Obama wants to scrap summer vacation for students

[Dionysus]

They will learn you, whether you like it or not. Whether you're able or not. Whether you can do it more efficiently or not. Whether they destroy your natural curiosity or not.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school

[JeNNiF00F00]

lol will love to see how these Obamabots will handle this.

[Andrew-Austin]

Gotta make sure we crush their souls.

[amy31416]

Hmm, torn on this. The summer vacation is mostly a product of our old days as an agricultural society and I think it's pretty well-known that American kids could certainly use more education, especially in math and science.

[JeNNiF00F00]

Hmm, torn on this. The summer vacation is mostly a product of our old days as an agricultural society and I think it's pretty well-known that American kids could certainly use more education, especially in math and science.

True, but under the SYSTEM? Just more indoctrination.

[amy31416]

True, but under the SYSTEM? Just more indoctrination.

As I said, I'm torn. I'm all for it if it's more math, science, literature, etc. Obviously I'd have a big issue with more indoctrination.

[Light]

This is going to create some blowback among the young Obamabots in middle school...

[evilfunnystuff]

This is going to create some blowback among the young Obamabots...

ya i think we can get alot of mileage out of this even among alot of older folks

[squarepusher]

Hmm, torn on this. The summer vacation is mostly a product of our old days as an agricultural society and I think it's pretty well-known that American kids could certainly use more education, especially in math and science.

Amy, they are talking about adding ~300 hours of school time per year, and makes schools go until dinner time. The summer part is not really an issue where I live, they already have year round schooling (no massive summer break, rather evenly divided breaks).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year-round_school

So its not just about scheduling, its about adding a a huge amount of required school time also. It would be like your boss cutting your vacation time from 2 months, to 2 weeks.



I say all the more reason to home school, if you can get the same curriculum done in 2-3 hours at home, rather than 8 hours @ public school, makes it more worth it

[Original_Intent]

Hmm, torn on this. The summer vacation is mostly a product of our old days as an agricultural society and I think it's pretty well-known that American kids could certainly use more education, especially in math and science.

No I think our current situation shows a decided need for more focus on history.
Not SOCIAL STUDIES. History.

Think about why math and science are pushed so much. It's to make you more productive little worker bees. Why no emphasis on history? They don;t want people to understand history because they will be shown to be jsut the latest batch of tyrants and history shows that by and large government is NOT GOOD.

Why don;t they emphasize English? Can't have the drone communicating with each other too much, they might start thinking... most of the classical education - learning foreign languages, philosophy, etc. yes they may touch on them but what is always being pushed? Math and science.

[sarahgop]

year round indoctrination.

[LibertyWorker]

Looks like a good time to start a private school system thats affordable to the average family.

[squarepusher]

No I think our current situation shows a decided need for more focus on history.
Not SOCIAL STUDIES. History.

Think about why math and science are pushed so much. It's to make you more productive little worker bees. Why no emphasis on history? They don;t want people to understand history because they will be shown to be jsut the latest batch of tyrants and history shows that by and large government is NOT GOOD.

Why don;t they emphasize English? Can't have the drone communicating with each other too much, they might start thinking... most of the classical education - learning foreign languages, philosophy, etc. yes they may touch on them but what is always being pushed? Math and science.

whos history though? :(

[amy31416]

No I think our current situation shows a decided need for more focus on history.
Not SOCIAL STUDIES. History.

Think about why math and science are pushed so much. It's to make you more productive little worker bees. Why no emphasis on history? They don;t want people to understand history because they will be shown to be jsut the latest batch of tyrants and history shows that by and large government is NOT GOOD.

Why don;t they emphasize English? Can't have the drone communicating with each other too much, they might start thinking... most of the classical education - learning foreign languages, philosophy, etc. yes they may touch on them but what is always being pushed? Math and science.

The reason I didn't say history is because I know what I was taught in school that passed for history. Math and science improve logic, if they have that foundation, they're more capable of eking out the truth when it comes to history, current events, social sciences, etc. Philosophy and debate is another good way to promote logic.

