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takadi
09-30-2007, 05:28 PM
A post on the facebook forums that I found to be very correct:

"I think Ron needs to move beyond his protest candidacy frame and actually propose "plans", as ironic as it sounds, that describe how he could realistically and safely enact his platform if elected. People like Ron, or want to like him, but are hesitant to endorse his "matter of fact" radicalism since Ron doesn't spend much time explaining the rationale of his various positions in context. He needs to counter the knee-jerk reaction to his rhetorical aesthetic and reassure people he's not a "Slash and Burn" libertarian extremist, as he's in danger of being painted. (he’s accomplished this in his various writings and in some interviews, but in general it is lacking from his oratory)

Lets Face it: People fear the implications of the enacting of his platform, because they have NO IDEA what a Ron Paul America would look like. Without a clear notion in their head, their imaginations inform their worst prejudices. People fear what they don't understand, they fear radical change, and they fear a uncertain future. Ron Paul represents all three fears to people who know of him but aren't well versed in Classical Liberal philosophy or Austrian Economics. In order for Americans to TRUST him with the country--which is the most crucial hurdle, Ron needs to explain the WHY and the HOW, not just WHAT he's for and against. No income tax? WHY not? no National ID card? WHY not? Gutting Federal agencies people have been conditioned to think are necessary? WHY, OH GOD WHY???

Making Gold and Silver legal tender? Why?!! "The Constitution" alone is not a good enough explicative foundation for an America that doesn't even know how the document has been distorted and ignored for longer than most would consider. Why is the "Freedom Philosophy" in the best interest of ALL Americans Ron? Why will Non-interventionism help keep us safe (Americans don't care if it’s the "traditional position", is it the RIGHT one and if so WHY??) How can you reassure Americans that massive deregulation, replaced with stricter property rights, will not result in massive corporate exploitation Ron? In Short, WE (his enthusiastic Supporters) all know what Ron Paul stands for, and we all believe he's right, not based on his charisma, rhetoric or debating skills, but because we've done the research!

America has not done the research--and the more popular he becomes the more Neoconservatives and Leftists will try and pre-emptively pigeon-hole his candidacy and color the electorate's perception of what it (irrationally) fears about "libertarianism". They will trot out all the distortions, misunderstandings, prejudices and caricatures of libertarianism in order to re-enforce the faulty preconceptions the public at large already has about what it stands for. To Paraphrase a recent post by a Leftist on an anti-Ron group: “Vehement anti-communism, inequality in wealth, concentration of power, selfishness, [of course] market exploitation, Corporate Greed and Racism” See how the best distortions contain at least a kernel of truth?

We cannot feed into these mis-perceptions--all effective smear campaigns simply reassure a skeptical mind what it already suspected was true. Ron understands the Orwellian cooption of language in politics--Republicans and neoconservatives have been using the language of freedom and patriotism, disingenuously, to provide cover for the corporatism and imperialism they represent. When Ron uses the same language, but really means it, most people who don't know the difference will assume he's just another one of "them", or they realize that he’s Anti-War but his other positions are “Kooky”. (Most of the well intentioned ignorance surrounding Ron is due to this problem). That’s why flowery rhetoric is not Enough.

Ron needs to clearly differentiate himself from the other Republicans who talk the SAME GAME about smaller government by showing what really separates their veiled corporatism from real free-market capitalism.

Start calling corporations who receive subsidies what they are-- "Parasites".

Start calling unaccountable mercenary groups in Iraq what they are-- "Pirates".

Start calling the Military Industrial Complex what it is and once understood to be--"War Profiteers".

Start calling Wealth Redistribution to special interest Groups what it is--"Legal Plunder".

Start calling our Fractional Reserve Banking system what it is--"Counterfeiters"

Start calling government coercion into non-aggressive private behavior what it is--"Authoritarianism"

Start calling our Entire Economy what it truly is--"Corporatist".

Explain what our Liberal Internationalist foreign policy really is--"Imperialism" (he's done this one pretty good)

Above all, Explain what these words REALLY mean, and how they are applicable in the context of the national discourse, and the factual reality.

Further explain how divorced we have become from our founding principles. DO NOT hark back to an idealized past that never existed from misplaced nostalgia. Instead, explain why our founding principles are Right, not only because they're enshrined in our founding legal documents, but because they're they BEST guarantor of Human freedom, individual rights, true justice, prosperity and the general welfare of society BAR NONE."






Please feel free to also read the rest of conversation


http://vt.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2229718737&topic=11024

OptionsTrader
09-30-2007, 05:30 PM
"Is Ron beginning to alienate new voters? "
No.

Thor
09-30-2007, 05:32 PM
Good thoughts. It is tough to get a first message out to a new ear and at the same time paint the whole picture for those who are nodding.

I think he needs to do a video series on his website going into painting the whole picture. I have been hounding the campaign to do it (I have built the interface) for months now... Many people have been asking for high quality videos on his positions. It would go a LONG way.

takadi
09-30-2007, 05:32 PM
Please read the whole thing and post a logical and respectful response if you expect one back

itsnobody
09-30-2007, 05:34 PM
I agree that Ron Paul should talk more about how he would realistically implement his ideas

max
09-30-2007, 05:35 PM
i really worry that Ron is too damn nice to tap into the anger thats out there...intellectual appeals wont win the masses...

fear based emotional appeal is what does it...TV commercials of flag draped coffins and Rudy in a dress is what needs to be done...

He needs to step up and attack Rudy head on as a demagogue...everyone is afraid of rudy but he's actually the most easy to expose

takadi
09-30-2007, 05:35 PM
Good thoughts. It is tough to get a first message out to a new ear and at the same time paint the whole picture for those who are nodding.

I think he needs to do a video series on his website going into painting the whole picture. I have hounding the campaign to do it (I have built the interface) for months now... Many people have been asking for high quality videos on his positions. It would go a LONG way.

That would be an EXCELLENT idea.

Harking back to his old interviews, even the ones in the 80's where the environment was professional and relaxed and he was allowed alot of time to explain his views, his responses were outstanding. Libertarianism in Ron's perspectives simply cannot be explained through sound bites. The idea of having videos of him personally explaining the issues would ease tensions of skeptics out there.

But it wouldn't hurt touching up a bit on his sound bites as well. It's nice to fire up the current Ron Paul supporters, but that doesn't help in the long run if we don't get new voters.

murrayrothbard
09-30-2007, 05:37 PM
Couldn't be more true. "Because the Constitution says so.." is a HORRIBLE argument. He needs to make the POSITIVE case for a free society. This is not hard to do, but is has to be done. Time for RP "fireside chats"... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=21246

takadi
09-30-2007, 05:41 PM
I can only think that either HQ is short on workers, or the workers are a little "short" if you catch my drift. Sometimes they do things I don't agree with.

And I'd just wish they would look into some requests and discussions of RP forums. There are some VERY useful and informative hints and clues that could significantly help the campaign.

alaric
09-30-2007, 05:42 PM
Please read the whole thing and post a logical and respectful response if you expect one back

the body of the message is good. its the title that rubs me the wrong way. it should be more positive, like: 'new ways for Ron Paul to attract new voters'.:cool:

murrayrothbard
09-30-2007, 05:44 PM
Ron needs to clearly differentiate himself from the other Republicans who talk the SAME GAME about smaller government by showing what really separates their veiled corporatism from real free-market capitalism.

This, I think, is the most important thing to do ASAP! "The Market", "free market", "capitalism" are such abused words today. If RP says we need "free markets" but doesn't follow that up with an explanation that what we have today is no where close to being an actual free market, he gets nowhere with people that don't know what he means. Those that do are already RP supporters! I would say that the vast majority of people out there equate free markets with the status quo.

