What would it take for the second American Revolutionary War?

[OptionsTrader]

One could argue that the American Revolutionary War was fought with less pretext for revolution than could be argued for revolution right now.

Hypothetically, what would it take in addition to what has occurred and is occurring? Martial law / military dictatorship? Nuking another country? Internment camps? Other?

[ItsTime]

we are in it now, welcome to the party. Not all Revolutions are violent

[Givemelibertyor.....]

Cut off the cable. Government regulation of booze and tobacco.

It's hard to say. Look how far we've fallen, and the sheep are still sheep.

[Corydoras]

The docility has been happening all over the world. I think Michel Foucault, who was neither American nor conservative, remarked that nowdays if there was a revolt, the population would never run toward the Bastille to free the prisoners, because they have been inculcated to believe that the prisoners are "other" and "them," not "us."

[Tina]

sigh... so true

[OptionsTrader]

You'll have to forgive me.

I am watching 300 on DVD (http://www.amazon.com/300-Widescreen-Gerard-Butler/dp/B000QXDED6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-2060410-7500459?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1191199175&sr=1-2) for the umpteenth time and want to put on a Spartan helmet, Spartan shield, grab a spear and follow Leonidas into battle with 300 spirited freedom loving soldiers.

[Man from La Mancha]

The brainwashing is very skilfully implemented and fine tuned over the last 80 years, I thought nothing could break it till I saw Ron Paul. So that alone should be enough to spread the message of Ron. Once the sheeple have been woken only death will put them back to sleep.:D

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[RedRider]

A very good question. I'm skeptical of a non-violent revolution achieving much. I think that things would have to get bad for the population to even begin to think of overthrowing the government. Life is just too 'good' for most people, even though all of our wealth is based on a worthless currency. I'd say the best chance we have right now is a crash of the dollar. So far, the Fed has been doing all it can to stave off the inevitable, but sooner or later consumer confidence is going to fall through the floor... hopefully it's sooner.

[Corydoras]

I'm skeptical of a non-violent revolution achieving much. I think that things would have to get bad for the population to even begin to think of overthrowing the government. Life is just too 'good' for most people, even though all of our wealth is based on a worthless currency. I'd say the best chance we have right now is a crash of the dollar.


Non-violent revolutions worked well in Hungary, Mongolia, and the Republic of Georgia... but on the other hand, those populations were materially quite poor compared to America, even Hungary, and so were more motivated to revolt.

I agree, the dollar has to crash so badly that people at home notice, not just the ones who travel abroad. When China cuts off credit, when oil is traded in Euros, etc.

[murrayrothbard]

No state lasts forever. The US has already passed its apex and will slowly but surely deteriorate. I have no doubt that the US government will become increasingly violent and repressive as it begins to slide. The question is what comes after the fall? Freedom or more of the same

[RedRider]

Freedom is what we started out with after the American Revolution. It is the apathy of the population that has led to our downfall. We have only to blame ourselves as citizens.

[Man from La Mancha]

Unfortunately, worse of the same. No time in history that an authoritarian state has the tech tools to monitor and control it's slaves. Heck they are inventing flying robot bugs to spy on or poison sting or what ever. How do you stop 10,000's of these type of things swarming one. Plus the 100's of other devices and weapons. Better succeed now with Ron.

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[murrayrothbard]

Unfortunately, worse of the same. No time in history that an authoritarian state has the tech tools to monitor and control it's slaves. Heck they are inventing flying robot bugs to spy on or poison sting or what ever. How do you stop 10,000's of these type of things swarming one. Plus the 100's of other devices and weapons. Better succeed now with Ron.

.

True, but as the State grows it will destroy more and more of the productive society that it lives off of. Once the parasite as killed the host, it too must fall. No amount of flying robots can stop that

[murrayrothbard]

Plus everything the State does, some ingenious individuals are always one step ahead. I have no doubt a flying robot counter would exist the day after the first remote stinging episode ;) The courage of the people to use it is another question all together. The state exists due only to public opinion. If the governed decide they no longer wish to be slaves then there is nothing the state can do to stop it. They'd be done

[RedRider]

Unfortunately, worse of the same. No time in history that an authoritarian state has the tech tools to monitor and control it's slaves. Heck they are inventing flying robot bugs to spy on or poison sting or what ever. How do you stop 10,000's of these type of things swarming one. Plus the 100's of other devices and weapons. Better succeed now with Ron.

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Yes, it'd be nice if he won... but realistically, how much change can you expect his presidency to produce? I'm all for him rolling back the clock on government, but this would require the cooperation of congress - and you can see just how cooperative they are nowadays.

I'd say better stock up on weapons, ammunition and hard assets!

[dircha]

One could argue that the American Revolutionary War was fought with less pretext for revolution than could be argued for revolution right now.

Hypothetically, what would it take in addition to what has occurred and is occurring? Martial law / military dictatorship? Nuking another country? Internment camps? Other?

I think the first question is, what would a successful revolution look like?

The United States is a much, much larger and more complex nation than it was during the American Revolution or even the Civil War.

Would an armed militia group storm the White House or the Capitol in a period of overwhelming disapproval of government? Would that lead to a successful revolution? I don't think so. I don't think the media would be sympathetic. I don't think the conspirators would have achieved any significant power or control over the direction of the country. And I think the military would quickly diffuse the situation and neutralize the conspirators.

