4 police shot serving no knock warrant

[Rael]

4 NJ police officers shot serving search warrant
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Sep 24, 6:44 AM (ET)

LAKEWOOD, N.J. (AP) - Gunfire erupted as a police tactical squad executed a no-knock search warrant in a New Jersey suburb Thursday, leaving four officers and a suspect shot.
One Lakewood police officer who was shot in the face and another who was shot in the foot were taken to a hospital, Deputy Chief Michael Mohel of the Ocean County Prosecutor's Office said. Two others sustained minor injuries when they were struck in their bulletproof vests.
The suspect, Jamie Gonzalez, 39, was taken to a hospital with multiple gunshot wounds, Mohel said.
There was no word on their conditions and the names of the officers have not been released.
Police had planned to search the home in the town about 35 miles east of Trenton for narcotics and weapons, Mohel said.
The shooting comes more than two months after Jersey City police Det. Marc DiNardo was shot in the face storming an apartment where two armed robbery suspects were holed up. Four other officers were wounded in the gun battle and the suspects were killed.
DiNardo was taken off life support and pronounced dead one day before his 38th birthday.

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[Dr.3D]

Maybe some day cops will learn how to knock on the door.

[disorderlyvision]

serves em right

[s35wf]

Maybe some day cops will learn how to knock on the door.


Yeah, that might be a good idea ;)

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

serves em right

What? They had the search warrant, which is in the confines of the Constitution. They had reason to suspect these persons were armed, so they aren't going to knock and announce who they are, which creates additional unnecessary risk to both Officer and person being served.

Blind cop hatred is as bad as those who have blind faith in the Government.

You should really reflect on your statement.

(Just as an aside: I don't think the police should be in the business of restricting our 2nd amendment, nor our personal liberty, but most people who traffic in drugs and weapons usually have crimes outside of those two area's which I think should be legalized) In any event, they had a legal search warrant, so your comments are unwarranted.

[amy31416]

What? They had the search warrant, which is in the confines of the Constitution. They had reason to suspect these persons were armed, so they aren't going to knock and announce who they are, which creates additional unnecessary risk to both Officer and person being served.

Blind cop hatred is as bad as those who have blind faith in the Government.

You should really reflect on your statement.

(Just as an aside: I don't think the police should be in the business of restricting our 2nd amendment, nor our personal liberty, but most people who traffic in drugs and weapons usually have crimes outside of those two area's which I think should be legalized) In any event, they had a legal search warrant, so your comments are unwarranted.

Doesn't not knocking give the alleged criminals a defense in court though?

There was a recent case where cops broke into the wrong house, in a family with children, and the father shot at them thinking they were intruders. The cops almost killed him, got killed, put the kids at risk and had the wrong address. All in the middle of the night.

If they'd knocked, that could have easily been avoided.

[Dr.3D]

What? They had the search warrant, which is in the confines of the Constitution. They had reason to suspect these persons were armed, so they aren't going to knock and announce who they are, which creates additional unnecessary risk to both Officer and person being served.

Blind cop hatred is as bad as those who have blind faith in the Government.

You should really reflect on your statement.

(Just as an aside: I don't think the police should be in the business of restricting our 2nd amendment, nor our personal liberty, but most people who traffic in drugs and weapons usually have crimes outside of those two area's which I think should be legalized) In any event, they had a legal search warrant, so your comments are unwarranted.

So since they have a legal search warrant, they should just go around breaking down doors? It's one thing to search and another to break into someones home.

If they are so worried about the person having a gun, then maybe they should take the time to pick him up off of the street instead of breaking into his home.

There would always be plenty of time to search his home after he was being held.

[Bruno]

What? They had the search warrant, which is in the confines of the Constitution. They had reason to suspect these persons were armed, so they aren't going to knock and announce who they are, which creates additional unnecessary risk to both Officer and person being served.

Blind cop hatred is as bad as those who have blind faith in the Government.

You should really reflect on your statement.

(Just as an aside: I don't think the police should be in the business of restricting our 2nd amendment, nor our personal liberty, but most people who traffic in drugs and weapons usually have crimes outside of those two area's which I think should be legalized) In any event, they had a legal search warrant, so your comments are unwarranted.

How was the recipient of the search warrant supposed to know that they had a search warrant if they didn't show it before trying to enter the home?