I reject your premise that math and science are being taught to turn us into drones--some of the biggest radicals I've known are scientists, including many who support Ron Paul's ideas.

If you want to see a miserable person, take a (real) scientist and try to make him or her a cog in the system. Same with real philosophers--people who are taught to research and think are far less likely to become the yes-men/worker bees that you imagine.

[specsaregood]

As I said, I'm torn. I'm all for it if it's more math, science, literature, etc.

No amount of more schooling is going fix the core problem of parents not being involved in the teaching process. That is where it all starts.

I see this putting a crimp in family summer vacation plans....

[Original_Intent]

The reason I didn't say history is because I know what I was taught in school that passed for history. Math and science improve logic, if they have that foundation, they're more capable of eking out the truth when it comes to history, current events, social sciences, etc. Philosophy and debate is another good way to promote logic.

I reject your premise that math and science are being taught to turn us into drones--some of the biggest radicals I've known are scientists, including many who support Ron Paul's ideas.

If you want to see a miserable person, take a (real) scientist and try to make him or her a cog in the system. Same with real philosophers--people who are taught to research and think are far less likely to become the yes-men/worker bees that you imagine.

Hmm Maybe that is why I am so depressed all the time.

The reason I am so pro history right now is I found an old history textbook printed in the early 60s. World history from beginning of recorded time. Sure there was still some indoctrination, but it had to be done with w lighter hand than it is now because there were still people around that knew history.

Anyway, reading this history book from back then has been very enlightening to me - I think I have actually learned more than I did during all of my elementary, high school and college history classes. Really puts what is going on right now in perspective.

[kahless]

They want no other influence other than the indoctrination provided by the schools. Considering Obama's background I think he also wants it as a tool to clean up the inner city youth problems with the school system doing the job the absentee parent.

This thing with competing with other countries is BS.


Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).

[torchbearer]

I would have scrapped my summers if it meant I got out of school sooner.

[amy31416]

No amount of more schooling is going fix the core problem of parents not being involved in the teaching process. That is where it all starts.


Absolutely. I don't know what will solve that issue. How do you get people to care? And the ones who do care--how do you get them the education?


Hmm Maybe that is why I am so depressed all the time.

The reason I am so pro history right now is I found an old history textbook printed in the early 60s. World history from beginning of recorded time. Sure there was still some indoctrination, but it had to be done with w lighter hand than it is now because there were still people around that knew history.

Anyway, reading this history book from back then has been very enlightening to me - I think I have actually learned more than I did during all of my elementary, high school and college history classes. Really puts what is going on right now in perspective.

I love older books when it comes to history. One of my favorite things to do is to take several different sources on the same story and compare and contrast the different "spin" or angle on each telling.

My public school history education was abysmal, my college history education wasn't much better, even though the school I graduated from was private. The best part of my "liberal" education was my philosophy courses, I had a conservative-leaning philosophy professor who I actually learned a hell of a lot from.

[Krugerrand]

No amount of more schooling is going fix the core problem of parents not being involved in the teaching process. That is where it all starts.

I see this putting a crimp in family summer vacation plans....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school


Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents.

That makes poor children almost totally dependent on their learning experience at school, said Karl Alexander, a sociology professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University, home of the National Center for Summer Learning.

Disadvantaged kids, on the whole, make no progress in the summer, Alexander said. Some studies suggest they actually fall back. Wealthier kids have parents who read to them, have strong language skills and go to great lengths to give them learning opportunities such as computers, summer camp, vacations, music lessons, or playing on sports teams.

"If your parents are high school dropouts with low literacy levels and reading for pleasure is not hard-wired, it's hard to be a good role model for your children, even if you really want to be," Alexander said.

Basically, this guy is saying they are intentionally trying to get them away from their parents because they are a 'bad influence' on them.

