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teacherone
09-27-2009, 11:57 AM
email I sent out

Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss

http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/bush1.jpg


The criticisms of G.W. Bush were many: He started illegal and wasteful wars, he was a repeated violator of civil liberties, he manipulated the American public's emotional response of fear in order to achieve his objectives, he subsidized and favored corporations over the needs of the people.


These criticisms were and remain accurate, and during his tenure a large faction of the American public vehemently and sometimes violently opposed and protested the actions of their government, a government many felt no longer served their interests, and was causing more harm than good.


Then, with the election of Barack Obama many felt hope that something would change. How could they not? The media proclaimed that this was an election about change. One couldn't turn one's head without seeing the words over and over and over : "BELIEVE" "CHANGE" "HOPE"...


Suddenly and like magic the public anger dissipated. Anti-war protests once numbering in the tens, if not hundreds of thousands disappeared. Shame and rage transformed to pride and tranquility. The people believed that change had occured.


Has it? You decide. (Friendly tip from your ranter---> Click the links for more information :)

Barack Obama is increasing the US presence in Iraq (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/07/AR2009090702242.html) by replacing soldiers leaving for Afghanistan with even larger numbers of private military contractors. He is increasing the US miliary presence in Afghanistan (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27484.html) including 700 members of the CIA (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-intel20-2009sep20,0,1183243.story). He is ordering drone missile attacks on villages in Pakistan. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5575883.ece) He is threatening sanctions backed by force against Iran. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCaZQvB.vV4A) He is building military bases in Colombia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8194497.stm)to counter the presumed threat from Hugo Chavez. And the US once again leads in foreign weapon sales. (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5851XH20090906)


He is calling on Congress to reauthorize the Patriot Act (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/us/politics/20patriot.html?hpw), the act for which as a senator he originally voted YEA. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00029) He is continuing the policy of indefinite detention without charge or trial (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g14aylR2vQjkQhREgNyLjht1dDGw). He is allowing the policy of "anti-terror" rendition to continue. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4425135/Barack-Obama-to-allow-anti-terror-rendition-to-continue.html) His justice department is claiming "state secrets" in trials against two american lawyers (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/09/obama-stands-behind-state-secrets-in-spy-case/) who were illegally wiretapped. And two weeks ago, "the Obama DOJ (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/09/15/bagram/index.html) -- as expected -- filed a legal brief (http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/US-Bagram-brief-9-14-09.pdf) (.pdf) which adopted the arguments originally made by the Bush DOJ to insist that detainees whom they abduct from around the world and then ship to Bagram (rather than Guantanamo) lack any constitutional rights whatsoever, including habeas review".

Just as the "Terror Alert" would move to Orange anytime Bush wanted Congress to fund his wars, as congress was debating to reauthorize the Patriot Act last week, suddenly there were terror threats everywhere: in New York (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/men-arrested-fbi-nyc-terror-plot/story?id=8618732), in Dallas (http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN24478598), in Virginia (http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE58N6YT20090924), in Illinois. (http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN2447383520090924) Suddenly Iran had a super-top-secret-nuclear- facility (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8274903.stm)-that-we've known about for years. The fear card was played once again. And once again the drums of war drone on.


There is no need to detail the billions in corporate welfare that Barack Obama has handed out-- to the banking industry, the housing industry, and the auto industry. Just know that the next two industries to gladly receive your tax dollars are the energy industry (once cap and trade is passed) and the health insurance industry (once universal care is passed). Do not worry citizen, paying more to heat and power your home so that energy companies and banks can profit from the trade of carbon credits (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123655590609066021.html) that they received for free from the government is purely in your own interest. As is being forced to purchase health insurance or face fines and jail time (http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?sho wall). This is solely to protect you and will no way benefit the health insurance industry brutally forced to accept millions of new paying customers, or the pharmaceutical industry, coincidentally now spending millions promoting Obamacare. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26076.html)