[disorderlyvision]

What? They had the search warrant, which is in the confines of the Constitution. They had reason to suspect these persons were armed, so they aren't going to knock and announce who they are, which creates additional unnecessary risk to both Officer and person being served.

Blind cop hatred is as bad as those who have blind faith in the Government.

You should really reflect on your statement.

(Just as an aside: I don't think the police should be in the business of restricting our 2nd amendment, nor our personal liberty, but most people who traffic in drugs and weapons usually have crimes outside of those two area's which I think should be legalized) In any event, they had a legal search warrant, so your comments are unwarranted.


Kick in my door unannounced and see what happens;)

[pcosmar]

What? They had the search warrant,

Yeah right,
These cops had a search warrant too.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/10374909/detail.html
And read the rest of the story.
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/51151/


Still, Smith, Junnier and the other officer, Arthur Tesler, according to the state's case, ran with the information. They fabricated all the right answers to persuade a magistrate to give them a no-knock search warrant.

By 6 p.m., they had the legal document they needed to break into Kathryn Johnston's house, and within 40 minutes they were prying off the burglar bars and using a ram to burst through the elderly woman's front door. It took about two minutes to get inside, which gave Johnston time to retrieve her rusty .38 revolver.

[Dr.3D]

Kick in my door unannounced and see what happens;)

Heck, kick it in even after announcing yourself and see what happens. Anybody can say they are the police.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

So since they have a legal search warrant, they should just go around breaking down doors? It's one thing to search and another to break into someones home.

If they are so worried about the person having a gun, then maybe they should take the time to pick him up off of the street instead of breaking into his home.

There would always be plenty of time to search his home after he was being held.

If it was approved by the Judge, then yes they are within the confines of the law. I can't speak for the Judge, but due to the possibility of weapons in the home, that was most likely his primary reasoning for the allowance of not knocking. The last of anyone's worries is a broken door when lives are at stake. This isn't to say that everytime the situation is nullified, but it mitigates the risk significantly. You are also not "breaking" into their home because you have a search warrant and therefore cannot be a B&E.

If you knew you were going to be arrested/searched, and the police knocked then announced their presence, what would most (Violent I'm assuming due to what sounds like gang related) violent criminals do? Sit there and open the door for you?

For your point about picking him up off the streets...so, you are suggesting that they have police officer's canvassing and spying on everyone who they get a search warrant for, to avoid...breaking down a door that is easily replaced? Seems like a harsh and more obtrusive measure than to actually make sure the police have the correct address. Also, once you "pick them up" off the street, you have to arrest them. On what evidence are they going to arrest him? That's the whole purpose of the search warrant....

Again, it's my belief that drugs and all weapons should be fully legal, but these Officer's had a legal search warrant ordered by the local Judge, presumably on a basis of gang related activity which again, impedes on other's personal liberties. So, no, no one should be condemning the officer's and especially saying "serves them right." To the person who made that comment, you should be disgusted with yourself. You're picking your battles where there is no cause for it. When they illegaly violate your 4th amendment using the Patriot Act, then you have a case.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Yeah right,
These cops had a search warrant too.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/10374909/detail.html
And read the rest of the story.
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/51151/


Well, I didn't read the whole story, because no link was posted with the OP, merely what was shown.

[JeNNiF00F00]

Anyone breaking into a home unannounced deserves to get shot in the face.

[disorderlyvision]

no one should be condemning the officer's and especially saying "serves them right." To the person who made that comment, you should be disgusted with yourself. You're picking your battles where there is no cause for it. When they illegaly violate your 4th amendment using the Patriot Act, then you have a case.

the patriot act is a law. makes it legal, so how can they illegally violate your 4th amendment rights according to your logic?

And no I am not disgusted with my statement. I stand by it. they got what they deserved. like I said, kick in my door unannounced ad see what happens.

you should be digusted with yourself.

[Dr.3D]

If it was approved by the Judge, then yes they are within the confines of the law. I can't speak for the Judge, but due to the possibility of weapons in the home, that was most likely his primary reasoning for the allowance of not knocking. The last of anyone's worries is a broken door when lives are at stake. This isn't to say that everytime the situation is nullified, but it mitigates the risk significantly. You are also not "breaking" into their home because you have a search warrant and therefore cannot be a B&E.

If you knew you were going to be arrested/searched, and the police knocked then announced their presence, what would most (Violent I'm assuming due to what sounds like gang related) violent criminals do? Sit there and open the door for you?

