Is autocratic capitalism superior to liberty?

[Light]

With the growth of China and Russia, which are both totalitarian autocratic capitalist nations, and the decline in the Western nations, has autocratic capitalism proven itself superior to nations that allow one to elect their representatives, criticize the government, and have civil liberties?

Here is an article that explains more about this:
http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-democracy-a-flickering-star-1045

In terms of human ideals and rights I would say liberty is infinitely superior to autocratic capitalism, however, in terms of economics, I am not sure.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

America hasn't been a Capitalist nation since the late 1800s. America, and the West are all Corporatist Fascist nations. Yeah, Government spending at 45%+ of GDP is really Capitalism..../rollseyes.

[hugolp]

You mean the western nations are not autocratic?

[canadian4ronpaul]

well...to me liberty is about more than just material wealth. its not just the money its the ability to say and think what you wish, and for no other person/political institution to hold power or sway over your decisions, and to be able to be the pilot of my own life. if that means i make a bit less than a peon in china, so be it.

that being said, i live in russia right now. believe me, this country is not some "rising star". this country has ALOT of problems, notable examples being human trafficking, corruption, and unfree press. st petersburg just agreed to build a massive gazprom tower that will effectively destroy the skyline of the city, remove it from the UNESCO hertiage list, and pave the way for more skyscrapers. it is breaking the threshold so to speak. almost every single person in this city is completely against it, but when they organize to protest it...goons literally beat the shit out of them to shut them up, and the administration mocks them and tells them "you can protest in the big lobby of the new building once it is finished".

like....what the fuck is that?

also, i agree with comments above, we in the west are hardly liberated free peoples, economically speaking at least. we are sliding to the left while china and russia head the other way.

[YumYum]

With the growth of China and Russia, which are both totalitarian autocratic capitalist nations, and the decline in the Western nations, has autocratic capitalism proven itself superior to nations that allow one to elect their representatives, criticize the government, and have civil liberties?

Here is an article that explains more about this:
http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-democracy-a-flickering-star-1045

In terms of human ideals and rights I would say liberty is infinitely superior to autocratic capitalism, however, in terms of economics, I am not sure.

China is the wave of the future. Totalitarian government with free market utopia. Our country has failed because officials are elected instead of appointed. Look at our Supreme Court. The justices are appointed; not elected. And you wouldn't dare try to bribe a Supreme Court justice, because you would go to prison. But it is all right to bribe our Congress and our President, since they were elected. And if China is so horrible, why do free market practioners do business with them?

[yokna7]

Well it depends on your definition of "superior" in regards to the question. China is economically superior to the US, but at what cost? - The cost of liberty, which is priceless. I want no part of it.

[legion]

I think we will eventually find out that China's economy is much like a pinata with no candy inside.

The US still produces more industrial goods measured in currency than China.

You see, the US produces the Capital goods that the chinese use to make their cheap consumer crap. Half of our yearly trillion dollars of exports are in aircraft, computers, electric power machinery, office machines, telecommunications equipment.

11% of the worlds chemicals market is us. You wouldn't know it because these highly efficient operations only require a handful of very skilled people to run.

[fisharmor]

Yeah, even Buchannan said what yokna7 brings up....


In China and Russia, the greatest of world powers after the United States, people seem to value freedom of speech, religion or the press far less than they do a rising prosperity and national pride and power. And they seem to have little moral concern about crushing national minorities.

The point of this article seems to be that we've seen all of this before, starting about 100 years ago.
These are features of autocratic capitalism. They are part of the package.

One thing that makes the liberty movement so important is that we have the opportunity to point out that the fascist/corporatist capitalism we currently practice has its own features that come with the package. We also have the opportunity to renew discussion of laissez-faire capitalism, and how to get back to it.

[krazy kaju]

Russia's and China's poverty rates are far above the US's and both have living standards far below the US's. The fact of the matter is that Russia's and China's growth today is not much different from their growth a quarter century ago, when economists like Paul Samuelson believed that the USSR would soon overtake the US.

[YumYum]

Russia's and China's poverty rates are far above the US's and both have living standards far below the US's. The fact of the matter is that Russia's and China's growth today is not much different from their growth a quarter century ago, when economists like Paul Samuelson believed that the USSR would soon overtake the US.

