Tucson schools create race-based system of discipline

[bobbyw24]

Tucson schools create race-based system of discipline

The board is calling for a two-tiered form of student discipline. One for Black and Hispanic students; one for everyone else.

With the goal of creating a "restorative school culture and climate" that conveys a "sense of belonging to all students," the board is insisting that its schools reduce its suspensions and/or expulsions of minority students to the point that the data reflect "no ethnic/racial disparities."

From the section of the 52-page plan titled "Restorative School Culture and Climate," subhead, "Discipline":

"School data that show disparities in suspension/expulsion rates will be examined in detail for root causes. Special attention will be dedicated to data regarding African-American and Hispanic students."

The board approved creating an "Equity Team" that will oversee the plan to ensure "a commitment to social justice for all students."

The happy-face edu-speak notwithstanding, what the Tucson Unified School District board of governors has approved this summer is a race-based system of discipline.

Offenses by students will be judged, and penalties meted out, depending on the student's hue.

Certainly, from the point of view of a public-school administrator, such a policy is beyond insane.

TUSD principals and disciplinarians (assuming such creatures still exist) are being asked to set two standards of behavior for their students.

Some behavior will be met with strict penalties; some will not. It all depends on the color of the student's skin.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/2009/09/19/20090919maceachern0920.html

[Dr.3D]

Wow, it's a good thing they are not considering the content of character of those students when dishing out penalties.

They sure wouldn't want not to be called racist. :rolleyes:

[erowe1]

How about they stop grouping students into classifications, such as "black" and "hispanic" at all. Then ethnic/racial disparities will disappear instantly because there will be no such groups recognized by the school system which could be compared to one another.

I'd like to know what objective method they think they have now to define who qualifies as "black" and "hispanic" anyway.

[Original_Intent]

What they should do is if they are reviewing a case for discipline they should not give the students name (because that can give away racial background) and they should not bring up race. The people reviewing the case should just be given the facts of what happened and they should make a decision of appropriate action WITH NO INFORMATION regarding the race of the student under discussion. Then there would be no question of racial bias.

Instead they are trying to manipulate outcomes to meet their desired ends - typical of our education system putting the cart in front of the horse. They don't care about true impartiality, they care about getting the results that they think they should get.

[zach]

Fuck this. Continue your "Us vs. Them" and you will students hating each other even more than they do now. Continue this, and you will teach them that we are not equal. Continue this, and we will never rise to end tyranny. Continue this, and we will never be collectively able to see past superficial issues.

[IPSecure]

http://www.fancast.com/blogs/wp-content/post_images/Blog-Steve-Martin-The-Jerk.jpg
"I was born a poor black child"

[bobbyw24]

What Really Divides Us?

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

Yet it is the federal government more than anything else that divides us along race, class, religion, and gender lines. The federal government, through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails in our society. This government "benevolence" crowds out genuine goodwill between men by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. Americans know that factors other than merit in the free market often play a part in the success of some, and this leads to resentment and hostility between us.

Still, the left argues that stringent federal laws are needed to combat racism, always implying of course that southern states are full of bigoted rednecks who would oppress minorities if not for the watchful eye of Washington. They ignore, however, the incredible divisiveness created by their collectivist big-government policies.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans only as members of groups and never as individuals. Racists believe that all individual who share superficial physical characteristics are alike; as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their intense focus on race is inherently racist, because it views individuals only as members of racial groups.

Conservatives and libertarians should fight back and challenge the myth that collectivist liberals care more about racism. Modern liberalism, however well intentioned, is a byproduct of the same collectivist thinking that characterizes racism. The continued insistence on group thinking only inflames racial tensions.

The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity. In a free market, businesses that discriminate lose customers, goodwill, and valuable employees – while rational businesses flourish by choosing the most qualified employees and selling to all willing buyers. More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct what is essentially a sin of the heart, we should understand that reducing racism requires a shift from group thinking to an emphasis on individualism.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul68.html

[SelfTaught]

So what does this mean?

It means that Tuscon is purposely setting up a racist school punishment system. A non-racist system would be one that holds everyone, regardless of skin color, to the same standard.

I wonder what this will look like. Will it be a black kid charged with murder gets two days suspension, white kid talks back to teacher gets expelled?

[Original_Intent]

I wonder what this will look like. Will it be a black kid charged with murder gets two days suspension, white kid talks back to teacher gets expelled?

It obviously won't reach that point, but it seems like it will certainly lead to some kids feeling they can do anything without repurcussion and others knowing that if they retaliate or initiate problems they will be held to a stricter standard. So I definitely think this leads to worse behavior for the "protected" students.