[specsaregood]

Basically, this guy is saying they are intentionally trying to get them away from their parents because they are a 'bad influence' on them.

But he also says, "Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents. "

So it is a crucial time because of less involvement by the parents, yet the parents are a bad influence? So they want even LESS involvement by the parents. That doesn't compute...

[specsaregood]

//

[andrewh817]

Hmm, torn on this. The summer vacation is mostly a product of our old days as an agricultural society and I think it's pretty well-known that American kids could certainly use more education, especially in math and science.

But if what they're learning is not important it doesn't matter how well they learn it......the public school systems are not designed to let kids excel to the best of their ability. Not to mention HOW THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR THIS WHEN MANY SCHOOLS ARE BROKE AS IT IS!!!!

It's also funny that this issue is being brought up at a time when food prices are getting ready to skyrocket and home-agriculture will be the best way to prevent starvation and/or poverty. I can almost guarantee if this goes through, more kids will be dropping out than before AND at earlier ages.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Don't know. My mother was/is a teacher (one of the good ones). For years she taught 5th grade. The last line before middleschool and onwards. Many times she recommended holding a child back because they couldn't read past a 2nd grade level. Never once did the parent(s) fail to override her recommendation and pass the kid onto the 6th grade.

At the beginning (before she learned what the answer would always be) she would go and ask the child's 4th grade or 3rd grade teachers how the kid got to the 5th grade without knowing how to read and the story was always the same, the parent(s) didn't want the kid to be held back.....

I ended up repeating second grade. I don't think it was due to a teachers recommendation either. It corresponded to a change from public to private school.

If we are going to get any mileage out of the more school thing, the should probably reach out to some of these groups:

http://www.freechild.org/SNAYR/liberation.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youth_empowerment_organizations

-t

[amy31416]

But if what they're learning is not important it doesn't matter how well they learn it......the public school systems are not designed to let kids excel to the best of their ability. Not to mention HOW THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR THIS WHEN MANY SCHOOLS ARE BROKE AS IT IS!!!!

It's also funny that this issue is being brought up at a time when food prices are getting ready to skyrocket and home-agriculture will be the best way to prevent starvation and/or poverty. I can almost guarantee if this goes through, more kids will be dropping out than before AND at earlier ages.

Yet we're sending over 15 billion to Pakistan and mulling over military action toward Iran?

This money stuff just seems more and more like a complete illusion. I'd rather spend money educating kids than fucking up other countries.

So, calm down, I'm not your enemy. I was just speculating for the hell of it. There's absolutely no way that our government would spend a damn dime on something that would actually "help" American people--so if this were to go through, it would only be directed toward indoctrination and teaching kids how to be a good, unquestioning soldier, or build the arms that said soldiers will need.

[TGGRV]

The easiest way to keep the poor poor is to give them low standard education. The rich people do afford to pay another set of schooling through tutors and stuff anyway. It's been proven already. You really think Obama cares about the poor? lol. The poor getting poorer would mean his party is still needed.

[Dreamofunity]

I'm glad I'm out of mandated schooling.

[kahless]

Besides the indoctrination I think Obama cannot see that the inner city problems are the inner city problems. They are local to every city so you do not mandate a blanket policy for the entire nation because of a local problem to various inner cities.

This is similiar to the "Married to the State" thread posted earlier. The majority of parents take care of their children even after divorce. Just because you have a small percentage of dead beats should not have created a system that penalizes the majority of parents.

[Matthew Zak]

As a school bus driver I would not be opposed to this simply because I'd get year round work. However, as a former child, and government hater that I am, I don't think the government should be poisoning kids minds, either. :mad:

[revolutionisnow]

So the solution is quantity over quality? This guy never seems to run out of bad ideas. I also wonder how this would kill the summer tourism industry.

[BuddyRey]

My kid sister's Facebook friends are totally incensed over this. I'm taking the opportunity to bring a little bit of the libertarian message into their lives! ;-)

[stilltrying]

As I said, I'm torn. I'm all for it if it's more math, science, literature, etc. Obviously I'd have a big issue with more indoctrination.