Clearly there is little or no difference between the policies of G.W. Bush or B.H. Obama, just as there is little or no difference between the Democratic or the Republican parties. In fact both parties work together and support each other in their efforts to confuse the american public into believing that they have a real choice when they vote. You see this confusion in the Left's protests, against War and for the Welfare State, and the Right's protests against the Welfare State and for War. They are trapped in a false LEFT-RIGHT paradigm (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer104.html) and deliberately so. For if they were ever to wake up and discover, that no matter the party, their labor (their tax dollars) would be stolen from them to be handed over to connected elites, to build bombs and weapons of doom that kill and destroy... there might be a revolution.



For now though, the elites are safe. The American people have been pacified once again. The face has changed, the rhetoric has changed. And the WELFARE-WARFARE (http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2008/06/20/the-welfare-warfare-state/) state marches on...unnoticed.




Love to all,
Teach

amy31416
09-27-2009, 12:00 PM
Hang in there teach, it won't be long before they can't deny how similar Obama is to Bush.

Deborah K
09-27-2009, 12:02 PM
That photo sequence is really creepy! Great post. Many of the sleeping just don't get that we trade one willing puppet for the next. That's all they are anymore - willing puppets. Until we end the money power structure, nothing will ever change.

Andrew-Austin
09-27-2009, 12:03 PM
Owned

squarepusher
09-27-2009, 12:36 PM
great post

Lisle16
09-27-2009, 12:37 PM
Republicans and Democrats=two sides of the same coin.

dr. hfn
09-27-2009, 12:39 PM
i'm doing the same!

teacherone
09-27-2009, 01:57 PM
Thanks for the support all!

Wish I got it from my family too...




Teach...

I love you so much, but I’d like you take me off your list when you send this stuff out. I disagree with you so vehemently, and seeing where your political and social thinking has gone makes me so depressed and angry that I’d just rather not see it.

Hope you all are doing well.

Love,
Big Sis...



oops!:eek: Gotta make some phone calls :eek:

Met Income
09-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Thanks for the support all!

Wish I got it from my family too...



oops!:eek: Gotta make some phone calls :eek:

Seeing facts makes her angry? De-programming is not easy.

dr. hfn
09-27-2009, 02:08 PM
Seeing facts makes her angry? De-programming is not easy.

lol o boy! you have alot of work to do!

Uriel999
09-27-2009, 02:09 PM
Seeing facts makes her angry? De-programming is not easy.

Seriously, you just showed the true face of Obama via those pesky things called facts and it angers her you showed her reality. Wow, at least I've made inroads with my neocon family.

dr. hfn
09-27-2009, 02:30 PM
buy your family some liberty books

Ninja Homer
09-27-2009, 02:44 PM
Nice job! If you want to send a follow up, here's another image you can use.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5525/nochange.jpg

tonesforjonesbones
09-27-2009, 02:48 PM
don't feel alone...my brother took me off his facebook, not that he disagrees with me , he's not an obama fan, but he prefers to remain in the dark. Some people really can not handle the truth, they get too depressed. tones

angelatc
09-27-2009, 02:53 PM
Thanks for the support all!

Wish I got it from my family too...



oops!:eek: Gotta make some phone calls :eek:

LOL! What exactly does she disagree with? If anything, it's her political thinking that has apparently changed.

Chester Copperpot
09-27-2009, 03:00 PM
dont forget to mention to them that bush and obama are cousins too

PBrady
09-27-2009, 03:10 PM
Great e-mail. I will definitely be passing it along.

Austrian Econ Disciple
09-27-2009, 03:23 PM
Nothing new. Remember the Civil War? Yeah....Liberty is more important than family, and it's sad it has to come down to this shit. Luckily I've also been making inroads with my family, who are somewhat in between neo-con and Old Right. They REALLY like Sarah Palin and whenever I mention Paul they go "Yeah, I agree with some stuff, but he has some kooky ideas.." Have them reading a few books right now, so hopefully they'll come around.