Nothing to do with race, it is human nature.

[Elwar]

http://static.open.salon.com/files/thatsracistgm751224856460.gif


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:JJB5aKyI96cH1M:http://bradley.chattablogs.com/segregation%2520drinking%2520fountain.JPG

[SelfTaught]

It obviously won't reach that point, but it seems like it will certainly lead to some kids feeling they can do anything without repurcussion and others knowing that if they retaliate or initiate problems they will be held to a stricter standard. So I definitely think this leads to worse behavior for the "protected" students.

Nothing to do with race, it is human nature.

Yeah, I was exaggerating. But this does have to do with race, because that is what the article stated. Racial groups will have their own system of punishment.

And what type of message does this send to all the little innocent white girls?

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/goclaygo/scaryblackdude.jpg

Sorry, exaggerating again.:D

[sevin]

This is fucking crazy!

All this will do is make white kids resent minorities and now even more of them will grow up to be racists.

I am so sick of seeing people who claim to be all about racial equality going out and making things worse. :mad:

[RM918]

I haven't read the article, but I can only wonder whether the white kids get the punishment and the black kids get off light. Because if it was the other way around, these teachers would be at the gallows on the evening news.

[specsaregood]

All this will do is make white kids resent minorities and now even more of them will grow up to be racists.


That isn't all it will do. It will also end up making the school even less of an educational atmosphere or even more dangerous. As they will be letting minority students get away with bad behavior that would have previously gotten them suspended/expelled. Either that or they will have to expell white students for P.D.A. or chewing gum. No other way for it to "even out".

It is obviously meant for statistical purposes.

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

I love Big Brother.

[catdd]

Sucks.

[Bruno]

How about they stop grouping students into classifications, such as "black" and "hispanic" at all. Then ethnic/racial disparities will disappear instantly because there will be no such groups recognized by the school system which could be compared to one another.

I'd like to know what objective method they think they have now to define who qualifies as "black" and "hispanic" anyway.

Stop making sense please, there will be none of that in the public school system. :rolleyes:

[TGGRV]

This is nothing new.

White is the new black.
Tread all over us.

Maybe after a decade of oppression we can start a TV channel called WET (White Entertainment Television) and burn down some suburbs or something. Maybe us white folks will be able to get some government assistance, food stamps, some college loans, scholarships, community centers, political action groups, and a job just because we are oppressed white people. We can all move to the same neighborhoods and talk about the "white community" openly for once. This is gonna be awesome because after the decade of oppression we won't be called racist anymore if we have these things. It's just a waiting game.

The world will be ours once again, we just have to survive the war on the white people in the mean time.
I thought I'm the only one feeling that. It's a sucky time to be a White man. I'm glad I'm just White on this one. :D


This is fucking crazy!

All this will do is make white kids resent minorities and now even more of them will grow up to be racists.

I am so sick of seeing people who claim to be all about racial equality going out and making things worse. :mad:
I don't resent minorities. I resent them getting away with shit. If 40% of Black women would get raped by White people, it would be an outrage. In 2005, 40% or so of White women got raped by Black men. And Blacks are 6 times less than White people so the probability of a White woman getting raped by a Black than a White is a lot bigger. And the interracial rape/crime issue is created exactly by this mentality, it isn't because those men were Black. This ideology leads to horrible results.

Oh, and to those who wonder if White people are the ones getting away with the lighter punishments. Don't worry, it's not White people. It's like the affirmative action of getting away with shit in schools.

A Conversation About Race (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1084394769627714346&hl=en#)
I know I posted this before. :D

[specsaregood]

If 40% of Black women would get raped by White people, it would be an outrage. In 2005, 40% or so of White women got raped by Black men. And Blacks are 6 times less than White people so the probability of a White woman getting raped by a Black than a White is a lot bigger. And the interracial rape/crime issue is created exactly by this mentality, it isn't because those men were Black. This ideology leads to horrible results.


See obviously we just need to charge them with a lesser crime to bring those statistics into balance.

[erowe1]

In 2005, 40% or so of White women got raped by Black men.

That is an utterly ridiculous claim. In 2005 only a small fraction of 1% of all women got raped at all, by any man of any color.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html

[RM918]

That is an utterly ridiculous claim. In 2005 only a small fraction of 1% of all women got raped at all, by any man of any color.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html

I'm hoping she means of reported rapes, otherwise that claim is just another '1 in 4' feminist classic.

[specsaregood]

I'm hoping she means of reported rapes

Poorly worded; but I thought it was obvious that was what she meant.

[RM918]

Poorly worded; but I thought it was obvious that was what she meant.

