Will California become America's first failed state?

[bobbyw24]

Will California become America's first failed state?

Los Angeles, 2009: California may be the eighth largest economy in the world, but its state staff are being paid in IOUs, unemployment is at its highest in 70 years, and teachers are on hunger strike. So what has gone so catastrophically wrong?


California has a special place in the American psyche. It is the Golden State: a playground of the rich and famous with perfect weather. It symbolises a lifestyle of sunshine, swimming pools and the Hollywood dream factory.

But the state that was once held up as the epitome of the boundless opportunities of America has collapsed. From its politics to its economy to its environment and way of life, California is like a patient on life support. At the start of summer the state government was so deeply in debt that it began to issue IOUs instead of wages. Its unemployment rate has soared to more than 12%, the highest figure in 70 years. Desperate to pay off a crippling budget deficit, California is slashing spending in education and healthcare, laying off vast numbers of workers and forcing others to take unpaid leave. In a state made up of sprawling suburbs the collapse of the housing bubble has impoverished millions and kicked tens of thousands of families out of their homes. Its political system is locked in paralysis and the two-term rule of former movie star Arnold Schwarzenegger is seen as a disaster – his approval ratings having sunk to levels that would make George W Bush blush. The crisis is so deep that Professor Kenneth Starr, who has written an acclaimed history of the state, recently declared: "California is on the verge of becoming the first failed state in America."

Outside the Forum in Inglewood, near downtown Los Angeles, California has already failed. The scene is reminiscent of the fallout from Hurricane Katrina, as crowds of impoverished citizens stand or lie aimlessly on the hot tarmac of the centre's car park. It is 10am, and most have already been here for hours. They have come for free healthcare: a travelling medical and dental clinic has set up shop in the Forum (

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/04/california-failing-state-debt

[pcosmar]

Perhaps people outside the US see California as the first, but I disagree.
Michigan has been a failure for 30+ years. Other states as well, as wealth has been drained, factories closed and bureaucracies have grown to the point of breaking.

I guess the world sees California as America due to Hollywood and the media.
It is hardly the first failure.

[cheapseats]

Americans, take heed.

For good and for ill, California is a Trendsetter.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[cheapseats]

California is too big to fail.
l

IF WE CAN AGREE ON NOTHING ELSE, CAN WE AT LEAST AGREE THAT THERE IS A MARKED CORRELATION BETWEEN CALIFORNIA'S ECONOMIC DEMISE AND CALIFORNIA BEING THE STATE, FAR & AWAY, TO HOUSE/CLOTHE/FEED/EMPLOY/EDUCATE/MEDICATE AND OTHERWISE CODDLE THE GREATEST NUMBER OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants

[james1906]

Perhaps people outside the US see California as the first, but I disagree.
Michigan has been a failure for 30+ years. Other states as well, as wealth has been drained, factories closed and bureaucracies have grown to the point of breaking.

I guess the world sees California as America due to Hollywood and the media.
It is hardly the first failure.

Isn't Michigan doing alright outside of Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, etc? Would the UP form a new state with the north of the mitten?

[bobbyw24]

l

IF WE CAN AGREE ON NOTHING ELSE, CAN WE AT LEAST AGREE THAT THERE IS A MARKED CORRELATION BETWEEN CALIFORNIA'S ECONOMIC DEMISE AND CALIFORNIA BEING THE STATE, FAR & AWAY, TO HOUSE/CLOTHE/FEED/EMPLOY/EDUCATE/MEDICATE AND OTHERWISE CODDLE THE GREATEST NUMBER OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants


I see a correlation there

WHEN YOU IMPORT POVERTY YOU GET POVERTY

[cheapseats]

l

SECONDLY, THE TERMINATOR-LITERALLY WENT BERSERK OVER GREENHOUSE GASES. THE CALIFORNIA EPA LEAD THE NATION, ALRIGHT - RIGHT DOWN THE CRAPPER.