LibertyEagle
09-30-2007, 05:44 PM
A post on the facebook forums that I found to be very correct:

"I think Ron needs to move beyond his protest candidacy frame and actually propose "plans", as ironic as it sounds, that describe how he could realistically and safely enact his platform if elected. People like Ron, or want to like him, but are hesitant to endorse his "matter of fact" radicalism since Ron doesn't spend much time explaining the rationale of his various positions in context. He needs to counter the knee-jerk reaction to his rhetorical aesthetic and reassure people he's not a "Slash and Burn" libertarian extremist, as he's in danger of being painted. (he’s accomplished this in his various writings and in some interviews, but in general it is lacking from his oratory)

Lets Face it: People fear the implications of the enacting of his platform, because they have NO IDEA what a Ron Paul America would look like. Without a clear notion in their head, their imaginations inform their worst prejudices. People fear what they don't understand, they fear radical change, and they fear a uncertain future. Ron Paul represents all three fears to people who know of him but aren't well versed in Classical Liberal philosophy or Austrian Economics. In order for Americans to TRUST him with the country--which is the most crucial hurdle, Ron needs to explain the WHY and the HOW, not just WHAT he's for and against. No income tax? WHY not? no National ID card? WHY not? Gutting Federal agencies people have been conditioned to think are necessary? WHY, OH GOD WHY???

Making Gold and Silver legal tender? Why?!! "The Constitution" alone is not a good enough explicative foundation for an America that doesn't even know how the document has been distorted and ignored for longer than most would consider. Why is the "Freedom Philosophy" in the best interest of ALL Americans Ron? Why will Non-interventionism help keep us safe (Americans don't care if it’s the "traditional position", is it the RIGHT one and if so WHY??) How can you reassure Americans that massive deregulation, replaced with stricter property rights, will not result in massive corporate exploitation Ron? In Short, WE (his enthusiastic Supporters) all know what Ron Paul stands for, and we all believe he's right, not based on his charisma, rhetoric or debating skills, but because we've done the research!

America has not done the research--and the more popular he becomes the more Neoconservatives and Leftists will try and pre-emptively pigeon-hole his candidacy and color the electorate's perception of what it (irrationally) fears about "libertarianism". They will trot out all the distortions, misunderstandings, prejudices and caricatures of libertarianism in order to re-enforce the faulty preconceptions the public at large already has about what it stands for. To Paraphrase a recent post by a Leftist on an anti-Ron group: “Vehement anti-communism, inequality in wealth, concentration of power, selfishness, [of course] market exploitation, Corporate Greed and Racism” See how the best distortions contain at least a kernel of truth?

We cannot feed into these mis-perceptions--all effective smear campaigns simply reassure a skeptical mind what it already suspected was true. Ron understands the Orwellian cooption of language in politics--Republicans and neoconservatives have been using the language of freedom and patriotism, disingenuously, to provide cover for the corporatism and imperialism they represent. When Ron uses the same language, but really means it, most people who don't know the difference will assume he's just another one of "them", or they realize that he’s Anti-War but his other positions are “Kooky”. (Most of the well intentioned ignorance surrounding Ron is due to this problem). That’s why flowery rhetoric is not Enough.

Ron needs to clearly differentiate himself from the other Republicans who talk the SAME GAME about smaller government by showing what really separates their veiled corporatism from real free-market capitalism.

Start calling corporations who receive subsidies what they are-- "Parasites".

Start calling unaccountable mercenary groups in Iraq what they are-- "Pirates".

Start calling the Military Industrial Complex what it is and once understood to be--"War Profiteers".

Start calling Wealth Redistribution to special interest Groups what it is--"Legal Plunder".

Start calling our Fractional Reserve Banking system what it is--"Counterfeiters"

Start calling government coercion into non-aggressive private behavior what it is--"Authoritarianism"

Start calling our Entire Economy what it truly is--"Corporatist".

Explain what our Liberal Internationalist foreign policy really is--"Imperialism" (he's done this one pretty good)

Above all, Explain what these words REALLY mean, and how they are applicable in the context of the national discourse, and the factual reality.

Further explain how divorced we have become from our founding principles. DO NOT hark back to an idealized past that never existed from misplaced nostalgia. Instead, explain why our founding principles are Right, not only because they're enshrined in our founding legal documents, but because they're they BEST guarantor of Human freedom, individual rights, true justice, prosperity and the general welfare of society BAR NONE."

Please feel free to also read the rest of conversation


http://vt.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2229718737&topic=11024

I think this is right on target.

Ron Paul Fan
09-30-2007, 05:45 PM
No, just because one or two people feel this way doesn't mean the whole country does. Some of those things Dr. Paul has explained why he wants to get rid of them. Income Tax? It's unnecessary if we cut wasteful spending. National ID Card? How many times have you heard him say that it's a violation of our civil liberties? Gutting federal agencies? He's said before he would phase these out. I don't think I've ever heard him say that he would just cut them all on day one. It sounds like this person hasn't done enough research on Ron Paul's stances. I recommend he do some more reading at Ron Paul Library and watching interviews. The debates are a terrible place for Dr. Paul to get his points across, but he has to go to get his name out there. He doesn't have time to give a 3 minute monologue on why we should get rid of the income tax. And now that we have 10 candidates in the debates again, it's going to be tough to get speaking time, but that's just the reality of it. In his speeches that he gives at rallies, I do agree that he could go into this stuff a little deeper and explain things better.

libertygrl
09-30-2007, 05:47 PM
Good thoughts. It is tough to get a first message out to a new ear and at the same time paint the whole picture for those who are nodding.

I think he needs to do a video series on his website going into painting the whole picture. I have been hounding the campaign to do it (I have built the interface) for months now... Many people have been asking for high quality videos on his positions. It would go a LONG way.


Well, that's good for people like us who are internet savy. But remember, there's a HUGE percentage of people who don't use the internet.

takadi
09-30-2007, 05:47 PM
the body of the message is good. its the title that rubs me the wrong way. it should be more positive, like: 'new ways for Ron Paul to attract new voters'.:cool:


Good point, I guess that couldn't hurt. It's just that these methods are hardly new. He's been doing them all of his political career. It's just that in the past few months his demeanor and dialect has been changing quite a bit. It may be in part of trying to live up to his status on the internet and impress supporters who are watching, it may be pressure from the MSM, it may be pressure from HQ, it may be stress and and lack of sleep, it could be alot of things. It's just that my opinion is that it's just making it more difficult for Ron that it really should be.

theseus51
09-30-2007, 05:48 PM
Ron does explain them in detail in his writings and on various interviews. It's just the media wants his ideas summed up in 30 seconds. He has a plan to reintroduce gold as legal tender, to compete with the federal reserve. But I mean think of the average, non-economist citizen, and try explain to them why the federal reserve is bad? It's really hard, and nearly impossible if you only have 30 seconds.

yoshimaroka
09-30-2007, 05:48 PM
Just throwing it in there…

The official website needs charts and graphs of how dramatically the dollar has fallen…etc. and how this effects 'you' the ordinary joe/jane.

Corydoras
09-30-2007, 05:49 PM
I disagree with you about what he should do, because I think name-calling is even more alienating, as well as mystifying. The word "authoritarianism" isn't in most people's vocabulary, and "parasites" isn't going to work when people think, "Hey, my sister works at MegaCorp and she gets better benefits than I do."

But I agree with you, I think he needs to pass beyond being a social critic and do "the vision thing" and start saying, "WHEN I am President, I will build coalitions in order to accomplish..." "WHEN I am President, I will ask Congress to join me in..." "WHEN I am President, I will direct the powers of the Executive Branch to..."

Thor
09-30-2007, 05:53 PM
Well, that's good for people like us who are internet savy. But remember, there's a HUGE percentage of people who don't use the internet.

I think you are wrong. Just about everyone "uses" the Internet. But very few are Internet savvy.

My mom and dad who are in their 60's use the internet, but don't know the first thing about a "forum", or "blogs". They send and receive email, forward stupid jokes and chain letters, go to youtube links in emails, use Google to search for something, and use AOL / IM. That is about it.

But even they can follow a link in an email or IM to a Video on Demand library of Dr Paul that has a stupid simple interface to learn more about him. That is what I am talking about. Very simple and easily linkable so all the email only internet users can use and spread it.

LibertyEagle
09-30-2007, 05:55 PM
No, just because one or two people feel this way doesn't mean the whole country does. Some of those things Dr. Paul has explained why he wants to get rid of them. Income Tax? It's unnecessary if we cut wasteful spending. National ID Card? How many times have you heard him say that it's a violation of our civil liberties?