Needless to say if they knew my views, which are even more "radical" than Ron Paul's and more along the lines of Thomas Jefferson, George Mason, and Patrick Henry, I wonder what they would say. At least I know if the fighting ever started my family would be on my side (Most are Old Right). :p

Hopefully everything works out, and remember, Liberty above all is paramount. If we must fight brother on brother, family on family once again, well....that's the price of Liberty.

RCA
09-27-2009, 06:32 PM
You're not alone. I found out how socialist my family was in 2007 when I started campaigning for Ron Paul. Things haven't been the same since with them.

Jdreiner
09-27-2009, 06:50 PM
I come from a military family, and all of them are dependent on federal money, so do my grandaprents;my uncle is a welfare case; my aunts are dependent on local government for a living. They stick with the guy who butters their bread and just vote straight democrat every election cycle.

=(

NYgs23
09-27-2009, 07:39 PM
I try to avoid even discussing politics with my left-wing family. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It doesn't work and it annoys the pig."

Liberty_Tree
09-27-2009, 08:16 PM
Some people just can't handle the truth, until the SHTF.

Matthew Zak
09-27-2009, 08:25 PM
Thanks for the support all!

Wish I got it from my family too...



oops!:eek: Gotta make some phone calls :eek:

How can she "disagree" with facts? Grr. Good luck.

justinc.1089
09-27-2009, 09:30 PM
Teach...

I love you so much, but I’d like you take me off your list when you send this stuff out. I disagree with you so vehemently, and seeing where your political and social thinking has gone makes me so depressed and angry that I’d just rather not see it.

Hope you all are doing well.

Love,
Big Sis...


Isn't it disturbing how people just get mad when it comes to sharing FACTS with them about politics?

It seems like its only politics and religion people do that with too for some reason. I would just love to know the thought process going on in their mind. I mean they have got to understand facts when they see facts... right? And if they do why do they get SOOOO angry?

I mean why can't your sister talk to you about politics?

I wonder if tv has caused this personally because people today seem to just isolate themselves socially, spending hours listening to a tv instead of socializing with neighbors which would include political discussion obviously.

In other words instead of millions of people talking to millions of people we have millions of people listening to a handful of people from their tvs.

Thats the only thing I can think of myself to explain the bizarre behavior people show when you tell them simple facts about politics and/or economics.

ghengis86
09-27-2009, 09:33 PM
I try to avoid even discussing politics with my left-wing family. "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It doesn't work and it annoys the pig."

QFT

My familty doesn't bring up politics around me and I return the favor (though I always sprinkle in some libertarian knowledge on them when I can). I like to think they realize they're so ignorant that they don't want to even hear the truth for it will make them look like the fool to everyone. They probably just don't want to get into a heated discussion b/c they just phone it in and don't really believe the crap they've been fed.

RevolutionSD
09-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Nice job. Keep up the good work.

Epic
09-27-2009, 09:40 PM
How can somebody disagree with facts?

OP didn't even go into opinion, he just listed a bunch of facts with links.

torchbearer
09-27-2009, 09:42 PM
How can somebody disagree with facts?

OP didn't even go into opinion, he just listed a bunch of facts with links.

he should ask which facts they don't understand or need more proof to back?

BlackTerrel
09-27-2009, 10:09 PM
that photo sequence is pretty tight.

SimpleName
09-27-2009, 11:40 PM
he should ask which facts they don't understand or need more proof to back?

Yes indeedy. If they can't respond to that, well...they are simply j***offs. No offense to the OP's family. I'm sure they are great people. But j***offs nonetheless. :p

teacherone
09-28-2009, 04:52 AM
Thanks for all the supportive replies.

Yeah, I figured the best argument is always the truth. So instead of too much editorializing, just present the facts clear as day and hope for the best.