NOW THE LONG-PANTS EPA PROPOSES TO SKEDADDLE DOWN THE SAME PATH, DISREGARDING A CONGRESS THAT DISREGARDS THE PEOPLE.

NOT THAT WE HAVE ENEMIES IN THE KUM-BAY-AH NEW WORLD ORDER, BUT OUR FORMER ENEMIES ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OFF.

[james1906]

l

SECONDLY, THE TERMINATOR-LITERALLY WENT BERSERK OVER GREENHOUSE GASES. THE CALIFORNIA EPA LEAD THE NATION, ALRIGHT - RIGHT DOWN THE CRAPPER.

NOW THE LONG-PANTS EPA PROPOSES TO SKEDADDLE DOWN THE SAME PATH, DISREGARDING A CONGRESS THAT DISREGARDS THE PEOPLE.

NOT THAT WE HAVE ENEMIES IN THE KUM-BAY-AH NEW WORLD ORDER, BUT OUR FORMER ENEMIES ARE LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OFF.

Agriculture, the only stable of element of CA's economy got screwed over with the water being turned off to save a fish. If something will fail the whole state, this is it.

[pcosmar]

Isn't Michigan doing alright outside of Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, etc? Would the UP form a new state with the north of the mitten?

No, folks here are survivors. The UP has been described as a "depressed' economy as far back as I can remember. The welfare mentality has been rampant here as well.
There have been a couple of small movements to become a separate state over the years, but they have never caught on well. Too many would lose the Nanny State checks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_%28proposed_U.S._state%29
http://www.copperconnection.com/bmz_cache/7/7250a4432eecb3a25bc94623b75af5e9.image.260x260.jpg

[cheapseats]

Agriculture, the only stable of element of CA's economy got screwed over with the water being turned off to save a fish. If something will fail the whole state, this is it.


Water. Perhaps Survival's Number One bugaboo . . . and no outcry for desalinization plants. Por que? The Malibu Syndrome, that's por que.

As best as I can tell, the Sierra Club is a Public Enemy. I'd like a gander at THEIR financials. Also the itinerary of their last 20 or 50 policy-making-slash-fund-raising get-togethers. I'd like to know what THEIR Top Banana earns.

Environmentalist WHACKOS and POWER MAD Public Officials would literally starve people to spare a species of bug. The PETS of Elite live better than American Rank & File.

I have done a lotta lotta driving up and down the West Coast. Those fields are STILL filled with Hispanics. We have unemployed GALORE. Invite them to build tent cities and work crops. Maybe feed 'em once a day, as a gesture.

All that roadwork that wasn't done with tax money that was already collected and spent? The roadwork that is generating beaucoup bucks from double-price fines and wreaking havoc with traffic that was already congested-unto-gridlock? I'd be interested to know the racial breakdown of THOSE new hires.

[YumYum]

l

IF WE CAN AGREE ON NOTHING ELSE, CAN WE AT LEAST AGREE THAT THERE IS A MARKED CORRELATION BETWEEN CALIFORNIA'S ECONOMIC DEMISE AND CALIFORNIA BEING THE STATE, FAR & AWAY, TO HOUSE/CLOTHE/FEED/EMPLOY/EDUCATE/MEDICATE AND OTHERWISE CODDLE THE GREATEST NUMBER OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants

This is partially true. California had many clinics that were privately funded that helped illegal aliens for free or for very little money, but they closed their doors, thus putting a bigger burden on the state. But there is even a bigger problem, which is the reason that the state is going under, and you won't hear about it on the news. I have a neighbor in MO who has a son that works in the Governor's office. The problem he said is not with the illegals, but the legal Hispanics who work for the state. While the Federal government puts African- Americans at the top of the list for Affirmative Action, where Federal jobs are concerned, California’s "affirmative action" favors Hispanics. Many of them have been stealing the state blind. In fact, one Hispanic woman who handles the Social Security checks was busted for continuing payments on dead people by having them directly deposited into her account. They found her with over a million dollars. He told me this was nothing, that the stealing was epidemic. Schwarzenegger had a state audit done and the results were frightening. They had uncovered hundreds of Hispanics in a theft ring that were stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from California. Arnold was going to fire them all, but he backed off because they threatened him with a class action suit for discrimination. He backed down, with his hands tied. My neighbor's son didn't know why he didn't follow through, the case was pretty clear cut, and the stealing is continuing to this day. I heard this first person, and I realized the Mexicans cry "We may have lost the war, but we will win the battle" has come true.