Its all indoctrination. http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/ Why not let your kids natural curiosity at homeschool be their education. Math, science, literature, its all useless garbage if its not used. So yea I took and passed Buisness Calc and Finite Math. Am I using it today, no, therefore useless garbage, time and money. Say your kid wants to design furniture obviously you would include math in your instruction, include english in your instruction (make them write out detailed building instructions and why with math included). Sure I believe in classical education but we are nowhere near teaching independent thought without grades. Socratic method in public schools - good luck. Public schooling replaces you with STATE. If we actually mentored our kids we would we would be that much smarter ourselves.

[qh4dotcom]

Hmm, torn on this. The summer vacation is mostly a product of our old days as an agricultural society and I think it's pretty well-known that American kids could certainly use more education, especially in math and science.

It's a no-brainer...you don't need to be "torn"...where in the Constitution does it say that the president has the authority to require children to "get more education"?

[qh4dotcom]

My kid sister's Facebook friends are totally incensed over this. I'm taking the opportunity to bring a little bit of the libertarian message into their lives! ;-)

What did they think about Obama before this happened?

[ClayTrainor]

How can 1 small group of people in washington make a decision that effects all students in america? Thousands of schools, thousands of teachers, millions of students.

Tyranny, anyone?

[TastyWheat]

I do think Summer vacation is kind of a silly thing. Three contiguous months off so kids forget everything in between? It makes almost no sense. I wanted to get into a year-round school when I was a kid, where you get more, shorter breaks throughout the year (never got into one though). Studies have shown that studying for too long continuously has a detrimental effect so it could stand to reason that more breaks would be beneficial. However, considering the quality of additional education they'd be receiving I can't say I wholeheartedly support this idea.

[ghengis86]

So the solution is quantity over quality? This guy never seems to run out of bad ideas. I also wonder how this would kill the summer tourism industry.

Law of unintended consequences, anyone?

[SimpleName]

As I said, I'm torn. I'm all for it if it's more math, science, literature, etc. Obviously I'd have a big issue with more indoctrination.

I could understand this if it weren't on this forum. I'm sure you know the history of public schooling by now. The more there is, the more it costs, the stupider kids get. This is ONLY an attempt to brainwash children even more. And this administration especially knows how well brainwashing has paid off. This makes me sick. Eliminating summer vacation would only make kids more stressed and more angry, especially the transitioning ones in school if it were to occur.

EDIT: Didn't see it after first skim of the article, but what about that innocent part about the girl's summer school course that raised her grades. Does anybody know the difference between motivated and unmotivated people? Anybody motivated enough will raise their grades no matter the case. Those who aren't motivated, well...they'll just be angry their prison sentence is extended

[mtj458]

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea. Summer should at least be shortened by a couple of weeks, kids don't need 3 months off for vacation. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most of these Asian countries that are zipping by us spend a lot more time in school then we do.

One of the main arguments you guys make is that they spend more time under "the system" but whether they spend 9 or 10 months under the system probably won't make a difference as far as how brainwashed they get. They'll just get some more education which they could probably use.

[JeNNiF00F00]

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea. Summer should at least be shortened by a couple of weeks, kids don't need 3 months off for vacation. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most of these Asian countries that are zipping by us spend a lot more time in school then we do.

One of the main arguments you guys make is that they spend more time under "the system" but whether they spend 9 or 10 months under the system probably won't make a difference as far as how brainwashed they get. They'll just get some more education which they could probably use.

I disagree. If 9-10 months under the system wont make a difference in terms of indoctrination, then why would it make a difference in what they were learning? Don't they go hand in hand??

[Captain Bryan]

So the solution is quantity over quality? This guy never seems to run out of bad ideas. I also wonder how this would kill the summer tourism industry.