I am increasingly surprised how this doesn't work at all! I mean, my sister is seriously my hero-- I followed in her footsteps to Berkeley and studied English and foreign languages like she did. She is a brilliant woman but I think the cognitive dissonance is just too strong.

Obviously this isn't the first rant I've subjected my family to (and it won't be the last:D) so maybe this was the last straw. But you think they would at least argue the facts! Both my sisters were activists for Obama, so in "attacking" the man, I guess they themselves feel under attack and have to ignore or deny the truth because questioning their own actions and beliefs proves overwhelming.

I wonder which is easier? Converting a neo-con or an Obamabot. At least neo-cons already have the limited government thing down--they just get confused when war and civil liberties are brought up.

But Obamabots think that government can do no wrong, can solve all problems, and can never be big enough...

Oh well...let ya'll know how this turns out :)

teacherone
09-28-2009, 04:55 AM
couldn't get through...here's my email reply...


Teach
I love you so much, but I’d like you take me off your list when you send this stuff out. I disagree with you so vehemently, and seeing where your political and social thinking has gone makes me so depressed and angry that I’d just rather not see it.

Hope you all are doing well.

Big Sis



Big Sis,
I love you so much too! I actually believe that we agree more than we disagree, and that our political and social thinking are very much aligned. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are NOT for the funding of wasteful military invasions which kill foreign innocents and american soldiers, you are NOT for the dismantling of american civil liberties or the indefinite detention of foreigners on US military bases, and you are NOT for the continued institution of american corporate welfare. If the above is true, than we agree on all the facts I presented in my previous email sourced with verified news articles from the mainstream media.

If the above proved not to be true, and you did support all these things, then I would also be depressed and angry.

But I'm not, because I know, deep down, we are at complete agreement :)

Love you guys and can't wait to see you in December.
Teach

NYgs23
09-28-2009, 05:10 AM
Teacherone: Be careful not to push so hard you end up burning your bridges.

teacherone
09-28-2009, 05:15 AM
Teacherone: Be careful not to push so hard you end up burning your bridges.

Yeah... I know...Good advice...

My wife has now taken it upon herself to OK all my emails before sending them out.

I tend not to be diplomatic enough apparently :o

justinc.1089
09-28-2009, 08:41 AM
Try going more with a warming the water before you get it boiling approach. Thats how I always try with politics when talking to people because its how I got to my current political knowledge today.

If I had seen something like End Game, which I think is mostly true, I would have dismissed most of it as conspiracy theory non-sense. But I first saw Ron Paul talk about stuff in debates I agreed with, learned more about him and certain things he said I disagreed with, then I came to realize they were correct, then I learned about stuff like the Fed and the military industrial complex, and saw documentaries like Freedom to Fascism, then End Game which I was then ready enough to understand the reality of, and so on.

It seems easiest when we talk to people about politics to tell them the worst thing we can possibly think of that the government is doing, but the problem with that is that they will not want to believe it, and it reduces our credibility in their view about us. So its best to start with small facts and gradually build up to the entire truth of our situation.

In other words I suggest trying to send out an article about Obama increasing troops in Afghanistan or something. Don't send out information that is the equivalent of the Obama Deception until you have got them to start thinking "hmm maybe Obama's not that great afterall, he sure is making some mistakes." Then they will be ready to accept the truth that Obama is a corrupt criminal just like Bush.

If they were supporters of big bad O, its going to be a long, very gradual process to get them to accept the truth, if they ever will.

Deborah K
09-29-2009, 10:15 AM
I come from a military family, and all of them are dependent on federal money, so do my grandaprents;my uncle is a welfare case; my aunts are dependent on local government for a living. They stick with the guy who butters their bread and just vote straight democrat every election cycle.

=(

Welcome. You have a family here. You definitely have a tough row to hoe. But you can do it. Little by little. There is an abundance of good information here that you can use to slowly try to reach them. Every person is different and has to be handled according to their own paradigms. It's like walking a tightrope and it can be exhausting and disheartening but you can do it.

