we are on the watch list with DHS for being potential homegrown terrorists. http://www.splcenter.org/images/dynamic/main/The_Second_Wave.pdf This report was submitted to the DHS. Our particular facility (Camp Vigilance) is listed in the report on page 11. If you haven't seen this, you'll be amazed at how similar the Minutemen think like the Freedom Movement.

Sorry but between that and the fact that the cops in my area aren't rogue, I'm not buying into this ALL cops are the enemy thing.

How do you know you are on the watchlist?

[Liberty Rebellion]

I doubt the emptying of a Glock 19 magazine into an intruder at 3am wouldnt wake your neighbors ;) ...but your additional advice is well taken.

If checkpoints become obviously more common that will be a GOOD thing to those of us trying to wake people up. The first time someone runs into a checkpoint in broad daylight it will be a rude awakening. But but but...aren't checkpoints just for drunk drivers???

The county I live in did a 4pm-10pm no-refusal (meaning your blood is drawn if you fail field sobriety test & if you refuse the get a warrant on the spot) checkpoint last weekend. COMPLETE waste of money, but I'm sure it came from the Feds:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/st-louis-crime-beat/2009/09/30/st-charles-county-dwi-checkpoint-results-in-eight-arrests/

They're doing another one this weekend, but it's a check-point where you can refuse apparently.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/chas-beat/police/2009/10/another-weekend-dwi-checkpoint-planned-in-st-charles-county/

[Deborah K]

How do you know you are on the watchlist?

No facts. Haven't bothered to contact DHS. I'm assuming we are since we are listed in that report and it was accepted by the DHS. It's not a stretch to deduce that.

[phill4paul]

So do I, true meaning in that quote.

Roadblocks for everything, of course.

Somebody post that iphone app that shows roadblocks...:mad:

ROFLMAO....No sooner than it's mentioned it is needed.
While working today I got the privilege of going through a check. It was in the afternoon @ 1pm on a two lane one way. They had two cars pulled over to the side already when I approached. Funny thing is they just waved any work related vehicles through.
What a complete crock of shit. They weren't looking for D.U.I. , they weren't looking for an escaped convict nor a robbery suspect. They were merely generating revenue.
I do remember when I lived in Virginia that in Charlottesville the locations of check points had to be published in advance in the local paper. I'm gonna have to check on N.C. law and township laws.

[phill4paul]

The county I live in did a 4pm-10pm no-refusal (meaning your blood is drawn if you fail field sobriety test & if you refuse the get a warrant on the spot) checkpoint last weekend. COMPLETE waste of money, but I'm sure it came from the Feds:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/st-louis-crime-beat/2009/09/30/st-charles-county-dwi-checkpoint-results-in-eight-arrests/

They're doing another one this weekend, but it's a check-point where you can refuse apparently.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/chas-beat/police/2009/10/another-weekend-dwi-checkpoint-planned-in-st-charles-county/

And there is the proverbial line...no way, no how...are they gonna take my blood. I don't care which court authorized it I will defend my 5th amendment right.
For willful refusal they are free to suspend my driving "privilege" for whatever amount of time they see fit, even indefinitely, however if they try to force blood from my body there will be a fight.

[Freedom 4 all]

I'm not harping on this to blow my own horn, but I did it, I turned down a very lucrative position with government based on no other reason than my principles that would not allow me to rest easy, taking a government paycheck every month.

It caused a great deal of financial hardship at the time, but I'm glad I never caved in.

I can't even put to words how much I respect that. There are not a lot of people who have the balls to refuse to compromise their values like that, but if there were, the problems we have would essentially be solved. If people who are essentially good would stop working for evil organizations, the organization would either have to stop being corrupt or die.

[Freedom 4 all]

ForLibertyRonPaul,
I have no respect for any law enforcement in this country. If you find me one single video of a cop stopping another cop from screwing us over, then I will rethink my position on the matter. I'm not talking about Internal Affairs or the FBI bringing down corrupt cops. Those cases usually arise because the local populace has raised hell about corrupt cops for so long, that something finally gets done.

Find me a single video of a cop stopping another cop in the act of corruption. I want to see a video of a cop tackling another cop who is beating the crap out of a handcuffed prisoner. I want to see a video of a cop arresting a fellow cop who is either: tazering old women, slamming old grandmas to the ground in Walmart's parking lot, molesting women while on drug raids in Philadelphia, shooting handcuffed men in the back in San Fransisco, or violating our rights at these protests.

I want to see the video or hear the audio tape of a police officer who stands up to his fellow officers as they drag an innocent man they just shot through gravel before they paraded him around the neighborhood on the hood of their car.

If I see one such video, I will rethink my position. Until then, I do not have respect for any cops.

Well put. Respect is earned, not demanded. Fear and respect are NOT the same thing. Police who follow conscience rather than orders or brotherhood have my absolute 100% respect and are the greatest heros of all. I'd like to see meet one, kind of in the same way as I'd like to see a live unicorn or pheonix.