According to billionaire Jim Rodgers the U.S. is going under. (He lives in Singapore) According to Ron Paul and Peter Schiff the U.S. is going under if it doesn't change its course of action, and we haven't and we won't. Putin had every right to nationalize Russia's oil. That oil belongs to the people, and Putin got rid of Russia's national debt and has made many reforms. There are more billionaires in Moscow than any other city in the world. I have a Russian friend at my University that is a foreign exchange student and he speaks perfect English. I asked him would he ever consider moving to the U.S.? "Hell no", he replied. "Why", I asked. "Because, your country is too dangerous." "Besides" he said, a person can make much more money in Moscow than you can here in the U.S." For me that was an eye-opener. I think China has done remarkable in the last thirty years, and you will see a lot of third world countries model themselves after China and will pass the U.S. up economically.

[legion]

I have a Russian friend at my University that is a foreign exchange student and he speaks perfect English. I asked him would he ever consider moving to the U.S.? "Hell no", he replied. "Why", I asked. "Because, your country is too dangerous." "Besides" he said, a person can make much more money in Moscow than you can here in the U.S."

Ask your friend when his visa expires.

He's just saying that because he knows he can't stay.

Yes, a person can make a lot of money in Russia; however, then Russia becomes a lot more dangerous for that person than the US even in its worst parts at the worst times.

The US isn't dangerous.

[Light]

Do any other forum posters here have anything else to say on this matter?

[YumYum]

Ask your friend when his visa expires.

He's just saying that because he knows he can't stay.

Yes, a person can make a lot of money in Russia; however, then Russia becomes a lot more dangerous for that person than the US even in its worst parts at the worst times.

The US isn't dangerous.

: "The US isn't dangerous."

You are kidding, aren't you? You need to go visit 18th street in Los Angeles. I agree with Rush Limbaugh on one point he made: we should have sent our troops into East Los Angeles instead of Bosnia.

My friend is a 4.00 (GPA) and could easily stay here and work. This guy is going somewhere, and I believe he is telling it the way it is. Have you been to Moscow? Why do Americans bitch about our country and how fucked up it is and then scream that it is the greatest country on Earth? Talk about a theme and contradiction.

[canadian4ronpaul]

: "The US isn't dangerous."

You are kidding, aren't you? You need to go visit 18th street in Los Angeles. I agree with Rush Limbaugh on one point he made: we should have sent our troops into East Los Angeles instead of Bosnia.

My friend is a 4.00 (GPA) and could easily stay here and work. This guy is going somewhere, and I believe he is telling it the way it is. Have you been to Moscow? Why do Americans bitch about our country and how fucked up it is and then scream that it is the greatest country on Earth? Talk about a theme and contradiction.

life in russia is fantastic for about .02% of the population. the rest live like shit. russians also tend to be extremely proud of their country...i woudlnt trust everything your friend says...its no dream world over here.

[legion]

: "The US isn't dangerous."

You are kidding, aren't you? You need to go visit 18th street in Los Angeles. I agree with Rush Limbaugh on one point he made: we should have sent our troops into East Los Angeles instead of Bosnia.

My friend is a 4.00 (GPA) and could easily stay here and work. This guy is going somewhere, and I believe he is telling it the way it is. Have you been to Moscow? Why do Americans bitch about our country and how fucked up it is and then scream that it is the greatest country on Earth? Talk about a theme and contradiction.


los angeles? are you kidding? no way a place where nobody walks is a good example of dangerous...

try memphis and parts of arkansas, east saint louis or anacostia washington dc

and even then those places aren't that dangerous

[Conza88]

America hasn't been a Capitalist nation since the late 1800s. America, and the West are all Corporatist Fascist nations. Yeah, Government spending at 45%+ of GDP is really Capitalism..../rollseyes.

Sir, I like that cut of your jib.

[Lisle16]

Liberty and capitalism are natural partners. It's when one group seizes control of the market that problems arise.

[Gaius1981]

There are no individual rights in China--people are just expendable cogs in the machine that drives the Communist Party.

YouTube - Property Seizure Rampant in China's Hangzhou (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-oHyeo3q6c)

YouTube - Chinese Farmers Outraged at Land Grab Bullying Scandal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHl6fsYLxPg)

I strongly encourage everyone to watch the entire Tank Man documentary on YouTube.

YouTube - The Tank Man 1/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB70mWXrzEE)