Deborah K
09-29-2009, 10:24 AM
Thanks for all the supportive replies.

Yeah, I figured the best argument is always the truth. So instead of too much editorializing, just present the facts clear as day and hope for the best.

I am increasingly surprised how this doesn't work at all! I mean, my sister is seriously my hero-- I followed in her footsteps to Berkeley and studied English and foreign languages like she did. She is a brilliant woman but I think the cognitive dissonance is just too strong.

Obviously this isn't the first rant I've subjected my family to (and it won't be the last:D) so maybe this was the last straw. But you think they would at least argue the facts! Both my sisters were activists for Obama, so in "attacking" the man, I guess they themselves feel under attack and have to ignore or deny the truth because questioning their own actions and beliefs proves overwhelming.

I wonder which is easier? Converting a neo-con or an Obamabot. At least neo-cons already have the limited government thing down--they just get confused when war and civil liberties are brought up.

But Obamabots think that government can do no wrong, can solve all problems, and can never be big enough...

Oh well...let ya'll know how this turns out :)

For me it's been easier to convert neo-cons because they didn't vote for Obama. Sounds like your family is definitely experiencing cognitive dissonance. I remember how I felt. I am still experiencing cognitive dissonance about certain issues like drug legalization and Lincoln to name a couple things. Be patient.

My latest strategy in reaching people is to get them interested in preparing for a natural or man-made disaster. Most people can get behind that idea. Lots of natural disasters lately, and this economic depression is feeling more and more like the Great Depression so it's easy to make comparisons and to talk about what people went through then as a way to get people to prepare today. It's a good way to guide them into the freedom movement.

Promontorium
09-30-2009, 05:03 AM
I spent 6 years trying to get my dad to accept that homosexuals should be able to marry.
He wasn't specifically against marriage in name, but against homosexual relationships altogether, and he's much more Libertarian than anything else.

6 years. I tried. and failed. Then, on his own, a year or two ago, he decided that since gay people don't have a choice in sexuality, it is evil to force them into their current position.

I'm not saying persistence pays off. I'm actually saying the opposite. Sure do try, but then leave it be. They will or they won't.

Funny enough, my much more old fashioned nearly 80 year old grandparents expressed anger when Prop 8 passed.

teacherone
12-03-2009, 06:17 AM
email I sent out

Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss

http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/bush1.jpg



Quote:
The criticisms of G.W. Bush were many: He started illegal and wasteful wars, he was a repeated violator of civil liberties, he manipulated the American public's emotional response of fear in order to achieve his objectives, he subsidized and favored corporations over the needs of the people.


These criticisms were and remain accurate, and during his tenure a large faction of the American public vehemently and sometimes violently opposed and protested the actions of their government, a government many felt no longer served their interests, and was causing more harm than good.


Then, with the election of Barack Obama many felt hope that something would change. How could they not? The media proclaimed that this was an election about change. One couldn't turn one's head without seeing the words over and over and over : "BELIEVE" "CHANGE" "HOPE"...


Suddenly and like magic the public anger dissipated. Anti-war protests once numbering in the tens, if not hundreds of thousands disappeared. Shame and rage transformed to pride and tranquility. The people believed that change had occured.


Has it? You decide. (Friendly tip from your ranter---> Click the links for more information

Barack Obama is increasing the US presence in Iraq by replacing soldiers leaving for Afghanistan with even larger numbers of private military contractors. He is increasing the US miliary presence in Afghanistan including 700 members of the CIA. He is ordering drone missile attacks on villages in Pakistan. He is threatening sanctions backed by force against Iran. He is building military bases in Colombia to counter the presumed threat from Hugo Chavez. And the US once again leads in foreign weapon sales.