For your point about picking him up off the streets...so, you are suggesting that they have police officer's canvassing and spying on everyone who they get a search warrant for, to avoid...breaking down a door that is easily replaced? Seems like a harsh and more obtrusive measure than to actually make sure the police have the correct address. Also, once you "pick them up" off the street, you have to arrest them. On what evidence are they going to arrest him? That's the whole purpose of the search warrant....

Again, it's my belief that drugs and all weapons should be fully legal, but these Officer's had a legal search warrant ordered by the local Judge, presumably on a basis of gang related activity which again, impedes on other's personal liberties. So, no, no one should be condemning the officer's and especially saying "serves them right." To the person who made that comment, you should be disgusted with yourself. You're picking your battles where there is no cause for it. When they illegaly violate your 4th amendment using the Patriot Act, then you have a case.

Not everyone, just those who they would consider armed and dangerous. Sure would have worked a lot better for the David Koresh people wouldn't it?

The police can hold someone for 24 hours without arresting them for anything.
After they have searched his home, they would then be able to arrest him if they actually found what they were supposedly looking for.

[erowe1]

What? They had the search warrant, which is in the confines of the Constitution. They had reason to suspect these persons were armed, so they aren't going to knock and announce who they are, which creates additional unnecessary risk to both Officer and person being served.

Blind cop hatred is as bad as those who have blind faith in the Government.

You should really reflect on your statement.

(Just as an aside: I don't think the police should be in the business of restricting our 2nd amendment, nor our personal liberty, but most people who traffic in drugs and weapons usually have crimes outside of those two area's which I think should be legalized) In any event, they had a legal search warrant, so your comments are unwarranted.

If the suspect knew he was shooting cops who had a warrant, then I have some sympathy for what you're saying (and for all I know, maybe he did know that). But if he was just shooting a bunch of people breaking into his house with guns, then what else should he have done? He was in the right. I don't see how the fact that they were secretly cops with a warrant changes that. They put themselves in a situation where getting shot by someone who would not reasonably be charged with a crime for doing so was a very real possibility.

[pcosmar]

Well, I didn't read the whole story, because no link was posted with the OP, merely what was shown.

The whole story will not be printed or known.
Our "legal" system is so corrupt at this point that I am left with nothing but contempt. I hide that when I must, just to deal with them.
Having a warrant does not impress me. it is too easy to get a warrant for little or no reason. Add to that, the "war on drugs" is a massive failure and I distrust any that would accept the badge or job.
Sheriff Mack and a FEW others are not enough to change my opinion of the vast majority of LE.
I truly wish that was not so.

[Soca Taliban]

No sympathy........so far as the person inside the house knows, his life could be at stake.

[1000-points-of-fright]

What? They had the search warrant, which is in the confines of the Constitution. They had reason to suspect these persons were armed, so they aren't going to knock and announce who they are, which creates additional unnecessary risk to both Officer and person being served.

Blind cop hatred is as bad as those who have blind faith in the Government.

You should really reflect on your statement.

(Just as an aside: I don't think the police should be in the business of restricting our 2nd amendment, nor our personal liberty, but most people who traffic in drugs and weapons usually have crimes outside of those two area's which I think should be legalized) In any event, they had a legal search warrant, so your comments are unwarranted.

It doesn't matter if they had a search warrant and it has nothing to do with hating cops, although there are some that do. The problem is with no-knock warrants. So you have a warrant, big deal. Mistakes are made. What if there's a typo on the warrant and they go to the wrong house? What if they suspected the wrong guy to begin with? A law-abiding citizen sees armed intruders busting down his door and opens fire. The cops return fire. Now you have injury and possibly death all because the cops didn't knock and identify themselves first.

If you don't want to give the suspect advance warning, just wait for him to leave the house and apprehend him.

[JCrafts]

Cops had it coming.

[Pennsylvania]

Sheriff Mack and a FEW others are not enough to change my opinion of the vast majority of LE.

lol I misinterpreted the LE part at first

[pcosmar]

It doesn't matter if they had a search warrant and it has nothing to do with hating cops, although there are some that do. The problem is with no-knock warrants. So you have a warrant, big deal. Mistakes are made. What if there's a typo on the warrant and they go to the wrong house? What if they suspected the wrong guy to begin with? A law-abiding citizen sees armed intruders busting down his door and opens fire. The cops return fire. Now you have injury and possibly death all because the cops didn't knock and identify themselves first.

