CPS Child Theft...Advice and Moral Support!

[moostraks]

I have a problem teenager who thwarts authority and now stand between a rock and a hard place. For a year we have worked with the same doctor as she kept claiming she would not go home with us or she would kill herself (because we set limits) and we finally had them realize she was manipulating. They took her off her medication which never helped and formed a safety plan to check with us before admission to the hospital.

Enter the new trick, she would run away. Repeatedly. In OH there is no law for habitual runaway anymore (state funding issues) so no punishment from the legal end.

Well her latest deal was to demand I sign custody to the grandmother of (her words) her bi-sexual crackhead friend whe has been living with on the other side of the tracks. I said no...

So...she went to probate court and asked to be emancipated. They said you can't. So she asked to change guardianship and they gave her the paperwork...for our choice to sign.

So....she told them I told her to get a job and pay rent or I was kicking her out (not true). Enter CSB (also known as CPS in some states) She had a razor and had started cutting herself when she had run away (this is attention seeking she is not your typical cutter)(Henceforth the safety plan with the doctor and us as the rational decision makers we fought for acceptance as). They called us.

We were there in roughly 20 minutes to pick her up, but they didn't like dh's attitude on the phone since he was aggravated they were feeding her ego regarding the cuts without following through with their own previous caseworkers. CSB worker told the probate judge we'd be there when we got there, so she gave them custody.(10 minutes after he got off the phone)

CSB took her to the psych hospital. Same doctor we dealt with over 6 times decided we need to have her in foster care to see if she's manipulating.(????) They already know she is manipulating. She was expelled from school from the end of last year to the beginning of this year because of it. CSB dealt with her recently and closed the case because they knew she was manipulating. The psych ward drew up a paper (the safety plan) which says that she manipulates with her behaviour (cutting and suicide threats).

We have not neglected her or abused her. There aren't any allegations from CSB regarding abuse or neglect. They are taking her because she refuses to come home because she wants to be an adult and if she comes home she says she will kill herself. She has 14 months till she gets that priviledge but she insists she will have that NOW. The doctor said he wants to see if she is manipulating? She wasn't a threat risk to keep her, but give her a foster home? CSB put her in a homeless shelter for runaway teens. She has a home and parents who still will care for her and they put her in a homeless shelter as their better than home choice? They know she is manipulating, but tomorrow they will ask the judge for custody.

They want in our home but we refuse. DON"T EVER LET CPS IN YOUR HOME!!!!!! So they have found and end route by asking to give supervised custody as one of their three options. That is not an option....(THe other two were return without interference or full custody to CSB)

So do I sign away my daughter thus stating I am an unfit parent (remeber there are no abuse or neglect charges) and open the door for seizure of our other children here? Or do I agree to the supervised custody and allow CSB to moniter us and harass our children?

Advice PLEASE! Any thoughts? Thanks for anyone's patience to read this and please keep us in your thoughts tomorrow morning!!!

[forsmant]

Your child needs help. Does she do drugs or what are the root causes of the manipulating behavior? I might agree to the CBS just so she won't kill herself. No one, not even the state, wants that.

[Working Poor]

(((((moontracks))))))

I am sorry you are dealing with this stuff. If I were in your situation I would probably fight to keep her. It does sound like you are in a really hard place right now I will remember you and your family in my prayers tonight.

[amy31416]

Wish I had some advice for you, I don't. But I do wish you the best--sounds like a horrible situation.

[brandon]

Sometimes kids just really want to be indepedent.

I was a "problem teenager" too. I got expelled from like 3 different schools, arrested dozens of times, didn't listen to a word my parents said, and spent 6 months living in a juvenile detention facility.

The good news is I grew out of it and became a semi-responsible adult by my early 20's.

Sounds like at this point all yyou can really do is give your daughter some time to work out her issues by herself.

[moostraks]

Your child needs help. Does she do drugs or what are the root causes of the manipulating behavior? I might agree to the CBS just so she won't kill herself. No one, not even the state, wants that.