He is calling on Congress to reauthorize the Patriot Act, the act for which as a senator he originally voted YEA. He is continuing the policy of indefinite detention without charge or trial. He is allowing the policy of "anti-terror" rendition to continue. His justice department is claiming "state secrets" in trials against two american lawyers who were illegally wiretapped. And two weeks ago, "the Obama DOJ -- as expected -- filed a legal brief (.pdf) which adopted the arguments originally made by the Bush DOJ to insist that detainees whom they abduct from around the world and then ship to Bagram (rather than Guantanamo) lack any constitutional rights whatsoever, including habeas review".

Just as the "Terror Alert" would move to Orange anytime Bush wanted Congress to fund his wars, as congress was debating to reauthorize the Patriot Act last week, suddenly there were terror threats everywhere: in New York , in Dallas, in Virginia , in Illinois. Suddenly Iran had a super-top-secret-nuclear- facility-that-we've known about for years. The fear card was played once again. And once again the drums of war drone on.


There is no need to detail the billions in corporate welfare that Barack Obama has handed out-- to the banking industry, the housing industry, and the auto industry. Just know that the next two industries to gladly receive your tax dollars are the energy industry (once cap and trade is passed) and the health insurance industry (once universal care is passed). Do not worry citizen, paying more to heat and power your home so that energy companies and banks can profit from the trade of carbon credits that they received for free from the government is purely in your own interest. As is being forced to purchase health insurance or face fines and jail time . This is solely to protect you and will no way benefit the health insurance industry brutally forced to accept millions of new paying customers, or the pharmaceutical industry, coincidentally now spending millions promoting Obamacare.


Clearly there is little or no difference between the policies of G.W. Bush or B.H. Obama, just as there is little or no difference between the Democratic or the Republican parties. In fact both parties work together and support each other in their efforts to confuse the american public into believing that they have a real choice when they vote. You see this confusion in the Left's protests, against War and for the Welfare State, and the Right's protests against the Welfare State and for War. They are trapped in a false LEFT-RIGHT paradigm and deliberately so. For if they were ever to wake up and discover, that no matter the party, their labor (their tax dollars) would be stolen from them to be handed over to connected elites, to build bombs and weapons of doom that kill and destroy... there might be a revolution.


For now though, the elites are safe. The American people have been pacified once again. The face has changed, the rhetoric has changed. And the WELFARE-WARFARE state marches on...unnoticed.

Love to all,
Teach

if you need some ammunition for the obamabots feel free to us this! the OP has all the links.

purplechoe
12-03-2009, 06:30 AM
http://www.geekologie.com/2008/11/05/obamabot.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v322/59/20/43100495/n43100495_30766480_9692.jpg

http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/obamabotsigns.jpg

http://wparena.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Obamabot.png

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t31/Mogloth/PinkyBrain.jpg

The Deacon
12-03-2009, 07:04 AM
As the Southern Avenger said on the Sarah Palin youtube, both Obama and Palin serve as a comfort blanket for cultural partisans.

zach
12-03-2009, 08:42 AM
The emotional response is a start.

jmdrake
12-03-2009, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the support all!

Wish I got it from my family too...



oops!:eek: Gotta make some phone calls :eek:

Hang in there! One friendly piece of advice. Email generally sucks as a was to change people who have closed minds. Not unless you're really careful in how you do it. Also I've found that it's easier when dealing with friends and family to attack Obama issues (health-care, global warming etc) than Obama himself. For a long time my wife would agree with me on every issue where I attacked Obama, but if I said the "O" word she'd get mad. What finally turned the corner? A sermon by a pastor she respected who had once supported Obama but then realized that Obama is a part of the same NWO conspiracy that was behind 9/11. I know people hate hearing this. But the conspiracy angle is the only way to reach certain people. But that card has to be played correctly. If someone already stuff about Bush not covered in the MSM they're more likely to see the Obama connection.