The point is that people do not understand how any of this could or will, impact them? Civil Liberties? They see no difference in their everyday lives, so they don't care. Income tax? People don't like it, but they don't see how it could be done away with. They have to be shown. They don't get it now.

The other thing that the person writing the piece pointed out was that people have no picture in their mind of what America would be like under Ron Paul. Change is scary. A picture needs to be painted in their minds.

Instead of just criticizing what we are doing now, Ron needs to put forward his own vision of America and the how's and why's of it. I totally agree with the writer that it is going to take more than harkening back to the Constitution. People need to understand WHY the principles are important to their personal freedom. It all needs to be made personal. If the campaign can do that, we win.

murrayrothbard
09-30-2007, 06:00 PM
The other thing that the person writing the piece pointed out was that people have no picture in their mind of what America would be like under Ron Paul. Change is scary. A picture needs to be painted in their minds.

Instead of just criticizing what we are doing now, Ron needs to put forward his own vision of America and the how's and why's of it. I totally agree with the writer that it is going to take more than harkening back to the Constitution. People need to understand WHY the principles are important to their personal freedom. It all needs to be made personal. If the campaign can do that, we win.


Exactly. He must paint the POSITIVE picture of a free society.

Ron Paul Fan
09-30-2007, 06:02 PM
The point is that people do not understand how any of this could or will, impact them? Civil Liberties? They see no difference in their everyday lives, so they don't care. Income tax? People don't like it, but they don't see how it could be done away with. They have to be shown. They don't get it now.

The other thing that the person writing the piece pointed out was that people have no picture in their mind of what America would be like under Ron Paul. Change is scary. A picture needs to be painted in their minds.

Instead of just criticizing what we are doing now, Ron needs to put forward his own vision of America and the how's and why's of it. I totally agree with the writer that it is going to take more than harkening back to the Constitution. People need to understand WHY the principles are important to their personal freedom. It all needs to be made personal. If the campaign can do that, we win.

Ok, I agree with you. But I'll use the same argument you're using against Ron Paul against you. It's easy to sit here and say that he needs to do this, but how does he do it and how can we help? He can't do anything in the debates because he gets 30-60 seconds to speak each time. How else can he reach the people in mass? The google interviews he did when it was his week in the spotlight were fantastic. They went through different issues and he was able to talk for a couple minutes on each one more in depth. Are you talking about something like that in an infomercial type thing?

murrayrothbard
09-30-2007, 06:06 PM
Ok, I agree with you. But I'll use the same argument you're using against Ron Paul against you. It's easy to sit here and say that he needs to do this, but how does he do it and how can we help? He can't do anything in the debates because he gets 30-60 seconds to speak each time. How else can he reach the people in mass? The google interviews he did when it was his week in the spotlight were fantastic. They went through different issues and he was able to talk for a couple minutes on each one more in depth. Are you talking about something like that in an infomercial type thing?

Hey can take a couple of days, hire a top-notch film crew, sit down and talk about everything he thinks is important. Conversational fireside chat, with in-depth discussion about his philosophy and ideas. Campaign then makes this raw DVD quality footage available to grassroots. We can pick and choose issues to build custom niche DVDs...

hard@work
09-30-2007, 06:08 PM
From the context of this post I would say the voter is alienating themself. Mostly through frustration with the items that he has pointed out. He should understand that just because he wants to stand up and call out the parasites for what they are, it does not mean Ron can go do the same.

Akus
09-30-2007, 06:20 PM
I agree completely with a thread starter that a lot of RP rhetoric needs to be either dumbed down, pop-culture-ized, or put in a packageable "if we pull out, the terrorists will come here"-like sound bite. But he was really never been given a chance to explain himself. He was never given more then a couple of seconds to explain his position. That's why it "looks" like he said that we deserved 9/11. That's why it "looks" like he said we need to follow our enemies directives. I hope that wherever he is campaigning, he has enough time to really explain in plain simple English why Dept of Education help nothing, why FEMA only makes disaster problems worse.

That's all I gotta say about this.

plopolp
09-30-2007, 06:22 PM
TV-debates (and commercials) are opportunities for raising curiosity, not much more.

Issues can only be explained by Ron Paul producing a series of videos (basically like speeches or friendly interviews) where he explains each topic in depth. The internet is our mass media. We are not anymore totally dependant on being asked questions by some TV host, in order to get the opportunity to speak to the people in total about 10 minutes per month. We need to produce content for our own mass media. And Ron Paul just talking is the best kind of content I can imagine!

takadi
09-30-2007, 06:25 PM
I agree completely with a thread starter that a lot of RP rhetoric needs to be either dumbed down, pop-culture-ized, or put in a packageable "if we pull out, the terrorists will come here"-like sound bite. But he was really never been given a chance to explain himself. He was never given more then a couple of seconds to explain his position. That's why it "looks" like he said that we deserved 9/11. That's why it "looks" like he said we need to follow our enemies directives. I hope that wherever he is campaigning, he has enough time to really explain in plain simple English why Dept of Education help nothing, why FEMA only makes disaster problems worse.

That's all I gotta say about this.


I really don't think it needs to be dumbed down at all. I think he just needs to choose the right words. Have you seen his past debates? Take the MSNBC one. And take another forum type debate scene , the WMUR forum. Then take the PBS and Value Voter's one. There is a huge difference in speech conduct.

Whatever it is, I do not think Ron should compromise anything for the sake of anyone, even Ron Paul supporters. But that being said, if he changes his wording around and chooses them more wisely, I'd say he wouldn't be compromising anything. They are his words after all right?

Corydoras
09-30-2007, 06:30 PM
I really don't think it needs to be dumbed down at all. I think he just needs to choose the right words.

I think "choosing the right words" is a synonym for "dumbing down."
:p

takadi
09-30-2007, 06:39 PM
I think "choosing the right words" is a synonym for "dumbing down."
:p

Not at all. There's a difference between saying "We need to get rid of medicaid and medicare and bring it back to the free market" and saying "socialized medicine results in poorer quality service and with our nation on the verge of bankruptcy, we simply can't afford it." Of course, that might not be the best example, but they are parts of the same argument.

Dumbing down talking points is what Obama and Giuliani does. They are hollow and have no foundation. All Ron Paul needs to do is tell people what they need to hear so it can spark their curiosity to find more about it later.

LibertyEagle
09-30-2007, 06:43 PM
Ok, I agree with you. But I'll use the same argument you're using against Ron Paul against you. It's easy to sit here and say that he needs to do this, but how does he do it and how can we help? He can't do anything in the debates because he gets 30-60 seconds to speak each time. How else can he reach the people in mass? The google interviews he did when it was his week in the spotlight were fantastic. They went through different issues and he was able to talk for a couple minutes on each one more in depth. Are you talking about something like that in an infomercial type thing?

Something like that, but they need to be better than the spotlight interviews. I didn't think they were so great at all. I think he needed to explain better. Plus, I think they needed to be edited to take out the stutters and stumblings. Those don't come across well. If we had a series of these in high-res video, we could duplicate the heck out of them and get them out there. Of course, it would also need a good intro, big picture video as a lead-in.

I also think he needs a professionally-done video on his campaign web site (up front and center) that shows him sitting behind a desk, looking and talking presidential, in which he paints the big picture of what a Ron Paul presidency would look like and why people should care.

As far as the debates go, I do think he can improve. See, I think one of his very best performances was in the very first debate. His demeanor was very different in those days and he came across much better, IMO. Lately, he appears very jumpy and actually his best performances are when he gets mad. People want to see passion, but they also want to feel that they can entrust their President with our nukes, you know?

Another concern is that just throwing out things like, "get rid of the IRS", might momentarily appeal to people, but the reality is that most people think this is nuts. If a picture was painted in their minds how easily this could be accomplished, they would become believers.

I also really wish he would start exuding more confidence. Stop it with the big surprise that he has such a big net following, or has so many Meetup groups, and stop marginalizing himself or his campaign. He has to establish himself in the eyes of the American public as a confident leader.

He has to BELIEVE he can win. It will attract more and more people and also attract donations.

Corydoras
09-30-2007, 06:48 PM
As far as the debates go, I do think he can improve. See, I think one of his very best performance was in the very first debate. His demeanor was very different in those days and he came across much better, IMO. Lately, he appears very jumpy and actually has his best performances are when he gets mad. People want to see passion, but they also want to feel that they can entrust their President with our nukes, you know?

