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heavenlyboy34
09-26-2009, 11:51 AM
Wabash Valley woman didn’t realize second cold medicine purchase violated drug laws (http://www.tribstar.com/local/local_story_246225916.html)

CLINTON — When Sally Harpold bought cold medicine for her family back in March, she never dreamed that four months later she would end up in handcuffs.

Now, Harpold is trying to clear her name of criminal charges, and she is speaking out in hopes that a law will change so others won’t endure the same embarrassment she still is facing.

“This is a very traumatic experience,” Harpold said.

Harpold is a grandmother of triplets who bought one box of Zyrtec-D cold medicine for her husband at a Rockville pharmacy. Less than seven days later, she bought a box of Mucinex-D cold medicine for her adult daughter at a Clinton pharmacy, thereby purchasing 3.6 grams total of pseudoephedrine in a week’s time.

Those two purchases put her in violation of Indiana law 35-48-4-14.7, which restricts the sale of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, or PSE, products to no more than 3.0 grams within any seven-day period.

When the police came knocking at the door of Harpold’s Parke County residence on July 30, she was arrested on a Vermillion County warrant for a class-C misdemeanor, which carries a sentence of up to 60 days in jail and up to a $500 fine. But through a deferral program offered by Vermillion County Prosecutor Nina Alexander, the charge could be wiped from Harpold’s record by mid-September.

Harpold’s story is one that concerns some law-abiding citizens who fear that innocent people will get mistakenly caught in the net of meth abuse roundups.

But the flip side of the story comes from the law enforcement arena, which is battling a resurgence in methamphetamine production in the Wabash Valley.

As the 12th-smallest county in the state, Vermillion County ranked as the state’s fifth-largest producer of methamphetamine just a few years ago.

“I don’t want to go there again,” Alexander told the Tribune-Star, recalling how the manufacture and abuse of methamphetamine ravaged the tiny county and its families.

While the law was written with the intent of stopping people from purchasing large quantities of drugs to make methamphetamine, the law does not say the purchase must be made with the intent to make meth.

“The law does not make this distinction,” Alexander said.

If the law said “with intent to manufacture methamphetamine,” no one could be arrested until it was proven that the drug actually was used to make meth, the prosecutor said.

And that certainly wasn’t the intent of the law, either. It was written to limit access to the key ingredient in meth — pseudoephedrine — and thereby to stop the clandestine “mom and pop” meth labs that were cooking drugs throughout the area.

Just as with any law, the public has the responsibility to know what is legal and what is not, and ignorance of the law is no excuse, the prosecutor said.

“I’m simply enforcing the law as it was written,” Alexander said.

Pharmacies post “Meth Watch” signs, alerting customers that their purchases of drugs containing ephedrine and pseudoephedrine are being monitored. Pharmacies also are required to submit a list of purchase records to police, who then examine the lists for violations of the law.

It is up to customers to pay attention to their purchase amounts, and to check medication labels, Alexander said.

“If you take these products, you ought to know what’s in them,” she said.

While many people know that Sudafed, Actifed and Claritin-D contain pseudoephedrine, there are many more over-the-counter medications that also contain the key meth ingredient.

Ron Vencel, a pharmacist with JR Pharmacies in Terre Haute, said consumers should check all drug labels, and notes that any drug that has a “D” after it, for “decongestant,” has a likelihood of containing pseudoephedrine, or PSE.

Vencel has worked with area police to help curb the sale of over-the-counter pseudoephedrine to people buying it as a meth ingredient, and he offered insight into some of the purchasers.

As authorities and retailers have limited the sale of PSE, some meth-makers have resorted to asking their relatives and friends, who are unaware of the intended use of the product, to go buy the cold medicine. That has put some innocent people unwittingly into the cycle of meth production. And a buyer may call five or six different people to go buy the cold medicine, thereby circumventing the law.

Harpold, who is employed at the Rockville Correctional Facility for women, feels her reputation has been damaged by the arrest, and that she has been wrongly labeled as someone who makes meth.

Her police mug shot ran on the front page of her local newspaper, she wrote, in a letter to the Tribune-Star, “with an article entitled, ‘17 Arrested in Drug Sweep.’”

“That is something I have never been involved in,” she said of meth.

When she told her co-workers about the arrest, she said, they could not believe it. They have been supportive of her, she said, and other friends in the community have tried to help stop the misinformation that has spread because of the arrest.