Here's something that helped wake up my cousin. She kept telling me that Obama "couldn't be that bad". I showed her the video of the police brutality that took place at the G20 summit int Pittsburg and asked why Obama, who was in attendance, had nothing to say about it. She didn't want to watch but I insisted that she did. (Something I couldn't do if I had just sent her an email). She did get a little defensive with the whole "Well what do you want me to do about it?" attitude. I was sympathetic, pointed out this is all overwhelming but as with anything knowing is half the battle. (Thanks G.I. Joe!)

Here's the video I'm talking about.

YouTube - G20 2009: Police Attack Students at University of Pittsburgh (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etv8YEqaWgA)

Good luck!

Regards,

John M. Drake

klamath
12-03-2009, 09:54 AM
email I sent out

Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss

http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/bush1.jpg


That was a very good letter. I think what happened is she totally dismissed the whole Email possible because of your stated privious other rants.:D She didn't even read this but saw the picture sequence and went ballistic:D

RevolutionSD
12-03-2009, 10:17 AM
Thanks for the support all!

Wish I got it from my family too...



oops!:eek: Gotta make some phone calls :eek:

This is all Big Sis can come up with? Wow. Sorry man, that's a pretty lame response from your Sis. I hope you have a discussion with her face to face. Because she gets "depressed" and "angry", it's obviously about more than politics to her. I would delve into these feelings of hers before trying to re-start the political debate. Why does she feel depressed and angry? This is very important, much more so than her support for Obama or your correct points about the system.

It's difficult, but the family stuff must be confronted. (I know and I'm dealing with many of the same issues you are...my parents & sis are all right wing fox news ppl and I get similar responses to what your sis sent).

RevolutionSD
12-03-2009, 10:25 AM
Isn't it disturbing how people just get mad when it comes to sharing FACTS with them about politics?

It seems like its only politics and religion people do that with too for some reason. I would just love to know the thought process going on in their mind. I mean they have got to understand facts when they see facts... right? And if they do why do they get SOOOO angry?

I mean why can't your sister talk to you about politics?

I wonder if tv has caused this personally because people today seem to just isolate themselves socially, spending hours listening to a tv instead of socializing with neighbors which would include political discussion obviously.

In other words instead of millions of people talking to millions of people we have millions of people listening to a handful of people from their tvs.

Thats the only thing I can think of myself to explain the bizarre behavior people show when you tell them simple facts about politics and/or economics.

Agreed.
Here's why: It's a family issue.

When people will not listen to reason and evidence, and want to continue believing in fantasies like Barack Obama, you have to get to why. Politics are a way of not dealing with one's emotions. People within families will do everything they can not to discuss emotions and feelings. This is where we get those stalemate political debates.

Stefan Molyneux has 2 entire books on this topic that I highly recommend:

On Truth, The Tyranny of Illusion
&
Real Time Relationships: The Logic of Love

Good discussion today!

Anti Federalist
12-03-2009, 10:36 AM
Obama: "We Did Not Ask for This Fight"
Bush: "We Did Not Seek This Conflict"

Obama: "New Attacks are Being Plotted as I Speak"
Bush: "At This Moment ... Terrorists are Planning New Attacks"

Obama: "Our Cause is Just, Our Resolve Unwavering"
Bush: "Our Cause is Just, Our Coalition [is] Determined"

Obama: "This Is No Idle Danger"
Bush: "The Enemies of Freedom Are Not Idle"

Obama: "We Have No Interest in Occupying Your Country"
Bush: "I Wouldn't Be Happy if I Were Occupied Either"

teacherone
12-03-2009, 11:19 AM
That was a very good letter. I think what happened is she totally dismissed the whole Email possible because of your stated privious other rants.:D She didn't even read this but saw the picture sequence and went ballistic:D

think you're right. should be more tactful. Christmas should be interesting!

teacherone
12-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Obama: "We Did Not Ask for This Fight"
Bush: "We Did Not Seek This Conflict"

Obama: "New Attacks are Being Plotted as I Speak"
Bush: "At This Moment ... Terrorists are Planning New Attacks"

Obama: "Our Cause is Just, Our Resolve Unwavering"
Bush: "Our Cause is Just, Our Coalition [is] Determined"

Obama: "This Is No Idle Danger"
Bush: "The Enemies of Freedom Are Not Idle"

Obama: "We Have No Interest in Occupying Your Country"
Bush: "I Wouldn't Be Happy if I Were Occupied Either"

awesomely sad.

dannno
12-03-2009, 11:56 AM
awesomely sad.