As did I, but I did have to give it a moment.

[Bruno]

From the Tucson School District:

II. Discipline
A. Purpose
TUSD will administer discipline in a fair and equitable manner, striving for no ethnic/racial
disparities.
B. Background
TUSD recognizes that there are ethnic/racial disparities in student discipline actions (see
Appendix E.1 and E.2 for suspension data).
C. Action Plan
Beginning in 2009–10, with annual review for continued improvement:
1. As appropriate, the Department of Student Equity will interact with each school to
review suspension data (in-school and out-of-school). School data that show disparities
in suspension/expulsion rates will be examined in detail for root causes. Special
attention will be dedicated to data regarding African American and Hispanic students.
2. The assistant superintendent and director, or both, will receive monthly
suspension/expulsion data and will confer with the school about action steps to be taken
to address disparities.
26
3.The Equity Team will ensure that disciplinary policies focus on improving students’
future behavior, rather than inflicting punishment, and that they represent a commitment
to social justice for all students.
Goal 1
To change the punitive nature of TUSD discipline policies and practices.
1. Background
Students who are suspended lose learning time. The goal is to shift from a culture of punishment
to one of discipline that focuses on teaching students how to behave responsibly when
confronted with conflicts and to learn appropriate problem-solving strategies that will help them
become responsible and caring adults.
2. Action Plan
Beginning in 2009–10, with annual review for continued improvement:
a. Teachers, administrators and staff will be trained in establishing meaningful and
authentic relationships with students.
b. Students will be surveyed each semester to gauge student perceptions about teacherstudent
interactions. Staff will be surveyed to gauge effectiveness of “Capturing Kids
Hearts,” which is being implemented at Hohokam, Valencia, Wakefield, and Maxwell
Middle Schools.
c. The DSE will work in partnership with administrators and teachers to design,
implement, and evaluate protocols that minimize referrals and suspensions, especially
those of African American and Hispanic students.
d. The DSE will work with schools to ensure that alleged race and racism issues are
resolved through a constructive and justice-based orientation.
e. Administrators and staff will be provided training on conducting accountability
conferences with misbehaving students.
f. The DSE will provide professional development support and training to schools
regarding bullying, so that school personnel are able to identify and minimize bullying
among students.
3. Expected Outcome
*A decrease in student discipline referrals in school year 2009–2010 and thereafter, especially
with regard to African American and Hispanic students.
Goal 2
The district will reduce the disproportionate number of suspensions of African American and
Hispanic students.
1. Background
Factors that contribute to reducing students’ suspensions include positive adult relationships with
students, restorative practices, student-centered learning environments, and school-community
networks that support student and family.
2. Action Plan
Beginning in 2009–10 with annual review for continued improvement:
a. Sites with racially/ethnically disproportionate or excessive student disciplinary
events will have as part of their comprehensive school improvement plan (or plan
to develop a First Choice school) strategies to address student management. Sites
will be directed to use restorative practices or a comparable model.
b. Training in restorative practices will be provided to school administrators
beginning in the second semester of 2008–2009 and continuing through the first
semester of 2009–2010 and with annual review for continued improvement.
c. DSE will offer professional development training to school staff on restorative
practices in the 2009–2010 school year and thereafter.
d. All long-term suspensions will be reviewed by the Director of Student Equity.
d. TUSD will use data reports to identify schools with unusual patterns or rates of
discipline, in order to determine the causes of these patterns and take immediate
action in collaboration with the school to correct them.
3. Expected Outcomes
• *Decline in out-of-school suspensions, both short-term and long-term, beginning in the
2009–2010 school year and thereafter especially with regard to African American and
Hispanic students.
• *Reduction in the number of students suspended more than once.
• *Increase in the number of students referred to Alternative to Suspension Programs.
Goal 3
To reduce in-school suspensions and to change the punitive nature of in-house suspension
programs.
1. Background
In-house suspension programs for too long have been places where students were sent to be
ostracized in a sterile environment. There has been little or no emphasis on character building
and restorative practices that teach students about using appropriate behavioral strategies. The
goal of the in-house suspension program should be to reintegrate students into the general
learning environment as soon as possible.

[TGGRV]

Ok, so 1% of those women got raped. Still, the proportions stay the same.

[erowe1]

Ok, so 1% of those women got raped. Still, the proportions stay the same.

More like 1/10th of 1%. And the proportions are irrelevant (and I'm guessing still totally false). What are the proportions of left handed men raping right handed women, or men with widow's peaks raping women without widow's peaks, or men whose ring fingers are longer than their index fingers raping women whose index fingers are longer than their ring fingers? Those statistics would be just as meaningful as any about "white" and "black" rapists and victims. And, in fact, they'd be more meaningful, because at least right and left handedness, etc., are objectively defined. White and black aren't.