First thing that came to my mind. The economy is going to take a hit from this. I work at an arcade, and I know this would wreck us.
Second thing? He really wants to be a one term president.
4 years down the road a lot of these kids are going to be 18. A lot of them are going to be annoyed with year round schooling. Most of them will remember why they have year round schooling.

This won't pass though.

[NYgs23]

The current education "system" is nothing more than a 12 year prison sentence for children. It teaches little of value and most of what it does teach is not retained by the students. People today are not seeking jobs until their mid-twenties and by then it is very difficult to find entry into the workforce.

Anyway, I'm glad Obama wants to lose the support of every single American between the ages of 5 and 18.

[NYgs23]

I'm all for it if it's more math, science, literature, etc. Obviously I'd have a big issue with more indoctrination.

Honestly, I don't see how most of the stuff they cover in any of those subjects is particularly useful in helping a person become a functioning member of society. In a free society, education would be about whatever people needed to live what they would consider a fulfilling life. How many adult people actually use what they learned in school about the difference between sine and cosine in trigonometry, electron shells in science, or the themes of MacBeth? How many remember it? Some people may be interested in that stuff (I, personally, find literature very interesting) and some people in specialized disciplines may use it, but in terms of worthwhile knowledge, how to balance a checkbook, perform routine car maintenance, or answer questions in a job interview are far more useful. But I hardly see the schools focusing on that stuff.

Though it's only speculation, I would contend that in a free society, there would be much less formal schooling than there is now. Most people learn what they really need to know through childhood play and through working and learning on the job. Children would probably be working and actually doing something productive from a young age, rather than spend time cooped up in a classroom being drilled on stuff they don't care about. I think formal schooling would be relegated to older children and young adults who are really interested in higher learning and who have the means to fulfill that interest. Parents could teach their kids the "three r's" themselves or form small groups to hire someone (maybe an older teenager) to teach that stuff. Relatively informal religious classes might also play a role. But this situation where blackboards, bells, and tests are the bulk of every person's life practically from the cradle until the age of 22 is, I think, very unnatural and damaging and wouldn't survive in a free society.

[Krugerrand]

Honestly, I don't see how most of the stuff they cover in any of those subjects is particularly useful in helping a person become a functioning member of society. In a free society, education would be about whatever people needed to live what they would consider a fulfilling life. How many adult people actually use what they learned in school about the difference between sine and cosine in trigonometry, electron shells in science, or the themes of MacBeth? How many remember it? Some people may be interested in that stuff (I, personally, find literature very interesting) and some people in specialized disciplines may use it, but in terms of worthwhile knowledge, how to balance a checkbook, perform routine car maintenance, or answer questions in a job interview are far more useful. But I hardly see the schools focusing on that stuff.

Though it's only speculation, I would contend that in a free society, there would be much less formal schooling than there is now. Most people learn what they really need to know through childhood play and through working and learning on the job. Children would probably be working and actually doing something productive from a young age, rather than spend time cooped up in a classroom being drilled on stuff they don't care about. I think formal schooling would be relegated to older children and young adults who are really interested in higher learning and who have the means to fulfill that interest. Parents could teach their kids the "three r's" themselves or form small groups to hire someone (maybe an older teenager) to teach that stuff. Relatively informal religious classes might also play a role. But this situation where blackboards, bells, and tests are the bulk of every person's life practically from the cradle until the age of 22 is, I think, very unnatural and damaging and wouldn't survive in a free society.

The goal of education has become somewhat ambiguous. (I see the problem more so at the college level than high-school.) Is it to simply develop the mind/person? Is it to prepare the person for society? Is it to prepare the person for employment? Is it to babysit children while their parents are at work? It is to keep a percentage of people out of the work force?

You can complain about useless material. But, some of that is to offer exposure to many areas so that people can discover areas of interest. Another benefit of otherwise useless trigonometry or MacBeth is that they challenge and develop the mind in different ways. So, perhaps you may never use that sine and cosine - but the brain needs to be exercised - and that will leave students better off.