I really hate to have to agree. What solidified my support for the Ron Paul Revolution was watching C-Span clips of him in Congress, so calm and confident and dispensing knowledge and arguing for his votes. We are not seeing that in the more recent debates.

USPatriot36
09-30-2007, 06:53 PM
Start calling corporations who receive subsidies what they are-- "Parasites".
Start calling unaccountable mercenary groups in Iraq what they are-- "Pirates".
Start calling the Military Industrial Complex what it is and once understood to be--"War Profiteers".
Start calling Wealth Redistribution to special interest Groups what it is--"Legal Plunder".
Start calling our Fractional Reserve Banking system what it is--"Counterfeiters"
Start calling government coercion into non-aggressive private behavior what it is--"Authoritarianism"
Start calling our Entire Economy what it truly is--"Corporatist".


I don't think the answer is for Ron to start calling people names. His approach of discussing the issues and informing people has gotten him elected 10 times. In the June debate, if Ron had simply called Giuliani a "War Monger" instead of explaining "Blowback" his campaign would of never gotten off the ground.

takadi
09-30-2007, 06:56 PM
I really hate to have to agree. What solidified my support for the Ron Paul Revolution was watching C-Span clips of him in Congress, so calm and confident and dispensing knowledge and arguing for his votes. We are not seeing that in the more recent debates.

I'll say this to the other supporters as well, don't be afraid to offer constructive criticism. We have to focus on what our goals are here, and ultimately its to get Ron Paul past the primaries. He's finished if he doesn't make it through. Period. No third parties or nothing.

We are absolutely not bashing Ron Paul, and we are not trying to make this campaign look like a joke. As Ron Paul says, if we made the wrong diagnosis, we should change the treatment. Fearing criticism and change is the same things that got the Republican party in trouble in the first place.

That being said, I was a huge liberal before finding out about Ron Paul, and I will fully admit, if I watched Ron Paul on the PBS debates as opposed to the first debate I saw of him at the MSNBC one, I would have been turned off.

angelatc
09-30-2007, 06:56 PM
Not at all. There's a difference between saying "We need to get rid of medicaid and medicare and bring it back to the free market" and saying "socialized medicine results in poorer quality service and with our nation on the verge of bankruptcy, we simply can't afford it." Of course, that might not be the best example, but they are parts of the same argument.


I think that's a very good example. Another is "Get rid of the IRS and replace it with nothing."



I really hate to have to agree. What solidified my support for the Ron Paul Revolution was watching C-Span clips of him in Congress, so calm and confident and dispensing knowledge and arguing for his votes. We are not seeing that in the more recent debates.

Yes, I also noticed that , just yesterday, while watching the Reagan Library debate.

takadi
09-30-2007, 06:57 PM
I don't think the answer is for Ron to start calling people names. His approach of discussing the issues and informing people has gotten him elected 10 times. In the June debate, if Ron had simply called Giuliani a "War Monger" instead of explaining "Blowback" his campaign would of never gotten off the ground.

I agree with you there. I think simply explaining himself will be more than enough to get him to plant the seed of curiosity in people's minds. Name calling might be a little too loaded to reach across the political spectrum

LibertyEagle
09-30-2007, 07:05 PM
Not at all. There's a difference between saying "We need to get rid of medicaid and medicare and bring it back to the free market" and saying "socialized medicine results in poorer quality service and with our nation on the verge of bankruptcy, we simply can't afford it." Of course, that might not be the best example, but they are parts of the same argument.

Dumbing down talking points is what Obama and Giuliani does. They are hollow and have no foundation. All Ron Paul needs to do is tell people what they need to hear so it can spark their curiosity to find more about it later.

Yes. Saying we should get rid of medicare and medicaid scares the bejeezus out of people who are on it, or are close to that age. It's up to him to make people understand that he's not going to pull the carpet out from under them and it's going to have to be repeated, over and over.

I agree with you too about statements about the free market. Most people have no idea what that means and quite frankly, their minds go to thinking that he is for creating more Halliburtons or other similar companies. You and I know that's not what he's talking about, but THEY don't. Yes, I know he differentiated in a couple of side interviews between free markets and corporatism, but the masses did not see that. One segment of the public thinks whatever big business does is good and another thinks exactly the opposite. They are both wrong.

Both Ron's job in this campaign and our own, in assisting, is much more difficult than all the rest. Facilitating change, always is. Because there is a huge education component that goes along with it.

Alabama Supporter
09-30-2007, 07:07 PM
I sure hope he does start painting a picture of what his presidency will be like. Unfortunately right now he spends alot of time criticizing the status quo because it is so screwed up, but he really needs to start projecting the image of the future.

Abolishing the IRS, the Fed, Dept of Education, CIA, and bringing back EVERY soldier from overseas is radical to the average voter. He's got to tone that stuff down in my opinion.

LibertyEagle
09-30-2007, 07:08 PM
I agree with you there. I think simply explaining himself will be more than enough to get him to plant the seed of curiosity in people's minds. Name calling might be a little too loaded to reach across the political spectrum

Yeah, I agree with that too.

takadi
09-30-2007, 07:10 PM
It makes me wonder if HQ ever reads these forums and such. I've heard people on here trying to contact HQ for quite a while to no avail about their ideas.

I love Ron Paul and all, but I donated my dollars for a reason, and I expect HQ to at least listen to our concerns.

LibertyEagle
09-30-2007, 07:11 PM
Abolishing the IRS, the Fed, Dept of Education, CIA, and bringing back EVERY soldier from overseas is radical to the average voter. He's got to tone that stuff down in my opinion.

To me, mentioning things like the IRS, the Dept. of Education, the CIA, etc. are symptoms. Not the real problem. I want him to go back to discussing the proper role of government. It's my opinion that this is the real issue. If people could really see and touch how much better off they would be if they were in more control of their own lives, the job would be done. Right now, they can't see it.

LibertyEagle
09-30-2007, 07:13 PM
It makes me wonder if HQ ever reads these forums and such. I've heard people on here trying to contact HQ for quite a while to no avail about their ideas.

I love Ron Paul and all, but I donated my dollars for a reason, and I expect HQ to at least listen to our concerns.

Well, this isn't an official campaign forum. It's one started and funded by the grassroots. ie. Josh (thanks Josh). I know a couple of people have said the campaign sometimes reads here, but I kinda doubt it. I think they're all busy with other things.

takadi
09-30-2007, 07:14 PM
LibertyEagle

The problem is, I think he's trying to pander to his supporters way too much. My theory is that he was an underdog for most of his political career, and this huge wave of support is putting pressure on him to please us Ron Paul supporters. Ron Paul, we will back you up 100 percent all the way. If only he could get more people to say the same thing....

Perhaps was it his underdog mentality that gave him the edge in previous debates?

I would appreciate it if someone could contact an HQ member about this. I honestly don't think his new methods are forming positive results, and what's better for HQ than to hear it from the underground network that started it all. Of course, if someone could prove me wrong on my concerns, I'll reconsider. Perhaps HQ knows something we don't? Or perhaps they are just disconnected?

fj45lvr
09-30-2007, 07:22 PM
I agree that Ron Paul should talk more about how he would realistically implement his ideas


AMEN

People need more details than "desires".

peacemonger
09-30-2007, 07:29 PM
A piece of very brutal honesty. I'm sorry if this hurts but it is for our own good:
A poll posted on one of the other threads showed that Ron Paul has some pretty high negative ratings. We can disagree with the poll but I think Ron Paul has high negative ratings for a few reasons which we need to understand.

1) Although his message is strong, he often gets into explaining things that sound WIERD to most people. Very few Americans really understand the FED, NAFTA, WTO, IMF, inflation, interest rates, national ID cards, and so on. It makes people uncomfortable.

2) Ron Paul is a great man, but he does not speak well. (My mom says he sounds like he's always a little drunk- she likes Huckabee.) His voice is sometimes a little high, which seems weak for a president. He does not always finish his words or sentences which makes him seem scatterbrained.

3) Many people think he is a cut-and-run coward who would not defend this country under any circumstances. They don't believe the Muslims will leave us alone if we come home from the Middle East.