That's the kicker...she isn't going to kill herself. Everyone knows she is manipulating. This is a play by the state because we won't let them harass our other children and no one here has any better options. I have asked for them to intercede with juvenile justice and was told it won't apply to her case so she falls through the cracks until she is an adult.:(

[forsmant]

WHy is she acting this way? Is she on drugs?

[moostraks]

Sometimes kids just really want to be indepedent.

I was a "problem teenager" too. I got expelled from like 3 different schools, arrested dozens of times, didn't listen to a word my parents said, and spent 6 months living in a juvenile detention facility.

The good news is I grew out of it and became a semi-responsible adult by my early 20's.

Sounds like at this point all yyou can really do is give your daughter some time to work out her issues by herself.

That would be great except the options are to agree we are unfit or ask for supervised custody if option 2 is the decision. Our attorney wants to know what we decide by 8 am tomorrow. If I agree to relinquish custody to her the others are in jeopardy. I am screwed if they pick that option.:(

[Uriel999]

Hell maybe you should have beat your kid (just kidding). Spoiled little disrespectful emo brat. She wants to be an adult? Clearly her actions are those of a misfit child. Personally I suggest just keep fighting to keep her CSB be damned. Worst comes to worst, things get dragged out for a year, she becomes 18 and is no longer your responsibility...and hopefully down the line she will realize she was a immature brat who only harmed herself and that she was the problem, not you.

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, I'm only 25 and have never had kids. I hope things get better for you.

[moostraks]

WHy is she acting this way? Is she on drugs?

No. She is a spoiled, self-absorbed teenager who has attachment issues. She expects me to always catch her when she falls and wants me to be the punching bag when she doesn't get what she wants.

6 great children and 1 problem...

[forsmant]

Maybe its time to let her fall.

[moostraks]

Thanks for the sympathy folks. You all are the best...

Sometimes it just helps to know that someone on the outside hears you and tells you to get up and fight another day.

[moostraks]

Maybe its time to let her fall.

Like I told brandonyates The options are to agree we are unfit or ask for supervised custody if option 2 is the decision. Our attorney wants to know what we decide by 8 am tomorrow. If I agree to relinquish custody to her the others are in jeopardy. I am screwed if they pick that option...

[Deborah K]

Don't put your other children at risk. How old is she?

You know her best, how do you think you can reach her heart?

[constituent]

Sounds like at this point all yyou can really do is give your daughter some time to work out her issues by herself.

That's exactly right. What is she, 16 or 17?

Let her go, give her a year or two.

[constituent]

If I agree to relinquish custody to her the others are in jeopardy. I am screwed if they pick that option...

Guess that answers your question.

Also, stop posting about it online (sorry).

[moostraks]

Don't put your other children at risk. How old is she?

You know her best, how do you think you can reach her heart?

Well see the problem is if they pick option 2 and insist we choose letting them in our home to supervise with the stress and fear of constantly being on our toes to whatever they feel the right to complain about or forfit custody and then the other children can be taken based on relinquishing rights to the one child. I do not know a creative way to subvert that option.

It is idiotic anyway as she refuses to cooperate for any authority. She tried to kick in a police window several weeks ago. It has escalated enormously since we moved to Ohio and everyone believed her with her suicide threats. It took over nine months for them to see their error and now we are back to square one...

[moostraks]

Guess that answers your question.

Also, stop posting about it online (sorry).

No it doesn't answer my question. I posted for some advice because I am torn as to a creative argument regarding the options. And also for others to realize they can take your children even when you have committed no offense and the child is a habitual liar and every agency is aware of it in the county. That is messed up.

If it offends you then skip this thread, okay?

[constituent]

No it doesn't answer my question. I posted for some advice because I am torn as to a creative argument regarding the options. And also for others to realize they can take your children even when you have committed no offense and the child is a habitual liar and every agency is aware of it in the county. That is messed up.

If it offends you then skip this thread, okay?

Offended, I am not.

My advice is that you just remember, your words will be held against you.

IMO, when the law is involved, public statements are best kept limited.

...take it or leave it

I think you said you have a lawyer, right?