The morning she was arrested, Harpold and her husband were awakened by police officers banging on the front door of their home at Midway along U.S. 36. She was allowed to get dressed, and was then taken in handcuffs to the Clinton Police Department, where she was questioned about her cold medicine purchases. She was later booked into jail, and her husband had to pay $300 bail to get her released.

Harpold said she did go talk to the prosecutor about the situation, and Alexander offered her the deferral program, in which Harpold is required to pay the court costs, abide by all laws and not be arrested for 30 days. At the end of 30 days, the class-C misdemeanor will be erased from her record.

Alexander said she is working with Harpold about the charge, but the prosecutor asserts that Harpold did break the law with her purchases and is being held accountable.

“I do want people to know that we will check the pharmacy records and we will prosecute people who violate this law,” Alexander said.

Vermillion County Sheriff Bob Spence said he also is willing to help Harpold overcome the negative situation.

“If there’s any way we can help her, we will,” Spence said.

He explained that the process leading to Harpold’s arrest involved an officer checking area pharmacy purchase records, and coming up with about 40 purchases that violated the law.

That information was then taken to the prosecutor, whose staff drew up the probable cause affidavits to be filed in court. A judge then found probable cause and issued arrest warrants, and the sheriff’s department is required by statute to see that the warrants are served.

Harpold was not arrested by Vermillion County officers, Spence stressed, since her residence is in Parke County. But she was returned to Clinton where she was questioned and processed.

Spence agreed with pharmacist Vencel’s scenario that the people making the meth often send other people to buy the medicine. And Vigo County Sheriff Jon Marvel, who recently renewed efforts to track pseudoephedrine sales in the Wabash Valley, understands Harpold’s arrest is embarrassing for her.

“Sometimes mistakes happen,” Marvel said. “It’s unfortunate. But for the good of everyone, the law was put into effect.

“I feel for her, but if she could go to one of the area hospitals and see a baby born to a meth-addicted mother …”

For now, Harpold is hoping to raise public awareness so others will avoid the stress she is going through. She has written to state lawmakers and to U.S. Sens. Richard Lugar and Evan Bayh and Congressman Brad Ellsworth about changing the law.

So far, only Lugar has responded to her letter, she said, but she will continue to pursue the issue.

“I just don’t want this to happen to other people.”

torchbearer
09-26-2009, 11:57 AM
I wonder if this woman was a supporter of the war on drugs before making this purchase and if he opinion has changed afterwards.

angelatc
09-26-2009, 12:03 PM
Oh well. Of course, I don't know her, but she's exactly the type of person who supports the police state and this police state insanity, then gets surprised to find out that apathy has consequences.

heavenlyboy34
09-26-2009, 12:06 PM
Oh well. Of course, I don't know her, but she's exactly the type of person who supports the police state and this police state insanity, then gets surprised to find out that apathy has consequences.

it makes one wonder how many innocent people have to suffer before the masses revolt. :confused:

amy31416
09-26-2009, 12:21 PM
Exactly how did the authorities know what she purchased and when?

torchbearer
09-26-2009, 12:30 PM
Exactly how did the authorities know what she purchased and when?

pharmacies are force by federal law to keep track of those sales.
in louisiana, i know they keep those types of "OTC" medicines behind the counter.
The pharmacist ratted her out. She should sue him.

dannno
09-26-2009, 12:31 PM
Well at least we don't have a meth problem in this country, I'm glad these laws are working :confused:

angelatc
09-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Exactly how did the authorities know what she purchased and when?

I believe it's federal law now that the cold medications containing pseudoephedrine be kept behind the counter, and you have to show ID and sign a form to purchase them.

It's a total pain in the butt. When you live in a 4 person family, and 4 people have colds, 1 bottle of cold medication and/or cough syrup won't freaking last 2 days, much less a whole week.

Sigh. Ron Paul for President!

angelatc
09-26-2009, 12:36 PM
Well at least we don't have a meth problem in this country, I'm glad these laws are working :confused:

I'd be curious to see if the law has had any effect at all on meth production. The fact that LE isn't braying about the success leads me to believe it hasn't.

torchbearer
09-26-2009, 12:38 PM
I'd be curious to see if the law has had any effect at all on meth production. The fact that LE isn't braying about the success leads me to believe it hasn't.

It hasn't, in fact, there is an even easier way to make meth using a 2 liter bottle. No kitchen setup required.
I guess they will outlaw 2 liter bottles now.