California will be the first state that the Federal government will secede from.

[cheapseats]

l

IF WE CAN AGREE ON NOTHING ELSE, CAN WE AT LEAST AGREE THAT THERE IS A MARKED CORRELATION BETWEEN CALIFORNIA'S ECONOMIC DEMISE AND CALIFORNIA BEING THE STATE, FAR & AWAY, TO HOUSE/CLOTHE/FEED/EMPLOY/EDUCATE/MEDICATE AND OTHERWISE CODDLE THE GREATEST NUMBER OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants



This is partially true. California had many clinics that were privately funded that helped illegal aliens for free or for very little money, but they closed their doors, thus putting a bigger burden on the state. But there is even a bigger problem, which is the reason that the state is going under, and you won't hear about it on the news. I have a neighbor in MO who has a son that works in the Governor's office. The problem he said is not with the illegals, but the legal Hispanics who work for the state. While the Federal government puts African- Americans at the top of the list for Affirmative Action, where Federal jobs are concerned, California’s "affirmative action" favors Hispanics. Many of them have been stealing the state blind. In fact, one Hispanic woman who handles the Social Security checks was busted for continuing payments on dead people by having them directly deposited into her account. They found her with over a million dollars. He told me this was nothing, that the stealing was epidemic. Schwarzenegger had a state audit done and the results were frightening. They had uncovered hundreds of Hispanics in a theft ring that were stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from California. Arnold was going to fire them all, but he backed off because they threatened him with a class action suit for discrimination. He backed down, with his hands tied. My neighbor's son didn't know why he didn't follow through, the case was pretty clear cut, and the stealing is continuing to this day. I heard this first person, and I realized the Mexicans cry "We may have lost the war, but we will win the battle" has come true.

California will be the first state that the Federal government will secede from.

I am in agreement, and have ire-raising stories GALORE.




I see a correlation there

WHEN YOU IMPORT POVERTY YOU GET POVERTY

"Fresh" illegals live with former illegals who, via amnesty AFTER beaucoup perks, are sitting pretty. One particular tale of a housekeeper-turned-apartment-building-owner, all courtesy of the government's coerced compassion, is not uncommon.

They are very family-oriented. They bunk up. Saves 'em money. Affords an address. Make no mistake, Hispanics particularly Mexicans are WORKIN' THE SYSTEM.

[specsaregood]

If californians stop paying their federal taxes and the state gets it instead, away goes that budget deficit. (Big Donor state) I'm moderately surprised there haven't been many/any californians taking about this publicly.

[Andrew-Austin]

If californians stop paying their federal taxes and the state gets it instead, away goes that budget deficit. (Big Donor state) I'm moderately surprised there haven't been many/any californians taking about this publicly.

Because Californians are liberals and liberals love the Federal government. Such talk would lead to secession.

[catdd]

If californians stop paying their federal taxes and the state gets it instead, away goes that budget deficit. (Big Donor state) I'm moderately surprised there haven't been many/any californians taking about this publicly.


If all the states did that a vast array of problems would disappear. Yet nothing would bring on the wrath of the Feds faster.

[YumYum]

I am in agreement, and have ire-raising stories GALORE.

I would be interested in hearing them, as I am sure most everyone on this board would also.