P.S. A "creative argument" will get you nowhere, and the people here, by and large, realize the situation with CPS (like organizations) nationwide.



...sorry if this seems insensitive, but it is what it is...

[CMoore]

I do not know much about your situation, so what I would suggest may not work. But my advice would be to cut your losses. Take your spouse and your other children and slip out in the dead of night and leave the state. Do this for the sake of your other children. Do not let the state get their hooks into you.

[agitator]

Don't sign anything.

[Baptist]

I do not know much about your situation, so what I would suggest may not work. But my advice would be to cut your losses. Take your spouse and your other children and slip out in the dead of night and leave the state. Do this for the sake of your other children. Do not let the state get their hooks into you.

This is pretty much along my lines of thinking.

Is this attorney one that you found on your own? Is he legit, or somebody the state hooked you up with? It it's the latter I'd drop him and find a good lawyer and ask him what to do.

If I were your husband, I would send you and the rest of the kids to visit family out of state until this gets situated. Then have your husband work with a good lawyer, telling him that you want to keep the other kids safe no matter what. If it means getting rid of her then so be it. If there is a way to make sure your kids are 100% safe, I'd go that route, even if it means that you lose her.

[Bman]

I think you should call Dr. Phil.

[Mini-Me]

To make things totally clear, simply emancipating your daughter is no longer an option, correct? If it were, I think it would be the best choice, because she is not listening to you willingly, and the state has apparently already decided to strip you of your parental authority anyway.

I totally agree with everyone here who says your other children must be given priority at this point. You seem to say your only options are "admitting" you are an unfit parent or allowing CSB to monitor your every move. Which one is more likely to result in your other children being kidnapped against your will and theirs? Are you SURE these are really your only options? Do both involve signing something stating your agreement to those terms? I'm no lawyer, but I agree with agitator that you shouldn't let the state coerce you into actually signing something you do not agree with. That indicates consent. As others said, you might want to consider taking your other children on an "extended vacation" out of state while your husband tries to sort out the legal mess (or vice versa if you're better than he is with this kind of thing). From my standpoint, that sounds like a valid third option, unless there's already some kind of injunction against you preventing you from doing that or if the CSB will then convince the CPS in another state to hound you...and unless I'm wrong, I'd expect any good lawyer to at least address the pros and cons of that option.

As constituent said, you should really be getting help from a lawyer for this, not from us...and frankly, the very fact that you're seeking counsel here indicates to me that your current lawyer isn't cutting it. As Baptist advised, if your current lawyer is state-appointed, try to get one who will actually represent your interests instead (if you can in any way afford one). Once you have a good lawyer, he/she should hopefully be able to help you beyond offering a mere choice between two signing sheets.

That said, take my opinion with a grain of salt. I'm not a parent, I'm not a lawyer, and I'm closer to your daughter's age than yours.

[angelatc]

I do not know much about your situation, so what I would suggest may not work. But my advice would be to cut your losses. Take your spouse and your other children and slip out in the dead of night and leave the state. Do this for the sake of your other children. Do not let the state get their hooks into you.

That would be my thought.

[TGGRV]

moostraks, this is sad. She's either manipulative or self-destructive.

Anyway, how can the state coerce you into signing anything? What will they do? Execute you if you don't sign? The family court and CPS systems are both frauds. They're paid by how many kids they take away from families or by how much money they extort out of the non-custodian parent. So as others said, the best option is to cut your losses because it is in their interest to steal your other children away from you. If the CPS can't reach you in another state, it is of utmost importance to get them out of state and handle this business without their ability to take them away. If you have relatives outside the US and they can reach you out of state, I would take them out of the US altogether.

Can't you pull a scheme like have a family member you can trust(like their grandparents or something) adopt them so that they can't take them away if you say you're an unfit parent? I realize how desperate this move is, but your lawyer seems bad. It's like a lawyer advising his client to take the death sentence and not appeal. If I would be you, I wouldn't sign either of their choices because I believe they would lead to the loss of the other children too.

If you don't agree with either of the terms, don't they have to take you to court?