[heavenlyboy34]

this is nothing new.

White is the new black.
Tread all over us.

Maybe after a decade of oppression we can start a tv channel called wet (white entertainment television) and burn down some suburbs or something. Maybe us white folks will be able to get some government assistance, food stamps, some college loans, scholarships, community centers, political action groups, and a job just because we are oppressed white people. We can all move to the same neighborhoods and talk about the "white community" openly for once. This is gonna be awesome because after the decade of oppression we won't be called racist anymore if we have these things. It's just a waiting game.

The world will be ours once again, we just have to survive the war on the white people in the mean time.

lolz!!! :d

[TGGRV]

More like 1/10th of 1%. And the proportions are irrelevant (and I'm guessing still totally false). What are the proportions of left handed men raping right handed women, or men with widow's peaks raping women without widow's peaks, or men whose ring fingers are longer than their index fingers raping women whose index fingers are longer than their ring fingers? Those statistics would be just as meaningful as any about "white" and "black" rapists and victims. And, in fact, they'd be more meaningful, because at least right and left handedness, etc., are objectively defined. White and black aren't.
No offense, I find the 1 in 4 statistic for example, moronic. I analyzed the data in it and saw that the sample that was chosen isn't representative for the population(actually the study didn't even refer to women in general) and there were some big systemic mistakes in the way it was both in the interpretation and in the way the questions were asked.

You think that only 2000 women got raped in a country with a population of 320 or so million people? I mean, besides the stupidity of that claim, even though I know that the system is a bit screwed in the favor of the victim, that's impossible.

And I love how you ignored what I wrote and started to ramble about shit. When there will be an ideology about left handed people acting right handed, about how right handed people are evil just because they're right handed and so on and left handed people will get away with it, then I will say your analogy makes sense. Now go back and read my whole post. I never claimed that Blacks have a higher incidence in all crime rates(and way higher in the interracial crime rates) because of the color of their skin. I decried the ideology a lot of them adhere to.

Now, maybe you will stop acting like blacks are color blind and above racism, like you were taught to be and start analyzing some societal trends. I was decrying the fact that minorities get away with racism and get privileges, while White people are shamed which leads to the said interracial crime rates. I can break it down for you if you don't get it and continue to make silly analogies that are unsound and unrelated.

[erowe1]

No offense, I find the 1 in 4 statistic for example, moronic. I analyzed the data in it and saw that the sample that was chosen isn't representative for the population(actually the study didn't even refer to women in general) and there were some big systemic mistakes in the way it was both in the interpretation and in the way the questions were asked.

You think that only 2000 women got raped in a country with a population of 320 or so million people? I mean, besides the stupidity of that claim, even though I know that the system is a bit screwed in the favor of the victim, that's impossible.

And I love how you ignored what I wrote and started to ramble about shit. When there will be an ideology about left handed people acting right handed, about how right handed people are evil just because they're right handed and so on and left handed people will get away with it, then I will say your analogy makes sense. Now go back and read my whole post. I never claimed that Blacks have a higher incidence in all crime rates(and way higher in the interracial crime rates) because of the color of their skin. I decried the ideology a lot of them adhere to.

Now, maybe you will stop acting like blacks are color blind and above racism, like you were taught to be and start analyzing some societal trends. I was decrying the fact that minorities get away with racism and get privileges, while White people are shamed which leads to the said interracial crime rates. I can break it down for you if you don't get it and continue to make silly analogies that are unsound and unrelated.

I never said anything about any 1 in 4 statistic. And I don't know where you got the # 2000 women. I just said 1/10th of 1%, which would be 160,000 women.

For the rest of your post, I can't even tell what it is I said that you're replying to. I never said anything about you saying blacks (whatever that word means) have a higher incidence of all crime rates than other people. And I can't see how you would think I acted like blacks (whatever those are) are color blind and above racism,.

So, since I have so much trouble making any sense at all out of almost everything you've said, I'll take you up on that last offer. Yes, please do break it down for me. No wait, on second thought, don't bother.

[Freedom 4 all]

Okay well it seems that the administration is clearly dumber than a bag full of rocks. A concept any thinking person with his eye on politics should be fairly familiar by now.

[Acala]

Yet another reason why government should not be involved in education.

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

I love Big Brother.

[catdd]

I'd be willing to bet the ACLU is involved with this. They are always meddling around in the school system.

[BlackTerrel]

Wow. Talk about taking an existing problem and making it worse.