If you don't want to give the suspect advance warning, just wait for him to leave the house and apprehend him.

This, x10

No Knock entry is a tactically stupid thing to do.

[KAYA]

serves em right
Tell that to the wives and children of these officers. I agree that it was a bad move but come on.

[disorderlyvision]

Tell that to the wives and children of these officers. I agree that it was a bad move but come on.

well, if they ask me personally, I will. I am not going to lie to them. Their husband/father took a high risk job and on top of that they kicked in someone's door without announcing who they were or without serving the warrant first. They should have expected something like this would happen as part of the job he voluntarily signed up for. I am sure the life insurance will help mend their wounds.

I don't mean to sound heartless but come on. two people have called me out on this statement. everyone else that has posted in this thread sees the absurdity of no-knock warrants.

this isn't the first nor will it be the last time this happens. it is the risk they take we they do stupid shit like kick in somones door

[Rael]

Tell that to the wives and children of these officers. I agree that it was a bad move but come on.

It's unfortunate, but they don't deserve any more sympathy than the families of criminals who get shot trying to break into your house. The cops should have chose a profession that does not involve violating others rights.

If you plant shitseeds, you get shitweeds.

[Acala]

Boo-hoo. No-knock warrants are a terror tactic designed to frighten, intimidate, and confuse citizens. The more cops who get shot kicking down doors, the more I like it because if enough of them get shot doing that, they will stop doing it. As with most erosion of the 4th amendment, no-knock warrants really got popular during the drug war supposedly to keep perps from destroying the evidence. Of course in REAL crimes, that is not a problem. People don't flush guns or stolen property down the toilet. But now the cops, with their para-military weapons and tactics, LOVE to smash down doors, tear up houses, and terrorize people. Gives em a woody. F&^K em.

Don't want to get shot? Try being a human being instead of a thug.

[Arklatex]

How was the recipient of the search warrant supposed to know that they had a search warrant if they didn't show it before trying to enter the home?

This.

Break into someone's home unannounced you're just asking to get shot at.

[Reason]

maybe some day cops will learn how to knock on the door.

qft

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[Pericles]

I would point out that everything the Nazis did to the Jews was legal under German laws at the time.

No knock warrants used to be justified as (A) necessary to prevent destruction of evidence and (B) enhance the safety of the police officers serving the warrant, which leads me to ask:

(A) some evidence would already have to exist if true probable cause existed to obtain the warrant

(B) it would seem that announce via PA system or phone call could accomplish the task at less risk to the police

BTW, no individual can have a firearm in NJ without permit, waiting period, no "assault weapons", etc. - how is that working out for them?

[devil21]

This, x10

No Knock entry is a tactically stupid thing to do.

But how else would they get to dress up in their taxpayer funded military gear and play with their expensive Homeland Security provided toys? Knocking on doors and arresting suspects outside is just so boring.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[LibForestPaul]

The whole story will not be printed or known.
Our "legal" system is so corrupt at this point that I am left with nothing but contempt. I hide that when I must, just to deal with them.
Having a warrant does not impress me. it is too easy to get a warrant for little or no reason. Add to that, the "war on drugs" is a massive failure and I distrust any that would accept the badge or job.
Sheriff Mack and a FEW others are not enough to change my opinion of the vast majority of LE.
I truly wish that was not so.

http://atlanta.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel08/at103008a.htm

[pcosmar]

http://atlanta.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel08/at103008a.htm

Yeah, I know. Disgusting isn't it.
The judge that signed the warrant should be held accountable. As should the supervisors and commanders of this unit. And anyone in the department that has ever known of this kind of activity.

Seriously disgusting, :mad:

[Uriel999]

Tried to find pity...nope no pity found. These no knock raids are just bad news all around. If somebody busts in my doors at 3am my adrenaline will be pumping I probably wont even hear them over my 12 gauge firing repeatedly without ear protection of any sorts. KNOCK ON THE FUCKING DOOR.

[teamrican1]

Doesn't not knocking give the alleged criminals a defense in court though?


No. Not only that, it doesn't give innocent people a defense in court. That's right. If the cops screw up, and break down the wrong door in the middle of the night, and an innocent citizen shoots and kills what he assumes is an intruder, he will find himself charged with murder! Google the heartbreaking stories of Corey Maye and Ryan Fredrick. If their stories don't turn you in to rabid cop and government haters, then nothing will.