You can source that to Michael Moore's website when you send it to your family, that might help :confused:


http://www.michaelmoore.com/


Checkout this comment:


I guess I should have voted for Nader. I won't make the same mistake twice.
Nader or Kucinich for president. They are looking really good right now.
Heck, even Ron Paul looks attractive right now.


http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latest-news/obama-30000-more-troops-afghanistan-summer



All I know is your big sis needs to eat crow and learn to respect her younger brother enough to be able to converse with him ;)

georgiaboy
12-03-2009, 11:57 AM
^sweet.

georgiaboy
12-03-2009, 11:59 AM
when it comes to family, I've learned to let my views out there, but not try to beat it into them. They're all intelligent folks and can research just like I can. They know where I stand, and from there it's up to me to be their loving family member.

Fill their emotional bank accounts with real family love & support, and then hopefully you are eventually allowed opportunities to influence on deeper levels than you ever imagined.

CapitalistRadical
12-03-2009, 12:34 PM
I would lay low and back off if I were you. Give it a year or two. The facts will develop, and sink in slowly. If she's already uncomfortable, it's because she already suspects you are correct. She will come around!

teacherone
03-31-2011, 10:28 AM
bump

acptulsa
03-31-2011, 10:30 AM
bump

Don't bump it here. You have my permission to tell them all, 'I told you so.'

Chester Copperpot
03-31-2011, 10:32 AM
bump

What does your family think now.. since obama attacked libya>?

teacherone
03-31-2011, 10:32 AM
Don't bump it here. You have my permission to tell them all, 'I told you so.'

as much as i'm tempted to i've finally repaired the bridges.

there's no hope for change.... and i love my family despite our differences.

teacherone
03-31-2011, 10:33 AM
What does your family think now.. since obama attacked libya>?

lol...too scared to ask...

seriously.

we just avoid the topic and talk about other things... difficult.

acptulsa
03-31-2011, 10:36 AM
All in how you do it.

I was thinking about this today, and I just want to reiterate how sorry I am if I made anyone feel uncomfortable...

madfoot
03-31-2011, 10:55 AM
Yale Law profeessor: Obama "has more or less systematically adopted policies consistent with the second term of the George W. Bush Administration."

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/03/bradley-manning-barack-obama-and.html

s35wf
03-31-2011, 11:05 AM
LOVE those pics :)

jmdrake
03-31-2011, 11:08 AM
lol...too scared to ask...

seriously.

we just avoid the topic and talk about other things... difficult.

I understand. I really want to ask some of my family what they think of Obama appointing a Gitmo psychologist who passively witnessed torture to the "White House Task Force entitled Enhancing the Psychological Well-Being of The Military Family."

See: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/25/james

I know some are ready to hear that, and some aren't.

acptulsa
03-31-2011, 11:22 AM
I really want to ask some of my family what they think of Obama appointing a Gitmo psychologist who passively witnessed torture to the "White House Task Force entitled Enhancing the Psychological Well-Being of The Military Family."

We've already seen the liberal reaction to that.

RON PAUL IS TRYING TO NULLIFY TEH CONSTITUTION!!!11!!1!!!

SWATH
03-31-2011, 11:27 AM
Same shit, different color.

Anti Federalist
03-31-2011, 12:04 PM
Same shit, different color.

LoL

Cowlesy
03-31-2011, 12:11 PM
Thanks for the support all!

Wish I got it from my family too...



oops!:eek: Gotta make some phone calls :eek:

You're related to Janet Napolitano??? WTF!!