4) There are other problems that are just a mish-mash of fringe issues:
a. A lot of people thing ending the war on drugs is unrealistic.
b. Some of the educated economics people think he wants a full return to the gold standard and they think that is stupid.
c. A lot of people want him to say he will overturn Roe Vs. Wade. They don't understand states' rights.
d. A lot of people think he is too pro-life and would take away a womans reproductive rights
e. My sister is a teacher and a democrat. She thinks getting rid of the Department of education is dumb. (She doesn't know what she is talking about but I still love her.)
f. A lot of people don't understand how we could get rid of the IRS.
g. A lot of people like Hanity, Rush, O'Reilly, and Mike Savage and they know these guys don't like Ron Paul.

This may be painful to hear. It was not fun for me to write this. I am devoted to getting Ron Paul elected but this is an uphill battle of biblical proportions. As stated by Sun Tsu in the Art of War 500BC: If we are going to win this thing we need to be extremely aware of our vulnerabilities. If we don't know ourselves as well as our opponents, we will certainly fail. I will probably write his name in if he is not on the ballot next November anyway.

God Bless Ron Paul and the Revolution

kill the banks
09-30-2007, 07:34 PM
i think the root of ron paul's success rests in the authority of the constitution and making each change he proposes framed in it and maintain his goal as champion of it ... fashion an image as a founding father and just teach constitution 101 to a dumbed down electorate ... kill the banks

Corydoras
09-30-2007, 07:35 PM
I am devoted to getting Ron Paul elected but this is an uphill battle of biblical proportions. As stated by Sun Tsu in the Art of War 500BC: If we are going to win this thing we need to be extremely aware of our vulnerabilities. If we don't know ourselves as well as our opponents, we will certainly fail. I will probably write his name in if he is not on the ballot next November anyway.

God Bless Ron Paul and the Revolution


Thank you for writing what you did. That was hard but it says things that you are not alone in thinking. Many people have observed these things here and there throughout the forums.

takadi
09-30-2007, 07:39 PM
A piece of very brutal honesty. I'm sorry if this hurts but it is for our own good:
A poll posted on one of the other threads showed that Ron Paul has some pretty high negative ratings. We can disagree with the poll but I think Ron Paul has high negative ratings for a few reasons which we need to understand.

1) Although his message is strong, he often gets into explaining things that sound WIERD to most people. Very few Americans really understand the FED, NAFTA, WTO, IMF, inflation, interest rates, national ID cards, and so on. It makes people uncomfortable.

2) Ron Paul is a great man, but he does not speak well. (My mom says he sounds like he's always a little drunk- she likes Huckabee.) His voice is sometimes a little high, which seems weak for a president. He does not always finish his words or sentences which makes him seem scatterbrained.

3) Many people think he is a cut-and-run coward who would not defend this country under any circumstances. They don't believe the Muslims will leave us alone if we come home from the Middle East.

4) There are other problems that are just a mish-mash of fringe issues:
a. A lot of people thing ending the war on drugs is unrealistic.
b. Some of the educated economics people think he wants a full return to the gold standard and they think that is stupid.
c. A lot of people want him to say he will overturn Roe Vs. Wade. They don't understand states' rights.
d. A lot of people think he is too pro-life and would take away a womans reproductive rights
e. My sister is a teacher and a democrat. She thinks getting rid of the Department of education is dumb. (She doesn't know what she is talking about but I still love her.)
f. A lot of people don't understand how we could get rid of the IRS.
g. A lot of people like Hanity, Rush, O'Reilly, and Mike Savage and they know these guys don't like Ron Paul.

This may be painful to hear. It was not fun for me to write this. I am devoted to getting Ron Paul elected but this is an uphill battle of biblical proportions. As stated by Sun Tsu in the Art of War 500BC: If we are going to win this thing we need to be extremely aware of our vulnerabilities. If we don't know ourselves as well as our opponents, we will certainly fail. I will probably write his name in if he is not on the ballot next November anyway.

God Bless Ron Paul and the Revolution


Yes, I understand its hard for people. But for me, I love Ron Paul so much that I will do whatever it takes to get him past those primaries, even if it means criticizing the man himself. The concepts of liberty and the constitution have meant alot to me for the past decade, it would be a shame to waste our efforts because of something we could have easily prevented and fixed

BarryDonegan
09-30-2007, 08:03 PM
nitpicking.

obviously he has to focus on a catchy, dumbed down version of his policy.

if he rambles about austrian economics he will lose by a ton.

we're just gonna have to trust that hes done his homework on that for now. i think that the fact that hes a standup guy and is not bought out by big companies is a safer bet, even if his idea was terrible, because at least he still owns himself to make up an idea and do it at all.

Zarxrax
09-30-2007, 08:15 PM
I think you are wrong. Just about everyone "uses" the Internet. But very few are Internet savvy.

My mom and dad who are in their 60's use the internet, but don't know the first thing about a "forum", or "blogs". They send and receive email, forward stupid jokes and chain letters

YES! We need ron paul chain letters!!! It needs to include at least 4 or 5 animated gifs of a large-headed ron paul doing funny things. The text should include lots of pretty colors. "Do you want freedom in America? Forward this to 10 people, and it will come true!"

New York Central
09-30-2007, 08:36 PM
I think the strategy needs to change and go to the mainstream audience. You will not change the population of the US in 3 months.

Spread the knowledge of how free markets, free people and diplomacy work. Talk about the economy and how Ron Paul is the only one willing to get balanced budgets and will attack the deficit. Tell them how Ron Paul would have destroyed the Taliban and Al Qaeda and we would being living in peace for the past couple of years.

Gloom and Doom pushes many people away. Stand firm that many things are in critical shape and Ron Paul is willing and able to fix them.

Above all this is about Ron Paul trying to get the presidency. There should be no relations to what anyone might have as a personal agenda.

I would stick to the following; sound economics, a diplomatic foreign policy, a strong defense, secure borders, enforcing immigration laws, cutting the federal government's scope and spending, strengthening social security while allowing young americans to opt out, the philosophy and strength of individual rights being preferred over group rights, moving more power to the states and people and out of the federal governments hands.

People know the country is going in the wrong direction on all these topics. Let them know Ron Paul is the one to reverse direction on all of these and this will undoubtedly benefit them. There is no time to fully educate the populous for this election, stick to the basics. Ron Paul has a winning formula, don't complicate it. K.I.S.S.

Stacey S
09-30-2007, 08:43 PM
I wasn't impressed with his performance on the PBS debate either, infact Tom Tancredo was suggesting allot of the same ideas that Ron Paul was, and Tom sounded more confident and capable. Some of Ron's responses sounded like they were ruled by emotions, and didn't reflect the years of experience and insight that he actually posesses. I felt deflated after it was over and just hoped that the audience would respond differently than I would.

Bryan
09-30-2007, 08:44 PM
It makes me wonder if HQ ever reads these forums and such. I've heard people on here trying to contact HQ for quite a while to no avail about their ideas.

I love Ron Paul and all, but I donated my dollars for a reason, and I expect HQ to at least listen to our concerns.
Nobody has time to read everything here. :) My thought is that people should work to get their ideas refined (either in their meet-up group or even here when possible- even with PMs) before calling the campaign, that way we use their time as best possible. My fiat $0.02.


i think the root of ron paul's success rests in the authority of the constitution and making each change he proposes framed in it and maintain his goal as champion of it ... fashion an image as a founding father and just teach constitution 101 to a dumbed down electorate ... kill the banks
I like this thought process- simple, mythical-- yet effective.

BarryDonegan
09-30-2007, 11:35 PM
if your theory that gloom and doom pushes people away were true.... would we be having the problem were having with 911 and the war on terror ;)

vertesc
10-01-2007, 12:00 AM
i see your point and agree to some measure. But that is a problem with debates and little interview clips. You can't explain a plan to withdraw from Iraq in detail in 30 seconds... at least not without a damned good powerpoint presentation! lol

I don't know what the usual procedure is in the US, but in Canada many parties put out a book (usually downloadable from their website) with details and a rough budget. In debates, questions are often brought up about this information, but it svaes you the trouble of explaining a complex concept in a sound byte.

