Add this to your "The State is No Friend of Christianity and Never Will Be" file.

[erowe1]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/world/asia/17pstan.html?_r=1

A recent example of how one of our most important allies in the War on Terror treats Christians.

[LibertyWorker]

Why should I care about tribal fighting between people about their imaginary friends?

[erowe1]

Why should I care about tribal fighting between people about their imaginary friends?

What tribal fighting and what imaginary friends are you talking about? The state of Pakistan is not a tribe, and their police are not imaginary. Neither is Christianity a tribe, nor Jesus Christ imaginary. Did you accidentally post that in the wrong thread?

[LibertyWorker]

A Christian man detained on blasphemy charges

The death of the Christian, Robert Fanish, 20, is part of a rising trend of violence against minorities in Pakistan

It follows the burning deaths of six Christians in July, and mob attacks against Christian houses and a church in March and June.

Christians are a tiny minority in Pakistan. They are barred from running for president.

A Muslim family accused him of desecrating a Koran, but his local supporters said the family claimed that he had been admiring their daughter.

Looks like same people fighting over the same old tribal stuff to me.

[erowe1]

A Christian man detained on blasphemy charges

The death of the Christian, Robert Fanish, 20, is part of a rising trend of violence against minorities in Pakistan

It follows the burning deaths of six Christians in July, and mob attacks against Christian houses and a church in March and June.

Christians are a tiny minority in Pakistan. They are barred from running for president.

A Muslim family accused him of desecrating a Koran, but his local supporters said the family claimed that he had been admiring their daughter.

Looks like same people fighting over the same old tribal stuff to me.

Oh. OK. I assumed you knew what a tribe was. But even if either Islam or Christianity were tribes, it wasn't that Muslim family who detained and killed the man, it was the police.

[LibertyWorker]

Oh. OK. I assumed you knew what a tribe was.

Religion

Tribes

Cults of death

government

All things used to divide people make them hate other people with no real foundation for that hate.

All the same in my eyes

[LibertyWorker]

Oh. OK. I assumed you knew what a tribe was. But even if either Islam or Christianity were tribes, it wasn't that Muslim family who detained and killed the man, it was the police.

Pakistan (Urdu: پاکستان Pākistān), officially the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

[erowe1]

Religion

Tribes

Cults of death

government

All things used to divide people make them hate other people with no real foundation for that hate.

All the same in my eyes

Don't forget to add supermarkets and sports teams to your list of totally unrelated things. And note that in this case, out of all those things that you include under the rubric of whatever it is you choose to call it, it was a state and not any religion, tribe, or death cult, committing the atrocity, as usual.

[erowe1]

Pakistan (Urdu: پاکستان Pākistān), officially the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Exactly. It's a state.

[LibertyWorker]

Exactly. It's a state.

It a Islamic state.

A Christian man detained on blasphemy charges.

[erowe1]

It a Islamic state.

A Christian man detained on blasphemy charges.

It doesn't matter what religion that state claims to be. As is usually the case, the actor to blame for the atrocity is the state itself, an entity that exists only for the increase of its own power, regardless of any superficial allegiances it claims to anything else. For the state of Pakistan, Islam is its servant, not its master. The state is never a friend of Christianity and never will be. Perhaps the worst states are the atheist ones. But, as this story shows, they aren't alone. And I'm convinced that this can happen here. Every tool American Christians put in Caesar's hand, ostensibly to serve their own ends (providing health care to people, fighting radical Islam, defining marriage, etc.), Caesar will eventually use against them unless they forswear allegiance to any god but him.

[LibertyEagle]

Every tool American Christians put in Caesar's hand, ostensibly to serve their own ends (providing health care to people, fighting radical Islam, defining marriage, etc.), Caesar will eventually use against them unless they forswear allegiance to any god but him.

Very well-said.