[BlackTerrel]

I thought I'm the only one feeling that. It's a sucky time to be a White man. I'm glad I'm just White on this one. :D

It's not that sucky. It may not be as good as you had it 50 years ago, but you still have it pretty good. Trust me on that.


I don't resent minorities. I resent them getting away with shit. If 40% of Black women would get raped by White people, it would be an outrage. In 2005, 40% or so of White women got raped by Black men. And Blacks are 6 times less than White people so the probability of a White woman getting raped by a Black than a White is a lot bigger. And the interracial rape/crime issue is created exactly by this mentality, it isn't because those men were Black. This ideology leads to horrible results

How do minorities "get away with shit" as you claim? Are black guys who rape white women not charged?

[Vessol]

I'm joking when I say this, but sometimes I'd wish the government would ban race and ethnicity. Make it so you can't sign anything as "white" or "black" or what-ever.

[Yieu]

This school's program is incredibly racist.

[james1906]

If the black kid gets suspended for one day, and the white kid gets suspended for two days, would a white and black kid go back into the classroom at lunch on the second day?

A few other kickers: The blue eyed, blond haired kid from Argentina...white or Hispanic? The kid from from Papua New Guinea...black or other? Dominican kids....since most are of black and Hispanic descent...do they get off scot free, as opposed to the kids of Scottish descent who get the full punishment?

[legion]

my girlfriend is black

we have a race based system of punishment too

[amy31416]

my girlfriend is black

we have a race based system of punishment too

Do you need an ice-pack?

[legion]

Do you need an ice-pack?

thanks for the offer but i have a freezer full of them :(

[bunklocoempire]

Tucson schools create race-based system of discipline

The board is calling for a two-tiered form of student discipline. One for Black and Hispanic students; one for everyone else.

With the goal of creating a "restorative school culture and climate" that conveys a "sense of belonging to all students," the board is insisting that its schools reduce its suspensions and/or expulsions of minority students to the point that the data reflect "no ethnic/racial disparities."

From the section of the 52-page plan titled "Restorative School Culture and Climate," subhead, "Discipline":

"School data that show disparities in suspension/expulsion rates will be examined in detail for root causes. Special attention will be dedicated to data regarding African-American and Hispanic students."

The board approved creating an "Equity Team" that will oversee the plan to ensure "a commitment to social justice for all students."

The happy-face edu-speak notwithstanding, what the Tucson Unified School District board of governors has approved this summer is a race-based system of discipline.

Offenses by students will be judged, and penalties meted out, depending on the student's hue.

Certainly, from the point of view of a public-school administrator, such a policy is beyond insane.

TUSD principals and disciplinarians (assuming such creatures still exist) are being asked to set two standards of behavior for their students.

Some behavior will be met with strict penalties; some will not. It all depends on the color of the student's skin.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/2009/09/19/20090919maceachern0920.html

I wonder if any of the kids are bussed in. Bussed in for "equality" and then treated differently.

Bunkloco

[bunklocoempire]

http://www.fancast.com/blogs/wp-content/post_images/Blog-Steve-Martin-The-Jerk.jpg
"I was born a poor black child"


Nice! Thank you!:D

Navin aint no fool!

Bunkloco

[YumYum]

Yeah, I was exaggerating. But this does have to do with race, because that is what the article stated. Racial groups will have their own system of punishment.

And what type of message does this send to all the little innocent white girls?

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/goclaygo/scaryblackdude.jpg

Sorry, exaggerating again.:D


hehe...that's some funny shit.

[TGGRV]

erowe1, by saying people judge each other as individuals, you imply what I said. If you agree that they don't and nobody is above racism, you should have no problem with me analyzing the influence of it and how calling only one group influence things.

BlackTerrel, 5 black people raped, mutilated and lynched a white couple. No hate crime. Minorities constantly get away with both hate speech and their crimes aren't subjected to the hate crime philosophy. You also have affirmative action and get away with racism.

[bobbyw24]

Feds probe 'race-based discipline' policy
Plan said to call for different punishments for blacks, white, Hispanics
Posted: September 25, 2009
12:25 am Eastern

By Chelsea Schilling
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights is investigating an Arizona school district's newly adopted racial policy that purportedly calls for a "two-tiered form of student discipline: one for black and Hispanic students; one for everyone else," according to a newspaper columnist.

As WND reported, Arizona Republic columnist Doug MacEachern drew attention to a decision made by the Tucson Unified School District's board over the summer to adopt a "Post-Unitary Status Plan," which includes the goal of reducing suspensions and expulsions of minority students to reflect "no ethnic/racial disparities."