Corydoras
10-01-2007, 12:06 AM
I don't know what the usual procedure is in the US, but in Canada many parties put out a book (usually downloadable from their website) with details and a rough budget. In debates, questions are often brought up about this information, but it svaes you the trouble of explaining a complex concept in a sound byte.

No American politician (or few, anyway) would be caught dead with anything resembling a written plan. George H.W. Bush got in huge trouble just for saying at a rally, "No new taxes!" and people thought it was a promise.

I guess the closest thing to it that we have is the candidate memoir, a few hundred pages published as an ordinary hardcover book by an ordinary publishing house. Too late for Ron to pull one together.

katao
10-01-2007, 12:12 AM
This is a very important issue. But we need to remember that this is just as much about US as it is Ron Paul. We are the Revolution, Ron Paul is the great man chosen by us to implement it.

What does that mean - WHY WAIT FOR HQ TO DO IT?

Write letters to the editor, write blog entries, submit articles, create your own videos, etc. helping people to understand how freedom and liberty will make a real difference in peoples lives. Paint the vision for them - a positive, clear vision of the society our founders dreamed of. Then help them to see that Ron Paul will implement that vision.

RobotJaxxon
10-01-2007, 02:09 AM
Sadly, candidates are now judged by their ability to solve our "problems", not by their ability to uphold the law or protect our liberty. Libertarian politicians either have rejected this part of the political process (causing them to be rejected by voters), or are just unaware of it. The issues being discussed here are paramount to not just Ron Paul's campain, but to the libertarian political philosophy in general.

To become a mainstream candidate, Ron Paul has to present a specific vision for his America, individual solutions that don't require a leap of faith that the voters unwilling or unable to take. For whatever reason, many Americans are comfortable with "the Government will take care of it" but not comfortable with "we'll make it easier for companies to take care of it". He doesn't need a specific vision for all policy topics, but he does need a few good ones that will build faith and trust in his "solutions".

With this goal, I have an idea to counter the socialized healthcare plans offered by the Democratic candidates. I'll try to give a quick overview here.

First, it should be explained that the current state of health insurance is a misapplication of free market principals. First, it is tied to employers, an idea that is anachronistic considering most people today will change jobs 6 or more times during their career. This restricts the consumer's ability to 'speak with their wallets', which from the consumer's view looks a lot like a monopoly, a company store for health care. Second, health insurance is a middleman that inverts the natural incentives of a free market. Since the only real service an insurance company provides is to collect and spend money (sound like a government, anyone?!?), its only incentive is to collect as much money as possible and spend as little as possible. Individuals would do the leg work to find the best cost-speed-quality balance for their situation, and providers would respond to this. Plus, the more hands the money passes through between the consumer and the provider, the less efficient the market will be.

I can envision a free-market approach to health care that I call a doctor-hospital co-op. This would call on the hospital to take the role of health insurance provider. The main difference is that instead of just collecting money for a risk-pool, the doctor-hospital co-op would collect money and use it to directly fund the hospital operations. They would pay for doctors and nurses, for hospital equipment (MRI machines, CT scanners, etc). So when a consumer pays into the doctor-hospital co-op, they are guaranteed service at their hospital. The doctors can make decisions on the most equitable use of the equipment. As a co-op, the hospital would have an incentive to keep its monthly costs down (to gain more participants), to provide quality serivce and to do it quickly. For people who can't afford the monthly 'premiums', they could offer a volunteer program to help offset the costs. Donate 10 hours a week doing paperwork, cleaning rooms, etc, and get a reduction in the premiums. No Medicare or Medicaid or Welfare.

This idea may not be perfect, but it seems like a good starting point to me. Perhaps it sounds similar to a charity hospital, but the difference in marketing is important. The premise in today's politics is to have a specific vision, something people could imagine that doesn't just involve things disappearing.

Politeia
10-01-2007, 05:32 AM
I can only think that either HQ is short on workers .... And I'd just wish they would look into some requests and discussions of RP forums. There are some VERY useful and informative hints and clues that could significantly help the campaign.


It makes me wonder if HQ ever reads these forums and such. I've heard people on here trying to contact HQ for quite a while to no avail about their ideas. I love Ron Paul and all, but I donated my dollars for a reason, and I expect HQ to at least listen to our concerns.

I would generally give HQ the "benefit of the doubt" on these issues. Neither Ron Paul nor any of the people who persuaded him to run and formed this initial team had any idea of what was going to happen. I'm sure they are overwhelmed, both in terms of the sheer volume of what needs to be done to respond to the response, and in terms of how to respond.

For instance, look at the campaign materials available from the official site. I wanted to get some "slim jim" type cards/brochures to pass out, but what they had -- with the photo of Ron Paul with Ronald Reagan, which would be poison where I live and among the people I know -- was useless for me. This was the audience they thought they'd be addressing; that so many "disaffected liberals" would jump on the wagon was simply and entirely unexpected.

The Ron Paul Campaign has suddenly found itself riding a tiger, and is scrambling to stay aboard. They're used to talking to (libertarians and) Republicans; they don't know quite what to say to your average inner-city welfare single mother. They and we know that a Ron Paul America would be better for everyone, but how to get that across? It's going to take a lot of thought, and work. And finding a way around the system that allows only 20-second sound bites.

I don't know if HQ reads these forums. There are some really good thoughts and ideas here, but there's also a lot of chaff, and it takes a lot of time to sift through and find the gold. That's just how it is. I would not criticize HQ if they simply don't have the manpower to do so at this time.

The Ron Paul campaign is breaking new ground, exploring entirely new territory. There's never been anything like it. That it's been as successful as it has is already astonishing, IMO. I really do have the feeling that Someone is watching over all this. (Note: I am not a Christian, and this is not my customary way of thinking about events.) That the incredible power of the Internet should suddenly become manifest in connection with the campaign of a member of the older generation who actually knows very little about the Internet -- but who is cheerfully willing to learn -- is really convincing evidence to me that something very unusual, even transcendent, is happening here.

Like that old song by some members of my generation says, "... what it is ain't exactly clear...." As I've said before, I truly never expected anything like this to happen in my lifetime. Like Dr. Paul (who is just eight years older than me), I thought the best we could do for now would be to plant some seeds, that would take another generation or two to sprout. And like Dr. Paul, I feel that whatever the outcome, what's happened already is worth celebrating.

I've been trying to communicate these ideas to people for over 25 years, with little more than no success at all. Nobody was interested. Now it seems some people, finally, are interested. Whether it will be enough to accomplish the change we wish for remains to be seen. That part is out of our hands. All we can do is do our best, and leave the results up to Whoever's Running This Show. So long as we do our honest best, we need have no regrets, or recriminations -- so long as we are doing our best, we won't have time to criticize the efforts of others, including campaign HQ, all of whom are also doing their best. Dr. Paul knows this; he's doing his best, and not worrying about the outcome. As he says, it's not worth doing if we can't enjoy it while we do it. That's the real difference -- do you hear any other candidate insisting that we should all be having fun while we do this?

Maybe Ron Paul won't get the nomination, or the presidency. Frankly, I'll be astonished if he does. (I'm quite willing to be astonished; it's fun. A lot of people seem to be so uneasy with uncertainty that they'd rather be certain of a negative outcome than confront the insecurity of not knowing. But the truth is, we can't know the future; this world is bigger and more amazing than we can ever know. So why not just relax, enjoy ourselves, and let it happen as it will?) But regardless of the outcome, nothing is lost; the mass awakening, the coming together of Americans in a joyful common endeavor, will still be with us. The Ron Paul Revolution has literally given me my country back.


What does that mean - WHY WAIT FOR HQ TO DO IT?

I remember back in the 60s, I saw a sign on a commune wall once: "If you care about it, it's your responsibility." That's what's happening in the Ron Paul Revolution. Don't criticize the campaign HQ for what they're not doing; if you think it needs to be done, do it yourself. Someone made a new slim jim card, without Ronald Reagan, then someone in our meetup downloaded the file and modified it and printed a few thousand, and I got a bunch from her and have been passing them out. Then those folks in NH made up that beautiful card with the mosaic on it, and we bought a thousand of those; I just picked up a hundred yesterday and will be passing them out too. None of the other candidates has this kind of free-market volunteer creative effort. Precisely because it's not run from the top, it's hard to see how tremendous it is.