"Fresh" illegals live with former illegals who, via amnesty AFTER beaucoup perks, are sitting pretty. One particular tale of a housekeeper-turned-apartment-building-owner, all courtesy of the government's coerced compassion, is not uncommon.
They are very family-oriented. They bunk up. Saves 'em money. Affords an address. Make no mistake, Hispanics particularly Mexicans are WORKIN' THE SYSTEM.

Another loophole that illegals do to get around the system is that they get a Federal Tax I.D. number. ANYBODY can get a Federal Tax I.D., establish credit, borrow money, get minority business loans and grants, and become a part of the system. I just did a major report on Mexico last semester, and the problem with illegals coming here is going to grow even bigger with a downturn in our economy. The reason is that their economy is dependant on ours, and they are having very serious problems. Picture this. We have already seen the illegals take the highly-skilled contruction jobs. The next wave will be professionals working here illegally: doctors, nurses, engineers, technicians, advertising experts and even lawyers! They are going after everybodies jobs, and companies that are experiencing hardships will will hire them because they will work for cheap. Who wouldn't hire an excellent attorney for legal advice at $10 an hour?

[Dieseler]

California should use its Southern border before it gets erased.

Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'

Keep movin', movin', movin',
Though they're disapprovin',
Keep them Illegals movin' Rawhide!
Don't try to understand 'em,
Just rope and throw n' deport 'em,
Soon we'll be living high and wide once again.
Boy my heart's calculatin'
My true love will be waitin', be waiting at the end of my ride.

Move 'em on, head 'em up,
Head 'em up, move 'em out,
Move 'em on, head 'em out Rawhide!
Set 'em out, ride 'em in
Ride 'em in, let 'em out,
Hunt 'em down, run 'em out Rawhide.

Full Lyrics

Rollin', rollin', rollin'
Rollin', rollin', rollin'
Rollin', rollin', rollin'
Rollin', rollin', rollin'
Rawhide!
Rawhide!

[Rael]

Another loophole that illegals do to get around the system is that they get a Federal Tax I.D. number. ANYBODY can get a Federal Tax I.D., establish credit, borrow money, get minority business loans and grants, and become a part of the system.

How do they do that? Could someone here legally do the same thing if they have bad credit, just get a tax id and use instead of a SS#?Or could you use it in a way to enhance privacy?

[YumYum]

How do they do that? Could someone here legally do the same thing if they have bad credit, just get a tax id and use instead of a SS#?Or could you use it in a way to enhance privacy?

All you have to do is fill out the Federal tax I.D. form. Unlike Social Security, the government doesn't do any background checks. The Fed tax I.D. is for the purpose of businesses to pay taxes on goods sold. Many people who have horrible credit have done this to start over. I know a guy who was a builder and had really bad credit, and also had a warrant for his arrest. So he got a new Federal tax I.D. number, under a ficticous name, got a new contractor's licence, built his credit, got loans from the bank, and made a bundle during the housing bubble. Mexicans didn't invent this loophole, it has been available for sometime; they just discovered it. I know a Mexican who is illegal, and owns a video store, using the Fed I.D. tax number.

[Dieseler]

All you have to do is fill out the Federal tax I.D. form. Unlike Social Security, the government doesn't do any background checks. The Fed tax I.D. is for the purpose of businesses to pay taxes on goods sold. Many people who have horrible credit have done this to start over. I know a guy who was a builder and had really bad credit, and also had a warrant for his arrest. So he got a new Federal tax I.D. number, under a ficticous name, got a new contractor's licence, built his credit, got loans from the bank, and made a bundle during the housing bubble. Mexicans didn't invent this loophole, it has been available for sometime; they just discovered it. I know a Mexican who is illegal, and owns a video store, using the Fed I.D. tax number.

Definitely not a new idea as I remember hearing about people doing this back in the early 80's.

[Dieseler]

It's coming back to me now...
I seem to remember someone discussing this method in order to buy goods for resale at wholesale (untaxed) under the premise of paying the tax themselves.
I think a lot of businesses do this.
How else would one keep their business taxes separate from their personal taxes?