Warrior_of_Freedom
09-26-2009, 12:40 PM
don't pay with a credit card, no problem

pcosmar
09-26-2009, 03:28 PM
don't pay with a credit card, no problem

Actually you have to show ID and sign for it, even if paying cash.
My wife has allergies and has used these products for years.
This is a real PITA.

constituent
09-26-2009, 04:16 PM
I'd be curious to see if the law has had any effect at all on meth production. The fact that LE isn't braying about the success leads me to believe it hasn't.

It has, but not what you'd think. It is commonly accepted that since the enacting of these new laws, meth production has moved to more sophisticated labs (gasp) across the border. These labs use different methods altogether that produce huge quantities of better product. The stuff is super easy to get across the border too.

So what's happened is you've increased the quantity available on the market, and decreased the percentage of bad quality to good on the street.

However, it has taken what was once a highly decentralized supply chain and turned it over to the highly controlled, already existing organized criminal rackets.

The law of (un)intended consequences strikes again.

constituent
09-26-2009, 04:21 PM
e good of everyone, the law was put into effect.

“I feel for her, but if she could go to one of the area hospitals and see a baby born to a meth-addicted mother …”

What a sick pig.

Dr.3D
09-26-2009, 04:36 PM
Personally, I don't know why law enforcement is making such a big fuss about ephedrine.
It's not that hard to make it by processing sugar or cheaper molasses with
benzaldehyde.

james1906
09-26-2009, 04:36 PM
“Sometimes mistakes happen,” Marvel said. “It’s unfortunate. But for the good of everyone, the law was put into effect.

“I feel for her, but if she could go to one of the area hospitals and see a baby born to a meth-addicted mother …”



http://media.pegasusnews.com/img/categories/HelenLovejoy_t630.jpg

torchbearer
09-26-2009, 04:38 PM
Personally, I don't know why law enforcement is making such a big fuss about ephedrine.
It's not that hard to make it by processing sugar or cheaper molasses with
benzaldehyde.

how do you make Benzaldehyde?

Dr.3D
09-26-2009, 04:47 PM
how do you make Benzaldehyde?

I'm not going to go into all that, but you can read about some ideas here.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57622

All law enforcement is doing is making those who would make meth, be a bit more creative.

torchbearer
09-26-2009, 04:57 PM
I'm not going to go into all that, but you can read about some ideas here.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57622

All law enforcement is doing is making those who would make meth, be a bit more creative.

is this comment correct?

bitter almond oil is about 90% benzaldehyde all thats needed is fractional distilation allso it can be turned to ephedrine by using yeast and molasses i dont think that 10% impurity would matter and you could use just bitter almond oil i hate to say this but try festers book it has the complete reaction and i know some one that followed it and it does work try getting benzaldehyde from auction web sights (you know witch one)

amy31416
09-26-2009, 06:06 PM
is this comment correct?

Fractional distillation of bitter almond oil--yes. The other part about turning it into ephedrine via fermentation, I don't know.

The best chemistry books are old ones. Since the drug war, 9/11 etc. they've stopped putting a lot of methods into textbooks/lab manuals.

torchbearer
09-26-2009, 06:10 PM
Fractional distillation of bitter almond oil--yes. The other part about turning it into ephedrine via fermentation, I don't know.

The best chemistry books are old ones. Since the drug war, 9/11 etc. they've stopped putting a lot of methods into textbooks/lab manuals.

I took a lil' organic chemistry in college.
In high school, a nun taught us how to make wine.

MDMA was very complicated. At least to me.
Meth seems like it would be very easy to make.

the fermentation fits with what has been said previously, but i don't know what reactions are going on... so on that- i'm ignorant.

Dr.3D
09-26-2009, 06:28 PM
I thought this was pretty interesting. ( I don't make illegal stuff but if I wanted to, I think I would look into this one.)

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/clandestine/methylamine/index.html

Dr.3D
09-26-2009, 06:39 PM
I took a lil' organic chemistry in college.
In high school, a nun taught us how to make wine.

MDMA was very complicated. At least to me.
Meth seems like it would be very easy to make.

the fermentation fits with what has been said previously, but i don't know what reactions are going on... so on that- i'm ignorant.

This page might help explain the reactions.
http://old.iupac.org/publications/pac/1997/pdf/6911x2371.pdf

LibForestPaul
09-26-2009, 09:43 PM
It has, but not what you'd think. It is commonly accepted that since the enacting of these new laws, meth production has moved to more sophisticated labs (gasp) across the border. These labs use different methods altogether that produce huge quantities of better product. The stuff is super easy to get across the border too.

So what's happened is you've increased the quantity available on the market, and decreased the percentage of bad quality to good on the street.