"TUSD principals and disciplinarians (assuming such creatures still exist) are being asked to set two standards of behavior for their students," MacEachern commented. "Some behavior will be met with strict penalties; some will not. It all depends on the color of the student's skin."

MacEachern's column quoted a section of the board's 52-page plan titled "Restorative School Culture and Climate," subhead, "Discipline."

"School data that show disparities in suspension/expulsion rates will be examined in detail for root causes," the new policy states. "Special attention will be dedicated to data regarding African-American and Hispanic students."

Arizona Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Horne blasted the discipline plan Wednesday, according to the Arizona Daily Star. He admitted he hadn't read the plan but called it "abhorrent," warning that ethnicity should never be a consideration in disciplinary decisions.

"Either students have misbehaved or they haven't," he said.

"When you issue a decree that we want to reduce the discipline of minority students, you're sending a message to teachers that if they have a student who is misbehaving and who is in a protected class, then they need to treat that student more leniently."

[torchbearer]

That is an utterly ridiculous claim. In 2005 only a small fraction of 1% of all women got raped at all, by any man of any color.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html

those are rapes that were reported.
how many rapes go unreported?

[tonesforjonesbones]

I read that nonsense..and it's meant to inflame people. It's been going on for years. Does anyone think that the idea of protecting the minority has anything to do with race? Or does it have to do with votes on issues and government political decisions etc. Tones

[TGGRV]

those are rapes that were reported.
how many rapes go unreported?
Well, about half of the victims don't report, but half of the allegations are false. Hence the number is pretty accurate.

I don't get why they don't enforce perjury laws in the case of rapes and treat this felony differently. But this is another example of a protected class - women. It disgusts me that some moronic women think that patriarchy keeps me down and I need privileges to make it.

[legion]

those are rapes that were reported.
how many rapes go unreported?

i think the white on white rape would be more common and underreported than the black on white rape, because whites are racist and most rapes are acquaintances.

[TGGRV]

i think the white on white rape would be more common and underreported than the black on white rape, because whites are racist and most rapes are acquaintances.
Plus, there are lots of financial reasons for a woman to press charges for rape - falsely. Supposing I'd have the abysmal morality to do that, I'd rather do it against a white man since the gain would be bigger.

[legion]

Well, about half of the victims don't report, but half of the allegations are false. Hence the number is pretty accurate.

I don't get why they don't enforce perjury laws in the case of rapes and treat this felony differently. But this is another example of a protected class - women. It disgusts me that some moronic women think that patriarchy keeps me down and I need privileges to make it.


Plus, there are lots of financial reasons for a woman to press charges for rape - falsely. Supposing I'd have the abysmal morality to do that, I'd rather do it against a white man since the gain would be bigger.

are you part of some anti-anti-rape lobby? i dont get these opinions. if you see the person that claims to be "TGGRV" at a meetup: watch out. they may rape you?

[Cowlesy]

The phrase that caught my eye in the original article was "Social justice".

There you have it --- directly out of the leftist handbook.

Like others have said, this will do more to divide and galvanize the students. The white kids are going to feel like the blacks/hispanics are getting special treatment, and the blacks/hispanics will take it as a sign that it's "not their fault" they act terribly, and will further justify their actions (not to mention they get off lighter).

Foolishness knows no bounds.

[tonesforjonesbones]

well the word is out now, and i guess if everyone turns up the heat they might change the rules to EQUALITY..what a concept. tones

[Dibmatic]

You think that only 2000 women got raped in a country with a population of 320 or so million people? I mean, besides the stupidity of that claim, even though I know that the system is a bit screwed in the favor of the victim, that's impossible.

The population of the US is about 306 million people and the system isn't a bit screwed in the favor of the victim, the system is screwed a lot in the favor of the woman, unless, of course, we believe that the woman is always the victim and the disparaties between the treatment of women and men aren't that great within the legal system.

When the victim is a male the system is not screwed in his favor. What does the system do to recognize and address male rape victims, for instance?

We have specifically brought up cases of rape with male perpretators and female victims and nothing else.

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361

When we accept myths as truth they often minimilize the accountability of the perpretrator. That's probably why perpretrators that "don't fit the description" are held less accountable than the groups these myths protect. People should be educated with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, no matter how ugly truth is. I'd rather know the Gruesome Truth than "sweet" lies. I agree with the person that says race, gender, name, etc. should be taken out of the equation and we should only be provided with the facts.

[TGGRV]

The population of the US is about 306 million people and the system isn't a bit screwed in the favor of the victim, the system is screwed a lot in the favor of the woman, unless, of course, we believe that the woman is always the victim and the disparaties between the treatment of women and men aren't that great within the legal system.