[apropos]

somewhat ambiguous.

Only somewhat? From my observations, our entire educational system is an incoherent mash of factoids and stand-alone teachings. This includes the university system. It's the opposite of classical education.

[Pepsi]

They should make it were you have shorter school days and only go to school Monday-Thursday, and a longer summer vaction.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

Only somewhat? From my observations, our entire educational system is an incoherent mash of factoids and stand-alone teachings. This includes the university system. It's the opposite of classical education.

Quote for Truth.

They have lost the root.

[NYgs23]

You can complain about useless material. But, some of that is to offer exposure to many areas so that people can discover areas of interest.

Then how come they don't give equal time to knitting, fishing, chess, genealogy, public speaking, massage therapy, structural engineering, gardening, East Asian art...Is forcing people to spend years studying something they're not interested in a good way to "offer exposure"? It seems to me that people tend to seek out their own interests just fine. I'm interested in literature and my English classes introduced me to many works of literature I liked. But I could have joined a book club for that. Meanwhile, I had to sit through endless hours of math, which I never understood and always hated. My time studying algebra would have been better spent working as a retail clerk or a delivery boy, earning spending money and gaining job experience for the future.


Another benefit of otherwise useless trigonometry or MacBeth is that they challenge and develop the mind in different ways.

Forcing people into the government funded school system has not developed their minds; I'd trust the common sense of a Medieval peasant over many modern Americans. Individuals must be free to figure out that sort of thing on their own.

[NYgs23]

They should make it were you have shorter school days and only go to school Monday-Thursday, and a longer summer vaction.

One thing's for sure: only one man sitting in big fancy office should have the power to decide it for the rest of us.

[Pepsi]

One thing's for sure: only one man sitting in big fancy office should have the power to decide it for the rest of us.

in my senior year I only needed to go to school from Monday-Thursday.

[Brett]

He must not have enjoyed the rabid support he got from clueless young people.

[Dianne]

He wants the kids to be in school all year, so they can continue singing songs about how wonderful he is.

[Matthew Zak]

Then how come they don't give equal time to knitting, fishing, chess, genealogy, public speaking, massage therapy, structural engineering, gardening, East Asian art...Is forcing people to spend years studying something they're not interested in a good way to "offer exposure"? It seems to me that people tend to seek out their own interests just fine. I'm interested in literature and my English classes introduced me to many works of literature I liked. But I could have joined a book club for that. Meanwhile, I had to sit through endless hours of math, which I never understood and always hated. My time studying algebra would have been better spent working as a retail clerk or a delivery boy, earning spending money and gaining job experience for the future.



Forcing people into the government funded school system has not developed their minds; I'd trust the common sense of a Medieval peasant over many modern Americans. Individuals must be free to figure out that sort of thing on their own.

You're absolutely right.

When I was in highschool I had a difficult time concentrating on any of the classes they offered. I excelled in Art and Gym, and I did fairly well in reading, because those are the subjects I actually enjoyed. It wasn't until I found an appreciation for Algebra that I did well in Math. But when that turned into Geometry I lost interest. Having used my electives, and with nothing else to look forward to, I dropped out. Looking back, I can't remember anything I "learned" in highschool. My critical thinking came from my father, and with it I learned everything I need to know -- after I dropped out of highschool. I feel like an 18 year old (I'm 27). I wish the educational system wouldn't have failed me.

[Dianne]

My view is this will allow the government the opportunity for full indoctrination of our kids. Can you imagine children having no time with their parents, but yet being constantly taught how wonderful the new world order is... how great Obama and the administration are...

Remember this:

YouTube - School kids taught to praise Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqMTD5UFmU)

Obama must have heard the song and liked it... decided it would be a great idea to take kids away from their parents to sing these songs every day... 365 days a year.

With Obama and the Congress' best efforts to take down of our country; they need to turn the children into stepford wives and husbands.. What better way to do it than to keep them locked up.

And why does he continue meddling into affairs that are of no concern to him, nor within his scope of authority?