However, it has taken what was once a highly decentralized supply chain and turned it over to the highly controlled, already existing organized criminal rackets.

The law of (un)intended consequences strikes again.

So, win-win, good!

RyanRSheets
09-28-2009, 09:48 AM
Well now I know not to cross the river when making drug purchases lol

This is nuts...

XNavyNuke
09-28-2009, 08:01 PM
The pharmacist ratted her out. She should sue him.

According to the prosecutor (in her letter to the editor (http://www.tribstar.com/letters/local_story_253170047.html) taking exception to the negative coverage), she says:


And, even though you disagree with my handling of this case, the public should know that our law enforcement officers review the pharmacy records approximately every 45-60 days, and I will continue to prosecute anyone who violates this law.

She seems to be quite the "ladder climber", probably fast-track material to become States Attorney General.


However, if you study the history of the many attempts by law enforcement to control the sale of ephedrine (especially the product Sudafed) you will find that the pharmaceutical companies fought long and hard against any restrictions on these products. It is very difficult to get an industry which is in the business of selling a product for a profit to do anything which adversely affects the number of sales.

Those EVIL pharmaceutical companies! They shouldn't be making medicine, let alone PROFITING from it!:eek:

XNN

XNavyNuke
09-28-2009, 08:09 PM
it makes one wonder how many innocent people have to suffer before the masses revolt. :confused:

Considering William Fousse (p://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/29/but-at-least-no-one-does-meth-anymore/) was first nailed two years ago, I wouldn't hold my breath on an uprising. Most people are perfectly happy believing that others will do what is best for them.:rolleyes:

XNN

KCIndy
09-28-2009, 08:36 PM
Sounds to me like it's a case of hyper-zealousness on the part of some backwater, "wanna-make-it-big-time" prosecutor.... Exactly the type who will toss grandma under the bus if it gets them a little extra publicity.

I'm frankly surprised I've not gotten nailed myself. I suffer from allergies and seasonal congestion, big time. Living in Indiana, I knew that it was illegal to buy more than one box of pseudoephedrine at a time, but I was unaware that there was a one week limit between purchases.

Maybe I'm just lucky, and the prosecutor in my county isn't the type of arrogant asshole who is prone to arrest little old ladies taking care of the family. :mad:

AgentOrange
10-04-2009, 08:53 PM
pharmacies are force by federal law to keep track of those sales.
in louisiana, i know they keep those types of "OTC" medicines behind the counter.
The pharmacist ratted her out. She should sue him.

The pharmacist probably did nothing of the kind. Police can and do go into any pharmacies and go through their pseudoephedrine records--no warrant needed. Since she had bought at 2 different pharmacies, it wouldn't make any sense that a pharmacist turned her in for a sole purchase. Rather, it was the police going through the records and matching up ID #'s (purchases are recorded by driver's license or state ID's or passport #'s)

I've read the same thing you have about the 2-liter method, this method requires much less pseudoephdrine than the older methods. AS ALWAYS with these kinds of laws, innocent people pay the price, while the criminals come up with new methods to skirt the law.

Anti Federalist
10-04-2009, 09:29 PM
What a sick pig.

Agreed.

I'm sick to death of crocodile tears spilling from cops eyes every time something like this comes up.

"If you had to see the accidents I've seen", "If you had to see the drug abuse", blah, blah, blah.

If a cop really cared about all those things, then he might be inclined to look objectively at what is causing these problems and come to the realization that heavy handed prohibitions cause many of the problems they claim to care about.

tmosley
10-04-2009, 09:51 PM
Interestingly enough, methamphetamine is present, along with numerous other psychoactive compounds, in acacia trees.

So watch your backs, botanists.

angelatc
10-04-2009, 09:55 PM
Interestingly enough, methamphetamine is present, along with numerous other psychoactive compounds, in acacia trees.

So watch your backs, botanists.

LOL! Like they could outlaw a plant.

:eek:

heavenlyboy34
10-06-2009, 03:00 PM
LOL! Like they could outlaw a plant.

:eek:


Actually, they do this already-marijuana, etc. :(:p:mad:

JeNNiF00F00
10-06-2009, 09:32 PM
LOL! Like they could outlaw a plant.

:eek:

Youre being sarcastic right? lol :)

angelatc
10-06-2009, 09:35 PM
Youre being sarcastic right? lol :)

Absolutely. Pot isn't the only banned plant. Certain poppies come to mind, and they were talking about banning a strain of coneflowers too.