[LibertyWorker]

It doesn't matter what religion that state claims to be. As is usually the case, the actor to blame for the atrocity is the state itself, an entity that exists only for the increase of its own power, regardless of any superficial allegiances it claims to anything else. For the state of Pakistan, Islam is its servant, not its master. The state is never a friend of Christianity and never will be. Perhaps the worst states are the atheist ones. But, as this story shows, they aren't alone. And I'm convinced that this can happen here. Every tool American Christians put in Caesar's hand, ostensibly to serve their own ends (providing health care to people, fighting radical Islam, defining marriage, etc.), Caesar will eventually use against them unless they forswear allegiance to any god but him.


The man was put in jail in the first place because he slandered the Koran (he made a derogatory remark about a book)

The state was enforcing the state religion when the arrest was made for slander of the Koran.

“For the state of Pakistan, Islam is its servant, not its master.”

That’s a huge assumption on your part.

“Perhaps the worst states are the atheist ones”

Only when the state becomes the” NEW “Religion. Look at most of the totalitarian governments. The government and its leaders are treated like gods. “DEAR LEADER”

“Caesar will eventually use against them unless they forswear allegiance to any god but him”

Keep god out of the running of my government please

I don’t like the idea of my kids living under the Christian version of sharia law.

[YumYum]

: "Keep god out of the running of my government please

I don’t like the idea of my kids living under the Christian version of sharia law."

I agree. I was raised in a Judeo/Christian cult, but even though I don't believe in a personal God, I do believe in religious freedoms. What Christians don't realize is that by shoving Jesus down everybodies throats by pushing prayer in schools and demanding that the Ten Commandments be displayed in Federal government facilities they are hurting themselves. Many people in this country are not Christians, and yet respect the rights of other to worship how they choose. If Christians try to convert the whole country into becoming Christians, there will a backlash, and Christians could end up losing their freedom of worship.

[LibertyEagle]

Folks, this is not a religious debate forum. There are plenty of other forums out there, if that is what you want to do.

[erowe1]

The man was put in jail in the first place because he slandered the Koran (he made a derogatory remark about a book)

The state was enforcing the state religion when the arrest was made for slander of the Koran.

I don't know if he slandered the Koran or not. But the important point is that the entity that put him in jail, as you correctly note, is the state.


“For the state of Pakistan, Islam is its servant, not its master.”

That’s a huge assumption on your part.

So what's wrong with making correct assumptions?


“Perhaps the worst states are the atheist ones”

Only when the state becomes the” NEW “Religion. Look at most of the totalitarian governments. The government and its leaders are treated like gods. “DEAR LEADER”

The state doesn't "become" the NEW [emphasis yours] religion. The state, by virtue of being a state starts out that way. It isn't just "most of the totalitarian governments," it's all, to varying degrees.


“Caesar will eventually use against them unless they forswear allegiance to any god but him”

Keep god out of the running of my government please

I don’t like the idea of my kids living under the Christian version of sharia law.

Now you're contradicting yourself. Above you correctly claimed that it is the nature of totalitarian governments (i.e. states) to demand allegiance in the place of God. Now you request that God be kept out of government. If by "government" you mean the state, then there is no such thing. If anybody wants religious freedom, they will find that that freedom is inversely proportional to how powerful the state is.

[erowe1]

Folks, this is not a religious debate forum. There are plenty of other forums out there, if that is what you want to do.

Have the moderators determined that support for religious liberty has no place in "Grassroots Support of Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty"?

[MsDoodahs]

Nope, trying to keep it on the subject of religious freedom rather than having it go down the path of Christian/Muslim bashing.

[LibertyWorker]

Have the moderators determined that support for religious liberty has no place in "Grassroots Support of Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty"?

I’m not opposed to your religious freedoms.

I’m opposed to you voting in a government that will force me to live under your religious morals.

[erowe1]

I’m not opposed to your religious freedoms.

I’m opposed to you voting in a government that will force me to live under your religious morals.

Good, then you're opposed to democracy. So am I.