[Krugerrand]

Then how come they don't give equal time to knitting, fishing, chess, genealogy, public speaking, massage therapy, structural engineering, gardening, East Asian art...Is forcing people to spend years studying something they're not interested in a good way to "offer exposure"? It seems to me that people tend to seek out their own interests just fine. I'm interested in literature and my English classes introduced me to many works of literature I liked. But I could have joined a book club for that. Meanwhile, I had to sit through endless hours of math, which I never understood and always hated. My time studying algebra would have been better spent working as a retail clerk or a delivery boy, earning spending money and gaining job experience for the future.

Forcing people into the government funded school system has not developed their minds; I'd trust the common sense of a Medieval peasant over many modern Americans. Individuals must be free to figure out that sort of thing on their own.

Please don't take my comments as an endorsement of our current education system. I'm all for eliminating the public school system. At the same time, it's not bad for students to be forced to study something they don't want to - to a certain degree. If nothing else, it's practice for life.

[Krugerrand]

My first thought is that unions would never let this happen. Then, I started wondering if this isn't something intentional to force all contracts up for renegotiation.

[Epic]

GET OUT of government school...

give kids a more natural life where they can play most of the day in a natural way... kids should be roughhousing, playing sports, getting hurt, and tending to pets, not memorizing things and being locked in a cage 10 hours a day

[squarepusher]

My first thought is that unions would never let this happen. Then, I started wondering if this isn't something intentional to force all contracts up for renegotiation.

yes, you would have to raise teacher salary by 20-30% if they did this

[Bman]

They've been talking about changing the school year since I was in school over 15 years ago.

[JeNNiF00F00]

GET OUT of government school...

give kids a more natural life where they can play most of the day in a natural way... kids should be roughhousing, playing sports, getting hurt, and tending to pets, not memorizing things and being locked in a cage 10 hours a day

I agree. A lot of kids I see today don't know how to do any of this.

[Dionysus]

No matter how well-meaning the teachers, or how much they love kids, public school is a subsidized daycare center. They teach every child in the same pitiable way. It doesn't matter if your IQ is 80 or 150. And in the end, you're only allowed to know a lot about a very narrow slice of human knowledge, to prepare you for a lifetime of servitude. There are very few exceptions. Imagine Da Vinci in the US school system. We don't allow for extraordinary kids these days. Even the alternative schools tend to be crap, too artsy and spiritual and weird. Public schools are a machine to make everyone into a predictable commodity. Definitely needs some free-market help. I believe even the homeschoolers have to teach to a federalized, standardized curriculum?

[Southron]

There is only one solution-homeschool. Don't send your children to government schools. That is child abuse. And don't tell the feds you are doing it. Do you love money more than your family?

[dannno]

Bump cause I remember saying "I hate school" at least 10,000 times when I was younger and if I were still a kid I would suddenly be hating on Obama if I wasn't already..

[stilltrying]

Then how come they don't give equal time to knitting, fishing, chess, genealogy, public speaking, massage therapy, structural engineering, gardening, East Asian art...Is forcing people to spend years studying something they're not interested in a good way to "offer exposure"? It seems to me that people tend to seek out their own interests just fine. I'm interested in literature and my English classes introduced me to many works of literature I liked. But I could have joined a book club for that. Meanwhile, I had to sit through endless hours of math, which I never understood and always hated. My time studying algebra would have been better spent working as a retail clerk or a delivery boy, earning spending money and gaining job experience for the future.



Forcing people into the government funded school system has not developed their minds; I'd trust the common sense of a Medieval peasant over many modern Americans. Individuals must be free to figure out that sort of thing on their own.

Well said. I would take any 1800s school kid and compare them to todays kid in proper english and non calculator math over most kids nowadays if i were in a bet.

[BuddyRey]

What did they think about Obama before this happened?

To my knowledge, most of them are apolitical. But her school is also in a little rural town where Obama isn't popular at all.