If someone here has the skills, maybe they can look through what's available, the speeches we have, the CSPAN materials, and make up a few videos of Dr. Paul explaining his positions in more detail. And send them to the campaign. If they're good enough, I bet they'll put them up.


Plus, I think they needed to be edited to take out the stutters and stumblings.

It's true Dr. Paul's delivery seems to vary widely lately; he's under a lot of pressure, and he is, after all, 72 years old. We need to take really good care of him. I don't think this country has had a president who finished his second term in his 80s. See this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=18716) for what I thought was one of his best speeches, really tight, clear and systematic; he does have it in him, when he's rested and has the right venue. I see someone has posted some YouTube links, which I haven't had time to check out.

wgadget
10-01-2007, 05:52 AM
Ron Paul should stop sounding so angry, say what needs to be said in a positive, fresh way, showing that he really is Hope For America...a la Ronald Reagan.

LibertyEagle
10-01-2007, 07:17 AM
I just wanted to make sure you knew about the new Slim Jims that the campaign has available.

http://www.ronpaul2008store.com/servlet/Detail?no=8

Thor
10-01-2007, 07:59 AM
YES! We need ron paul chain letters!!! It needs to include at least 4 or 5 animated gifs of a large-headed ron paul doing funny things. The text should include lots of pretty colors. "Do you want freedom in America? Forward this to 10 people, and it will come true!"

What, like bobble heads?

DrNoZone
10-01-2007, 08:17 AM
I would generally give HQ the "benefit of the doubt" on these issues. Neither Ron Paul nor any of the people who persuaded him to run and formed this initial team had any idea of what was going to happen. I'm sure they are overwhelmed, both in terms of the sheer volume of what needs to be done to respond to the response, and in terms of how to respond.

For instance, look at the campaign materials available from the official site. I wanted to get some "slim jim" type cards/brochures to pass out, but what they had -- with the photo of Ron Paul with Ronald Reagan, which would be poison where I live and among the people I know -- was useless for me. This was the audience they thought they'd be addressing; that so many "disaffected liberals" would jump on the wagon was simply and entirely unexpected.

The Ron Paul Campaign has suddenly found itself riding a tiger, and is scrambling to stay aboard. They're used to talking to (libertarians and) Republicans; they don't know quite what to say to your average inner-city welfare single mother. They and we know that a Ron Paul America would be better for everyone, but how to get that across? It's going to take a lot of thought, and work. And finding a way around the system that allows only 20-second sound bites.

I don't know if HQ reads these forums. There are some really good thoughts and ideas here, but there's also a lot of chaff, and it takes a lot of time to sift through and find the gold. That's just how it is. I would not criticize HQ if they simply don't have the manpower to do so at this time.

The Ron Paul campaign is breaking new ground, exploring entirely new territory. There's never been anything like it. That it's been as successful as it has is already astonishing, IMO. I really do have the feeling that Someone is watching over all this. (Note: I am not a Christian, and this is not my customary way of thinking about events.) That the incredible power of the Internet should suddenly become manifest in connection with the campaign of a member of the older generation who actually knows very little about the Internet -- but who is cheerfully willing to learn -- is really convincing evidence to me that something very unusual, even transcendent, is happening here.

Like that old song by some members of my generation says, "... what it is ain't exactly clear...." As I've said before, I truly never expected anything like this to happen in my lifetime. Like Dr. Paul (who is just eight years older than me), I thought the best we could do for now would be to plant some seeds, that would take another generation or two to sprout. And like Dr. Paul, I feel that whatever the outcome, what's happened already is worth celebrating.

I've been trying to communicate these ideas to people for over 25 years, with little more than no success at all. Nobody was interested. Now it seems some people, finally, are interested. Whether it will be enough to accomplish the change we wish for remains to be seen. That part is out of our hands. All we can do is do our best, and leave the results up to Whoever's Running This Show. So long as we do our honest best, we need have no regrets, or recriminations -- so long as we are doing our best, we won't have time to criticize the efforts of others, including campaign HQ, all of whom are also doing their best. Dr. Paul knows this; he's doing his best, and not worrying about the outcome. As he says, it's not worth doing if we can't enjoy it while we do it. That's the real difference -- do you hear any other candidate insisting that we should all be having fun while we do this?

Maybe Ron Paul won't get the nomination, or the presidency. Frankly, I'll be astonished if he does. (I'm quite willing to be astonished; it's fun. A lot of people seem to be so uneasy with uncertainty that they'd rather be certain of a negative outcome than confront the insecurity of not knowing. But the truth is, we can't know the future; this world is bigger and more amazing than we can ever know. So why not just relax, enjoy ourselves, and let it happen as it will?) But regardless of the outcome, nothing is lost; the mass awakening, the coming together of Americans in a joyful common endeavor, will still be with us. The Ron Paul Revolution has literally given me my country back.


Wow, what an inspiring message this is. I love to hear from those in the older generations who are involved in the RP revolution. We have an older member in our Meetup group that gives us all inspiring speech's at our Meetup's.

LBT
10-01-2007, 08:32 AM
The Ron Paul campaign is breaking new ground, exploring entirely new territory. There's never been anything like it. That it's been as successful as it has is already astonishing, IMO. I really do have the feeling that Someone is watching over all this. (Note: I am not a Christian, and this is not my customary way of thinking about events.) That the incredible power of the Internet should suddenly become manifest in connection with the campaign of a member of the older generation who actually knows very little about the Internet -- but who is cheerfully willing to learn -- is really convincing evidence to me that something very unusual, even transcendent, is happening here.


I have the same feeling that someone was watching over the founding fathers too, when they fought for their independence.

Whatever power it is that sees over us, it would seem he nudges destiny in the direction of liberty, when the people show themselves willing to seek it.:eek:

Politeia
10-01-2007, 09:29 AM
I just wanted to make sure you knew about the new Slim Jims that the campaign has available.

http://www.ronpaul2008store.com/servlet/Detail?no=8

Thanks, these do look pretty good; but I still like the volunteer slim jims better (though I can't find where I saw them now). But even better is the half-page flyer with the mosaic on it, and lots of info on the back, which costs only $91/1000 (i.e. 9.1c each) and looks really good:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=16701

Politeia
10-01-2007, 09:38 AM
Wow, what an inspiring message this is. I love to hear from those in the older generations who are involved in the RP revolution. We have an older member in our Meetup group that gives us all inspiring speech's at our Meetup's.

it's nice to know that one is heard. I've known about Dr. Paul since 1981, sent him money now and then, and quietly applauded his latest, apparently quixotic, effort, but at age 64 and chronically ill, for my part I really had given up, was hunkering down, digging in and preparing for the Dark Age (and feeling thankful that I might not see the worst of it), when all this began to happen. So, though of course I'm hoping for the best outcome, at the same time I'm not attached, and can enjoy the ride as it happens. Whoever's Running This Show is always ready to surprise us, if we're open.

"... older generations ..."? Oh my, and I can remember when we didn't trust anyone over 30. I can also remember what it was like when as a child I gradually began to realize that everyone was lying to me. Unlike many, I've never gotten over it, and I think this feeling (which we all have, though many are unaware of it) is a lot of why Ron Paul elicits such enthusiasm: an elder who speaks the truth! Next it'll be pigs flying.

katao
10-01-2007, 10:00 AM
I would generally give HQ the "benefit of the doubt" on these issues. Neither Ron Paul nor any of the people who persuaded him to run and formed this initial team had any idea of what was going to happen. I'm sure they are overwhelmed, both in terms of the sheer volume of what needs to be done to respond to the response, and in terms of how to respond.

For instance, look at the campaign materials available from the official site. I wanted to get some "slim jim" type cards/brochures to pass out, but what they had -- with the photo of Ron Paul with Ronald Reagan, which would be poison where I live and among the people I know -- was useless for me. This was the audience they thought they'd be addressing; that so many "disaffected liberals" would jump on the wagon was simply and entirely unexpected.