When the victim is a male the system is not screwed in his favor. What does the system do to recognize and address male rape victims, for instance?

We have specifically brought up cases of rape with male perpretators and female victims and nothing else.

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361

When we accept myths as truth they often minimilize the accountability of the perpretrator. That's probably why perpretrators that "don't fit the description" are held less accountable than the groups these myths protect. People should be educated with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, no matter how ugly truth is. I'd rather know the Gruesome Truth than "sweet" lies. I agree with the person that says race, gender, name, etc. should be taken out of the equation and we should only be provided with the facts.
I agree. I said victim because in the vast majority of rape cases, the victim is female. It's not domestic violence, where women do just as much.


are you part of some anti-anti-rape lobby? i dont get these opinions. if you see the person that claims to be "TGGRV" at a meetup: watch out. they may rape you?
Nope. The rest of your post doesn't make sense.

[kahless]

Allot of outrage in the comments at azrepublic for that article and rightfully so. I suspect home sales will be on the rise on Tuscon. White flight.

[Dibmatic]

I agree. I said victim because in the vast majority of rape cases, the victim is female. It's not domestic violence, where women do just as much.


Nope. The rest of your post doesn't make sense.

I know we agree but you're not supposed to admit it.

[Dibmatic]

are you part of some anti-anti-rape lobby? i dont get these opinions. if you see the person that claims to be "TGGRV" at a meetup: watch out. they may rape you?

Are you ininiuating that TGGRV would commit rape or are you asking if TGGRV would commit rape?

If the answer to either question is yes why would you insinuate or ask that question?

[Dr.3D]

i think the white on white rape would be more common and underreported than the black on white rape, because whites are racist and most rapes are acquaintances.

I seriously doubt whites are anymore racist than blacks are.

[Dibmatic]

I seriously doubt whites are anymore racist than blacks are.


Exactly, people just take the most extremely racist of whites and try to portray them as race spokespeople.

What if everyone thought black people were like Jeremiah Wright?

How many black people spoke out against his racism?

[legion]

Are you ininiuating that TGGRV would commit rape or are you asking if TGGRV would commit rape?

If the answer to either question is yes why would you insinuate or ask that question?

he seems to think that rape doesn't happen. its an odd opinion to have.

like la costra nostra at the senate hearings: organized crime doesn't exist!

[Nate]

Wow. Talk about taking an existing problem and making it worse.

Amen to that.

[Nate]

I seriously doubt whites are anymore racist than blacks are.

I've lived in both communities and from my experiences neither are as racist as the other "side" thinks they are. There are idiots in both communities that are so loud and ignorant that they make the problem seem larger than it is. Unfortunately most of those people are in the government or the MSM.

[BlackTerrel]

BlackTerrel, 5 black people raped, mutilated and lynched a white couple. No hate crime.

Well was it a hate crime? What were they charged with? I imagine these black people will now either spend a long time in jail or put to death. How is that getting away with it?


Minorities constantly get away with both hate speech

Hate speech? White people can do hate speech too... no laws against that.


and their crimes aren't subjected to the hate crime philosophy. You also have affirmative action and get away with racism.

A lot of issues obviously on your plate...something on your mind?

[Lisle16]

I've lived in both communities and from my experiences neither are as racist as the other "side" thinks they are. There are idiots in both communities that are so loud and ignorant that they make the problem seem larger than it is. Unfortunately most of those people are in the government or the MSM.

I agree with this. Most whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. get along just fine. A few bad apples spoil it for everyone.

[Bruno]

I think most of would agree that all hate crimes should be abolished. You should only be charged for the crime committed, not the feelings you had while committing it - it is absurd.

And it degrades the process for a wife, for example, who was beaten to a pulp by her husband her hated her, while a random stranger perpetrating a 'hate crime' gets a tougher sentence than the a$$hole husband does.

[BlackTerrel]

I think most of would agree that all hate crimes should be abolished. You should only be charged for the crime committed, not the feelings you had while committing it - it is absurd.

Maybe. But I don't think it's that important but I can see the logic in it.

We had different degrees of crimes even before "hate crime legislation".

Let's talk about murder....each case is "more evil" and deserves a harsher punishment.

1. I am driving my car and accidentally run someone over and kill them

2. I am at a bar, someone hits on my wife and grabs her ass, I grab a beer bottle and hit him over the head and kill him

3. Someone is promoted over me at work... I plot and plot for a month and set up a plan to kill him, and finally do.

4. I hate white people, and kill a random white person just because of the color of his skin

Certainly 4 is worse than 3 is worse than 2 is worse than 1 isn't it? 4 is also more likely to kill again than 1 is... etc...