[devil21]

The county I live in did a 4pm-10pm no-refusal (meaning your blood is drawn if you fail field sobriety test & if you refuse the get a warrant on the spot) checkpoint last weekend. COMPLETE waste of money, but I'm sure it came from the Feds:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/st-louis-crime-beat/2009/09/30/st-charles-county-dwi-checkpoint-results-in-eight-arrests/

They're doing another one this weekend, but it's a check-point where you can refuse apparently.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/chas-beat/police/2009/10/another-weekend-dwi-checkpoint-planned-in-st-charles-county/

And that's the thing. That actually was NOT a DWI checkpoint. That was just the cover story for it since any other official reason violates the US Constitution, according to the Supreme Court. They know they're not getting many DWI's cruising around at 5pm (except maybe in the vicinity of an NFL game or something) so the real reason is to generate revenue for minor violations, initate searches, criminalize everyone possible, and just generally intimidate the residents.

I pray these daylight checkpoints spread and start getting the "But they're for drunk drivers in the middle of the night so they're ok! Just don't go out late and you'll be fine! Nothing good happens at 3am anyway!" crowd caught up. Papers please!

[phill4paul]

And that's the thing. That actually was NOT a DWI checkpoint. That was just the cover story for it since any other official reason violates the US Constitution, according to the Supreme Court. They know they're not getting many DWI's cruising around at 5pm (except maybe in the vicinity of an NFL game or something) so the real reason is to generate revenue for minor violations, initate searches, criminalize everyone possible, and just generally intimidate the residents.

I pray these daylight checkpoints spread and start getting the "But they're for drunk drivers so they're ok!" crowd caught up. Papers please!

Quite so. The net D.U.I. in the above example is around .4% of the stops.
Figure in 2k worth of over time from the state( ovetime meaning on top of salary) and it's a no-brainer.
Cops do not protect and serve, they generate revenue.

In fact, borrowing from traditional slang that is what I am going to refer to them from now on.

"What can I do for you mister Revenoor?"

[SimpleName]

I don't agree with this. The cops in my area are okay. Our experiences with them have been good ones. NOT saying we haven't had a few run-ins with them in the past. But that wasn't around here. They seem friendly and helpful around here. Which will be good when shtf.

I don't think it's a good idea for people to be encouraging a negative attitude toward ALL cops.

Me either. While I agree with the general consensus here that police officers are mostly corrupt power hungry sh*theads, I don't like the outright hatred toward the cops. I don't travel around asking people about their experiences, but I have never heard anything remotely this terrible with the police around here. Granted the cops are trained to be conniving and careless toward citizens, many uphold some honor and actually try to help people. They are simply doing their jobs.

Reminds me of why I stopped bothering to listen to Alex Jones. He tries to make police officers look like belligerent meatheads with no cares in the world. Lets not forget the zillions of times we have gone away with a warning and a "stay safe" at an officer's discretion. That said, I never trust the police and never will.

[Deborah K]

As to checkpoints. Here's Ron Paul's prediction. And AFTF was done years ago:

YouTube - America: From Freedom to Fascism (part 8 of 11) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H-poV8YvdQ&feature=PlayList&p=4F3D73D7EFCF5190&index=7)

[qh4dotcom]

Don't forget who the boss of these cops is, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

[phill4paul]

As to checkpoints. Here's Ron Paul's prediction. And AFTF was done years ago:

YouTube - America: From Freedom to Fascism (part 8 of 11) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H-poV8YvdQ&feature=PlayList&p=4F3D73D7EFCF5190&index=7)

The line....... No I will not surrender my weapons. Be it in a disaster situation or any other reason. The line is gonna be drawn by a patriot soon. Hopefully, patriots have awakened to the fact that when a siege of a patriot is underway it is time to MOVE. As in to that patriots spot.
It does not matter if that patriot is portrayed as a molester of children, a terrorists or any other reason.
There will be a time in the near future where patriots are gonna have to take a stand.
How many now look back on the federal governments actions at Waco or Ruby Ridge and say that was just not right.
The government has played the terrorist card more often than not lately. Soon there will be another domestic terrorist false flag.

[devil21]

Don't forget who the boss of these cops is, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

That guy frustrates me. One minute I hate him, the next minute I love him. :confused:

He puts up illegal checkpoints. But he also actively arrests illegal aliens to the point that DHS has specifically told him to STOP it.

I wonder if the checkpoint was for that purpose actually? Ugh.

[Reason]

YouTube - Cops Conspire To Cover Up Shooting Of Homeowner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4ioL3B7qnU)

[Deborah K]

Don't forget who the boss of these cops is, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

The Sheriff is in charge of police? I thought the Chief of Police was in charge of the police. :confused:

[TruckinMike]

^^^That +1776

I can't stress that enough, you bring a bunch of trigger happy cops into a "hot" situation, and you or your family stand a good chance of being the ones who end up dead.

Do not call the cops, do not talk to the cops; they are not your friends, they are not there to help.

If you haven't already, watch this!!

YouTube - Dont Talk to Police


Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. NEVER talk to the police.

TMike

[phill4paul]

Thanks for that update CivilRadient.

[Anti Federalist]

//