A more plausible situation is a state or region attempting to secede. For example, an ideologically consolidated region at odds with the ideology of the administration in power, might instruct its citizens to stop paying federal taxes, might deny entrance of federal law enforcement officials, might refuse to enforce significant federal legislation, or might begin issuing its own currency.

The rogue state or region would have access to its own military resources, and would have popular internal support.

It is unlikely that the media or the external population would stomach any sort of violent military or police action against the rogue state.

Maybe we'll see a Western or Bible Belt state take action after President Hillary enacts her first round of initiatives.

[Zarxrax]

People won't do anything to risk their life unless they are desperate. While we are sitting here making fat salaries, driving SUVs, surfing the internet and watching tv all day, and stopping by starbucks for an expresso, I don't think there is much chance in hell for a violent revolution.

[Nathan Hale]

we are in it now, welcome to the party. Not all Revolutions are violent

None are. The "revolution" was the intellectual change of heart that led up to the American rebellion. I think that we're all misusing the concept of revolution here.

[kill the banks]

i would suggest there has never been a united states that followed it's own constitution ~ dare i say the real power has been and will continue to be the banks ... until you control your own money the freedom you are living in is an illusion & an unreal event ... kill the banks

[EvilEngineer]

we are in it now, welcome to the party. Not all Revolutions are violent

Well... they start out non-violent. But look at Burma. Peaceful protests lead by MONKS (who are more peaceful than monks, seriously). The powers that be won't let go with out a fight. The further we push with this revolution the more that they will push back, and I have no doubt in my mind that they will be the ones to throw the first punches.

[katao]

Yes, it'd be nice if he won... but realistically, how much change can you expect his presidency to produce? I'm all for him rolling back the clock on government, but this would require the cooperation of congress - and you can see just how cooperative they are nowadays.

Please see my response here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=21347

[kill the banks]

Please see my response here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=21347

good answer ... also executive order 11110 is still on the books , i believe ... President Kennedy challenged the government of money by challenging the two most successful vehicles that have ever been used to drive up debt ~ war and the creation of money by a privately-owned central bank ... ron paul could use this immediately ... kill the banks

[princessredtights]

You'll have to forgive me.

I am watching 300 on DVD (http://www.amazon.com/300-Widescreen-Gerard-Butler/dp/B000QXDED6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-2060410-7500459?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1191199175&sr=1-2) for the umpteenth time and want to put on a Spartan helmet, Spartan shield, grab a spear and follow Leonidas into battle with 300 spirited freedom loving soldiers.


I love that movie ... not only for the "message" but for the total eyecandy! ;)

[RP4ME]

dont feed the beast - taxes woudl be one way to get their attention and make them wilt - i dont think there needs to be violence - but they could start taht

[Original_Intent]

I think the draft being reinstated would do it. I think people would rather die fighting for their own liberty here than dying for some power struggle between megolomaniacs.

Now if it was a true defensive war, that would be a different matter. but a draft for invasion? I think all hell would break loose here.

[fsk]

I think the next revolution will be an economic revolt. People will start refusing to pay income taxes and switch to an alternate fair monetary system. People will start ignoring government regulations and start working off the books.

This is called "agorism", which I describe on my blog or you can look on the Internet.

For example, someone can spend a year or two learning to be a doctor without going through the hassle of years of medical school. Then, they treat people "off the books". That would be cheap and affordable medical care.

[RP4ME]

Unfortunately, worse of the same. No time in history that an authoritarian state has the tech tools to monitor and control it's slaves. Heck they are inventing flying robot bugs to spy on or poison sting or what ever. How do you stop 10,000's of these type of things swarming one. Plus the 100's of other devices and weapons. Better succeed now with Ron.

.

these are really real israelis have thm

[aravoth]

The brainwashing is very skilfully implemented and fine tuned over the last 80 years, I thought nothing could break it till I saw Ron Paul. So that alone should be enough to spread the message of Ron. Once the sheeple have been woken only death will put them back to sleep.:D

.

Sadly, my brain was one of those that was thouroghly cleansed by the neo-cons, and my own unwillingness to think for myself. For about 2 years anyway. Amazing what happens when you just sense that something isn't right, and that your thoughts are not your own. Canceling cable, and not listening to talk radio, or any music other than classic instramental was the greatest thing I have ever done.

Before I found Ron Paul, I wrote in a journal daily, started a book, read several books, including atlas shruggred (highly recomended btw), and increased my client base in my business by nearly 200%. I started going back to the Town I grew up in, wandering the same paths I did before I joined the military and my world veiw was thrown askew.

In short, I started to think, with my own thoughts again. And as that clever bumber sticker so elagently put it. "I think, Therefore, I will vote Ron Paul"

[Second_Tier_My_Ass]

I know that the question is currently talking about a peaceful revolution. The current revolution is one of new ideas, and it's fantastic. But what if it fails? In the event that Ron Paul does not get elected and we get more of the same (Hillary or Giuliani, most likely), would any of us be willing to die to fight against it?

I'm a year away from graduating college. I've got a girlfriend who I've been with for years and we see a future with one another. I've got plans and I'm eager to live my life. But I like to think that I'd be willing to give it all up for a greater cause, if need be.

Unless we had an absolutely massive amount of people, everyone would probably be shot and killed on the spot or arrested for treason. What the government doesn't understand is that we aren't against our country, just the people who run it based on bad policies and corruption.