The Ron Paul Campaign has suddenly found itself riding a tiger, and is scrambling to stay aboard. They're used to talking to (libertarians and) Republicans; they don't know quite what to say to your average inner-city welfare single mother. They and we know that a Ron Paul America would be better for everyone, but how to get that across? It's going to take a lot of thought, and work. And finding a way around the system that allows only 20-second sound bites.

I don't know if HQ reads these forums. There are some really good thoughts and ideas here, but there's also a lot of chaff, and it takes a lot of time to sift through and find the gold. That's just how it is. I would not criticize HQ if they simply don't have the manpower to do so at this time.

The Ron Paul campaign is breaking new ground, exploring entirely new territory. There's never been anything like it. That it's been as successful as it has is already astonishing, IMO. I really do have the feeling that Someone is watching over all this. (Note: I am not a Christian, and this is not my customary way of thinking about events.) That the incredible power of the Internet should suddenly become manifest in connection with the campaign of a member of the older generation who actually knows very little about the Internet -- but who is cheerfully willing to learn -- is really convincing evidence to me that something very unusual, even transcendent, is happening here.

Like that old song by some members of my generation says, "... what it is ain't exactly clear...." As I've said before, I truly never expected anything like this to happen in my lifetime. Like Dr. Paul (who is just eight years older than me), I thought the best we could do for now would be to plant some seeds, that would take another generation or two to sprout. And like Dr. Paul, I feel that whatever the outcome, what's happened already is worth celebrating.

I've been trying to communicate these ideas to people for over 25 years, with little more than no success at all. Nobody was interested. Now it seems some people, finally, are interested. Whether it will be enough to accomplish the change we wish for remains to be seen. That part is out of our hands. All we can do is do our best, and leave the results up to Whoever's Running This Show. So long as we do our honest best, we need have no regrets, or recriminations -- so long as we are doing our best, we won't have time to criticize the efforts of others, including campaign HQ, all of whom are also doing their best. Dr. Paul knows this; he's doing his best, and not worrying about the outcome. As he says, it's not worth doing if we can't enjoy it while we do it. That's the real difference -- do you hear any other candidate insisting that we should all be having fun while we do this?

Maybe Ron Paul won't get the nomination, or the presidency. Frankly, I'll be astonished if he does. (I'm quite willing to be astonished; it's fun. A lot of people seem to be so uneasy with uncertainty that they'd rather be certain of a negative outcome than confront the insecurity of not knowing. But the truth is, we can't know the future; this world is bigger and more amazing than we can ever know. So why not just relax, enjoy ourselves, and let it happen as it will?) But regardless of the outcome, nothing is lost; the mass awakening, the coming together of Americans in a joyful common endeavor, will still be with us. The Ron Paul Revolution has literally given me my country back.



I remember back in the 60s, I saw a sign on a commune wall once: "If you care about it, it's your responsibility." That's what's happening in the Ron Paul Revolution. Don't criticize the campaign HQ for what they're not doing; if you think it needs to be done, do it yourself. Someone made a new slim jim card, without Ronald Reagan, then someone in our meetup downloaded the file and modified it and printed a few thousand, and I got a bunch from her and have been passing them out. Then those folks in NH made up that beautiful card with the mosaic on it, and we bought a thousand of those; I just picked up a hundred yesterday and will be passing them out too. None of the other candidates has this kind of free-market volunteer creative effort. Precisely because it's not run from the top, it's hard to see how tremendous it is.

If someone here has the skills, maybe they can look through what's available, the speeches we have, the CSPAN materials, and make up a few videos of Dr. Paul explaining his positions in more detail. And send them to the campaign. If they're good enough, I bet they'll put them up.



It's true Dr. Paul's delivery seems to vary widely lately; he's under a lot of pressure, and he is, after all, 72 years old. We need to take really good care of him. I don't think this country has had a president who finished his second term in his 80s. See this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=18716) for what I thought was one of his best speeches, really tight, clear and systematic; he does have it in him, when he's rested and has the right venue. I see someone has posted some YouTube links, which I haven't had time to check out.


Thank you for sharing your thoughts - such wisdom. If Ron Paul were on the forums, I am confident he would have written the same message.

Ozwest
10-01-2007, 10:21 AM
Politeia, People of any age would gather strength from your words... There's a younger generation that's got you're back.

Politeia
10-01-2007, 10:36 AM
If Ron Paul were on the forums, I am confident he would have written the same message.

Ron Paul is like the grandfather we all wish we had. That's his "secret".

Not to "dis" my grandfathers, who were both fine men -- or yours. But I remember when Ronald Reagan put on that "wise elder" act while he lied to us, and I wanted to puke. That's real abuse.

Eric21ND
10-01-2007, 12:52 PM
"Making Gold and Silver legal tender? Why?!!"

How much gold and silver do you own?? That scares people.

winston84
10-01-2007, 01:00 PM
I completely agree with the original poster. I haven't heard much from RP in regards to how he will go about enacting his platform, although I don't think he's alienating new voters just yet.

LinuxUser269
10-01-2007, 01:06 PM
Ron Paul should stop sounding so angry, say what needs to be said in a positive, fresh way, showing that he really is Hope For America...a la Ronald Reagan.

a la Ronald Reagan...............didnt have every candidate head hunting for him either and the old media leading the pack of head hunters .

alicegardener
10-01-2007, 01:46 PM
When you say paint a picture of Ron Paul's plan, DO JUST THAT A good many people who don't respond well to abstract ideas and even those who do can be moved by a visual mental picture, whether it is an actual picture or a verbal description where people's imaginations fill it in. This is true especially for a picture that tugs on the emotions, sometimes at a less than conscious level.

Don't you head-tripping geeks pooh-pooh the idea; you have a right brain too under all that grey matter. You want to appeal to girls, don't you? I thought that would get your attention.

The picture needs to be positive for the sake of the non-verbal brain, otherwise it can backfire, ask any advertiser. We have already seen a vehement, urgent Ron Paul with a lot of negative messages and need to balance it with reassuring positives. There is a reason we love the good doctor and not just for his brains. In fact, call him that, The Good Doctor, just as Ronald Reagan was The Great Communicator and W. is The Decider. Trot out Mrs. Paul with her chocolate chip cookies. He needs to advertise that his changes will be done "gently"( a good word to use) in phases. It should be more about caring for and saving people, not just exclusively raising alarms. People need to want to see RP's face and hear his voice every day for the next five years. RP has loads of potential that way.

FrankRep
10-01-2007, 01:50 PM
Ron Paul makes voting, politics, campaigning fun!

yoshimaroka
10-01-2007, 01:59 PM
Each issue has to have:
* overview
* present situation in the USA
* purpose/intention for change
* application of Constitutional knowledge to backup purposes/intentions
* plan
* implementation
* how it effects the reader

Each part needs to be drenched in the message of freedom and liberty which always leads back to the Constitution(needs to be quoted like crazy). The Constitution/Founding Fathers need their own freakin' section.

Visuals:
Charts,graphs,videos and how one issue fits into the whole of the message.

People are seeing Ron Paul signs everywhere and they need the Official site to take them by the hand and guide them to the truth which will then smack the whoops upside the head.

1000-points-of-fright
10-01-2007, 02:09 PM
Hey can take a couple of days, hire a top-notch film crew, sit down and talk about everything he thinks is important. Conversational fireside chat, with in-depth discussion about his philosophy and ideas. Campaign then makes this raw DVD quality footage available to grassroots. We can pick and choose issues to build custom niche DVDs...

OR a Ron Paul supporter who is a professional videographer with editing facilities and a crew can offer to do it for free. That might get the campaign interested in a project like this.

murrayrothbard
10-01-2007, 02:10 PM
Each part needs to be drenched in the message of freedom and liberty which always leads back to the Constitution(needs to be quoted like crazy). The Constitution/Founding Fathers need their own freakin' section.


I really think Ron should stop using an "appeal to authority" type argument to back his positions (i.e everything leading back to the constitution). He's got to explain the WHY of his positions. "Because the Constitution says so" is no argument at all.

Ozwest
10-01-2007, 02:14 PM
I really think Ron should stop using an "appeal to authority" type argument to back his positions (i.e everything leading back to the constitution). He's got to explain the WHY of his positions. "Because the Constitution says so" is no argument at all.

When you deal in 30 second " sound bites " unfortunately, you cannot elaborate.