[YumYum]

1. I am driving my car and accidentally run someone over and kill them

2. I am at a bar, someone hits on my wife and grabs her ass, I grab a beer bottle and hit him over the head and kill him

3. Someone is promoted over me at work... I plot and plot for a month and set up a plan to kill him, and finally do.

4. I hate white people, and kill a random white person just because of the color of his skin

Certainly 4 is worse than 3 is worse than 2 is worse than 1 isn't it? 4 is also more likely to kill again than 1 is... etc...


You forgot number 5: "I hate people, and kill a random person just because."

[Danke]

Let's talk about murder....each case is "more evil" and deserves a harsher punishment.

1. I am driving my car and accidentally run someone over and kill them

2. I am at a bar, someone hits on my wife and grabs her ass, I grab a beer bottle and hit him over the head and kill him

3. Someone is promoted over me at work... I plot and plot for a month and set up a plan to kill him, and finally do.

4. I hate white people, and kill a random white person just because of the color of his skin

Certainly 4 is worse than 3 is worse than 2 is worse than 1 isn't it? 4 is also more likely to kill again than 1 is... etc...

1 & 2 were accidental deaths with degrees of negligence.

3 is premeditated, harshest punishment.

4 is murder, doesn't matter what is on your mind.

[BlackTerrel]

1 & 2 were accidental deaths with degrees of negligence.

3 is premeditated, harshest punishment.

4 is murder, doesn't matter what is on your mind.

3 and 4 are both murder but isn't 4 more evil/more likely to do it again?

I do think that committing a crime just because you hate someone for racial reasons is worse than committing the crime for another reason. For instance, if someone graffitied sponge bob square pants on my door I would be pissed... but I would be far more pissed if the y graffitied KKK on my door. Big difference in malice and intent.

[AutoDas]

4. I hate white people, and kill a random white person just because of the color of his skin

what if you kill someone out of love? is that a love crime and is less "evil"?

[TGGRV]

3 and 4 are both murder but isn't 4 more evil/more likely to do it again?

I do think that committing a crime just because you hate someone for racial reasons is worse than committing the crime for another reason. For instance, if someone graffitied sponge bob square pants on my door I would be pissed... but I would be far more pissed if the y graffitied KKK on my door. Big difference in malice and intent.
It is the same thing. I never heard someone murdered someone else out of love. All crimes are crimes of hate. And racism, sexism and so on are just that. How pissed off someone is is irrelevant.

So if I get my wallet stolen by a Black person, he should get a harsher sentence because it pissed me off more than if it would have been done by a Mexican? If you want to do things like this, racism is irrelevant. You can do hate crime laws based on the last years high interracial crime rates and make harsher sentences based on that, but it's still stupid.

I also appreciate the ad-hominem, but any person who supports affirmative action is both sexist and racist. By the way, there are plenty of hate speech laws around the world against criticism against protected groups. Just look at the UN and Islam or the EU and whatever groups(there are too many for me to enumerate).

And hey, let's play your logic. How do you know the KKK graffitied your door out of hate? Or what makes you think slaves and blacks were lynched out of racism? lol

[BlackTerrel]

It is the same thing. I never heard someone murdered someone else out of love. All crimes are crimes of hate. And racism, sexism and so on are just that. How pissed off someone is is irrelevant.

We already seperate murder by premeditated and on the spot.


I also appreciate the ad-hominem, but any person who supports affirmative action is both sexist and racist. By the way, there are plenty of hate speech laws around the world against criticism against protected groups. Just look at the UN and Islam or the EU and whatever groups(there are too many for me to enumerate).

There are a lot of stupid laws in Europe about hate speech. But that's not what we're discussing.

[Dibmatic]

he seems to think that rape doesn't happen. its an odd opinion to have.

like la costra nostra at the senate hearings: organized crime doesn't exist!


That's not what I've concluded from those statements. Where is it said that rape doesn't happen?

"Half the victims don't report" tells you that they know rape happens... idealogies...



Originally Posted by TGGRV
Well, about half of the victims don't report, but half of the allegations are false. Hence the number is pretty accurate.

I don't get why they don't enforce perjury laws in the case of rapes and treat this felony differently. But this is another example of a protected class - women. It disgusts me that some moronic women think that patriarchy keeps me down and I need privileges to make it.


Originally Posted by TGGRV
Plus, there are lots of financial reasons for a woman to press charges for rape - falsely. Supposing I'd have the abysmal morality to do that, I'd rather do it against a white man since the gain would be bigger.